Q2 2020 Nordic American Tanker Ltd Earnings Call

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the Nordic American Tankers conference call. At this time or participants are you not listen only mode. After the speaker presentation. There wouldn't be a question answer session to ask a question. During this session you wouldn't need to press star one on your telephone keypad.

For your information the conference is being recorded.

Now I would like to handle conference over to your speaker today, Mr. heavier Hansson Chairman and CEO. Please go ahead Sir.

Thank you.

Mr. Operator, and thank you all our listeners on paper joining us we're very pleased to be together with you.

And.

I would like to just mentioned that did my remarks here.

They are.

Forward looking Selmo then about the future performance. These statements are based on our assumptions in life, though the information currently available and therefore, you should not place in June reliance on them and they said these legal comments, yeah I tell you that noted.

American tank is cautions you that that number of important factors could cause actual results to differ materially thrown dose discussed in the forward looking statements for additional information as to risks and uncertainties as well that's all the factors that could cause actual results to date.

Yes, Sir please refer.

To the press release, we have centre, which can be accessed by visiting the company's website.

And that I Miss.

Addressing you from Norway. We are a company listed on the New York Stock Exchange. One another are just a shipping companies in crude oil tankers into world.

We owe ships are traveling all around the world carrying crude oil.

And then I would like to tell you that said we.

Had we all know the highest liquidity in this Stoke.

Among all listed shipping companies.

So please said and that I noted that compared with another well known shipping company, we had double the ER and I will touch as being bought and sold every day, because everybody who buys still with us they shed easily be able to buy stock.

And they shall be able to say the stock.

We had a very strong cash position neighbor dimension.

And that we had performed.

Better than the so called the consensus.

The outreach sense there out the 17th of August.

Monday, a I believe it and today, we had defense is safe and when it comes to.

Earnings per share.

Lead.

Wed be thing that consensus by about 17% when it comes to net income we were beaten the consensus by 16% it'd be there we were beating the consensus, but 10% and EBIT by 7.3% that point I wish to emphasize.

It's all these I met those them at beaten by the performance of Nordic American tankers.

And Oh, we are now and that there is strong position.

I've been a in this space. This for quite a few years is a day since the mid <unk> 19 seventies, both in research and economics, and the energy business and I've never seen.

This company assets to be is at such a good position as it is today I'm sitting here in sand, if youre, Norway together, but some of my friends added to be has also many friends all around the world that are listening in and that they hope will participate in this.

Since we are going to ahead with these few words I would like to go onto this first item on the agenda item number one the strong financial and commercial position I'm not.

And then that connection I will address this strategy going forward.

When it comes to the strong financial and commercial position and Nike.

I will say without transformation that we are in excellent shape that is how I see it from my point of view.

Nobody knows as he indicated in my previous remarks, what the future is holding that I'm very confident on their way forward.

There is no question on that and when it comes to our strategy.

I just would like to to say the following remarks.

We had at the pace emphasis on simplicity transparency and predictability.

Our general position is two and a premise and two oh that unfold.

And I would like to address a few elements of our strategy that is quite a bit one expansion, although homogeneous fleet.

We stick to Sue is Max vessels.

And the which we are trading all over the world carry in crude oil.

Secondly, we are distribute cash flow to shareholders to a large extent and we place heavy emphasis on dividend, we had been paying dividend.

For 92 quarters, and we are going to continue on that Paul.

Yes, when asked weekend naturally the dividend will be it is there risk management question really.

On the bottom side and it has to do with the capital structure all the company.

We have a very strong balance sheet.

Which is good going forward and there.

We have also at very close customer relationships very close we do business with big oil I just go back to that.

We maintain that top quality fleet.

As reflected in the so called vesting a activities.

We have interest to lock find shareholders management and and that all interests are aligned.

We are servicing big boys.

And a short term contract.

Correct and longer contracts, we are dealing with show mode. The best companies in the world only always side.

We have at low cash breakeven.

Including Aegean a costs and we.

Leverage our industry network.

Some of US were working in at doing business in Japan, many many many years ago.

Contracting ships ordering sheds after which we have moved through large extend to Korea and not so as we all know China has become an aggressive and posted competitor in our business.

That is really my comment on item number one on the agenda.

When it comes to it which is our strong financial and commercial position.

And our strategy going forward, let me embark on a number two.

On the agenda Nordic American tankers, we expect to be a debt freight company in a few years as in the Pos.

Then we were at that tree company 10 to 15 years ago.

That said play or did that bodes very very low because when you have no debt the shareholders and management and board can run the company without any.

Quote unquote interference by the banks, we wish to be completely independent all the banks and that's been and was.

Very important.

Objective for us and it will be an objective and it's still an objective whether it will take three years from five yes.

