Q2 2022 Ballard Power Systems Inc Earnings Call
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Thank you for standing by. This is the conference operator. Welcome to the Ballard Power Systems second quarter 2022 results conference call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode and the conference is being recorded. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To join the question queue, you may press star then 1 on your telephone keypad.
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I would now like to turn the conference over to Kate Charlton, Vice President Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Thank you, operator, and good morning. Welcome to Ballard's second quarter 2022 Financial and Operating Results Conference call. With us on today's call are Randy McEwen, Ballard's CEO , and Paul Dobson, Chief Financial Officer.
I'm also excited to announce we will be hosting our investor day this fall on November 22nd. We look forward to hosting you in Vancouver.
Today, we will be making four looking statements that are based on management's current expectations, beliefs, and assumptions concerning future events. Actual results could be materially different. Please refer to our most recent annual information form and other public filings for our complete disclaimer and related information. I will now turn the call over to Randy.
Thank you, Kate, and welcome everyone to today's conference call.
I'd like to first report that during Q2 we welcome David Muchachara as Ballard's new Chief Commercial Officer with global responsibility for sales, marketing, product line management and customer care.
Prior to joining Ballard, David was most recently Vice President Global Sales M&A and Marketing of Magna Electronics.
He brings a depth of expertise and strong track record in leading global commercial teams with over 25 years of sales leadership experience from the automotive industry, including with ZF, Furcia, Lear, and TRW.
The skill set will be highly valuable to Ballard as we grow sales and transition into commercial scale deployment. David is already having a positive impact on our commercial activities.
Now getting into the quarter.
In Q2, Ballard delivered $20.9 million in revenue and secured new orders totaling $12.3 million.
This activity translates to an order backlog of 91.2 million at the end of Q2.
This is softer than planned as a number of expected sizable orders have shifted out.
We remain excited about our expanding opportunity set across our various applications and regions, as reflected in the significant growth of our sales pipeline.
We're experiencing record levels of customer engagement.
progressing through demonstration programs with multiple platform customers, and fully expect to execute on important platform wins in the next 12 months.
Our market focus remains unchanged, targeting large addressable markets of medium and heavy duty mobility, including bus, truck, rail and marine, as well as select stationary power generation markets.
These are the applications where the value proposition is strongest for our hydrogen fuel cell technology.
I'll provide a brief update of highlights and our progress on our key applications.
We continue to see progress for fuel cell adoption for bus applications in Europe and the US.
Our ongoing work with our bus OEM customers and transit operators to pilot small bus fleets and demonstrate our fuel cells ability to meet customer needs is paying off.
Europe is now entering its next stage of deployment, with certain cities moving from a handful of fuel cell buses to now over 100.
As examples, recently public transport transit operators in Cologne, Germany and West Midlands, UK announced plans to deploy additional hydrogen fuel cell bus fleets of 100 and over 120 buses respectively.
We are confident Ballard will be positioned to participate in supporting these plans through our strong customer and end user relationships.
In the United States, due to the significant increase in federal low-no funding, we are seeing higher customer engagement in California and other states, including a 300% increase in the number of low-no applications for fuel cell buses.
The Federal Transit Administration announced funding in March for $1.1 billion each year for the next five years.
We've been working closely with our partners on applications and expect this to support growth in the US fuel cell bus market.
In the chalk market, we continue to make steady progress with our partnerships.
Our development program with Mali remains on schedule.
Integration of Ballard's fuel cell module and testing on the concept engine is ongoing and expected to continue throughout the year.
Consistent with our previous messaging, we're leveraging our parallel go-to-market strategy, partnering with both OEMs and vehicle integrators to enable Ballard to support end-user demand in the near, mid, and long term, and accelerate the adoption of fuel cell electric trucks.
One of our European upfitter partners, Quantron, is planning to unveil a zero-emission truck powered by a Ballard fuel cell engine at the IAA 2022 show in Hanover in September .
In rail, we are on track with key customers in Europe and North America.
Over the past four years, we've been developing a 200-kilowatt fuel cell engine to support Siemens mobility in the development and commercialization of a two-car commuter train that combines innovation with sustainability.
