Q4 2023 PaySign Inc Earnings Call
Ladies and gentlemen, please standby our Cogs was getting started momentarily once again please standby.
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[music].
Good afternoon, My name is Kevin and I'll be your conference operator today at this time I'd like to welcome everyone to the Pes hunting fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings conference call.
After the Speakers' remarks, there will be a question answer session. You may be places a question in queue at any time by pressing star one on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.
Comments on today's call regarding page signs of financial results will be on a GAAP basis, unless otherwise noted.
<unk> earnings release was disseminated to the SEC earlier today and can be found on the Investor Relations section of our website pay signed dot com, which includes reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to GAAP reported amounts. Additionally, as set forth in more detail in our earnings release.
I'd like to remind everyone that today's call will include forward looking statements regarding piece on future performance actual performance could differ materially from these forward looking statements information about the factors that could affect future performance is summarized at the end of pay signs earnings release and in our recent SEC filings and lastly, a replay of this call will be available.
Until June 'twenty six 'twenty 'twenty four please he pays on its fourth quarter and full year earnings call announcements for details on how to access the replay.
Now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Mark Newcomer CEO. Please go ahead.
Thank you, Kevin and good afternoon, everyone and thank you for joining our earnings call today, we're thrilled to discuss based on its performance for the fourth quarter and the full year 2023.
I'm, Mark newcomer President and Chief Executive Officer, joining me today is Jeff Baker, our Chief Financial Officer. Additionally, Matt Turner, our president of patient affordability and Matt Lanford are cheap payments officer will also be joining us for the Q&A session earlier today, we announced our 2023 fourth quarter and full year.
Our financial results. We are extremely pleased with our performance as we continued to grow revenue net income and adjusted EBITDA, Our fourth quarter revenue grew to $13 7 million, a robust 29% increase year over year.
For the full year, we saw 24% revenue growth to $47 3 million.
Most notably our net income increased by 528% to $6 5 million or 12 cents per fully diluted share from $1 million or two cents per fully diluted share the prior year.
Full year adjusted EBIT also saw an increase of 21% from $5 5 million in 2022 to $6 7 million in 2023, our plasma donor compensation business continued its strong performance contributing 42 million in 2023 versus $34 7 million in 2022 up.
21% from 2022.
The fourth quarter alone showed a 14% increase in the average revenue per center from $7293 in Q4 2022 to $8297 in Q4 of 2023, and we expect this ongoing expansion of the revenue per center to continue in.
In 2023, we expanded our reach to 464 centers. We on boarded 38 centers in last 18 centers 14 of the 18 loss centers, where closures and the remaining four where sales to non client plasma collection companies. Following an extended period of rapid growth in new centers in 2023, our plasma climb.
To begin to shift their focus from new center openings to increasing plasma yield per center concentrating on donor acquisition and retention.
As a result, we are expecting 15% to 25 new centers in 2024.
The patient affordability segment has emerged as a significant growth engine for the company as we launch programs for some of the world's largest pharmaceutical manufacturers.
In 2023, we launched 24 net new programs and ended the year with 43 active programs, marking 126% increase over the prior year. This segment saw a 122% rise in claims volume for 2023 with even higher expectations for 2020 for fourth quarter claims.
<unk> increased 215% from the same period the previous year.
Our sales cycle remained in the 90 to 120 day range a marked improvement from prior years and our pipeline remains extremely robust patient affordability revenue increased 172% year over year, we expect patient affordability revenue to continue to grow at triple digit rates in 2024, I would like to add.
Some additional context regarding our claim volumes as it is a key performance indicator for our patient affordability business.
In simple terms, we received medical and pharmacy claims medical claims are typically submitted by a doctor's office practice or hospital and can be for physician administered or infused drugs.
Pharmacy claims are dispensed by a pharmacy and include retail claims, which are claims that originate from retail brick and mortar corner drug stores and specialty claims which are being filled by mail order pharmacies that worked with high cost drugs such as biologics.
A well rounded portfolio is key to addressing long term growth as drugs gain approval or lose exclusivity.
