Q4 2020 Cedar Realty Trust Inc Earnings Call
Welcome to the fourth quarter 2000, Twenty's Cedar Realty Trust earnings Conference call. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded at this time all audience lines have been placed on mute we will conduct a question and answer session. Following the formal presentation I would now turn this call back over to.
Mr. Nicholas part tender. Please proceed go ahead.
Good evening and thank you for joining us for the fourth quarter of 2020, Cedar Realty Trust earnings Conference call.
Participating in today's call will be Bruce <unk>, Chief Executive Officer, Robin Zeigler, Chief operating Officer, and Philip Mays, Chief Financial Officer.
Before we begin please be aware that statements made during the call that are not historical maybe deemed forward looking statements.
Actual results may differ materially from those indicated by such forward looking statements.
These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties, including those disclosed in the company's most recent form 10-K for the year ended 2019 as updated by our subsequently filed quarterly reports on form 10-Q, and other periodic filings with the SEC as a reminder, forward looking statements.
Only as the date of this call February 4th 2021, and the company undertakes no duty to update them.
During this call management may.
Refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures income.
Funds from operations and net operating income.
Please see the earnings press release, and supplemental financial information posted on its website for reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures with the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures with that I will now turn the call over to Bruce Shanker.
Thanks, Nick.
And thank you all for joining us this evening for Cedars fourth quarter 2020 earnings Conference call.
Before sharing my thoughts on the quarter and full year 'twenty 'twenty.
Must acknowledge and thank my colleagues and board of directors. This has been a year like no other and yet certain things have remained remarkably and reassuringly the same.
The members of team Cedar have continued to work with their typical commitment to everyday excellence collegiality and collaboration.
We'll admit after nearly 10 years.
I might have started to take your devotion to our two hour remarkably special corporate culture for granted.
But the experience over the last 10 months has reminded me how fortunate I am to have you all as colleagues and teammates.
And in leading by example, our board continues to evidence judgment and character that represent the highest forms of service to our shareholders and management team.
This collective effort by everyone involved in theater is precisely why the fourth quarter of 2020 might go down as one of the finest in the history of this company.
Remarkably despite being in the midst of a pandemic the likes of which we literally have not seen in over a century.
Our fourth quarter 'twenty 'twenty operating SFO was actually higher.
Then it was in the fourth quarter of 2019.
This is a result of team Cedar remaining keenly focused on executing both our near term pandemic related initiatives and not losing sight of the needs of our post pandemic future.
However, pandemic related initiatives have revolved around collections expense management tenant health and retention proactive renewals and energetic leasing.
We have had considerable success on many of these fronts with collections in the mid nineties.
G&A down approximately $2 million.
And commendable tenant retention renewals and leasing.
And Robin will discuss much of this in greater detail.
More generally as we have navigated through this crisis, we have made tough.
But thoughtful decisions about corporate expenditures and capital allocations.
We have reduced headcount by roughly 20% and.
<unk> performed a zero based budgeting exercise that allowed us to reduce G&A by roughly $2 million as I just noted in.
In addition, we mothballed or south quarter crossing redevelopment project allowed.
Allowing us to focus on our more promising mixed use redevelopment projects and.
And paused other smaller capital projects, which we hope to restart during 'twenty 'twenty one.
Lastly, we negotiated with our vendors to ensure that the challenging operating environment did not impact our ability to maintain compliance and capacity on our corporate credit facility.
These as well as many other smaller measures all added up to a company that is going to be able to ride out the balance of this pandemic and is well positioned for the post pandemic future.
And as we look to the post pandemic future. We are encouraged by the progress we are making on many of the initiatives we touched on during our third quarter 'twenty 'twenty conference call spin.
Specifically, we continue to make strong progress in advancing a large scale refinancing of our unsecured debt with longer term and attractively price mortgage debt.
Additionally, we are making solid strides in finalizing a joint venture for the construction of the D. G S built.
Representing the first phase of our northeast Heights redevelopment project.