Siemens has now commercialized the Moreo Plus H, which is a highly advanced second generation hydrogen train featuring acceleration of up to 1.1 meters per second squared and a top speed of 160 kilometers per hour.
The train has the lowest life cycle cost on the market and can be refueled in just 15 minutes.
We're thrilled that in June , Siemens Mobility announced the first fleet order of its Morayo Plus H trains for the Berlin-Brandenburg Metropolitan Region.
The 7 train fleet to be powered by 14 200 kilowatt fuel cell engines is expected to be commissioned and operated on a network in late 2024.
By switching from diesel to hydrogen, we're expecting to see reduced annual CO2 emissions by around 3 million kilos and save 1.1 million liters of diesel.
We're excited by the long-term partnership with Siemens as a platform rail customer.
And in North America, as we look at the locomotive market, we continue to support CP Rail as it progresses on its hydrogen locomotive program.
We're excited to report that CSCP is progressing on hydrogen infrastructure.
CP is planning the construction of two hydrogen production and fueling facilities in Calgary and Edmonton, Alberta with EPC partner ATCO.
The hydrogen infrastructure at each CP site will include a 1 MW electrolyzer, compression, storage and dispensing for locomotive refueling.
Construction of the facility is expected to begin this year, with production and supply of hydrogen being provided to locomotives in 2023.
We also see continued momentum in the marine market, specifically in our current target markets of coastal and inland applications.
We see strong engagement from existing and prospective customers for marine applications.
following our achievement of DNV-type approval for FC-Wave product in the quarter.
We've seen a growing opportunity pipeline for these markets and believe our technology and our type of approval achievement will set us apart from competitors.
In stationary power generation, our total order backlog has increased 36% year over year. This is indicative of growing market opportunities as companies identify hydrogen fuel cells as a competitive alternative to traditional diesel technologies.
Our focus applications for stationary power include backup power for data centers like the project underway with Cat and Microsoft.
grid storage applications, and captive power for mines or construction sites.
We're increasingly confident in the outlook for this segment of our business as we gain meaningful customer traction on large order volumes in our sales pipeline.
Now, looking at our key geographic regions.
Our European revenues increased 25% from the first quarter this year as we saw Europe increasingly prioritize energy security and decarbonization.
Q2 was a very busy quarter for European policies as the EU doubles down on investments and new initiatives to boost renewables and hydrogen as evidenced by the REAP Power EU Action Plan and banning of internal combustion engines for cars by 2035.
Post quarter, we continue to see additional policies and funding announcements to support Europe's energy transition.
Such initiatives include the approval of grants totaling over 5 billion euro for 41 large scale hydrogen related projects across the continent and many others to be rolled out over the coming months.
This is going to be a catalyst in the European market to drive down the cost of low carbon hydrogen.
We are confident Ballard's technology and competitive positioning, including our partnerships, position us well in multiple markets across the continent, and we expect Europe to continue to be a rapid and growing adopter of our hydrogen zero-emission fuel cell technology.
In North America, we saw the continued trend of increased sales with revenue up nearly 30% quarter over quarter and year over year for the region.
We anticipate the US Inflation Reduction Act, which was passed by the Senate this past weekend,
to have a significant positive impact on the broader clean energy industry.
the hydrogen industry and Ballard.
The act includes nearly $370 billion for domestic energy production and manufacturing, energy cost reduction, as well as lowering national carbon emissions by 40% by 2030. There are provisions for $3 billion in funding for zero emission equipment and technology at ports, $1 billion for clean heavy duty vehicles such as buses and garbage trucks, as well as hydrogen fuel incentives, extending and expanding of electric vehicle investment tax credits and introducing
Specifically, fuel costs are estimated to account for between 30 and 70 percent of the TCO depending on application.
This means a production tax credit on low carbon hydrogen could reduce the TCO of fuel cell technologies to at or below the cost of the incumbent fossil fuel technology.
Amidst this strong US industry backdrop, we continue to invest in our US platform.
We're growing our current team of capabilities in the US, including a manufacturing footprint in Oregon.
The new facility is anticipated to be in operation in 2023 and will support our customers who secure Buy America funding by manufacturing our newest generation fuel cell module, the FCMOVE HD Plus in the United States.
