Q4 2021 Walker & Dunlop Inc Earnings Call

Speaker 1: Hosting the call today is Willie Walker, Walker & Dunlop Chairman and CEO . He's joined by C.C. about financial.

Hosting the call today is Willy Walker Walker, and Dunlop Chairman and CEO . He is joined by Steve Theobald Chief Financial Officer. Today's webcast is being recorded and a replay will be available via webcast on the Walker and Dunlop Investor Relations section of our web site.

Speaker 1: Today's webcast is being recorded and a replay will be available via webcast on the Walker Dunlop investor relations section of our website.

Speaker 1: At this time, all participants have been placed in a listen-only mode, and the floor will be open for your questions following the presentation. If you have dialed into the call and would like to ask a question at that time, please press star 9 on your touchtone phone. If you are accessing the webcast on your computer, please click the raise hand icon on the bottom menu bar of the webcast screen.

At this time, all participants have been placed in a listen only mode and the floor will be opened for your questions. Following the presentation. If you have dialed into the call and would like to ask a question at that time. Please press star <unk> on your Touchtone phone. If you are accessing the webcast on your computer. Please click the raise hand icon on the bottom menu bar of the webcast screen.

Speaker 1: This morning we posted our earnings release and presentation to the investor relations section of our website, www.walkardunlob.com. These slides serve as a reference point for some of what Willie and Steve will touch on during the call.

This morning, we posted our earnings release and presentation to the Investor Relations section of our website Www Dot Walker Dunlop Dot Com decides serve as a reference point for some of what Willy and Steve will touch on during the call.

Speaker 1: Please also note that we will reference the non-GAAP financial metric, adjusted EBITDA, and adjusted diluted earnings per share during the course of this call. Please refer to the appendix of the earnings presentation for reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial metrics.

Please also note that we will reference to non-GAAP financial metric adjusted EBITDA and adjusted diluted earnings per share during the course of this call.

Please refer to the appendix of the earnings presentation for a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial metrics.

Speaker 1: Investors are urged to carefully read the forward-looking statement language in our earnings release. Statements made on this call which are not historical facts may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

Investors are urged to carefully read the forward looking statements language in our earnings release statements made on this call, which are not historical facts may be deemed forward looking statements within the meaning of the private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1095.

Speaker 1: Or looking statements describe our current expectations and actual results may differ materially. Walkthrough and Dunlop is under no obligation to update or alter our forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise. And we expressly disclaim any obligation to do so.

Forward looking statements describe our current expectations and actual results may differ materially Walker and Dunlop is under no obligation to update or alter our forward looking statements, whether as a result of new information future events or otherwise and we expressly disclaim any obligation to do so more detailed.

Speaker 1: More detailed information about risk factors can be found in our annual and quarterly reports filed with the FCC. I will now turn the call over to Willie.

Information about risk factors can be found in our annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC.

I will now turn the call over to Willie.

Speaker 2: Thank you, Kelsey, and good morning, everyone. It's a pleasure to be doing this earnings call from Walker and Dunlop's new offices in New York City. We just.

Thank you Kelsey and good morning, everyone.

It's a pleasure to be doing this earnings call from Walker and Dunlop New offices in New York City.

Speaker 2: held our quarterly board meeting in our new corporate headquarters in Bethesda, Maryland. The building, our space, and the sense of community are truly spectacular. We decided to sign both leases in the depths of the pandemic when few others were committing to physical office space, and we are now benefiting from the collaboration, creativity, and teamwork that are happening daily in these two offices.

We just held our quarterly board meeting and our new corporate headquarters in Bethesda, Maryland to building our space in the sense of community are truly spectacular we decided to sign both leases in the depths of the pandemic when few others, we're committing to physical office space and we are now benefiting from the collaboration creative.

<unk> and teamwork that are happening daily in these two offices.

Speaker 2: Our continued investment in people, brand, and technology produce fantastic Q4 and full year financial results.

Our continued investment in people brand and technology produce fantastic Q4, and full year financial results.

Speaker 2: We generated total transaction volume of $27 billion, up 91% from last year.

We generated total transaction volume of $27 billion.

Up 91% from last year.

Speaker 2: Record transaction volume led to record quarterly revenues of $408 million, up 16% over last year, and diluted earnings per share of $2.42. What a quarter!

Record transaction volume led to record quarterly revenues of $408 million.

Up 16% over last year and diluted earnings per share of $2 42.

What a quarter.

Speaker 2: Yet amongst those fantastic results, the most noteworthy is adjusted EBITDA, up 89% to $110 million on the quarter due to our continued transformation of Walker & Dunlop from a mortgage-centric finance company into a technology-enabled financial services firm.

Yet amongst those fantastic results. The most noteworthy is adjusted EBITDA up 89% to $110 million on the quarter due to our continued transformation of Walker and Dunlop from a mortgage centric finance company into a technology enabled financial services firm.

Speaker 2: The services businesses we have been investing in over the past five years grew dramatically in Q4. Debt brokerage, where Walker and Dunlop acts as an intermediary between lenders and borrowers, increased total transaction volume by 237% in the quarter to $12.7 billion, our largest debt brokerage quarter in W&D's history by a wide margin.

The services businesses, we have been investing in over the past five years grew dramatically in Q4.

Net brokerage, where walker and Dunlop acts as an intermediary between lenders and borrowers increased total transaction volume by 237% in the quarter to $12 7 billion.

Our largest debt brokerage quarter in <unk> history by a wide margin.

Speaker 2: Property sales, where Walker and Dunlop acts as a broker between buyers and sellers of multi-family properties, grew to $9.3 billion during the quarter, up 226% over last year, and more volume in one quarter than we did in all of 2020.

Property sales, where Walker and Dunlop acts as a broker between buyers and sellers of multifamily properties grew to $9 $3 billion during the quarter up 226% over last year and more volume in one quarter than we did in all of 2020.

Speaker 2: These two services businesses accounted for over $20 billion of transaction volume in Q4, an incredible accomplishment and reflective of the talented professionals we have recruited to W&D, the brand we have built, and the implementation of valuable technology solutions.

These two services businesses accounted for over $20 billion of transaction volume in Q4, an incredible accomplishment and reflective of the talented professionals. We have recruited TWD. The brand we have built and the implementation of valuable technology solutions.

Speaker 2: Since we launched our Galaxy database in early 2020, we have been reporting to investors how this data tool has helped us grow both existing and new client relationships.

Since we launched our Galaxy database in early 2020, we have been reporting to investors. How this data tool has helped us grow both existing and new client relationships.

Speaker 2: This technology has given our bankers and brokers a true sales advantage and contributed to 75% of our refinancings in Q4 being new loans to Walker & Dunlop, and 37% of our total transaction volume in Q4 being done with new clients to W&D.

This technology has given our bankers and brokers are true sales advantage when contributed to 75% of our refinancings in Q4, being new loans to Walker and Dunlop and 37% of our total transaction volume in Q4 being done with new clients to WMD.

Speaker 2: For the full year, these technology efficacy numbers tell a similar story, with 71% of our refinancing being new loans to our portfolio and 30% of total transaction volume being done with new clients to walker and Dunlop.

For the full year. These technology efficacy numbers tell a similar story with 71% of our refinancings being new loans to our portfolio and 30% of total transaction volume being done with new clients to Walker and Dunlop.

Speaker 2: It is the combination of our talented bankers and brokers, brand and technology solutions that have driven these amazing results.

It is the combination of our talented bankers and brokers brand and technology solutions that have driven these amazing results.

Speaker 2: While we have grown our services businesses dramatically, we continue lending throughout the year and finish 2021 once again as Fannie Mae's largest multifamily lender and Freddie Mac's fourth largest partner.

While we have grown our services businesses dramatically, we continue lending throughout the year and finished 2021 once again as Fannie Mae's largest multifamily lender and Freddie Mac's fourth largest partner.

Speaker 2: We ended the year neck and neck with CBRE as two of the largest providers of capital to the multifamily industry. And with HUD, we had a strong fourth quarter and record year of lending originating $2.3 billion in mortgages, largely on affordable property.

We ended the year neck and neck with CBRE as two of the largest providers of capital to the multifamily industry.

And with HUD, we had a strong fourth quarter and record year of lending originating $2 3 billion in mortgages largely on affordable properties.

Speaker 2: Beyond the fantastic results of our core lending and services businesses, we made three highly strategic acquisitions during the year.

Beyond the fantastic results of our core lending and services businesses, we made three highly strategic acquisitions during the year.

Speaker 2: Zelman & Associates is our entry into market research and investment banking.

Zelman and associates is our entry into market research and investment banking.

Speaker 2: Gellman's industry leading housing focused research provides our bankers and brokers with market insights and intelligence that enhances their client relationship.

<unk> industry, leading housing focused research provides our bankers and brokers with market insights and intelligence that enhances their client relationships.

Speaker 2: It has been a true pleasure to have Ivy Zelman and her colleagues as part of the WMD team.

It has been a true pleasure to have Ivy Zelman and her colleagues as part of the WD team.

Speaker 2: TapCap was acquired to lay the foundation for automating our small balance loan quoting, underwriting, and closing processes.

Tap cap was acquired to lay the foundation for automating, our small balance loan quoting.

Underwriting and closing processes.

Speaker 2: We rolled out our small loan quote app in Q4 and are very pleased with TapCap's technology and our client engagement with the new app. Since its launch, our site has received over 18,000 views and we now have an email subscription list with nearly 50,000 current and prospective small loan customers.

We rolled out our small loan quote app in Q4 and are very pleased with <unk> technology, and our client engagement with the new App.

Since its launch our site has received over 18000 views and we now have an E mail subscription list with nearly 50000 current and prospective small loan customers.

Speaker 2: Finally, Alliant Capital is the largest and 14th acquisition in W&D's history that closed right at the end of 2021.

