Q4 2023 PDF Solutions Inc Earnings Call
Good day, everyone and welcome to the PDF Solutions, Inc Conference call to discuss its financial results for the fourth quarter and year end 2023 conference call ending Sunday December 31st 2023 at this time all participants are in a listen.
Only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question answer session to ask a question. During the session you will need to press star one one on your telephone as a reminder, this conference is being recorded if you have not yet received a copy of the corresponding press release. It has been posted pdfs website at.
Www Dot Pds dotcom.
Some of the statements that will be made in the course of this conference are forward looking statements, including statements regarding pdf's future financial results and performance growth rates and demand for its solutions.
Pdf's actual results could differ materially you should refer to the section entitled risk factors on pages 17 through 30 of Pdf's annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31st 2022, and similar disclosures in subsequent SEC filings.
Forward looking statements and risks stated in this conference call are based on information available to PDF today PDF assumes no obligation to update them now I'd like to introduce John Colbert in P. D S President and Chief Executive Officer, and odd non Rosa Pdf's Chief financial.
Officer, Mr. Colbert Yan. Please go ahead.
Thank you for joining us on today's call if you've not already seen our earnings press release and management report for the fourth quarter and the full year. Please go to the investors section of our website, where each has been posted.
Today I will start with a review of 2023 with a particular focus on Q4 I will provide our perspective on the summer towards the market and then conclude with our outlook on PDF solutions prospects for the year and beyond.
Aldo will then provide an overview of our financial results and his perspective on the business before we turn the call over for questions.
Looking back on 2023, the company made great strides in our goal of being the end to end analytics platform for the semiconductor and electronics industries.
This progress was particularly visible at our users conference in October.
First Telus was fantastic with over 300 people registered from over 100 companies, which represents two two times to turn all of our last conference.
We have presentations from many of our customers and partners, including Intel analog devices Renaissance.
Other than tough and others.
Second our developers and application engineers and product managers revealed our roadmaps and demonstrated our new products.
Customers described how they use our products and platform to revolutionize their technology development manufacturing operations and product quality.
Talks included their use of our designer will inspection to accelerate bring up of new products and processes.
Got it analytics AI solution for product engineering to find yield issues faster.
So automation to enable 25% reduction in operator overhead.
There are certain manufacturing hub to enable manufacturing digital transformation by connecting to the enterprise.
We also provided updated information for investors.
From our industrial and it was substantially above our previous meeting.
Overall, we received positive feedback from our community of customers partners investors and analysts.
2023 was also a year for significant progress in our product development.
R E D F. I team was able to ship two machines. This year, one to an existing customer and in the fourth quarter machine for manufacturing evaluation by a new customer.
The probe bottles shipped in 2023 has two times the throughput of the previous generation and it was optimized to find yield issues at both the middle of line and the metal session layers.
Our extensive sapiens product teams worked together to deliver our sapiens manufacturing hub and other analytics applications to Sap's ERP system to the factory information.
We signed a contract for the first customer for this solution in 2023.
Finally, we released our ml ops product.
Customers tell us that the complexity of test is increasing due in part to advanced packaging.
They have a desire to apply.
To improve product quality yields and operations.
Building AI models is one thing.
Putting them online.
Operating properly while producing millions of chips is another.
The challenge is to get data from the entire supply chain available at the right machine. So the AI models can be applied in real time to the chip manufacturing and test.
Pds I know off enables customers to solve this challenge and putting AI models on the production floor by orchestrating the movement of data the management of model and the model the monitoring of the models execution and production flow.
Customer interest in our MLR has been fantastic we're on pilot deployments with customers this quarter.
While interest on all of this has been great. The fact is there not enough engineers in the industry that are both familiar with AI and so let me touch on manufacturing.
Teaming with Intel and Carnegie Mellon University, we pioneered a new a new Masters course, this past fall.
Students are able to work with real world data to develop new AI models using extensive software.
Feedback has been great and we look forward to expand this cost offering in the future.
All of our marketing product development and field applications effort resulted in positive growth in the business for the year, we grew revenue 12% against the backdrop of the industry that contracted 10%.
As I said earlier, I'm, not who will comment on the financials and deaths.
While bookings for the first three quarters were muted Q4 bookings were strong and we again built backlog bookings in Q4 were driven by <unk> as customers deployed our process control manufacturing analytics and test solutions.