To build a well diversified revenue model, we pursue programs in all three categories in 'twenty 'twenty four we expect to see an increase in retail claims helping us diversify the balance of our mix of claims during the fourth quarter. We on boarded a total of nine net new patient affordability programs of note we successfully transitioned the encore.
<unk> portfolio of a major pharmaceutical manufacturer consisting of four programs.
These are mature programs that deliberate claims immediately upon onboarding. We also launched two additional programs for this client and they have already awarded US three more programs in 2024.
It should be noted that transition programs, which is an existing program serviced by another vendor outnumbers art program launch of new to market drugs. It is very important to call out that transition programs are far more difficult to win transitioning our patient affordability program requires a detailed and comprehensive approach with zero margin.
For air as a seamless transition is of the utmost importance to the program sponsor and the patients that rely on a well run program. We are pleased that we have been able to provide solutions, where the value offered is so compelling that our clients are willing to change mid program I want to take a moment to talk about the recent disruptions to the patient.
Portability sector on.
On February 21st there was an unprecedented cyber attack on the U S health system, and the change health care claims and payment infrastructure.
This had a substantial impact to consumers providers and many of our competitors, leaving their pharmaceutical manufacturer clients scrambling for a solution to the prolonged outage as a result of the fallout we were able to secure and launch eight new programs from two manufacturers in less than 10 days, adding substantial revenue and approximately.
<unk> 1 million additional claims to our 'twenty 'twenty four claims volume we are confident that this will lead to additional programs in 'twenty 'twenty four from these and other manufacturers as we continue to assist our current partners and build new request.
Much like our payment platform, our patient affordability platform has been purpose built for high availability and utilizes multiple redundant network connections to assure continuity. These multiple processor connections enabled us to quickly move to other processors not impacted by this event to catapult pay signs innovative fintech solutions to the forefront of patient afford.
Ability in the health care ecosystem, we made a number of executive changes, which we believe both sharpen our focus on the accelerating growth of our patient affordability segment and better enable us to enter new markets.
This year, Matt Turner assumed leadership of the patient affordability segment being promoted to president of patient affordability, we appointed Cosmos can be to the position of Chief operating officer, leveraging his 12 years of experience in both the patient affordability in Fintech space. Most recently as director of data Science, and Vice President of operations.
Here at pace on.
Mr can be succeeds, Matt Lanford, who transitioned to the newly formed position of Chief payments Officer, where he will rely on his 35 years experience in payments to lead our new product and project management office.
Mr. Lanfear, it's fintech expertise leadership and guidance will be instrumental in the development of new products and the opening of new markets. In summary, we are pleased with our 2023 results as we reported another year of strong growth, we were especially pleased with the trajectory of our patient affordability segment as we continued to execute on our <unk>.
To bring innovative fintech solutions to the forefront of the patient affordability in health care ecosystem. We believe we have assembled an excellent team coupled with what we believe to be a truly disruptive product portfolio that continues to gain acceptance in the industry.
Our plasma segment continues to grow at a steady pace and we believe this will continue for the foreseeable future.
We will continue to invest in our people and systems to meet the rapidly growing demand for our services and I believe we are well positioned to capitalize on the many opportunities that lie ahead of us.
Jeff over to you for more insight into our financials for the quarter and year end.
Thank you Mark good afternoon, everyone as Mark said, we closed 2023 with a solid fourth quarter capping off what was a nice 2023.
Ever since exiting from Covid getting our plasma business back to pre Covid results was the focus of the investment thesis and that has materialized as expected. We also had been telling investors that we were committed to investing in other attractive vertical markets such as our fast growing pharma patient affordability business.
To help diversify the financial concentration we had with our plasma business today I can tell you that that thesis has also materialized as expected.
Our plasma business was 84% of total revenue in the fourth quarter of 2023 versus 91% compared to the same period last year, and we expect that business mix shift to continue in 'twenty 'twenty four.