Finally, alliant capital as the largest and 14th acquisition in <unk> history that closed right at the end of 2021.

Speaker 2: We now have the full suite of services to be a powerhouse in the affordable housing industry, one of the fastest growing and most underserved sectors of the multifamily market.

We now have the full suite of services to be a powerhouse in the affordable housing industry, one of the fastest growing and most underserved sectors of the multifamily market.

Speaker 2: Sean Horwitz and the Alliant team have just started working at W&D, and it is a pleasure to have them with us.

Sean Horowitz and the alliance team have just started working with <unk> and it is a pleasure to have them with us.

Speaker 2: We are constantly focused on where we are going at Walker and Dunlop. And in a moment, I will run through the fantastic progress we have made in just one year towards achieving our five-year strategic growth plan called the Drive to 25.

We are constantly focused on where we are going at Walker and Dunlop and in a moment I will run through the fantastic progress. We have made in just one year towards achieving our five year strategic growth plan called the drive to 'twenty five.

Speaker 2: But given the changing economic landscape and investor questions about rising interest rates, inflation and major macroeconomic changes and how they will impact our business, I thought it would be instructive to look back for more.

But giving the chain, but given the changing economic landscape and investor questions about rising interest rates inflation and major macroeconomic changes and how they will impact our business I thought it would be instructive to look back for a moment.

Speaker 2: Over the past 10 years, we have had the 10-year Treasury at a low of 52 basis points and a high of 3.24%.

Over the past 10 years, we've had the 10 year treasury at a low of 52 basis points and a high of $3 two 4%.

Speaker 2: We've had the Dow Industrials close at a low of 10,655 and a high of 36,489. We've had three distinct presidential administrations, four acting and permanent directors of the Federal Housing Finance Administration, and three chairs of the Federal Reserve.

We've had the Dow industrials close at a low of 10655 and a high of 36489.

We've had three distinct presidential administrations for acting in permanent directors, the federal housing Finance administration, and three chairs and the federal reserve.

Speaker 2: And yet, as you can see on this slide, we have grown revenues at Walker from 152M.

And yet as you can see on this slide we have grown revenues at Walker and Dunlop from $152 million.

Speaker 2: to $1.26 billion, earnings per share from $1.60 to $8.15, and adjusted EDA from $32 million to $309 million over the past decade in a continuous, dramatic, and wildly consistent manner.

$212 6 billion.

Earnings per share from $1 60.

$8 15.

<unk> adjusted EBITDA from $32 million to $309 million over the past decade, and a continuous dramatic and wildly consistent manner.

Speaker 2: by investing in new services and technology-enabled businesses. We have a business model that allows us to grow dramatically in up markets and also provide countercyclical capital when the markets dislocate.

By investing in new services and technology enabled businesses, we have a business model that allows us to grow dramatically in up markets and also provide countercyclical capital when the markets dislocate.

Speaker 2: This has allowed revenues to grow at a compounding growth rate of 24% over the past decade.

This has allowed revenues to grow at a compound annual growth rate of 24% over the past decade.

Speaker 2: EPS at a compound annual growth rate of 18%, and EBITDA at a compound annual growth rate of 25%.

EPS at a compound annual growth rate of 18%.

And EBITDA at a compound annual growth rate of 25%.

Speaker 2: We have seen plenty of change over the past decade, including a pandemic that radically changed all of our lives. Yet throughout W&D's performance has been both incredibly consistent and dramatic in terms of growth and financial performance.

We've seen plenty of change over the past decade, including a pandemic that radically changed all of our lives yet throughout <unk> performance has been both incredibly consistent and dramatic in terms of growth and financial performance.

So now looking forward.

Speaker 2: The five-year, highly ambitious strategic growth plans we launched last year, the drive to 25, has an overreaching goal of doubling revenues from $1 billion in 2020 to $2 billion by 2025.

The five year highly ambitious strategic growth plans, we launched last year to drive the 25 as an overreaching goal of doubling revenues from $1 billion in 2000 $20 billion to $2 billion by 2025 or.

Speaker 2: Our progress towards the drive to 25 after only 1 year is simply fantastic.

Our progress towards the drive the 25 after only one year is simply fantastic.

Speaker 2: We set a goal to grow our debt financing volumes to $65 billion by 2025. And in 2021, we increased it by 40% to $49 billion. In property sales, we set a goal to grow to $25 billion by 2025. And in just one year grew volumes by 214% to $19 billion.

We set a goal to grow our debt financing volumes to $65 billion by 2025 and in 2021, we increased it by 40% to $49 billion.

And property sales, we set a goal to grow to $25 billion by 2025 and in just one year grew volumes by 214% to.

$19 billion.

Speaker 2: Our loan servicing portfolio ended 2020 at $107 billion, and we finished 2021 at $116 billion, 8% growth, which is what we need to maintain to achieve our Drive to 25 goal of $160 billion.

Our loan servicing portfolio ended 2020 at $107 billion and we finished 2021 at 116 billion, 8% growth, which is what we need to maintain to achieve our drive to 'twenty five goal of $160 billion.

Speaker 2: Finally, we ended 2020 with $1.8 billion of assets under management.

Finally, we ended 2020 with $1 8 billion.

Of assets under management.

Speaker 2: We set the ambitious goal to grow AUM to 10 billion by 2025. And with the acquisition of Alliant Capital added $14 billion of assets under management and achieved our Drive to 25 goal in 2021.

We set the ambitious goal to grow AUM to $10 billion by 2025, and with the acquisition of Alliant capital added $14 billion of assets under management and achieved our drive to 'twenty five goal in 2021.

Speaker 2: Beyond these financial metrics, the drive to 25 contains ambitious environmental, social, and governance goals, including quantitative goals to increase diversity, equity, and inclusion at W&D.

Beyond these financial metrics the drive to 'twenty five contains ambitious environmental social and governance goals, including quantitative goals to increase diversity equity and inclusion at WMD.

Speaker 2: WND is in a select group of companies that published ambitious quantitative DE&I goals, which are tied to senior executive compensation in our 2021 proxy state.

<unk> in a select group of companies that published ambitious quantitative D. Eni goals, which are tied to senior executive compensation and our 2021 proxy statements.

Speaker 2: W&D was also just added to the 2022 Bloomberg Gender Equity Index, which puts us among only 418 publicly traded companies in the world to be featured on this prestigious gender-focused index.

<unk> was also just added to the 2020 to Bloomberg gender equity index, which puts us among only 418 publicly traded companies in the world to be featured on this prestigious gender focused index.

Speaker 2: And while we still have a long way to go to make W&D and our industry more diverse and equitable, we were ranked number 13 on the Washington Business Journal's Corporate Diversity Index for large companies, putting us high in the ranks with some incredibly large and diverse DC-based companies that share our commitment to diversity and inclusion.

And while we still have a long way to go to make WMD and our industry more diverse and equitable. We were ranked number 13 on the Washington business Journal's corporate diversity index for large companies, putting us high in the ranks with some incredibly large and diverse DC based companies that share our commitment to diversity and inclusion.

Speaker 2: Finally, W&D once again was recognized as a great place to work by Fortune magazine, making that eight out of the last 10 years we've made that list. I have always said being a great place to work is the most important honor we can receive, for if you have a great place to work, the financial results will follow, and follow they have.

Finally, <unk> once again was recognized as a great place to work by Fortune magazine, making that eight out of the last 10 years. We've made that list I have always said being a great place to work is the most important honor. We can receive for if you have a great place to work the financial results will follow and follow they have.

Speaker 2: I'll now turn the call over to Steve to provide more detail on our fourth quarter and full year financial performance. And I'll then come back to discuss our outlook for the future. Steve. Thank you.

I'll now turn the call over to Steve to provide more detail on our fourth quarter and full year financial performance and I'll, then come back to discuss our outlook for the future Steve.

Thank you Willy and good morning, everyone.

Speaker 3: 2021 ended with very strong transaction volumes, solid earnings, and record adjusted EBITDA.

<unk> 2021 ended with very strong transaction volumes solid earnings and record adjusted EBITDA.

Speaker 3: In the fourth quarter, we recognized record total transaction volume of $27 billion of 91% year-over-year, which drove a 16% increase in total revenues to $407 million.

In the fourth quarter, we recognized record total transaction volume of 27 billion.

Of 91% year over year, which drove a 16% increase in total revenues to $407 million.

Speaker 3: For the full year total transaction volume was 68 billion up a phenomenal 66% from 2020.

For the full year total transaction volume was 68 billion up a phenomenal 66% from 2020.

Speaker 3: 2021 revenues totaled $1.3 billion, an increase of 16% over the prior year.

2021 revenues totaled $1 3 billion.

An increase of 16% over the prior year.

As we look ahead to 2022, the strength of the commercial real estate market and growth in the WNBA brand and sales force set the stage for continued growth and diversification of our business.

Speaker 3: Q4 transaction volume was driven by debt brokerage and property sales volumes, which were up 237% and 226% respectively from the same quarter last year.

Q4 transaction volume was driven by debt brokerage and property sales volumes, which were up 237% and 226% respectively from the same quarter last year.

Speaker 3: The growth in our servicing portfolio, which ended the year with $116 billion of loans and a weighted average servicing fee of 24.9 basis points, generated $73 million of cash servicing fees in the fourth quarter, up 15% over Q420.

The growth in our servicing portfolio, which ended the year with $116 billion of loans at a weighted average servicing fee of $24 nine basis points generated $73 million of cash servicing fees in the fourth quarter up 15% over Q4 'twenty.

Speaker 3: The increase in cash fees generated by debt brokerage, property sales, and servicing drove quarterly adjusted EBITDA to $110 million, up 89% year over year.

The increase in cash fees generated by debt brokerage property sales and servicing drove quarterly adjusted EBITDA to $110 million up 89% year over year.