On that note while the JV negotiation is not done we are starting to see the potential first fruits of our labors on the redevelopment side and as much as the pro forma returns to theater for our D. G. S investments appear strong and support our decision to pursue this project.
Lastly, we are exploring asset sales as they needs of honing our portfolio, while generating additional capital for Delevering as we do every year.
Robin will expand on the progress we have made I, both the redevelopment front and in terms of leasing.
This pandemic period has represented some unique professional challenges for Robin and her team.
She has advanced our redevelopment projects in the context of our endeavoring to conservatively managed capital expenditures spin.
Specifically.
Assuming the D. G. S. J V is completed as currently contemplated.
I'll be excited to pull back the curtain on the value creation potential inherent in our platform.
Evidenced by this first phase.
More generally as we start to come through this period I feel good about where we stand and it is very much a credit to her and her team.
Bill will then touch on our financial results as well as the secured financing we are pursuing and provide the framework for how we're thinking about 'twenty 'twenty one guidance.
We are not formally providing 'twenty 'twenty one S. F O guidance on accounts of all the moving pieces in both the operating environment generally and at Cedar in particular, nonetheless between the remarkable efforts in advancing our refinancing the management at our bank relationships and simply the overall strong.
Management and accounting team working remotely.
Phil and his team similarly, you should be commended for their strong jobs in 2020.
At the end of the year, we also announced the transition of theaters chairmanship from Roger Whitman to Greg Gonzales.
If there was ever an example of going from strength to strength it would be this change in leadership.
Both Roger and Greg are prime examples of character intellect and judgment.
I cannot overstate, how much I learned from Roger and how much we all benefited from his years of service to theater.
However, I also acknowledge that I am supremely excited at the prospect of gaining from Greg's insights and contributions.
At Cedar the chairman's role is a very active one.
I have regularly scheduled weekly call calls with our chairman.
As well as many unscheduled calls.
This communication model started with Roger when I joined Cedar and has continued with Greg.
Moreover, during the pandemic.
Also had regular calls with the full board as they are closely monitored our progress through this challenging time.
The us even though we are only a few weeks into the new regime with Greg at the helm.
I can confidently state our shareholders continue to be in good hands with our outstanding Board and with our remarkable board leadership.
All of the progress during the pandemic period and through the end of 'twenty 'twenty evidence is the fact that our highly skilled team coupled with our strong and resilient core grocery anchored shopping centers are poised for continued solid performance in the face of the challenges of the parent.
<unk> you have the secular headwinds facing retail more generally.
On top of this our redevelopment projects are getting ready for prime time.
Excited to hopefully be able to share more on these projects once the D. G. S. JV negotiations are completed.
The experience of the last 10 months brings to mind, the Mark Twain quote in which he famously said the reports of my demise are greatly exaggerated.
During the depths of the pandemic cedar shares traded to a level, where the only explanation was that we were about to expire.
In fact, rather than expiring we have thrived on a relative basis.
We have done this by maintaining focus and energy, while not losing sight of our core values and corporate culture.
I have never been prouder to lead this organization.
And I look forward to what the future holds.
And with that I will give you robin.
Thanks, Bruce good evening.
We ended the turbulent year of 2020, we couldn't tell you to see the benefits in foresight upholding our portfolio anchored by grocery and essential businesses.
The concentration of our top 10 tenants as measured by annualized rent are essential grocer anchored retailers with the exception of la fitness and Staples. These top 10 retailers represents 30 per cent of our annualized base rent.
Our individualized hands on approach to rent collection. During this pandemic has proved a successful formula.
Fourth quarter 2020 collections rate totaled $94 three per cent, a three six per cent increase over the third quarter collections right.
As of today, we executed 113 deferral agreement totaling $3.3 million.
The average payback period is 10.4 months with the average deferral totaling four months of rent.
As mentioned previously but wished bears repeating these agreements were made with tenants in an effort to not only sustain their viability, but also to achieve some landlord favorable concessions, including sales reporting additional lease term and modification of key lease provisions.
Our leasing team continues to drive hard to keep a solid leasing pace.
