Q4 2023 Harvard Bioscience Inc Earnings Call
Operator: Logo Microsoft Word 97-2003 Document MSWordDoc Word. Document.8 Good morning, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Harvard Bioscience Inc.'s fourth quarter 2023 earnings conference call. At this time, I'll be dispensed in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star 1 1 on your telephone. You will then hear an automatic message advising you that your hand is raised.
Yeah.
Good morning, and thank you for standing by welcome to Harvard Bioscience, Inc. Fourth quarter 2023 earnings Conference call.
At this time, all participants on a listen only mode.
After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. Just a question. During the session you will need to press star one on your telephone you boil down in automatic message advising I'll hand this race.
Operator: Please note that today's conference is being recorded. I will now hand the conference over to your speaker host, Dave Sirois, director of SCC reporting. Please go ahead, sir.
Note that today's conference is being recorded.
Now I'll hand, the conference over to speak of host Davidson mileage director of S. D. C. Reportings. Please go ahead Sir.
David Sirois: Thank you, Olivia, and good morning everyone. Thank you for joining the Harvard Bioscience fourth quarter 2023 earnings conference call. Before we begin, I would like to suggest that you take a moment and download a copy of the presentation that will be referred to during this call. The file is entitled Q4 2023 HBIO Quarterly Earnings Presentation and is located in the Investor Overview Events and Presentations section of our website. Also, leaving the call today will be Jim Green, Chairman of the Board, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Jennifer Cote, Chief Financial Officer.
Thank you Olivia and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining the Harvard Bioscience fourth quarter 2023 earnings Conference call.
Before we begin I would like to suggest that you take a moment and download a copy of a presentation that will be referred to during this call are.
The file is entitled Q4, 2023, each by a quarterly earnings presentation and is located in the investor overview events and presentations section of our website.
Leading the call today will be Jim Green Chairman of the Board, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Jennifer Cody Chief Financial Officer.
David Sirois: Before I turn the call over to Jim, I will read our safe harbor statement. In our discussion today, we may make statements that are forward-looking. Our actual results and performance may differ materially from what we have projected due to risks and uncertainties, including those described in our annual report on Form 10-K for the period ended December 31st, 2022, our subsequent quarterly reports on Form 10-Q, and our other public filings. Any forward-looking statements, including those related to the company's future results and activities, represent our estimates as of today and should not be relied upon as representing our estimates as of any subscription. So much of today's call will focus on our non-GAAP quarterly results, which we believe better represents the ongoing economics of the business, reflects how we set and measure our incentive compensation plans, and how we manage the business internally.
Sure I turn the call over to Jim I will read our safe Harbor statement.
In our discussion today, we may make statements that constitute forward looking statements. Our actual results and performance may differ materially from what we have projected due to risks and uncertainties.
Including those described in our annual report on Form 10-K for the period ended December 31 2022.
Our subsequent quarterly quarterly reports on Form 10-Q, and our other public filings.
Any forward looking statements, including those related to the company's future results and activities represent our estimates as of today and should not be relied upon as representing our estimates as of any subsequent day.
Also much of today's call will focus on our non-GAAP quarterly results, which we believe better represents the ongoing economics of the business reflects how we set and measure our incentive compensation plans and how we manage the business internally the.
David Sirois: The differences between our GAAP and non-GAAP results are outlined in the earnings release and today's presentation. These two documents, as well as a replay of this call, can be found on our website under Investor Overview in Vincent's presentation. Additionally, any material, financial, or other statistical information presented on the call, which is not included in our press release and presentation, will be archived and available in the Investor Relations section of our website. I will now turn the call over to Jim. Jim, please go ahead.
The differences between our GAAP and non-GAAP results are outlined in the earnings release and today's presentation. These two documents as well as a replay of this call can be found on our website under investor overview events and presentations.
Additionally, any material financial or other statistical information presented on the call, which is not included in our press release and presentation will be archived and available in the Investor Relations section of our website.
I will now turn the call over to Jim Jim. Please go ahead.
James W. Green: Thank you, David. And hello, everybody. Let's move to slide three of the presentation and take a look at the highlights for the quarter. Let me start by saying I'm pleased to see growth in North America. However, similar to numerous life science tools companies, we were held back by lower demand in China. Revenue for the quarter was $28.2 million, down a modest 1% from last year on an as-reported basis.
David and Hello, everybody.
Slide three of the presentation take a look at the highlights for the quarter.
Let me start let me start with saying I am pleased to see growth in North America. However, similar to numerous life science tools companies. We were held back by post Covid lower demand in China.
Revenue for the quarter was $28 2 million down a modest 1% from last year on an as reported basis.
James W. Green: This revenue includes the net effect of $900,000 of discounted products compared to the prior year period. Additionally, we did see a net positive currency effect of $400,000. So, adjusting for both currency and discontinued products, underlying core revenue was up about 1 percentage point from the same period last year. Gross margin improved to $16.3 million, or 58% of revenue, up 230 basis points from the same period last year. Our GAAP operating profit was $300,000, up from a negative $500,000 last year. Adjusted operating profit measured $3.3 million or 11.6% of revenue, about flat with the prior year. Adjusted operating profit even measured as $3.7 million or 13% of revenue, again, about flat with the prior year. Gap earnings per share was a 4 cent loss again, the same as last year.
Revenue includes the net effect of $900000 of discounted products compared to the prior year period.
We did see a net positive currency effect of $400000. So adjusting for both currency and discontinued products underlying core revenue was up about one percentage point from the same period last year.
Gross margin improved to $16 3 million or 58% of revenue up 230 basis points from the same period last year.
Our GAAP operating profit was $300000 up from a negative $500000 last year.
