Q4 2023 Perma-Fix Environmental Services Inc Earnings Call

Operator: Greetings. Welcome to the Perma-Fix Q4 and Fiscal 2023 Year-End Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode.

Greetings welcome to the Perma fix Q4 in fiscal 2023 year end earnings conference call.

At this time all participants are in a listen only mode.

Operator: A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press star zero on your telephone keypad. Please note this conference is being recorded. I will now turn the conference over to your host, David Waldman, Investor Relations. You may begin. Thank you and good morning, everyone.

<unk> and answer session will follow the formal presentation.

If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference. Please press star zero on your telephone keypad. Please.

Please note. This conference is being recorded I will now turn the conference over to your host David Waldman Investor Relations you may begin.

Thank you and good morning, everyone and welcome to Perma fix environmental Services' fourth quarter and year end 2023 conference call on this call with US. This morning are Mark Duff, President and CEO, Dr. Lou Centofanti Executive Vice President of strategic initiatives, and Ben Naccarato, Chief Financial Officer, The company issued a press release this.

David K. Waldman: Welcome to Perma-Fix Environmental Services' fourth quarter and year-end 2023 conference call. On the call with us this morning are Mark Duff, President and CEO; Dr. Lou Senefani, Executive Vice President of Strategic Initiatives; and Ben Naccarato, Chief Financial Officer. The company issued a press release this morning containing its fourth quarter and 2023 financial results, which are also posted on the company's website. If you have any questions after the call or would like any additional information about the company, please contact Crescendo Communications at 212-671-1020.

Morning, containing fourth quarter and 2023 financial results, which is also posted on the company's website do you have any questions. After the call would like any additional information about the company. Please contact Crescendo communications at 2126711020, I would also like to remind everyone that certain statements contained within this conference call may be deemed forward looking statements.

David K. Waldman: I'd also like to remind everyone that certain statements contained in this conference call may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and include certain non-GAAP financial measures. All statements on this conference call other than a statement of historical fact are forward-looking statements that are subject to known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors that could cause actual results and performance of the company to differ materially from such statements. These risks and uncertainties are detailed in the company's filings with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission as well as in this morning's press release. The company makes no commitment to disclose any revisions to forward-looking statements or any facts, events, or circumstances after the date hereof that bear upon forward-looking statements.

Within the meaning of the private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and include certain non-GAAP financial measures. All statements on this conference call other than a statement of historical fact are forward looking statements that are subject to known and unknown risks uncertainties and other factors, which could cause actual results and performance of the company to differ materially from such statements. These.

And uncertainties are detailed in the company's filings with the U S Securities and Exchange Commission as well as this morning's press release the company makes no commitment to disclose any revisions to forward looking statements or any facts events or circumstances. After the date hereof that bear upon forward looking statements. In addition, today's discussion will include references to non-GAAP measures.

Mark J. Duff: In addition, today's discussion will include references to non-GAAP measures. Permafix believes that such information provides an additional measurement and consistent historical comparison of its performance. A reconciliation of non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is available in today's news release on our website. I'd now like to turn the call over to Mark Duff. Please go ahead, Mark.

Believes that such information provides an additional measurement and consistent historical comparison of its performance a reconciliation from GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is available in today's news release on our website I'd now like to turn the call over to Mark Duff. Please go ahead Marc.

Mark J. Duff: All right, thanks, David, and good morning. I'm pleased to report we achieved a 35.6% increase in revenue and a 112.7% increase in gross profit for the fourth quarter. We also generated positive EBITDA and positive net income for both the fourth quarter and the full year. We achieved these results despite significant investments in both our internal bidding organization as well as in research and development. As a result of these investments, I truly believe 2024 is shaping up to be a transformative year for the company, and in 2025, we're poised for a major breakout. As I'm sure most of our investors are aware, we are preparing for several large initiatives that we expect will begin to materialize in the second half of this year and set the stage for unprecedented growth.

All right. Thanks, David and good morning, I'm pleased to report we achieved a 35, 6% increase in revenue and <unk>.

12, 7% increase in gross profit for the fourth quarter.

We generated positive EBITDA and positive net income for both the fourth quarter and full year. We achieved these results despite significant investments in both our internal bidding organization as well as in research and development.

As a result of these investments I truly believe 'twenty 'twenty four is shaping up to be a transformative year for the company.

In 2025, we are poised for a major breakout.

As I'm sure most of our investors are aware, we are preparing for several large initiatives that we expect will begin to materialize in the second half of this year and set the stage for unprecedented growth.

Mark J. Duff: Let me begin by addressing some of our recent wins, and then we'll provide updates on some of the upcoming opportunities and specifically why we're so excited about the long-term outlook for the business. Within the services segment, we won several new awards from the Buffalo Corps of Engineers, the U.S. Geological Survey, USGS, the U.S. Navy, and several commercial clients. We've also developed teaming relationships for several large bid procurements. In addition, our joint venture received full award of the Joint Research Council Project by the European Union and the ISPRA Italy facility, which represents a total of up to 50 million euros over the next seven years.

Let me begin by addressing some of our recent wins and then we will provide updates on some of the upcoming opportunities.

Specifically why we're so excited about the long term outlook of the business.

Within our services segment, we realized several new awards from the Buffalo or engineers.

S Geological survey here USD U S Navy and several commercial clients. We also developed teaming relationships for several large bid procurements.

In addition, our joint venture received full award over the Joint Research Council project.

Japan, and India, Italy facility, which represented a total of up to 50 million euros over the next seven years.

Mark J. Duff: Overall, we finished the year with several strategic wins and accomplishments that we believe will support our long-term growth and help us fully diversify our revenue stream. Within our treatment segment, we witnessed an increase in volume with steady improvement in waste receipts early in the quarter. This included increased waste shipments within the commercial sector, along with steady sales from our industrial waste program. While we do not typically provide, and do not plan to provide, Coral Reef Guidelines, I believe it is important to share a more detailed discussion of what we expect in 2024.

Overall, we finished the year with several strategic wins and accomplishments that we believe will support our long term growth and help us fully diversify our revenue stream.

We've been our treatment segment with an increase in volume with steady improvement in waste receipts early in the quarter.

<unk> increased waste shipments within the commercial sector, along with steady sales for more industrial waste programs.

We do not typically provide.

And do not plan to provide quarterly guidance.

Believe it is important to share a more detailed discussion of what we expect in 2024.

We consider this year it would be a transitional year based on the business environment.

Mark J. Duff: We consider this year to be a transitional year based on the business environment and the investments we have made over the past several years for what we believe will be an exciting 2025. Beginning in the fourth quarter of 2013, we started facing certain headwinds that we believe were temporary but will have an impact on the first half of this year. First, as previously disclosed, during the fourth quarter of twenty-three, we completed our two largest service projects at the Princeton Plasma Physics Lab and the McKee Ship Decommissioning Project for the Navy. Both these projects were very successful with strong safety records, and we achieved our anticipated margins and outstanding client ratings throughout the projects. That said, with these two projects now complete, we have not yet secured all the replacement revenue in the services segment due to the timing of the awards and opportunities we're waiting on.

And the investments we have made over the past several years to support what we believe will be an exciting 2025.

Beginning in the fourth quarter of 'twenty, three we started facing certain headwinds that we believe are temporary but will have an impact on the first half of this year.

As we previously disclosed.

During the fourth quarter of 2003, we completed our two largest service projects.

Princeton.

Cause the Princeton.

Plasma physics lab, and the Mckee ship decommissioning project for the Navy.

Both of these projects were very successful with strong safety record and.

We achieved our anticipated margins and outstanding client ratings throughout the projects that said.

These two projects now complete we have not yet secured all the replacement revenue in the services segment due to the timing of the awards and opportunities we're waiting on.

The gap in work, which we anticipate will last about four months has resulted in challenges and weaknesses that will be reflected in our results in the first half of 2024.

Mark J. Duff: The gap in work, which we anticipate will last about four months, has resulted in challenges and weaknesses that will be reflected in our results for the first half of 2024. In addition, due to the inability of Congress to pass a federal budget, the government has been operating under a continuing resolution which has contributed to delays in procurement, project starts, and waste shipment since government clients are holding back budgets due to the uncertainties and the potential of a shutdown over the last five months. January is also a tough month with weather impacts, closing two of our facilities for a week, and delays in project production in the field as well.

In addition to these.