This quarter, we completed deals for 222000 square feet totaling 37 comparable leases comprised of four new leases and 33 renewals well they total comparable spread of 1.5 per cent.
Same center leased occupancy as of year end 2020 is 91.2 per stop 0.5 per cent reduction from third quarter. The vacancies that we experienced are largely consistent with what we have been saying throughout the pandemic as it has affected some categories, particularly hard especially.
And the centers restaurants and movie theaters.
Our largest impact of return of possession of it was from 24 hour fitness at carbons, which closed due to a bankruptcy filing in June 2020.
Other significant closures included AC Moore in April 2020 at the point and they want K Mart at Valley Plaza in March 2020, and the bankruptcy filing of pet value in December 2020.
In 2021, we have had to close or a kroger at Coliseum in January and all its at Valley Plaza in March.
Carmen Plaza Valley Plaza in New London, Vacancies have led to attractive rates kind of thing and re merchandising opportunities for those centers that will be announced in the coming quarters.
The mixed use redevelopment and value add renovations are progressing steadily at fish Towne crossing the Iga grocery store a facade renovation has been completed and we are preparing to finish the remaining facade renovation and place making improvements for the rest of the center.
We paused this project during COVID-19, but anticipate restarting in the coming months.
Our other value add renovation Yorktown, what's also put on hold due to the pandemic. This project is fully entitled with leases executed with IHOP, Dunkin' Donuts and Panda Express.
We are anticipating the commencement of this renovation in 2021 as well.
Have a third value add renovation underway and Norwood shopping center in Norwood, Massachusetts, The Big why gross share at this center has executed a lease in January 2021, foreign expansion of 12402 square feet to a 55000 square foot new prototypical grow share. This.
Grocery expansion will allow for some modest upgrades throughout the rest of the center, including a facade renovation site improvements and our new pylon.
In order to facilitate this expansion the existing store closed in January 2021, and it's planned to reopen in summer 2022.
In a similar vein to some of our other project the redevelopment of south quarter crossing was halted during COVID-19.
We subsequently decided that based on prudent capital allocation, we will focus our efforts and capital on what we project to be the most profitable mixed use projects in our portfolio rebel rate and northeast Heights, we.
We have placed the redevelopment of south quarter crossing on a longer term hold and we are moving forward with a modest facade renovation in small shop leasing effort on the South Philadelphia shopping center side of the project.
Likewise, we will continue our leasing efforts epistyle renovation on the quartermaster side. The scope has been refined in a way that affords us the flexibility to be able to pursue the originally planned redevelopments at some point in the future.
The flight planning for Ravelry continues around the potential addition of a new anchor we have terminated at the United artists lease based on their nationwide shutdown of operations. This anchor ship should affect your way better more solid merchandising for this center.
We plan to commence the process for capitalizing this redevelopment with a joint venture partner or other equity stores upon execution of an LOI with a new contemplate at anchor.
The first phase of northeast Heights, but D. C Department as General services office buildings totaling 260000 square feet of office and ground floor retail.
Expected to commence construction in spring 2021 construction of the New office building requires that the the demolition of unity health care, whose lease expired in December 2020, we have relocated unity health care to three spaces at the adjacent Senator square shopping center, allowing the continuity of an important matter.
Provider to this community.
We are in negotiations with a large private equity firm to join US as a limited partner in a joint venture I wish will finance. The project. We are excited about them about embarking upon the first phase of this neighborhood revitalization at one seven of Washington D C, which we anticipate to create a positive impact on this community free.
Years to come.
This year has certainly brought its challenges, but our team a theater has stepped up to those challenges and persevered with that I will give you Phil.
Thanks Robyn.
On this call I will briefly highlight operating results and then provide our current expectations for 2021.
Turning with operating results.
For the quarter operating <unk> was $9 $8 million or 71 cents per share.
And for the full year operating <unk> was $43 million or $2 91 per share.
In regards to same property NOI growth for the year same property NOI decreased six 8%, excluding redevelopment properties and nine 3%, including Redevelopments.
The decrease relating to redevelopment properties was largely driven by United artists at Riverview Plaza, the only large movie theater and our portfolio.
