Q3 2022 Ideal Power Inc Earnings Call
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Good day and welcome to the ideal powers third quarter 2022 results Conference call. Today's conference is being recorded at this time I would like to turn the conference over to Caroline capacity O. A L. H eight. Please go ahead.
Thank you operator, and good afternoon, everyone and thank you for joining ideal powers third quarter 2022 conference call with me on the call are Denver, Dar President and Chief Executive Officer, and Tim Burns Chief Financial Officer ideal powers third quarter 2022 financial results press release is available on the company's website at Ivy Hill.
Dot com before we begin I'd like to remind everyone that statements made on the call and webcast, including those regarding future financial results and industry prospects are forward looking and maybe subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in the call. Please refer to the company's SEC filings.
List of associated risks and we would also refer you to the company's website for more supporting industry information now I will turn the call over to Idaho, Power's, President and CEO damper dark Dan.
Thank you Carolyn and good afternoon, everyone and welcome to our third quarter 2022 financial results Conference call.
I'll first touch on the development agreement that we announced earlier today.
I'll give you an update on our progress to commercialize our B Tran semiconductor technology, the introduction of our first commercial product <unk>.
Our other key priorities for the remainder of 2022 and Tim Burns, our CFO will take you through the numbers after which we'll take your questions. So let's begin.
Earlier today, we made a very exciting announcements we entered into a development agreement with a top 10 global automotive OEM. This is our second engagement with a top 10 global automaker as we've previously announced that a different top 10 global automakers in our test and evaluation program, we're partnering with this automaker's advanced.
<unk> development team to develop a custom b Tran power module for use in electric vehicle drive cranium burgers and the automakers next generation EV platform.
Ideal power would collaborate on the development of these multi die custom modules with a packaging firm selected by the automaker for their innovative technology.
Automobile manufacturers are looking for innovative solutions and new approaches as they look to differentiate their EV offerings and are especially targeting innovations that can increase vehicle range and reduce cost.
Ideal powers <unk> technology was selected for entry into this program. After the automaker evaluated multiple new suppliers and technologies each was evaluated for its innovation potential performance improvements and return on investment.
We demonstrated that our B Tran technology and its value proposition surpassed that of other power devices and technologies under consideration.
<unk> was selected because it also offers the potential for new inverter topologies, which are not practical with conventional semiconductor devices as a way to improve EV drivetrain and better efficiency.
In addition by leveraging the scale and maturity of the established silicon supply chain, we can offer cost advantages over competing technologies that rely on high cost materials like silicon carbide.
Specifically nutrient offers a way to improve efficiency through its superior performance characteristics overarching booties and MOSFET, including unique inherent by directional capability, requiring fewer components are lower switching on convection losses, leading to reduced cooling requirements and an increase in the range of the electric vehicle or a reduction in the size.
And cost of the battery, which is the largest cost component.
And silicon carbide supply chain improves and cost and quality E. Tran can be fabricated in silicon carbide offering the opportunity to further improve its performance.
Signing our first development agreement is a thrilling moment and we are very much looking forward to beginning our work with this automaker in the coming days.
It represents the culmination of many months of work with the automakers advanced technology and procurement teams as they evaluated a variety of technologies. They are perfect. There are potential performance and cost impact on their future vehicles and the readiness of the technology for incorporation into their development and product Roadmaps.
The program, we announced today is the first step in what is envisioned by the automaker as a multi year program targeting delivery of production ready Silicon Vitreum based modules in 2025.
We'll have to continue to earn a rolling the program as we go along delivering against program requirements and satisfying the key milestones required to make it into actual vehicle production.
We're excited about the magnitude of the opportunity and we're ready for the challenge.
The initial steps in this program will be to start our wafer fabrication run based on our current die in packaging design.
Although by the delivery of initial package devices and demonstration boards.
Initial deliveries will include our new bidirectional driver the power board as part of the automakers evaluation and technology readiness assessment of B Tran for inclusion in future high density power module evaluations and for potential use in EV drivetrain and burgers.
And the development program will further optimize our device designed to incorporate improvements in power density and further improvements we have plans to increase efficiency, while collaborating with the module design firm as they develop the customer multi die module incorporating <unk> into their innovative packaging technology.
This new <unk> module will then go through initial testing and evaluation followed by an automotive qualification process.