In Q2, we saw
We saw a decrease in revenue contribution from China compared to Q2 last year. We await further policy clarity as Hunan's policy planning, the cluster in which the Weichai Beller JV facilities included, has been impacted by COVID with lengthy lockdowns including in Zhengzhou.
Throughout the quarter, many regions throughout the country were impacted by COVID restrictions and lockdowns. While their manufacturing facility in Weifang has stayed open, day-to-day business operations amongst companies and government bodies continues to see delays.
Despite the recent challenges China has faced, we are confident in the mid and long-term outlook and continue to evaluate how best to position and expand our operations to take advantage of the policies and long-term market capture.
In Hong Kong, we observe growing support for fuel cell buses.
This quarter, Hong Kong launched its first ever hydrogen fuel cell bus.
This double-decker bus was built by our partner Wisdom Motor Company and powered by a Weichai Ballard fuel cell module.
This demonstration showcases our fuel cell technology capabilities to meet one of the world's most demanding operating environments.
comprising of steep road grades, high passenger loads, the need for fast refueling, and the requirement for significant air conditioning.
Wisdom provided the bus to fleet operator Bravo who operates over 1,700 buses and carries over 1 million passengers daily.
Bravo's long-term vision is to operate a fleet of zero-emission fuel cell buses.
Shifting to our financials in a quarter.
We saw further gross margin compression in Q2.
The downward pressure was driven by a combination of a shift in revenue mix
the impacts of pricing strategy, higher fixed overhead costs, higher warranty adjustments, increased inflationary supply costs, as well as negatively impacted by net inventory adjustments.
with volume
cost reduction and improved pricing dynamics, we expect to see margin expansion in 2023 and 2024.
Recognizing a challenging and uncertain macroeconomic outlook, we've decreased our planned investments in 2022.
We are revising our total operating expense and capital expenditure guidance downwards.
Our total operating expense guidance has been revised from 140 to 160 million to 130 to 150 million.
Capital expenditure guidance has been lowered from $40 to $60 million to $30 to $50 million.
With a balance sheet of a billion dollars in cash, we continue to evaluate corporate development opportunities.
While we've been active in our opportunity evaluation of acquisitions and investments, we remain disciplined on execution to ensure we make the best strategic decisions for value and creation.
Our opportunity evaluation remains focused on expanding across the value chain, simplifying and enhancing customer experience, accelerating fuel cell adoption in target markets, and facilitating business scaling.
We have high conviction in the long term opportunities for hydrogen and fuel cells and are encouraged by the growing importance governments and customers across the globe are placing on the acceleration of the energy transition.
We see converging trends driving energy transition including net zero ambitions, low cost renewable energy and energy security.
Ballard's resilient business model, world-class fuel cell talent, diverse market exposure across applications and regions, advanced technology, and global growth.
Continued innovation, strong partnerships and customer relationships, and solid balance sheet set us up for success.
With that, I'll turn the call back over to the operator for questions.
Thank you. Thank you.
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The first question is from Aaron McNeil with TD Securities. Please go ahead.
Hey, morning all. Thanks for taking my questions. Randy, as it relates to the Inflation Reduction Act, how are you thinking about the $0.60 to $3 per kilogram production incentive and the $40,000 per commercial vehicle tax credit in terms of what could mean for U.S. bookings activity over the next 12 months?
More specifically, do you think that incentive is enough to get some of the customers you're engaging with over the line and moving towards a formal order?
Yeah, Aaron, thanks for the question. I think we view this as a major catalyst in the US market. It wasn't too long ago, maybe two years ago, where the US market really was not a high priority for us. In fact, we had really characterized the US market as a California market.
That has clearly changed, you know, over the last year. Of course, we're not quite there. There's still some work to do later this week, I think, to see this pass, of course. But I think the combination of lowering the cost of low carbon hydrogen, as well as supporting early adopters with the CapEx costs for vehicles, I think are very powerful tools. We've seen similar tools be successful in the US before.
and we're expecting this to be a significant accelerator, not just for the bus market, but for the truck market as well. And we're looking at not just fleets with opportunities to refuel at tethered refueling stations, but also longer term for corridor refueling infrastructure.
Understood. In terms of my follow-up, I'm just wondering if you could give us a bit more detail on the guidance revisions in terms of what sort of specific activities or initiatives were cancelled or deferred as you...