I wouldn't comment on that or or even more but the direction. This very clear the direction is to become debt free simply because we borrowed from opinion that this benefit our shareholders who are over oneq.

Yes.

So then I will embark on the third point on the agenda, which is our customer relationship with big oil Big oil.

Hi that expression I'm talking about some of the biggest companies into where I'm talking about exxonmobils I'm talking about chatted about a British petroleum I'm talking about.

That major Chinese oil companies tight oil and others and we do a lot of business with them all over the world BP Shen Exxon set SAP.

We know not least equity no is the say Oh, the company and all right well not a biggest companies.

The international shipping.

Hi, and they are located in Salon go and own 67%, Bob I, The Norwegian government, we do business, which Avalon Oh, good friend and generally speaking.

We also do business with unit Act in the in China.

Speaking at our desire is to do business with big oil because we have experienced over the as that the oil companies are some of the best companies in the world.

They started out many many many years ago in America, and I think it wasn't Pennsylvania in 18 63, so quite a few time ago, but we had the best relationship and the best cooperation with Big oil and that this our objective.

To continue on that path.

They rely on us and we rely on them and Ah we for victories and we're working closely together with them.

And then I will go on to the question of.

Oh, sorry, Oh, a fleet competition item number for fleet composition quality of the addicting.

[noise] them question no Vestings vesting is the same as to Macbook you get in school. They always companies are looking at our fleet, they're going through in detail our fleet and gave them by rating.

And we are among the top rated the companys shipping and oil crude oil companies into where.

Our letting performance is it too and that little bit more latitude to in a half observations each day and this these letting procedures that to get objects that you know generally speaking pharma industry point of view.

Supported by our kids the oil companies International Meridian foolish consisting of about handle that fell.

All these companies located in a lot dog.

And we have that very close and constructive cooperation with okay.

[noise] abandonment recall, when we talk about our business with Big Boy.

We are a completely threads parent company.

We are listed in New York and or our annual report or recorded as 20 I believe.

Our about handle that 20 pages hurdle, then 20 pages. So everything is completely well known.

By our friendly.

Pat to test and also by our customers and by our.

Friends in the industry, we have nothing too high.

[noise] when it comes to.

And then before fleet composition.

Which is associated with the vetting, we have now 23 ships and the quality is reflected by the vesting re sense as I mentioned.

And.

We as a at about an age and age as average age of about 12 units, two and a yes or slightly less or you know in that region.

And.

We had a tender it recently two years ago on year ago.

33 ships and then we scale the fleet back a little bit. So now we're down to 23 ships and they wouldn't be surprised if we would increase the fleet again, because this is at dynamic at dynamic development.

And.

And that from our perspective.

And also for me.

So quite a large shareholder I have invested.

Quite a lot.

In this company hard to cash and.

We.

Which of course to renew our fleet in due course.

And that will be at gradual process.

And we don't announce today that we will orders shipped tomorrow and we don't tell people worked out next steps off that what ever we do dividend will be in focus and whatever we do we will do it in the best interest of share.

Holders no question and the shareholders can rely on that and in business. You know you not all the succeed but more than 50% of your decisions MSP right.

Of course, if you do things wrongly or more than 50% of the times it wed be very bad and longer term.

And so far so good.

And we wish to keep up the quality of the fleet, it's a very accurate.

In addition, we are working on and I personally supervise these things in great detail because I believe as at the top leader of this organization is my responsibility to.

Had a lot of detailed knowledge about the business I don't take puts the decisions on behalf of others that I wish to ensure that they understand all the questions associated with the business.

I would like to go.

[laughter] onto item number side.

The question of school bus.

No.

Sometime ago. This question was introduced to.

In a few years ago and we saw immediately that this was thing for us and we decided the.

Clearly and openly and I would say convincingly that scrubbers was nothing for us.

Because we are there to reduce rates, we are not there to increase risk.

So I don't need to.

Talk more about that.

Let me embark on them in this next question, which is perhaps the most important question.

Today that is called the 19 call it 90.

And I haven't with my colleagues being to China. Many many times doing a lot of business with big Chinese companies.

And we are following very closely developments in China on this business copied 19 and also in Korea.

And Japan as I mentioned to you.

And.

We have.

I would like to make it the general comment political uncertainty.

Is offered.

Uh huh.

Creating.

Could create good times for the business.

And we see very clearly there's no doubt about it that crude oil is required.

To stimulate growth and to stingy like well fab.

Many people in the world.

Poor people they like to have.

Well as fast as some of us in the West has in America and elsewhere.

They will not continue to be poor people.

And those of US who have followed the far east over.

I would say the lost 40 as.