The strong bookings helped our revenue performance, despite weakness and gained share in runtime licenses due to equipment customers away from thoughts and shipping less product than we originally expected for the second half of the year.
Finally in the quarter, we booked our first contract as part of the D O D any comments program.
The southern California universities, and defense contractors wanted to leverage extensive to connect advanced labs with contractor stops to smooth the transfer of new technologies to products.
We are proud to be included in this program and work is already underway.
In summary, with progress we made in 2023 Pds is driving the reinvigoration of the IC manufacturing and technology development by bringing AI and ml to the factory floor.
Turning to our view of 2024.
Many of our Fabless foundry and equipment customers are reporting relatively weak first half of 2024 and in many cases customers are reporting Q1 will be down.
They generally expect now that the second half of the year.
We will return to growth.
While some customers are experiencing near term weakness.
Long term trends driven by increased intelligence.
Increasingly intelligent semiconductor products that make it possible the electrification of the energy economy, and the geographic diversification of manufacturing are only accelerating.
Our outlook for the year reflects both the short term weakness in the IC industry in the longer term macro trends that can drive significant growth.
Overall, we expect bookings for the year to be up significantly versus last year, and we expect to build backlog meaningfully.
Our revenue model for the year suggests the first half of the year will be roughly flat when compared to the last year and growth returning to 20% on a year over year basis in the second half of the year.
Overall, we expect double digit growth for the year similar to last.
When we looked at the progress we made in 2023 and consider the opportunities we see in front of us in 2024.
We truly appreciate the effort of our employees contractors customers and partners that are positioned the company for the future.
Now I will turn the call over to art for more details and comments on our results.
No.
Thank you John good afternoon, everyone.
I'm pleased to review the financial results of the full year and the fourth quarter of 2023.
As John said, we posted our earnings release and a management report in the Investor Relations section of our website. Our Form 10-K with final results will be filed with the SEC by the end of February.
After the annual audit is complete.
Please note that all the financial results, we discussed in today's call will be on a non-GAAP basis and a reconciliation to GAAP financials is provided in the materials on our website.
Like John I'm also pleased that we ended the fourth quarter of 2023 by growing our backlog versus the third quarter of 2003, our backlog at the end of the year was $230 million.
For the full year 2023, we generated record revenue of $165 8 million versus $148 5 million in 2022 at.
12% year over year increase.
Two items are worth highlighting here first our analytics revenue grew 17% for the full year to 83 on a year over year basis.
Second we delivered a 12% total company revenue growth rate for the full year against the backdrop of a 24% decline in <unk> revenues and as John pointed out an industry that contracted 10%.
For the fourth quarter of 2003, our total revenue was $41 1 million up slightly on a year over year basis with analytics revenue growing 9% and <unk> revenue declined 55%.
For the fourth quarter, our gross margin was 72% and we reported EPS of <unk> 15 per share.
Turning back to the full year 2003 results I will now provide detailed comments on.
On a full year basis, our gross margin was 73% and we reported EPS of <unk> 73.
For the full year analytics revenue increased 17% to $152 1 million versus the prior year. Despite the fact that the metrics connectivity runtime licenses, we generate revenue as customers shift their equipment were down double digit percentage due to decline in end market pickup in shipments.
We are making solid progress on our mission to become the leading analytics software provider for the global semiconductor supply chain.
Analytics has solidified as the dominant component of our overall business and is now 92% of total revenues for the full year.
Important contributions to analytics revenue came from Excelsior product deals, we signed during the year, particularly some large double digit million dollar deals signed in the fourth quarter, adding to our recurring revenues.
Analytics revenue also saw contributions from continued adoption of our <unk> probe DSI systems by key customers.
We are pleased that our second leading edge customer now has our <unk> machine at their facility for manufacturing evaluation.
With respect to symmetrical products, we continue to see weakness in equipment shipments affecting the contribution to revenue, which declined on a year over year basis for the full year.
We stay engaged with our equipment software customers to watch for signs of growth in total shipments.
Just as we highlighted last year on our earnings call with the full year 2020 tours. All it is worth noting for this year 2023, as well that our full year analytics revenue for 2023 was more than the total company revenue for the prior year 2022.
This is yet another year in a row for this noteworthy achievement.
