Q4 2023 Trinity Industries Inc Earnings Call
Good day, and welcome to the Trinity Industries' fourth quarter and full year 'twenty twenty-three results conference call all participants will be in listen only mode.
Operator: Good day, and welcome to the Trinity Industries fourth quarter and full year 2023 results conference call. All participants will be in listen-only mode.
Operator: Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star then 1 on your telephone keypad. To withdraw your question, please press star then 2.
Should you need assistance. Please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero.
After todays presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions.
Ask a question you May press Star then one on your telephone keypad to withdraw your question. Please press Star then two.
Operator: Please note, today's event is being recorded. Before we get started, let me remind you that today's conference call contains forward-looking statements as defined by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and includes statements as to estimates, expectations, intentions, and predictions of future financial performance. Statements that are not historical facts are forward-looking.
Please note today's event is being recorded.
Before we get started let me remind you that todays conference call contains forward looking statements as defined by the private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and includes statements as to estimates expectations intentions and predictions of future financial performance statements that are not.
Historical facts are forward looking part of participants that are directed to trinity's Form 10-K, and other S. E. C filings for a description of certain of the business issues and risks a change in any of which could cause actual results or outcomes to differ materially from.
Operator: Participants that are directed to Trinity's Form 10-K and other SEC filings are a description of certain of the business issues and risks, a change in any of which could cause actual results or outcomes to differ materially from those expressed in the forward-looking statements. I would now like to turn the conference over to Leigh Ann Mann, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Those expressed in the forward looking statements I would now like to turn the conference over to Leann Mann, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Leigh Ann Mann: Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone. We appreciate you joining us for the company's fourth quarter 2023 financial results conference. Our prepared remarks will include comments from Gene Savage, Trinity's Chief Executive Officer and President, and Eric Marchetto, the company's Chief Financial Officer, will hold a Q&A session following the prepared remarks from our leaders. During the call today, we will reference certain non-GAAP financial metrics. The reconciliations of the non-GAAP metrics to comparable GAAP measures are provided in the appendix of the supplemental slides, which are accessible on our Investor Relations website at www.trin.net. These slides are under the events and presentations portion of the website, along with the fourth quarter earnings conference call event link. A replay of today's call will be available after 10: 30 a.m. Eastern Time through midnight on February 29, 2024.
Leann Mann: Thank you operator, good morning, everyone. We appreciate you joining us for the company's fourth quarter 2023 financial results Conference call.
Leann Mann: Prepared remarks will include comments from Jean Savage, Trinity's, Chief Executive Officer, and President and Eric Macchiato, The company's Chief Financial Officer, who will hold a Q&A session. Following the prepared remarks from our leaders.
Leann Mann: During the call today, we will reference certain non-GAAP financial metrics. The reconciliations of the non-GAAP metrics to comparable GAAP measures are provided in the appendix of the supplemental slides.
Leann Mann: They are accessible on our Investor relations website at Www Dot trend Dot net these flights are under the events and presentations portion of the website along with the fourth quarter earnings conference call isn't like.
Leann Mann: A replay of today's call will be available. After 10 30, a M. Eastern time through midnight on February 29, 2024 replay information is available under the events and presentations page on our Investor Relations website.
Gene Savage: Replay information is available on the Events and Presentations page on our Investor Relations website. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Leigh Ann. Thank you, Leigh Ann, and good morning, everyone.
Leann Mann: It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to gene.
Gene: Thank you Leann and good morning, everyone. We ended 2023 on a strong note improved our ability to deliver results despite unexpected challenges throughout the year.
Gene Savage: We ended 2023 on a strong note and proved our ability to deliver results despite unexpected challenges throughout the year. Our 2023 revenue of $3 billion was up 51% year over year. Four-year gap EPS was $1.43 per diluted share, and adjusted EPS was $1.38, up 47% year-over-year.
Gene: Our 2023 revenue of $3 billion was up 51% year over year.
Gene: Full year GAAP EPS was $1 43 per diluted share and adjusted EPS was $1 38 up 47% year over year.
Gene Savage: Segment margins, excluding railcar sales, were up year over year in both the rail products group and the railcar leasing and management services group. While our 2023 results show significant progress, I'm also encouraged by the forward metrics that are positioning our operations for an even stronger 2024. The Future Lease Rate Differential, or FLRD, is currently 23.7%.
Gene: Segment margins, excluding railcar sales were up year over year in both the rail products group and the railcar leasing and management services group.
While our 2023 results show significant progress I'm also encouraged by the Ford metrics that are positioning our operations for an even stronger 2024.
Gene: The future lease rate differential or SLR D is currently 23, 7%.
Gene Savage: And our fleet utilization remains high at 97.5%. These indicators show continued strength in the lease fleet and our ability to increase lease rates. On the real product side of the business, the backlog of $3.2 billion gives us production visibility.
Gene: And our fleet utilization remained high at 97, 5%.
Gene: These indicators show continued strength in the lease fleet and our ability to increase lease rates.
Gene: On the rail products side of the business the backlog of $3 $2 billion gives us production visibility.
Gene Savage: It allows us to efficiently plan our operations and compete for business that maximizes our platform's return in the current market. Eric will discuss our financial expectations for 2024, but we are well positioned to have a solid year. We also believe we are well-positioned in sustainability, safety, and diversity, and I would like to share a few notable updates from these initiatives. In the fourth quarter, Trinity was pleased to receive Union Pacific's first ever Sustainability Partner Award.
Gene: It allows us to efficiently plan, our operations and compete for business that maximizes our platform's returns in the current market.
Gene: Eric will discuss our financial expectations for 2024, but we are well positioned to execute a solid year.
Gene: We also believe we are well positioned in sustainability safety and diversity and I would like to share a few notable updates from these initiatives.
Gene: In the fourth quarter Trinity was pleased to receive Union Pacific's first ever sustainability partner Award.
Gene Savage: We were recognized based on multiple sustainability initiatives. One of the initiatives was our collaboration with UP to deliver the 5239 covered hopper, which utilizes thinner and lighter materials to maximize the car's capacity. Additionally, as part of its EcoConnections partnership program, CN recognized Trinity for our efforts and commitment to sustainability. In Mexico, we earned the ESR badge again, highlighting our work to promote employee well-being, sustainability, environmental stewardship, philanthropy, and community involvement. Finally, Newsweek recently named us one of the greatest workplaces for diversity, highlighting our steadfast commitment to cultivating an inclusive environment where diverse perspectives coexist and thrive. We strongly believe these awards are recognition of hard work and dedication.
Gene: We were recognized based on multiple sustainability initiatives.
Gene: One of the initiatives with our collaboration with U P to deliver the 50 239 covered hopper, which utilizes thinner and lighter materials to maximize the cars capacity.
Gene: Additionally, as part of its eco connections partnership program.
Gene: N recognized Trinity prior efforts and commitment to sustainability.
Gene: In Mexico, we earn the ESR badge again, highlighting our work to promote employee wellbeing sustainability environmental stewardship philanthropy and community involvement.
Gene: Finally, Newsweek recently named US one of the greatest workplaces for diversity, highlighting our steadfast commitment to cultivating an inclusive environment, where diverse perspectives coexist and thrive.
Gene: We strongly believe these awards or recognition of hard work and dedication I want to congratulate our team for keeping our core values at the forefront of our minds.