Due to the inability of Congress to pass a federal budget. The government has been operating under a continuing resolution, which has contributed to delays in procurement project starts and waste shipments since government clients are holding back budgets due to the uncertainties and the potential of a shutdown the last five months.

January was also a tough month for with weather impacts closing two of our facilities for a week.

And delays in project production in the field as well that said February March are showing some positive trends in both segments. As a result, the next two quarters will be weaker than we'd anticipated due to the timing of contracts as well as delays relating to the past 24 federal budget. However, as things normalize we'll remain confident in getting back to war.

Alright, and surpassing our business base goal of $25 million.

Mark J. Duff: That said, February and March have shown some positive trends in both segments. However, the next two quarters will be weaker than we've anticipated due to the timing of contracts, as well as delays relating to the passage of the 2024 federal budget. However, as things normalize, we remain confident in getting back to our business-based goal of $25 million in revenues per quarter. In addition, we anticipate that the 2024 budget approved last week will provide increased opportunity for Perma-Fix as the enacted budget reflects about a 9% increase over 2023 at the Department of Energy alone. As I mentioned earlier, we remain particularly optimistic about the second half of the year, and I could not be more excited about the outlook for the business in 2025, given the magnitude of the projects we're currently working on. As we've discussed previously, we are rapidly advancing several initiatives that we believe will significantly enhance our revenues and long-term backlog, beginning in the second half of 2024 and potentially much more in 2025. I'd like to briefly discuss each of these initiatives to provide our investors with an overview of the vision for next year.

And revenues per quarter.

In addition, we anticipate that the 2020 for budget.

Approved last week will provide increased opportunities for.

Perma fix.

Enacted budget reflects about a 9% increase over 2023 at the department of energy alone.

As I mentioned earlier, we remain particularly optimistic about the second half of the year.

Could not be more excited about the outlook for the business in 25, given the magnitude of the projects currently working towards.

As we've discussed previously.

We are rapidly advancing several initiatives that we believe will significantly enhance our revenues.

And long term backlog beginning in the second half of 'twenty four.

And potentially much more than 25.

I'd like to briefly discuss each of these initiatives door to provide our investors an overview of the vision for next year.

First we're benefiting from an increased bidding.

Opportunities within our services segment, including both the government and commercial sectors, where positive what works and we're positioned for large ongoing procurements within the D E and the Navy as well as other midsize procurement initiatives from both D V D and EPA.

These large procurement opportunities include proposals to be submitted over the next few quarters, we've been able to secure strong teaming relationships for potential award anticipated through throughout 2025 that would potentially represent substantial increases in sustainable revenue over the next five to 10 years.

Mark J. Duff: First, we're benefiting from increased bidding opportunities within our services segment, including both the government and commercial sectors. We're positive, but we're positioned for large, ongoing procurements within the DOE and the Navy, as well as other mid-sized procurement initiatives from both DOE, DOD, and EPA. These large procurement opportunities include proposals to be submitted over the next two quarters.

Second we're extremely well positioned to provide waste treatment services.

To support the deal always hampered closure strategy, including the treatment of Alpha one from the day of La facility. Once it commences vitrification operations, which should provide vitrification services to about 40% of the tank farm at Hanford.

January 23.

We signed a record of decision Rod.

Mark J. Duff: We've been able to secure strong teaming relationships for potential awards anticipated throughout 2025 that would potentially represent substantial increases in sustainable revenue over the next five to ten years. Second, we're extremely well positioned to provide waste treatment services to support the DOE's hand foreclosure strategy, including the treatment of effluent from the DF Law facility once it commences vitrification operations, which should provide vitrification services to about 40% of the tank farm at hand. In January 23, we signed a Record of Decision, a ROD, to treat the effluent waste streams from the DFLOF facilities, including our local Perma-Fix Northwest facility, for at least the first 10 years of its operation.

The effluent waste streams from the floor facilities to include our local perfect northwest facility.

For at least the first 10 years of its operations.

We remain optimistic about reports coming from D of law in regard to startup of the smelters, the vitrification plant and the supporting systems, which continues to progress towards hot commissioning in 2025.

Made it in several of the past quarterly calls we are well positioned to treat all of the F. One ways.

Those operations as defined in the one three a record decision might be.

With estimates specifically to generate up.

Up to about 8000 cubic yards of waste annually.

Upon the startup of the vitrification plant.

As I've mentioned in the past the volume of this waste would more than double the production of all our all of our plants combined on an annual basis.

Third the D. We at Hanford has formally recognize the importance of routing relative to the overall closures brazee as.

Mark J. Duff: We remain optimistic about reports coming from DFLAW in regard to the startup of these melters for the vitrification plant and the supporting systems, which continue to progress towards hot commissioning in 2025. As stated in several of the past quarterly calls, we're well positioned to treat all of the effluent waste from those operations as defined in the 2023 Record of Decision by DOE, which estimates specifically to generate up to about 8,000 cubic yards of waste annually. Pulling the Hot Startup of the Vitrification Plan. As I've mentioned in the past, the volume of this waste would more than double the production of all of our plants combined on an annual basis. Third, the DOE at Hanford has formally recognized the importance of grouting relative to the overall closure strategy as a preferred supplement to the current DOE strategy for vitrification of the 57 million gallons of tank waste stored at Hanford. The Hanford Systems Rev 10 document, published in January, was developed and developed over the past three years by DOE to find a new preferred scenario for the Hanford site closure that specifically includes vitrification and D.F. law for the east side of the tank farms and the west side to be treated through commercial grounding technology. The Systems 10.

April supplement to the current dealer strategy for verification of the 57 million gallons of tank waste at Hanford.

The Hanford systems Rev 10 document published in January.

Devote.

And developed over the past three years by D. We defined a new preferred scenario for the Hanford site closure that specifically includes vitrification DF law for the east side of the tank farms and the west side to be treated through commercial routing technology.

<unk> 10.

Systems Rev 10 documents currently being implemented.

To include two new tank removal systems to be installed and operated in late 'twenty five and early 20th six one of these systems that we built installed and operated to support.

For the upload facility, while the other one will be dedicated to removal of tank waste for shipment to commercial ground facilities.

Our disposal off site.

Both the specs for these removal systems, Inc.

Include performance parameters of $3 5 million gallon per year per throughput for pulling waste out of this tax.

Perfect maintains and operates these.

The archived borrowing facilities today.

At the Perma fix northwest facility, which is permitted and outfitted to safely and completely go out up to 30000 gallons per month with the ability to expand that capacity to well over a million gallons annually.

Reducing costs risks and schedule compared to the vitrification alone.

It's important to note that our facility at perfect Northwest offers the only local or regional object for grounding tank waste near the Hanford site and use of rail to ship treated waste for off site disposal.

Mark J. Duff: The Systems REV-10 document is currently being implemented, to include two new tank removal systems to be installed and operated in late 2025 and early 2026. One of these removal systems will be built, installed, and operated to support the DFLO facility, while the other one will be dedicated to removal of tank waste for shipment to commercial grounding facilities or for disposal off-site. Both the specs for these removal systems include performance parameters of 3.5 million gallons per year for throughput for pulling waste out of the system. Perma-Fix maintains and operates these.

This is a much safer option than shipping untreated tank waste by truck out of state for grouting and disposal, which is specifically designed as a higher risk and the need for documents, including the environmental assessment as well as the weird documents.

Developed by <unk>.

So when looking at both treatment of Alpha one.

From the floor and Grouting D was making significant progress in Hanford and the other clinic locations.

Perfect is strategically well positioned with technologies to provide increased value towards those objectives.

Fourth.

We're expecting our waste treatment offering within the commercial and international markets, including Europe, Mexico, and Canada. These opportunities will generate sustained receipts beginning in 2025, providing bond revenues estimated over $10 million annually, which we expect to begin to be realized in late 2004.

Mark J. Duff: Our grouting facilities today at the Perma-Fix Northwest facility, which is permitted and outfitted to safely and compliantly grout up to 30,000 gallons per month, with the ability to expand that capacity to well over a million gallons annually, while dramatically reducing cost, risk, and schedule compared to vitrification alone. It's important to note that our facility at Perma-Fix Northwest offers the only local or regional option for grounding tank waste near the Hanford site and uses rail to ship treated waste for off-site disposal. This is a much safer option than shipping untreated tank waste by truck out-of-state for grouting and disposal. Specifically designed as a higher risk in the NEPA document, including the environmental assessment, as well as the WEIR document. I'm being developed by DOE.