We have seen this a question of increased when fab at a very close distance I shall not giving you a long speech on that question I could do it but this is not the right the place to do it.

But we are following that.

Kobe 19 question very closely and our main.

Challenge at this time is to ensure.

That our crews our crude they're working people on the ship on a typical suezmax. It we had about 23 crews are 24, and we are very concerned for that safety.

And we try to change crew according to schedule.

We are.

And that is a challenging situation now because this has to do with the virus and the extent to which the virus and spreading.

But we are.

Trying to the best of our at the ability to protect the crude I would say this is the most important thing that we have on the agenda.

Every day and I personally take at very active role in these processes.

Because of an important managerial principal.

I'm no good that blaming others, if something goes wrong. It is my responsibility together with my colleagues and if somebody is going to shout. They shells shout at me and my board at my colleagues.

We are not blaming others.

Let me also before we go onto Q and eight.

Let me.

Talk a little bit about the USA and China relationship.

I bet you have at the big.

Hi angle, if you wish that China that as a matter gap that's Russia.

You are familiar with.

Many of you with the mountain chains have evolved as we say in my language you holiday.

East Dubuque, Aldo about 30 to 40 to 50 million Russians.

But even for failed at least about volume.

Point 3 billion Chinese.

And I'm sure that many of you on this call you know a lot about China and I don't know very much about China, although I have been there many times and we have an excellent relationships with our business associates in China.

And.

Interestingly.

China.

The last if you look upon this in the historic perspective.

I'd now has been ruling in quotation the world for the last 2000 years, it's only the lots to handle that yes that China has not been in the driving see if you each so in the larger historical context. This is short period of time.

[music].

We.

Some people are saying.

That you know that China and.

The United States are at that point, where they are adversaries add visitors working against each other and I will not take the side or China, I will not to take that.

I doubt America, but I'm quite sure about one thing that it two countries respect each order and that I firmly believe that with all due respect so our contacts in Moscow and in Russia.

I think that China and America that are running this show.

No doubt about it that we we wish America to keep a leading rode into where we wish to do that.

We reach America to take that road and there.

It is also in the American heart to head the road that they see less that this is a little bit expenses.

For them now, but our links Nordic American you can see it to from the name Nordic American had very strong links in America.

Only agenda here, we mentioned that that tree company and we are now.

Hello, Liv one big etcetera that is in Dallas, Texas and that we don't have added.

Mortgage debt with scan in Asian Banks, only America, and we are dealing with a New York stock exchange and we are dealing with all the rules and we had performed.

Correctly in all these years.

And that we have been in your current rates and I.

I I think that.

What we now see these quote unquote tensions.

Between USA in China, They may come down.

More quickly than we anticipate.

In the tanker business political events.

Many many times turning metals upside down and we may see this again.

So.

The operator.

These few birds.

I don't wish to talk more but I would like to respond to any question you may have about an industry in which I have been all my life and which I.

We'll be hanging in for a long time I can assure you.

And I have done a a few right things and I'm hopeful that I'd be able to together with my board at my colleagues in management to continue that constructive path that we have been on and that we are on at this time.

I mentioned.

In my speech here.

Hi liquidity of the stock.

Ico pads.

Our liquidity.

In the stock which is about.

6.7 million shares.

Shares being traded everyday and we are more than 6.7 million and we are more than double of adult well known shipping companies.

So.

With that payment again by stopped that consensus, though if they like what they say they can find and if they don't like it they can sell and they had order reasons for adjusting their portfolio. So with these few words I call. It back I refer back to I'm do they are.

Our friend from Italy.

Who will or route.

I forget who is in charge here and I will manage their Q and a session humbly outlays.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen, we're now beginning the question answer session. If you wish to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced if you wish to cancel your request. Please press the Hush scheme.

[music].

We are now taking our first question from the line of Randy given please ask your question.

How do you hear me on great to hear from yet how are you.

Oh, I'm doing excellently goes better and better every day.

And how are you doing you are you in Houston or in New York.

Staying away from Marco anymore. So, yes, we are saying say down in Houston.

That's good.

Yes, Sir art question.

You mentioned, you paid a dividend or 92 consecutive quarters.

Quite the street there so looking at the dividend you paid a 10 cents dividend the first quarter 20 cents dividend second quarter. So I guess around that what is the calculation for this or how did you decide on those dividend mounts and then also we expect an 80 to have negative right net income that third quarter. So what is your.

Minimum dividend payment going forward.

I I started my business in Houston I can tell you.

So I could come and visit to and make it speech about an hour to address the questions. You are mentioning that ammonia in the first in the first quarter, Sir we paid.

Centric 14 cents 14 cents and into second quarter, we paid 20 cents.

We are paying now those who buy stock now they've got 20 cents.

