Q4 2023 Trinity Capital Inc Earnings Call

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Operator: ** Trumpet playing** Please stand by, we're about to begin. Good afternoon. My name is Jamie, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to Trinity Capital's fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings conference call. Our hosts for today are Kyle Brown, Chief Executive Officer, Michael Testa, Chief Financial Officer, Jerry Harder, Chief Operating Officer, and Ben Malcolmson, Head of Investor Relations. Ron Kundich, Chief Credit Officer, and Sarah Stanton, Chief Compliance Officer and General Counsel, are also present. This call is being recorded and will be available for replay beginning at approximately 3 p.m. Eastern. The replay dial-in number is... 800-839-7414, and no conference ID is required for access.

[music].

Please standby we're about to begin.

Okay.

Good afternoon, My name is Jamie and I will be your conference operator today at this time I would like to welcome everyone to Trinity Capital's fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings conference call.

Our hosts for today are Kyle Brown, Chief Executive Officer, Michael Pester, Chief Financial Officer, Jerry harder Chief Operating Officer, and then Malcolmson head of Investor Relations.

Ron <unk>, Chief Credit Officer, and Sara Stanton, Chief Compliance Officer, and General Counsel are also present.

This call is being recorded and will be available for replay beginning at approximately three P M. Eastern.

The replay dial in number is eight.

800 839.

Seven four.

One four and no conference ideas required for access.

Operator: At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode, and the floor will be open for your questions following the presentation. If you would like to ask a question at that time, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. If at any point your question has been answered, you may remove yourself from the queue by pressing star 2.

At this time all participants are in a listen only mode.

Yeah.

And the floor will be opened for your questions. Following the presentation.

I would like to ask a question at that time. Please press star one on your telephone keypad.

If at any point. Your question has been answered you may remove yourself from the queue by pressing star two.

Operator: We ask that when you pose your question, please pick up your handset to allow optimal sound quality. Lastly, if you should require operator assistance, please press star zero. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Trinity Capital's Head of Investor Relations, Ben Malcolmson. Please go ahead.

We also when posing your question please pick up your handset to allow optimal sound quality.

Lastly, if you should require operator assistance, please press star zero.

It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Trinity Capitals head of Investor Relations then malcolmson. Please go ahead.

Ben Malcolmson: Thank you, Jamie. And welcome to Trinity Capital's earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and full year 2023. Trinity's financial results were released today prior to the open of the financial markets and can be accessed from our investor relations website at ir.trinitycap.com. A replay of the call will be available on our website or by using the telephone number provided in today's earnings release.

Thank you, Jamie and welcome to Trinity Capital's earnings Conference call for the fourth quarter and full year 2023.

True. These financial results were released today prior to the open of the financial markets and can be accessed from our Investor Relations website at IR Dot <unk> Dot com.

A replay of the call will be available on our website or by using the telephone numbers provided in today's earnings release.

Ben Malcolmson: Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone that certain statements that are not based on historical facts made during this call, including any statements relating to financial guidance, may be deemed forward-looking statements under federal securities laws. Because these forward-looking statements involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties, there are important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by these forward-looking statements. We encourage you to refer to our most recent SEC filings for information on some of these risk factors. Trinity Capital assumes no obligation or responsibility to update any forward-looking statements. Please note that the information reported on this call applies only as of today, March 6, 2024. Therefore, you are advised that time-sensitive information may no longer be accurate at the time of any replay listening or transcript reading.

Before we begin I would like to remind everyone that certain statements that are not based on historical facts made during this call, including any statements relating to financial guidance may be deemed forward looking statements under federal Securities laws.

Because these forward looking statements involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties. There are important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by these forward looking statements.

We encourage you to refer to our most recent SEC filings for information on some of these risk factors Trinity capital assumes no obligation or responsibility to update any forward looking statements. Please note that the information reported on this call speaks only as of today March six 2024, therefore, you're advised that time sensitive and.

Formation may no longer be accurate at the time of any replay listening or transcript reading.

Kyle Steven Brown: Now, please allow me to turn the call over to Trinity Capital's CEO, Kyle Brown. Thanks, Ben. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today.

Now please allow me to turn the call over to Trinity Capital C E O tile Brown.

Thanks, Ben Thank you everyone for joining us today Trinity's all delivered record fourth quarter results round out a tremendous year for our platform in 2023, we advanced our strategy significantly grew the platform strengthened our balance sheet diversified our portfolio and enhanced multiple revenue streams also the long term benefit of our share.

Kyle Steven Brown: Trinity delivered record fourth-quarter results to round out a tremendous year for our platform. In 2023, we advanced our strategy, significantly grew the platform, strengthened our balance sheet, diversified our portfolio, and enhanced multiple revenue streams, all to the long-term benefit of our shareholders. Most notably, we outperformed across multiple operating metrics, setting several financial and performance records through the efforts of our incredibly talented team. Headline accomplishments include record quarterly fundings of $267 million in Q4, contributing to a record year with $642 million in total fundings in 2023. Platform AUM growth of 29% year over year, pushing our assets under management to approximately $1.5 billion, and a record $90 million of net investment income, up 26% year over year. This exceptional performance allowed us to increase our quarterly dividend to $0.50 per share in the fourth quarter. Making this the 12th consecutive quarter we have increased our regular dividends.

Holders motives.

Most notably we outperformed across multiple operating metrics setting several financial and performance records throughout the efforts of our incredibly talented team.

Headline accomplishments include record quarterly fundings of 267 million in Q4.

Contributing to a record year with 642 million of total fundings in 2023 <unk>.

Platform <unk> growth of 29% year over year, pushing our assets under management to approximately $1 5 billion and a record $90 million of net investment income up 26% year over year. This exceptional.

So performance allowed us to increase our quarterly dividend to <unk> 50 per share in the fourth quarter, making this the 12th consecutive quarter, we increased our regular dividend.

Kyle Steven Brown: In the face of industry-wide pressure from disruption in the banking industry in 2023, we emphasized our proactive portfolio management strategies and partnered with borrowers to navigate a challenging operating environment while continuing to grow our asset center management. Additionally, we continue to invest in our platform by growing our team. Scaling the Strategy, which we believe widens our funnel as we pursue attractive investment opportunities across the ecosystem of growth-oriented companies. We've organized our business around distinct vertical market opportunities Tech Lending, Life Sciences, Equipment Financing, and Warehouse Lending, each with its own dedicated originations, credit, and portfolio management.

In the face of industry wide pressure from disruption in the banking industry. In 2023, we emphasized our proactive portfolio management strategies and partnered with borrowers to navigate a challenging operating environment, while continuing to grow our assets under management additions.