The award of the JRC program, Italy, coupled with our expanding international clients represents continued growth opportunity based on the market for advanced permitted and efficient waste treatment.

We've provided a forum to provide ways stable waste forms that minimize long term storage costs.

The <unk> project supports our expansion program in Europe.

<unk> existing IV acute contracts held by perma fix in the UK and the application of our treatment technologies.

In other European markets.

Fifth we continue to invest in our facilities and capabilities specifically, we're implementing several upgrade activities at our <unk> facility in Eastern Tennessee, well include a multimillion dollar expansion project to allow a broader treatment of reactive waste for a client.

Mark J. Duff: So when looking at both treatment of effluent from DFLO and grouting, DEWI is making significant progress in Hanford and the other cleanup locations, and Perma-Fix is strategically well positioned with technologies to provide increased value towards those objectives. For More Information, Visit www. FEMA.gov We're expanding our waste treatment offering within the commercial and international markets, including Europe, Mexico, and Canada. These opportunities will generate sustained receipts beginning in 2025, providing fine revenues estimated over $10 million annually, which we expect to begin to be realized in late 2024. The award of the JRC program in Italy, coupled with our expanding international clients, represents continued growth opportunities based on the market for advanced, permitted, and efficient waste treatment to provide stable waste forms that minimize long-term storage costs. The DRC project supports our expansion program in Europe, including existing IDIQ contracts held by Perma-Fix in the UK and the application of our treatment technologies in other European markets.

Including advanced safety and security systems to address the growing inventory at several client location.

Additionally, we're investing against all sorts of technology to include fabrication of the second tallest water and potentially a third ought.

Can be deployed by the end of second quarter of 'twenty four.

Sixth and finally, we've made important advances in new technology to treat B Foss contamination.

While we look forward to two full unveiling our technology and strategy in the coming months.

I wanted to give you a glimpse into what we've been working on with news of you aren't familiar with <unk>, which.

As an acronym P F <unk>, which stands for poly floor alkyl substances.

What's your synthetic chemical compounds the market.

For the treatment and disposal of P pause is exploding.

The hazards associated with these what they call forever chemicals.

Thousands of sites across the world.

Large inventories of chemicals not to mention all of the sites within the P fast contamination require.

Remediation as well estimates for.

This market very widely however, the opportunity to provide services and treat D Fox contaminated waste for government.

As well as municipal and commercial client is estimated to be four exceed over $10 billion over the next 10 years.

Mark J. Duff: Fifth, we continue to invest in our facilities and capabilities. Specifically, we're implementing several upgrade activities at our DSSI facility in eastern Tennessee. It will include a multi-million dollar expansion project to allow a broader treatment of reactive waste for our clients, including advanced safety and security systems to address the growing inventory at several client locations. Additionally, we're investing in soil sorting technology to include the fabrication of a second soil sorter and potentially a third to be deployed by the end of the second quarter of 2024. Sixth, and finally, we've made important advances in new technology to treat PFAS contamination, while we look forward to fully unveiling our technology and strategy in the coming months. I want to give you a glimpse into what we've been working on. For those of you unfamiliar with PFAS, which is an acronym for Polyfluoroalkyl Substance, which is a synthetic chemical compound, the market for the treatment and disposal of PFAS is exploding due to the hazards associated with these, what they call, forever chemicals.

According to the environmental business Journal.

In fact, <unk> destruction represent one of the largest potential markets for environmental cleanup over the past several decades.

Our new technology includes five patents.

That have been filed to support the complete destruction of Paphos with no off gas well no toxic effluent.

Missions.

Fixed co founder Dr. Lucinda Barney and his team of engineers and chemists have spent countless hours developing and validating this new technology.

While we know that there are many firms in pursuit of P. Fast remediation, we're confident that our complete destruction technology, coupled with our existing network of generators and client will support rapid expansion.

Of systems to be deployed at each of our plants locations in 2025.

We've already received <unk> from customers.

And recently completed bench scale testing of our new technology supported by independent verification, which demonstrated non detectable presence of contaminate contaminants after treatment.

Our engineers recently completed design of it.

Proof of concept system.

Mark J. Duff: Thousands of sites across the world have large inventories of chemicals, not to mention all the sites within the PFAS contamination that require remediation as well. Estimates for this market vary widely, however, the opportunity to provide services and treat PFAS contaminated waste for government as well as municipal and commercial clients is estimated to be or exceed over $10 billion over the next 10 years. According to the Environmental Business Journal. In fact, PFAS destruction represents one of the largest potential markets for environmental cleanup over the past several decades. Our new technology includes bypasses that have been filed to support the complete destruction of PFAS with no off-gas or no toxic ethylene in an intermission. Perma-Fix co-founder, Dr. Luciano Fani, and his team of engineers and chemists have spent countless hours developing and validating this new technology.

That will be tested later this month was actually being tested as we speak followed by the fabrication phase for our prototype systems currently scheduled for testing and operation in the second quarter of 2024.

We'll be spending in the coming months conducting system optimization.

To maximize our construction effectiveness, while reducing operational costs before we launched our service into the market.

At which point, we expect to begin generating revenue later this year.

Given the low cost as well as the technological and environmental advantages of our new process.

We are already witnessing significant interest from major potential customers as well as regulatory agency our estimate for revenues in 'twenty four is approximately about $2 million through the end of the year. However, once in production.

And based on discussions with our customers.

Paul will achieve multiples of this revenue in 2025.

We have the ability to ramp up production rapidly with high margin potential.

And one final note regarding P fast to put the market opportunity in perspective.

Mark J. Duff: While we know that there are many firms in pursuit of PFAS remediation, we're confident that our Complete Destruction technology, coupled with our existing network of generators and clients, will support rapid expansion of systems to be deployed at each of our plant locations in 2025. We have already received PFAS from customers and recently completed bench-scale testing of our new technology supported by independent verification, which demonstrated the non-detectable presence of contaminants after treatment. Our engineers recently completed the design of a proof-of-concept system that will be tested later this month. It is actually being tested as we speak, followed by the fabrication phase for our prototype systems currently scheduled for testing and operation in the second quarter of 2024. We'll be spending the coming months conducting system optimization studies to maximize destruction effectiveness while reducing operational costs before we launch our service into the market, at which point we expect to begin generating revenue later this year, given the low cost, as well as the technological and environmental advantages of our new process. We're already witnessing significant interest from major potential customers, as well as regulatory agencies. Our estimate for revenues in 2024 is approximately $2 million through the end of the year.

To quote time magazine was headlined in a quote.

MS Historic $10 billion Forever chemical payout is just the tip of the PFS iceberg. So.

The market is very strong and we're very well documented.

So to wrap up the investments we're undertaking the first six months of 'twenty 'twenty four should position perma fix for solid growth in the second half of the year and should position.

It's very very well in 2025 at the same time, we're making significant investments.

As illustrated by the fact R&D is up 67% in 2023 over last year across all projects.

We believe these and other investments will allow us to reap the rewards of years to come. Meanwhile, we remain focused on increasing backlog and productivity, while reducing operating cost to maximize our margins in 2024.

I am very proud of our team.

We've assembled which now includes top notch business development sales team members as well as expert.

From across the industry with expertise in chemistry waste engineering health physics and field operations.

As a side note and from a macro perspective, 'twenty 'twenty four is bringing greater attention to our industry. As we were seeing increases in nuclear power throughout the new plant as well as tomorrow or small modular reactors, which with a renewed emphasis on long term solutions for radioactive waste management.

So while the first half of 2024 looks to be below our performance objectives with a few temporary headwinds. We believe that we're well positioned offers a second half of growth of the year with very high hopes for 2025 I can't emphasize this point enough.

Mark J. Duff: However, once in production, and based on discussions with our customers, we're hopeful to achieve multiples of this revenue in 2025, and have the ability to ramp up production rapidly with high margins. And one final note regarding PFAS, to put the market opportunity in perspective, I'd like to quote Time Magazine, which headlined, "3M's historic $10 billion forever chemical payout is just the tip of the PFAS iceberg." So the market is very strong and very well documented.

And we're more encouraged than ever by the long term outlook for the business with a number of potentially company changing opportunities in.

In the near term horizon.

Okay. So on that note I'll now turn over the call depend naccarato, who will discuss our financial results in more detail.

Thank you Mark.