Understood, and in terms of my follow-up, I'm just wondering if you could give us a bit more detail on the guidance revisions in terms of what sort of specific activities or initiatives were canceled or deferred as you move the spending ranges lower.
Hi Aaron, it's Paul here. So yes, we did lower slightly our guidance on both OpEx and CapEx, as we stated in responding to a challenging macro environment. I mean, you will have noticed that we have been ramping up our costs, 38 million total costs.
in Q2, 14 million higher than the prior year. And last year, you can see that the pace has been, from last year, you can see that the pace has been increasing.
We're investing, as we stated, in research and development product development, next generation products, MEAs, plates, stacks, modules. Also focused on product cost reduction.
as well as scaling up our production and manufacturing scalability facilities and market development. Also investing in Europe and the UK with our corporate development activity as well. So yes, we did say that we would be reducing it and when we say a challenging macro outlook, that encompasses a few different things. It not only encompasses the prudence of the industry, it also encompasses the
on any sort of lower priority, less essential spending that we have, so really scrutinizing the prioritization. But that is by no means a message that we are backing off on our commitment to scale up and invest in our products. We think that's extremely important, especially as we talk to customers and secure larger orders that are looking for us to be able to have the best technology.
be able to produce it at scale and at quality. And so we will continue to focus on that. So, but there is maybe a few areas where we could cut back without impacting that objective. But the other area too is that we acknowledge also that there have been supply chain challenges.
that could persist into 2023. So while we are ordering parts and production equipment and such, it is taking longer. The lead times are getting pushed out due to supply chain challenges which will impact the spending in the year.
And it also, the final area, it also acknowledges the reality of us onboarding really well qualified people. We've done a great job this year and scaled up I think by about 80 people, mostly in engineering, but it's slightly behind the pace we thought we would be at. We'll continue to press forward and look for those people, but it is a reality of the environment we're in. And taking that all together, we see our spending to be slightly less than the guidance that we provided on both our...
the value proposition in some of your other target markets in the US? Do you anticipate you could see an acceleration in power markets for example or even interest in rail and hydrogen in the US?
Yeah, Rupert, I think you're right. This is going to support adoption across a number of market applications.
On the rail market, we have been looking at the locomotive market, you know, with CP obviously in Canada, but more broadly we're seeing a lot more interest from rail operators to decarbonize.
you know in North America for freight market you really don't have opportunity for catenary wire infrastructure. So in my opinion the only option there is fuel cell technology.
And with this change...
with the production tax credit in the total cost of ownership and for this application, locomotives, you're looking at fuel as the number one cost for rail application. So we do see that strengthen the value proposition. There's work to do over the coming years to validate the hydrogen fuel cell value proposition, but certainly the hydrogen PTC outlook is strong as we look forward in that market.
And then I think the other market we're quite excited about for the long term as well is not just transit buses but coaches.
And so the opportunity to see lower cost fuel, which is important to coach total cost of ownership as well, will be valuable. So it won't be just trucks, but we'll see transit operators, coach operators, and the rail market as opportunities as well for the U.S. market.
How about the power market? Do you see any growing opportunities for either energy storage or backup power? How about the power market? Do you see any growing opportunities for either energy storage
Yeah, so for the backup power market I don't see the PTC to be a big catalyst in my opinion. These are typically applications that don't consume a lot of fuel, so it's more about having resiliency and zero emission and in some cases the ability for accelerated permitting. So I think those are stronger drivers than the PTC.
There are, of course, some stationary applications where you will see more primary power, where fuel can become a larger portion of the TCO. That's still, I would say, a work in progress in terms of developing those markets for the U.S.
I'll leave it there. Thank you. Great. Thanks Rupert. Thanks, Rupert.
The next question is from Jeff Osborn with Cohen and Company. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Randy. I was wondering if we could dig into the gross margin pressure of the past couple quarters. You had a bit of a laundry list of items. The two I wanted to try to focus on and how they sort of unwind themselves were the warranty charge you mentioned and then also the pricing strategy. Can you just touch on what the pricing philosophy has been over the past 12, 18 months that's flowing through the P&L now and then how that sort of unwinds itself as we look at expansion into 23 and 24?