Adjusted operating profit measure $3 3 million or 11, 6% of revenue about flat with prior year.
Adjusted EBITDA measured at $3 7 million or 13% of revenue again about flat to last year gap.
GAAP earnings per share was $4 seven for the force that loss again same as last year and adjusted EPS measure of positive four cents a share again same as last year cash flow from operations came in at $4 $3 million up from $2 7 million last year.
James W. Green: And adjusted EPS measured a positive 4 cents a share, again, the same as last year. Cash flow from operations came in at $4.3 million, up from $2.7 million last year. In the appendix, you'll find the bridge from gap measurements to adjusted or non-gap measurements.
In the appendix, you'll find the bridge from GAAP measurements to adjusted or non-GAAP measurements.
James W. Green: So let's move on to slide four and take a look at revenue in the quarter by product family and by region. Starting in the Americas, revenue was up 4.1% as reported and included a 2.1% net reduction from discontinued products, so our core revenue is up about 6%. Preclinical had strong growth in core telemetry and PANEMA enterprise software. Overall, the overall market was held back by lower demand for respiratory products as a part of the recovery from the post-COVID timeframe.
So let's move on to slide four.
Let's take a look at revenue in the quarter by product family and by region.
Starting in the Americas revenue was up four 1% as reported and included a two 1% net reduction from discontinued products. So our core revenue was up about 6%.
Preclinical had strong growth in core telemetry name of enterprise software.
Overall was held back by lower demand in the respiratory products.
As a part of the Recut.
The recovery from the post Covid Timeframes.
James W. Green: Cellular and molecular products were up in electroporation and bioproduction and up in cell-based testing, but they were also impacted by discontinued low-margin products. By the way, we're about done with discontinued products, so I don't expect to be having to talk much about this as we go forward. Moving to EMEA, overall EMEA revenue was up 3.1% as reported and included 2.1% net reduction from discontinued products and a positive currency effect of 4.1%. So adjusting for currency and discontinued products, EMEA was up roughly about 2%. Preclinical systems showed modest growth and was helped by the first installation of our new high-capacity VivaMars behavioral system at a large CRO operation. CMT was down modestly, mostly on discontinued products. Now moving to China and Asia-Pacific. Q4 reported revenue was down 15%. Adjusting for currency and discontinued products, Asia-Pacific was down about 10%.
Cellular and molecular products were up in electrification of bio production and up in cell based testing.
But was impacted by also the discontinued low margin products by the way we're about done with discontinued products. So I don't expect to be happy to talk much about this as we go forward.
Moving to EMEA overall, EMEA revenue was up three 1% as reported and included $2, 1% net reduction from discontinued products and a positive currency effect of four 1%. So adjusting for currency and discontinued EMEA was up roughly about two percentage points.
Preclinical systems showed modest growth and was helped by the first installation of our new high capacity the Mars behavioral system at a large CRO operation.
PMT was down modestly mostly on discontinued products now.
Now moving to China, and Asia Pacific Q4 reported revenue was down 15% adjusting for currency and discontinued products Asia Pacific was down about 10% dilemma.
James W. Green: Telemetry and Ponema Enterprise Software held their own. Cellular and molecular products saw another tough quarter, similar to Q3, and the primary impact, again, was academic customers, where we saw continued weakness due to post-COVID government academic research funding. We see the weakness in China continuing into Q1 2024, though we're hopeful with recent news out of China that market conditions are going to start to improve early going into the second half. And at worst, we'll at least see things annualizing at a level where we hopefully won't see so much back and forth with lumpiness like that. So, let's move on to slide 5, and let me tell you a little bit about some of the exciting new products and how we've positioned our base business to deliver solid growth with expanding margins, and those margins then support investments to commercialize our exciting new high-growth areas, like high-capacity behavior systems, advanced cell and organoids, and bioproduction electroporation applications. This year's commercialization focus started with new product introductions that showcased the Society for Neurology of the Society for Neuroscience, which was in Q4 just this last November.
Calamity in P name of enterprise software held their own cell and molecular products saw another tough quarter similar to Q3 and.
The primary impact again was academic customers, where we saw continued weakness due to post COVID-19 government academic research funding.
We see the weakness in China, continuing into Q1 2024 there.
So we're hopeful with recent news out of China that market conditions are going to start to improve in early going into the second half.
And at worst case will at least see things annualized at a level, where we won't see hopefully won't see so much.
Back and forth.
With Lumpiness like that.
So let's move on to slide five and let me tell you a little bit about some of the exciting new products and how we positioned our base business to deliver solid growth with expanding margins and those margins and support investments to commercialize our exciting new high growth areas like high capacity behavior systems advanced cell and <unk>.
Organized and bio production electroporation applications.
This year's commercialization focus it started with new product introductions that showcase at the society for neurology.
Our society for Neuroscience, which was in Q4 does Justice last November.
James W. Green: And then we're also going to be showcasing these products again at next week's Society of Toxicology. But our first focus is to strengthen our base, which is the vast majority of our business. We introduced our new SOHO shared housing telemetry family of implantables at the Society for Neuroscience last November. At the same time, we introduced our latest PANEMA software that integrates VivaMars, the high-capacity behavioral testing system, and now it's on a single GLP-compliant platform. The PANEMA platform, which is used by the leading CROs, biopharma, and large academic institutions around the world, processes and manages the extremely large data pools acquired during toxin safety testing, now for both telemetry and behavior.
And then we're also going to be showcasing these products again at next week's society of toxicology.
Our first focus is to strengthen our base, which is the vast majority of our business. We introduced our new Soho shared housing telemetry family of Implantables at the society for neuroscience.