I'll start with revenue our total revenue from continuing operations for the fourth quarter was $22 7 million compared to last year's fourth quarter of $16 8 million, an increase of $6 million or 35, 6%.

Mark J. Duff: So to wrap up, the investments we're undertaking in the first six months of 2024 should position Perma-Fix for solid growth in the second half of the year and should position us very, very well in 2025. At the same time, we're making significant investments, as illustrated by the fact R&D is up 67% in 2023 over last year across all firms. We believe these and other investments will allow us to reap the rewards of years to come. Meanwhile, we remain focused on increasing backlog and productivity while reducing operating costs to maximize our margins in 2024. I'm very proud of the team that we've assembled, which now includes top-notch business development and sales team members, as well as experts from across the industry with expertise in chemistry, waste engineering, health physics, and field operations.

The revenue improvement.

Which was supported by both operating segments.

<unk> came from our treatment segment, increasing revenue by $1 6 million or 19%.

And that came from increased volume.

And was offset by slightly lower average pricing our services segment increased by $4 3 million or <unk>, 53% and this came from entry increased scope from our.

One of our larger projects and the startup of several smaller projects.

For the year ended 2023, our revenue finished 30 to $89 7 million compared to $70 6 million.

Last year as with the fourth quarter, both our operating segments had substantial increases with the treatment segment, increasing by $10 1 million or 30% and the services segment, increasing by $9 million or 24% again consistent with the fourth quarter. These improvements were volume related.

Mark J. Duff: As a side note, and from a macro perspective, 2024 is bringing greater attention to our industry as we're seeing increases in nuclear power throughout the new plant, as well as SMR, or small modular reactors, which put a renewed emphasis on long-term solutions for radioactive waste management. So while the first half of 2024 looks to be below our performance objectives, with a few temporary headwinds, we believe that we're well-positioned for the second half of growth this year, with very high hopes for 2025. I can't emphasize this point enough, and we're more encouraged than ever by the long-term outlook for the business, with a number of potentially company-changing opportunities in the near-term horizon. Okay, so on that note, I'll now turn over the call to Ben Naccarato, who will discuss our financial results in more detail. Ben?

<unk> in the treatment segment and the result of increased project work in the service segment.

Turning to our gross profit for the quarter.

Our gross profit was $4 3 million compared to $2 million in 2022.

The treatment segment gross profit improved by 564000 from improved revenue and lower fixed facility expenses.

This was offset by higher variable costs related to revenue mix.

In the service segment gross profit improved by $1 7 million from higher revenue and improved margin on our project for.

And this was slightly offset by higher indirect payroll and related expenses.

For the year ended 2023, our gross profit was $16 4 million compared to $9 6 million in 2022.

Both our operating segments gross profit improved with treatment segment, improving by $1 6 million.

And thats from higher revenue offset by.

Higher variable costs and increased facility expenses. The service segment gross profit increased by $5 1 million from higher revenue and improved margin out of projects.

Benio Annaldo Naccarato: Thank you, Mark. I'll start with revenue, our total revenue from continuing operations. The fourth quarter was $22.7 million compared to last year's fourth quarter of 16.8 million, an increase of 6 million, or 35.6 percent.

Set by higher indirect payroll related expenses.

Our SG&A for the fourth quarter was $4 million compared to $3 6 million in the fourth quarter last year.

Benio Annaldo Naccarato: The revenue improvement, which was supported by both operating segments, came from our treatment segment, increasing revenue by 1.6 million, or 19%. And that came from increased volume, and was offset by a slightly lower average price. Our services segment increased by 4.3 million, or 53%, and this came from increased scope from one of our larger projects and the startup of several smaller projects. For the year ended 2023, our revenue finished at $89.7 million compared to $70.6 million last year. As with the fourth quarter, both our operating segments had substantial increases, with the treatment segment increasing by 10.1 million, or 30 percent, and the services segment increasing by 9 million, or 24 percent.

While our SG&A for the full year finished at $15 million compared to $14 $7 million last year SG&A in the quarter were higher primarily as a result of higher employee incentive expenses booked in the quarter.

Similar to the quarter SG&A expenses were up for the year from an employee incentive expenses and other payroll related expenses.

Offset by lower audit legal and other consulting expenses.

Our net income for the quarter was 81000 compared to last year's net loss of $1 7 million for the year ended December 31, net income was 485000 compared to a net loss of $3 8 million in the prior year.

Our basic and diluted net income per share for the quarter was one <unk>.

Compared to a loss per share of <unk> 13 in the prior year.

Benio Annaldo Naccarato: Again, consistent with the fourth quarter, these improvements were volume-related in the treatment segment and the result of increased project work in the services segment. Turning to our gross profit for the quarter, our gross profit was $4.3 million compared to $2 million in 2022. The treatment segment gross profit improved by $564,000 from improved revenue and lower fixed facility expenses, but this was offset by higher variable costs related to revenue mix.

Income per share for the year ended December 31 2023.

Was <unk> a share compared to a loss.

Per share of <unk> 29 in the prior year.

Adjusted EBITDA for continuing operations for the quarter as defined in our this morning's press release was 434000 compared to a loss of $1 million last year for the year ended 2023, adjusted EBITDA was $3 3 million.

<unk> to a loss of $3 3 million in 2022.

Turning to the balance sheet, our cash on the balance sheet was $7 5 million compared to $1 9 million at the end of 2022.

Benio Annaldo Naccarato: In the service segment, gross profit improved by $1.7 million from higher revenue and improved margin on our project work, although this was slightly offset by higher indirect payroll related expenses. For the year ended 2023, our gross profit was $16.4 million, compared to $9.6 million in 2022. Both our operating segments' gross profit improved, with the treatment segment improving by 1.6 million, and that's from higher revenue offset by higher variable costs and increased facility expenses. The service segment gross profit increased by $5.1 million from higher revenue and improved margin on its projects, offset by higher indirect payroll related expenses.

Collecting improved cash from operations and the reload of our term loan by $2 $5 million in July of 'twenty three.

Our unbilled receivables were up $2 4 million, reflecting increased year over year revenue.

Timber revenue primarily in the services segment.

Our current liabilities were up $3 2 million from the timing of payments and increased expenditures, particularly in the services segment had December 31, our waste treatment backlog was $8 7 million plus an additional $2 million of unearned revenue for a total of $10 7 million, which is up from.

$9 2 million at the end of 'twenty, two and $9 6 million at September.

Total debt at the year end was $2 9 million.

Benio Annaldo Naccarato: Our SG&A for the fourth quarter was $4 million compared to $3.6 million in the fourth quarter last year. SG&A for the full year finished at $15 million compared to $14.7 million last year. SG&A in the quarter was higher primarily as a result of higher employee incentive expenses booked in the quarter.

Excluding our debt issuance costs, which is mostly owed to P&C.

Next I'll discuss cash flow activity for 'twenty three our cash provided by continuing operations was $6 7 million.

Our cash used in our discontinued operation was $511 97.

Benio Annaldo Naccarato: Similar to the quarter, SG&A expenses were up for the year from employee incentive expenses and other payroll-related expenses offset by lower audit, legal, and other consulting expenses. Our net income for the quarter was $81,000 compared to last year's net loss of $1.7 billion. For the year ended December 31, net income was $485,000, compared to a net loss of $3.8 million in the prior year. Our basic and diluted net income per share for the quarter was one cent, compared to a loss per share of 13 cents in the prior year.

Cash used for investing of continuing operations was $1 7 million all related to cap spending.

Cash provided from financing was $1 7 million.

Which represents proceeds from the reload of our term loan of $2 5 million and proceeds from <unk>.

Various option and warrant exercises of approximately 300000 offset by our monthly payments to the term and capital loans of 709000.

And payments related to finance lease liabilities and other debt of approximately 364000.

With that operator, I'll turn the call over to questions.

Benio Annaldo Naccarato: Income per share for the year ended December 31, 2023 was $0.04 a share compared to a loss per share of 29 cents in the prior year. Adjusted EBITDA for continuing operations for the quarter, as defined in this morning's press release, was $434,000 compared to a loss of $1 million last year. For the year ended 2023, adjusted EBITDA was $3.3 million compared to a loss of $3.3 million in 2022. Turning to the balance sheet, our cash on the balance sheet was $7.5 million compared to $1.9 million at the end of 2022, reflecting improved cash from operations and the reload of our term loan by $2.5 million in July of 2023. Our unbilled receivables were up $2.4 million, reflecting increased year-over-year revenue, and December revenue primarily in the services segment.

