Q2 2023 Core Molding Technologies Inc Earnings Call
Good morning, everyone welcome to the core molding technologies second quarter fiscal 2023 financial results conference call. All participants will be in listen only mode should you need assistance. Please signal a conference specialist by pressing Star then zero on your.
Telephone keypad. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions to ask you. A question you May Press Star then one on your telephone keypad to withdraw your question. Please press Star then two please note. This event is being recorded.
Now I will turn the call over to Sandy Martin.
Three part advisors. Please go ahead.
Thank you and good morning, everyone. We appreciate you joining us for the core molding technologies Conference call to review second quarter results for 2023, joining me on the call today are core moldings, President and CEO , Dave to ball and the company's EVP and CFO John Zimmer.
This call is also being webcast and can be accessed through the audio link on the events and presentations page of the Investor Relations section at core M T Dot com.
Today's call, including the Q&A session will be recorded please be advised that any time sensitive information may no longer be accurate as of the date of any replay or transcript reading.
I would also like to remind you that the statements made in today's discussion that are not historical facts, including statements or expectations or future events or future financial performance are forward looking statements and are made pursuant to the safe Harbor provisions of the private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.
Yes.
Forward looking statements by their nature are uncertain and outside of the company's control actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied.
Please refer to the earnings press release that was issued today for our disclosures on forward looking statements. These factors and other risks and uncertainties are described in detail in the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission core molding technologies assumes no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward looking.
Right much management will refer to non-GAAP measures, including adjusted EBITDA free cash flow and return on capital employed.
Reconciliations to the nearest GAAP measures can be found at the end of our earnings release. Finally, the earnings press release, we issued earlier today is posted on the Investor Relations section of our web site at core M T Dot com.
A copy of the release has also been included in an 8-K submitted to the SEC and now I would like to call turn the call over to Dave to ball Dave.
Thank you Sandy.
Good morning, and welcome to our second quarter earnings call.
We're excited to share several important accomplishments this quarter first I want to share that the end of June core joined the Russell 3000 index. This major milestone as well as our record second quarter are a direct result of our winning culture driven by a dedicated team and their relentless focus on customer support and content.
He also improvements.
I wanted to thank our hard working team of talented people for executing core shared vision for growth and driving improvements in our business every day.
Before we talk about our results I want to briefly provide a few other comments.
As we discussed last quarter, one of course for strategic growth initiatives for 'twenty to 'twenty three is our commitment to profitability improvement through our must win battle of achieving higher operational performance across all core locations. We are focused on operational excellence and continually improving production efficiencies.
We understood that a disciplined execution of our operational excellence initiatives. In 2023 would result in increased gross margins again this quarter I'm excited to share that our gross margin for the quarter increased to 21%. This was the highest quarterly gross margin in over a decade.
If you remember during the last few quarters, our quarterly calls John Zimmer said he wanted to see it start with it too so great forecasting job.
Sequentially. This is a 320 basis point improvement.
From the first quarter and an increase of 780 basis points from Q2 of last year.
I believe these results are a direct evidence that the business transformation is progressing well and more importantly, gaining momentum by consolidating the improvements or compound them.
We know that our successful gross margin expansion. This year as a result of our relentless focus on our operational execution material cost recoveries and technical solution sales, especially as we expand into new or adjacent markets.
I'm excited to see that our must win battle for 2023 is fully embedded in our operational excellence processes and supporting our continuous improvement culture.
We remain strategically focused on optimizing plant capacity through improvements in operational performance and we are continually driving near term opportunities within our sheet molding compound business for.
For the first half of the year, we increased our productivity by 15% and our focus plants recall that when we reported an 8% productivity improvement in Q1. So we are proud to report the continued improvements in our overall plant productivity, which reduces cost increases our machine capacity and reduce it.
The demand on our technical resources, which is a significant opportunity cost as we look forward.
I appreciate how focused our operational teams are driving a supporting our 2023 must win battle.
The cross functional teams are providing on site support and facilitating system improvements kaizen events and organizational development processes.
When battle means it's a priority for all of us.
Now turning more specifically to the quarter second quarter product sales demonstrated the benefits of diversification and we continued to see strength in our transportation and power sports industries with Q2 softening mostly in building products.
Compared to first quarter sales of medium and heavy duty truck shifted back below 50% of our mix and power sports and industrial utilities industrial and utilities grew in the second quarter as.
As we mentioned last quarter, we continue to win programs in the industrial and utilities categories, specifically related to storm water solutions flush cover and ground vault products.