The automotive qualification consists of unique and rigorous standards, including testing for things such as stock shock and vibration, which are not applicable at the stationary applications.
Meeting these rigorous standards will benefit our overall commercialization efforts.
The demanding requirements for product quality and long term reliability.
Module will then be evaluated in an EV drivetrain and Burger.
Although it is not part of what is targeted for 2025 production ready modules. There was also a longer term target under the program that our silicon carbide <unk> will be developed for use in EV drivetrain inverters.
The development of a silicon carbide, b Tran, but not only support the EV drivetrain application, but would also enable use cases for innovative power conversion architectures and additional applications such as DC to DC converters equal to grid vehicle to home and vehicle to vehicle charging which required bi directional switching.
Numerous automakers have announced EV roadmaps and some have publicly discussed EV dealership investment requirements to facilitate the transition from the internal combustion engine or ice vehicles to electric vehicles.
Today's high prices due to a higher materials cost and production cost evs are not profitable for most automakers.
Although there is a strong legislative support from the U S government for EV development and adoption automakers need to identify and implement innovative ways to address current materials costs production costs and performance efficiency challenges.
This exerts and pest pressure on their R&D teams to lower EV production costs, while simultaneously improving performance and range.
<unk> offers a distinct advantage over other technologies and EV drivetrain applications and a compelling value proposition.
Having the opportunity to engage with one of the world's largest automakers at such an early stage in the development and adoption of electric vehicles is a particularly exciting opportunity, which we hope to leverage within the EV industry and other applications, where <unk> can bring value and in some cases act as an enabler for new products.
We will share further updates on future calls, but this is a proprietary program. So we need the concurrence of the automaker on what we can publicly share. Our team is very excited to start work with this customer.
Now, let's turn to our work on the United States Navy and our partner diversified technologies.
Last week, we began shipping additional b Tran devices to diversify technologies on our project for the Naval Sea systems command or <unk> to develop and demonstrate a <unk> enabled low loss 12, kilovolt DC solid state breaker for the U S Navy.
This represents another significant accomplishment and advances us toward fulfillment of our program deliverables to DTI in the coming months.
In contrast to prior devices, we delivered to Didi, we delivered the DTI for testing these devices will be paralleled into an array for incorporation into the full scale <unk> solid state circuit breaker that Dci is building the demonstration.
As with the initial devices, we shipped the DTI. These devices were produced using existing silicon wafer processing equipment employing techniques and process flows we developed in collaboration with our wafer fabrication partners.
The process in fabrication techniques. We develop are specifically designed to be used in traditional high volume silicon manufacturing facilities without the need for substantial capital investment in the conventional wafer fabs, thereby removing a potential hurdle in the manufacturing of it inherently bidirectional bidirectional die.
We tested these packaged devices in our lab prior to shipment and they met the past switching and low conduction loss characteristics predicted in our simulations.
These devices are packaged and our latest packaging design utilizes the state of the art techniques designed to provide high reliability.
DTI is currently designing the driver for the solid state circuit breaker and we're supporting them in this effort due to the uniqueness of B Tran bi directional operation at our prior experience in designing a trend driver for discrete devices.
Additional wafers are now being fabricated at both of our development Fab partners and will be diced packaged into devices and tested prior to further shipments to DTI.
The medium voltage DC circuit breaker that results from this project will have direct applicability to military applications and commercial markets, where circuit breakers are in wide use such as electric electric utility distribution and transmission systems, and micro grids as well as solar wind and energy storage installations.
Record breakers perform a critical function of power generation transmission and distribution systems to protect against power surges and short circuits. These.
These needs have traditionally been filled by mechanical circuit breakers, which are orders of magnitude slower growth, the arcing and failure and required manpower in cost to maintain.
Solid state circuit breakers, relying on conventional power semiconductors, such as diabetes have not seen widespread adoption, primarily because of their high conduction losses, which results in wasted energy and the need to dissipate heat produced by their high losses.
<unk> with.
With its fast switching and low conduction losses as it potentially enabling solution for large scale solid state circuit breaker adoption.
We will continue to provide program of technical support through the demonstration of the B Tran enabled breaker and will provide program updates as we're able within the limitations of our nap CE confidentiality restrictions as we've discussed with you before the device and packaging design using this program will be leverage for our customer test and evaluation program.