Next.

The fourth of July the force of September Bath.

And you had started calculating our recent for the third quarter and I hybrid courageously asked you how many how many suezmaxes do you have you know.

Otherwise you could comment and see that what you are referring to it's not what we are seeing.

We think that 2020.

We'll be a good you share for the tanker business and for Nordic American shipping that that's point number one point the too.

2000.

And 21 will be a good gap.

For the tanker business.

And the reason I'm seeing that is you can also if you study. The details you will see either it's a high degree of volatility.

Hi degree of volatility.

The us indicate at balanced market I balanced market.

And.

I am I think this is going very very well, but of course, we're not talking about the market next week I mean, we don't go by week by week, we are talking about the direction of the company and the company can essentially go three ways that act that sideways.

And that's down and.

This company is going.

And those who believe that they're going down they can take their own and ask a question and gave that rational what we know about we know about the energy business and we know about our business that this what we know about and with within the limited time I cannot spend.

Two long time.

On the each question, but we're very confident and then anybody could argue obviously wrong and that is essentially what they said earlier during this conversation if it take more wrong decisions then right decisions then we go into the big Black hole, but we have.

Over many many many years, taking the right decisions and you know we saw it on scrap is it was a catastrophe for many people who went for that thing have you saw it immediately this was nothing for us.

At this is the question of being a businessman, which it's very difficult to two to two to be a businessman and you must think about less than they send this and this and they said very more quickly.

They call it that America, I believe M. LTL Levis pick Jeff and you have so many dimensions to head to head to head in Euro analysis that it's impossible to it's impossible to predict the future because if the future.

Very easy to predict everybody would that be do that and that is really our job is to undertake and professional judgment of the situations as we say yet.

With simplicity transparency and with the predictability.

Sorry.

I shouldn't to go so far but essentially you that wrong on that on the dividend numbers and bought and bought the.

What is the future dividend will be this is Ed risk management question.

Risk management question that has to take balance sheet considerations. We include the views on the market. We include.

All these elements of international politics, I'm sorry. This was a long answer to your specific question send the please.

Comment further if you have any HOKA order abuse it plays.

All right.

That was very robust demand answer I appreciate the color there and I can understand okay. The minimum dividend payment that's influx, maybe there's some nuances around it but again can you just explain the calculation for the prior to dividend is that a percentage of net income a percentage of free cash.

We will come to my office I shall give you at speech in economics, and we can spend one hour together.

About that because this is said very complicated business and they said risk as I said it takes a risk management question you cannot do you cannot easily say did so that that this number and this percentage that's left how business works.

But the I will more than willingly talk about it because it it this intellectually and interesting question, but it goes far beyond beyond the scope of this.

As a conversation thank you.

Once cobot NW knocking on your door next secondly.

Looking at your debt you finished the second quarter with 300, and I don't know 70 million in total that no you're wrong, you're wrong, we're wrong you're wrong, we have added.

The net debt of our fleet is 11 million pass Yeah pass it 11 million.

We are.

Gross what's that.

Gross amount of your total debt.

Yeah, but you mentioned the it's a question of Ocean ease. The also whether you include include that we had one credit up we had gone outside the Southern America.

Well not a.

Biggest banks in America owned by one person and the average debt over.

Our feet is.

It's a tube, it's 11 million dollar could you be own could you give them make a comment on the debt side I think.

The CFO will make S and X you chat.

A comment but I can assure you we will be debt free.

And we shall not to ask you end the to borrow money from you.

Got it Okay Mr. CFO please.

I think you're right about recruiting.

Number yes, what was the question okay.

11 million is that correct.

What's the matter self promotion.

Net debt touch it.

If you if you try it if you try to allude that we have a lot though that you are drawn.

Got it I agree with you I'm trying to if you. Let me finish here you do not have a lot of debt absolutely not right. You are under Levered compare to your book value can player to even the market diagnosed the vessels so with that with low leverage are you thinking about are able to refinance your expensive debt with few bank and ocean yield.

With new bank loans right at LIBOR, plus I don't know 300, right I said earlier.

We are finished with Scandinavian banks the answer is no.

I expect the.

I expect to be that tree.

And it's it three S. Four five yes, you could always argue about the timing, but when the our debt free we are debt free.

And we have been that before and we should come there again that's noisy.

Awesome and I'll ask one more quick question.

We're hoping it doesn't go 10 minutes, but youre entering the second quarter, you raised 15 million through the ATM you issued 2.46 million shares at $6 in 22 cents a share obviously, a great deal with your share price now 40. So what are your plans for this cash and why not sell more shares with.

Your share price trading well above an AB.

Let me put it like this we all of us.

Our trading above and HIV and HCV is not of a big interest to our customers.