Looking more closely at our plasma business, we experienced strong growth in gross dollars loaded of cards total number of loads gross spend volume and the average revenue per plasma center for the fourth quarter gross dollars loaded to cards increased 9%.
Total number of loads increased 14%.
Gross spend volume increased 8% and the average revenue per plasma center increased 14% $8297.
Fourth quarter plasma revenues increased 19% to $11.5 million and we added two net new plasma centers during the quarter exiting the year with 464 plasma centers. This equates to a 39% U S market share at year end.
As Mark mentioned, we have seen a strategic shifts bar plasma partners from opening new centers to increasing the plasma yield per center as financing rates remained elevated compared to the previous 10 years.
The guidance for 'twenty 'twenty four then I will provide in just a moment reflects this strategic shift move.
Moving to our pharma patient affordability business here.
You heard Mark talk about the traction we experienced in 2023 which has continued into 'twenty 'twenty four.
Fourth quarter pharma patient affordability revenues of $1.7 million were 12% of total revenue versus 5%. During the same period last year, we launched nine net new programs in the fourth quarter exiting the year with 43 pharma patient affordability programs and have already long.
An additional 10 new programs in the first quarter of 2024.
With a hyper growth we have experienced in our pharma patient affordability business. We expect it will continue to make up a greater percentage of total revenue in 2024.
As in previous calls with all of the details we provided in the press release and it will be available in our 10-K filing tomorrow morning, I will simply hit the financial highlights for the fourth quarter of 2023 versus the same period last year.
Fourth quarter 2023, total revenues of $13 $7 million increased $3 $1 million or 28, 9%.
Gross profit margin for the quarter was 52, 2% versus 51.9% during the same period last year, which marks the first quarter in which we have seen gross profit margin expansion since exiting our pharma prepaid business in 2022.
SG&A for the quarter increased 23, 2% to $4 $6 million with total operating expenses, increasing 25, 3% to $6 $5 million. We have made significant investments in I T and employees over the past year to support this continued growth of our business.
Exiting this year with 123 employees versus 110 during the same period last year.
For the quarter, we posted a net income of $5 $6 million or 10 cents per fully diluted share versus $713000 or one cent per fully diluted share for the same period last year.
We recorded a tax benefit of $4 $3 million during the quarter as we released the valuation allowance on our deferred tax assets related to both federal and state taxes without this benefit net income would have been $1.4 million or three cents per fully diluted share an increase of over 19.
Percent versus the prior year period.
The fourth quarter, adjusted EBITDA, which is a non-GAAP measure that adds back stock compensation to EBITDA was $2.5 million or five cents per diluted share versus $1.7 million or three cents per diluted share for the same period last year. This equates to a 43% year over year growth in our adjusted EBIT.
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The fully diluted share count for both quarters used in calculating the per share amounts was $53 8 million in both periods.
Regarding the health of our company, we exited the year was $17 million in unrestricted cash and zero debt.
$7.3 million increase over year end 2022 we did not complete any share repurchases during the fourth quarter, but we did use $1.1 million to repurchase almost 395000 shares during the year.
Now turning your attention to our initial guidance for 'twenty 'twenty four.
We expect total revenues to be in the range of $54 $5 million to $56 $7 million, reflecting year over year growth of 15% to 20% with plasma making up between 80 and 85% of total revenue.
Pharma revenue is expected to grow at least 100% year over year as we receive a full year benefit for all pharma patient affordability programs added in 2023 and continue to add new farm of patient affordability programs throughout 'twenty 'twenty four.
Full year gross profit margins are expected to be between 52, and 54% reflecting increased revenue contribution from our pharma patient affordability business and stable plasma gross margins operating expenses are expected to be between 29 and $31 million as we.
We continue to make investments in people and technology.
All of this amount depreciation and amortization are expected to be between 6 million and six and a half million dollars. While stock based compensation is expected to be between $2 7 million and $3 million.
Given our large unrestricted and restricted cash balances in the current interest rate environment, we expect to generate interest income of $2.6 million to $2 $9 million.