Gene Savage: I want to congratulate our team for keeping our core values at the forefront of our minds. Before discussing specifics from the quarter and the year, I'd like to discuss what we're seeing in the market. Car loads improved sequentially and year over year in the fourth quarter with improvements in chemicals, certain industry markets, and key agricultural markets like grain mill products, fertilizer, and biofuels. Automotive demand has remained strong as supply chain issues continue to improve. This is despite consumers' perceived headwinds due to recent high inflation levels and higher borrowing costs.
Gene: Before discussing specifics from the quarter and the year I'd like to discuss what we're seeing in the market.
Gene: Carloads improved sequentially and year over year in the fourth quarter with improvements in chemicals certain industry markets in key agricultural markets like Greenville product fertilizer and Biofuels.
Gene: Automotive demand has remained strong as supply chain issues continue to improve.
Gene: This is despite consumers perceived headwinds due to the recent high inflation levels and higher borrowing costs.
Gene Savage: These are favorable trends for tank cars and autorads. Railroad service is improving. In December, train speeds were the fastest since January 2021, with dwell times also showing faster service among Class 1 railroads.
Gene: These are favorable trends for tank cars and auto racks.
Gene: Railroad service is improving in December train speeds, where the fastest since January 2021, with dwell times also showing faster service among the class one railroads.
Gene Savage: This improvement has contributed to lower active railcar needs despite carload gains, with just over 20,000 more railcars in storage at the beginning of February than a year ago. Nevertheless, we continue to view fluid rail service as positive and believe better rail service will drive modal share growth and ultimately a stronger rail industry. Coupling better rail service with our emerging logistics platform incentivizes customers to increase rail usage in their supply chain plans. Now, I want to provide some segment level highlights, starting with the rail car leasing and management services segment. In the fourth quarter, our leasing group earned $222 million in revenue and $136 million in operating profit.
Gene: This improvement has contributed to lower active railcar needs. Despite carload gains were just over 20000 more railcars in storage at the beginning of February than a year ago.
Gene: Nevertheless, we continue to view fluid rail service as a positive.
Gene: Italy, better rail service will drive modal share growth and ultimately a stronger rail industry.
Gene: Coupling better rail service with our emerging logistics platform incentivizes customers to increase rail usage and their supply chain planning.
Gene: Now I want to provide some segment level highlights starting with our railcar leasing and management services segment.
Gene: In the fourth quarter, our leasing group earned $222 million in revenue and $136 million in operating profit.
Gene Savage: As foreshadowed earlier this year, fourth quarter results included rail Car sales proceeds of $136 million and a gain of $36 million. For the full year, leasing segment revenues were up 13% year over year, driven by favorable FLRD all year, higher lease rates, and net additions to the fleet. Furthermore, our 2023 revenue includes RSI logistics, which we acquired in the first quarter of 2023. As mentioned at the beginning of the call, the FLRD was 23.7% in the fourth quarter, and fleet utilization remained favorable at 97.5%. For the full year, our renewal rates were approximately 30% higher than expiring rates, and our average renewal lease term was 54 months, allowing us to lock in the higher rates for longer.
Gene: As foreshadowed earlier this year fourth quarter results included a railcar sales proceeds of $136 million and a gain of $36 million.
Gene: And the full year leasing segment revenues were up 13% year over year, driven by favorable F. O R. D. All here higher lease rates and net additions to the fleet.
Gene: Furthermore, our 2023 revenue includes Rsi logistics, which we acquired in the first quarter of 2023.
Gene: As mentioned at the beginning of the call. The SLR D was 23, 7% in the fourth quarter and fleet utilization remained favorable and 97, 5%.
Gene: For the full year, our renewal rates were approximately 30% higher than expiring rates.
Gene: Our average renewal lease term was 54 months, allowing us to lock in the higher rates longer.
Gene: While the operating margin of 49, 2%, which includes secondary market railcar sales is down year over year. This is driven by significantly more gains in railcar sales in 2022.
Gene Savage: While the operating margin of 49.2%, which includes secondary market rail car sales, is down year over year, this is driven by significantly more gains in rail car sales in 2022. When removing the impact of the gains, the segment margin is up year over year and reflects the impact of higher lease rates improving performance in the sector. Trinity delivered 17,355 railcars in 2023 and 4,000 in the fourth quarter. Fourth quarter deliveries were approximately 1,300 units below our projections, primarily as a result of the border closure. In addition to the previous border closure that affected us in Q3, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agency closed the International Railway crossing bridges at Eagle Pass and El Paso, Texas, on December 18, and they remain fully closed until December 22nd.
Gene: When removing the impact of the gains the segment margin is up year over year and reflects the impact of higher lease rates improving performance in the sector.
Trinity delivered 17355 railcars in 2023 and 4000 in the fourth quarter.
Gene: Fourth quarter deliveries were approximately 1300 units below our projections, primarily as a result of the border closing.
In addition to the previous border closures that affected us in Q3, the U S customs and border Protection Agency close the International railway crossing bridges at Eagle pass and El Paso, Texas on December 18th.
And they remain fully closed until December 22nd.
Gene: Eagle pass as Trinity's primary border crossing for railcar deliveries from our Sabine is M Unquote, Mexico manufacturing facilities.
Gene Savage: Eagle Pass is Trinity's primary border crossing for rail car deliveries from our Sabinas and Monclova, Mexico, manufacturing facilities. The financial impact of the border closure and related congestion primarily includes lost revenue on delayed units, increased freight and storage expenses, reduced efficiency, and increased overtime pay. In the fourth quarter, Trinity booked 840 new rail car orders, or about 20% of the quarterly industry orders, which demonstrates the lumpiness of order activity from quarter to quarter. For the full year, our share of industry orders was in our normal range of 30 to 40 percent. And we still hold about half of the industry's backlog, with long lead times on most new orders. This allows us to be disciplined in the orders we accept into our backlog.
Gene: The financial impact of the border closure and related congestion primarily includes loss revenue on delayed units increased freight and storage expenses reduced efficiency and increased overtime pay.
Gene: In the fourth quarter Trinity booked 840, new railcar orders or about 20% of the quarterly industry orders, which demonstrates the lumpiness of order activity from quarter to quarter.
Gene: For the full year, our share of industry orders within our normal range of 30% to 40% and we still hold about half of the industry backlog with long lead times on most new orders.
Gene: This allows us to be disciplined in the orders we accept into our backlog.
Gene Savage: We have seen inquiry activity pick up substantially in the first quarter and continue to view our backlog and our order volume favorably. In the fourth quarter, segment revenue of $674 million was slightly down sequentially, primarily due to the border closing preventing us from getting finished railcars across the border by year-end. This also affected the segment's operating margin, which was 6.1%.
Gene: We have seen inquiry activity pick up substantially in the first quarter and continue to view, our backlog and our order volume favorably.
Gene: In the fourth quarter segment revenue of $674 million was slightly down sequentially, primarily due to the border closing preventing us from getting finished railcars across the border by year end.
Gene: This also affected the segment's operating margin, which was six 1%.
Gene Savage: The fourth quarter results included gains from insurance recoveries. The margin would have been 5.9% excluding the gains, up 70 basis points sequentially. The border closure affects our efficiency, which results in lower margins.