Additionally, we continue to invest in our platform by growing our team scaling the strategy, which we believe widens our funnel as we pursue attractive investment opportunities across the ecosystem of growth oriented companies.

We've organized our business around distinct vertical market opportunities Tech lending life sciences equipment financing and warehouse lending each with its own dedicated originations credit and portfolio management teams.

Kyle Steven Brown: The performance of our life sciences vertical provides an excellent example of Trinity's commitment to scale and asset diversification. We launched this business vertical in 2022, and since that time, we've opened a satellite office in the city of San Diego and hired best-in-class talent to expand our deal teams. As of December 31st, 2023, our life sciences portfolio sits at approximately $183 million on a cost basis and represents nearly 14% of our total portfolio. Within our tech lending vertical, we continue to grow our footprint by adding proven, experienced talent to our deal teams. In 2023, we expanded our East Coast presence with the appointment of three new originators in New York and Boston, giving us a regional footprint in several major tech markets.

The performance of our life Sciences vertical provides an excellent example of trinity's commitment to scale and asset diversification. We launched this business vertical in 2022 and since that time, we've opened a satellite office in the location of San Diego and higher best in class talent to expand our deal teams as of December 31, 2023 our life Sciences portfolio.

Polio sits at approximately 183 million on a cost basis and represents nearly 14% of our total total portfolio.

Within our tech lending vertical we continue to grow our footprint by adding proven experienced talent to our deal teams in 2023 we expanded our east coast presence with the appointments of three new originators in New York, and Boston, giving us a regional footprint in several major tech markets. We also began to realize the benefits of our direct lending joint venture in 2023.

Kyle Steven Brown: We also began to realize the benefits of our direct lending joint venture in 2023. As we've mentioned in prior earnings calls, this off-balance sheet vehicle provides incremental capital for growth and accretive returns to our shareholders. In Q4 2023, the joint venture provided approximately $1.1 million of interest, dividend, and fee income to the BBC and had $153.4 million of assets at fair value as of December 31, 2023.

As we've mentioned in prior earnings calls this off balance sheet vehicle provides incremental capital for growth and accretive returns to our shareholders in.

In Q4 2023, the joint venture provided approximately $1 1 million of interest dividend and fee income to the BDC and at $153 million for millions of assets at fair value as of December 31, 2023.

Kyle Steven Brown: We ended 2023 with a strong investment pipeline, including $358 million in unfunded commitments. But as a reminder, many of our unfunded commitments are subject to performance milestones, and all of Trinity's unfunded term loan and equipment financing commitments are subject to ongoing diligence and approval by our investment committee. We will remain very selective and committed to adhering to our disciplined deal selection and credit underwriting processes, and as a result, we're seeing larger and more mature businesses enter the pipeline. This is great momentum as we head into 2024.

We ended 2023 with a strong investment pipeline, including 358 million in unfunded commitments, but as a reminder, many of our unfunded commitments are subject to performance milestones and alternative unfunded term loan and equipment financing commitments are subject to ongoing diligence and approval by our investment Committee, we will remain very selective and committed to adhering to our disciplined deal selection and.

Credit underwriting process and as a result, we're seeing larger and more mature businesses into the pipeline.

This is great momentum as we head into 2024 as.

Michael Testa: As we said before, our team is the cornerstone of Trinity's success and will be the key to our growth moving forward. We are committed to creating a unique culture of excellence that is built around our six pillars of humility, integrity, trust, uncommon care, continuous learning, and entrepreneurialism, all of which create the differentiated lending platform that we built here at Trinity. We strive to provide value above and beyond expectations to every part of the Trinity platform, whether that's employees, clients, or investors, and as an internally managed BDC, our structure allows us to maintain 100% alignment with our shareholders' best interests. Another key factor is that, as a direct lender, we continue to own our pipeline with originators strategically located around the country to bring in opportunities through deep relationships with sponsors, banks, and operators.

As we said before our team is the cornerstone of Trinity's success and will be the key to our growth moving forward. We are committed to creating the unique culture of excellence that is built around our six pillars of humility integrity trust uncommon care continuous learning and entrepreneur realism, all of which create the differentiated lending platform that we built here at Trinity we stir.

To provide value above and beyond expectations to every part of the Trinity platform, whether that's employees clients or investors and as an internally managed BDC our structure allows us to maintain 100% alignment with our shareholders best interests.

Another key factor is that as a direct lender, we continue to own our pipeline with originators strategically located around the country to bringing in opportunities through deep relationships with sponsors banks and operators.

Michael Testa: For Trinity, the commitment to our portfolio companies and the relationships we've developed as a result allows us to invest in a wide array of opportunities supported by quality sponsors. In 2023, an aggregate of nearly $3 billion was raised by 45 of our portfolio companies. Our high-quality portfolio companies continue to secure the funding they seek, and Trinity continues to be a less dilutive source of growth capital for them. We focus on doing three things exceptionally well here at Trinity, exhibiting uncommon care for our employees and partners, being more than just money for our clients, and providing outsized returns for our investors. We expect 2024 to be a strong one for sponsor-backed growth-oriented companies, providing us with the opportunity to continue to expand this platform. We look forward to continuing this trajectory into 2024 and in the years to come. And with that, I'll turn the call over to Michael Testa, our CFO. Mike. Thank you, Kyle, and welcome to everybody joining us today.

For Trinity the commitment to our portfolio companies and the relationships. We've developed as a result allows us to invest in a wide array of opportunities supported by quality sponsors in 2023, an aggregate of nearly 3 billion was raised by 45 of our portfolio companies are high quality portfolio companies continue to secure the funding they seek and Trinity to continue.

To be a less dilutive source of growth capital for them.

We focus on doing three things exceptionally well here at Trinity exhibiting uncommon care for our employees and partners being more than just money for our clients and providing outsized returns for our investors. We expect 'twenty 'twenty four to be a strong one for stroke for sponsored back growth oriented companies, providing us with the opportunity to continue to expand.

This platform, we look forward to continuing this trajectory into 2024 and in the years to come and with that I'll turn the call over to Michael test up our CFO Mike.

Thank you Kyle and welcome to everybody joining us today.

As Colin mentioned, we set records in several key areas in 2023.

In Q4, we achieved record total investment income of $48 million.

Michael Testa: As Kyle mentioned, we set records in several key areas in 2023. For example, in Q4, we achieved a record total investment income of $48 million, a 15% increase over the same period in 2022. Total investment income for 2023 was $182 million, a 25% increase over 2022. Our core yield on the portfolio for Q4 was once again strong at 16.7%, our core yield which excludes non-recurring fee income. 15.2%, down slightly from 15.5% core yield in the prior quarter. However, investment income for the quarter was a record $25.1 million, or $0.57 per basic share, an increase of 16% compared to $21.6 million, or $0.62 per basic share, in the same period of the prior year.