Yeah, Jeff, thanks for the question. Maybe I'll start off and then Paul can supplement. Maybe I'll start with the pricing strategy. I think what we're seeing is we've moved to our next generation of product.
And part of that next generation of product was to introduce new pricing strategy to secure orders and transition customers to that new technology.
So that I would say is a primary driver of that pricing challenge. At the same time of course, late last year and early this year we've seen some inflationary pressure on the supply chain side. And so as we execute against those orders and as some of the supply chain costs have gone up a little, that's impacted of course our cost side of that equation. So what we do see is as these, you know, we're talking about early.
volumes for these new products as we move to higher volume for these products and as we adjust pricing based on the supply chain changes as well, we do expect to see changes in the gross margin profile and some gross margin progression in 2023 and 2024. I think one of the things that's important to understand of course is that with the investments we've made in our manufacturing capacity and still low volumes, the top ten Kingdoms gone from current Storage point to current
you know, our overhead absorption is still diluted at this point. Paul, you want to comment a little bit further on the warranty? Yeah, so on the warranty, the impact in the corridor actually wasn't that.
severe. It is sort of looks like it's amplified because of the you know the size of the revenues. We did book extra provisions if you recall in prior quarters for some issues we saw in the lab with some of our products make good progress on resolving a lot of those and are now fully provided. We believe we're fully provided to resolve that issue with customers. It's important that you know we have enough warranty provision and stand behind our products.
customers try them out and we roll them out. So the warranty impact was I would characterize as relatively minor in the quarter and we don't see that changing much in going into the second half of the year either.
Got it. That's helpful. Maybe just one quick follow up. I'm not following you, Randy. Maybe I haven't had enough coffee, but the move towards the new platforms, why do you need to discount? Did you have to do that when you moved from the Mark 9 to subsequent platforms in the past, or is this really just an issue of moving from sort of tech solutions platform development and monetizing units that way to true commercial terms?
with the Move HD platform or something else. I'm just trying to understand why when a platform gets more energy dense, you need to lower the cost.
Yeah, no, it's a discussion we've had with, particularly with the bus OEMs for some time of leaning forward on the cost structure to make sure that the total value proposition for the bus operators and the OEMs work as well. And it's not just us that's been doing that. We've been seeing other participants in the value chain supporting this to get the demonstration fleets out in the marketplace. So I would say that's part of it. The other is just.
You know, there is a cost required for these operators to transition from one product to the next product and part of the way to help them move to that next product is the pricing strategy.
Got it. That's all I had. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.
The next question is from Michael Glenn with Raymond James. Please go ahead.
Hey Randy, just during your opening comments, I sort of missed it, but can you just touch on you're going to establish some manufacturing in the US? Can you just give some thoughts on timing for when that would happen or just clarify what you're looking to build down there?
Yeah, thanks Michael. This is really kind of our initial manufacturing facility that we look to set up in the US in Oregon where we already have a relatively small engineering team that will help support this build out of a facility. It's a relatively modest investment initially, so about 4 million US dollars and the ability to manufacture up to about 2,500 modules per year.
and we expect that to be online and operational in Q1 2023.
Okay, and a follow-up, there was over in China, I saw that Alfred Wang was moved from managing director of China into the CEO of China Rule. I'm just trying to understand a little bit better, is there a particular reason for that move? Is it indicative of something taking place in the Chinese market?
Yeah, so a couple of things there. One is that Alfred was managing director for Asia PAC and so he moved into CEO for China. So very much focused on the China market rather than Asia PAC coverage. Secondly, our organizational structure, we made some changes to be more regional, closer to customers. So this is part of it and part of Alfred's career arc as well.
Okay, thanks. Thanks for taking the questions. Thanks, Michael.
The next question is from Craig Shear with Tuohy Brothers. Please go ahead. You're on the spot, Craig.
Hi, thanks for taking the questions.
So there was kind of revenue softness in the quarter for...
both stationary power and material handling. Do you see that as a bit of an aberration? What are the specific prospects over the next 12 months?
Yeah, Craig, thanks for the question. I don't think we expect to see any major increase on the material handling side over the next 12 months.