And for the design of our first commercial products, our technical teams and fabrication and packaging partners has done outstanding work and we're proud to ship. These devices further validating the expected performance of our low loss bidirectional technology DTI and in terms of the Navy.
Our progress introducing our first commercial product by year end, a multi die power module designed primarily for the solid state circuit breaker application continued during the third quarter and we expect to introduce this product by year end.
We continue to receive strong inbound levels of inquiries, particularly in applications involving circa circuit breakers from a broad range of commercial research and government entities and are excited to introduce new B Tran based products to the market in the coming months.
Lots of our test and evaluation program.
Since the start of the third quarter, we further expanded our roster of participants and the <unk> test and evaluation program with three new participants which include non domestic designer and manufacturer of grid solutions interested in evaluating <unk> for solid state circuit breakers and other grid applications.
This further illustrates the high visibility of the Nasty program and the technical community and this community is broad interest in the development of an innovative lower loss fast acting technology, but are necessary to solve fundamental problems in both mechanical circuit breakers and solid state circuit breakers using conventional devices.
<unk> characteristics and benefits make it, particularly well suited to and a potential game changer in the very large circuit breaker market.
Also two universities working closely on technology collaboration with large commercial businesses entered our evaluation program partnering.
Partnering with these universities as an important part of our strategy to capture additional government funding opportunities and to leverage their commercial relationships of these targeted universities with strong industrial companies.
As a reminder, our prospective customers and partners, who were looking to advance their technology Roadmaps will rigorously test and evaluate b Tran for use in their particular applications in their labs. Many considerable in house technical resources to evaluating our cutting edge technology and the improvements in capabilities B Tran can create for them and their product does.
<unk>.
These tests will yield results data and feedback on performance and features will incorporate into our future commercial products and custom modules for use in specific applications.
We have one or more test and evaluation agreements in place in each of our target markets and our pipeline of potential additional collaborations is healthy, especially in the solid state circuit breaker and EV markets.
These relationships are opening new doors to partner on additional government funding opportunities in turn driving additional features and performance requirements for our commercial product offerings.
We expect this repeating cycle of ongoing engagements that resulted in our introducing over time a range of <unk> based modules customized for specific applications as this comment in the traditional power semiconductor market.
Next we continue to submit for other government funding opportunities since.
Since the start of the third quarter and in collaboration with universities and commercial entities. We've submitted several proposals in concept papers for government funding opportunities with the department of energy the department of Defense and NASA.
These submissions include applications in the areas of EV drivetrain solid state circuit breakers for renewables grid and aircraft as well as advanced <unk> concepts.
While the competition for these programs and their funding is very high and the chance of winning any given opportunity is low. This exercise provides us the opportunity to collaborate with current partners and the test and evaluation program and.
Prospective customers that may enter that program and our development agreements with us.
Let's move on to our development activities as we grow closer to B Tran commercialization or development activities are on target.
Our non domestic fabrication partner with high volume production capability successfully completed engineering short loops within wafer handling and front to back feature alignment and validated key process steps for a bidirectional device on existing silicon processing equipment.
We're working well in advance of the need for high volume production, it's been critical for us to validate that some of the unique processing steps for thin double sided wafers are product requires can be addressed in a true production level facility without the need for significant capital equipment expenditures.
<unk> at a high volume fabrication partner will result in improved quality and yield as a result of the elimination of manual wafer handling and rigorous and repeatable quality processes faster runs.
And a greater number of larger diameter wafers per run compares to development Fabs. It will also help us to ensure there'll be sufficient production capacity for the large customers that we're engaging in to mitigate supply chain risks.
We fabricated and successfully tested our latest B Tran driver and have multiple drivers built and ready to support our test and evaluation program.
For this program. We've also designed and fabricated a full test and evaluation kit that will include Retrans device.
Bidirectional driver power board, and enclosure, where safety and ease of connection for instrumentation to facilitate and accelerate setup test and evaluation.
Our technology participants in the program.
As we mentioned on our last call during the third quarter, we completed the qualification of a world class packaging for the transition of our new packaging concept for volume production now have qualified both a domestic and non domestic packaging firm. These.
These firms completed their design work, including a joint design review with US trial mechanical builds and packaged their first devices with the packaging of these devices successfully tested by a third party.