A 15% increase over the same period in 2022.

Total investment income for 2023 was $182 million, a 25% increase over 2022.

Our core yield on the portfolio for Q4 was once again strong at 16, 7%.

Our core yield which excludes nonrecurring fee income.

15, 2% down slightly from 15, 5% core yields in the prior quarter.

Net investment income for the quarter was a record $25 $1 million.

Or <unk> 57 per basic share an increase of 16% compared to $21 $6 million or <unk> 62.

Cents per basic share in the same period of the prior year.

Our net investment income represents 114% coverage of our quarterly distribution.

Having out earned our regular and some supplemental distributions throughout 2023, we ended the year with more than $64 million of undistributed income or approximately $1 39 per share.

Michael Testa: Our net investment income represents 114% coverage of our quarterly distribution. Having outearned our regular and supplemental distributions throughout 2023, we ended the year with more than $64 million in undistributed income, or approximately $1.39 per share. Our platform continues to generate strong returns for our shareholders with ROAE based on net investment income over average equity of 16.9% and ROAA based on NII over average total assets of 8.3%, all while operating with leverage at the low end of our target. As of December 31st, 2023.

Our platform continues to generate strong returns for our shareholders with Aro AE based on net investment income over average equity of 16, 9%.

Oh, Hey, based on NII over average total assets of eight 3% all while operating with leverage at the low end of our target range.

As of December 31, 2023.

Net asset value increased 7% to $611 million in NAV per share increased by $13 19 per share up <unk> <unk> from Q3.

Year over year earnings per share increased <unk> from $13 15 per share.

Michael Testa: Net asset value increased 7% to $611 million, and NAV per share increased by $13.19 per share, up two cents from Q3. Year over year, NAV per share increased four cents from $13.15 per share. This increase in NAV was primarily the result of record net investment income exceeding the company's declared dividends and accretive equity offset. Moving to liquidity, as of December 31, 2023, we had total liquidity of $142 million, comprised of $137 million of undrawing capacity under our credit facility and approximately $5 million in unrestricted cash and cash equivalents. Additionally, we have continued to co-invest with our joint venture, which provides additional investment liquidity, and as of December 31st, had approximately $100 million of on-call capital and availability on the JV's credit facility. Our net leverage ratio, which represents principal debt outstanding with cash on hand, was 1.05 times as of December 31st, 2023.

This increase in NAV was primarily the result of record net investment income exceeding the company's declared dividends and accretive equity offerings.

Moving to liquidity as of December 31, 2023, we had total liquidity of $142 million comprised of $137 million of Undrawn capacity under our credit facility.

And approximately $5 million in unrestricted cash and cash equivalents.

Additionally, we have continued to co invest with their joint venture.

With provides additional investment liquidity and as of December 31, <unk> had approximately $100 million of uncalled capital and availability on the Jv's credit facility.

Our net leverage ratio, which represents principal debt outstanding less cash on hand was 1.15 times as of December 31 2023.

Our strong liquidity position and the fact that we're currently at the lower end of our targeted leverage range provides <unk> with the flexibility to manage a strong pipeline.

And be opportunistic in the marketplace.

During the quarter, we expanded our ATM program and added another sales agent.

Gerald Harder: Our strong liquidity position and the fact that we're currently at the lower end of our targeted leverage range provides Trinity with the flexibility to manage a strong pipeline and be opportunistic in the marketplace. During the quarter, we expanded our ATM program and added another sale. In Q4, we raised approximately $46 million in proceeds at a premium to NAF, further supporting the long-term growth of Trinity. I'll now turn the call over to our COO, Jerry Harder, to discuss our portfolio performance and platform in more detail. Jerry.

In Q4, we raised approximately $46 million in proceeds at a premium to NAV further supporting our long term growth of training.

I will now I'll turn the call over to our CFO, Jeremy harder to discuss our portfolio performance and platform in more detail Gary.

Thank you Michael.

Trinity capital experienced tremendous growth in 2023.

As we continue to scale and diversify our platform in 2024 and beyond we're hyper focused on maintaining our disciplined and systematic investment approach as well as the culture and core values that have been the driving forces for our success and which differentiate trinity from its peers.

Gerald Harder: Thank you, Michael. Trinity Capital experienced tremendous growth in 2020. As we continue to scale and diversify our platform in 2024 and beyond, we're hyper focused on maintaining our disciplined and systematic investment approach, as well as the culture and core values that have been the driving forces for our success and which differentiate Trinity from its peers. The composition of our portfolio remained consistent with prior quarters and shows diversification across investment type, transaction size, industry, and geography. We've intentionally constructed a portfolio with varied segmentation across 21 industries, with our largest industry exposure space technology representing 14.1% of the portfolio at cost. As mentioned earlier, our life sciences portfolio represented a total of 14% of our portfolio at cost and was further comprised of a mix of medical devices, healthcare technology, and biotechnology with minimal regulatory exposure.

The composition of our portfolio remained consistent with prior quarters and shows diversification across investment type transaction size industry and geography, we've intentionally constructed a portfolio with varied segmentation across 21 industries with our largest industry exposure space technology.

Representing 14, 1% of the portfolio at cost.

As mentioned earlier, our life Sciences portfolio represented a total of 14% of our portfolio at cost and was further comprised of a mix of medical devices health care technology, and biotechnology with minimal regulatory exposure.

Equipment financings represented 25, 5% of our year end portfolio on a cost basis.

I'd like to address one investment in our equipment finance vertical we recently announced the commitment of $120 million and aggregate equipment financing to rocket lab, a leading provider of space launch services and advanced satellite technology.

This deal closed just prior to year end and shows on our year end schedule of investments, but at cost and fair value of $108 $4 million for the equipment financing.

Gerald Harder: Equipment financing represented 25.5% of our year-end portfolio on a cost basis. I'd like to address one investment in our equipment finance vertical. We recently announced the commitment of $120 million in aggregate equipment financing to Rocket Lab, a leading provider of space launch services and advanced satellite technology. This deal closed just prior to year end and shows on our year-end schedule of investments with a cost and fair value of $108.4 million for the equipment financing. However, subsequent to year end, and in addition to three scheduled amortization payments, The company repaid approximately $40 million in principal.

However, subsequent to year end and in addition to three scheduled amortization payments the company repaid approximately $40 million of principal. Additionally, we syndicated a portion of the remaining principal to our joint venture, bringing our investment in rocket lab to approximately four 5% of our debt portfolio.