Certainly at this time, we will be conducting a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad.

<unk> tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You May Press Star two if you would like to remove your question from the queue.

For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys.

One moment, please while we poll for questions.

Your first question for today is from Hallock browse with Wellington Shields.

Thank you.

First of all Mark.

Hello Congratulations.

<unk> done at the beginning of a great turnaround.

There was an article in Barron's this past Saturday the indicators that the market for <unk>.

About 100 billion not $10 billion, you missed a comment there mark.

Okay.

Okay.

$10 billion.

Sure.

Let me start with the first question about opportunity we know about Oss.

There are other very large opportunities like OSI mezz in the foreseeable future if you can be.

A little granular we'd appreciate that that's my first question.

Sure.

Then our hours, but I appreciate your question, yes, we are.

Benio Annaldo Naccarato: Our current liabilities were up $3.2 million due to the timing of payments and increased expenditures, particularly in the services segment. At December 31, our waste treatment backlog was $8.7 million plus an additional $2 million of unearned revenue for a total of $10.7 million, which is up from $9.2 million at the end of 2022 and $9.6 million in September. Total debt at year end was $2.9 million, excluding our debt issuance costs, which are mostly owed to PNC.

We're always sensitive to discussing ongoing procurement, but.

No.

Our participating.

And the rebid of the West Valley.

Project in New York.

<unk> has been submitted oswaldo team for that that's about a $3 billion project over 10 years.

Our teaming partner so that we're not prime on that.

And distributed to be awarded in the queue.

Q4 Q1 timeframe.

And also we tend to be we have a very good team that we intend to participate on the enterprise decommissioning project enterprises the aircraft carrier.

Benio Annaldo Naccarato: Next, I'll discuss cash flow activity for 23. Our cash provided by continuing operations was $6.7 billion, and our cash used in our discontinued operation was $597,000. Cash used for investing in continuing operations was $1.7 million, all related to cap spending. Cash provided for financing was $1.7 million, which represents proceeds from the reload of our term loan of $2.5 million and proceeds from various option warrant exercises of approximately $300,000, offset by our monthly payments to the term and capital loans of $709,000, and payments related to finance, lease, liabilities, and other debt of approximately $364,000. With that, Operator, I'll turn the call over to questions. Certainly. At this time, we will be conducting a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue.

The Navy will be decommissioning.

And we expect that.

Yet to be awarded in.

And the proposal <unk> me back that we expect the proposal to go in.

Later this summer.

An award in May of 'twenty five.

Just a couple of the big bids.

Saying pretty major roles and we are still waiting although as Emma.

They have.

Going out for what they call up.

Final proposal revisions, where they asked bidders.

Answer some questions and provide some feedback so we are in that process.

<unk>.

It's very difficult to project.

When we pay the award that but a word on the street and speculation is.

They expect to award that little bit later, this summer with transition to be completed.

End of this fiscal government fiscal year, which just ended September.

So still no word on the work for that yet.

Couple of other where we're negotiating teams on right now, but that's generally where we are in the big bid.

Great. Thank you let.

Let me focus on the Coa document that you referred to.

Operator: You may press star 2 if you would like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star key. One moment, please, while we poll for questions. Your first question for today is from Howard Brous with Wellington Shields. Thank you.

Earlier.

Alright can you can you confirm that David dotted scenario number two.

Youre, referring to the Hanford systems document Rev 10, they call it.

Yeah, which is a 400 page.

Documented includes two primary scenarios for their closure strategy and Thats, a pretty dramatic change for <unk> over the last three years.

Howard Brous: Then, Lou, congratulations on the beginning of a great turnaround. There was an article in Barron's this past Saturday that indicated that the market for PFAS was about $100 billion, not $10 billion. You missed a comma there, Mark.

They put that every every three years.

And.

The first scenario is specifically what they have been moved.

Moving towards for the last 10, or 15 years, which is vitrification of all of the tanks.

Mark J. Duff: Okay, I thought we said 100. Okay. Can't bury it.

And in some form in other words, it up to get deal flow running and then they were going to build a new or a second VF law type of plant treat the other half what they've done is they've abandon that capital project.

Howard Brous: Let me start with the first question about opportunities. We know about OSMS. Are there other very large opportunities like OSMS in the foreseeable future? If you could be a little granular, we'd appreciate that. That's my first question. Sure, Ben or Howard. I appreciate your question.

And the scenario two.

We're basically saying <unk>.

I'll have the tanks will go to the floor plan and the other half the tank of all the tanks will go towards routing.

Mark J. Duff: Yeah, we You're always sensitive to discussing ongoing procurement, but we'll let you know we are participating in the rebid of the West Valley project in New York, which has been submitted. So we're on a team for that. That's about a $3 billion project over 10 years. We're a teaming partner, so we're not the prime on that. That's anticipated to be awarded in the Q4, Q1 timeframe. Also, we have a very good team that we intend to participate in the Enterprise Decommissioning Project. Enterprise is the aircraft carrier that the Navy will be decommissioning.

Specifically.

Commercial routing in other words does not at this point tend to build the grounding plant with a plan to outsource it.

They have.

There is an official document that says they're implementing scenario too, but they are publicly deal we have publicly stated.

They are adapting.

Scenario two in fact, they are procuring the waste treatment removal systems that I mentioned.

As the first step.

So those are to.

To be awarded here.

In the next couple of quarters.

And ought to be implemented.

Mark J. Duff: We expect that to be awarded in the proposal. We expect the proposal to go in later this summer and be awarded in May of 2025. Those are just a couple of the big bids that we're playing three major roles in. We are still waiting on OSMS.

For pulling waste out of the tanks as.

As I mentioned in late 'twenty, five 'twenty six timeframe and has design basis of about 7 million gallons a year to be pulled out a tank.

Mark J. Duff: Uh, they have gone out for what they call final proposal revisions, where they ask bidders to answer some questions and provide some feedback. So we are in that process. It's very difficult to project when they plan to award that, but word on the street and speculation is they expect to award that a little bit later this summer, with transition to be completed at the end of the fiscal year, which is the end of September. So still no word on the work for that yet, but there's a couple that we're negotiating teams on right now, but that's generally where we are on the big bid. All right, thank you. Now, let me focus on the DOE document that you referred to earlier. Uh, can you, can you confirm that they've adopted scenario number two? Yeah, you're referring to the Hanford systems document rep 10, they call it. Yeah, which is a 400-page document that includes two primary scenarios for their closure strategy. And that's a pretty dramatic change for DOE over the last three years. They put that in place every three years.

With both of those combined have go into via Florida, They have gone to.

Routing program.

Well Ted.

<unk>.

Subtracting high level waste, which is.

8 million gallons.

Youre left with 48 million gallons in the document you're referring to.

The.

Comments strongly made as they would split it as you indicated.

Which ultimately means 24 million gallons of vitrification and 24 million gallons to the grouting.

That's my one my understanding and to.

Therefore, the rod that was talked about in January of last year talked about 10 years, when effectively at 1 billion gallons a year of electrification.

You have about 2025 years, where generation along.

Sure.

Comment.

Yeah, there's a couple of things missing from that comment.

Yes.

Correct about 25 million gallons in total.

A good estimate but keep in mind that when you pull a gallon of waste out of a tank you're typically adding two to three gallons to that waste.

Mark J. Duff: The first scenario is specifically what they've been moving towards for the last 10 or 15 years, which is education for all. And in some form, in other words, they'd have to get DFO running, and then they were going to build a new or second DFO type plant to treat the other half. What they've done is they've abandoned that capital project in Scenario 2, where basically they're saying half the tanks will go to the DFO plant, and the other half of all the tanks will go towards routing, specifically commercial routing. In other words, DOE does not, at this point, intend to build a grouting plant, but they plan to outsource it. They have, There's not an official document that says they're implementing Scenario 2, but they have publicly stated that they are adopting Scenario 2.

Two two to two slurry it out to get it out because it's largely dry or with at best case peanut butter economy.

Consistent is you got to add water to it and you. So you expand.

Those gallons significantly.

Significantly as.

As you're pulling it out.

But generally you're right.

The duration.

Duration is quite long.

I mentioned the <unk>.

1 million gallons, a year that the capacity of the pulling out they don't have the capacity to treat that much.

So I'm, assuming that 7 million gallons of years.

As design capacity would not be really attainable it would be something less than that when you consider downtime and changing out.