Our technical solutions team signed new contracts in the first half of the year.
Will contribute new and replacement annualized revenue of approximately $12 million.
We are expecting to launch in 2023 and in early 2024.
These programs relate primarily to new business in the industrial and power sports industries.
We are excited to launch these programs as they further differentiate our business into growing in markets, where we provide high value engineered solutions.
We will continue to focus on margin enhancement by offering a differentiated solution with new and existing customers that seek improve product performance lower cost of ownership and reduced manufacturing complexities.
Finally regarding our sustainability efforts. We are currently in the certification process for Kors Eco Baba's rating and we expect this to be completed by mid August .
Certification further supports the value proposition of several industrial and utility customers. We continue to work with customers to increase their usage of recycled material. We are developing a completely recycle solution by converting from traditional materials.
All of these efforts closely align with our strategy of providing a technical one proprietary solution by utilizing our wide portfolio of processes and over 80 process.
This is especially important for our long term relationships with Blue chip companies, where we provide single source manufacturing a range.
We firmly believe that driving sustainable solutions for our customers will create long term value for our customers shareholders and of course core molded.
With that I'd like to now I'll turn it over to John to cover the financials in more detail.
Thank you, Dave and good morning, everyone.
It continues to drive our four strategic growth initiatives this year and our financial results reflect this hard work record second quarter numbers were mostly the result of a combination of selling price improvements and operational efficiencies as Dave mentioned, our team has stepped up to drive production production improvement and we believe more improvements are attainable.
A direct result of our focus to improve operational performance since the company's ability to generate free cash flow and improve return on capital employed which we will discuss in a few moments.
Our trailing 12 month adjusted EBITDA through the second quarter totaled $45 million, our highest ever in the company's history. This gives us confidence that our strategic growth initiatives initiatives are progressing and I want to congratulate our team on their hard work.
Turning to our financials second quarter 2023, net sales were $97 7 million compared to $98 7 million a year ago.
<unk> sales increased two 6% versus the prior year period, which were largely driven by black customer demand coupled with increased customer prices pricing primarily to recover changes in raw material cost.
Gross profit for the second quarter rose to $26 million or 21% of sales compared to $13 million or 13, 2% of sales in the prior year quarter.
During the quarter margin expansion was primarily due to production efficiencies as well as customer price improvements. We continue to see the U S dollar weakened against the Canadian dollar and peso in the second quarter.
Which is a negative impact of about 100 basis points on gross gross margin.
We actively hedge a portion of our exposure to the Mexican peso and the Canadian dollar, but still experienced an overall negative impact to earnings by the change in the dollar.
Selling general and administrative expenses for the quarter were $10 $5 million compared to $8 7 million in the prior year period the.
The increase was primarily due to year over year variable compensation compensation related cost relating to our improving performance for sure.
In the second quarter, the company's company reported operating income of $10 $1 million, an increase of more than two times. The operating income of $4 $4 million from the year ago quarter. Our operating income margins for the second quarter were 10, 3% up 590 basis points from the 2022.
Prior year quarter, our effective tax rate for the second quarter was 19, 3% and included a $535000 tax benefit related to stock compensation recorded in the period excluding.
Excluding the tax benefit our effective rate would've been 24, 7% consistent with the first quarter.
Net interest expense declined based on our debt refinancing last year and our investment income generated from excess cash balances in this period.
Net income was $7 9 million or <unk> 91 per diluted share versus last year's diluted EPS of <unk> 26.
An increase of over 250% <unk>.
Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was 13, $813 7 million or 14, 1% of sales compared to an adjusted EBITDA margin of 8% in the prior year quarter. We are pleased with our progress on gross margin EBITDA margin expansion reflected in our second quarter results and we believe that more operational improvements are still attainable.
Our GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliation tables are included at the end of our press release.
Now turning to the first half results net sales for the first six months totaled $197 2 million up four 2% versus a year ago and product sales increased five 9% versus the prior year period.
Similar to the second quarter or first half sales increase increases were largely driven by momentum in transportation and power sports first half gross margin was $38 3 million or 19, 4% of sales compared to $27 6 million or 14, 6% of sales in the year ago period.
Consistent with the second quarter or first half margin percentage was primarily due to production efficiencies and favorable net customer pricing and raw material costs.
SG&A expenses for the first half were $20 2 million compared to $17 2 million in the prior year period.
Operating income for the first six months was $18 1 million an increase of 75% from the 2022 first half year to date earnings were similarly impacted by foreign currency headwinds lower net interest expense and tax benefits discussed before.