Palio on a cost basis.

During Q4 early debt repayments were in line with our historical average totaling $43 million, including an early pay off of our digital asset equipment financing to eight following the completion of their merger.

We also received $41 million in scheduled repayments and $25 million of proceeds from sales to our joint venture.

Gerald Harder: Additionally, we syndicated a portion of the remaining principal to our joint venture, bringing our investment in Rocket Lab to approximately 4.5% of our debt portfolio on a cost basis. During Q4, early debt repayments were in line with our historical average, totaling $43 million, including an early payoff of our digital asset equipment financing to 8 following the completion of their merger. We also received $41 million in scheduled repayments and $25 million of proceeds from sales to our joint fund. Shifting gears to credit, the credit quality of our portfolio companies remains stable, with approximately 96.5% of our portfolio performing on a fair value basis. Our average internal credit rating for the fourth quarter stood at 2.7 based on our 1 to 5 rating system, with 5 indicating very strong performance.

Shifting gears to credit the credit quality of our portfolio companies remained stable with approximately 96, 5% of our portfolio are performing.

On a fair value basis.

Our average internal credit rating for the fourth quarter stood at $2 seven based on our one to five rating system with five indicating very strong performance. This.

This rating is in line with our average credit rating and each of the last four quarters and reinforces trinity's track record of low loss rates.

At year end, we had five portfolio companies on nonaccrual with a total fair value of approximately $43 2 million representing.

Representing three 5% the total debt portfolio.

However, this figure includes our investment in core scientific at a cost and fair value of $23 2 million and $25 $4 million respectively.

Subsequent to year end, we removed our investment in core scientific from non accrual status. After its January 2024 exit from chapter 11 bankruptcy and our election to receive shares of its common stock in lieu of our debt investment.

Gerald Harder: This rating is in line with our average credit rating in each of the last four quarters and reinforces Trinity's track record of low losses. At year end, we had five portfolio companies on non-accrual with a total fair value of approximately $43.2 million, representing 3.5% of the total debt portfolio. However, this figure includes our investment in Core Scientific at a cost and fair value of $23.2 million and $25.4 million, respectively. Subsequent to year end, we removed our investment in Core Scientific from non-accrual status after its January 2024 exit from Chapter 11 bankruptcy and our election to receive shares of its common stock in lieu of our debt investment.

As we have communicated in the past in general we are not equity investors and would anticipate making an orderly sale of our equity position for the benefit of our shareholders.

Outside of core scientific or other for non accrual assets represented only one 5% of our debt portfolio on a fair value basis.

We have a dedicated team of investment professionals, who are solely focused on portfolio management and asset quality and they continue to take a vigilant approach to the quality and overall health of our portfolio companies.

We remain confident in their ability to find resolutions that benefit both the portfolio company and our shareholders.

Operator: As we have communicated in the past, in general, we are not equity investors and would anticipate making an orderly sale of our equity position for the benefit of our shareholders. Outside of Core Scientific, our other four non-accrual assets represented only 1.5% of our debt portfolio on a fair value basis. We have a dedicated team of investment professionals who are solely focused on portfolio management and asset quality, and they continue to take a vigilant approach to the quality and overall health of our portfolio companies. We remain confident in their ability to find solutions that benefit both the portfolio company and our shareholders. At this time, we'd like to open the line for questions. Operator?

At this time I'd like to open the line for questions operator.

Thank you at this time, if you would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad, you may remove yourself from the queue at any time by pressing star kill.

Once again that is star one if you would like to ask a question and star two to remove yourself, we will pause for just a moment to assemble the question queue.

We'll go first to velocity from with UBS.

Hey, everyone. Thanks for taking the question.

For my first of all I, just wanted to ask about capital management.

Re lever the balance sheet in Q4.

Operator: Thank you. At this time, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. You may remove yourself from the queue at any time by pressing star two.

But also tap the ATM for equity issuance.

Think about supporting growth in 'twenty, four which clearly looks like there is an opportunity to do.

Do you expect to balance the two and and as that leverage target range still.

Vilas T. Abraham: Once again, that is star 1 if you would like to ask a question and star 2 to remove yourself. We will pause for just a moment to assemble the question queue. We'll go first to Vilas Abraham with UBS. Hey, everyone, thanks for taking the question. For my first one, I just wanted to ask about capital management. So you re-leveraged the balance sheet in Q4, but you also tapped the ATM for equity issuance. So as you think about supporting growth in 24, which, you know, clearly looks like there's an opportunity to do, how do you expect to balance the two? And, and is that leverage target range still the 1.1 to 1.3 that you've talked about before? Hey Vilas, this is Kyle.

1213 that you talked about before.

Hi, This is Kyle so yeah.

Yeah, we we expect that leverage ratio to be between one and one three.

I think some of the benefits that we are beginning to experience some will experience further in the future is.

Managing capital off balance sheet generating new.

Income gives us the ability to really keep that leverage maybe even lower than some of the expectations of some of our history.

Giving us really ample liquidity.

To be opportunistic with what the market presents and so I think that.

Kyle Steven Brown: So, we expect that leverage ratio to be between 1 and 1.3. I think some of the benefits that we are beginning to experience and will experience further in the future are managing capital off the balance sheet; generating new income gives us the ability to really keep that leverage, maybe even lower than some of the expectations or some of our history, giving us really ample liquidity. And to be opportunistic with what the market presents. And so, I think that, you know, we're going to continue to build our balance sheet. We're going to continue to add in equity and leverage appropriately, as you've seen, though, we make sure we do that to the benefit of shareholders so that we can continue to increase that dividend and outearn it. And so that certainly plays into every discussion or thought around building a balance sheet. The only thing I'd like to add to that is that we also don't have any immediate maturities on our borrowings, but we will look to refinance opportunistically throughout 2024 on the debt side. Okay, I got it. It's helpful.

We're going to continue to build the balance sheet.

We're going to continue to.

And in equity and leverage appropriately as <unk> seen though we make sure we do that to the benefit of shareholders.

So that we can continue to increase that dividend and out earn it.

And so that certainly plays into.

Every discussion or thought around building the balance sheet.

The only thing I'd add to that is also we don't have any immediate maturities on our borrowings, but we will look to refinance.

<unk> opportunistically throughout 2024 on the debt side.

Hum.

Okay got it.

And then just on the JV portfolio. So it is.

Up about $25 million to $30 million or so per quarter. The last couple of quarter is around.

150 million now I believe is that the pace that.

We should continue to expect.