Speaker 3: For the full year loan origination, property sales, and servicing fees were up a combined 33% from 2020, driving 43% growth and adjusted EBITDA to $309 million, crushing our goal of double digit EBITDA growth for the year.

For the full year loan origination property sales and servicing fees were up a combined 33% from 2020, driving 43% growth in adjusted EBITDA to $309 million crushing our goal of double digit EBITDA growth for the year.

Speaker 3: Q4 diluted earnings per share of $2.42 was down 7% year over year reflecting the decline from last year's massive quarter of GSE lending volume.

Q4 diluted earnings per share of $2 42.

<unk> was down 7% year over year, reflecting the decline from last year's massive quarter of GSE lending volumes.

Speaker 3: 2021 diluted EPS of $8.15 was up 6% over 2020, slightly higher than the projections we provided during our last two earnings call.

2021 diluted EPS of $8 15.

<unk> was up 6% over 2020 slightly higher than the projections, we provided during our last two earnings calls.

Speaker 3: Due to the significant growth in EBITDA as we shift our business mix from lending centric to services centric, we are introducing an adjusted EPS metric this quarter that excludes the impacts on earnings of non-cash MSR gains, amortization and depreciation, provision for credit losses and stock compensation.

Due to the significant growth in EBITDA as we shift our business mix from London centric to services centric. We are introducing an adjusted EPS metric this quarter that excludes the impact on earnings of noncash MSR gains amortization and depreciation provision for credit losses and stock compensation.

Speaker 3: This non-GAAP metric should be useful in evaluating the cash generation capabilities of our business by eliminating the impact of the revenues and expenses associated with mortgage servicing Right this is their daily study yesterday.

non-GAAP metric should be useful in evaluating the cash generation capabilities of our business by eliminating the impact of the revenues and expenses associated with mortgage servicing rights.

Speaker 3: For Q4 of 2021, the adjusted earnings per share was $2.25, compared to $0.69 in the fourth quarter of last year.

For Q4 of 2021, the adjusted earnings per share was $2 25.

Compared to the 69 in the fourth quarter of last year.

Speaker 3: For all of 2021, adjusted earnings per share was $6.51 compared to $3.84 in 2020.

For all of 2021 adjusted earnings per share was $6 51.

Compared to $3 84 and 2020.

Speaker 3: Historically, as you can see on slide 11, adjusted EPS has tracked closely with our adjusted EBITDA and is strongest in years with high cash revenues, including loan origination and property sales fees, escrow earnings, and services.

Historically as you can see on slide 11, adjusted EPS has tracked closely with our adjusted EBITDA and our strongest in years with high cash revenues, including loan origination and property sales fees escrow earnings and servicing fees.

Speaker 3: Q4 personnel expense as a percentage of revenues was 48%, up from 45% in the fourth quarter of 2020, largely due to increases in commission expense.

Q4 personnel expense as a percentage of revenues was 48% up from 45% in the fourth quarter of 2020, largely due to increases in commission expense.

Speaker 3: commissions represented 62% of all personnel expenses in Q4 of 2021, compared to just 53% of all personnel expenses in Q4 of last year, due to our dramatic growth in transaction volume.

Commissions represented 62% of all personnel expenses in Q4 of 2021 compared to just 53% of all personnel expenses in Q4 of last year due to our dramatic growth in transaction volumes.

Speaker 3: For the full year, personnel expenses and percentage of revenues was 48%, up from 43% in 2020.

For the full year personnel expense as a percentage of revenues was 48% up from 43% in 2020.

Speaker 3: Along with the year over year increase in commissions expense, our elevated 2021 personnel expense ratio reflects our investments and people to launch and acquire new businesses and continue expanding our product office.

Along with the year over year increase in commissions expense, our elevated 2021 personnel expense ratio reflects our investments in people to launch and acquire new businesses and continue expanding our product offerings.

Speaker 3: Staying with expenses, fourth quarter other operating expenses increased year over year by $14.3 million primarily due to two one-time charges.

Staying with expenses fourth quarter other operating expenses increased year over year by $14 3 million.

Primarily due to two one time charges.

Speaker 3: The first was a $2.7 million write-off of the deferred issuance costs related to our original Senior Secured Term Loan that we paid off in mid-December in conjunction with the Align Act.

The first with the $2 $7 million write off of the deferred issuance costs related to our original senior secured term loan that we paid off in mid December in conjunction with the alliance acquisition.

Speaker 3: The second one time expense was a seven million dollar earnout related to the acquisition of the noncontrolling interest in Walker and Dunlop investment fail.

The second one time expense was $7 million earn out related to the acquisition of the Noncontrolling interest in Walker and Dunlop investment sales.

Speaker 3: Due to the incredible performance of our investment sales team, this earn-out was achieved well ahead of schedule. There will be no additional expense for this earn-out going forward as the team has earned the entire amount.

Due to the incredible performance of our investment sales team. This earn out was achieved well ahead of schedule.

There will be no additional expense for this or not going forward as the team has earned the entire amount.

Speaker 3: Q4 operating margin was 27%, down from 34% in the prior year due to the shift from a huge quarter of non-cash mortgage servicing rights last year to cash revenues from our servicing businesses this year, as well as the previously mentioned one-time expenses incurred during the quarter. Q5 operating margin was 27%, down from 34% in the prior year due to the shift from a huge quarter to cash revenues from our servicing businesses this year.

Q4, operating margin was 27% down from 34% in the prior year due to the shift from a huge quarter of noncash mortgage servicing rights last year to cash revenues from our servicing businesses. This year as well as the previously mentioned onetime expenses incurred during the quarter.

Speaker 3: Those one-time expenses accounted for 200 basis points of operating margin. So without them, the operating margin would have been 29% in the quarter.

Those onetime expenses accounted for 200 basis points of operating margin so without them. The operating margin would have been 29% in the quarter.

Speaker 3: Full year operating margin was twenty eight percent just outside of our annual target range of twenty nine to thirty two percent.

Full year operating margin was 28% just outside of our annual target range of 29% to 32%.

Speaker 3: Return on equity for the quarter was 23%, bringing our ROE to 21% for the year within our annual target range of 19 to 22%.

Return on equity for the quarter was 23%, bringing our ROE to 21% for the year within our annual target range of 19% to 22%.

Speaker 3: With the strong growth in our core products and the acquisitions we have completed over the past year, we are establishing 2022 financial guidance of double digit revenue growth, double digit earnings per share growth, and double digit growth in adjusted EBITDA.

With the strong growth in our core products and the acquisitions, we've completed over the past year, we are establishing 2022 financial guidance of double digit revenue growth.

Double digit earnings per share growth and double digit growth in adjusted EBITDA.

Speaker 3: Due to the transition of our business from lending centric to more services driven and the investments we are making in our emerging technology enabled platforms, we are establishing an operating margin range of 26 to 29% for the coming year, and we are establishing an annual return on equity target range at 19 to 22%.

Due to the transition of our business from London centric to more services, driven and the investments we're making in our emerging technology enabled platforms. We are establishing an operating margin range of 26%, 29% for the coming year and we are establishing an annual return on equity target range at 19% to 22%.

Speaker 3: There are several factors in our 2022 outlook that are important to mention.

There are several factors in our 2022 outlook that are important dimension.

Speaker 3: As we saw in 2021, the growth in our services businesses is driving cash revenues and cash earnings, pushing EBITDA to record levels. This trend should continue in 2022, yet if our GSE lending volumes expand significantly due to the increased lending caps, we could see increased non-cash revenues from mortgage servicing rights and a result in the increase in operating.

As we saw in 2021 the growth in our services businesses is driving cash revenues in cash earnings pushing EBITDA to record levels. This.

This trend should continue in 2022, yet if our GSE lending volumes expand significantly due to the increased lending caps, we could see increased noncash revenues for mortgage servicing rights and a resulting increase in operating margin.

Speaker 3: There's also revenue and margin upside from increases in the earnings rates on 3.7 billion dollars of escrow.

There is also revenue and margin upside from increases in the earnings rates on our $3 7 billion of <unk> growth in.

Speaker 3: In 2019, prior to the pandemic, we earned $56 million on our escrow deposit.

In 2019 prior to the pandemic, we earned $56 million on our escrow deposits.

Speaker 3: due to the dramatic drop in rates over the past two years, we only earned $8 million on these deposits in 2021.

Due to the dramatic drop in rates over the past two years, we only earned $8 million on these deposits in 2021.

Speaker 3: As rates move back up, we will earn more from our escrows. Every 25 basis point increase in the deposit rate translates into approximately $9 million of additional pretax earnings per year. We ended the year with $300,000 in total.

As rates move back up we will learn more from our S. Grows every 25 basis point increase in the deposit rate translates into approximately $9 million of additional pretax earnings per year.

We ended the year with $306 million of cash on the balance sheet as.

Speaker 3: As we saw from the market receptivity to our new debt offering in December , our current strong capital position and cash generation give us the ability to supplement our cash on hand with additional debt to continue pursuing acquisitions and recruiting top banking and brokerage talent to WMD.

As we saw from the market receptivity to our new debt offering in December our current strong capital position and cash generation give us the ability to supplement our cash on hand with additional debt to continue pursuing acquisitions and recruiting top banking and brokerage talent TWD.

Speaker 3: We ended the year with a debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio of 2.4 times. And based on our expectations for EBITDA growth and deleveraging, we expect that this will drop below 2 sometime in 2022.

We ended the year with a debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio of two four times and based on our expectations for EBITDA growth and deleveraging. We expect that this will drop below two sometime in 2022.

Speaker 3: Our strong results also allow us to continue increasing the quarterly dividends.

Our strong results also allow us to continue increasing the quarterly dividend.