Net income aggregated $13 $8 million or $1 59 per diluted share compared to $6 1 million or <unk> 71 per diluted share in the comparable year period first half adjusted EBITDA was 24, $25 9 million or 13, 2% of sales compared to $17 5 million in.
The prior year.
In 2020 to 23 the company is beginning to see a return to normal seasonality. After several years of unusual seasonality, resulting from COVID-19 and supply chain challenges.
Based on normal seasonality the company anticipates, the second half of 2023 sales and gross margin percent will be lower than the first half of 2023.
The business see seasonality has a direct impact on our product sales volume and mix, we anticipate that a combination of normal seasonality and the slowdown in some of our markets will result in a full year product sales for the 2020 for either flat to slightly lower than the full year product sales in 2022.
We also anticipate the second half gross margins will be impacted by normal seasonality, resulting in mixed shifts coupled with potentially lower fixed cost leverage, which we expect will produce a full year gross margin in the range of 17% to 19% compared to the full year 2022 gross margin of 13, 9%.
Turning now to the Companys financial position.
Starting with a discussion of cash flow the company's cash provided by operating activities were $18 9 million for the six months ended June 32023, and capital expenditures for the year were $4 $5 million, resulting in a positive free cash flow of $14 4 million for the first half of the year.
We expect to generate free cash flows for the remainder of the year as operating cash flows are expected to outpace capital expenditures and working capital continues to be tightly managed.
Our full year capital expenditures are estimated to be between 11% and $13 million in 202023.
At June 30, the company had ample liquidity of $64 2 million to invest in and grow the business, which includes a combination of cash and cash equivalents and available is availability under the revolver and capital credit lives are.
The company also had term debt of $23 6 million at the end of June and our debt to trailing 12 month EBITDA ratio remains less than one times adjusted EBITDA at the end of the second quarter.
Our working capital continues to be well managed and netted to $45 million as of June and we ended the quarter with accounts receivable of $54 million with a DSO of 48 to 46 days down from 48 days in Q1.
Inventories were well controlled and remain less than one times account pet accounts payable at the end of June .
Finally, our return on capital employed a pretax return metric improved to 23, 6% on an annualized basis, driven by a disciplined use of capital.
Plan to continue to manage our capital deployments in a prudent and strategic manner and believe that a combination of good liquidity and a strong balance sheet provides flexibility to focus on our growth strategic growth initiatives.
As Dave discussed we continue to work on operational efficiencies at all our plants and the higher margin technical solution sales to improve margins and reduce the impact of product mix shifts in our business.
Our must win battles for 2023 includes instead of institutionalizing major productivity and quality improvements as well as scrap reductions labor productivity and reduction of overhead spending.
We're also focused on operational improvements with our new product launches, which usually take up to a year from launch to work out all the operational efficiencies.
Our operational performance and efficiency goals are targeting further long term gross margin enhancement as well as increased capacity throughput and return on capital our full attention and focus as a company is on our four strategic growth initiatives that include revenue growth technical solution sales profitability improvements and free cash flow Gen.
Ration and all of our goal objective and target slowdown from these.
And we plan to stay on course with consistency and focus on main by maintaining our operational performance enhancements as well as working on additional continuous improvement initiatives and the entire management team is dedicated to our strategic growth and profitability goals with programs to drive long term value creation.
With that I'd like to turn it back to day for some final comments.
Thank you John .
And then working to maintain a 15% productivity improvement in the first six months of this year, So and we'll continue to take daily operational discipline and continual improvement.
We have upgraded our frontline leader Onboarding and training and four locations and will continue to roll this out across the organization.
As both John and I have explained our must win battle for 'twenty to 'twenty three is about fully embedding the continuous improvement systems into our more challenged operations, which benefits our sheet molding compound plants. The most.
But the system at a systematic improvements in place and sustain we can now focus on scaling the continuous improvement structure and company wide cross functional technical projects. We have also expanded our internship program and have incorporated an apprenticeship and educational co op program in some locations.
We are providing technical training by partnering with external agencies for funding and facilitated technical programs. All of this is to support and strengthen our team and in turn strengthen our organizational capabilities.
We have communicated a roles throughout the organization, which places a high level of focus into driving speed and quality of event on our must win Battle initiative.
We will continue to increase productivity reduce cost and expand our cat capacity by as much as 20% within the focus locations. This drives better return metrics on our investments and creates a stronger foundation for success as we plan for the next level of growth hormone.