Last November at.
At the same time, we introduced our latest <unk> software that integrates the Veeva Mars the high capacity behavioral testing system, but now and now it's onto a single GMP compliant platform. The <unk> platform, which is used by the leading <unk> biopharma large academic institutions around the world It processes and manages the extremely large.
Data pools acquired during Tox and safety testing now for both telemetry and behavior by combining these new applications on a single data management platform. The <unk> system opens new opportunities for our customers to use emerging AI and machine language technologies to analyze these study data and we'll be working with some of our customers to implement.
James W. Green: By combining these new applications in a single data management platform, the PANEMA system opens new opportunities for our customers to use emerging AI and machine language technologies to analyze these study data. And we'll be working with some of our customers to implement these types of new machine language applications, which then turn into what we use for tuning our algorithms. We're also expanding our field service offerings designed to increase recurring revenues and consumables. Our second focus is expanding to high-volume industrial applications. We introduced VivaMars, the high-capacity behavioral system, at the November Society for Neuroscience meeting in Q4, and we had the first commercial installation of VivaMars in Q4 with a large CRO customer.
These types of these new machine language type of applications, which then turn into what we use for tuning our algorithms.
We're also expanding our field service offerings designed to increase recurring revenues and consumables.
Our second focus is expanding to high volume industrial applications, we introduced the <unk> the high capacity behavioral system at the November Society for Neuroscience, and Q4, and we had the first commercial installation that leave a mark in Q4 with a large <unk> customer.
James W. Green: And we're showcasing VivaMars at next week's Society of Toxicology, where we will be meeting with many of our leading CROs and biopharma customers. Our third focus is expanding to bioproduction with our leading electroporation and electrofusion technologies. In January, we established a commercial and application science team dedicated to bioproduction and advances in electroporation. And in February, we released our GLP-CGMP-compliant amino acid analyzer for bioproduction quality control. This system was adapted from our clinical amino acid analyzer in operation today all around the world in leading clinical laboratories. Finally, we're focusing on commercializing our leadership position in advanced cellular applications. We launched the MeSH MEA Organide platform at the Society for Neuroscience.
And we're showcasing the Mars at next week's society of toxicology, where we will be meeting with many of our leading CRM and biopharma customers.
Our third focus is expanding to the bio production to bio production with our leading electroporation electric fusion technology.
In January we established a commercial an application science team dedicated to bio production and advances in electric operations.
And in February we released our GOP cgmp compliant amino acid analyzer for bio production quality control. This system was adapted from our clinical amino acid analyzer in operation today, all around the world in leading clinical laboratories.
Finally, we're focusing on commercializing our leadership position in advanced cellular applications, we launched the mesh MAA Organised platform at the society for neuroscience.
James W. Green: We're also showcasing MeSH-MEA at next week's Society of Toxicology conference. We're excited to see strong interest for applications in research and biopharma discovery, which we expect will then lead to higher volume compound analysis and testing applications at higher volumes. Now I'll turn the call back over to Jennifer, our CFO, to give us a look at key financials. Thank you, Jennifer.
Were also showcasing mesh MAA at next week's society of Toxicology conference.
We're excited to see strong interest for applications in research and Biopharma discovery, which we expect will then lead to higher volume compound analysis and testing applications at higher volume.
Now I'll turn the call back over to Jennifer.
CFO to give us look at key financials. Thank you Jeff. Thank you, Jim let's jump into our Q4 and full year financial results in a little bit more detail.
Jennifer Cote: Thank you, Jim. Now, let's jump into our Q4 and full-year financial results in a little bit more detail. If you can all please refer to slide 7. And as a reminder, in addition to our reported GAAP results, we also include discussion about adjusted or non-GAAP financial results. These align with information we use to internally manage the business, and our slide deck includes a reconciliation between our adjusted results and the corresponding GAAP financial measures on slide 12. So, if you could, please refer to the top middle of the slide.
You can all please refer to slide seven and as a reminder, in addition to our reported GAAP results. We also include a discussion of adjusted or non-GAAP financial results.
<unk> align with information leads to internally manage the business and our slide deck includes a reconciliation between our adjusted results and the corresponding GAAP financial measures on slide 12.
So if you could please refer to the top middle of the slide on a reported basis. Our Q4 gross margin was 58.0% compared to 55, 7% last year, an improvement of 230 basis points.
Jennifer Cote: On a reported basis, our Q4 growth margin was 58.0% compared to 55.7% last year, an improvement of 230 basis points. Our growth margin can fluctuate based on the mix of products, but the year-over-year improvement in our growth margin primarily reflects the impact of the product portfolio improvement initiatives that we completed in 2022. If you refer to the top right of the slide, our adjusted EBITDA during Q4 was flat compared to last year.
Our gross margin can fluctuate based on mix of products, but the year over year improvement in our gross margin primarily reflects the impact of the product portfolio improvement initiatives that we completed in 2022.
If you refer to the top right of the slide our adjusted EBITDA. During Q4 was flat to last year.
Jennifer Cote: It did include investments to complete and launch our new VivaMars behavioral system and our shared housing SOHO platform and to introduce our new MeSH MEA system at the Society for Neuroscience in November. And in the challenging macroeconomic environment, we continue to manage our overall operating expenses, ensuring that our spend is tied tightly to our highest priority. Let's move to slide 8, where we discuss full year results and also our success this year with improving operating cash flow and liquidity. Our full year growth margin truly demonstrated the impact of the changes we made last year and finished at 58.9% compared to 53.7% last year, an improvement of 520 basis points. Last year's growth margin did include inventory write-downs related to discontinued products of $1.5 million, which accounted for 1.3 percentage points of the improvement. Adjusted EBITDA finished in alignment with our expectations at 13%, a strong improvement over last year's 9.6%. Moving to the bottom left, where we show both reported and adjusted loss earnings per share, the differences between our reported and our adjusted diluted earnings per share are highlighted in the reconciliation tables.