Gene: Fourth quarter results included gains from insurance recoveries, the margin would be five 9%, excluding the gains of 70 basis.
Gene: At this point sequentially.
Gene: The border closure affects our efficiency, which results in lower margins.
Gene Savage: The margin impact from the border closure was approximately 150 basis points in the fourth quarter. On a full year basis, the Roehl Products Group showed significant improvement year over year. Deliveries were 30% higher year over year, driving revenue improvement of 30% and operating profit improvement of 119% in the segment. This is especially impressive when you remember the headwinds we faced in 2023, including challenges with labor in Mexico, as well as external challenges, including a strengthening peso at the beginning of the year, border closures, and related supply chain challenges in the back half of the year. Our full-year operating margin of 4.8% is up 200 basis points from 2022, and we expect to see continued improvement in 2024. Over the last several years, external headwinds have negatively impacted the manufacturing business's performance.
Gene: The margin impact from the border closure was approximately 150 basis points in the fourth quarter.
Gene: On a full year basis, the rail products group showed significant improvement year over year.
Gene: Deliveries were 30% higher year over year, driving revenue improvement of 30% and operating profit improvement of 119% in the segment.
Gene: This is especially impressive when you remember the headwinds we faced in 2023, including challenges with labor in Mexico, as well as external challenges, including the strengthening peso at the beginning of the year.
Gene: Border closures and related supply chain challenges in the back half of the year.
Gene: Our full year operating margin of four 8% is up 200 basis points from 2022, and we expect to see continued improvement in 2024.
Over the last several years external headwinds have negatively impacted the manufacturing businesses performance.
Gene Savage: We will remain disciplined in our pricing and production decisions to account for our current external limitations, allowing us to drive a consistent and efficient operation. We have conducted our annual make-versus-buy review and have found opportunities to bring some capabilities in-house. We're also working in tandem with our logistics partners to ease constraints at the border, and we'll continue to evolve our manufacturing footprint and product portfolio in order to maximize returns for our entire platform. I feel confident this is a necessary step for Trinity and expect to see the positive effects in 2024. Before I turn the call over to Eric, I would like to take a minute to review some highlights from 2023. I already mentioned some of the challenging headwinds we face, and I'm so proud of our employees and their willingness to work hard to find creative solutions that drove results with considerable year-over-year growth despite an unexpected operating environment. As mentioned, we completed our acquisition of RSI Logistics in the first quarter. We are very pleased with the performance of this business and their prior acquisitions as we have worked to integrate them into Trinity. Ultimately, our goal is to make rail shipping an easy choice for shippers across North America.
Gene: We will remain disciplined in our pricing and production decisions to account for our current external limitations, allowing us to drive consistent and efficient operations.
We have conducted our annual make versus buy review and have found opportunities to bring some capabilities in house.
Gene: We're also working in tandem with our logistics partners to ease constraints at the border.
Gene: And we will continue to evolve our manufacturing footprint and product portfolio in order to maximize returns for our entire platform.
Gene: I feel confident this is a necessary step for Trinity and expect to see the positive effects in 2024.
Speaker Change: Before I turn the call over to Eric I would like to take a minute to review some highlights from 2023.
Eric R. Marchetto: I already mentioned some of the challenging headwinds, we face and I'm. So proud of our employees and their willingness to work hard to find creative solutions that drove results with considerable year over year growth.
Eric R. Marchetto: Spike and unexpected operating environment.
Eric R. Marchetto: As mentioned, we completed our acquisition of Rsi logistics in the first quarter. We are very pleased with the performance of this business and their prior acquisition as we have worked to integrate them into Trinity.
Eric R. Marchetto: Ultimately our goal is to make rail shipping an easy choice for shippers across North America.
Gene Savage: We have focused on expanding our offerings to include digitally enabled logistics services as our customers work to modernize their supply chain. We are working to enhance our large, diversified lease fleet and better serve our customers. We believe Trinity has a growing strategic value to our customers because of these services. Continued focus on service expansion will make Trinity and the rail industry as a whole more appealing to customers. On a related note, as you may have seen in our press release this morning, we have moved our maintenance business into our rail car leasing segment, effective January 1st. Trinity is a leasing company enabled by manufacturing and services.
Eric R. Marchetto: We are focused on expanding our offerings to include digitally enabled logistics services as our customers work to modernize their supply chains.
Eric R. Marchetto: We are working to enhance our large diversified lease fleet and better serve our customers.
Eric R. Marchetto: We believe Trinity has a growing strategic value to our customers because of these services.
Eric R. Marchetto: Continued focus on service expansion will make Trinity and the rail industry as a whole more appealing to customers.
Eric R. Marchetto: On a related note as you may have seen previewed in our press release. This morning, we have moved our maintenance business into our railcar leasing segment effective January one.
Eric R. Marchetto: Trinity is a leasing company enabled by manufacturing and services and this change reflects the organizational structure.
Gene Savage: And this change reflects that organizational structure. It allows us to better leverage our maintenance services capabilities to support lease fleet optimization and to grow our services business. As a result, we will rename this segment the Railcar Leasing and Services Group.
Eric R. Marchetto: It allows us to better leverage our maintenance services capabilities to support lease fleet optimization and to grow our services business.
Eric R. Marchetto: As a result, we renamed the segment the railcar leasing and services group.
Gene Savage: We will recast all prior segment results, starting with our first quarter filings, which will change the margin makeup of both segments. Eric will give some guidance on how to think about these segments in 2024 and going forward. Finally, as we look forward strategically as a company, I'm excited to announce that we will host an Investor Day in Dallas on Tuesday, June 25th. Reach out to Leigh Ann for information on the event and accommodations.
Eric R. Marchetto: We will recast all prior segment results, starting with our first quarter filings, which will change the margin make up a boat segments.
Eric R. Marchetto: Eric will give some guidance on how to think about these segments in 2024 and going forward.
Eric R. Marchetto: Finally, as we look forward strategically as a company I'm excited to announce that we will host an investor day in Dallas on Tuesday June 25th.
Speaker Change: Reach out to me and for information on the event and accommodations.
Eric R. Marchetto: We look forward to hosting you in Texas and sharing our vision for Trinity. And now, I'll turn the call over to Eric to review the financial statements, discuss the fourth quarter results, and share our expectations for 2024. Thank you, Gene, and good morning, everyone.
Speaker Change: We look forward to hosting you in Texas and sharing our vision for Trinity.
Speaker Change: And now I'll turn the call over to Eric to review the financial statements discuss the fourth quarter results and share our expectations for 2024.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Eric R. Marchetto: Thank you Jim and good morning, everyone.
Eric R. Marchetto: I'll start by discussing our fourth quarter and full year financial statements and conclude with high-level guidance for 2024, including the reconciliation to our new segment reporting structure. Starting with the income statement, on a consolidated basis, fourth-quarter revenue was $798 million, representing a 35% improvement year-over-year. Company revenues were $3 billion for the full year, 51% higher than in 2022.
Eric R. Marchetto: I'll start by discussing our fourth quarter and full year financial statements and conclude with high level guidance for 2024.
Eric R. Marchetto: Including a reconciliation to our new segment reporting structure.
Eric R. Marchetto: Starting with the income statement.
Speaker Change: As holiday the basis fourth quarter revenue was $798 million, representing a 35% improvement year over year.