We have communicated that we plan to add capacity and we are currently evaluating the best approach either by acquisition facility expansion or Greenfield site.
As I mentioned last quarter, we were also adding additional automation to support further production efficiencies reduce cost and increase capacity.
Our 2023 must win Battle was a foundational step in maximizing current machine capacity and freeing up technical expertise before investing in step function growth.
Which will accelerate our long term value creation and shareholder returns.
Our 'twenty to 'twenty three outlook.
Includes continuing to expand our revenue diversification by industry with high value engineered solutions that enhance our margin profiles further.
We are monitoring the demand environment and customer forecast in the second half of 'twenty, three and into 'twenty, four and are continuing to calibrate asset in labor utilization.
We are cautiously optimistic about the rest of 2023 and believe that the first half performance has set us up well for a strong full year 2023 performance compared to 2022, we're.
We're taking advantage of opportunities in various industries that require new solutions, including opportunities, resulting from government funded infrastructure and sustainability projects.
Coming into 2023, we understood that we needed all locations operating at a high level not just most of them and making this happen was foundational for successfully executing the long term growth of the company.
We believe our progress in the first half of the year. It set us up to turn more of our attention to growing the company both organically and through acquisitions. Our team is ready to drive the company forward towards our long term goals and to deliver long term short shareholder value.
Finally.
We will be at the Midwest ideas conference in Chicago on August 24th if you would like to meet with US in person and we welcome your questions on today's call or want to follow a follow up call with that I would like to open up the line for questions operator.
We will now begin the question and answer session.
To ask a question you May press Star then one on your telephone keypad if.
If you're using a speaker phone please pick up your handset before pressing the keys.
If at any time your question has been addressed and you'd like to withdraw. Your question. Please press Star then two.
At this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster.
The first question comes from Tim Moore with E F Hutton.
Please go ahead.
Thanks, and congratulations on the very strong gross margin and operating margin expansion I mean like you said it was.
The highest margin in over a decade, maybe I just want to start out first with.
Sales guidance.
You you kind of elaborate on that and is my understanding correct that a lot of it has to do with the seasonality you know last year might have been some tail end of.
Pandemic demand catch up still production in full swing and an abnormally high for power sports and even maybe some of the commercial trucks, but you expect a more normalized seasonality for this year and that would explain the sales a tough comparable from last year.
Yeah, that's a really good view on it Tim I think what we've seen in the past with Covid and the supply chain shortages. There were a lot of changes that customers made to either extend their product lines or fill the dealerships and build a pipeline. So I think we're seeing that coming back with the supply chain shortages reduced.
On my back to the normal seasonality, which we've always seen as far as Q.
Q1, Q2, being the highest and then Q3 tailing off and in Q4, when it's really into the holiday season.
Well, that's exactly what we're seeing this year.
Okay, Great. That's helpful color and my next question revolves around your.
Production efficiencies and you know your 15% productivity improvement goal this year.
So this is a two part question.
Where do you think you are in that 15% improvement for productivity this year.
And it.
You know, it's it's fair for me to probably assume that for your gross margin guidance of <unk>.
17% to 19%.
For the year that you might be at the lower end of the range.
By doing 19, 4% in the first half of the year, but.
Just given the way that that seasonality lined up for the second half of the year on our sales.
You think maybe it'd be at the lower end of another 17% to 19% gross margin for the year.
Yeah I'll answer the first Washington, and then leave it to John for the second question on the forecast so as far as the productivity, we're really looking at the overall productivity. The two plants in question are the SMC plants were 15%. We said from the beginning that we would probably get about at least 20% overall.
Throughput for those plants for the year. So I think we're trending in that.
That direction and what we're seeing right now is you.
You got to get to some level of sustainability before you start moving onto the next phase. So we're seeing that sustainability take place in.
Those plants become integrated into the overall continuous improvement processes for the entire company.
Yeah, and Tim on the 17 to 19, you know I think right now we would say we're pretty comfortable that we're kind of in the middle of that what will happen is that well you know over the next six months volumes mean, a lot it will determine our fixed cost leverage and so we'll watch the volumes and you know from the seasonality.
And where we take revenue volumes come in and then the other piece is a little bit of mix are you know mix can change throughout the six months, we get forecast from customers, but to tell you. The truth. Those forecasts are probably good for about a month then they they constantly change and so a little bit of mix comes into play also but we're probably right now thinking that we're right about in the middle of that but well.