Did include investments to complete and launch our new Veeva Morris behavioral system, and our shared housing Soho platform and to introduce our new mesh EMEA system.
Society for neuroscience and November and with the challenging macroeconomic environment. We continue to manage our overall operating expenses, ensuring that our spend is tied tightly to our highest priorities.
Let's move to slide eight where we'll discuss full year results and also our success this year with improving operating cash flow and liquidity.
Our full year gross margin truly demonstrated the impact of the changes we made last year and finished at 58, 9% compared to 53, 7% last year, an improvement of 520 basis points.
Last year's gross margin did include inventory write downs related to the discontinued products of $1 5 million, which accounted for one three percentage points of the improvement.
Adjusted EBIT finished in alignment with our expectations at 13% a strong improvement over last year's nine 6%.
Moving to the bottom left where we show both reported and adjusted loss earnings per share the differences between our reported and our adjusted diluted earnings per share are highlighted in the reconciliation tables.
Jennifer Cote: Last year, we incurred $5.8 million in restructuring and other costs related to the transformation of our business, which accounted for 14 cents of the diluted loss per share on the bottom left chart. Now, switching gears to highlights on cash flow and liquidity. Please refer to the graph in the middle of the bottom row. During Q4, we added an additional $4.3 million in cash flow from operations, bringing our full-year cash flow from operations to $14 million, a substantial improvement over $1.2 million in 2022. Our 2022 operating cash flow was reduced by $4 million in conjunction with the settlement of the CEDAR litigation.
Last year, we incurred $5 $8 million and restructuring and other costs related to the transformation of our business, which accounted for 14 cents of the diluted loss per share on the bottom left chart.
Now switching gears to highlights on cash flow and liquidity. Please refer to the graph in the middle of the bottom row. During Q4, we added an additional $4 3 million in cash flow from operations, bringing our full year cash flow from operations to 14 million a substantial improvement over $1 2 million in 2022.
No.
Our 2022 operating cash flow was reduced by $4 million in conjunction with the settlement of the Cedar litigation.
Jennifer Cote: We received stock as part of the settlement. As opportunity presents itself, we are unwinding our position to assist with the continued paydown of our debt, and so far in 2024, we've unwound over $300,000. Our debt paydown for 2023 was $10.5 million and exceeded our expectations of $10 million. Net debt at year-end compared to the prior year is down $10.4 million.
We received stock as part of the settlement.
As opportunities present itself, we are unwinding, our position to assist with the continued pay down of our debt and so far in 2024, we've unwound over $300000.
Our debt Paydown for 2023 was $10 5 million and exceeded our expectations of $10 million.
Net debt at year end compared to prior year is down $10 4 million.
Jennifer Cote: This is a significant improvement in net leverage, which finished the year at 2.3 times compared to four times at the end of last year. Also, in February 2024, we received a net cash benefit of $2.6 million for the employee retention credit provided by the CARES Act. This is a credit that allows us to encourage the retention of staff by employers that were impacted by government orders associated with COVID-19, and this credit will also allow us to reduce our debt in 2024. Further details on all of this will be available in our 10-K and the non-GAAP reconciliation tables included in our press release and in the appendix to the presentation, and I'm now happy to hand things back over to Jim, who will cover 2024 Thank you, Jen.
This is a significant improvement in net leverage which finished the year at two three times compared to four times at the end of last year.
Also February 2024, we received a net cash benefit of $2 6 million for the employee retention credit provided by the cares Act. This is a credit that allowed AR to encourage the retention of staff by employers that were impacted by government orders associated with COVID-19, and this credit will also allow us to.
To reduce our debt in 2024.
Further details on all of this will be available in our 10-K and the non-GAAP reconciliation tables included in our press release and in the appendix to the presentation and I'm now happy to hand things back over to Jim who will cover our 2024 guidance. Thank.
James W. Green: So moving to slide 10, let's take a look at what we see for the full year 2024. We enter the year with continued market headwinds from China. We expect 2024 to be a tale of two halves.
Thank you Jen.
So moving to slide 10, let's take a look at what we see for the full year of 2024.
As we entered the year with continued market headwinds from China, We expect 2024 to be a tale of two halves, taking everything into account, we expect flat to modest revenue growth for the full year.
James W. Green: Taking everything into account, we expect flat to modest revenue growth for the full year. We expect weakness in the first half versus a strong and very difficult prior year comparison. This is especially true in our China revenue, wherein Q1 2023 was up significantly from 2022 and where we're expecting revenue to be down significantly in Q1 2024, entering this year with these continued headwinds coming in from China. The good news is we do think it's going to annualize by going into the second half, and even with the latest news that we've been hearing out of China, it looks like there might even be some upside from that We do, however, expect strong second half growth versus the first half of this year and versus the second half of last year. So the second half is really the key for the business here, and we're preparing for the second half of this year. You see new products entering production and commercialization. This is going to augment what's happening in the market. So we feel very good about the second half, and we'll get through the first half.
We expect weakness in the first half versus a strong and very difficult. Prior year comparison. This is especially true in our China revenue, where in Q1 2023 was up significantly from 22 from 2022, and where we're expecting revenue to be down significantly in Q1 2020 for entering this year with.
These continued headwinds coming in from China. The good news is we do think it is going to annualize by that going into the second half and even with the latest news that we've been hearing out of China. It looks like there might even be some upside from that.