Vilas T. Abraham: Then just find the JV portfolio. So it's up about 25 to $30 million or so per quarter. The last couple of quarters were around $150 million now, I believe.

You tried to get to I think closer to that $500 million in debt capacity for that portfolio.

Yeah. Thank you I think youll continue to see that to be consistent adding new assets.

Christopher Whitbread Patrick Nolan: Is that the pace that we should continue to expect as we try to get to, I think closer to, $500 million in capacity for that portfolio? Yeah, I think I think you'll continue to see that be consistent, adding new assets. And I think the general theme of adding assets off the balance sheet and co investing alongside of the BDC, that will just be a regular thing on an ongoing basis, whether it's a JV or a separate. Okay, thank you, blah.

And I think the general theme of adding assets off balance sheet and co investing alongside of the BDC that will just be irregular, saying on an ongoing basis, whether it's JV or a separate entity or separate entities.

Okay.

Okay. Thank you.

You bet.

Well go next to Christopher Nolan with Ladenburg Thalmann.

Hey, guys.

What was the driver for the higher fee income in the quarter.

Michael Testa: We'll go next to Christopher Nolan with Landberg-Thalman. Hey guys, what was the dry risk of the higher fee income in the quarter? Yeah, it's a combination. This is Mike Testa here.

Yeah.

Yes, it's a combination it's.

It's Mike Testa here, it's a combination of some of the fees from early repayments that came in the quarter. We noted.

Gerald Harder: It's a combination of some of the fees from early repayments that came in the quarter. We noted HUD 8, and we had another nice repayment on a physician that was funded one or two years ago. So we got a nice repayment on that, but also with our equipment financings in the quarter, we get the benefit of some of the upfront structuring fees that come in during that quarter. So you can see in our fundings this quarter skew to the equipment financing vertical, and those fees will be recognized in Q4. Great. And then I guess I will turn to Rocket Labs, is it?

HUD eight and we had another nice repayment on a position that was funded.

One or two years ago. So we've got nice repayment on that but also with our equipment financings in the quarter, we get the benefit of some of the upfront structuring fees that come in at that quarter. So you can see in our.

Fundings this quarter skew to the equipment financing vertical.

That those fees being recognized.

Recognized in Q4.

Great.

And then I guess.

Turning to rocket labs.

Is it.

Kyle Steven Brown: Space tends to be a very, you know, expensive business. Should we see more activity on the space front and also big funding commitments like that? Yeah, I think, Chris, I'd start that discussion with just our equipment finance vertical in general, right, you know, as we've discussed in the past and another prepared remarks, you know, we're looking for mission critical equipment for, you know, growth stage businesses with, you know, strong investor capitalization support and unique technology, etc. So, you know, I think space definitely fits within that equipment finance vertical target. And so, you know, to that extent, it's an exciting space for us, but, You know, we're really focused more on the equipment than anyone on the street, if that makes sense.

Space is tends to be a very you know expensive business and.

Should we see more activity on the space fronting for also big funding commitments like that.

Yes.

Yes, I think Chris I'd start.

That discussion with just our equipment finance vertical in general right now as we've.

Discussed in the past and then other prepared remarks.

We're looking for mission critical equipment for growth stage businesses with strong investor or capitalization support.

<unk> technology et cetera, So you know I think space definitely.

Fits within that equipment.

Vertical target and so to that extent.

It's an exciting space for us but.

Where we're really focused more on the equipment than any one industry if that makes sense.

Christopher Whitbread Patrick Nolan: And I guess a final question. Some of your BDC technology BDC peers are seeing slower deal flow just from the slowdown in the venture sector. You guys don't seem to be experiencing that. Is that fair to say? And who would you consider your biggest competitors in equipment finance? Hey, Chris, this is Kyle.

Great and I guess a final question.

Some of your BDC technology BDC peers are seeing just slower deal flow just from the slowdown in the venture sector.

You guys don't seem to be experiencing that is that fair to say, Ed who would you consider your biggest competitors are in the equipment financing area.

Hey, Chris This is Kyle.

Kyle Steven Brown: So I think one of the benefits we have is having these multiple verticals, which are really not all influenced by venture capital, right? For example, equipment financing is a very different and differentiated business. There are similarities there, but those are not all venture-backed; they could be PE-backed, they could be small market, public companies, etc. Our life science and healthcare business, with us focusing primarily on commercialized products, scaling rapidly, a kind of post FDA approval, primarily shift to different markets altogether. And then so I think we're just playing in different boxes than many of our peers. The venture debt business, I would say last year was a little bit more challenging. And we have seen a lot of, you know, tailwinds really over the last couple quarters there, though.

So I think one of the benefits. We have is having these multiple verticals, which really are not all influenced by venture right and so equipment financing that is a very different and differentiated business. There's similarities there, but but those were not all venture backed now they could be piggyback. They can be small market public companies et cetera.

Our life Science, and health care business with us focusing primarily on commercialized products scaling rapidly kind of post FDA approval primarily.

So it's a different market altogether.

And then so I think we're just we're playing in different boxes than many of our peers.

The venture debt business I would say last year was a little bit more challenging.

We have seen a lot of tailwind really over the last couple of quarters there though.

Christopher Whitbread Patrick Nolan: On the equipment financing angle, there's really not any notable groups to mention there; it's pretty convoluted, just smaller, smaller peers, not non-public type peers. And so I wouldn't there's not even a single group I would point out that I say we compete directly with. I think we're one of the best in class for VC and PE backed growth stage companies on the equipment side, or that's a non- There's just, there's not any, there's not any notable groups I'd mention there. Great, thank you. Film.

On the equipment financing angle.

Theres really not notable groups to mention there it's pretty.

This combined related just.

Smaller.

Smaller peers, not nonpublic type tiers and so.

There's not even a single group I would point out that I say, we compete directly with I think one of the best in class for VC and piggybacked growth stage companies on the equipment side.

Sorry, that's a non answer.

Theres not notable groups had a niche there.

Great. Thank you.

Okay.

Paul Johnson: We'll go next to Paul Johnson with KBW. Yeah, good afternoon, guys. Just one more on Rocket Labs. Just to make sure I heard correctly, it sounded like there was a pretty big pay down, 48 million or so post-quarter. I'm just curious, though, why the sudden repayment on the loan was that expected? And is there any sort of fee income associated with that? So yeah, I mean, subsequent to the funding, the company raised a significant amount of capital, over 300 million of new equity, and a convertible note, and subsequently paid us down a bit. What was the other part of that question?

We will go next to Paul Johnson with K B W.

Yeah. Good afternoon, guys, just one more on rocket labs.

Just to make sure I heard correctly it sounded like there was a pretty big pay down $48 million or so post quarter I'm just curious why why the sudden.