Along with intentional vacancy necessary to facilitate our value add redevelopments and urban mixed use projects.
Well in the depth of the pandemic crisis, our grocery anchored portfolio demonstrated strength and steady improvement that's reflected in the relatively modest fourth quarter decrease in same property NOI of four per cent.
Our board and the midpoint of our full year 2021 same property NOI projection a decrease of just two per cent.
Moving to 2021 expectations.
At this time, we are not providing 2021 per share guidance for net income or at that low <unk>.
Or would you want to provide our current expectations with regards to some of the key drivers of our earnings those expectations and items are as follows.
Decrease in lease termination income of $7 $5 million.
Recall this is substantially driven by the $7 $1 million of lease termination income.
In Q1 of 2020 related to accepting a cash payment and consideration for permitting a dark anchor to vacate early at Metro square.
Same property NOI decreased 1% to 3%, excluding redevelopment properties and 2% to 4% including redevelopment properties.
Keep in mind, the first quarter and then in 'twenty, one will have a comparable period that was not significantly impacted by the pandemic.
That's making it a difficult comparable.
Property, NOI decreasing $2 $5 million related to property dispositions that closed in 2020.
As discussed we are exploring additional property dispositions in 2021, which if closed would further reduce 2021 property NOI.
Interest expense decreasing approximately $1 $7 million prior to any proactive refinancing transactions completed in 2021.
Taking into account the one year extension option, we have for the revolving credit facility. There are no anticipated 2021 debt maturities.
As discussed on our last call. We are advancing the long term refinancing that a substantial portion of our 2022 debt maturities and then he says completed refinancing will increase interest expense in 2021, and the proceeds will likely first they use to repay outstanding amounts on the company's revolving credit facility, which has a current variable rate of only one.
Eight per cent.
With that I'll open the call to questions.
At this time, we'll be conducting a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad, a confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You May Press Star two if you would like to share them move your question from the queue from participants using speaker.
Equipment and may be necessary for you to pick up your handset before pressing the star key one moment, while we poll for questions.
Our first question comes from the line of Todd Thomas with Keybanc Capital markets. You May proceed with your question.
Hi, Thanks, good afternoon.
First question, Phil just sticking with the guidance a bit the.
Same store NOI growth forecast of down 1% to three per cent for the year can you can you just talk about.
The trajectory there, obviously cycling the COVID-19 impact impacted quarters.
Beginning in the second quarter I'm, just curious if you can provide some guidance around the quarterly cadence and would you expect same store NOI growth in the first quarter to improve on a year over year basis relative to this quarter.
Yes, Todd.
I think you know obviously the first quarter is going to have a very difficult comparable period, because the first quarter of 2020 really had no impact related to the pandemic at all.
So that's going to be a tough comp and you know not only do not affect net improvement it'll it'll probably be.
More negative than it was in the fourth quarter because of the comp involved there.
And then I think you'll see a steady improvement the guidance of one 3% for the full year.
And I think if you want to try to figure out trajectory and be a little more specific with your model probably the best thing to do is go back and look at the cash collections, we reported for the second quarter than the third quarter and the fourth quarter and you can kind of see how far down we did in the second quarter and in the kind of the rapid or the pace at which we came back.
Out of that that's probably your best Matt for kind of figuring out the trajectory, but the 1% to 3% is for the full year.
Okay, and then and then you know you gave us some of the building blocks you know around the the guidance.
You know what what's you know where's the uncertainty I guess stem from then in terms of providing an F O range and you know it.
Is it possible that you provide <unk> guidance in the first quarter.
Yeah, well you know.
We've discussed providing very specific SSO or net income per share guidance.
The reasons, we didn't really kind of fall into three buckets. The first is do you want to call it big picture items.
Look we all hope the worst of the store closures and the stay at home orders are behind us.
And there is not need additional setbacks or ways of these but obviously it still has a risk and even if the worst is behind us it's still possible and even likely we may still see some pandemic related tenant seller failures in 'twenty, one and an additional closures related to the strain the pandemic put on.