But the stationary power market is proving to be very active in our sales pipeline. A lot of engagement there in Europe , in North America, and I expect some very positive developments on the stationary power market over the next 12 months.
Great. Thank you for that.
You know you mentioned all you know your your kind of opportunity rich with all these
You know pilots demonstration studies joint ventures and such Are there some specific mile markers you could share about you know when we might hear or get specific? Feedback in a particular area you know as far as you know vehicles or rail or marine Over specific quarters over the next you know 12 18 months like first half next year. We should hear this or
Just some kind of timing feedback, mile markers? Yeah, I would say on the rail market in Europe with Siemens, obviously they have now secured their first commercial order. So we do expect to see more progress on that market over the coming 12 months. I think you know, you'll likely see orders on that front. In the marine market, you'll see some markers in terms of actual deployments.
hitting the water, which is very important to see those products getting demonstrated. So for example, Norled in Norway, we expect to see progress there. These are really important to have the first deployments, so not just the sales of the engines, but getting them into vessels and actually powering, providing propulsive power for those vessels for a period of time as well. So I think by the end of 2023, we should have three or four different marine projects that have showed really good progress on water.
And then I would say in the truck market these parallel paths that we have both with Malé will receive, I think, significant technical milestones by the end of 2023 and starting to engage with OEM customers. And then in parallel with the, I'll call them the upfitters, the systems integrators, vehicle integrators, like Quantron, where you see them demonstrating or unveiling a truck.
with a fuel cell engine from Ballard and then moving to a sales, long-term sales relationship with these type of customers and we see that with others as well including Wisdom Motor out of China.
Thank you.
The next question is from Chris Souther with B. Riley Securities. Please go ahead. Hey, thanks for taking my question here. You talked a little bit about the order momentum not being quite right.
Can you talk a little bit about where the push out of that low order level is happening? You know, just primarily China or any of the other kind of activities, you know, either European bus or webinar that you thought might be starting to hit. Just wanted to get a better sense of the disconnect between the order activity versus what sounds like continued acceleration of the pipeline and when you think that pipeline is going to really start to hit the inflection point.
Yeah, Chris, thanks for the question. Certainly on the bus side, we had expected to receive orders for those two cities that we mentioned with over 120 fuel cell buses already this year. They've taken longer for a variety of reasons, including funding and fueling infrastructure delays. But those are still very much strong sales leads for us and we expect to convert those. So that's one example.
Another example would be on the rail side. We expected to have larger orders with some customers there, announceable already. We'll see that, I believe, in the second half of the year. And then I do think some of the stationary power markets that we've been working with customers on for some time. These are large.
you know, really chunky opportunities, project opportunities, and there's some complexity to some of them. And so it's just a matter of supporting the customers through their project development cycle and moving to order. So, some of these things have taken longer than we expected. And we're still very much, they're still all live and high probability opportunities. None of them have disappeared. you
It's really very much a timing issue, but we expect to see very good progress over the coming 12 months.
Okay, that's helpful. Maybe just within the backlog, could you break it down a little bit more by either segment or end market or geography? It sounds like the stationary power is growing, but I wanted to get a sense of how that shapes in the mix as well as the existing bus customers.
Yeah, I'm just trying to find the data for you, but we've seen the stationary backup or the stationary market total backlog increase 33% year over year for Q2. I don't have my finger on the bus market at the moment. But a lot of the order intake, I think 60% of the order intake in Q2 was for bus and stationary. Including some new customers as well, so seeing positive, very positive growth in those segments.
Okay, and then the last one here, just, you know, China, you know, we've seen kind of fits and starts, you know, throughout the time there. You know, kind of both market and COVID, you know, specific shutdown more recently. Can you talk a bit about what the visibility looks like for the second half within China?
Yeah, just to supplement the question about the backlog as well, one of the things that I really like about our backlog, notwithstanding it's not as firm right now as we'd like to see, as well as our sales pipeline is the diversification we see in there across multiple applications, multiple regions and customers. So there's a lot of richness we see in the order backlog and the sales pipeline, I think which differentiates us from a number of other players in the fuel cell space. So I think that's something important to highlight.