We do however, expect strong second half growth.
Versus the first half of this year and versus the second half of last year. So the second half is really the key for the business here and we're preparing for the second half of this year you see the new products.
Entering production commercialization. If this is going to augment what's happening in the market. So we feel very good about the second half and we will get through the first half here, we expect meaningful growth from new product commercialization, and we expect China funding to improve going into the second half we expect gross margins in the 60% range up from 59% and.
Operator: We expect meaningful growth from new product commercializations, and we expect China funding to improve going into the second half. We expect gross margins in the 60% range, up from 59%, and we expect adjusted EBITDA margins improving to the mid-teens, up from 13%. With that, I'll turn it over to the operator and open the line for questions. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, you will need to press star 1-1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, simply press star 1-1 again.
We expect adjusted EBITDA margins, improving to the mid teens up from 13%.
With that I'll turn it over back to the operator and open the line for questions. Thank you.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen to ask a question you will need to press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced to withdraw your question simply press Star One again, please standby, while we compile the Q&A roster.
Paul Richard Knight: Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. And our first question comes from the line of Paul Knight with KeyBank. Your line is open. Hiya, Jim.
First question coming from the line of Paul Knight with Keybanc. Your line is open.
Hi, Jim.
James W. Green: As I look at slide five, you know, the SOHO product. The other products on that slide. What portion will they be of your incremental growth in 2024, or will they be half of it? What's the level of their importance? Good question.
Look at.
Slide five the Soho product.
<unk>.
Other products on that slide.
What portion will.
Maybe of your incremental growth in 2024 or will they be.
Half of it what.
The level of their reported.
James W. Green: Certainly, if I think about those four driving pillars, first, the products introduced into our main, what I call base business, the introduction of SOHO and the ability to now offer shared housing and more longitudinal testing. We think that's going to add a nice, that'll continue to support our base business, and my expectation is that it keeps us at or above, kind of the market level. And then the incremental new items, which are the ones you see to the right, starting with Viva Mars. We had the first sale of that last year, which approached a million dollars. We see that growing fairly, even though it's starting with a small base, we see that growing very fast. So that could easily be, you know, doubling as we get into this, to 24.
Yeah. Good question, certainly if I think about those four driving pillars first with the products introduced into the into our main what I call base business, the introducing introduction of Soho for and the ability to now offer shared housing and more longitudinal testing, we think thats going to add a nice that'll that will continue to support our base business and my.
And as that keeps us at or above kind of market.
Market level, and then the incremental new items, which is the ones you see to the right starting with Veeva Mars. We had the first sale of that last year, which approached $1 billion, we see that growing fairly.
Starting with a small base, we see that growing very fast so that could easily be.
Doubling as we get into this into 'twenty four and then our goal I would be disappointed if we didn't see a doubling again going into 'twenty, five and that kind of a growth sector and in time ICD.
James W. Green: And then, you know, our goal. I would be disappointed if we didn't see it doubling again, going into 25 and that kind of growth factor. And in time, I see the behavioral product with Viva Mars really becoming part of the base business because it really provides that overall ability to do your acquisition and your data reduction and consolidation of not just telemetry data, but now you can combine it with all the behavioral data, the neuro safety data, all of that comes together now on a big high, you know, a high volume data analytics system, which is really designed for the ability to get the right kind of information And that's, again, where we plan to start to apply some of the new technologies of machine learning to that. Electroporation and bioproduction are the third area.
The behavioral product with Veeva Mars really becomes part of the base business because it really provides that overall ability to do your acquisition and your data reduction and consolidation of not just telemetry data, but now you combine it with all the behavior behavioral data narrowed safety data all of that comes together now on a bid.
Hi, a high volume data analytics system, which is really designed for the ability for.
Forgetting deriving the right kind of information from it and that's again, where we plan to start this to apply some of the new technologies of machine learning to that.
Electroporation bio production, that's the third area.
James W. Green: That's again an area where coming off of a lower base, you know, maybe this last year was a, you know, if you put all of it together, it's probably somewhere around 5% of our business, but that should be growing fast also. The bioproduction part, I would expect to see that growing at close to 100% a year, but off of a low base. So, you know, that alone could be now adding another couple of points of growth to our core business. And then on the advanced cellular products and the introduction of this, the new advanced organoid platform, this is getting a tremendous amount of interest. And even with the first show at SFN, we had customers coming up who wanted to buy immediately.
That's again an area, we're coming off of a lower base, maybe this last year it was.
If you put all of it together, it's probably somewhere around 5% of our business, but that should be growing fast also the bulk of the bio production part I would expect to see that growing at close to 100 per cent a year, but off of a low base. So that alone could be also now adding another couple of points of growth to our to our core business and then on the <unk>.
Cellular products and the introduction of this of the new.
Advanced Organoid platform. This is getting a tremendous amount of interest and even with the first show SFM.
And we had customers coming up and want to buy immediately so we have to we have a situation here we have to be careful with how we roll that out I will be somewhat limited for at least the first year in terms of volume. So what we're pushing there is if customers really want to start using measuring internal organized and we know these applications and the customers I mean, we know.
James W. Green: So we have a situation here; we have to be careful with how we roll that out. I will be somewhat limited for at least the first year in terms of volume. So what we're pushing there is if customers really want to start using, you know, measuring internal organoids, and we know these applications, and the customers. We know where this is going, we believe we know where this is going to go. But what we're doing is having them qualify themselves by first using our current system.
This is good we believe we know where this is going to go.
But what we're what we're doing is having them if they needed to qualify themselves by firstly using our current system and these systems for EMEA. I mean, this is a 70 to $80000 system and then with the with the assumption that if they want to buy it for mesh.