Tenants such as gyms.
The second category really for lack of a better term kind of falls under the accounting bucket.
Look you you're you're very good at understanding our business and economics and in the real estate market and you also are taking a lot of interest in understanding the specific accounting issue that comes with it and so you know you'll appreciate at this point, we have about 15% of our rental revenue is on a cash basis.
I'm talking about it before it doesn't mean, we expect these tenants to pay nothing, but they're probably going to pay and frequent.
Probably make partial payments.
And we will recognize revenue as they pay so that's going to create a bumpy and uncertain impact to earnings.
And then for the full year 2020, we did more formal deferral agreements for almost $3 million of rent related to 2020.
<unk> 75 per cent of this is probably an accrual basis tenants <unk> 25 per cent is on cash basis tenants.
That could also create some noise in bumps and a little difficulty in providing a specific amount.
The third bucket is kind of really more cedar specific matters look the amount and timing of dispositions refinancing debt and closing joint venture is related to the urban mixed use developments are all going to have a significant impact on earnings.
Taken as a whole when we walk through all of those we just didn't feel it was appropriate this time to give really specific guidance.
But what we wanted to do because we really appreciate the coverage rate is.
Could you at least a pretty good map and directions now.
Albeit it might be a pay per map and not turn by turn T. P. S directions, but I think if you go through the press release from the supplement.
You have everything you kind of need to put it in the model.
Okay. That's helpful. Yeah, and then so with the rent collection. So 94, 3%. That's a you know a nice improvement from 91% last quarter.
Sounds like that second bucket, you just mentioned right. The 15 per cent of tenants on a cash basis.
You know you are you anticipating that you know that we you could see you know collection levels.
Back off a little bit here you know around January may be in the February.
You know before maybe rebounding a little bit again later in the year end and sort of what's the status overall of.
The remaining tenants that are that are not paying rent today, what's what's sort of the likely outcome here.
I mean, the majority of the cash based incentives we have generally fallen in the categories of Jim.
And even like local gyms.
Particularly.
Restaurant.
And you know health and beauty like nails.
So lance items like our categories like that.
He goes through kind of the collection page, we have where we break down all of our tenants.
By different categories, and we report how much is paying you can go through that and you can look at the low collection categories and they're basically assume those are the ones that are on a cash basis.
It's just it's it could back off a little early in the year. You know there were some setbacks that might trickle in and have some impact. It just it really is lumpy with them. Because you know for instance, we'll have someone not pay for two or three months and four months.
So it's just going to create a little bumping is there but I'm just.
Just for kind of scaling in size I think it is.
Probably helpful to know that you know 15 per cent them on a cash basis.
And hopefully that'll help you have some sense of the potential magnitude of that.
Okay and one last question for Bruce.
You know in terms of the dispositions you talked about exploring some some asset sales you.
You know can you can you sort of book and you know the range and in value that you're you're you know considering or that you're trying to solve for and you know what the timing might look like to see some dispositions cross you know as we think about 'twenty one.
What I would point you to.
I would actually.
Orient you around two different ideas. So we have our to held for sale assets. We have to comment add to boys and then Carl's corner Carl's corner as we've talked about before is a very small asset we just need to.
Get it to a position, where we can divest it but again not meaningful and value.
The comments that the boys is and I said that we've been actively marketing and realistically, it's going to be divested in the first half of the year.
Beyond those two assets, we continue to explore additional asset sales that I would characterize as being more a function of careful portfolio management.
The.
Way, we run our business is that we study our assets and we try to identify where there might be opportunities to either a sell an asset at a value that we think is particularly attractive or sell an asset where we think.
It's reached its.
Peak value.
Where we think that there's the potential for.
Tenants to either meet rent reductions when their leases come up for renewal or where there's a risk that they might move out that second category tide is something that we do actively certainly in the environment. We're in right now arguably we're doing it a little bit more actively.
And I can't predict how that plays out.
I think you know day.
The site the timeline for selling an asset is fairly prolonged so if we didn't have something.
Actively being marketed right now realistically I wouldn't close.