Taking all of the factors above into consideration, we expect net income to be in the range of 2 million to $3 million or four cents to six cents per diluted share.
And adjusted EBITDA to be in the range of 8 million to $9 million or 15 cents to 17 cents per diluted share.
For the first quarter of 'twenty 'twenty four we expect total revenue to be in the range of $12 million to $13 million, reflecting the seasonal impact of tax refunds on our plasma business offset with a strong start to the year with our patient affordability business.
Gross profit margins are projected to be between 52% and 53% driven largely by an increase revenue contribution from our pharma patient affordability business.
Operating expenses are expected to be between $7 million to $7 $5 million of which depreciation and amortization will be approximately $1.3 million.
This reflects investments largely required to support our pharma patient affordability growth adjusted.
Adjusted EBITDA is expected to be in the range of $1.2 million and $1.5 million.
With that I would like to turn the call back over to Kevin for question and answers.
Thank you well now be conducting a question and answer session.
It can be placed in the question queue. Please press star one on your telephone keypad.
Confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You May press star two if you'd like to remove your question from the queue for participants using speaker equipment may be necessary to pick up a handset before pressing star one one moment. Please while we poll for questions. Our first question is coming from Peter Heckmann from D. A Davidson your line is now.
A lot.
Yeah.
Good afternoon, gentlemen, great results and good to see the strong guidance for 2024.
I wanted to get into patient affordability, a little bit more in <unk>.
And maybe there isn't an average program, but could you talk a little bit about kind of how you would explain to at Investor day.
The Ranger side with a program that the average term how long they last.
He made that competitive takeaways versus new programs.
And some of the competitive advantages that are that allowed you to do that.
Pete: Hey, Pete Uh Huh.
It's a long winded question. So let me try to answer all your points.
Speaker Change: Number one the size of the programs can vary all over the board we have.
Some programs not many but we have some programs who have a co pay program in place just as an insurance policy and we may not do any claims with them and we just received monthly management fees are we have some programs that are generating quite a bit.
The extensive number of claims.
That we get paid every every every month on top of management claims.
So there is no average unfortunately I wish it was that easy.
<unk>.
Yeah, Yeah yeah.
I can give some more color here too if you like me to.
Yeah go ahead, yeah. So.
And I think we've talked about this kind of on previous calls.
Going back into last year, there isn't a you know as you look at kind of the plasma business. You know one of the metrics. We talk about is how much of plasma center. It's worth you know kind of on average Unfortunately with affordability programs right. It's just like drugs, you'll have a drug that's a rare orphan drug and you may have 50 people in the country that have that disease state and need that drug and then you could end up with something.
Like you know a blockbuster drug right like in Enbrel and Humira right. Those can do you know tens to hundreds of thousands of claims a month. So there's not really an example of hey, here's what an average program looks like.
I think the the you know.
When we when we look at the business, we do evaluate kind of what's the long term profitability of our program versus you know with one that is more transactional based versus one that's more a kind of admin fees base because that does that kind of help there.
Yes that does.
Yeah.
Our refreshment in second half of the question there and then just trying to talk them through the term I I remember some of the older programs that were one or two years can you talk about how you expect these terms are to average and if we think about you know some programs rolling off and having to be replaced with others.
Yeah, So I'll take that.
Okay.
Pat let me get that so so the Pete most of these contracts are.
Typically a stub period, if they come in during the year and then well have a full year after that with evergreen.
Terms as you know for years beyond that.
Our.
Honestly say, we have not lost a program to competition.
Yet knock on wood, the only program and it's I think it's one is that we had a provider that decided that they were no I forgot to offer co pay program because our drug went generic but those are those are far slim and far between so.
You know, it's like anything else. If you do a good job for your partners, they're going to stay with you and and if a few don't then they won't be here in <unk>.
We earn their business every day and every.
Every year and hopefully we will continue those relationships for a long time.
Got it got it and then a follow up I'll get back in the queue, but you know I was I I did take note of that change health care, a security breach and some of the ramifications.