Speaker Change: Company revenues were $3 billion for the full year, 51% higher than 2022.
Eric R. Marchetto: With improved margins in both segments, excluding secondary market railcar sales, we ended the year with GAAP EPS of $1.43 and adjusted EPS of $1.38, which is above our previously issued guidance range of $1.20 to $1.35. We benefited in the fourth quarter and full year from a lower than expected tax rate, driven primarily by the release of residual taxes. Changes in State Apportionment and State Rate Changes in 2023 and Changes in Valuation Allowance. With a normalized tax rate, we would have completed the year in the lower portion of our guidance. For the full year, we completed $382 million in secondary market railcar sales for a gain of $83 million, which also benefited our 2023 results. Net interest expense for the year was $266 million, up significantly over 2022, driven by higher interest rates and higher overall average debt.
Speaker Change: With improved margins in both segments, excluding secondary market railcar sales. We ended the year with GAAP EPS of $1 43, and adjusted EPS of $1 38.
Speaker Change: Which is above our previously issued guidance range of $1 $22 35.
Speaker Change: We benefited in the fourth quarter and full year from a lower than expected tax rate.
Speaker Change: Driven primarily by the release of residual taxes.
Speaker Change: Changes in state apportionment and state rate changes in 2023 and.
Speaker Change: And changes in valuation allowances.
Speaker Change: With a normalized tax rate, we would have completed the year in the lower portion of our guidance range.
Speaker Change: For the full year, we completed $382 million in the secondary market railcar sales for a gain of $83 million, which also benefited our 2023 results.
Speaker Change: Net interest expense in the year was $266 million.
Speaker Change: Significantly over 2022, driven by higher interest rates and overall and higher overall average debt.
Eric R. Marchetto: We expect a similar run rate in 2024 to the fourth quarter. Moving to the cash flow statement, full-year net cash from operations was $309 million, up significantly year over year due primarily to stabilized inventory levels and production. Adjusted free cash flow for the year was $29 million.
Speaker Change: We expect a similar run rate in 2024 for the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: Moving to the cash flow statement.
Full year net cash from operations was $309 million up significantly year over year, due primarily to stabilize inventory levels and production.
Speaker Change: Adjusted free cash flow for the year was $29 million.
Eric R. Marchetto: This was driven by higher cash flow from operations, offset by lower lease portfolio sales and the timing of railcar financing. Our full year net lease fleet investment was $287 million, in line with our guidance. And the fourth quarter proceeds from the secondary market railcar sales were $136 million for a gain of $36 million, in line with our expectations. In December, we increased our quarterly dividend by approximately 8% to $0.28 per share. This dividend, our 239th consecutive paid dividend, was paid in January.
Speaker Change: This was driven by higher cash flow from operations offset by lower lease portfolio sales and the timing of real car financing.
Speaker Change: Our full year net lease fleet investment was $287 million in line with our guidance.
In the fourth quarter proceeds from the secondary market.
Speaker Change: <unk> sales were $136 million for a gain of $36 million in line with our expectations.
Speaker Change: In December we increased our quarterly dividend by approximately 8% to 28 per share.
This dividend of 239th consecutive paid dividend was paid in January.
Speaker Change: We remain committed to returning capital to shareholders through our dividend.
Eric R. Marchetto: We remain committed to returning capital to shareholders through our dividends. I'll close my comments with high-level guidance for 2024. As Gene noted, we enter 2024 with a strong backlog, which gives us good visibility for the rail product segment 2024 production. I would like to note that in the fourth quarter, we had two adjustments to our backlog and removed 365 railcars worth $33.4 million. One was based on a mutual decision with the customer as we could not come to an agreement on a delivery date. The second was a reduction in order size from a customer for which we received compensation for the accommodation.
Speaker Change: I'll close my comments with high level guidance for 2024.
Speaker Change: As gene noted, we entered 2024 with a strong backlog, which gives us good visibility for the rail products segment 2020 for production.
Speaker Change: I would like to note that in the fourth quarter, we had two adjustments to our backlog and removed 365 railcars were $33 $4 million.
Speaker Change: One was based on a mutual decision with the customer because we cannot come to an agreement on a delivery date.
Speaker Change: The second was a reduction in order size from our customer for which we received compensation for the accommodation.
Eric R. Marchetto: We continue to view our backlog favorably. As Gene mentioned, we're moving our maintenance services business out of the rail product segment and into the leasing and services segment. We believe our railcar maintenance business primarily exists to service our own lease fleet and internally view maintenance as an enabler of the leasing business. Therefore, we think it is logical to include that business as part of the leasing and services segment. All 2024 reporting will reflect this change. However, this will not change our financial reporting below the operating profit line of our two reporting segments. The change will have no effect on consolidated operating results.
Speaker Change: We continue to view our backlog favorably.
Speaker Change: As gene mentioned, we are moving our maintenance services business out of the rail products segment and into the leasing and services segments.
Speaker Change: We believe our railcar maintenance business, primarily exist to service our own lease fleet and internally viewed maintenance as an enabler of the leasing business.
Speaker Change: Therefore, we think is logical to include that business as part of our leasing and services segment.
Speaker Change: All 2024 reporting to reflect this change.
Speaker Change: This will not change our financial reporting below the operating profit line of our two reporting segments.
Speaker Change: We will have no effect on consolidated operating results.
Eric R. Marchetto: A reconciliation of 2023 segments as reported to recast segments is included in the appendix of today's supplemental slides and is slide 18 for reference. In the leasing and services segment, we expect improvement in 2024 as we continue to reprice our fleet and push lease rates higher. Since the SLRD turned double-digit positive in the second quarter of 2022, we've repriced approximately 37% of our fleet, giving us plenty of opportunity to renew leases at significantly higher market rates than expiring rates. We expect the FLRD to remain strong through 2024, as we are seeing absolute lease rates rising, and we have a favorable mix of railcars renewing. Excluding the impact of secondary market railcar sales, we expect margin improvement above the 2023 recast margin of 34.1%, which includes the railcar maintenance business. However, we anticipate fleet maintenance expenses will remain elevated in 2024 due to the current tank car compliance cycle.
Speaker Change: A reconciliation of 2023 segments as reported to recast segments is included in the appendix of todays supplemental slides in his slide 18 for reference.
Speaker Change: And the leasing and services segment, we expect improvement in 2024, as we continue to reprice, our fleet and push lease rates higher.
Speaker Change: Since you already turned double digit positive in the second quarter of 2022.
Speaker Change: We have repriced approximately 37% of our fleet.
Speaker Change: There's plenty of opportunities to renew leases at significantly higher market rates and expiring rates.
Speaker Change: We expect <unk> to remain strong through 2024, because we were seeing absolute lease rates rising.
Speaker Change: A favorable mix of railcars renewing.
Speaker Change: Excluding the impact of secondary market Revpar sales, we expect margin improvement above the 2020 free recast margin of 34, 1%, which includes the rough our maintenance business.
Speaker Change: We anticipate fleet maintenance expenses remained elevated in 2024 due to the current tank for compliance cycle.