Speaker 3: Yesterday our board of directors approved a quarterly dividend of 60 cents per share, a 20% increase in revenue.

Yesterday, our board of directors approved a quarterly dividend of <unk> 60 per share a 20% increase.

Speaker 3: This is our fourth annual increase since we initiated the dividend in February of 2018 at 25 cents per share. That's a cumulative increase of one-

This is our fourth annual increase since we initiated the dividend in February of 2018 at 25 per share.

Thats accumulative increase of 140%.

Speaker 3: The current annualized dividend of $2.40 per share represents a payout ratio of 29% on 2021 net income and 25% of 2021 adjusted EBITDA levels that enable us to continue growing the dividend while retaining sufficient capital to continue investing in future growth.

The current annualized dividend of $2 40 per share represents a payout ratio of 29% on 2021 net income and 25% of 2021, adjusted EBITDA levels that enable us to continue growing the dividend, while retaining sufficient capital to continue investing in the future growth of the company.

Speaker 3: 2021 was a transformative year for Walker and Dunlop as we continued investing in people, brand, and technology, saw the investments we have made in debt brokerage and property sales grow more dramatically than ever, and made tremendous progress towards the achievement of the drive to 25.

2021, with the transformative year for Walker and Dunlop as we continued investing in people brand and technology. So all the investments we have made in that brokerage and property sales grow dramatically more dramatically than ever.

And made tremendous progress towards the achievement of the drive to 'twenty five.

Speaker 3: Our current financial position is extremely strong, giving us the ability to continue investing in our new businesses to expand our product offerings, while leveraging our leadership position in the debt financing and property sales markets to deliver strong financial results in 2022 and beyond. Thank you for your time this morning, and I'll now turn the call back over to...

Our current financial position is extremely strong, giving us the ability to continue investing in our new businesses to expand our product offerings, while leveraging our leadership position in the debt financing and property sales markets to deliver strong financial results and 2022 and beyond.

Thank you for your time this morning, and I'll now turn the call back over to Willie.

Thank you Steve.

Speaker 2: As Steve just outlined, our financial performance and transition from a mortgage-centric finance company into a technology-enabled financial services firm is driving cash earnings.

As Steve just outlined our financial performance and transition from a mortgage centric finance company into a technology enabled financial services firm is driving cash earnings strong EBITDA growth and the ability to continue investing in our people brand and technology.

Speaker 2: strong EBITDA growth, and the ability to continue investing in our people, brand, and technology.

Speaker 2: More and more clients are looking to W&D to meet their wide range of commercial real estate needs. And as huge amounts of global capital look to invest in U.S. commercial real estate, the growth opportunities for our fantastic company are almost limitless.

More and more clients are looking at <unk> to meet their wide range of commercial real estate needs and is a huge amount of global capital look to invest in U S. Commercial real estate the growth opportunities for our fantastic company are almost limitless.

Speaker 2: During a recent Walker webcast, Dr. Peter Lineman stated, quote, we are in a golden age for multifamily, unquote.

During a recent Walker webcast Dr. Peter Linneman stated quote we are in a golden age for multifamily unquote.

Speaker 2: We extract strong macro market dynamics and multifamily for the next several years. Limited new supply, strong rent growth, an active buyer and seller market, and relatively low interest rates to support the refinancing and acquisitions markets. Multifamily after enduring the great financial crisis and global pandemic exceptionally well.

We extract strong macro market dynamics in multifamily for the next several years limited new supply strong rent growth and active buyer and seller market and relatively low interest rates to support the refinancing and acquisitions markets.

Multifamily after enduring the great financial crisis, and global pandemic exceptionally well.

Speaker 2: is viewed by many as a proxy for fixed income with the opportunity to generate alpha from operational excellence and potential cap rate compression.

Is viewed by many as a proxy for fixed income with the opportunity to generate alpha from operational excellence and potential cap rate compression in.

Speaker 2: In a yield starved world, with inflationary pressures, investing in multifamily assets and more broadly commercial real estate is at the top of every large institutional investor's wish list.

In a yield starved world inflationary with inflationary pressures investing in multifamily assets and more broadly commercial real estate is at the top of every large institutional investors wishlist.

Speaker 2: and is one of the largest lenders and service providers to the multifamily industry, Walker & Dunlop is very well positioned to grow transaction volumes and revenues over the coming years.

And as one of the largest lenders and service providers to the multifamily industry Walker and Dunlop is very well positioned to grow transaction volumes and revenues over the coming years.

Speaker 2: The acquisition of Alliant Capital expands our presence in the affordable housing industry dramatically, giving us confidence that we will grow our lending volumes at the GSEs in 2022.

The acquisition of Alliant capital expands our presence in the affordable housing industry dramatically.

Giving us confidence that we will grow our lending volumes with the Gse's in 2022.

Speaker 2: The GSE should have a new permanent FHFA director soon, and she has increased their annual lending caps and allowed the GSEs to get back to business, albeit with a continued focus on the future.

The GSE should have a new permanent FHFA director soon and she is increase their annual lending caps and allowed the gse's to get back to business.

Albeit with a continued focus on affordable lending with.

Speaker 2: With the ability to now syndicate tax credits and continue providing GSE and HUD debt, Walker Knob's affordable bankers and brokers now have a full suite of services to meet our clients needs and grow transaction volumes.

With the ability to now syndicate tax credits and continue providing GSE and HUD debt Walker <unk> affordable bankers and brokers now have a full suite of services to meet our clients' needs and grow transaction volumes and alliance development and investment partners over the past 20 years provide a wealth of new.

Speaker 2: and alliance development and investment partners over the past 20 years provide a wealth of new relationships that should become W&D clients.

That should become WMD clients.

Speaker 2: The growth in our multifamily property sales business in 2021 was simply astounding.

The growth in our multifamily property sales business in 2021 was simply astounding.

Speaker 2: Its leader, Chris Mickelson, has built piece by piece the very best multifamily investment sales team in the industry. And yet Chris and his team aren't done yet.

Its leader, Chris Nicholson has built piece by piece, the very best multifamily investment sales team in the industry.

And yet Chris and his team arent done yet.

Speaker 2: We currently have multifamily investment sales teams in 18 of the 20 most actively traded MSAs in the United States, having just added talent in Michigan and Northern California.

We currently have multifamily investment sales teams in 18 of the 20, most actively traded msas in the United States, having just added talent in Michigan and Northern California.

Speaker 2: We will continue growing into new MSAs while also adding brokers and specialty products, such as the four-point team we acquired in 2021 for student housing, the seniors housing team we added last year in Chicago, and our current focus on affordable and manufactured housing.

We will continue growing into new Msas, while also adding brokers and specialty products such as the four point team. We acquired in 2021 for student housing the seniors housing team, we added last year in Chicago, and our current focus on affordable and manufactured housing.

Speaker 2: As we have shown by being Fannie Mae's largest multifamily lending partner for seven of the last 10 years, there is always the opportunity to add talented bankers and brokers to expand market share in the vast multifamily landscape.

As we have shown by being Fannie Maes largest multifamily lending partner for seven of the last 10 years. There is always the opportunity to add talented bankers and brokers to expand market share in the vast multifamily landscape.

Speaker 2: Outside of multifamily, the opportunities for growth are numerous.

Outside of multifamily the opportunities for growth are numerous while our mortgage banking volumes in 2021 were truly fantastic we need to do more in office retail industrial and hospitality.

Speaker 2: While our mortgage banking volumes in 2021 were truly fantastic, we need to do more in office, retail, industrial, and hospitality.

Speaker 2: There are two main reasons our expanded team of mortgage bankers doesn't do more commercial lending.

There are two main reasons, our expanded team of mortgage bankers doesn't do more commercial lending.

Speaker 2: The Wuckernot brand in multifamily is exceedingly strong and drives outsize multifamily origination volumes and our lack of investment sales capabilities in the other asset classes.

The Walker not brand in multifamily is exceedingly strong and drives outsized multifamily origination volumes.

And our lack of investment sales capabilities in the other asset classes.

Speaker 2: We will focus over the coming years in expanding our lending activities on non-multi-family commercial assets and building out investment sales groups in office, retail, hospitality, and industrial. While nothing is easy, these are logical expansions of Walker & Dunlop service offering that will drive increased transaction volumes and revenue.

We will focus over the coming years in expanding our lending activities on non multifamily commercial assets and building out investment sales groups in office retail hospitality and industrial.

While nothing is easy these are logical expansions of Walker and Dunlop service offering that will drive increased transaction volumes and revenues.

Speaker 2: Technology is driving the growth of Walker & Dunlop, as well as two of our emerging businesses.

Technology is driving the growth of Walker and Dunlop as well as two of our emerging businesses, our automated appraisal business surprise and our small balance lending platform WD Express.

Speaker 2: our automated appraisal business surprise, and our small balanced lending platform, WD Express.

Speaker 2: We continue to work closely with our dynamic and insightful joint venture partner, GeoFi, to grow APPRISE and apply their technology and data analytics capabilities to other areas of our business, including WD Express.

We continue to work closely with our dynamic and insightful joint venture partner <unk> to grow apprised and apply their technology and data analytics capabilities to other areas of our business, including WD Express.

Speaker 2: We continue to develop technology that underpins these two emerging businesses, which are both extremely important to our future growth.

We continue to develop technology that underpins. These two emerging businesses, which are both extremely important to our future growth.

Speaker 2: Before I wrap up the call, I want to put W&D's fantastic growth into a broader context.

Before I wrap up the call I want to put wmd's fantastic growth into a broader context.

Speaker 2: In a recent Washington Business Journal ranking of DC-based companies, Walker & Dunlop was listed as the 37th largest company based on total revenue.

In a recent Washington business Journal ranking of DC based companies Walker and Dunlop was listed as the 37th largest company based on total revenues.

Speaker 2: Yet our five year total shareholder return is number one for the top 50 public companies.