Can you talk a little bit more about how how you work around that whether that was partners or or pay fines proprietary network.
Yeah, Yeah, Matt you want to take that.
Yeah. So we were in a really good position Ah kind of going out the door. There are to our knowledge. We are the only vendor in the space that had three processor connections. So you know we had a very diverse network that we could leverage to stand up programs for <unk> for new clients.
To be able to get them onboard very quickly. We've also worked really hard to kind of.
Get to set up against that a quick do you just want to go to move the business over so yeah. The the disruption for US was minimal are on our side. We did have a few programs over on the chain side that were very small we had all of those programs transitioned over fairly quickly and then we immediately started working on kind of the new business.
Wins that came in so the disruption was there, but you know again for us very minimal.
Alright, that's helpful. Thank you.
Thank you next question is coming from Gary Press, the Pinot from Barrington Research. Your line is now live.
Hi, Good afternoon could you on this patient affordability business, because I'm still kind of fuzzy on it.
Could you give an example.
How this works I mean does this start in the actual doctor's office, where they put a prescription in and they give us some kind of voucher and then you're processing pharmacy could you just maybe just very simply walk us through what you're doing.
Yeah. So.
It it does kind of initiate at the at the Doctor's office at the time a prescription is written.
There's a little bit of kind of variance there as to whether it's a specialty drug or retail drug right. So again going back to Mark's comment the specialty drug is like a sky raise the enbrel and Humira still are a very expensive drug ship on mail order that often happens like at the Doctor's office. They say Hey, you know we need to put you on this drug because you have you know rheumatoid arthritis or whatever else.
And Hey, there is a co pay coupon that's going to help buy down your insurance of mail <unk> retail drugs not always the same thing right you may be written a prescription for retail drug instead.
Speaker Change: The example, I give people as you know your Kid gets written vyvanse, because they have a D D ADHD.
Don't know, there's a coupon out there, but the pharmacist does so when you're taking a prescription into the pharmacy or it comes in through sure scripts. They immediately go and poll the coupon down.
Okay, and so it offsets your insurance co payments.
And you had a $2000 deductible right. This you know depending on the program. It may pay all $2000 or it may pay a portion of it but the ultimate goal of co pay assistance programs is to remove the financial barriers associated with patients accessing and remaining on therapy. That's the number one thing we saw for his financial barrier.
For patients to gain and stay on expensive drugs.
Okay.
Speaker Change: So.
Years ago, and I'm quoting this because my wife used to sell for Merck the doctors they would leave.
Let's say a typical prescription drugs they would leave.
Samples at a doctor's office.
Is this kind of taking the place of that in a sense of that now the pharmaceuticals have a better way to track, where these prescription drugs be it specialty or just normal prescription drugs are going.
So, yes, and no the Genesis of where all this started was on the sample side and interestingly enough. If you go back and pay style. Its history back to the three P days. There as you know are running off of a very large sample program for a schedule two ADHD drug.
And it was because it was pretty dangerous to have a sales rep driving around with a carton full of scheduled two drugs in the back of their tourists.
Speaker Change: Popping up to a doctor's office.
So they came out with parts to utilize the pharmacy network to essentially be able to get these scheduled two drugs in the hands of.
Speaker Change: The people who need it.
Then you know everybody kind of started to figure out Oh, well, hey, we can start buying down the cost in other areas and then the affordable Care Act gets passed and now everybody not everybody, but a good chunk of Americans now have health insurance and they have copays and deductibles and out of pocket Maximums and so they started utilizing coupons to offset that.
There there are some specific examples where samples have been replaced.
Speaker Change: But it is not the most common type of co pay program right I would say, it's probably less than 10% to 15% of all the available copay programs out there.
Our or what we call voucher products, which would be like a sample our first fill type product.
And it's mainly because of the expense right. If you leave a sample in a doctor's office you're out in the cost of producing the pills and the packaging and driving it over there, which you know maybe 10 bucks for.
A pill or a capsule or something along those lines.
If you if that drug it's $800, then you're going to have to pay the pharmacy $800 for that product.