Eric R. Marchetto: For 2024, we expect gains in railcar sales to be approximately half of what they were in 2023, and we expect minimal railcar sales in the first quarter. In the rail Product segment, given the anticipated stable production levels, we expect 2024 margins to be significantly improved from the recast 2023 operating margin of 4.5%, which excludes the maintenance business. We forecast a 2024 margin in the range of 68%, improving through the year, which reflects better efficiency, complexity reduction, and a more stable border. First quarter margins will be impacted by increased freight and storage costs and the seasonality of our business.
Speaker Change: For 2024, we expect gains a rep or sales.
Speaker Change: Approximately half what they were in 2023 and expect minimal were up our sales in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: In the rail products segment, given the anticipated stable production levels, we expect 'twenty 'twenty four margins to be significantly improved from the recast 2023 operating margin of four 5%.
Speaker Change: Excludes the maintenance business.
Speaker Change: We forecast a 2020 for margin in the range of 6% to 8%. If we're really through the year, which reflects better efficiency complexity reduction and a more stable bore.
Speaker Change: First quarter margins will be impacted by increased freight and storage costs and the seasonality of our business.
Speaker Change: We expect industry deliveries of approximately 40000 railcars in 2024, which is consistent with our long term view of replacement level demand and supportive of our rationalize capacity in Mexico.
Eric R. Marchetto: We expect industry deliveries of approximately 40,000 railcars in 2024, which is consistent with our long-term view of replacement level demand and supportive of our rationalized capacity in Mexico. We anticipate net lease fleet investment of $300 to $400 million for the year. While we see plenty of opportunity in the secondary market as both buyers and sellers, we expect lower railcar sales as compared to 2023. We expect to deliver 53% of our total backlog in 2024. For those deliveries in the year, we expect 20 to 25% will be in-term. We expect our manufacturing and general capital expenditures to be approximately $50 million to $60 million in 2024. These expenditures are generally supporting automation, technology, and modernization of our facilities and processes.
Speaker Change: We anticipate net lease fleet investment of $300 million to $400 million for the year.
Speaker Change: We see plenty of opportunity in the secondary market as both buyers and sellers.
Speaker Change: We expect lower railcar sales as compared to 2023.
We expect to deliver 53% of our total backlog in 2024.
Speaker Change: For those deliveries in the year, we expect 20% to 25% will be insured.
Speaker Change: We expect our manufacturing in general capital expenditures to be approximately 50 million to $60 million for 2024.
Speaker Change: These expenditures are generally supportive automation technology and modernization of our facilities and processes.
Eric R. Marchetto: And finally, we're announcing our 2024 EPS guidance in a range of $1.30 to $1.50. As mentioned, this guidance reflects higher deliveries and better efficiency in our manufacturing business in 2024, driving higher margins and continuing improvement in average lease rates. The major year-over-year EPS headwinds, or higher illuminations...
Speaker Change: And finally, we are announcing our 2024 EPS guidance at a range of $1 30 to $1 50.
Speaker Change: As mentioned this guidance reflects higher deliveries and better efficiency in our manufacturing business in 'twenty 'twenty, four driving higher margins and continuing improvement in average lease rates.
Speaker Change: The major year over year, EPS headwinds or higher eliminations.
Operator: Significantly lower gains on railcar sales and a more normalized tax provision, which we define as 25 to 27 percent in 2024. In closing, 2024 is off to a strong start, and we believe the plan we have in motion is achievable and reflects the work we have done across our business to improve our financial performance. We have learned from the challenges of 2023 and believe we are better positioned as a company to remain disciplined and deliver improved returns for our business. And we look forward to sharing some longer-term targets at our Investor Day next quarter. We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star, then 1 on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys.
Speaker Change: Inefficiently lower gains on railcar sales in a more normalized tax provision, which generally we define as 25% to 27% in 2024.
Speaker Change: In closing 2024 is off to a strong start and we believe the plans we have in motion is achievable.
Speaker Change: It reflects the work we've done across our business to improve our financial performance.
Speaker Change: We have learned from the challenges of 2023 and believe we are better positioned as a company to remain disciplined and deliver improved returns for our business.
Speaker Change: And we look forward to sharing some longer term targets at our Investor day next quarter.
Speaker Change: We will now begin the question and answer session to ask a question you May Press Star then one on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speaker phone. Please pick up your handset before pressing the keys to withdraw your question. Please press Star then two.
Allison Poliniak: To withdraw your question, please press star, then. Our first question comes from Allison Poliniak with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning.
Speaker Change: Our first question comes from Allison <unk> with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.
Allison: Hi, good morning.
Gene Savage: I just want to talk through the leasing business. Obviously, rates are going to move higher for you guys. Utilization is picky, and it dropped a little bit. Could you maybe talk about kind of your view for this year? Is that utilization just sort of a one-time thing where we could see it pick back up? Like, how are those conversations going on the regular? 24.
Allison: Just wanted to talk to the leasing business, obviously rates are going to move higher for you guys utilization as being picky dropped a little bit could you maybe talk about kind of your view for this year.
Allison: That utilization just sort of a onetime thing where we can see it pick back up like how are those conversations going on the renewable fleet from 24 at this point.
Gene Savage: Great question. Thanks, Allison, and I'll start on that. When we look at 2024, we're really excited. You saw that for the full year and in the fourth quarter, we had renewal versus expiring rates up over 30%. The vast majority of the markets that these cars serve are improving. And the utilization, sometimes that'll go up and down depending on the timing. We did have some cars come back. Sometimes you have to put them through the shop to get them ready to go back into service.
Speaker Change: Great question, Thanks, Allison and I'll start on that when we look at 2024, we're really excited.
Speaker Change: You saw for the full year and in the fourth quarter, we had renewal versus expiring rates up over 30%.
Speaker Change: The vast majority of the markets that these cars shares are improving and the utilization sometimes that will go up and down depending on the timing. We did have some cars come back sometimes you have to put them through the shop to get them ready to go back into service. So we still see utilization being strong excited about that <unk>.
Gene Savage: So we still see utilization being strong, excited about that FLRD, the mix of cars that are going to be expiring this year, and then our ability to increase the rates that are going on with those cars. The last thing is our term. We've been increasing the term for these cars. In 22, it was an average of 47 months on renewals. In 23, that went up to 54 months.
D: D. The mix of cars that are going to be expiring. This year and then our ability to increase the rates that are going on with those cars and the last thing is our term we've been increasing the term for these cars in 'twenty. Two it was an average of 47 months on renewals and 23 that went up to 54.
Four months, so all of our forward looking metrics are going in the right direction.
Gene Savage: So all of our forward-looking metrics are going in the right direction. Great. And then just on the maintenance side, I guess a little bit more color on the decision to move it over. Was it being underutilized at this point?
Speaker Change: Great and then just on the maintenance side, I guess, a little bit more color on the decision to move it over was it being underutilized at this point and then I know Eric you mentioned maintenance still elevated is that going to be up relative to what it was in 'twenty three.
Allison Poliniak: And then Eric, you mentioned maintenance is still elevated. Is it going to be up relative to what it was in 2015? Sure.
Eric R. Marchetto: Sure. So when you look at the maintenance to move it over into the leasing company. The reason we did that is it gives us a very strong linkage when we look at our total cost of ownership for our customers in the lease fleet.
Eric R. Marchetto: So when you look at the maintenance, to move it over to the leasing company, the reason we did that is it gives us a very strong linkage. When we look at our total cost of ownership for customers in the lease fleet, we have great quality in our new cars that we're producing. And because of that, we do less shopping. But when we do shop, we can control the cost better. We can also look at the industry-leading turn times we have for those cars. So all those are benefits.