Our packaging partners also have the capability to design and fabricate multi die <unk> modules, which are in high demand and solid state circuit breaker and electric vehicle applications.
One of these firms is working closely with us on our module design and our module design firm to ensure our initial commercial product is manufactured ruble and high volume.
To support the commercialization of <unk>, we engaged a third party firm that will conduct long term reliability testing, which involves amongst other tests tens of thousands of power cycles to assess the mechanical integrity and durability of the design.
In addition, we've identified affirms that conduct additional third party device characterization and testing following the completion of our deliveries under the <unk> program.
We also selected as a design firm who is nearing completion of the packaging design of our first commercial product or multi die power module planned for introduction later this year.
<unk> module packages for die without a driver this type of product is particularly attractive for the solid state circuit breaker application for the driver is typically done at the system level, rather than the module level. We have several participants in our customer sampling program as well as inbound inquiries from potential collaborators focused on the solid state circuit breaker.
Application.
The multi die power module will form the basis of our second commercial product and intelligent power module intelligent power module takes the multi die power module design and as a multibank driver.
This type of product is targeted at the renewables energy storage and other industrial end markets.
We're targeting the introduction of this product in the first half of 2023.
So now with sufficient capability and capacity to support the introduction of our first commercial products at our ongoing development activities, along our product and technology roadmap you are our objectives for the remainder of the year.
First we will start our wafer fabrication runs to support the newly announced development program with a top 10 global automaker.
Second we will complete our first multi die power module design targeting to the introduction of this commercial product by year end. This design will leverage learnings from our discrete device fabrication and packaging efforts.
Third we will continue to collaborate with DTI on our <unk> enabled solid state circuit breaker project for Navy and chips and chip additional B Tran devices. The DTI for incorporation into demonstration of a 12 kilovolt and BDC breaker at a site selected by the Navy.
We expect to complete deliveries to DTI in early 2023 objectives of this program close demonstration is for DTI to introduce a family of NBC The circuit breakers.
Incorporating <unk> for sales to military industrial and utility markets.
Fourth with respect to our B Tran test and evaluation program will fabricate additional customer kits to provide a <unk> device driver power board and safety enclosure to facilitate and accelerate the evaluation process.
After delivery of the kits will gather testing results from these customers that provides feedback on the design and operation of the package devices and driver. The feature set these customers required for each application and their priorities for individual applications.
Then use this feedback the determined common requirements across applications and act as a foundation for the development of future <unk> products.
And as you know our test and evaluation program will remain an embedded process and our sales and marketing effort and we will continue to work to add additional potential customers to it.
Looking at our expanding <unk> patent estate. We currently have 71 issued B Tran patents to 31 of those issues outside of the United States and 22 pending E Tran patents during.
During the quarter two patents were issued in the U S. One related to our driver and another related to our paralleling in controlling multiple <unk> die in a comment module.
Our current geographic coverage includes North America, China, Japan, South Korea, India, and Europe , all of which along with the United States represent all of our high priority geographies for patent coverage.
In summary, we are thrilled to enter our first B Tran product development agreement for our custom module with a top 10 global automaker.
We're also proud of the progress we've made along our roadmap for this year and excited to be shipping additional devices to DTI for NAV C program and introducing our first commercial product a year end.
<unk> unique architecture offers the advantages of inherent bi directional switching capability reduce switching and conduction losses.
Improved and more compact thermal management requirements potentially leading to lower user costs for OEM products, incorporating b Tran in high growth applications.
We're hitting our milestones with the qualification of World class design packaging and testing partners, our growing IP portfolio, the dedicated and talented team and ample cash on our balance sheet.
Cannot wait to start the development program with a top 10 global automaker and launched our first <unk> commercial product, bringing the potential of our technology into reality.
Now I'd like to hand, the call over to Chief Financial Officer, Tim Burns for a review of our third quarter third quarter financial results.
Thank you Dan I'll review third quarter 2022 financial results.
In the third quarter were accorded $11000 in grant revenue with offsetting cost of revenue as we continued our work on the Navy funded NAV C program.
At September 30th Grant revenue of $54000 remains to be recognized under this program.
Operating expenses were $1 8 million for the third quarter of 2022 slightly lower than our expectations compared to $1 7 million in the second quarter of 2022 and $1 $2 million in the third quarter of 2021.