For the full year 2023, IR revenue comprised 8% of total revenues at $13 8 million and was down 24% on a year over year basis, driven by completion of some fixed fee engagement projects and reduction in revenues from gain share primarily from reduced production volumes.
At key gain share customers.
Gross margin for the full year to 83 increased to 73%.
71% for 2022 chalking another year of expanding gross margins despite.
The fact that gain share, which is 100% gross margin decrease we were able to grow gross margins in part due to better optimize spending on cloud infrastructure as we improve the business scale.
Turning to operating expenses.
Also control the growth of our expenses to expand operating margins to 17% for the full year 2003 compared to 15% for the full year 2022.
During the year, we managed our resources to better distribute use between R&D and pre sales activities, while funding the growth of our sales team to engage in the opportunities we are seeing in our pipeline.
For the year 2000 to 83, we reported EPS of <unk> 73 per share a meaningful growth of more than 20% compared to the <unk> 60 per share we reported for the prior year 2022.
During the year, we generated positive operating cash flow of $14 6 million of which we spent $11 3 million on Capex for data collection systems for our leading edge business $1 $8 million on the acquisition of land turn machinery analytics for our EV battery initiative at about <unk> seven.
On share buybacks.
We are pleased with another year of positive operating cash flow generation consistent with our history.
Turning to the balance sheet, we ended the year 2003, with cash and equivalents and short term investments of $135 5 million compared to $139 2 million at the end of 2022, and we continue to carry no debt.
We are proud of the performance of traded three against the macro environment and remain committed to the long term targets. We set at our analyst day in October last year of 20% year over year total company revenue growth rate, 75% gross margin and 20% operating margin.
Now turning to our financial outlook for 2024, we'll look forward to another growth year.
As John said and stated in our earnings release, our outlook for the year reflects both the short term weakness in the semiconductor industry and the strength of our pipeline bolstered by the macro trends of distributed manufacturing energy electrification and AI.
It can drive significant growth as a result, we expect revenue for the first half of 2024 to be flat over the comparable period of the prior year.
And for revenue for the second half of the year to grow by 20% over the comparable period of the prior year.
With that I'll turn the call over to the operator to commence the question and answer session. Operator. Thank you Mr. Rosa, ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question at this time. Please press star one one on your telephone if youre using a speaker phone. Please lift the handset before asking a question.
Please wait one moment for our first question.
Our first question comes from the line of Blair Abernethy from Rosenblatt Securities.
Good afternoon gentlemen.
Okay.
Good afternoon.
Hi, John My first question is just.
Around ESI.
That's great.
<unk> two a second customer I just wondering if you can give us some.
Just some color around that.
And what's your have you start to recognize any revenue from that at this point and sort of what does the pipeline look like for EFI as you kind of look forward into 2024.
Sure.
Yes.
Shipped in the fourth quarter. This is for us.
In our prepared remarks manufacturing evaluation, we did the technical evaluation of what the machine is capable of seeing by having the customer ship wafers to us here quite a.
Number of wafers came to our facility here in California, but this is a customer in east Asia. So we had to ship the machine over there and the purpose. There is to demonstrate that it's able to really be used in the production facility that it maintains the at times, but it has the repeatability as you scan wherever some wafers in wafers day after day.
At our user conference this past.
Paul.
Early adopter customer was able to show what they were able to do using the machine at our user conference. So we have good confidence that.
We will be able to demonstrate success and then convert that into revenue.
Achievement of the milestones that we've set out for this evaluation.
In terms of the outlook for this year, we do anticipate.
Adding additional customers and this year as well as expanding within existing customers and this year our customer in this year, we expect to be able to ship.
Just a couple of machines, but we will be able to we have already ordered comp.
Capital for quite a.
Quite a bit more so we're able to start shipping as we get to the end of this year early next year.
More accelerated rate than were shipping, let's say this year.
But we expect to end this year with.
<unk>.
Quite a few machines contributing to revenue.
So you say that today this last year or two machines contributed revenue, we expect to over to X that number by the end of this year.
Okay great.
Great.
Just wondering if.
Maybe you can help us with your.
With your guidance or thoughts.
Rationale I guess into your guidance as to the.
I can understand.
With one of our business and.
Shipments shipments still being pretty tepid.
For the first half, but what gives you sort of the confidence that you can go from there.
Effectively flat first half to a pretty substantial second half growth.