Certainly in the first quarter and probably not even in the first half.
So I would tell you that.
While the Commons.
Two boys.
Is one that you know I think I would expect.
To close in the low call. It first half beyond that while we are actively looking at.
A bunch of situations I can't say that.
<unk>.
Els is likely to sell before call it the middle of the year to the back half of the year.
Yeah.
Okay.
Alright, that's helpful. Thank you.
Sure. Thank you.
As a reminder, if you would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad.
Our next question comes from the line of Flores from Geico.
Net.
Compass point you May proceed with your question.
Yeah.
Thanks, guys for taking my question, Bruce maybe or Robin if you could maybe comment on the the lease spreads and I note that the renewal lease spreads were positive obviously most of your leases where renewals, but your new lease spreads were negative what.
Do you think that's saying about the market and do you anticipate.
Obviously on on our new leases you know further oh.
Lease reductions going forward or how do you see the leasing environment for your portfolio.
Okay.
Rob why don't you take that.
Sure. Thanks for the question so.
So as I mentioned, we only did we have four leases executed in the quarter.
So it's not really a relative comp set.
Our full Oh tenancy.
And in addition to it just being for <unk>.
Deals that were negative were very small small shop.
One at Coliseum, when I can't smell.
And one Carmen from so I wouldn't say that it's reflective of an overall trend, but just more a matter of you know the.
Specific deals that were done at that time and as you can imagine with each shopping center, we kind of evaluate.
The center has a tendency to space that needs to be least and each one has its own kind of the requisite story that goes along with it but.
But you know the <unk>.
Number four leases that were looking at for this particular quarter I don't think it's indicative of kind of an overall story.
And then the renewals as you mentioned, we did a ton of renewals this quarter at 33.
With an overall positive spread and there were.
Some of those that were.
Very positive and you know some of those are offset with some flat or lower spread deals if at all just kind of pans.
Pans out in the wash.
It is certainly more difficult to get a tenant signed in and out.
Incomplete completely lease execution in this current market environment.
But nevertheless, we are trudging through through those waters are still getting getting deals done.
Thanks, Robert can you maybe also comment on the Kroger that vacated I think in January what are the prospects, there and who's going to go into that space in your view.
Yeah. So we have we've been aware of that for.
A little bit of time, and you know that was a corporate decision not necessarily pandemic related or otherwise.
We're actively marketing that box is actually a very good location in Hampton roads, Virginia.
But at the same time, there is a lot of our big box.
Vacancy around the us from a competition standpoint, though we still like we're pretty well positioned in that market to be able to backfill. The box and were also being creative about the types of the types of tenancy that we may look at in addition to retail to anchor the center factoring in.
I need to make sure that we still have a good merchandising and viability for the rest of our small shop, but we.
We are actively.
Currently being marketed.
We hope to be able to announce the baxalta.
Thanks, Robert maybe until if you could.
What can you say about the refinancing.
I think Bruce has alluded to the fact that it could be more expensive obviously to refinance some of your debt that's due in 'twenty, one and 'twenty two and.
And some of it will likely have to be mortgages can.
Can you give any more color around that.
Yeah floors, and we have engaged a firm to explore secured financing options there.
Speaking to both the life companies ANC MBS both.
We've given them a select subset of grocery anchored centers within our portfolio. They are working with but they're just not really in the market with that at this point, we've only gotten some initial in general feedback, but largely it's been positive.
A result of the strong performance of our grocers during the pandemic.
So we're watching that I mean, I think why youre going to see it I think the rates are not going to be so bad Florida is just keep in mind, the first $175 million or so will be likely used to pay down our revolver, which only has a rate of one eight per cent.
All the feedback were initially getting there still with the rates in the mid threes.
But we haven't gotten a lot of specifics that's just been general initial feedback, but I think you know.
It is expensive relative to paying down the line, but as far as long term debt financing I think mid <unk> is not necessarily a bad right.
Additionally, you know the unsecured bank market is starting to come back, albeit slow.
In particular for our retail and smaller companies, but we will keep an eye on that also and we'll monitor that as we get feedback from the firm we've engaged to explore secured financing and you know once we kind of get a good matrix of all of those options you know will flow.