Yet our five year total shareholder return is number one.

For the top 50 public companies on that list.

Speaker 2: Better than Marriott, better than Lockheed Martin, better than Carlisle, and even better than Coastar.

Better than Marriott better than Lockheed Martin better than Carlisle, and even better than Costar.

Speaker 2: And if you look at Walker and Dunlop's five-year total shareholder return compared to the five FAANG stocks, only Apple feeds W&D.

And if you look at Walker and Dunlop five year total shareholder return compared to the five bank stocks only Apple Beach WMD.

Speaker 2: Think about that for a moment. Those five stocks are the most technologically sophisticated mega cap companies on earth. And yet W&D has outperformed four of the five over a five year period due to our team's track record of delivering consistent outperforming growth year in and year out.

Think about that for a moment those five stocks are the most technologically sophisticated mega cap companies on Earth and yet <unk> has outperformed for the five over a five year period due to our team's track record of delivering consistent outperforming growth year in and year out.

Speaker 2: And what is most exciting is that W&D now has the brand and scale to grow even faster.

And what is most exciting is that <unk> now has the brand and scale to grow even faster.

2021 was an exceptional year.

The year began with investors and capital returning to the commercial real estate markets with a vengeance and our investments in people brand and technology generated record transaction volume record revenues and record earnings and explosive EBITDA growth due to the transformation of our business for lending centric to services Center.

Speaker 2: And all of this for a firm of only 1,300 people with average revenue per employee of over $1 million and the cash flow to continue investing in people, brand, technology, and growth.

And all of this for a firm of only 3500 people with average revenue per employee of over $1 million and the cash flow to continue investing in people brand technology and growth.

Speaker 2: I often talk about the pride I take in leading this incredible company. And what amazes me is that when I reach a certain level of pride, the team invariably takes their game to the next level. Thank you to every member of the WMD team for such a successful 2021. The year was a fantastic start to the drive to 25. And given the growth in our client base and brand, there is no reason we will not continue to knock down the various components of the plan and achieve our strategic and financial goals over the next four years.

I often talk about the <unk> taken leading this incredible company and what Amazes me is that when I reach a certain level of pride the team and variably takes their game to the next level. Thank.

Thank you to every member of the WD team for such a successful 2021.

The year was a fantastic start to the drive to 'twenty five.

And given the growth in our client base and brand. There is no reason, we will not continue to knock down the various components of the plan and achieve our strategic and financial goals over the next four years.

Speaker 2: I want to thank everyone for joining us this morning, and I'll now turn the call over to Kelsey to open the lines for any questions.

I want to thank everyone for joining us this morning, and I'll now turn the call over to Kelcey to open the lines for any questions.

Speaker 1: The floor is now open for questions. At this time, if you have a question on the phone, please press star nine, or if you're on your computer, please click the raise hand icon at the bottom of your webcast screen.

The floor is now open for questions. At this time, if you have a question on the phone. Please press star nine or if you are on your computer. Please click the raise hand icon at the bottom of your webcast screen.

Speaker 1: The first question is coming from Henry Coffee of Wedbush Securities. Henry?

The first question is coming from Henry Coffey of Wedbush Securities Henry.

Speaker 4: Henry, we don't have you yet. There we have. No, I just got the, I just got the unmute signal. Yes, good morning. Congratulations on a great quarter and an insanely fantastic year. This is another one of those quarters where to really grab the growth, we need to jump over to the adjusted EBITDA number. And obviously, your focus on adjusted earnings per share will help amplify that. When we look at the

Andrew We don't have yes, yes, yes no.

I just thought the I just got the unmet signal.

Yes, good morning, congratulations on a great quarter, and then it seemed like fantastic year.

This is another one of those quarters, where it really grab the growth we need to jump over to adjust.

Adjusted EBITDA number and obviously your focus on adjusted earnings per share will will help amplify that.

When we look at the.

Speaker 4: transaction volume and the brokerage, the brokered part, how much of that was multifamily?

Transaction volume in the brokerage.

Brokerage part how much of that was multifamily.

Speaker 4: how much of that was outside of the multifamily universe.

How much of that was was outside of the multifamily universe.

Speaker 2: You know, I haven't I haven't drilled into that number Henry, but I'm going to swag it somewhere north of Right about probably I would from his history at 75 to 80 percent of that brokerage volume is multi Um Steve you got am I am I off on that? I think I'm directly correct there Yeah, you are. Yeah, we can get the actual number to you Henry, but it's about three quarters multi and about a quarter commercial

I haven't I haven't drilled into that number Henry but im going to swag, it somewhere north of <unk> <unk> from <unk>.

History at 75% to 80% of that brokerage volume is multi Steve you got am I off on that I think I'm Directionally correct there.

Yes, we can get the actual number to you Henry but it's about three quarters, multi and about a quarter commercial.

Speaker 4: And then really to understand Alliant, in terms of the targeted goals, I'm assuming that factors in Alliant for this year as well?

And then really understand alliance.

What in terms of the targeted goals I'm, assuming that that that factors in alliance for this year as well or.

Speaker 3: for 2022, Henry? Yes. Yes, it does.

For 2022, Henry Yes, yes, it does.

Speaker 4: So how does that business really work? Uh, do the lending opportunities come at the front end of the transactions? Do the sales come at the backend? How does that business, in addition to generating...

How does that business really work.

So the lending opportunities come at the front end of the transactions through the sales come at the backend.

How does that business in addition to generating.

Speaker 4: tax related credit commissions? I don't know if that's how that what they describe them as but in addition to any kind of commissions from the from tax credit placement, how does the business work for WD in terms of loans and property sales opportunities?

Tax related.

Credit Commission size I don't know if thats, how about what they describe the mezz, but.

In addition to any kind of commissions from the.

Tax credit placement.

Does the business work for WD in terms of loans and property sales opportunities.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Henry, there's two the two primary revenue streams for Alliant are, as you point out, fees earned off the syndication process. So as you know, new funds are raised and investments are closed into those funds.

Yes, I think Henry the two the two primary revenue streams for Alliant are as you pointed out.

These earned off the syndication process so.

As new.

New funds are raised and investments are closed into those funds.

Speaker 3: There's upfront fees are paid to Alliant for providing that execution. And then asset management fees are earned over time and a significant portion of them are collected on the back end as the properties are disposed of.

Theres a upfront fees are paid to.

Two alliance for providing that.

Execution, and then asset management fees are earned over time.

And a significant portion of them are collected on.

On the back end is as the properties are disposed of.

Speaker 3: So that's the second key component of the revenue base there. In terms of benefit to our core business in the investment sales and the financing side, as we discussed in our initial call about Alliant back in the fall, in our model, we did not assume any synergies from on the revenue side from.

So that's the.

The second component of key component of the revenue base there.

In terms of.

Benefit to our core business.

<unk>.

The investment sales and the financing side as we discussed in our <unk>.

Initial call about alignment back in the fall in our model, we do not assume any synergies from on the revenue side from <unk>.

Speaker 3: from those opportunities in the first year. However, we are building a pipeline of both debt financing opportunities, as well as investment sales opportunities that we should be able to execute on in 2022.

From those opportunities in the first year. However, we are building a pipeline of.

Both debt financing opportunities as well as investment sales opportunities that we.

We should be able to execute on in 2022.

Speaker 3: obviously backed it into our guidance for the year. And in addition, we've been able to send some opportunities to the alliance side for new tax credit investments as well.

Obviously factored into our guidance for the year and.

And in addition, we've been able to send some opportunities to the alliance side for new tax credit investments as well.

Speaker 4: Great, just one more question in the single family.

Great and just one more question in the single family and build to rent and manufactured housing area. These are sort of two.

Speaker 4: and build to rent and manufactured housing area. These are sort of new areas in the housing equation for you all. How are those businesses developing? What should we expect in the future? And with that, after that, I'll just get off and listen to the answer. And thank you again for a great year and take you to my question.

New areas in the housing equation for you all.

Uh huh.

How are those businesses.

The thing what.

Should we expect in the future and with that after that I'll, just get off and listen to the answer and thank you again for a great year and taking my questions and thanks for your interests as Steve you want to go on to <unk> I can answer it but you can you can pick it up but youre going there. So Henry I would put it this way we have a great team.

Speaker 2: Henry, thanks for your interest. Steve, you want to go on to BFR SFR? I can answer it, but go ahead. You can take that one. I thought you were going there. So Henry, I would put it this way. We have a great team. I think probably the best team in the industry focused on BFR SFR financing. And coming out of 2020 into 2021, the pipeline was strong, but the number of deals that actually got funded during the year was...

Probably the best team in the industry focused on <unk> financing.

And coming out of 2020 into 'twenty, one the pipeline was strong but the number of deals that actually got funded during the year was less than anticipated I would say with the growth of the pipeline 2022.

Speaker 2: less than anticipated, I would say with the growth of the pipeline 2022 will be the year that the actual fee generation starts to happen. So feeling a lot better right now about our team that's focused on that space and the pipeline that they've built up. But you accurately point out, SFRBFR is a extremely hot space in the housing market and a lot of our institutional clients are focused on it and putting money to work there.

We will be the year that the actual fee generation starts to happen. So feeling a lot better right now about our team that's focused on that space and the pipeline that they've built up.

But as you accurately point out <unk> is a extremely hot space in the housing market and a lot of our institutional clients are focused on it and putting money to work there.

Okay.

Speaker 1: Great. Our next question will come from Jade Romani of KVW. Jade.

Our next question will come from Jade Rahmani of kw.

Speaker 5: Thank you very much. Can you hear me? Yeah. We can.

<unk>.

Thank you very much can you hear me yes.

Speaker 5: Okay, great. I'm a scholar-corder from my perspective and pleased to see the introduction of adjusted EPS, which is a metric we've always looked at just modeling the cash or a proxy for cash earnings.