Yes.
It's a great question.
It's the bookings activity that we have ongoing.
Some of which completed in Q4 as a guideline.
A couple of very large.
Contracts that funnel.
Our fourth quarter, which saw the bookings in the fourth quarter were large and then this quarter and next quarter, we have quite a bit of activity going on we expect to build on that.
Bookings momentum in Q4.
The first half of this year to be substantially over the second half of last year from a booking standpoint, and then given the ratable nature of the business as you get through the year that just drives incremental growth.
So we book in Q1, it will drive very little revenue growth.
Revenue in Q1, it will drive incrementally more in Q2, and then a lot more as you go to the second half of the year.
And similar to bookings during Q2.
Got it got it okay.
The reason for optimism more internal or our specific business situations.
Estimates that it has the macro environment. They are all activities that we see that we're in.
Deep discussions with customers that we feel pretty confident about.
The gain share part instances you part of more like the overall weather outside of us.
So I get it so more in your control more of what you have.
And as opposed to waiting for the market to <unk>.
Come back to you on the equipment side or on the symmetric.
But we're not forecasting we are forecasting equipment getting better as we get towards the second half of the year modestly we're not forecasting a ton of growth and gain share we're really forecasting a ton of growth in analytics, primarily around the following activities some of which happened in Q4 and more of that happens to begin in the second half of this year.
Sorry, the first half of this year Q1, and Q2 in particular.
Okay, Okay great.
One.
One last question if I can just it sounds like you.
<unk> made progress on the partnership side with SAP would there be any other.
A significant part.
Highlight John.
I think what we did.
In my prepared remarks did you talk about the new product release on SAP <unk> of course, we've had a number of products that we have done in conjunction with Adventist.
That are generating revenue and continued to generate momentum some of the pilots we have an MLR also interfaced with that.
With the.
<unk> been test infrastructure in their edge box. So we do expect those two partners to be driving.
Additional bookings as we go throughout this year when.
When we look at our other partners beyond that we are in active work with them on additional customers and we do expect that as more of our partners will start driving bookings with us as we jointly go to market with a number of.
Pilots with customers.
Okay, that's great thanks very much.
Thank you one moment far next question.
Our.
Question comes from the line of William Jellison from D. A Davidson <unk> co.
Hi, good afternoon, and thanks for taking the question.
I'll ask two and then get back in queue.
First one.
I'm wondering if you can share.
More color on the analytics revenue per customer metric and any updated metrics on that front or just overall observations and then within that the level of module uptake.
Within your existing customer base as well.
Yes, absolutely and look every quarter, we put this metric as we did the last quarter as well.
Calculating that number of finalizing it both for the analyst day itself, but over the last few quarters, we have seen the trend of that number going up and we would expect that this quarter that would be the case as well in terms of continued in terms of adoption whether its our customers. It's nice to see that customers are using our products on a larger scale as referenced by their comment that.
We've made in the call about the two large customers with the.
Large deals that we talked about the double digit million dollar deals so stay tuned for the for that metric as we post our.
A decade Electra days about the Investor day about the met about the details and some of those metrics.
Absolutely okay.
And then the second question relates to your investment in sales and marketing.
I remember getting the impression from from your Analyst Day last October.
A lot of the a lot of incremental gross profit that PDF disconnect as it approaches that 75% margin target was going to get reinvested into a more concerted effort in sales and marketing.
And I was just wondering on the level of intensity Pds is presently investing there to capture those opportunities and whether or not we should expect that to step up even further as it pursues Marcellus opportunities yes.
Yeah look I mean through this year and frankly early on in the year, we've talked about increased spend that we would plan to do with the sales and marketing side in Canada for you I know, we reported as a combined number within the SG&A bucket, but I will tell you that G&A is not where we are with some of that growth. It's really been the ethane side, we have hired some new people, especially given some of the M&A and the.
<unk> in the market that we thought to grab some of the good salespeople and add them to our portfolio.
And back to the question there if you compare you add the two together and you say okay. Great do you spend on asset at what are the early proof points I think the tone on the call that you are hearing from US is along those lines.
You're catching us at a good time. This is the time of the year. We also prepare our annual operating plan and presented to the board and the early views of that we do a top down view and then as we presented to the board. We ended up looking at every deal with the timing for the year and Thats. How we were able to give you. This guidance that we are sharing today. So yes, we are inquiry.