Exxon movies, they don't say well be like that shipping cost actually it has a lower navy and that ship has a higher navy that is not how businesses working.

You know and the M&A, we are not scrap steel is we're not scrap the lists we have now close to $1 a year in a dividend.

Oh, a slightly less and the prices.

So prices about for the half or something and.

Yes, those who believes as I believe that we are in a very good platform and they should buy stock and those who don't like it they should sell stock you know that's how it is really and that is how we wish to beats and.

In the five Years' time, and I expect to be here in five years seismic and tell you.

It might help this as good as it is now and then when we are.

That trade if we are at Tyler in five year, then you and I can meet and Randy.

And they can buy beer.

Okay.

And then okay I would suggest that we go onto an order question if the let somebody else.

Pass it onto someone else and give them a shot but hopefully that's good that very kind of you.

Alright have gone Sir.

Thank you.

Thank you we are now taking our next question from the line of Omar Nokta. Please ask your question.

Hi, Thank you I heard you aren't thanks for the update and an overview on things.

And Randy I hope, you're wearing a mouse card.

Anyway.

Herbie on Europe, I think quite clear in your plans on becoming a debt free company here just like you were in the past and that seems really achievable over the next three to four years. If you just simply user an average somewhere in the mid twentys on the on the Suezmaxes.

Once your debt free you can run an 18 now without quote unquote interference from the banks, how do you view in debt free in the context of the first item in your strategy, which is the expansion of homogenous fleet, how do you see those two interplaying.

Well the themselves.

Okay.

Yes, yes.

We are making good money in the marketplace and.

What we forget in this discussion value often is that we're making good money in the marketplace as we add on this first half yes, we did excellently based upon a clear strategy, we fix as many ships as we could.

Hi asked we could add.

The and that was very very successful.

And.

We will.

Be it and work towards becoming a directory, we have an operating costs of about $8000 today.

And that does that number that we decide outsell.

Because we decide the quality and of course, if we can pick up 32000 in the marketplace. As we had done recently there has been in late two level now, but if you can't manage 30000.

A lot of cash is coming into the companies and we do have a lot of cash at this time and we.

We wish to add responding to the earlier question, we wish to use that cash to give to all shareholders, including my sense. If he can manage that it is a very sensitive.

Objected to do this and we must think about how we do it and there in which way when it comes to growth.

Renewal.

I.

Expect that there.

We will of course renew our fleet, we have now actually speak today more than hundred million dollar in the bank and and of course, that's a lot of money and can be used for a lot of things that we are very very careful not to overextend.

No sense, because we are conservative people and that is at the bottom of our thinking and at the center of our thinking we are very very conservative.

Ship owners all over the world in my whole career in my experience there had been flat.

Speculative talk too speculative, but other people may wish to head that approach I don't played blend them because other people they should run their business as they lease that's all that's one thing that you should count down here when also renewing the fleet that.

That is.

We will be conservative these will be conservative.

I can tell you.

Almost every day, but several times a week people are no king at outdoor.

Asking us to buy ships from them.

They are doing that.

But we sit back and that is.

And the advantage of sitting in the small.

Outside the us ROE and nobody sees for three or do you know they know it after we have done that you know.

And Oh, I'm, sorry, Omar I went to stray here with my comments couldn't do come back to your comments. Please.

Now I know.

That was helpful.

It's helpful. In a good overview I think you did touch on the main.

Question and I think.

As you think about the fleet renewal Herbjrn you sit on several industry boards and and clearly the key discussion I think going forward is also propulsion and a year ago. There are a lot of questions and uncertainty, though it seemed that may be LNG was gaining some traction but here. We are a year later now there is more talk and uncertain.

But there is ammonia, there's hydrogen and the equation any thoughts on that and also maybe could you give a perspective on how NFC is preparing for some of the upcoming changes to industry.

Let me take 1.2, which all this.

Has been at the core of our thinking.

We are not they easing.

Dig a technological a flag.

We don't go first.

Because thats not our inclination and not our thinking all which we like others to go first and that is a battery cynical approach, we simply like others to do the mistakes and when they had the when they had done to mistakes.

We learned from their mistakes I mean, it's much better to learn from the mistakes of others than.

Your own mistakes they at least if you repeat them all the time. So we I don't see that LNG you know it's anything for it at this time, but if I mean, our engine. So no ships can burn low a low sulfur.

Sure.

These loyal and the low low.

Got you call it SEC.

Yes, we hadn't comply infuse, but my short question is we don't we don't waived the technological flag.

That we must be very very quality orientated that is important for us, but if people would like us to install all kinds of things and they say well. It's fine if you will pay for it we win over certain period of time.

We will install it if you pay for it that we don't install it if you don't pay for it.