Howard Brous: In fact, they are procuring the waste treatment removal systems that I mentioned as the first step. So those are to be awarded here in the next couple quarters and are to be implemented for pulling waste out of the tanks, as I mentioned in the late 2025-2026 timeframe. And those design bases are about 7 million gallons a year to be pulled out of tanks, with both of those combined, half going to DFL and the other half going to grounding programs. That said, if you subtract high-level waste, which is, it's 8 million gallons. You're left with 48 million gallons, and in the document you're referring to, we, comments strongly made that they would split it, as you indicated, which ultimately means 24 million gallons of vitrification and 24 million gallons to be grouted. That's one, my understanding. And two, therefore, the rod that was talked about in January of last year talked about 10 years when, effectively, at a million gallons a year of vitrification, you're talking about 20-25 years or generational long. Is that a fair comment?

The resin columns and those kinds of things that have to happen in an outage.

Quarterly.

No.

It'll be it'll it'll be a little bit less than that generated but for us quite a bit actually but.

It's a significant amount of ways over a significant amount of time.

That will span multiple careers and people.

So last comment to put a bow on all of this.

Please specifically in this document talked about.

Have crowding.

And hence vitrify.

And they have to be crowded into the ship to perma fix all of it and then once that is granted chip to.

Andrews, Texas WCS.

That's my understanding after reading the documents.

And it's a long documents.

It is.

I think it may be.

A bold prediction.

It's.

We have a contract obviously for the to support the Rod for DF law.

And the grounding of the tank farms.

Which is obviously a second component of our overall strategy.

It hasn't been defined specifically for us.

Mark J. Duff: Yeah, there are a couple things missing from that comment, you know, when, Yes, you're correct about 25 million gallons in total would be a good estimate. But keep in mind that when you pull a gallon of waste out of a tank, you're typically adding two to three gallons to that waste to slurry it out, to get it out, because it's largely dry or, best case, peanut butter kind So you have to add water to it, so you expand those gallons significantly as you're pulling it out. But generally, you're right, you know, the duration is quite long. I mentioned the seven million gallons a year, the capacity they're pulling out. They don't have the capacity to treat that much, so I'm assuming that seven million gallons a year as design capacity would not be really attainable; it would be something less than that when you consider downtime and changing out the resin columns and those kinds of things that have to happen in an outage quarterly. So it'll be a little bit less So, my last comment to put a bow on all of this.

They are trying to find.

Slide other folks to compete with us which is obviously.

Best interest of the taxpayer.

Again, as I've mentioned and we've talked many times, we are the only regional.

Opportunity to do that.

And we have agreements with local unions to use their services as well we're excited about that.

And the alternatives as we mentioned before is to ship.

Untreated waste via tanker truck to off site.

<unk> facilities that are not in the region.

It does take a long time to get a permit from the state.

And 10 years plus.

As estimated so we feel like we're in a really good position to provide the lowest risk approach as well as the most efficient approach and we're looking at it.

Advanced technologies for the grouting process.

And designing.

Efficient means of grounding that large volume.

As we expand our plant as the volume increases delivered to our plan over the year. So we feel like we're in a great position.

That.

It seems kind of like a no brainer, but he's got it.

Howard Brous: They specifically in this document talk about half-crowded and half vitrified. And the half to be grouted is to be shipped to Perma-Fix, all of it. And then once it's grouted, shipped to, I think it's Andrews, Texas, WCS. That's my understanding after reading the document. And it's a long document. Yeah, it is.

To meet their objectives as well, but we're pretty confident we will get the majority of that waste as it starts to be generated from the tank farms.

Well one of the issues is shipping to Mattel It tried sacred lands and they said no.

Is my understanding.

Just on the treaty that they have with the United States government that supersedes the ICC.

And the ability to ship it over their territory.

Mark J. Duff: It is a bold prediction, you know, it's, uh... We have a contract, obviously, for the rod for DF Law, and the grouting of the tank farms, which is obviously a second component of the overall strategy, hasn't been defined specifically for us, you know, that they're trying to find other folks to compete with us, which is, you know, obviously, in the best interest of the taxpayer. Again, as I've mentioned, we talked many times, we are the only regional opportunity to do that. And, you know, we have agreements with the local unions to use their services as well. We're excited about that, and the alternative, as we mentioned before, is to ship the untreated waste via tanker truck to off-site facilities that are not in the region. It does take a long time to get a permit from the state, and, you know, 10 years plus, it's estimated.

So shipping it to cloud, Utah, I don't see that.

Based on the evidence and.

Then the comment I don't see that happening what about Andrews, Texas.

Yes, <unk> been very vocal about it.

Untreated tank waste.

Through the reservation, which is.

As required largely to ship alright tanker.

Off of the reservation and goes out through Oregon.

And.

They continue to the trial continues to be vocal about that.

The political issue to deal we will have to address.

But it certainly.

It makes it very difficult.

And so difficult for <unk>.

Do you use that as an option.

Which we've gotten good support and letters have been written supporting.

Our facility to do the grouting ship.

Solid waste swamped by rail, which had been supported it's much more stable and safer way.

Howard Brous: So, we feel like we're in a really good position to provide the lowest risk approach as well as the most efficient approach. And we're looking at advanced technologies for the grouting process and designing the most efficient means of grouting that large volume as we expand our plant and as the volume increases as we deliver to our plant over the years. So, we feel like we're in a great position. That seems kind of like a no-brainer, but Dewey's got it, and is going to meet their objectives as well, but we're pretty confident we'll get the majority of that waste as it starts to be generated from the tank farm. Well, one of the issues is shipping through Umatilla tribe sacred lands, and they said no. And my understanding, based on the treaty that they have with the United States government, that supersedes the ICC and the ability to ship it across their territory. So shipping it to Clyde, Utah, I don't see that. Based on the evidence and the comments, I don't see that happening. What about Andrews, Texas?

And if you do the accident scenarios for that number of trucks.

These statistics are a lot different than by rail.

So we're pretty confident that that comment.

Comment you just made.

Assist in.

And recognizing the value of the permanent fixes provided <unk> with a local facility.

Last question.

I'll rejoin the queue.

When you talked about 2025 and P. S. A S.

What kind of multiple if you're doing a couple of million dollars. This year.

How do you foresee this developing in.

In 2025, and do you have the capacity.

You could do it.

So that's a really tough question Howard Alright, alright.

Okay, I am not prepared to give a lot of detail until we get these questions about what does it really mean to us in 25, it's really tough to nail it down because we don't know our throughput yet.

We are just finishing.

Trading.

What's it called firefighting foam, whether a triple fs and drum quantities right now in our pilot plant.

Mark J. Duff: Yeah, the Umatilla tribes have been very vocal about shipping untreated tank waste through the reservation, which is required largely to ship a tanker off of the reservation and go south through Oregon. And they continue to, the tribe continues to be vocal about that. That's a political issue that DOE will have to address, but it certainly makes it very difficult and difficult for DOE to use that as an option, which, you know, we've gotten good support for, and letters have been written supporting our facilities to do the grouting and ship solid waste forms by rail, which have been supported. It's a much more stable and safer way. And if you do the accident scenarios for that number of trucks, that's, Statistics are a lot different than by rail.

And.

We're nailing down the parameters for the unit in other words, how much how fast it can go with what the mixture is need to be to optimize the system.

And as.

As I mentioned, we are getting very meaningful results in other words, we're meeting.

And demonstrating that we're meeting.

Any regulatory limit that's been proposed out there.

So in other words, we're receiving.

Seeing total destruction of <unk>, where most of our competitors don't.

Have a waste stream coming out.

Either an epsilon or.

Air emissions or some other type of Epsilon so.

We're very excited about that we don't know what that really is going to mean to.

To us next year as I mentioned, our goal is to develop a plan for.

For treating this <unk>.

Mark J. Duff: So, we're pretty confident that the comment you just made will assist in recognizing the value that Perma-Fix is providing to DOE with our local facility. Last question, and I'll rejoin the queue. When you talk about 2025 and PFAS, what kind of multiple is it if you're doing a couple of million dollars this year? How do you foresee this developing in 2025, and do you have the capacity to do it? Well, that's a really tough question, Howard. All right. Sorry. Yeah, it's OK. I'm not prepared to give a lot of detail.

At each of our locations the Triple left we view as the lowest hanging fruit of the market people have hundreds and thousands of drums of a triple a store of their facilities all across the country.