So you know there's a there's a cost differentiator there. So that's why what we would call vouchers, which is what you're referring to in the sample scenario is the much smaller portion of the market, but we do run a several.
Voucher programs that are designed to replace samples and first.
Okay. If you look at the market.
Can you size the market for us.
Speaker Change: In terms of that.
Potential revenue.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Yeah, So I'm going to let Jeff answer that one you know, but I can I can say that we've kind of discussed this in the past and I think my initial commentary before getting Jeff to Jeff and Mark to weigh in here would be that every new to market drug almost every new to market why don't I say every but almost every new to market drug is going to have some kind of a patient affordability.
Program. So if the FDA approves 100 dogs in 2024 pretty good chance, that's 100, new programs coming to market.
And that grows every year.
And as far as the size I mean, I don't know that we can put a number on it but I'll, let Jeff and Mark jump in here and see if they have a <unk>.
<unk> answer for you.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Hey, Gary we.
You know, we don't really know how big the market is we do know it's bigger than the plasma market. The Tam there, it's kind of complicated because the competitors that we're winning business from offer other services that we don't and we're focused on the payment and claims processing side of it where they may.
<unk> be doing other services like getting a drug to market, our marketing that drug or whatever so.
We well we do know is that it is bigger than the plasma a tam which is around $120 million.
Hard to guess right now what the patient affordability just on that on the payments of claims side as a stand alone basis.
Okay. Thanks.
Thank you as a reminder, that star one to be placed in the question queue.
Speaker Change: Our next question is coming from Jon Hickman from Alberta Thalmann. Your line is now live.
Yeah.
Jon Robert Hickman: Hi, I could nice quarter guys.
Goodyear.
I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit about the competition in the plasma side, if anything changed there.
With the refocus from you now.
Guys, who run the centers.
No I.
Don't believe so I mean really what we have going on in that space as we and we've seen this over the course of the year.
As you know we've seen the cost of money increase we've seen people take more of an approach to bring efficiencies to the way their centers are operating and try to derive more plasma in that manner.
Rather than just going out and the like you know past days past years, where they would a lot. There was a lot of New center building I think we've seen we've seen.
Our focus towards moving away from that and trying to improve the efficiencies of their existing centers.
And that's kind of what I think is going on there.
And I'm done.
Jon Robert Hickman: John I'd add to that also I mean, I'm not mentioning any names. These are public companies you can go.
John: Research, but one one company recently hired a CEO a new CEO within the past year with the with that.
The plan to reduce cost and improve yields there is another public company out there who's installing new technology to improve yield by 20% per donation so that seems to be on the minds of the.
Plasma companies today as far as.
Competition, Ed really hasn't hasn't changed Theres, a handful of people that are out there. It's the same people are we've seen one bank leave we saw a new bank come in they've been in and out of it before there's you know us and use.
Usual suspects, we talked about in the past but.
No real change from a competitive perspective.
Okay.
Thank you.
John: Yeah.
Thank you. Your next question is a follow up from Gary Precipice from Barrington Research. Your line is now live.
Yeah, Mark you mentioned and I couldn't write it down quick enough what was the growth in claims process and the amount of claims year over year, and then and that would be for the full year and then for Q4 to Q4.
Yeah for Q4, it was a 215%.
Quarter over quarter growth and <unk> for 2023, we saw.
Youre talking about I'm I'm, sorry, John Let me just clarify you're talking claims right.
Right, sorry duration affordability business right that that's where you would have a claim so what I'm trying to get at what was the growth what was the the raw the raw number that you your process for the whole year.
But I don't believe we gave you the wrong number for the entire year, we gave 122% rise in claim volume for 2023, and we gave a 215% claim volume rise from fourth quarter of 'twenty two to fourth quarter of 'twenty three.
Okay.
That's good enough growth I guess the question I would have here is.
You know you're showing some really good growth here.
You, obviously have competitors in the market.
Why are you winning.
John: I believe.