The spend in SLM is starting to show early results and the strength of the pipeline and hopefully the two deals in Q4 that would be the chalk up some of that benefit already and hopefully more to come I think just I think you asked a little bit around okay. What does that mean for this year I think when you look at a quarterly basis, we crept it up every quarter, but now.
As we get into this year.
We will make modest incremental investments, but a lot of the reason why sales and marketing expenses. This year will be higher than last year. So you have a full year's accounting.
Expect that we're going to incrementally incrementally increase it at a much more rapid rate in fact, arguably it will be at a more muted rate, but because you have a full year's expense.
On an annualized basis, it will be a higher a higher number than it was last year right.
Quarterly basis, not a lot higher than Q4, just modestly off of Q4, I think that might have been what you were kind of looking for.
Yes, both are very high.
Thank you Jonathan.
Thank you.
If you have a question at this time. Please press star one one on your telephone if youre using a speaker phone. Please lift the handset before asking a question.
One moment for our next question.
Our next question comes from the line of Gus Richard from Northland.
Yes. Good afternoon, guys. Thanks for letting me ask some questions here.
The two large deals that you signed in the quarter.
Those.
Sort of enterprise wide Fab test assembly or were they more point products.
And could you give any color on like.
Like analog industrial or leading edge, what kind of customers.
Sure so I can handle that.
Each of them are front end fab related both of them are.
Process control related with advanced analytics capability in one case it more.
Basic capabilities and the other one they are both enterprise wide and that they go across all of their.
Facilities.
<unk> worldwide.
And those.
As a result relatively large as the customers that are.
Have been customers before now are deploying.
More broadly in one case.
With more advanced capabilities on top of the base capabilities.
And so yes, we've been talking throughout the year that there is a number of large contracts that we've been working on these were two of them.
There are others that we are continuing to work on this is again kind of getting back towards questions around the investment in sales and marketing, but some of the early foods, we expect substantial.
Yes.
Step up again in this first half of the year.
As we closed a number of other larger deals.
First part of the year.
That all kind of related to these investments.
Building, even largely what we did in.
Those two of those were pretty substantial for us.
Okay and then just.
Can you give us a sense of like the size of your pipeline you closed a couple of deals are there.
510, how many how many more of these enterprise wide deals are you currently working on.
Yes.
Otherwise I can give it a real ingredients or gasoline.
As always is the case for us on a dollar value basis, we live by the 80 20 rule so.
Or maybe even 90 10, there are probably 10% of the deals that represent.
Sizeable 80 plus percent of the dollar value because these enterprise offerings tend to be quite large there are some.
We're working on right now that are as I said substantially bigger than those first two.
I was going to drive a meaningful piece of our.
Our.
Bookings this year than theirs.
A number that are similar size to those.
A handful of them I don't know off the top of my head.
Okay Fair number collectively overall as I said in my prepared remarks, we do have a lot of confidence about the bookings this year.
<unk>.
It is.
The level of activity with customers quite meaningful given those three drivers that I spoke about electrification of the energy economy, that's really just driving high voltage silicon.
Battery technologies.
<unk>.
Hi.
Advanced process nodes really geared towards AI that includes advanced packaging. So part of that can be we are going out for the ml ops piece, there and then all the DSI and leaving.
Leading edge capabilities, all around just advanced semiconductors, driven by AI and then.
Geographic diversification customers really wanted to get to these more enterprise wide control schemes because of the nature of their manufacturing to in Q4 caused somewhat representative account, but we see a number of those so.
It's probably.
I will note and the.
10 range, but theres, probably two or three that drive a sizable fraction of that.
Tom probably are.
More than 80% of the booking volumes for the year.
Got it Okay that was very helpful. Thank you and then just.
Flipping the Fi.
It sounds like you've got.
Pretty decent visibility through this year in terms of what you're building over the last 90 days have you I know, there's some long lead time items for Ti.
Have you had to.
Go back to your vendors and order more materials for <unk>.
Essentially deliveries in 2025.
That's a great point, yeah. If you look at our expected spend on capital Youll see it step up in 2024 versus 2023, and 2023 had a modest increase versus 2020. If my number memory is correct and that step up just because of ordering for things weeks machines, we expect to ship in 2025.