And literally all across Europe.

And basically every air force base.

Airport has demonstrable has trained with firefighting foam.

Has been.

One of the bigger causes of the contamination.

So we're focused on those first.

Mark J. Duff: I knew I knew we'd get these questions about what it really means to us in 25. It's really tough to nail it down because we don't know our throughput yet. We are just finishing treating what they call firefighting foam with a triple F in drum quantities right now in our pilot plant, and we're nailing down the parameters for the unit. In other words, how much it can do, how fast it can go, and what the mixtures need to be to optimize the system.

We are still trying to define what the market will bear in regards to our cost.

What we can charge per gallon.

This versus what our costs are so it's really difficult for me to address that with a specific number Howard I will say this is okay.

As we get we're gonna be having press releases come out.

And the next in the coming months.

In defining this more and more and more.

As we get these results, it's moving very very quickly and we have a lot of people working on it and.

Mark J. Duff: And as I mentioned, we are getting very meaningful results. In other words, we're meeting and demonstrating that we are meeting just about any regulatory limit that's been proposed out there. So in other words, we're receiving and seeing total destruction of the defrost where most of our competitors have a waste stream coming out, either an effluent or air emissions or some other type of effluent. So we're very excited about that. We don't know what that is really going to mean to us next year.

It's all been.

We've been checking all the boxes for the parameters and meet up to this point. So we're excited about it.

Uh huh.

Every day that goes by we're more and more confident that that will really hit the ground hard running.

When we get through our final test.

Congratulations to your management team. Thank you alright, thanks, Eric.

Your next question is from Walter Schenker with an AC.

Thank you just one more point on the DFAST that that's how you pronounce it.

Mark J. Duff: As I mentioned, our goal is to develop a plant for treating this as a triple F at each of our locations, which we view as the lowest hanging fruit of the market. People have hundreds and thousands of drums of triple F store in their facilities all across the country and literally all across Europe. And basically, every Air Force base and airport has or has been trained with firefighting foam, which has been one of the bigger causes of the contamination. So we're focused on those first. We're still trying to define what the market will bear in regards to cost, what we can charge per gallon for this versus what our costs are. So it's really difficult for me to address that with a specific number, Howard. But I will say this.

Thanks.

People had mentioned it was nice to have Barron's article so we can understand a little more about the market.

Simply because I like simply what you have developed.

As a methodology to.

Born.

To destroy.

The fire fighting foam as the lowest hanging fruit.

Is that right.

Underground in way of looking at.

No not really Walter.

We're not burning it burning it.

Has been.

Largely banned in other words incineration by D. U N D O D and the reason they banned it was because of the.

Mark J. Duff: As we get – we're going to be having press releases come out in the next couple of months and defining this more and more and more as we get these results. It's moving very, very quickly. We have a lot of people working on it, and it's all been – We've been checking all the boxes for the parameters we need to meet up to this point. So we're excited about it, and every day that goes by, we're more and more confident that we'll really hit the ground running when we get through our final test. Congratulations to your management team. Thank you. All right. Thanks, Howard.

Potential for putting <unk> in the air.

And the amount the difficulty in controlling at work on our approach is using chemistry.

And.

There is a strong potential and we're developing this now and I'll, let Lou jump in if he has got wants to add something here.

Debt.

We can recycle some of the chemicals, we're using.

In our system.

That's kind of phase two of our technology demonstration.

That would literally.

Walter Schenker: Your next question is from Walter Schenker with MAZ. Thank you. Just one more point on PFAS, if that's how you pronounce it.

Pretty much eliminate all the effluent.

Concerns that other technologies have so.

Walter Schenker: You know, people have mentioned that Barron's article was nice, so we could understand a little more about the market. Simply, because I like simple, what you have developed is a methodology to burn, to destroy firefighting foam as the lowest hanging fruit. Is that like the kindergarten way of looking at it? No, not really, Walter.

There may be the heat will certainly in pressure will certainly accelerate.

The chemical reactions, we need to occur but.

But there is there is no off gas, which is what you'd get if you burned it lose or anything you want to add to that.

Yeah, it's a very simple process basically done in a sealed container.

Mark J. Duff: We are not burning it. Burning it has been largely banned, in other words, incineration, by DOE and DOD. And the reason they banned it was because of the potential for putting PFAS in the air and the amount, and the difficulty in controlling that.

Take the liquids dumping.

Our special materials.

Sit for a couple of hours some temperature.

Everything's gone everything we've screened it on every fluorocarbon, we screened it on us.

Mark J. Duff: Our approach is using chemistry, and there's a strong potential, and we're developing this now, and I'll let Lou jump in if he wants to add something here, that we can recycle some of the chemicals we're using in our system. That's kind of phase two of our technology demonstration, that would literally... pretty much eliminate all the effluent concerns that other technologies have. So there may be heat will certainly and pressure will certainly accelerate the chemical reactions we need to occur, but there's no off gas, which is what you'd get if you burned it.

This system destroys it even even teflon.

So where.

We're very excited about it has lots of applications potential applications in life.

Mark has said the number one application initially that we see the low hanging fruit is are the liquids either from.

Old materials sitting out there or some of the separation processes.

Starting to use for groundwater cleanup with that so so we see a very large potential market in several different areas.

Dr. Lou Senefani: Elisa, anything you want to add to that? Yeah, it's a very simple process basically done in a sealed container. Take the liquids, dump in our special material, and I sit for a couple hours at some temperature, and everything's gone.

The first one being liquids and then we'll look we're continuing to look at all the other potential applications of the system, we see a lot of application potential.

Potential applications.

Dr. Lou Senefani: Everything we've screened it on, every fluorocarbon we've screened it on, this system destroys it, even Teflon. So we're very excited about it, and it has lots of applications, potential applications, and like, the number one application initially that we see the low-hanging fruit is liquids either from old materials sitting out there or some of the separation processes that are starting to be used for groundwater cleanup and that. So we see a very large potential market in several different areas, the first one being liquids, and then we'll look, and we're continuing to look at all the other potential applications of the system. We see a lot of applications. Potential applicants. Thanks, Lou. By the way, hi Lou. Walter, how are you?

Thanks, Lou by the way Hi Lo.

Walter how are you.

And therefore since I was willing to first time this market is.

Again.

Potentially billions of dollars or tens of billions of dollars in perma fix is a very small company and it's nice to do a couple of million dollars or even tens of millions, but that's a.

In almost insignificant against billions.

Therefore, it is possible or likely on a longer term basis that you could license one of the very large players.

We've kept every option open on how we grow this the first real obvious since we have facilities that are licensed and permitted depend.

Walter Schenker: And therefore, since I was wrong the first time, this market is potentially billions of dollars or tens of billions of dollars. And Perma-Fix is a very small company, and it's nice to make a couple of million or even tens of millions, but that's almost insignificant against billions. Therefore, it is possible or likely on a longer term basis that you could license this to one of the very large players. We've kept every option open on how we grow this. The first one is really obvious since we have facilities that are licensed and permitted and all this.

So all of this.

The liquids one is very simple.

Starting point for us, where we can learn more about the technology, but we are looking at all of the above.

There's a lot of onsite work it could be this process could be used that.

And and we've talked to a variety of larger companies that.

Might be interested in working with us.

Specially with the onsite market.

Yes.

Dr. Lou Senefani: So the liquids one is a very simple starting point for us, where we can learn more about the technology, but we are looking at all the above. There's a lot of on-site work that could be this process could be used at. And we've talked to a variety of larger companies that might be interested in working with us, especially in the on-site market. So yes, we're keeping all options open at the moment for how we apply this and what route we take. Okay, thank you. Thanks, Walt. Unknown Attendee.

We.

We're keeping all options open at the moment for how do we apply this.

What route we take.

Okay. Thank you.

Thanks Walter.

Your next question for today is from Brian Russo with Sidoti.

Yeah, Hi, I just wanted to follow up on the <unk> 10.

Document and grouting what are the next steps for the.

Or any milestones that we should look out for.

Not.

Bob did.

Not in terms of perma fix his role because you have a very strong position, but just timing.

Brian J. Russo: Your next question for today is from Brian Russo with Sidoti. Yeah, hi. I just wanted to follow up on the REV-10 document and grouting. What are the next steps for the DOE or any milestones that we should look out for? You know, not in terms of Perma-Fix's role, because you have a very strong position, but just timing on when, you know, this scenario could accelerate. That's a good question, Brian. What it comes down to is my...