Research and development and sales and marketing expenses were higher in the third quarter 2022, compared to the third quarter of 2021 on.
One wafer costs associated with future fabrication runs as we received wafers. This quarter then we ordered earlier in the year to mitigate potential supply chain delays.
Two higher research and.
Higher search and placement fees and personnel costs due to head count additions to support both B Tran development and our test and evaluation program.
And three other development activities, including the fabrication of D train drivers.
This growth represents our planned investment in development and commercialization activities in advance of introducing our initial commercial product by the end of the year.
General and administrative expenses increased this quarter on higher professional fees operating.
Operating expenses also reflect higher stock based compensation expense.
For the fourth quarter, our development and commercialization plans include <unk>.
Additional wafer fabrication runs, including starting to run under our new development program.
Designing beginning fabrication of introducing our initial commercial product.
Further deliveries to DTI under the <unk> program.
Fabrication of additional B, Tran drivers and customer kits to support the test and evaluation program.
Adding more engineering and product management talent.
Turning to the design of our second commercial product and intelligent power module.
And other B Tran commercialization activities with potential new customers and partners.
We continue to expect some quarter to quarter variability in operating expenses, particularly on research and development spending due to the timing of semiconductor fabrication runs and other development activities in hiring.
As well as the potential impact of additional government funding.
We continue to expect general and administrative expense in the fourth quarter to be relatively flat sequentially.
Putting the impact of stock compensation expense, despite the impact of inflation on the cost of services.
Net loss in the third quarter of 2022 was $1 $7 million compared to $1 $2 million in the third quarter of 2021.
Third quarter 2022 cash used in operating and investing activities was $1 $6 million up from $1 2 million in the third quarter of 2021 and down slightly from $1 7 million in the second quarter of 2022.
This is slightly lower than the expectations, we provided on our second quarter call due to the timing of hiring and other development expenses.
As I mentioned, we continue to invest in both sales and marketing and research and development and now expect the cash burn for full year 2022 of approximately $6 7 million to $6 $9 million.
With our fourth quarter 2022, cash burn of approximately $2 million to $2 2 million.
Cash and cash equivalents totaled $18 5 million at September 32022.
Given our planned cash burn, which remains modest we have ample liquidity on our balance sheet to fund operations as we commercialize our technology and to be well capitalized partner for the broad spectrum of companies that are either already participating or do we expect to participate in the test and evaluation of our B Tran technology as well as the top 10 global.
Automaker that has engaged us for development program.
As of September 30, we had $5 million 903797 shares outstanding and 1 million 4200, 48 warrants outstanding unchanged from the end of June .
Including 625948 stock options and restricted stock units outstanding diluted shares outstanding at September 30 totaled $7 million 569993 shares.
At this time I'd like to open up the call for questions operator.
Thank you.
Like to ask a question please signal by pressing star one on your telephone keypad.
If you are using a speaker phone. Please make sure. Your mute function is turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment.
Ken Please press star one to ask a question.
We'll pause for just a moment to allow everyone an opportunity to signal for questions.
Our first question comes from David Schneider Private Investor. Please go ahead.
Yes, Hi, I.
I have to apologize initially because I actually have seven questions.
<unk>.
As far as the development agreement with the automotive OEM, what do you think might be the soonest. It could go buy a vehicle.
With your technology in it.
As far as a year.
Yes, we're targeting production ready devices from us in 2025, So I would think it's 2025 or 2026, depending on the timing of when they roll those out.
Okay. Okay.
That's really not that far away, especially from an investment point of view.
And I would think that the automakers are really focused on how do they shortened that cycle for getting their electric vehicle products out. It's just we can't follow the traditional five year path. It's just we don't have that luxury.
Yes.
What about.
I've seen other breakthrough technologies in electrification first take hold and let's say not in the auto industry, but actually in motorcycles. So it's a little surprising to me that well.
We don't have a very large sample size, but.
I'm wondering.
If you if you are talking to any of the motorcycle companies.
We're not really engage with the motorcycle folks, but where we are engaged with our and there are actually companies that are already in our sampling program that our FERC was focused on commercial vehicles delivery trucks buses and so forth.
Where the standards are a little bit different but there is a desire in electrification there as well.
Okay. Okay, that's very good.
Also as far as modules per vehicle.