We'll watch volumes and mix is what will really drive the the difference between 17 and 19.
That's very helpful color, Dave and John Yeah. My next question is around SG&A, you know I noticed it ticked up.
In the June quarter, and I'm guessing, it's probably because of the way you do.
Bonus accruals should we expect SG&A as a percentage of sales to be.
Lower in the second half of the year than it was in the first half of the year.
Maybe not as a percent of sales you know the way I look at it is theres a fixed piece of our SG&A and then Theres a variable there really the variable piece of our SG&A is our bonus compensation, we do try to match our bonus expense with our earnings you know do a matching principle from accounting and so you know the first half of the year periods most of the bonus.
<unk> are a lot of the bonus expense and then pieces of it go away or it's a lot less during the second half of the year the way I kind of look at it as our fixed run rate of SG&A is around $8 $5 million.
Is where it is that's really just the people who come to work every day the normal pay and those types of things and then any difference between $8 5 million in and what you see in the SG&A is usually a bonus accrual type thing and so you can see for the first couple of months first quarter. It was about $1 1 million in this quarter. It was 1.9 I would expect bonus expense.
Accrual to go down in the third and fourth quarter, just because again, we try to match that with earnings and we think earnings will be a little bit lower in the third and fourth quarter.
Well that's helpful. My next question is more strategic.
This is a great attribute of your.
Capacity expansion goals and you know as David said before it's a combination of organic.
And just you know internal expansion brownfield, but.
Can you give us maybe a sense you know if maybe your goal or near term goal is 20% capacity expansion you.
How long does something like the utility of certification.
Hum month wise, maybe and and then when do you how long is kind of lead time from when you get the automation machines in and certified to when you start seeing a ramp up in sales for some of that maybe $12 million of new launches that you mentioned in your prepared remarks.
Yeah, I mean, if I look at it just a standard law too little very say anywhere between say at the minimum six months, if youre transferring a program to about 18 months or so as far as the overall launch I think the big thing for us, though it's a continual process. So we haven't stopped.
Often there are still programs that are in our pipeline that we're working on now are looking at what we can do to capacity as that volume, whether that's acquisition or Greenfield site.
For an expansion of our current facilities, which we had been doing but you know we're at a point now where we're in a brick and mortar situation.
Great. That's very helpful. My last question is around free cash flow you know I feel like investors really haven't caught onto this you've been doing a lot of growth capex, but it really.
I've shown through in this quarter with.
$14 million of free cash flow in the first half of this year already 12 billion just in the June quarter.
As you think about the second half of the year, you know with the natural sales cadence that you talked about and probably some working capital benefit maybe as you collect a ars and receivables.
Would I be off thinking that you know maybe you could do it.
<unk> million of free cash flow this year, if you've already achieved 14.
Yeah, Tim I think you know I don't think it would be off and you know again, we do believe we'll generate cash flows for the second half of the year also I think you know where we are now with our operational improvements we've made even in a slower sales.
We believe well will kick off.
Operating cash flows.
You know pretty good operating cash flows.
You know it really probably from a free cash flow it'll it'll matter, how much of that $11 million to $13 million of Capex. We can do you know it's not always about.
Not wanting to spend it it's about trying to get the projects done and in and find resources to do the projects are sometimes just getting equipment in that you've ordered and stuff and so I think no I don't think you would have a problem at the upper end of the teens, there that free cash flow for the year as an initial projection.
Yeah.
Well, Thanks, John and Dave. This is very helpful and insightful and I look forward to our continued EBITDA and our profitability enhancement over the next couple of years, that's it for my questions.
I appreciate it thanks.
The next question comes from J P Gagan with global value Investment Corporation. Please go ahead.
Thanks, and good morning, gentlemen.
My first question has been answered and parts in a number of different ways, but at the risk of asking you to repeat yourself, but I'll ask it again.
Done a great job I'm really optimized for your asset base and improving productivity and you've talked in a lot of ways about kind of this must win battle for 'twenty 23, and the productivity is still expect to gain but looking forward beyond 'twenty three how should we expect you to grow organically.
Using your existing asset base.
Given the comments, you've made about automation or other efficiency improvements or maybe said another way how much can you really squeeze out of the existing business before you're forced to turn to something inorganic and then maybe the second part of the question, which is is connected to this what form or what.
How will you decide the form that inorganic.
Growth will take in terms of acquisition versus Greenfield.
<unk> geography.
Kind of decision tree.