Repayment on the loan was that expected and is there any sort of fee income associated with that prepayment.

So yes, I mean subsequent to the funding the company raised a significant amount of capital over $300 million of new equity.

The convertible note.

And subsequently paid us down a bit.

What was the other part of that question and to be recognized a fee income right.

Kyle Steven Brown: Yeah, and did we recognize the fee income? Yeah, so this was, you know, a somewhat scripted fault in that, you know, there was a timing issue with the company's need to refinance their prior facility and the timing of the Trinity facility and the timing of their additional capital. So, you know, we satisfied that need as of year end, and they repaid us $40 million shortly after the first of the year, as we expected. Got it. Thanks. That makes sense. And then Chris asked a little bit, but I'll ask again, maybe in a different way.

Great Yeah. So this was.

Somewhat scripted fault in that's you know there was a timing issue of the companies need to refinance the Pryor facility.

And the timing of the Trinity facility and the timing of their additional capital so.

We satisfy that need as of year end.

And they repaid us $40 million.

Shortly after the first of the year as we expected.

Got it thanks for that makes sense.

And then.

Chris asked a little bit, but I'll I'll ask again, maybe in a different way but.

Paul Johnson: But 15 percent or so of the portfolio is in space technology. That may be a little bit lower post-quarter with that Rocket Labs paydown, but obviously that's a meaningful exposure within the portfolio. I'm just kind of maybe curious to get your thoughts on, I guess, the opportunity, you know, that you think that you see there. Sure.

But 15% or so of the portfolio is in space technology.

That may be a little bit lower post quarter with that rocket labs paydown, but.

Obviously, it's a meaningful exposure within the portfolio I'm, just kind of maybe curious to get your thoughts on I guess the opportunity that you think that you see there.

And that's all.

Sure.

Kyle Steven Brown: So the exposure itself, we could really break it down and show you how granular, even within that one industry, our exposure is. So we're financing equipment, right? So we're really focused on companies that are raising significant amounts of capital and equity capital. We track those equity investors, and we find mission-critical pieces of equipment. And that's typically, you know, these are non-specialized pieces of equipment.

So the exposure itself you could it could we could really break it down and show you how granular really even within that one industry. Our exposure is so we're financing equipment right. So we're really focused on companies that are raising significant amount of capital and equity capital. We trail those equity investors and we find some mission critical pieces of equipment.

And that's typically these are non specialized pieces of equipment.

Kyle Steven Brown: They have a use case outside of the company, outside of the industry. And we're financing that mission-critical equipment and providing an advance against it that's lower than the value of that equipment generally. So even within the space industry, there are going to be a lot of different pieces of off-the-shelf type equipment, manufacturing equipment, etc., and pretty diversified even there.

The use case outside of the company outside of the industry.

And we're financing that mission critical equipment, and providing an advance against it that's lower than the value of that equipment generally so.

Even within <unk>.

The space industry, that's going to be a lot of different pieces of off the shelf type equipment manufacturing equipment et cetera.

And pretty diversified even there and so the exposure to that one industry is really just because theres a significant.

Kyle Steven Brown: And so the exposure to that one industry is really just because there's a significant amount of equity flowing into that particular industry, that particular industry has significant CapEx needs and requirements, which we're able to go in and finance, doing that with infrastructure type companies as well. And so you'll probably continue to see that market expanding for us because there's a lot of equipment needs there as well. So we don't really think about it.

The amount of equity flowing to that particular industry that particular industry has significant capex needs and requirements, which we were able to go in and finance seeing that with infrastructure type companies as well until you'll probably continue to see that that market industry expanding for us because there's a lot of equipment needs there as well so we.

Don't really think about it.

We show it as the industry and exposure to that industry, but within it you were talking about a lot of different pieces of mission critical equipment to have real value, whether or not it was with the company or not.

Paul Johnson: We show it as the industry and exposure to that industry, but within it, you're talking about a lot of different pieces of mission critical equipment that have real value, whether or not it's with the company or not. Got it. Thanks for that. And last one for me.

Okay.

Got it thanks for that.

And last one from me.

Kyle Steven Brown: The core scientific shares, do you guys, are you guys subject to any kind of lockup or restriction period with those shares? This is Kyle again. We ended Q4 with 5.64 million shares. We are not subject to any hold.

The core scientific shares do you guys are you guys subject to any kind of lockup or restriction period with those shares.

This is kind of again, we ended Q4 with 564 million shares.

We are not subject to.

Any holes.

Kyle Steven Brown: and we're going to liquidate those shares in a timely manner that makes sense to maximize shareholder value. Got it. Thank you very much.

And.

We're going to liquidate those shares in a timely manner that makes sense to maximize shareholder value.

Got it. Thank you very much thanks for taking my questions.

Operator: Thanks for taking my question. You bet. As a reminder, ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. We'll go next to Bryce Rowe with Bea Riley.

You bet.

As a reminder, ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad.

We'll go next to Bryce Rowe with B Riley.

Bryce Wells Rowe: Thanks, good, I guess good afternoon from the East Coast. I wanted to maybe start on a comment you made, Kyle. You said, you know, you're putting larger, more mature companies in, or they're entering your investment pipeline. And I think we've seen, obviously, the space deal, the equipment finance deal, and then another deal here recently that was a little bit larger than what we might see from you all typically. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, that process of, you know, larger, more mature companies entering the pipeline and, you know, what it might mean, you know, from a growth perspective, both on the balance sheet and off the balance sheet? Yeah, so I think, you know, we really started to see last year, Q1, Q2, a pretty significant increase in the top of the funnel. In that same vein, we also really tightened up the bottom of the funnel.

Thanks, I guess good afternoon from the East coast.

Wanted to maybe start on a comment you may call, you said youre, putting larger more mature companies or theyre entering your your investment pipeline and I think we've seen.

Obviously, the space deal equipment Finance deal and then another deal here recently that was a little bit larger than what.

What we might see from you all typically can you talk a little bit about that process of larger more mature companies entering the pipeline.

What it might mean from a I guess from a growth perspective.

On balance sheet and off balance sheet.

So I think we really started to see last year Q1 Q2.

I'm pretty significant increase to top of funnel.

We also in that same vein, we also really tightened up the bottom of the funnel and the requirements for deals to get across the finish line for funding so percentage of deals that come into the top and then we fund has actually decreased across the board.