<unk>.
I'm wondering if the number of B Tran modules per vehicle with very diverse.
If youre talking about a sedan versus an SUV.
Because that could help establish although it would be extremely back of the envelope.
I have to assume.
<unk> a b.
<unk> module would sell for and what your margins would be.
But how many modules per vehicle and with it Barry.
It will vary because the.
The number of modules will be a function of what's the rating size of the battery, which will drive what's the total.
<unk> current yet to support it.
But also it depends on the topology that they use because one of the things that <unk> enables us some different apologies and what you can do with conventional semiconductor devices. So there's a couple of things to come in the mix that really reflect some of the novelty that we see some of the automakers pursuing to come up with a differentiated high performance approach.
The vehicles that they bring out.
Okay.
And Toyota is hedging.
Hedging its bets on electrification there they've got out there spending a lot of money on researching hydrogen as a fuel. So is there any role for b Tran and hydrogen fueled vehicles.
Yes, absolutely.
The fuel cells when they produce the energy I mean, it's.
Basically a lower voltage DC form depending on how big the fuel cell stack is that ultimately has to go through power switches to convert it to different voltages and convert DC to AC or again AC to DC, depending on how they configure their systems. So they would definitely be a role for us it wouldn't be as big as if we were the key component of the drive.
Training conventional battery, but there's definitely a role for for B Tran and hydrogen vehicles.
Okay, that's very good.
And as.
As a result of you getting let's say more visibility.
And the engineering community, because youre getting more partners.
Are you finding that engineers are starting are you getting more inbound calls from engineered saying, hey, I'm interested in working there.
Yes.
We're seeing it slowly starting to improve as people are becoming aware of the technology things like the award that we won with our APAC paper and so forth.
And the visibility where people want to learn more and it's just getting some inbound people responding to some of our job postings, rather than having to find them through the recruiter.
Outside of that is.
The capability of our technical team is very high so the standards of who they are willing to hire to work with is also equally high so it's getting better.
But it's nice to actually see some people that are reaching out to us rather than having to rely on recruiters to try and find people.
Yeah, No I don't think there is downside to having that.
Super highly qualified engineers at your firm.
While the cost of that.
Good job is high so were particular.
Yeah Yeah.
Intuitively I would think that.
There is more let's call it a bigger bang for the Buck.
The larger the vehicle.
Incorporating b Tran.
Alright.
Because if you had.
General Motors Honda your Hummer.
I don't know how many how much that thing ways, but on the battery pack must.
It's probably the way to have a baby elephant, but so I would think that there is a greater role for B Tran.
Based on maybe based on the size of the vehicle would that be correct.
Yes, Youre, correct and Thats part of why.
Rather than looking at the motorcycles, we have been focusing more on the commercial vehicles and buses as people who get into sampling program. In addition to just the <unk>.
Passenger vehicles.
Okay, well I know the electrification of buses.
There is a huge effort.
So I'll get off right now and let other people ask questions. Thank you.
Thanks, David.
Yeah.
Our next question comes from Kelly Chairman private Investor. Please go ahead.
Hey, guys. Congrats on today's announcement Thats great stuff.
Thank you.
The Drivetrain company you talked about today are they only going to be making drive trains for themselves.
Or is this going to be an opportunity where they are going to be actually be.
Selling them on the open market.
We don't see anybody yet that are the big established automakers wanting to do that but that doesn't mean it won't change as part of their own strategies to build volume. This is an automaker that has multiple brands that you would recognize so I think they're looking for what are the platforms that they actually want to start with and how can they build those platforms.
Within the rest of the brands that they've manufacturer.
Okay and on July 22021, you guys announced top 10 automaker to go onto the sampling program is this a different automaker than what you announced on July 22021.
Yes. It is.
We now have two of the top 10 global automakers engage with us in one form or another this is obviously the deeper level of engagement since we're actually going to go do a custom module with them, but the one that we announced previously is a different automaker.
Okay, where do we stand with them right now as far as.
Moving the ball forward.
They are signed up with the sampling program. Our teams have met with them and then basically as soon as we get through our deliveries for <unk>, we will be shipping them parts and drivers for their evaluation and hopefully we can build that into a custom module program like the one we just announced today.
Okay, and then where do we stand with the power management company is that progressing along nicely.