So on the first Washington, J P. I think it's a good question you know for US we've been evaluating and a lot of it really has to do with how far we can get our current systems. We have currently filled all the what I would say the holes in our plants.
Where you have a you can put a large asset into the pit and the facility. So we've really maxed out the facilities relative to being able to put large presses in place that was the first step there are step right now is really about maximizing the output of all of the facilities with all the assets.
So that's really the must win battle and what that does is free up the resources and stabilize the operational system. So that now we're ready to look at what acquisitions, we can do and make those acquisitions.
Acquisitions quickly and successfully with the resources and being able to put it in the core operational model. So that that's really kind of the overall plan that we had from the beginning.
What I would say that you know continual continuous improvement as we continue to put in automation and improvements yeah, you're not going to see 20% to 25% a year, maybe it's 4% to 6% a year somewhere below 10% a year on your existing assets, but there is where we're really looking at do we need to expand the facility do a greenfield or.
Do an acquisition and I think that really depends on what the strategic benefit is of it if we have four or five different areas that we want to get out of an acquisition whether that sales channels capacity, a new technology or a new material and process. It depends on how many of those are fixed and.
Where where that fits within the a does it make more sense to do the acquisition then do the expansion.
Okay.
Alright, that's helpful. Because that's a long time to your question.
It's a very comprehensive though and I appreciate the additional color. It's helpful to understand the thought process that you go through this.
In terms of capital allocation I think for investors, who have been around for a while the.
The state of the H P I acquisition at least initially.
It turned out to be a good acquisition to change but.
You might you might a bit off a little bit more than you can chew from a financial standpoint.
How do you think about funding expansion after this and then.
How should we think about your.
Your capital allocation priority is given that you're bumping up against capacity in your existing infrastructure.
Yeah, and I think I mean, we will take the actually a little bit of the same process. We took back in 2018 when would when we did horizon, we went into that deal and we're less than two times EBITDA. When we did all our models.
Don't know that we really thought we were going to go into the turnaround in the traditional business that we did which really caused us the issue, but I don't think we've mentally or changed strategically on how we look at the capital. We are not an aggressive company, where we're gonna go out 345 times and our EBITDA and leverage up the balance sheet, we are gonna be pretty responsible will probably.
It'll be between two to two five times, we'll make sure we model out you know even during downturns and everything else that we can handle whatever leverage we bring on to the financial statements. So I think we'll stay pretty conservative in that standpoint, not over lever the balance sheet. The benefit. We have now is that our EBITDA is much higher even until it does allow us probably.
And we're a much more diversified company so it reduces the risk of <unk>.
Any certain industry.
The down turn in any certain industry hurting our financials and so I think we're in a much better position now, but we're probably in the same thought process. It wouldnt be any more than two to two and a half times.
As far as internal growth capital. The nice thing is is that we set ourselves up about a year ago. When we did the Capex line. You know we went into that the debt structure that we have that as a five year debt structure that allows us to you know if we if we wanted to do expansion.
This capex, we have you know our cash on hand, plus we have a capex line specifically.
For that that.
Has separate covenants and rules and in payments and those types of things, so I think that $25 million there.
To really allow us to expand the business organically and growing organically. If we wanted to so I think we're really set up with different ways to finance the business, but we're not going to get overly aggressive we'll stay EBITDA Turner.
No more levered than probably two to two and a half on an acquisition, probably even less than that just through organic growth.
Okay and finally for me.
Talk a little bit about the labor situation, you're seeing today is that's been the nexus of some cost pressures for a couple of years now.
Yeah, I mean, what we were seeing a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago. It was not nearly what we're seeing today.
Most and in most of our locations we've had to adapt for sure as far as our labor wage rates as far as being competitive and constantly watching that relative to the areas of new business. If they're moving in so we're constantly looking at that we've done a lot with our onboarding and our training and our.
He used to where it's a trying to make it a better place than when people come in and work. So that they don't go somewhere else or have the the want to go somewhere else. So we've done a very holistic view of it on what we need to do for sure there's always more to do and improve.
And we continue to do that but I would say the area that that's still I think everyone. I've talked to has challenges is really more on the skilled trades or hands on technical like plc programming and controls and things like that.
Okay. Thanks for taking my questions today I appreciate it alright, thanks, David.
Again, if you have a question. Please press Star then one.
This concludes our question and answer session I would like to turn the conference back over to Dave <unk> for any closing remarks.
Thank you for your continued interest in our company, we look forward to providing an update of our progress when we report the third quarter results in a few months. Thank you.
The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation you may now disconnect.
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