Kyle Steven Brown: The requirements for deals to get across the finish line for funding have actually decreased across the board. But what we've seen are more mature companies that are, and probably were, capable of getting all of their needs satisfied from a bank are now looking for alternative solutions, and we really are positioned well there with a permanent source of capital, the ability to make commitments, follow through on those commitments, and So we're just, we're positioned really well to provide capital to those companies. So top of the funnel, significantly increased quality of deals. Now certainly, there's some quality of deals that's less attractive that we're filtering out as well, but we are also seeing a lot of really mature companies further down the road. Average deal size increased 20% last year for us, so it reflects that.

But what we've seen are more mature companies that are and probably were.

Capable of getting all of their needs satisfied from a bank.

Are now looking for alternative solutions and we really are are positioned well there with permanent source of capital the ability to make commitments follow through on those commitments.

And.

So we're just we're positioned really well to provide capital to those companies.

So top of the funnel significantly increased quality of deals now certainly there's some quality of deals it's less attractive that we're we're filtering out as well, but we're also seeing a lot of really mature companies further down the road average deal size increased 20% last year for us. So it just it kind of reflects we also.

Kyle Steven Brown: We also saw significantly more first lien loans, and the majority of our portfolio is first lien, but we are seeing less second lien type opportunities, which just shows companies are looking for a different type of solution, an alternative solution to the banks. So we feel good about where we're positioned there. The pipeline is robust, and we're being proactive, and we're being opportunistic in what we fund. And I would add that, you know, we do remain committed to our portfolio granularity. It's something you hear us talk a lot about quarter after quarter, right?

So a significantly more first lien and the majority of our portfolio is first lien, but we're seeing less and less kind of second lien type opportunities, which just shows you. The companies are looking for a different type of solution and alternative type solution to the banks. So we feel good about where we're positioned there pipeline is robust and we're being.

For being proactive and we're being opportunistic on what we fund.

Yeah, and I would add that we do remain committed to our portfolio granularity. It's something you hear us talk a lot about.

On quarter, right and that we want to be very granular across industry and across financing size.

Gerald Harder: And, you know, that we want to be very granular across industry and across financing size, you know, among other things. And so, you know, that's why we felt it was important to clarify the position on Rocket Lab, right? To, you know, reassure our investors that we are committed to that level of granularity. Yeah, the off-balance sheet vehicles will continue to give us the ability to, yes, grow, and check size, of course. But, you know, a lot of that's just making sure we're the incumbent lender. When our companies do really well, we want to keep them. We don't want to lose them to somebody else who won't have the ability to fund them and keep funding them into the future and continue to help the companies grow. And so, you know, I think you'll see our off-balance sheet vehicles give us the ability to do that. And then also enter like this, enter into new transactions at a higher price point while not, you know, while not risking and putting too much under any one deal or trend. All right, that's helpful. And maybe, maybe a related question.

Among other things and so that's why we felt it was important to clarify the position on rocket lab right.

<unk>.

Reassure our investors that we are committed to that level of granularity.

The off balance sheet vehicles will continue to give us the ability to.

Yes grow check size of course, but you know a lot of that is just making sure. We're the incumbent lender what our companies do really well, we want to keep them I want to lose them to somebody else, who want the ability to fund them and keep funding them into the future.

We continue to <unk>.

Helping companies grow and so I think youll see our off balance sheet vehicles.

Give us the ability to do that and then also enter I'd like to take this enter into new transactions at a higher price point, while not while not risking and putting too much.

Capital into any one any one deal a trend.

Alright.

Helpful and maybe maybe a related question.

I would imagine with the.

Kyle Steven Brown: You know, I would imagine with the funding profile, record funding here in 23 sounds like your pipeline is really strong. There was some question about the kind of liquidity and how you think about your liquidity at this point, but maybe give us an idea of how you're thinking about funding it. I mean, obviously, you have the ATM that's up and running and available at a premium price to NAV, but I was just kind of curious how you think about the debt side of the equation, whether it be the secured facility expanding that or trying to get more active with the unsecured notes market. Yeah, I mean, listen. It's gonna be a combination of all those things, right?

The funding profile a record record fundings here in 'twenty three it sounds like your pipeline is really strong.

Yes, there was some question about kind of liquidity and yeah, Hi, how are you.

You think about your liquidity at this point, but maybe.

Can you give us an idea.

How youre, how youre thinking about funding it I mean, obviously you had the ATM.

That's up and running and available with with a premium price to NAV.

Just kind of curious how you think about it.

The debt side of the equation, whether it'd be the secured facility expanding that or I'm trying to get more active with the with the unsecured notes market. Thanks.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean listen it's going to be a combination of all those things right.

Kyle Steven Brown: On the debt side, we're making sure that we've got secured, secured financing; we're making sure it's tuned out. We are making sure that we raise equity most efficiently. We really have ample liquidity right now on and off balance sheets. As we've indicated, we are raising additional capital off balance sheets to even bolster that liquidity further. We're charging management fees and incentive fees on that capital, which will be 100% of that is owned by our shareholders, TRIN.

On the debt side, we're making sure that we've got unsecured secured financing or making sure it's turned out.

We are making sure that we raise equity most efficiently.

We have really ample liquidity right now on and off balance sheet. As we've indicated we are raising additional capital off balance sheet to even bolster that liquidity further.

We're charging management fees and incentive fees on that capital, which will 100% of that is owned by our shareholders from trend. So we have and we're creating as many options as possible to.

Kyle Steven Brown: So we have, and we're creating as many options as possible to give ourselves liquidity, to put ourselves in a position to be opportunistic and grow this platform in a way that's beneficial for our shareholders. We're really focused on that. That's great. That's all for me. Thanks, Bryce. We'll return now to Vilas Abraham with UBS.

To give ourselves liquidity to put ourselves in a position to be opportunistic and grow this platform in a way that's beneficial for our shareholders. We're really focused on that.

That's great. That's all for me thanks for your time.

Thanks Bryce.

Okay.

We'll return now to via loss Abraham with UBS.

Vilas T. Abraham: Hey, thanks for the follow-up. I'd just wanted to ask if there were any updates on timing, specifically on the RIA side of things that you're able to share. We can't give you timing on exactly how the capital is going to be rolled out, how much of it, and when. Our expectation and guidance has been that we'll start deploying in Q2. And that hasn't changed.

Hey, Thanks for the follow up I just wanted to ask if there were any updates.

On timing.

Typically on the RIAA side of thing that you are able to share.

We can't give you timing on exactly.

How the capital is going to be rolled out how much of it and when.

Our expectation and guidance has been that we will start deploying in Q2.

Yeah.

That hasnt changed.

Yeah.

Kyle Steven Brown: Okay, and then I just maybe one last kind of bigger picture question. You mentioned life sciences 14% of the book as of 1231. Just how are you thinking about that particular vertical, longer term, I guess the attractiveness of deploying there now and just longer term, the concentration that that could get to? And yeah, just any color there would be helpful.