Sizes and and or it accordingly.
And do you expect how how when do you expect something like that obviously you have a little bit of time, Phil before you have to make a decision but do you think this will be a second.
Second quarter or third quarter event in your view.
I'm hopeful by the time, we go to our next call I can give you more specifics around that.
So hopefully when we get on our next call you know I'll be able to provide more details and more direction.
Great and one last question from me is it so as if if you do go down this secured routes how different is your balance sheet going to look in your view in three year start.
Well I and I'm talking more about.
The mixture between.
Our secured and unsecured and and and and and term and all of those things.
Will this August presumably if your mortgage these assets you're going to term out your debt quite a bit is this 10 15 year I guess it depends a little bit on the terms, but you know how how will this help derisk the balance sheet going forward.
Yeah, So generally with the bank group Youre talking five years seven years.
Like codes and C and B S. Not so much the theme Bastian Bes 10 years of life Coast 710, 12, 15 are all potential options.
Really it's going to depend on the rate we get on the amortization terms in particular, you know that all I owe partial io.
The loan to values was you know that we get and we'll size it accordingly.
To significantly Derisk, our 'twenty two maturities.
The point to where we're comfortable but will do so.
Kind of.
Based on the terms, we get back along with what the bank market is doing but obviously, we'd like to term it out and take as long as the longest tenure we can.
And and clear up no substantial portion if not all of the 22 maturities.
Yeah.
Thanks, Phil sorry, and I just had one one final follow up here maybe for Bruce.
And I know you can't comment on the on the.
The letter from your from one of your shareholders, but but maybe.
One of the.
The thoughts that I've heard from a couple of investors is that you know on the G&A reduction obviously, that's one of the things that was harped on by the by the activist.
Did you reduce your head count quite a bit how much of that head count reduction.
In your view is permanent versus just a temporary.
Covid related production.
Head count reduction.
Is certainly.
Something that as a broad characterization, we hope to make.
Maintain from an order of magnitude perspective.
Just to take you back floors, and you've been with us for a while.
Phil and I started at Cedar, we added 115 employees, we reduced that to two.
70, alright slowly.
Creeped up to 75, as we expanded our redevelopment efforts.
And during.
During the course of the pandemic as part of just a more granular G&A reduction exercise, we reduced head count further a lot of that.
A significant part of that happen.
The back half of the year, obviously depends ethnic first arrived after the first quarter.
In terms of back filling I would say that there are probably.
Fewer than a handful of positions that were likely.
To backfill.
During the course of 'twenty one.
But my hope is again to be able to run a little bit leaner.
Then we have in the past keep in mind.
The.
People, who are carrying the burden of this is the balance of team Cedar and so I do.
Yeah recognize their efforts. These are folks who are working incrementally harder than they have in the past, but certainly we recognize that.
This was this pandemic period was an opportunity for us to really.
Bear down on our G&A to really do a line by line analysis.
Where we're spending money and of course. The result was this reduction in G&A and again, it's going to hopefully continue into 'twenty one in terms of.
<unk> two.
Focus on that and continuing to extract savings from the platform.
Thanks, Bruce that's it from me for now.
Thank you.
Our next question comes from the line of work.
UBS you May proceed with your question.
Yeah.
We have reached the end of today's question and answer session I would like to turn the call back over to Mr. Bruce <unk> for closing remarks.
Okay.
Thank you all for joining us this evening.
I expect the next few months, a teeter are going to be remarkably exciting and productive.
Tween or refinancing and redevelopment joint venture, we hope to have exciting announcements before our next earnings call.
Beyond those two matters, we anticipate continued solid progress on our many other initiatives that we look forward to sharing in the months and quarters ahead.
I would conclude by wishing you all good health in the time ahead as we contemplate hopefully moving past this challenging pandemic period.
Thank you for joining US today. This concludes today's conference you may disconnect your lines at this time.
Yeah.
Uh huh.
[music].
Uh huh.
[music].
Uh huh.
[music].