James W. Green: And these systems for MEAs, I mean, this is a $70,000 to $80,000 system. And then, with the assumption that if they want to buy it for mesh, then they would transition from standard MEA chips to the mesh organoid chip. But we'll be really, we're going to limit the first number to go to certain universities and certain commercial companies for advancing specific applications that we think are going to really drive the future of it. So in that space, again, if I look at where we are in MEAs, you know, it's typically, again, probably in that same region of maybe 5% of our business, that should be growing dramatically. And by dramatically, I would, I'd be, I guess I'd say I'd be disappointed if we didn't see, you know, north of a 30% growth rate in that part of the business.
Then we would probably they would transition from standard EMEA chips to the mesh organoid chip, but will be really were going to limit. The first number to go to certain universities on certain commercial companies for advancing specific applications that we think are going to really drive the future of it so in that space again, if I look at where we are and Mbas.
It's typically a good probably in that same region of maybe 5% of our business that should be growing dramatically by dramatically I would I'd be I guess I would say I'd be disappointed if we didn't see north of a 30% growth vector on that part of the business.
And then should we be and what low single digit declines in first half.
Mid to high.
And then second half on revenue.
James W. Green: And then should we be in what, low single-digit declines in the first half and, mid to high season, second half on revenue? I think that it's fair to say that, you know, coming in, I mean, certainly given such a tough, a tough, you know, comparable to last year, I mean, Q1 last year, that was, it was a record. I mean, I think it was an all-time record, and it was primarily driven by China.
It's fair to say that you know coming in I mean, certainly we've given such a tough a tough.
Comparable to last year Q1 last year that was a record I think it was an all time record.
And it was primarily driven by China, So I imagine that so China, China. It gives us a difficult comparison and then turns around a year later and gives us.
Our low entry into the year, but we do think thats going to correct. So I think to your point.
James W. Green: So you know, imagine that China gives us a difficult comparison and then turns around a year later and gives us, you know, a low entry into the year, but we do think that's going to correct. So I think to your point, you know, I would expect Q1 to be tough, but then, you know, I would expect us to be improving throughout the year from there. Certainly, the second half should really be, you know, a great business for us by then because we've at least got the headwinds. They're no longer headwinds, maybe they're tailwinds, but they're at least no wind, and we'll take that over headwinds any time. So you know, this is going to be, you know, I'd say we'll be, you know, weak in the first half and, I think, very, very strong in the second half, and that's with the new products kicking in to augment that.
I would expect Q1 is going to be tough.
But then I would expect us to be improving throughout the year from there certainly the second half should really be.
<unk> a great business for us by then because we've at least got the headwinds there are no longer they are no longer headwinds, maybe theyre tailwind, but there are at least no wind and we will take that over headwinds anytime. So this is going to be I would say it will be weak in the first half and I think very very strong in the second half.
That's what the new products kicking in to augment that Theres no reason to think that thats not going to be driving that.
The trajectory of our growth vector into it from second half and going forward. Because this is a this is a sustainable growth structure that we've put in place really driven so much by the introduction of these new exciting products.
James W. Green: There's no reason to think that that's not going to be driving the trajectory of our growth factor from the second half and going forward because this is a sustainable growth structure that we've put in place, really driven so much by the introduction of these new exciting products. Okay, and last question, what's your long-term growth rate target, Jim? I mean, I mean, certainly I would target it to be double digits.
Okay and last question, what's your long term growth rate target Jim.
I mean, certainly I would I would target to be double digits. I mean, I think a company like this we have to be somewhere near 10% and depending on how these growth areas. These new growth areas with.
Bio production with.
Organize and such.
That'll determine just how far above or below 10%. We are I mean, I see the base business my target would be base ought to be.
James W. Green: I mean, I think a company like this has to be somewhere near 10 percent. And depending on how these growth areas, these new growth areas with, you know, bioproduction with organoids and such, that'll determine just how far above or below 10 percent we are. I mean, I see the base business. You know, my target would be the base business ought to be, you know, add or a little bit better than the market, you know, maybe it's five to seven. And these new growth areas, you know, maybe they're adding another four or five early on, but then adding another, you know, moving up from there. So I think in that range, and it will really depend on how fast we can commercialize and adopt these areas. And keep in mind, these product technologies, you know; we have very few competitors that can do this. I mean, we are the leader in mea's.
At or a little bit better than market and maybe it's a five to seven.
And these new growth areas, maybe they are adding another four or five early on but then adding another.
Moving up from there.
In that range and again, it will really depend on how fast we can commercialize in the adoption of these areas and keep in mind. These these product technologies. We have very few competitors that can do this I mean, we are the leader in EMEA as well.
We are we will be the leader.
We're gonna BV.
The Intel inside when it comes to how you measure and use or.
How you use organized so that in and bio production. When we very few companies do we see as competitors that gives us a great position scarcity value pricing value and now that we're done fixing things I feel like we're putting our foot on the gas pedal youre going to see now commercialization of these products.
James W. Green: We are, we will be, and I want to be the, you know, the insider when it comes to how you measure and use or how you use organoids. So in bioproduction, you know, when we see only a few companies as competitors, that gives us a great position, scarcity value, and pricing value. And now that we're done fixing things, I feel like we're putting our foot on the gas pedal.
Okay. Thanks, Jim.
Thanks, Paul.
Thank you and ask Amanda to ask a question. Please press star one.
Okay.
And our next question coming from the line of.
Thank you Lorenzo with singular research your line is now open.
Good morning, a question on Bank ranked 2000, Hey, how are you.
Question about the 2023 sales can you give us an idea of what the dollar amount in 2023 for overall revenue was related to discontinued and divested products and.