I don't think there's been any really major regional shift over the last quarter or so. And to your point about China, very frankly, candidly, still limited visibility for the back half of the year. I would note, there are today just under 11,000 buses and commercial trucks operating in China. About 3,500 of those vehicles have Ballard fuel cell technology inside, so over 30% market share.
over 125 million kilometers of on-road service from those vehicles. So a very significant data point for Ballard in terms of real-world experience in the China market. And the other thing that's interesting in China is there still are notwithstanding the policy uncertainty, there's still quite a few hydrogen refueling stations getting built out. So today there's over 200, I think around 203 hydrogen refueling stations completed and operational in China.
in China. He's just arrived in China and is actually going through the quarantine period right now and has a number of important meetings coming up in the China market.
Okay, that's helpful. I'll have to get the next guy.
Yep.
The next question is from Rob Brown with Lake Street Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Good morning, I just wanted to follow up on the European bus order activity. What sort of driving that increase in in units being deployed in there? Is that happening? I guess, or is there a sales pipeline in other cities of that kind of change in order in order rates?
Yeah, Rob, great question. I think this is really a situation where you're seeing those transit operators that have trialed fuel cell technology.
have in some cases trialed battery electric technology and have seen the challenges with both technologies and the opportunities with both technologies and are deciding for their routes, for their duty cycles and load profiles that fuel cells meet the market requirements. And so that's the transition I think that's occurring. Those operators that have seen the reliability and durability proven out have seen the performance of the vehicles in the field.
and now are, you know, amping up their zero emission requirements and selecting fuel cell technology. And this is not limited to these two cities where we now have visibility on over 100 fuel cell buses. There are a number of other cities that are really scaling up their plans in the European market. I think the macro context in Europe is only going to accelerate this over the coming years.
Okay, thank you. I'll turn it over.
Okay, thank you. I'll turn it over. Thanks, Rob.
The next question is from Greg Wasikowski with Weber Research. Please go ahead. You're welcome.
Hey, good morning, Randy. First question is on getting customers over the line. Is infrastructure the biggest gating factor there? Like you just kind of touched on with buses? Or is it mostly wrapped up in supply chain or maybe something else?
Yeah, so it varies by market application, but what I would say is where you have funding, government funding requirements tied to deployments, that's often a pacing item. And then hydrogen refueling infrastructure, I would say those are the top two.
Got it. Okay, thank you. And then back to the PTC. Does that at all change your outlook on getting into electrolyzers? And then if so, can you remind us would the first priority be to do that organically or potentially inorganically?
Yeah, so I think we were expecting a lot of people were negative on whether or not this type of bill would come back sometime, slim down, build back better bill. This IRA would come through. We actually thought that this would come through this year, so we weren't surprised by it. So, I would say our view on electrolyzers is where we have the ability to help the design of MEAs.
to improve performance and lower cost and in-house design and production of MEAs, we think we can be additive to an electrolyzer company.
What we've seen is that there are scarcity of opportunities in the market. They're all, in my opinion, fairly fully priced in many cases. So it's been challenging to find opportunities that kind of meet our investment criteria.
The other thing is that we aren't interested in being a supplier of hydrogen fuel. More really looking at that equipment, the sale of the electrolyzer equipment. So, I would say this is something that would be nice to have, but is not required. Our customers are not demanding from us that we come to them and support their electrolyzer or green hydrogen production needs.
So, I would view it as if we found the right opportunity at the right value and we could add value from a technical perspective.
Those characteristics would lead to success. Without those characteristics, I don't think we'll see us moving forward in that direction. We wouldn't do this organically. You see a number of companies have been moving from or adding from their fuel cell technology, whether it's PEM or even solid oxide, adding to their activity set electrolyzers.
Our view is that that's a fairly significant and demanding exercise and there's not a full 100% overlap in terms of the technology and so
For us, focusing on the fuel cell market opportunity and driving success there is important. So this would only be an M&A opportunity, not something we do organically.
Go ahead. Thanks, Randy. Yeah. Thanks, Greg.
This concludes the question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Randy McEwen, CEO , for any closing
Great, and thank you everyone for joining us today. Paul, Kate, and I look forward to speaking with you in the next quarter. Thanks again.
This concludes today's conference call. You may disconnect the lines. Thank you for participating and have a pleasant day.
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