We can.

Okay great.

Solid quarter from my perspective been pleased to see the introduction of adjusted EPS, which is a metric we've always looked at.

Just modeling the cash.

Or a proxy for cash earnings.

Speaker 5: I guess first question would be client sentiment, Willy, given the increasingly uncertain outlook with respect to the impact of rising rates and the magnitude of rising rates?

I guess first question would be client sentiment Willy.

Given that the.

Increasingly uncertain outlook with respect to the impact of rising rates and the magnitude of rising rates.

Speaker 6: Have institutional investors to your sense reacted at all to this? Has it changed people's outlook in terms of deploying capital?

Institutional investors tier.

<unk> reacted at all to this hasnt changed People's outlook in terms of deploying capital.

Speaker 2: Uh, Jade, all I can do is look at what we're seeing every day as it relates to our pipeline, as well as having been at the National Multifamily Housing Council meeting down in Orlando, Florida, a week before last, where I met with

Jade all I can do is look at what we're seeing every day as it relates to our pipeline as well as having been at the National multifamily housing Council meeting down in Orlando, Florida week, before last where I met with.

Speaker 2: I can't, you know, dozens of clients. Uh, and it was from one suite to the next. With we've got more capital deployed than we have opportunities to deploy it on show us product. Uh, we love the markets. We love the asset class and we want to put more capital to work.

Dozens of clients.

And it was from one suite to the next with we've got more capital deployed then we have opportunities to deploy it on show us product.

We love the markets, we love the asset class and we want to put more capital to work. So there has been I can say unequivocally there has not been a single investor that I've spoken with who has had any concern about either rates rising or the macro environment right now not one.

Speaker 2: So there has been, I can say unequivocally, there has not been a single investor that I've spoken with.

Speaker 2: who has had any concern about either rates rising or the macro environment right now. Not one.

Yeah.

Speaker 6: Thanks for that. That's good to hear. And would you say so far, 1Q, the pipelines, it sounds like from the language in the press release and your comments you feel really, really strong.

Thanks for that that's good too.

Yeah, I would just say so far <unk> the pipelines it sounds like from the language in the press release in your comments you feel.

Really really strong.

Speaker 2: So if we don't, I mean, as you know, Jade, we don't manage the business from a Q2Q basis. The reason I went back to a five year CAGR versus the FAANG stocks is because.

So look we don't I mean, as you know Jade, we don't manage the business from a Q to Q basis. The reason I went back to a five year CAGR versus the Fang stocks because we.

Speaker 2: We have been very consistent in putting up annual returns time and time again. So we don't look at this as a Q1 versus Q2. And we also, as you well know, don't give any numbers as it relates to what our pipeline looks like. With all that said, you can take from our earnings release and the tone of the comments that both Steve and I have made that we feel extremely good about our positioning in the market and the overall macro environment in which we are operating today.

We have been very consistent in putting up annual returns time and time again. So we don't look at this as of Q1 versus Q2, and we also as you well know don't give any numbers as it relates to what our pipeline looks like with all that said you can take from our earnings release and the tone of the comments that both Steve and I have made.

Did that we feel extremely good about our positioning in the market and the overall macro environment in which we are operating today.

Speaker 6: Thank you very much. In my view, Walker Dunlop, even though it's grown tremendously, is still

Thank you very much in my view Walker Dunlop, even though it's grown tremendously as still.

Speaker 6: somewhat under followed and at times misunderstood by investors. I get the sense.

Somewhat under followed and at times misunderstood by investors I get the sense the company in times of rising rates gets lumped in with residential mortgage companies.

Speaker 6: company in times of rising rates gets lumped in with residential mortgage companies.

Speaker 6: Yeah, which we know on the single family side, there's a big difference with multifamily with, for example, prepayment protection and the longer duration.

Which we know on the single family side Theres, a big difference with multifamily with for example, prepayment protection in the longer duration, but I suppose in terms of rate sensitivity is just looking for you to confirm that these are accurate. The main sensitivities to interest rates would be interest expense, both corporate and warehouse interest income.

Speaker 6: But I suppose in terms of rate sensitivities, just looking for you to confirm that these are accurate, the main sensitivities to interest rates would be interest expense, both corporate and warehouse interest income.

Speaker 6: uh, and escrow earnings, and then finally servicing assets the way it's valued.

Escrow earnings and then finally servicing asset the way its valued on a discounted cash flow basis is there anything else. We're missing there in terms of sensitivity then yes I would.

Speaker 3: on a discounted cash flow basis. Is there anything else we're missing there in terms of sensitivity? Yeah, I would agree with you on the first two points in terms of the MSR value.

Yes.

Agree with you on the first two points in terms of the MSR value.

Speaker 3: I can't tell you it's not impacted. The value isn't impacted by interest rates, but it is a distant third in terms of the impact of rates on that valuation, just because of the prepayment protections that are built into that. There's not, we don't see significant, you know, expansion in the value when rates go up, and nor do we see a significant contraction in value when rates go down.

Yes.

I can't tell you, it's not impacted the value isn't impacted by interest rates, but it is a distant third in terms of the impact of rates on that valuation.

Because of the prepayment protections that are built into that there's not we don't see significant.

Expansion in the value when rates go up and nor do we see a significant contraction in value when rates go down.

Thank you very much on the GSE side.

Speaker 6: Sounds like some of the decline in volume.

It sounds like some of the decline in volumes.

Speaker 5: is timing related. You know they hit their caps in the fourth quarter and now they have 11 higher caps so there should be an acceleration. But are there any other factors driving the lower volume?

Is timing related they hit their caps in the fourth quarter and now they are 11% higher caps. So there should be an acceleration, but then the other factor thats driving the lower volumes you mentioned the focus on affordable housing, but also I know that the banks and GSE and use a trailing 12 month underwriting and we've seen a huge.

Speaker 6: You mentioned the focus on affordable housing, but also I know that the banks and GSEs use a trailing 12-month underwriting, and we've seen a huge uptick in multifamily rents. And so if you're using trailing 12, your debt service coverage ratios could be eclipsed. But if you use more of a forward-looking metric and take into account, say, the last six months or three months of rent growth, the underwriting could be improved.

<unk> and multifamily rents and so if youre using trailing 12 debt service coverage ratios could be eclipse, but if you use more of a forward looking metric and taken into account say the last six months or three months of rent growth.

Alright, and could be improved any any attributes to why the GSE volumes declines.

Speaker 2: Any attributes to why the GSC volumes declined? A lot of factors. A, they were...

A lot of factors.

Were capped in 2021 to a degree that they werent tapped in 2020.

Speaker 2: tapped in 2021 to a degree that they weren't tapped in 2020.

Speaker 2: They played a counter cyclical role in 2020 and put out a huge amount of capital. And then they were under new caps in 2021 that stepped down to 70 billion for both. As you know, Jade, that step back up to 78 billion for 2022. The second is that they were on a rolling 52 week look back as it relates to those caps in 2021. And so that look back into 2020.

They played a counter cyclical role in 2020 and put out a huge amount of capital and then they were under new caps in 2021 that stepped down to 70 billion for both as you know Jade that step back up to 78 billion for 2022. The second is that they were on a rolling 52 week look.

Back as it relates to those caps in 2021, and so that look back into 2020.

Speaker 2: added to their, if you will, lack of competitiveness in the first half of 2021. Once Sandra Thompson came in as acting director, she removed the 52 week look back. So they don't have that 52 week look back right now, which means that they're back in the market.

Added to their if you will lack of competitiveness in the first half of 2021, one Sandra Thompson came in as acting director. She removed. The 52 week look back. So they don't have that 52 week look back right now which means that they are back in the markets.

Speaker 2: But as I underscored in my comments, they have a significant amount of affordable lending that they must do under their scorecard. And as a result of it, if you bring a deal that doesn't have any affordability to it to the agencies.

But as I underscored in my comments, they have a significant amount of affordable lending that they must do under their scorecard and as a result of it if you bring a deal that doesn't have any affordability to it to the agencies. They are not likely to be the most competitive source of capital.

Speaker 2: they are not likely to be the most competitive source of capital.

Speaker 2: If you have affordability in the asset, they likely will be the most competitive source of capital. And so one of the things that we are very actively doing and one of the reasons why Alliant is so valuable to Walker and Dunlop is that we are working very hard to...

If you have affordability in the in the in the asset they likely will be the most competitive source of capital and so one of the things that we are very actively doing and one of the reasons why alignment is so valuable to Walker and Dunlop is that we are working very hard to <unk>.

Speaker 2: underwrite and lend on affordable properties so that Fannie and Freddie can both meet their affordable goals and then shift their focus, if you will, back towards market rates.

Underwriting and land on affordable properties, so that Fannie and Freddie can both meet their affordable goals and then shift their focus if you will back towards market rates.

Speaker 2: And so it's a dynamic market. FHFA is trying to keep Fannie and Freddie very competitive in the market and supplying the capital that they need to supply and meeting their and our customers' needs. But they are all also more mission focused than almost ever right now. And we're trying to figure out how to go find those deals that will meet with their mission.

And so it's a it's a dynamic market.

<unk> is trying to keep Fannie and Freddie very competitive in the market and supplying the capital that they need to supply and meeting their and our customers' needs.

But they are also more mission focused than almost ever right now and we're trying to figure out how to go find those deals that will meet with their mission.

Speaker 3: And I would add, Jade, specifically on the underwriting question you asked in terms of using T12s for underwriting, I don't think that's had any impact on.

And I would add Jay its specifically on the underwriting question you asked in terms of using <unk> for underwriting.

I don't think Thats had any impact on.

Speaker 3: agency volumes or their desire to be in the market or not be in the market, nor is that really a new issue. I think you've seen a secular shift in leverage levels for the past three years, where owners are levering deals more at the 60-65 percent range rather than all the way up to 75 or 80 percent.