Yes. It is part of this is our teams kind of have to work together.
One for us to get them up to speed on B Tran and how it operates but also for us to learn their application a little bit. So we can guide them.
How to incorporate it and get the most out of it so the folks that we've got engaged in the program a lot of them are still in that learning curve process, where we're making them smarter about the device work. They can do their own circuit design and simulation work to get ready to get devices in hand, so as they test it in the context of their application they hit the ground running.
Okay, and then last one I got you guys for the EV charging companies I know you guys have somebody in the sampling program at the last trade show Bi directionality was.
One of the number one topic at the show are you seeing a significant.
A number of inbound activity from the EV charging company because I'm surprised that you only have one in the sample program right now do you anticipate that number to grow quickly.
Yes, we do.
Thank you.
The early EV charging stations that were being put out there. We're really all about how do you get something out there to satisfy the demand, but what's happening now is I think part of what's driving all of this the discussion of bi directionality with them is they're finding that for a lot of these locations, particularly in urban areas. They have a couple of storage batteries to deal with mitigating.
The demand charges, where people want to charge their vehicles during peak hours of the utility rates.
The offerings from the EV charging companies are getting a little bit more sophisticated they're having more capability and it drives the need for a little better solutions than just taking the conventional semiconductor devices and designing a huawei charging system.
How far along with you are the company that sampling currently how far along with you or are you with them.
Most of them are.
Probably to the point, where they're ready for us to give them devices. We've got a couple more and we're doing some circuit analysis with them, but as soon as we complete the nasty deliveries. We've got several that are ready to go.
Okay. Congratulations again, you guys very proud of the job you guys are doing keep it up.
Thank you very much Kelly.
Once again, if you would like to ask a question. Please press star one.
And our next question comes from Bruce <unk> private Investor. Please go ahead.
Hi.
Thanks for taking my call and.
Congratulations on the agreement today.
Thank you very much.
Follow up on that.
The article says Huston and Burger so when Youre done development to you on that and bird or design or just a car company and inter changeable.
To another companies is it exclusive.
Automobile so you'd never make it harder for someone else how does that work well.
Yes, we're actually not going to make the inverter, we're just going to make the semiconductor devices that go into the inverter.
We will work with a packaging firm that has some unique purchase to semiconductor packaging that had been selected by this automaker also.
And then what the automaker will do will they will take the design work that we do collaboratively with packaging firm and they are designing an inverter for their plan their EV platforms as a part of that now it'll be the inverter design will be there is all the work that we do.
As part of our technology remains ours, and we're not constrained being able to work with any other automakers or anybody else as a result of what we're doing.
Okay. So.
If I understand correctly.
No one outside of it would appear this automobile company ebay either I guess, maybe have gotten a b Tran <unk> just working.
Through.
The design of it on paper.
No one in the test and evaluation has to be trend yet that's not too long. After your <unk> is that correct.
Correct the deliveries for NAV C.
They need large numbers of devices for the breaker.
So those deliveries since we have a contractual obligation is coming first.
And then we are ready to support the folks in the sampling program with the work that we've been doing with getting their drivers ready getting the sampling kit ready for them and then being able to provide devices for them. What's the nasty deliveries are done.
So yes lapsing it sounded like you were going to get DTI and that by the end of the first quarter.
If I'm sitting here.
Mid next year.
That you've delivered to Nab see how many people do you think will have a device from your test and evaluation.
Mid year or the end of the third quarter were where will these people finally get.
510 agreements you have.
How many agreements are out there and how many is it by midyear you see them having AMR.
Third quarter, what could we expect from that perspective.
I expect we will see the people that are in the program what kind of prioritize them in terms of those that we think we want to serve first so they do take some technical support but we would expect most of the major players that we really want to capture would have devices.
The whole sampling kit with driver in the first half of the year.
Okay, perfect Alright, well, thank you for taking my questions.
Sure thing.
And it appears there are no further questions at this time, Mr. <unk> I'd like to turn the conference back to you for any additional or closing remarks.
I just want to thank everybody for joining our call we will be participating in the benchmark discovery conference in December and hope to be able to speak with those that are in attendance in the meantime have a happy and safe holiday season, and we look forward to giving you another update on our fourth quarter call.
This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation and you may now disconnect.
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Okay.
Okay.
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Yeah.