James W. Green: You're going to see now the commercialization of these products. Okay, thanks, Jim. Thanks, Bob. Thank you, and as a reminder to ask a question, please press star 1 1. And our next question coming from the line of... Frank DiLorenzo with Sunglary Surgery, Lennice Elpin, Good morning. Question about the 2000s. Hey, how are you?
Following along.
Idea.
Long term growth objective.
Frank DiLorenzo: Question about the 2023 sales. Can you give us an idea of what the dollar amount in 2023 for overall revenue was related to discontinued and divested products? And following along the idea of the long-term growth objective, you know, is that something we can begin to assume, you know, getting close to that 10% beginning in 2025 from, say, a 2024 base, being that this year looks, look, relatively flat, mostly due to China? Yeah, good question. I mean, I think the number of discontinued products last year on a net basis was a little over $5 million.
Yeah.
Is that something we could begin to assume you're getting closer to that 10% beginning in 2025 from say 2024 base being that this year it looks.
Relatively flat mostly China.
Yeah. Good question I mean, I think the number of discontinued this last year on a net basis was a little over $5 million.
So five five on 113 or something like that.
That gives you a kind of a base underlying.
The core growth and that's prior to.
Prior to what we see as far as you know with the new introductions and the new growth areas. So if I'm building on a base like that then that kind of underpins what I would suggest that that kind of a base business of five to seven going forward as you look into out years, and then with these new areas augmenting that by arguably and we will see.
James W. Green: So five on 113 or something like that gives you kind of a base underlying core growth, and that's prior to what we see as far as, you know, with the new introductions and the new growth areas. So if I'm building on a base like that, then that kind of underpins what I would suggest for that kind of a base business of, you know, five to seven going forward as you look into the years and then, with these new areas, augmenting that by, you know, arguably, and we'll see how it goes. I mean, maybe we add with the other new areas; we add two or three points; maybe we add five or six. So that'll be the swing on it as to how well adoption happens in the new areas. Okay.
It goes so I mean, maybe we added with the other new areas, we had two or three points, maybe we have five or six so that'll be the swing on it as to how well adoption happens with with the new areas.
Okay.
Regarding you know you've been talking about a lot of new products et cetera, and then the launches is that.
Back ended or or front ended as far as some of the new products getting out there and being purchased by clients and also can you maybe give a little more granularity on that.
Your strategy, except in China, but aside from China about what your strategy might be outside of the United States too.
Frank DiLorenzo: Regarding, you know, you've been talking about a lot of new products, etc. And the launches, is that back-ended or front-ended as far as some of the new products getting out there and being purchased by clients? And also, can you maybe give a little more granularity on your strategy, except in China, but aside from China, but what your strategy might be outside of the United States to garner maybe some incremental growth expansion into some countries are currently in or to other regions? Well, I guess first, you know, the question on, I want to make sure, could you repeat your first question? Because I think that that was so.
Garner maybe some incremental growth expansion into some countries are currently Andrew to other regions.
Well I guess first.
Question on.
I want make sure could you repeat your first question because I think.
That was.
You say.
You've been talking a lot about the new product launches things of that nature can you give us an idea of what the ramp might look like is that fair and it would be more of a share. It can have a first half event et cetera.
Yes.
The newer products as you can tell are there higher content, they're higher higher value theyre higher numbers and they are a little more there are a little bit longer more of a consultative sale. So the introduction started and <unk> in November.
Frank DiLorenzo: You've been talking a lot about the new product launches, things of that nature. Can you give us an idea of what the ramp might look like? And it'd be more of a second half, first half of that, et cetera.
Reinvigorating it again with with society with applications of toxicology. So we see we're at the point now where full commercialization. So the time from order to shipment can vary but typically you will spend products I would say on average you might spend a few months.
James W. Green: Yeah, the newer products, as you can see, they're higher content, they're higher value, they're higher numbers, and they're a little bit longer, more of a consultative sale. So the introduction started in SFN in November. We're reinvigorating it again with the Society for Applications of Toxicology. So we're at the point now where we're in full commercialization, so the time from order to shipment can vary. Typically, you'll spend products, I would say, on average, you might spend a few months getting to secure the order, and then you'd look at it another few months for the first sale of that order.
Getting into our security.
Secure the order and then you would look at it in another few months for the first sale of that order. So it certainly is a little more back end loaded that's why we're seeing the the conversion to shipments and revenue really starting to happen in the second half of this year and then extending from there and expanding from there.
And then your other question about outside the U S. We tend to focus really on what what works and is needed in the U S is a good proxy for what's needed outside the U S. So we tend to again designed mostly for the U S to start with the with the assumption that China is going to want the same thing.
James W. Green: So it certainly is a little more back-end loaded, that's why we're seeing the conversion to shipments and revenue really starting to happen in the second half of this year, and then expanding from there. And then your other question about outside the U.S. We tend to focus really on what works and is needed in the U.S., which is a good proxy for what's needed outside the U.S. So we tend to, again, design mostly for the U.S. to start with the assumption that China's going to want the same thing, there's a heavy investment there, and expect that it's going to be recurring or returning again now, to really bring their ability to do the kind of drug development, and discovery, and research, and then production that's going to be happening, that's going to continue to happen there. Europe also, I mean, we see a lot of science work in Europe, so I would think that in Europe, we'll focus a little bit more on the science side, and then with the U.S. and China, the actual higher volume commercial applications and again, the high volume type of operations.
There is a heavy investment there and we expect that's going to be recurring returning again now to really bring up their ability to do the kind of.
Drug development and discovery and research and then production that's going to be happening that's going to continue to happen there.