Agency volumes or their desire to.

Be in the market or not be in the market.

Nor is that really a new issue.

I think you've seen a secular shift in leverage levels for the past three years.

Where.

Owners are levering deals more at the 60% to 65% range, rather than all the way up to 75% or 80%.

Speaker 3: That's not a new issue and as I said, I don't think that's had any impact on the overall GSC volumes.

That's not a new issue and as I said I don't think Thats had any impact on the overall GSE volumes.

Thanks, very much I'll get back in the queue. Thanks Jade.

Speaker 1: Thanks, shade our next question comes from Steve Delaney of JMP.

Thanks <unk>. Our next question comes from Steve Delaney of JMP, Steve.

Speaker 3: Steve, you're on the line. Good morning, everyone. Congratulations on yet another great year. You know, this is a corny analogy, but when I think back over the years and talking to clients, I like to tell people that, you know, UWD is just like a...

Good morning, everyone.

Congratulations on yet another great year.

This is a corny analogy, but when I think back over the years and talking to clients I'd like to tell people that WD is just like.

Speaker 7: a good old dependable train that just keeps rolling down the track and gaining momentum. And then every now and then you slow down, you stop and you hit on a shiny new rail car like a lion last year. So I guess first thing quickly, are there you think there any more

Good old dependable training that just keeps rolling down the track and gaining momentum and then every now and then you slow down your staff and you hit you on a shiny new railcar.

Last year. So I guess first thing quickly whether you think there are any more shiny railcars to hitch on over the next year or two.

Speaker 7: rail cars to hitch on over the next year or two from the marketplace that you observe it.

The marketplace as you absorb it so Steve first of all great to have you on this morning's second of all thanks for all of your focus and coverage of <unk>.

Speaker 2: So Steve, first of all, great to have you on this morning. Second of all, thanks for all of your focus and coverage of W&D.

Speaker 2: Uh, look, you know us too well, Steve. Alliant was our 14th acquisition. Uh, I would put forth to you that there will certainly be a 15th.

Look you know us too well, Steve align was our 14th acquisition.

I would put forth to you that there will certainly be a 15th.

Speaker 2: Uh, so we have, um, an incredible business development team that is constantly out looking for opportunities.

So we have an incredible business development team that is constantly out looking for opportunities as you know one of the ways. We have built this company up so successfully is acquiring fantastic human capital and then having a company and a platform that brings them in and keeps that human capital at WMD.

Speaker 2: As you know, one of the ways we have built this company up so successfully is acquiring fantastic human capital and then having a company and a platform that

Speaker 2: brings them in and keeps that human capital at W&D. And so the ability to go identify great companies.

And so the ability to go identify great companies pay what we believe is market prices for them and then be able to leverage them on the broader Walker <unk> Dunlop platform and get fantastic returns from them is something we've done time and time again, so I would just say.

Speaker 2: pay what we believe is market prices for them, and then be able to leverage them on the broader Walker Nellout platform and get fantastic returns from them is something we've done time and time again. So I would just say, um,

Speaker 2: Yes, we'll have plenty more cars to hitch on. I would say one other thing though, Steve, which I think is important. Two things. One, Alliant was our largest acquisition ever.

Yes, we will have plenty more cars to hitch on I would say one other thing, though Steve which I think is important too.

Two things one.

Alliant was our largest acquisition ever.

Speaker 2: We have moved Sherry Thompson, who ran our HUD business over, to working with Sean Horowitz to seamlessly integrate Alliant into Walker & Dunlop. That integration and leveraging the Alliant platform and Walker & Dunlop is super important.

We have moved Sheri Thompson, who ran our HUD business over to working with Shawn Horowitz to seamlessly integrate alliance into Walker, and Dunlop that integration and leveraging the alliant platform and Walker and Dunlop is super important so we need to make sure that that very large and very valuable.

Speaker 2: So we need to make sure that very large and very valuable acquisition is, if you will leverage to the maximum that we possibly can. The other thing is investments in technology.

<unk> is if you will leverage to the maximum that we possibly can the other thing is investments in technology.

Speaker 2: We have been, as we mentioned in the call, we acquired TapCap last year, we acquired Noto the year before that. These technology investments are extremely important to W&D. And while investors can see us go and invest in a mortgage banking company or affordable housing company and kind of easily understand the value and how we're gonna buy them and integrate them into Walker and Dunlop, we must keep focused on technology companies and investing in technology. And that has been a big differentiator of ours over the past several years, and we will continue to do that.

We have been as we mentioned in the call we acquired tap cap last year, we acquired a note of the year before that these technology investments are extremely important to WMD and while investors can see us go and invest in our mortgage banking company or affordable housing company and kind of easily understand the value and how we're going to buy them and integrate them into Walker and Dunlop.

We must keep focused on technology companies and investing in technology and that has been a big differentiator of ours over the past several years and we will continue to do that.

Speaker 7: Thanks. And another obvious characteristic that we get from WD that some companies aren't comfortable with is your strategy of setting five of your goals and then setting out and meeting those. Looking at slide seven.

Thanks.

Other obvious characteristic.

We get from WD that.

Some companies aren't comfortable with as you are.

You or your strategy of setting five year goals and then setting out.

And meeting those.

It's slide seven.

Speaker 7: You just set these goals within the last quarter or two, and now the progress on debt financing, Stephanie and

Just set these goals within the last.

Last quarter or two and now the progress on debt financing property sales.

Speaker 8: has already taken you well towards your goal. Is this something, those two in particular, that you will consider revising? And if so, would you maybe revise those as soon as on your first quarter earnings call? So first of all, as I am.

Has already taken you well towards your goal is is this something those two in particular that you will consider revising and if so would you maybe revise those as soon as on your first quarter earnings call.

So first of all.

Speaker 2: Let us bask in the glory for a moment, Steve, before we go and totally reset it. But I would say this, when we announced the Alliant acquisition in August of last year, we closed it at the end of 2021. But everybody in both our existing asset management business as well as at Alliant knows that by adding 14 billion to the existing almost 2 billion and getting ourselves to 16 billion of AUM, that we're not gonna say, oh great, we're beyond 10 billion, let's just sit here.

Let us let us let us baskin, let us asking the glory for a moment, Steve before we go and totally reset it but I would say this when we we announced the Alliant acquisition in August of last year, we closed it at the end of 2021, but everybody in both our existing asset management business.

As well as at Alliant knows that by adding $14 billion to the existing almost $2 billion and getting ourselves to 16 billion of AUM that we're not going to say Oh, great. We're beyond $10 billion lets just sit here. So we've already gone in and recast some of the goals for our existing asset management business as well as for alliance. So I think.

Speaker 2: So we've already gone and recast some of the goals for our existing asset management business as well as for Alliance. So I think I'm not sure whether we'll do it quarter to quarter, Steve, but your question is a fair one that as we move through 2022, and if we are getting close to achieving goals on debt brokerage or property sales or things of that nature, we probably need to stop and say, okay, great, fantastic progress. What should you expect over the next couple of years?

I'm not sure whether we'll do it quarter to quarter, Steve but your question is a fair one that as we move through 2022, and if we are getting close to achieving goals on debt brokerage or property sales or things of that nature, we probably need to stop and say, okay. Great fantastic progress what should you expect over the next couple of years.

Speaker 7: Thanks, Willie. And one quick one for Steve, if I may, your new dividend rate of $240,000, if we look at that compared to 2021 DPS of $815,000, that's $240,000.

Thanks, Willie and one quick one for Steve if I may.

Your new dividend rate.

240.

Look at that compared to 2021 EPS of <unk>, 29% payout if we want to look at it that way does the board kind of look.

Speaker 7: 29% payout if we want to look at it that way. Does the board kind of look in the rear window and say, okay, we're going to set it as a percentage of what numbers we've posted, or is there any board looking, just a little comment on your dividend policy. And also, I assume that any adjustment to the dividend, we should continue to expect any adjustment that might come would be on an annual basis. Thanks.

In the rear window and say okay.

We're going to set it as a percentage of what numbers, we posted or is there any forward looking.

Just a little comment on your dividend policy.

Also I assume that any adjustment to the dividend. We should continue to expect any adjustment that might come would be on an annual basis. Thanks, Steve Yes, So Steve.

Speaker 3: Yeah, so Steve, I'll go in reverse order here. So just to confirm, I mean, our pattern has been, you know, since we initiated the dividend in February of 18 to, you know, review the level of the dividend on an annual basis and make the change at that point. Obviously, you know, circumstances change, we can.

I'll go in reverse order here, so just to confirm I mean, our pattern has been since we initiated the dividend in February of 2018.

Review the level of the dividend on an annual basis and make the change at that point.

Obviously.

Circumstances change we can.

Speaker 3: We talk about it every quarter with the board, but I think that's the pattern we've established.

We talked about it every quarter with the board but.

I think thats the pattern, we have established in.

Speaker 3: In terms of the conversation with the board, it's a combination of what have we done in the past, but to be honest, that conversation with the board is more about the future.

In terms of the conversation with the board, it's a combination of.

What have we done in the past, but to be honest that conversation with the board is more about the future.

Speaker 3: because we're looking at our liquidity and our...

Because we're looking at.

Our liquidity and our expected results in an adjusted EBITDA generation on a go forward basis, because thats how were paying for the dividend going forward. So it is more of a forward look with the board.

Speaker 2: expected results and adjusted EBITDA generation on a go forward basis, because that's how we're paying for the dividend going forward. So it is more of a forward look with the board. And Steve, I just jump in real quick on one quick point, which is just that Steve Delaney, you just mentioned the point of 29% of earnings in the payout ratio. So as you know, the big number to follow there is actually the cash earnings.