Okay, and then just maybe one last kind of bigger picture question mentioned lifestyle is 14% of the of the book as of as of 12 31, just how are you thinking about that particular vertical.

Longer term I guess, the attractiveness of deploying there now and just longer term.

The concentration that that that could get to.

Yeah, just any color there would be helpful.

Kyle Steven Brown: That's great. We are really excited about our life science and healthcare business. We see incredible opportunities to grow there, and we're seeing significant equity dollars flow back into that industry. If you think about the bigger picture, what we're doing here, and I mentioned the different verticals, we really want to see these very complementary verticals continue to grow. From an asset management standpoint, we're really able to diversify our assets so that, you know, we're not, a bank goes out of business, or there's volatility in one sector, it's not going to have a massive impact on our overall business. And so we're really focused on diversifying into these different verticals and growing each of them, respectively. And so you'll continue seeing life science built.

That's great. We are really excited about our life science and health care business we.

We see credible opportunities to grow there seeing significant equity dollars flow back into that industry.

Do you think about big picture, what we're doing here and I mentioned the different verticals, we really want to see these really very complementary verticals continued to grow.

From an asset management standpoint, we're really able to diversify our assets so that we're not.

Bank goes out of business or Theres volatility in one sector its not going to have a massive impact on our overall business and so we're really focused on diversifying into these different verticals and growing each of them, respectively, and so youll continue seeing life science build you'll see some of that exposure or overall percentage probably grow.

Kyle Steven Brown: You'll see some of that exposure or overall percentage probably grow as we build that business, and you'll see further diversification across the platform into these complementary verticals. Okay, thank you. Yeah. We'll go next to Casey Alexander with Compass Point. Hi, good afternoon.

As we build that business and you'll see further diversification across the platform into these complementary verticals.

Okay. Thank you.

Yes.

Well go next to Casey Alexander with Compass point.

Yeah.

Hi, good afternoon.

Casey Jay Alexander: You mentioned that second lien is a shrinking part of your portfolio, but still 23% of your portfolio, if I read the release right, which is still one of the higher amounts in the venture debt space. So I'm curious how that splits between secured lending and equipment finance. And sort of what's the typical kind of structure that has you, you know, end up in a second lien position and makes you feel comfortable? Yeah, Jerry and I will just ping pong on this one a little bit. So Casey, the way we think about second lane deals, these are gonna be some of our stronger transactions. But none of those are equipment financing.

The second lien is a shrinking part of your portfolio, but it's still 23% of your portfolio. If I read the release rate, which is still one of the higher <unk>.

Mounts in the venture debt space. So I'm curious how that splits between secured lending and equipment finance and sort of what's the typical kind of structure that has you.

And up in a second lien position.

Makes you feel comfortable there.

Yes, Jeremy and I will just Ping pong on this one.

So Casey the way, we think about second lien deals. These are going to be some of our stronger transactions. None of those are equipment financings those are all secured loans.

Kyle Steven Brown: Those are all secured loans, term loans. They're in the tech lending vertical. And, you know, typically, that's us just partnering with the bank. They may be providing receivable financing, and the overall cost of capital is lower. It provides more runway for the company.

Term loans there on the tech lending vertical and typically that's that's just partnering with a bank there they may be providing receivable financing and the overall cost of capital is lower.

It provides more runway for the company.

Gerald Harder: And we typically go into those because they're just very strong deals where a bank is willing and able to put some of the capital in. And so we generally go into those deals with the mindset that we're willing to do the whole thing. And if it comes down to it, you can pay off the bank. That's how we look at it.

And we're typically going into those because they're just very strong deals where our bank is willing enabled some of the capital and so.

We generally go into those deals with the mindset that we're willing to do the whole thing.

And if it came down to it we can pay down pay off the bank. That's just that's how we look at it.

Gerald Harder: But having a bank in there, partnering with the bank, and providing a lower cost of capital is just overall better for the company. And so it's a way that we partner and do business with the banks. And it's also a way to benefit the company by extending the runway further. Do you have the right to buy the bank out of their position?

But having a banking, they're partnering with a bank and providing a lower cost of capital is just overall better for the company and so it's a way that we partner and do business with the banks and it's also a way to benefit the company by extending the runway further.

Do you have the right to buy the bank out of their position.

Yeah.

Casey Jay Alexander: Generally, we do, you know, and I would say, you know, working relationships with the bank are such that, even if that was not explicitly in the docs, I would expect that to be, you know, an option that they would gladly take up. But typically, that is included in our documents. Okay, thank you. That's my only question. You bet. Thank you. And that will conclude today's question and answer session. At this time, I'd like to turn the call back over to Kyle Brown, Chief Executive Officer, for any closing or additional remarks. Thanks, Jamie. We're proud of our 2023 results and feel like we've laid the groundwork over the last 18 months to scale this business in a unique and profitable way for investors. Lastly, our management team will be in New York and Boston later this month, and we look forward to meeting with any investors and key stakeholders.

Generally we do.

And I would say our.

Our working relationships with the bank is such that.

Even if that was not explicitly in the docs I would expect that to be.

An option that they would that we'd gladly take up but typically.

That is included in our docks.

Okay. Thank you that's my only question.

You bet. Thanks Casey.

Yeah.

And that will conclude today's question and answer session. At this time I'd like to turn the call back over to Kyle Brown, Chief Executive officer for any closing or additional remarks.

And that will conclude today's question and answer session. At this time I'd like to turn the call back over to Kyle Brown, Chief Executive officer for any closing or additional remarks.

Thanks, Jamie we're proud of our 2023 results and feel like we've laid the groundwork over the last 18 months.

The scale of this business in a unique and.

<unk> way for investors.

Lastly, our management team will be in New York and Boston later, this month and we look forward to meeting with investors and key stakeholders. Please don't hesitate to reach out to been to schedule a meeting.

Kyle Steven Brown: Please don't hesitate to reach out to Ben to schedule a meeting. We'd like to thank everybody for joining and participating in our call today. We appreciate your interest and investment in Trinity Capital. Have a great rest of your day. Once again, ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude today's program. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect at this time. Yardley Sp rings a bell, and If you Kane MIC Drops the Seven's Music, leave a comment so I can see you. What's up, YouTube? Don't miss it! Savannah Street Properties. Thanks for watching.

We'd like to thank everybody for joining and participating in our call. Today. We appreciate your interest and investment in training to capital have a great rest of your day.

Once again, ladies and gentlemen that does conclude today's program. Thank you for your participation you may disconnect at this time.

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