Eric R. Marchetto: We have great quality in our new cars that were producing and through that we have less shopping but when we do shop, we can control the cost better. We can also look at the industry, leading turn times, we have for those cars. So all of those are benefits and we want to drive that throughout our lease space to get as many cars.
Eric R. Marchetto: And we want to drive that throughout our lease fleet to get as many cars of our own through those shops as possible. The other thing that we've added over the last year or two has been our mobile repair units. And again, that benefits us and our customers because if you have a mobile repair unit, you don't have the freight cost associated with moving it to a shop. You also don't have the time associated with getting to it.
Eric R. Marchetto: As our own cars through those shops as possible.
Eric R. Marchetto: Another thing that we've added over the last year or two has been our mobile repair units and again, that's the benefit of our customers. Because if you have a mobile repair units you don't have the afraid of costs freight costs associated with moving it to a shop. You also don't have the time associated with getting to that so the cars are in service.
Eric R. Marchetto: So the cars are in service more for those customers, and that gives us a benefit. When you look at the maintenance headwinds that we're seeing for the next couple years, I think you've heard that throughout the industry. That's really to do with HM 216, so mandated compliance work that has to be done over the next several years. And so we're facing that. The way we're looking at trying to mitigate some of those costs is by putting more cars into our own shops and using those mobile repair units. So it all goes in concert.
Eric R. Marchetto: More for those customers and gives us a benefit.
Eric R. Marchetto: When you look at the maintenance headwinds that we're seeing for the next couple of years I think you've heard that throughout the industry. That's really to do with <unk> 16. So mandated compliance work that has to be done over the next several years and so we are facing that the way. We're looking at trying to mitigate some of those costs are putting more cars.
Eric R. Marchetto: So our own shops, using those mobile repair units. So it all goes in concert and I would say the final thing is it should allow you to compare us very easily with other leasing companies now we have everything in that segment that comparison is directly with others.
Eric R. Marchetto: And I would say the final thing is it should allow you to compare us very easily with other leasing companies. Now we have everything in that segment that compares us directly with others. Got it. Thank you. Our next question comes from Justin Long with Stevens. Please go ahead. Thanks and good morning.
Speaker Change: Got it thank you.
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Justin Long with Stephens. Please go ahead.
Justin Long: Thanks, and good morning.
Justin Long: So maybe to start with the question on rail products group margins, it was helpful to get the guidance for the full year, but could you give us a sense for where you're expecting to start the year as we move into the first quarter? I know there have been recent issues with EGLE, but curious if that's something that will linger into one cue and then maybe give us a sense of where you're expecting to exit the year as well. Just thinking about that progression. So, Justin, I'm going to start with leasing, just to say again, very strong FLRD utilization and great renewal rates versus expiring. So, a very stable, very strong improvement area with only 37% of that fleet being repriced so far.
Justin Long: So maybe to start with the question on rail products group margins. It was helpful to get the guidance for the full year, but could you give us a sense for where you're expecting to start the year as we move into the first quarter I know there recently then that the issues at Eagle pass, but curious if that's something that will linger.
Justin Long: <unk> and then maybe get us give us a sense of where youre expecting to exit the year as well just thinking about that progression.
Speaker Change: So Justin I'm going to start releasing just to say again very strong all our D utilization.
Speaker Change: And a great renewal rates versus expiring so very stable very strong improvement area with only 37% of that fleet being reached.
Speaker Change: Re priced so far when.
Justin Long: When we go to look at operations or manufacturing, some of the headwinds that we saw in Q4 at the border will carry over into the first quarter, along with the fact that we expect to deliver the majority of those 1300 units that did not cross the border in the fourth quarter in the first quarter of 2024. And those units did have some compression on the margin because of the extra freight that was incurred, the extra storage costs, the inefficiencies due to some of that congestion, and the supply chain issues that we had. So, that carries on.
Speaker Change: Can we go to look at our operations or manufacturing.
Speaker Change: <unk> of the headwinds that we saw in Q4 at the border will carry over into the first quarter along with the fact that we expect to deliver the majority of those 1300 units that did not cross the border in the fourth quarter in the first quarter of 2024 and those units did have some compression on the mark.
Speaker Change: And because of the extra freight that was.
Speaker Change: And third the extra storage cost the inefficiencies due to some of that congestion in the supply chain issues that we had so that carries in now I don't give quarterly guidance.
Gene Savage: Now, I don't give quarterly guidance, but I think I've given you enough looking at the fact that we expect some compression at the beginning and we expect our business to improve typically as we go throughout the year. Okay, well, maybe to ask it this way: you gave that range of 6 to 8 percent; are you expecting to remain in that range throughout the year? We would expect, based on headwinds in the first quarter, for the fourth quarter to be higher. But we're not giving quarterly guidance. So that's just right now looking at the numbers and doing the math. Okay, understood.
Speaker Change: But I think I've given you enough looking at the fact that we expect some compression at the beginning and we expect to improve typically in our business as we go throughout the year.
Speaker Change: Okay, well, maybe ask it. This way you gave that range of 6% to 8% are you expecting to remain in that range throughout the year.
Speaker Change: We would expect based off the headwinds that the first quarter for the fourth.
Speaker Change: Fourth quarter to be higher.
Speaker Change: But we're not giving quarterly guidance. So that's just right now looking at the numbers and doing the math.
Speaker Change: Okay understood and maybe secondly, I think there was a comment around inquiries picking up substantially as we've moved here into the first quarter. I was wondering if you could provide a little bit more color on what's driving that.
Gene Savage: And maybe secondly, I think there was a comment about inquiries picking up substantially as we've moved here into the first quarter. I was wondering if you could provide a little bit more color on what's driving that. And as we think about that pickup, to just kind of give us a frame of reference, do you think it's enough to support growth in the backlog the next quarter or two after seeing backlog taper here the past year or so? So I'm going to go ahead and start out with the backlog.
Speaker Change: And as we think about that pick up to just kind of give us a frame of reference do you think it's enough to support growth in the backlog the next quarter or two after seeing backlog paper here the past year or so.
Speaker Change: So I'm going to go ahead and start out with the backlog, we've got about half the industry backlog sitting in our books and in our script. We said, we expect to deliver about 53% of that this year. So looking at the order entry rate for the industry. We think that solidly supports the 40000 industry deliveries.
Gene Savage: We've got about half the industry backlog sitting in our books, and in our script, we said we expected to deliver about 53% of that this year. So looking at the order entry rate for the industry, we think that solidly supports the 40,000 industry deliveries that we talked about for the year. In the last year, it was closer to the 45, but we're still within that range. When you look at the inquiry levels, what's so exciting about those is that we're starting to see more tank cars, especially specialty tank cars. And so that's a movement that we haven't been hearing about.
That we talked about for the year.
Speaker Change: In the last year was closer to the 45, but we're still within that range.
Speaker Change: When you look at the inquiry levels, what's so exciting about those are we're starting to see more on tank cars, especially specialty tank cars.
Speaker Change: So that's a movement that we haven't been hearing about it it's been a freight car led.