It is that this our basic principle.

But we have a good standing with our big customers and perhaps the one thing which is most important they rely on this they rely on us what do they have in this company. We had three things that these ships and explained about diabetic.

Secondly, we have the people and his staff onboard and.

Among our colleagues and I I happened to believe you had the best people out there.

And thirdly, not least we had the capital we had the capital.

Because in America and I don't.

No America better than many of you, but they're now one thing.

From America for almost two decades, a few has a good standing and if you had a good idea you always find the money, we hand 60 to 70000 shareholders and that this per head so nine assets and if I ask.

So that we do it like this they often follow my advice and the advice. So this board that this really how we approach it and because I said to it and the region Bagger Aethlon type Yuma quite a big Norwegian back and I said, we are dealing with a big this bank into wound.

But he said Oh is there anybody who is bigger than hurts deficit. The American capital market is bigger than any bank and my experience is that they will all the support this provided via at diligently and openly and with integrity I must admit on this call.

That I immigrate Fat North America.

All the weaknesses.

In America, but I've had I started the our business and personally in Houston, Texas as I mentioned.

Surreal that average bond.

Matt you did very very good and helpful. Appreciate that and clearly building a cash position and getting set that free open. The next few years does allow you to.

Mike.

Watch others make mistakes and the new before you choose the right.

The right is them.

And so we've taken from both of the orders mitts mistakes yet please.

Yes.

Thanks, everyone.

Anybody else, who would like to have a conversation then the question.

Now you must be critical.

Now it's up to you guys to take action and not say afterwards. So it was a stupid man you know you take it now stand up and say I can discuss anything associated with the tanker business.

Andrea.

Yes, we are now taking our next question from the line of Jon Chappell. Please ask your question Jon Chappell I've known since April March 2000 pipe.

Okay, and if there's anything to be critical it's going to remain so perfect time not as good as no excuse you have been wrong. So long time that maybe you will continue on that part thank you John.

So fun anyway. So in your first quarter earnings release, you gave us the second quarter to date rates and yet that wasn't in your second quarter earnings release. So can you can you. Please just give us the quarter to date rates for the third quarter I asked we stand now and I don't issue guarantees but.

We are probably in the region of 30000 dollar.

Or between Okay.

Between I would say to be more modest between 25 and 30.

Tony territory Okay.

But.

We are doing fine and our strategy and fixing maximum.

Has been a very good strategy.

So I don't on any ships, so I don't I can't say with certainty, but most of the ship broker currently.

And on our that you as well.

Okay.

I don't think that learn by being there but anyway.

So have you done a bunch of short term charters or do you have any ships that were on floating storage contracts that enabled you to get to 30000, a day when the market's been in the teams.

Yes, the answer is yes.

The we had done that and now they sell lifted lull in the markets now and they are asking us to too.

We have a few ship setting.

As storage not very many if you.

And.

People are telling me you know that the market is down and then they say that's fine.

But I would say site a good friend of mine. He also said what is down comsat and Vertis at comes down but market this down.

People are afraid the that it will not increase and Conversely, when the market is that they are concerned that will fall.

But I.

I mentioned earlier.

When there is high volatility that there is an indication of a balanced market.

Balanced market.

I can see one quote unquote danger.

Good for whatever reason, they should quote unquote close China.

And close the far east because the.

Our east is to growth center of the World.

No question.

On that did increase these countries are running the world and we are only believed we are running the world, but I believe that the cooperation between east and west is much better than we see but.

I hear you know.

To predict the future, it's not DC and if it had been easy a lot of other people were dead on it that we had such strong links in America.

That that I'm very very pleased with our cooperation with America, we even had the American flag in our logo.

But if your customers.

By stocking and 80.

You are not how they can sleep well.

I'd say hello to them for me.

Well I just have one follow up question, which ties together something from Randy and something from Omar If we think about the cash that you've generated and uses of cash you can either pay down that you can either by ships or you can either pay dividends, but it seems that to do all three of them and to make all three of them your top priority means at.

Certain point, you get kind of low on capital so how much of the us equity markets and your ability to issue stock play into your plans to continue to pay a robust dividend yet to debt free and expand your fleet all within a three year period.

To become debt free.

Well not be very difficult if the market is quite strong and balanced going forward.

But the other part of the of your question, if we win pay dividend dividend each at priority and.

We have had gone basic.

Assumption in our thinking that it's that world goes on we cannot really plan that they will doesn't go on that gave no meaning.

But we are following the market everyday I speak to our chartering director Mr., Tom stopped every morning, and every evening and discussing and thinking about maneuvering I don't get involved in day to day chartering only it'll have important question.

Involving Libya for instance, Libya, we were the first people who saved.