And I'll, let Matt address some of this but you know from my perspective, we're winning because we've put up some disruptive products. We've gone up it's much like our foray into the plasma market. When we got involved there the market was a bit stagnant there wasn't a whole lot of people doing anything.
<unk> innovative in that space and what we did is we came in with a fresh look and tried to make some changes some new offers and those were received very well I believe that we're having the exact same acceptance of our products here and in this space and I believe that.
You know, we're going to continue to see this into the future.
There's a lot of excitement from a lot of the players.
And I think really it's become you know some of the some of the existing <unk>.
Providers, just theyre not taking care of their clients and I think that's always leaves an opening.
Yeah.
That's a lot to add.
Oh I'm sorry go ahead.
Yeah. So I just kind of want to add in something here that I think it's pretty important you know a lot of the other players in the space have attempted to diversify their offerings.
To the point that they have watered down everything.
You know we were at a conference last week, and we had a client tell US well you know ask insert name of this competitor to come up in pitch at the same time as we were thinking about bringing you on and we had a very specific need and you guys came in and you spend an hour talking about the very specific need and you've established you were experts in that they came in and spent seven minutes talking about the knee.
And then try to tell us about all the other stuff they loved themselves.
If you kind of look at the marketing campaign that we're in now you'll noticed like the theme is the return of expertise in the market that we're in it has all but left every everybody is trying to go out and buy another company to get it up to make themselves look a little better or have a stronger offering and things like that and look big box store suburb.
John: Serve a purpose.
But you know we're selling to a niche market that has incredibly specific deliverables.
And the balance of these brands, sometimes hangs in the affordability program. We saw when the change healthcare stuff happened. We had you know clients that have come on board now that said, we immediately saw a 20% Lawson rep overnight and it was because there with a big box provider that wants to sell them all sorts of other things but.
No expertise that when something happens they can move quickly to address there. There are there issues and then mark talked about the disruptive offerings, where we brought on some some technological stuff that we're doing at our processors to identify accumulators and maximizes and to save our clients tens of millions of dollars.
That the other vendors in this space, we're unable to do so we again took a fresh look dove into something because this is this is our sole focus for us and expertise for us and it has certainly led to us getting in the door with some manufacturers that probably would not have looked at us in the past because of our size and now where we've been able to them.
[noise] constraint results over the last two quarters and now they're starting to move more business our way.
So yeah I think I think also we'd like to ask Hey, Matt Let's talk also a little bit. It will just go ahead and address the fact that you know we brought pricing transparency, which is a huge you know a huge event to this there's a space in previous to us doing that there was not a whole lot of pricing transparency as a matter of fact there.
John: It was a lot of people just been misled them. So I think that it's kind of a kin to black box interchange type and Jeff you mentioned this earlier about the black box I believe that this is opened it up a bit for us to to take some new business in.
Yeah.
Okay I mean, that's.
The one thing I was going to ask is is there a technological moat here you've kind of maybe.
Said, yes, with what Youre developing but then you also just talked about identifying accumulators and maximizes. Our these middleman that are in the system that are making the prices go higher I mean this is the first time I've heard of this so if you don't mind me ask well what is that that's a that's a very.
So it's.
So tough.
I don't think we have the time to get into that on this call, but it's certainly something we can we can get on a call and discuss it's it is very complex and you know most of what we've done is based or around technologies, we've developed and algorithms. We've developed in house and I'll kind of leave it at that okay. So there is some technological.
Oh, there's a technological moat there.
Yeah absolutely.
Okay. Thank you.
Youre welcome.
Thank you we reached end of our question and answer session I would like to turn the floor back over to Mark for any for further a closer comments.
Thanks, Kevin I'd like to thank everybody for joining us today, a special thanks goes out to all of our employees and our board for the hard work and support that they've exhibited throughout the year.
Mark: I believe that 2024 will be a very exciting year for pace on and we're looking forward to updating everyone on the next call. Thank you all very much and have a great day.
Thank you that does conclude today's teleconference and webcast you may disconnect. Your line at this time and have a wonderful day, we thank you for your participation today.