Gene Savage: It's been a freight car-led increase in order entry, and seeing tankers come back is great. The other part of that is covered hoppers. We've seen some improvement there in the orders, and also other racks remain strong, and that's really driven by the mandatory requirement or aging out of some of those other racks. But if you start at the beginning of 2020 and go through the end of 2023, the industry is at a deficit of about 25,000 cars. So more cars have been retired than have been built. So we still see a strong need there overall for the cars and then the inquiry level supporting that 40,000 industry-level deliveries for this year. Okay, thanks for the time.
Speaker Change: Increase in the order entry and are seeing tank cars come back is great. The other part of that is covered hoppers are we've seen some improvement there in the orders and also other <unk> remained strong and that's really driven by the <unk>.
Speaker Change: Mandatory requirement are aging out of some of those auto rack.
Speaker Change: But if you start at the beginning of 2020 and go through the end of 2023.
Speaker Change: The industry is at a deficit of about 25000 cars. So more cars have been retired that have been built so we still see a strong need there overall for the cars and then the inquiry level supporting that 40000 industry.
Speaker Change: Level of deliveries for this year.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thanks for the time.
Justin Long: Thank you. Our next question comes from Matt Elkott with T.D. Cohen.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Matt Alcott with T. D. Cohen. Please go ahead.
Matt Elkott: Please go ahead. Good morning. Thank you. First, a quick clarification on the guide.
Matt Elkott: Good morning, Thank you.
Matt Elkott: First a quick clarification on the guide.
Matt Elkott: The magnitude of the three headwinds reflected in it, is it in the order you guys listed, meaning railcar sales is the biggest headwind, followed by eliminations, and tax? And secondly, did you give the percentage of cars you expect to build for your own lease fleet and how it compares to last year? Yeah, Matt. This is Eric.
Matt Elkott: Two of the three headwinds reflected in it.
Matt Elkott: Is it in the order you guys listed meaning railcar sales as the biggest headwinds followed by eliminations and tax.
Matt Elkott: And secondly did you give the percentage of parts do you expect to build for your own lease fleet and how it compares to last year.
Speaker Change: Yeah, Matt this year, we take the second part of that we talked about 20% to 25% of our deliveries. This.
Eric R. Marchetto: We take the second part of that; we talked about 20 to 25% of our deliveries this year going to the lease fleet. And so that's a similar range of 23. It's certainly down from what it was in previous years. We're usually closer to 30 to 35%. When you look at. I'm sorry, I drew a blank there on the... order of the headwinds.
Speaker Change: This year going into the lease fleet.
Speaker Change: And so let's see.
Speaker Change: Similar range was in 'twenty three.
Speaker Change: Certainly down from what it was in previous years, we usually we are closer to 30% to 35%.
Speaker Change: When you look at.
Speaker Change: I'm, sorry, I drew a blank down.
Speaker Change: The order of the headwinds.
Eric R. Marchetto: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the gains, we did quantify the gains, had about half the gains. In terms of the other two, we didn't quantify them, but I think that the order kind of does speak for itself in terms of what we're looking at, in terms of significance. Okay, and Eric, the lower expected sales, is it a function of secondary market valuations easing and overall demand moderating? Or is it more specific?
Speaker Change: Yes, so the gains we did quantify the gain you said about approximately half of the games and <unk>.
Speaker Change: The other two we didn't quantify them, but I think that the order kind of does speak for itself.
Speaker Change: In terms of.
Speaker Change: What we're looking at.
Speaker Change: In terms of Signet and Yep.
Speaker Change: And Eric do you does the lower expected sales is it a function of secondary market valuations using them overall demand moderating or is it more specific to them.
Eric R. Marchetto: Speaker 5 Yes not at all, when you look at the secondary market for us it demonstrated in the fourth quarter, it still remains very strong, we are seeing a lot of activity both breadth and depth. When it comes down specifically to our numbers as we look at our leasing backlog and the planned additions we have to our fleet a little bit back end weighted on the year, and so it just a matter of timing I talked about three to four hundred million dollars of net fleet investment, you know we average about three hundred million so it s up a little bit and a lot of that is due to timing, we really look at that more over a multi-year view and so it s a little bit higher than normal but the other side of it is the returns are good and so the lease originations that we are booking we are very happy with those lease rates especially in light of a higher interest rate environment, they are well above our hurdle and so we feel good about what we are originating but then it gets in the timing of when we if we were going to monetize anything. And Matt, I will say that we do reserve the right to be opportunistic if something comes up, so this is our plan right now. Alright, that makes sense. And just one last question.
Speaker Change: Factors, yes.
Eric R. Marchetto: Not at all the sand that market yeah. When you look at the secondary market.
Eric R. Marchetto: The sugar market for us as demonstrated in the fourth quarter is still remains very strong we're seeing a lot of activity, both breadth and depth when it comes down to specifically to our numbers as we look at our leasing backlog in the planned additions we have their fleet for a little bit back end weighted on the year and so.
Eric R. Marchetto: It just doesn't matter of timing I've talked about $3 million to $400 million of net fleet investment.
Eric R. Marchetto: Yes.
Eric R. Marchetto: That averaged about 300 billion, so it's up a little bit and a lot of those due to timing, we really look at that more over a multi year.
Eric R. Marchetto: Multi year view.
Eric R. Marchetto: And so it's a little bit higher than normal, but the other side of it is the returns are good and so the lease originations that we are our bookings were very happy with those lease rates, especially in light of a higher interest rate environment. They are well above our hurdle and so we feel good about what we're originating.
Eric R. Marchetto: But then it gets into the timing of when we if we were going to monetize that effect.
Eric R. Marchetto: And that I will say that we do reserve the right to be opportunistic if something comes out. So this is our plan right now.
Eric R. Marchetto: Got it that makes sense and just one last question. Thanks, Jean Eric You mentioned I think you mentioned briefly spot absolute spot lease rates can you maybe give some more insight on how they've trended.
Matt Elkott: Thanks, Gene. Eric, you mentioned, I think you mentioned briefly, spot absolute spot lease rates. Can you maybe give some more insight on how they've trended, you know, in the fourth quarter and where you see them trending in the first quarter? Maybe some more granularity by car type, as well as overall by total. Yeah, so I don't know that I mentioned anything about spot rates, but we can go there anyway. I thought you said they're still solid, but maybe I... Yeah, the rate, yeah, I'm sorry.
Jean Eric: You know in the fourth quarter, and where you see them trending in the first quarter.
Jean Eric: Maybe some more granularity by by car type as well as overall by total fleet.
So I don't know that I'd mentioned anything about spot rates, but we can go there and it was I thought you said, they they're still solid but maybe the right. Yes. Okay. Yes. The lease rates are still very strong when you look at when we look at.
Eric R. Marchetto: Okay, yeah, the rate, lease rates are still very strong. When you look at, when we look at the trends in lease rates, we're still seeing average lease rates across the portfolio still increasing. When you drill down into the car types, we're seeing that in most of the car types.
The trends in lease rates.
Jean Eric: We're still seeing.
Jean Eric: Average lease rates across the portfolio is still increasing when you drill down on the car types, we're seeing that most of the car types. So we're seeing really strong.