Refugees in the Mediterranean coming from Libya, We did in the September 2013 and there.

When we moved from the east to West I get involved we had the problem solve that what you call them.

The dental shifts from shoot up four cents Pirates Pirates, you know, we had Bob higher on our ships.

We.

And we have ongoing so no shapes and we go through the many times the Persian Gulf between the Iran and the other country.

Then via the straight up all Moose, we we are used to handling risk distributor Hormuz, it's a 29 feet and for your models not ticket items and we know that very often so we are used to handling these risks.

Which also has to do the capital.

Coming back to your question.

Dividend is a priority.

To issue stock in the equity market is not at all that priority and.

We are also looking at around the next corner and.

Looking for a better market and of course, the trouble with ship owners is always there.

Really optimistic overly optimistic and read I to curtail our optimism we tried to do that we literally speaking try to be sober.

And then you know.

I have a lot of cash in this company and I cannot.

I cannot afford to go bankrupt you know that's why and so.

Very fast.

In this sorry, youre not on that I didnt respond more clearly, but how does that.

Excellent.

Dividend is priority.

Understood.

Ill, let Andre auctions, but.

Thank you.

Thanks, a question pleasure that due to the joint underlay anybody else.

Yes, we are now taking our next question from the line of Geoffrey Scott. Please ask your question.

Good afternoon, Thanks for taking my question.

I really want to explore the.

Thinking behind your willingness to.

Spend money on special surveys for the 12.

Where do you have that are over 15 years old.

Special survey that 17 and a half.

Requires about my calculation about $4000 it.

Incremental revenue to pay for it.

So given where rates are now.

What is your thinking about.

Going through special surveys on that to older part of the fleet.

I don't know if you saw Exxon just scratched the ship which were.

38 years of age.

38, TSR age Exxonmobils and when we.

We focus a lot on customers you cannot run that business without customers and when the ships are good enough for Exxon Mobil shell and the peaks that good enough for us I can assure you and.

The only saying that they threw out is probably the chairman somebody saying that you haven't done Nordic American is too old, but we don't need to have a discussion on that.

Yeah.

These calculations you mentioned, they're very fair efficacy they have battery theoretical and I summarize it when the best companies in the world at renewal two titles and others say the pipeline.

It is fine.

And they also comply with our requests and to draw these.

Lines.

In the sand or wherever doesn't give you and the wet to go we are extremely quality orientated.

You know what are the biggest companies in Scandinavia.

They're not line Spinout, Hi Inn in Sweden.

Hi, scrapped won over their Paris carrying people.

And the ferry was 40 years of age they carried people in the best suits that was 40, yes, and then we must we'll be able to carry.

The oil.

Crude oil in the ship, which is 15 Yeso age and of course, if we had said earlier.

And he see.

About the.

And shipping 15, yes.

All three have now 15 years will trend.

We wouldn't have been running this business I remember, we had one of the total insurance experts in the world.

Participating in our board.

And.

We had a competitor resubmitted.

As proposal for a ship that were about 15 years or slightly less and the order Guy He had the ship which were three years and.

Somebody said, it's obvious they will take this.

Which is three as this year.

But then I said you must remember that the owner is hitting in jail, you know and it's a question what they said earlier.

The quality, our people and the quality of assets and the access to money.

So I'm I'm not concerned about the.

The age of a ship but of course the renewal of the fleet is all this.

On the agenda no question.

And it will be properly on yet and at this market to related whenever the market. This strong many people had forgotten what they mentioned about age.

Okay that the.

The Nordic serious for example, our turns 20 years old on October 19th So we're talking.

Less than two months and she's sitting now off the coast to China. So are you, saying that you will pay for special survey for her and get are going for another two and half years absolutely.

No question.

And the same thing would be true for the politics and the same thing will be through for the chairman.

Yes.

You should become a ship owner.

Are you on some of your stock ownership and that's good for you the since that's good for you.

Yeah.

We have paid 50 dollar in a dividend over last year's nine time to allow the lost 10, yes, but anyhow to be valley failures.

They said.

I cannot argue with people about age you know, but they argue with people about customers.

And when big oil when big oil are saying this is good.

And it's the same in our judgment.

You can take a lot about us, but we are not stupid.

But we don't wish to get all the money to ship brokers I can tell you.

Okay forget about the absolute it's let's talk about the ship performance.

The fuel consumption on the 20 year old ship is substantially higher than the fuel consumption on a on a new show.

So that gives that not correct no that may not be the case, because you must remember.

Are you in ballast are you in late in the condition are you a.

That's very important and how fast do you go how fast do you go when do you are imbalance. Many ships goes down to 10 10, a 10 notes and this.