Europe also we see a lot of science work in Europe. So I would think that will in Europe, we'll we'll focus a little bit more on the science side, and then with the U S and China.
The actual more higher volume commercial applications in.
Again high volume type of operations.
Okay. Thanks.
Kind of a quick follow on you did talk quite a bit about some of the new product launches that had been going on.
Is there any potential later in this year into 2025 for some additional.
New product introductions or line extensions.
Frank DiLorenzo: Okay, thanks. Just kind of a quick follow-on. You talked quite a bit about some of the new product launches that have been going on. Is there any potential later in this year, into 2025, for some additional new product introductions or line extensions? And also somewhat related to that, what does the landscape look like out there for potentially maybe some partnerships or small sort of M&A activity to kind of bolster some of your current and future offerings? Thanks. That's it. Yeah, a good question.
And also somewhat related to that.
Does the landscape look like out there.
Potentially maybe some partnerships or small sort of M&A.
M&A activity to kind of bolster some of your current and future offerings. Thanks, that's it yes good.
Question, Let's talk about the partnership thing is certainly Theres no question Theres a lot of companies that would really like to penetrate.
Some of the things like areas like by our production there.
There is companies that really want to see.
James W. Green: Let's talk about, you know, the partnership thing. Certainly, there's no question that there are a lot of companies that would really like to penetrate, you know, some of the things like areas like bioproduction. There are companies that really want to see and are interested in some of these technologies that might be used even in clinical applications. So, there are areas there that we could look at, that we will be looking to potentially license out, and that would be in areas where we're not, where we really don't have the capacity or the funding to be able to go after all of it. So, to me, the focus is going to be, if you look at those core growth areas, that's where, as we develop new products, and we will continue to do that, they will fit primarily into those four focus areas.
Interested in some of these technologies that might be used even in clinical applications. So there are areas. There that we could look that we will be looking to potentially license out and that would be in areas, where we're not where we really don't have the capacity or the funding to be able to go after all of it.
So to me the focus is going to be if you look at those core growth areas, that's where as we develop new products and we will continue to do that they will fit primarily into those four focus areas and I and hopefully again like I said, the things that I can't do.
With a company our size, but I can do if I leverage some other major players that are really heavily want to be in some of these areas that I can look to license some of what we're doing through them and and again, our maysville create the value if I can't get a directly I'm happy to get it through.
James W. Green: And hopefully, again, like I said, the things that I can't do, you know, with a company our size, but I can do if I leverage, you know, some other major players that really want to be in some of these areas, I can look to license some of what we're doing through them. And, you know, again, I may as well create value if I can't get it directly.
Working with some partners and your and your thoughts about acquisitions. We now are at the point, where I think we have the.
We have a capital structure in place that as we start to think about.
Acquisitions, there are areas that are very interesting that could fit nicely into our product portfolio and some of these areas are certainly bio production provides some areas that we could potentially augment some of our portfolio.
James W. Green: I'm happy to get it through working with some partners. And your thoughts about acquisitions? You know, we are now at the point where I think we have the capital structure in place where, as we start to think about acquisitions, there are areas that are very interesting that could fit nicely into our product portfolio. And some of these areas are certainly, you know, bio production provides some areas that we could potentially augment some of our portfolio and then, you know, expanding and accelerating what we're doing with the cellular work with organoids. That could be interesting.
And then expanding and accelerating what we're doing with the cellular work with organize that could be interesting in a number of our products as you know in the past there was not a lot of recurring revenue with some of these products you see the new ones were doing theyre designed specifically to bring in recurring revenue to have consumables to have services and field services, we're going to continue.
James W. Green: And a number of our products, as you know, in the past, there was not a lot of recurring revenue for some of these products. But you see the new ones we're doing, they're designed specifically to bring in recurring revenue, have consumables, have services, and field services. We're going to continue to explore and ramp those up, and that's an area that we have some interest in, potentially for acquisition. That's when you think about some of the consumables and buffers and things that are needed by our products in order to provide the function for their customers. So there's a plethora of items for us to expand here. We do have to, again, we're not that big, so we have to be selective of where we make that investment.
Two to explore and ramp those up and Thats an area that we have some interest potentially for acquisition. It is when you think about some of the consumables and buffers and things that are provide that are needed by our.
That our products consume in order to provide the function for their customers. So there is a plethora of items for us to expand here. We do have to again, we're not we're not that big so we have to be selective of where we make that investment, but it's nice to be in a position where you have a wide wide area that you could do but again, we're going to we're going to focus on the areas they are going to.
Give us that pricing power and keep us.
And the ability to stay in our niches and expand from there.
Okay. Thank you.
Thanks Frank.
Thank you.
James W. Green: But it's nice to be in a position where you have a wide, wide area that you could do, but again, we're going to focus on the areas that are going to give us that pricing power and keep us, you know, and the ability to stay in our niches and expand from there. Okay, thanks. Thanks, Frank. Thank you. And there are no further questions in the queue at this time. I will now turn the call back over to Mr. Jim Green for any closing remarks. Okay, well, thank you everybody. Thank you for listening in today. This concludes today's presentation. I hope that you'll join us in May for our first quarter results for fiscal 2024.
There are no further questions in the queue at this time I will now turn the call back over to Mr. Jim Green for any closing remarks.
Okay, well. Thank you everybody. Thank you for listening in today.
This ends today's presentation I hope that you'll join us in may for our first quarter results for fiscal 2024. Thank you very much. This ends the presentation.
Ladies and gentlemen that does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for your participation you may now disconnect.
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James W. Green: Thank you very much. This ends the presentation. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect. Please subscribe to our channel
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