Eric R. Marchetto: So we're seeing really strong, effectively the yield on assets is still increasing, which is a good indicator. And as we look at the supply-demand dynamics going forward, as we look at our expiring rates for this year, that's why we're pretty bullish on our FLRD, because we see it's going to maintain a very positive number. And so we feel good about it. That's why we feel good about the lease being complete. That's why we feel good about our outlook. So quarter over quarter, spot lease rates are still trending positively. Yes. Yes, that's, yes. Are you guys surprised by that, given the fact that... I'm not, so let me tell you why.
Jean Eric: Effectively the yield on assets is still increasing.
Jean Eric: She is a good indicator and as we look at the supply to do.
Jean Eric: Demand dynamics going forward and as we look at our expiring rates for this year. That's why we're pretty bullish on our <unk> that we see it's going to maintain a very positive number.
So we feel good about that's why we feel good about the leasing placements, where we feel good about our outlook.
Jean Eric: So quarter over quarter spot lease rates are still trending.
Jean Eric: Trending positively.
Jean Eric: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes, that's yes.
Speaker Change: Are you guys surprised by that given the fact that.
Speaker Change: Let me tell you why.
Eric R. Marchetto: So when you look at when you look at new car lease rates, new car prices are still much higher, because marginal costs of capital are higher. There's still, you know, investing in a new rail car still requires a very high lease rate. When you compare that to fleet averages, there's a big gap there. And so we still see a lot of room for upward pricing on the yield of assets. And the fleet, you know; the fleet is tight.
Speaker Change: When you look at when you look at new car lease rates new car prices are still are much higher.
Speaker Change: The marginal cost of capital or higher.
Speaker Change: Still to invest in a new railcar Stewart borrowers are very high lease rate when you compare that to fleet averages theres, a big gap there and so we still see a lot of room for upward pricing on the yield of assets.
Speaker Change: And in the fleet deplete as tight when you look at railcar loadings, you look at the cars in storage and we look more detailed with that we see most of the markets and a very solid demand supply environment.
Eric R. Marchetto: When you look at railcar loadings, you look at cars and storage. And when we look more detail at that, we see most of the markets in a very solid demand-supply environment. And so, and we're not the only ones seeing it because other lessors are pushing rates as well. Great. Thank you so much, Eric. Thanks, Gene. Thanks. Our next question comes from Steve Barger with KeyBank Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Good morning, everyone. This is Kristian Zeiland for Steve Barger.
Speaker Change: And so.
Speaker Change: We're not the only ones seen it because otherwise tours are pushing rates as well.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you so much Eric Thanks, Jim.
Speaker Change: Thanks.
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Steve Barker with Keybanc capital markets. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Good morning, everyone. This is Christian dial on for Steve Barger.
Steve Barger: First question: what percentage of the total fleet is now owned by lessors? And what do you think the upper limit on that might be? This is a day where lessors own most of the active cars. So about 55% of the overall cars are owned by lessors now, and it really depends. The railroads continue to keep some in their own fleet, mainly box cars, auto racks, things like wheel cars, yeah, and green cars.
Christian: Thanks for taking the questions.
Christian: First question.
Christian: What percentage of the total fleet is now owned by Lessors and what do you think the upper limit on that might be do you see a day, where lessors on most of the active cars or just any thoughts there.
Speaker Change: So about 55% of the overall.
Speaker Change: Cars are owned by Lessors now and it really depends railroads continue to keep some in their own fleet, mainly boxcars, Iraq seems like was harsh yellow and green cars and we do have end customers, who would like to have their own fleets also but 55%.
Gene Savage: And we do have end customers who like to have their own fleets also. But 55% is definitely a big shift from when the railroads owned the majority of the cars. Great, thank you.
Speaker Change: It is definitely a a big shifts from when the railroads owned the majority of the cars.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you and then last quarter you made the comment that 40% of your backlog will be delivered in 'twenty. Four I think the most recent one was 53% are those additional deliveries primarily driven by the cars impacted by the border issue or can you just walk through what changed quarter to quarter.
Kristine Kubacki: And then last quarter, you made the comment that 40% of your backlog will be delivered in 24 hours. Are those additional deliveries primarily driven by the cars impacted by the border issue, or can you just walk through what changed? What changed quarter-by-quarter was just the natural roll-off in changes from one quarter to the next. We delivered railcars, we took orders; you add another quarter of deliveries. And so I don't know that there's any trend to that. It's just kind of how the math works.
Speaker Change: It will change quarter by quarter is just the natural roll off and changes from one quarter to other we delivered railcars. We took orders you add another quarter deliveries and so.
Speaker Change: I don't know that there is any.
Speaker Change: Trend to that it's just that's just kind of how the math works.
Speaker Change: Got it and then if I could just sneak one more in for the railcar margins I.
Eric R. Marchetto: Got it. For the rail Car Margin, I guess, can you just walk through the actions that you guys are planning or can take? margins, but there will be lower, walk through what actually happens. Sure. And when you look at it, we're actually expecting higher deliveries this year. We have the 1,300 carrying over from the prior year.
Speaker Change: I guess could you just walk through the actions that you guys are planning or it can take just two I think the commentary is to improve margins, but there will be lower deliveries. So just can you just walk through what actions you guys are pointing to ticket. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Sure and when you look at it we're actually expecting higher deliveries. This year, we have the <unk> hundred carrying over from the prior year.
Gene Savage: We also talked about the headwinds in the first quarter due to the border issues flowing over into the first quarter from the fourth quarter and the margins that were impacted by some of the freight storage efficiencies that occurred in 2023 in the fourth quarter due to that border constraint. The other thing that we look at is we're continuing to work on automation. Every quarter, our employees are getting stronger in their training, and we're seeing efficiency pick up. And so the initiatives, the actions, and the training all lead to improvement throughout the year. And I guess the last thing I will add to it is changeovers. So I would expect our changeovers to be closer to the second half of 23 in 2024, so we do have less of those causing a headwind toward those margins.
Speaker Change: We also talked about the headwinds in the first quarter due to the border issues.
Speaker Change: Flowing over into first quarter from fourth quarter and the margins that were impacted by some other freight storage efficiencies that occurred in 2023 in the fourth quarter due to that border constraint. The other things that we look at is we're continuing to work on automation.
Speaker Change: Every quarter, our employees are getting stronger in their training and we're seeing the efficiency pickup.
And so the initiatives the actions the training all lead to improvement throughout the year.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: And then I guess, the last thing I will add to it as changeovers. So I would expect our changeovers to be closer to the second half of 'twenty. Three in 2024. So we do have less of those are causing a headwind towards those margins.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Gene Savage: This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Gene Savage for any closing remarks. Well, thank you for joining us this morning. For every unexpected challenge in 2023, Trinity found a unique solution. As we look at 2024, we anticipate continued margin growth, consistent operations, and a focus on improving the returns of our business. Thank you for your support of Trinity. We look forward to speaking again in May and seeing you in Dallas in June for Investor Day. The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.
Speaker Change: This concludes our question and answer session I would now.
Speaker Change: Like to turn the conference back over to Jean Savage for any closing remarks.
Jean Savage: Well. Thank you for joining us this morning for every unexpected challenge in 2023 Trinity found a unique solutions as we look to 2024, we anticipate continued margin growth consistent operations and a focus on improving the returns of our business.
Jean Savage: Thank you for your support of Trinity, We look forward to speaking again in May and seeing you in Dallas in June for the Investor Day.
The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation you may now disconnect.