Difference between and you will shape and the end not such a new ship, it's becoming smaller than small on small now that of course it is a consideration it.

Consideration, but normally speaking, it's not as big the difference it's not as large as many people think it's not that is our experience we have to cost picture for each individual ships I would say and is to somebody but.

Correct me the difference would could be three tons for tones at the very low speed.

Yes at very low speed.

It would you say that switches.

Turning to most it's 10 miles so when you go from tend not 10 notes, but again. The this you know it's a question own. So Scott whether you have invested $60 million or whether you ended invested the $15 million lateral 20 million dollar that it.

They big difference.

You know.

But but the main point is the quality, we never compromise on quality and big oil they never compromise on quality.

And we will never do that either you know.

So sorry about that.

Okay, I'll, let somebody else. Thank you.

Thank you Scott.

Antibody added Seth unless I would like to.

To.

Given the.

Crash course and tanker economics.

Yes, we have a another question coming from the line of Josh do not please ask your question.

Josh.

Hello can you hear me.

Yes.

Okay. So earlier you'd mentioned that the American capital markets.

Very important to this business.

But given the dividend as a percentage of the stock price it doesnt seem as though the American capital markets are valuing.

The shares adequately.

That being said.

Would you not.

I think it will be in the best interest of the company to retire shares at this time.

The question is how Oh this stuff is rated according to.

Compared with them with the.

Scrap value if you wish I had the.

Over the years had a policy we have added policy, we don't comment on the stock market that stock markets and the stock price the stock price is the stock price, but and if I say they value it to two lowly.

We have seen how recently that Somo my colleagues have bought stock in the company and.

And.

My son.

Who is a member of the board he has bought stock in the company.

And that when you theoretically if you should the buyback stock then it means that the stock price it's below.

So called steam value.

But again.

It is the quality of the shape and notice this devalued and.

I don't know if if anybody would like to say all about this I it will be wrong to two to buyback stock at this time.

Our view the main.

The main.

I would say grievances criticism.

The Unpatented in my view its own some people have said well.

New stock is too highly prized.

And I said, Oh, that's bad what's that we do a.

The two highly priced.

Chevy Asia, they ask shareholders to two asked them, what they say about that and.

If the stock is two highly priced then how responses fine we can live with that.

We can be can live very well with that because.

But the underlying premise here is how we treat dividend and how we treat the capital structure question that is how really but it wouldn't be right that we understand it now to buyback stock at this time, but if somebody could write me.

And then all of the Hoffer page of on page and tell me why then I will read the mammo with great interest.

Okay.

Thank you and lay out anymore wishing to.

Ask questions.

Yes, we have another question coming from the line of her repaid please ask your question.

Karen.

Hello.

Can you hear me.

Yes.

Okay I was wanting to know about one as you go to expand the point. Our ears are you planning to do that by issuing shares or by doing it for cash flow mostly.

Well, it's a difficult question, but I, we would prioritize cash route.

And that.

My experiences and our experience it can go very very fast.

It can go very very fast we.

We have seen it now some time ago out in the one year ago, the cash towards 67 million and and and that.

Recently, it was 145 million. So it can go very very fast.

And the answer it.

You cannot give precise onset.

At all but.

We.

We leased to expand the fleet at the right time with the right money.

In a way that it's beneficial for the company and shareholder without I would say jeopardizing our.

Desire and I'll focus on paying dividend that we did that it's a kind of main thing for us that.

That's one trend our mindset the biggest room in the world There's room for improvement and if any of you have good suggestions send me a note.

Antibodies.

Yes, thank you very much bedrock or answered.

All.

Like soon.

Sure the ball with cash flow and not not dilute shareholder value product you very much. Thank you.

Anybody else somebody off.

There are no other questions from the line at the moment, if you wish to ask a question. Please press star one.

Nobody asked that question.

With that right.

Well.

I would then nonetheless, and a deal listeners say, thank you for joining us.

Was a great pleasure to be with this.

And if you feel that I said something wrong.

Send me a note and don't be too hard for me.

We're always trying to do the best and the question is whether the best is good enough you never know that I had a great admiration for America and that admiration naval Keith.

Irrespective of trends or anybody else you know.

And again.

But to be a businessman, it's quite a hard jump I can't tell you and you know that yourself.

And.

Because I feel that read.

Yes, Responsability I feel responsibility now for our crew that I mentioned that I also feel strong responsibility for our own us.

And I can assure you in concluding this company is in great shape, and I disagreed strongly with anybody eluding the opposite view.

So and thank you very much embraer. Thank you very much my friends that how many people that we had India.

And layout.

Yes, we had the 126 people.

Okay.

That's fine. Thank you very much for joining us and we keep in touch thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the core for today. Thank you for participating you may disconnect.

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