And Steve and Steve I'd, just jump in real quick on one quick point, which is just that Steve Delaney you just mentioned the point of 29% of earnings in the payout ratio.

As you know the big number to follow there is actually the cash earnings.

Speaker 2: And so in the past, that 20, you know, the high 20s was a lot of non-cash earnings in there. Now with the, you know, growth in EBITDA and the growth in cash earnings, that payout ratio is actually on a percentage basis on cash earnings, a significantly lower number than it was in the past.

So in the past that 2000 and the high Twenty's was a lot of noncash earnings in there now with the growth in EBIT da and the growth in cash earnings that payout ratio is actually on a percentage basis on cash earnings are significantly lower number than it was in the past.

Speaker 9: Yeah, understood. So we'll go with the adjusted EPS going forward in that thought process. Thank you both for your comments. Yeah, you bet. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. And we have another.

Yeah understood. So we'll go with the adjusted EPS going forward and that thought process. Thank you both for your comments Yeah. You bet. Thank you Steve.

Thank you, Steve and we have another question from Jade Rahmani.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Speaker 6: Since the broker loan business and the investment sales business have grown so dramatically, and at the same time the fourth quarter is usually the high watermark for those businesses in terms of seasonality, at least for competitors, is there some kind of range that we should think about?

Since the brokered loan business and the investment sales business has grown so dramatically.

And at the same time, the fourth quarter is usually the high watermark for those businesses in terms of seasonality at least for competitors.

Is there some kind of range that we should think about.

Speaker 6: Um, in the broker loan business, it was around 12.7 billion. So more than, you know, uh, we're close to double last quarter's amount. Um,

In the brokered loan business it was around $12 7 billion more than.

We're close to double last quarter's amount.

Speaker 6: You know, I think maybe it makes sense to model growth on top of that for like the fourth quarter of 2022, but, and then a cadence toward that through the year. But we shouldn't really be assuming 12.7 billion as like a quarterly new run rate and the same kind of question for investment sales. So any qualitative commentary you could provide around that just to help make sure we have level set projections.

I think maybe it makes sense to model growth on top of that for the fourth quarter of 2022, but and then the cadence towards that through the year, but we shouldnt really be assuming $12 $7 billion is like a quarterly run rate at the same kind of question for investment sales. So any qualitative commentary you could provide.

I'd around that just to help make sure.

We have a level set projections, yes.

Speaker 3: Yeah, Jade, I'll jump in here. I think the way you're thinking about it is accurate in terms of the flow of business. I mean, typically, there's a lot of capital markets activity in the fourth quarter as folks are trying to clear the decks from a tax year standpoint. So if you go back and look at our volumes over history,

Jade I'll jump in here I think the way Youre thinking about it is.

Accurate in terms of the flow of business I mean typically.

There's a lot of capital markets activity in the fourth quarter as folks are trying to clear.

Clear the decks from a tax year standpoint.

So.

If you go back and look at our volumes over history.

Speaker 3: There are always exceptions to this, but typically Q4 would be the high watermark in terms of overall transaction volume, specifically on the debt brokerage and the property sale side, and then it would come back down to a lower level in Q1 and then build up over the course of the year.

There are always exceptions to this but typically Q4 would be the high watermark in terms of overall transaction volume.

Specifically on the debt brokerage and the property sales side, and then we'd come back down to <unk>.

Lower level in Q1, and then build up over the course of the year.

Speaker 6: OK, thank you very much. And producer headcount, excluding Alliance and Zelman, could you talk to what the growth rate is? Say for the fourth quarter.

Okay. Thank you very much and producer head count Excluding alliance and Zelman could you talk to what the growth rate is.

Let's say for the fourth quarter on a year over year basis do.

Speaker 2: Do you have that Steve? I don't have that. I don't have that either Willie. Yeah, we can get that to you.

Do you have that Steve I don't have that.

I don't have that either Willy yes, Jay if we can get that to you.

Speaker 2: I yeah it's I mean, as you know, we haven't we continuous.

Yes.

I mean as you know we haven't I mean, we continuous Li add teams, but we're not we haven't done a major acquisition and I think it's just astounding the growth we've seen from the <unk>.

Speaker 2: We add teams, but we're not, you know, we haven't done a major acquisition, and I think it's just astounding the growth we've seen from the existing team. And I think it speaks a lot to not only a robust market, but the team and the brand that we've established. I'll be very interested to see some more questions.

Existing team and I think it speaks a lot to not only a robust market, but the team and the brand that we've established.

The variance to the see some of our peer companies report and what kind of growth they've seen because something tells me that the growth we've seen in that brokerage and investment sales far outstrips the competition.

Speaker 2: Peer companies report and what kind of growth they've seen because something tells me that the growth we've seen in debt brokerage and investment sales far outstrips the competition.

Speaker 6: OK, and then just lastly, on the debt side, do you know what the mix of floating versus fixed is?

Okay, and then just lastly on the debt side do you know what the mix of floating versus.

Is.

Speaker 2: I don't have float to fix right now. And Jay, just by the way, by the end of the year without Alliant, we're at 224 bankers and brokers at WND. So, and I wanna say, I don't have the comparison to last year's Q4, but I think we were just up from, yeah, ended last year at 205. So another 20, you know, 10% growth in broker and banker volume year on year, by the end of the year.

I don't have float to fixed right now and Jay just by the way by the end of the year without Alliant, we're at 224 bankers and brokers at WMD.

So and I want to say I don't have the comparisons to last year's Q4, but I think we were just up from ended ended.

Last year at 205, so another 20, 10% growth in.

In broker and banker volume year on year.

By the end of the year.

Speaker 3: So obviously 200 plus percent growth far outstrips the number of bodies that we put on the team. And then on that float to fixed, I don't have that number on our queue. The amount of floating rate business we've done in the last couple years has been pretty de minimis.

So obviously 200 plus percent growth far outstrips the number of bodies that we put on the team.

And then on that float to fixed I don't have that number on our <unk> or the.

The amount of floating rate business, we've done in the last couple of years JD has been pretty de Minimis.

Speaker 3: I think when we were smaller and more, call it Fannie, Freddie focused, that was a bigger issue in terms of overall margins, et cetera. That's become much less of an issue for us.

Okay, it's not.

I think when we were smaller and more.

Call It Fannie Freddie focused.

That was a bigger issue in terms of.

Overall margins et cetera, that's become.

Much less of an issue for us.

Okay.

Speaker 6: Just on the producer headcount, what would be your target for this year? Are we expecting double digit growth in math?

Just on the producer head count what would be a target for for this year are we expecting double digit growth in that.

We.

Speaker 2: At the beginning of every year, Jade, I have a conversation with Howard Smith, who's our president, as it relates to the number of bankers and brokers we want to go out and hire. And I'll just put it this way, I've been working with Howard now for 17 years, and Howard has yet to miss his hiring goal on an annual basis because it's one of his goals and objectives and he always hits it. I'm not going to tell you what that number is going to be, but to get to double digit revenue growth, earnings growth, and EBITDA growth on the year, we better go out and add 10% plus in broker and banker volume as far as headcount. But at the same time, I think one of the things you're seeing right now is the leverage we're gaining from the brand and the platform.

At the beginning of every year Jade I have a conversation with Howard Smith, Who's our president as it relates to the number of bankers and brokers, we want to go out and hire.

And I'll just put it this way I have been working with Howard now for 17 years and Howard is yet to Miss his hiring goal on an annual basis because it is one of his goals and objective and he always hits it.

I can tell you what that number is going to be but to get to double digit revenue growth earnings growth and EBITDA growth on the year, we better go out and add.

10% plus in.

In broker and banker volume as far as head count, but at the same time I think one of the things Youre seeing right. Now is the leverage we are gaining from the brand and the platform.

Speaker 2: the collaboration that's going on between our investment sales team and our banking teams is unbelievable to see. And so that combination of people, the brand and the technology all coming together is what's getting these outsized gains. And so while we clearly want to be out there in the market recruiting the very best bankers and brokers to come to Walker and Dunlop, we're getting a lot of leverage from some other things right now too.

The collaboration that's going on between our investment sales team in our banking teams is unbelievable to see.

So that combination of people the brand and the technology all coming together is what's getting these outsized gains and so while we clearly want to be out there in the market recruiting the very best bankers and brokers to come to Walker and Dunlop, we're getting a lot of leverage for some other things right now too.

Speaker 5: OK, thanks very much for taking the questions and all the best. Thank you, Jayden. Thank you, Jayden. Appreciate it.

Okay. Thanks, very much for taking the questions and all the best Thank you J P. J appreciate it.

Speaker 1: Thanks, Jade. We have no further questions at this time, so we'll turn it back over to Willie to close us out.

Thanks, Jay we have no further questions at this time I will turn it back over to willing to close this out.

Speaker 2: Thank you everyone for joining us this morning. Thank you Kelsey and Jenna and the rest of the

Thank you everyone for joining us this morning.

Thank you Kelsey and Jenna and the rest of the.

Speaker 2: investor relations team for all your work in getting this done. And thank you to Steve and all of your team for all the work to get our financials done and

Investor Relations team for all your work in getting this done and thank you to Steve and all of your team for all the work to get our financials done and.

<unk>.

Speaker 2: ready for this call. 2021 was an incredible year for our company. And what's really exciting is that the macro backdrop.

Ready for this call.

It was 2021 was an incredible year for our company and what's really exciting is that the macro backdrop and everything that we've done in the past is only leading to more strength at WMD. So thank you everyone for joining US today hope you have a fantastic day and thanks again to everyone on the WD team for the year and for all we are doing today.

Speaker 2: and everything that we've done in the past is only leading to more strength at W&D. So thank you everyone for joining us today. Hope you have a fantastic day and thanks again to everyone on the W&D team for the year and for all we're doing today.

Thanks, everyone.