<unk> more than what we expect to ship in 2024 per se doesn't touch points out for a little bit.
Yes, we've been going back to our vendors to try to tighten up.
Availability and delivery times.
We.
We'd like to get and we feel like we're getting close to the point, where we're really going to be looking at how we can pull those in for because of the customer interest. So.
Yeah, Youll see spend go up this year, it's anticipation of 2025, we're setting ourselves up to be able to ship significantly more in 2025 demand for shipping in 2024.
And we are going back and even discussing what the vendors on if we needed to pull and even more for that how would we be able to more than what we're already planning, how we will be able to affect that that would probably not affect our capital spend in 2024 very much but it could affect our capital spend in the first part of 2025, and then shipments that one second.
2025, we think we have the first half of 2025, mostly okay.
Got it got it that's super helpful and then.
You mentioned in your prepared remarks that you expect it to add additional <unk>.
Customers this year.
Any color or is that more.
Memory advanced logic.
Is there any.
Is it.
One or two.
Any color there is helpful.
Yes.
We continue to see opportunities in advanced logic, and we too expect advanced logic incrementally to contribute this year above what it contributed last year.
We have also.
Sure.
We've been in the industry for quite a while and so.
<unk>.
As you know PD efforts worked on yield ramps all around the world with virtually everybody are starting with an executive at one of the companies that's just getting into.
It would be more advanced than.
Trailing edge, but nowhere near two nanometer, but as you think about everything from.
12 nanometer to 28.
We are starting to see interest in those areas, where people said hey, we have this that could really accelerate are bringing up of new products and one of the guys joke with me John We worked on your apps with you of my past company and these notes.
That's what it really helps.
So we think that the opportunity is broader than just the leading edge. As you know we were very focused on just what can you do on the leading edge in some way because it's a talisman about where you're going look for the industry, but that we're going to double back and look at some of those other opportunities and we're also starting to get some early looks in the memory space, what we're starting to add some early dialogue.
Part of our goal this year is to make sure we've got enough capacity and our own allowed to be able to do demos any dollars for customers like much like we did for that agent.
On 2023 that enabled us to ship at the end of the year, we'd like to do that this year for some additional customers in the trailing edge quasi trailing edge.
In memory.
We continue to penetrate on the leading edge logic.
Okay.
I promise. This is my last question.
When you talk to these not bleeding edge, but.
More advanced geometries logic guys.
<unk> would be helpful for them.
Because it would accelerate their learning over Mike.
Yeah.
Parametric tester you used to use or is it a cost savings because you wouldnt scrap as many wafers as you go through that.
Okay great.
Great question for you guys for breaking up the noted controlling it if you just look at PDF has had yield models based on product design layouts forever. We've typically was on a test vehicle to extract kind of intrinsic failure rates.
That'll shorts and opens contact.
Yes.
<unk> opened conducted via short those models would always show you that half of the yield loss.
See because of opens between layers shorts and opens between layers, but you can't see them optically. So the customer would run a test vehicle are short flows to see the single layer shorts and opens in the between layer Schwartz and open but then if you want to know, but what does it really do on product, while our test vehicle couldn't give you.
That because its a test vehicle and the inspection tools can just tell you what's happening at layer. They can't really tell you do you have a failure in 1 billion or <unk> 1 billion or 10 players and $1 billion on the contacting via later and the purpose. The only thing that can only do that can measure tens of billions and tell you. Okay. What's your real failure rate across all the way up.
On a real product and not really that was the part of the Guy says I got John when we went from your test vehicle to product. We got caught by some issues took us months to solve because there's no way to look at it. The power gives you a way to look at that and Thats why the kind of ASP.
People see that this is real you can measure 10 billion contacts and he is right. That's the change of.
The game right. So even for 12 nanometer 28 nanometer that actually matters.
Quite a background and we've always known in our models its half year Helios.
It's just hard to see a line.
Okay.
Perfect.
Super helpful that that really clarifies it for me. Thank you.
No problem.
Thank you.
If you have a question at this time. Please press star one one on your telephone if you're using a speaker phone. Please lift the handset before asking a question.
Yeah.
If you have a question at this time, please press star one one on your telephone.
You are using a speaker phone please lift the handset before asking a question.
At this time there are no more questions, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes the program. Thank you for joining us on today's call.
Okay.
Okay.
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