On when.

This scenario to could it could accelerate.

So it's a good question, Brian what it comes down to is my <unk>.

Initial answer to that.

Is.

That the tank removals systems have to be procured and installed.

And.

We met with.

A firm just yesterday that is one of the players.

Players in that market.

<unk>.

Mark J. Duff: The initial answer to that is that the tank removal systems have to be procured and installed. And we met with a firm just yesterday that is one of the players in that market. And they're in competition now.

There are in competition now I think Thats I think the submental for those proposals.

And within days of now I'm not sure when exactly but we are very soon.

Then they'll make an award.

Mark J. Duff: I think the submissions for those proposals are, and within days of now, I'm not sure when exactly, but it's very, very soon, then they'll make an award, and I'm speculating on exactly the dates, but in the next several months, likely in our Q3, and then the milestones for fabrication, construction, and implementation of those removal systems will occur over the next year to use to track that is really when DOE will be capable And the interesting part is, you know, the one removal system will feed the DF Law, as I mentioned. There is an infrastructure of piping on the east side tank farms that will be used to feed the DF Law plant. On the west side tank farms, which is just about 50%, as I mentioned. There's no infrastructure, so they'll pretty much move the system from tank to tank to tank and then start pumping into toast. There is no piping infrastructure, and the totes will be delivered to the treatment facility. So it's a lot simpler, more flexible, and can move very rapidly.

Leaving on exactly the date, but you know.

And the next several months likely in our Q3.

And then the milestones for fabrication construction and implementation of those removal systems.

It will occur over the next year so the milestones.

To use the track that is really when do you will you will be capable of removing the waste and the interesting part is the one the one removal system will feature the floor as I mentioned, there is an infrastructure a piping.

Piping on the east side tank farms that will that will you be used to feed the <unk> plant on the west side tank farms, which is just above 50% as I mentioned.

No infrastructure, so those pretty much moved the system from tank to think tank.

And.

Vince are pumping into codes.

Because there's no piping infrastructure and this total will be delivered to the treatment facility.

So it's a lot simpler.

More flexible.

And can move very rapidly so I see that the primary milestones associated with that that tank removals system.

Mark J. Duff: So I see the primary milestones associated with that tank removal system that we mentioned. Okay, great. And can you just elaborate on the European expansion strategy; you mentioned the JRC earlier in the 10 million waste shipments that could ramp up, I think, later in 2024. Any more developments on the UK Westinghouse facility? We are still working towards that and working on the parameters of those agreements as well as considering other options in addition to that. We have, and are putting the agreements together with several other countries in Central Europe that also include dramatically large backlogs of waste and inventory. One thing I've learned in the last two years is that basically every power plant over there has an enormous storage building full of waste, and they've been sitting on it, waiting for a treatment facility or for a large long-term storage facility to be developed. And there's a big market in reducing this volume through incineration and significant size reduction that would save them lots of money. In other words, their storage facilities are jammed full.

We mentioned.

Okay, Great and can you just elaborate on the European expansion.

Strategy, you mentioned, the JRC earlier than the $10 million of waste shipments that could ramp up I think in later in 2024.

Any more developments on the UK Westinghouse facility.

We are still working towards that and working on the parameters of those agreements as well as considering other options. In addition to that.

We have that we're putting the agreements together with several other countries.

In Central Europe.

It also include.

Dramatically large backlogs of waste inventory one thing I've learned in the last.

Two years.

Basically every power plant over there has enormous storage building of ways.

And they've been sitting all that way.

Waiting for a treatment facility or for the.

The long term storage facility to be developed.

And.

There is a big market in reducing those volumes.

Through incineration.

Insignificant size reduction that lets save a lots of money in other words their storage facilities are jammed full.

Mark J. Duff: So we're working with individual firms and partnering with others to build a backlog, and we intend to shift that waste to Perma-Fix Northwest in the interim, and working right now with Westinghouse and other organizations over there to meet that need and thinking outside the box on how to do that. Certainly, the technology we have in the Federal Northwest Facility is very applicable, and there's a lot of interest from other companies in Europe now that are managing those wastes for their commercial clients. They have had numerous meetings in the last two months trying to address that need. So it is a very expanding market. And we continue to put bids together for other countries, as I mentioned before, Croatia, Slovenia, Norway, and throughout the UK.

But we're working with individual firms do in partnering with others.

To build a backlog and we intend to ship.

As ways to a perfect northwest.

In the interim.

And working right now with Westinghouse and other.

Organizations over there to meet that need.

And thinking outside the box on on how to do that certainly the the technology, we haven't bid on northwest facility is very applicable.

And there's a lot of interest from other.

Other companies in Europe, now that are managing those waste for their their commercial clients.

We had numerous meetings in the last two months trying to address that need. So it is a very expanding market.

And we continue to.

The bids together for other countries.

As I mentioned before Croatia, Slovenia in Norway.

And throughout the U K, so it's a it's a really growing market.

Mark J. Duff: So it's a really growing market. And, again, I have a tough time defining what that really means to us in terms of long-term revenue, but I do see that several of our agreements will be mature by Q4, and we'll start seeing shipments increase in 2025. All right, great. And then, could you share with us what the services backlog looks like as of December? Yeah, but I'm working right now. Both are

And.

Again, I have a tough time to filing what that really means to us in the long term revenue, but I do.

See that several of our agreements will be mature about it by Q4.

And we will start seeing shipments increase and 25.

Alright, Great and then lastly could you share with us what the services backlog looks like as of December.

Okay.

Yes, Mark team you read that right.

About $14 million.

Mark J. Duff: All right, great. Thank you very much. Thanks a lot.

Alright, great. Thank you very much.

Ross Taylor: Once again, if you would like to ask a question, please press star 1. Your next question for today is from Ross Taylor with ARS Investments. Thank you. First, congratulations on a surprisingly good quarter. I honestly didn't think you guys would be able to, given all the support or headwinds from the government and the like, put together a quarter like this this quarter. Great job, Jim.

Brian.

Once again, if you would like to ask a question. Please press star one.

Your next question for today is from Ross Taylor with Ari's investment.

Thank you first congratulations on a.

Surprisingly good quarter I don't know if they didn't think you guys would be able to given all of that back or headwinds from the government will likely be able to put together a quarter like this quarter. So.

Great job doing that.

Ross Taylor: A couple of things with this PFAS situation. Is your process protected by, you know, patents or other intellectual property laws? We have patents pending, as Mark said earlier, and we expect to be filing quite a few more covering the different applications as we further develop the data for the patents. So, we think they are, you know, we're in the process, they're pending at the moment, and they cover the U.S. and Europe. The applications are all then set to date in stone for both the U.S. and Europe.

Couple of things with this PFS P fast situation.

Is your process protected by patents or other intellectual property.

Laura.

We do have several patents.

Go ahead, Lou I'm, sorry, yeah, as I say.

We have patents pending.

As Mark said earlier.

We expect to be filing.

Quite a few more covering the different applications as we further develop the data for the patents.

So oh.

Okay.

We think they are in the process they are pending at the moment.

And then cover the U S and Europe.

The applications are all set to date in stone.

Dr. Lou Senefani: And then we're looking at what to do in Asia. Okay, and when you pursue these opportunities, the opportunities in that area, are you seeing this as Perma-Fix going to people, or an example like, are you going to the DoD, which has obviously a huge problem in this area and you are trying to basically get a contract with them, or are you JVing in this area? How do you see going to market with it from a Perma-Fix specific standpoint? As Mark said, initially, the focus is on liquids, whether they be out of date products or coming out of fire foam systems today or being generated by some of the separation processes that are presently being used on drinking water and other wastewaters.

For both the U S and Europe and then we're looking at what to do in Asia.

Okay, and when you pursue these opportunities the opportunities in that area.

Are you seeing this as perma fix is going to people are an example, I mean example, how are you going to the Dod which has obviously a huge problem.

In this area.

And trying.

Trying to basically get a contract with them or are you JV in this area. How do you see go into market with it from a permit specific standpoint.

As Mark said initially.

Our focus is on liquids.

Whether they be.

Out of date.

Products or coming out of fire phone systems today or being generated by some of the.

Separation processes that are presently being used on on drinking water and wastewater.

Dr. Lou Senefani: As we expand, Unknown Attendee We're somewhat open. There's an on-site market. The facilities give us a tremendous advantage. We already see PFAS liquids coming to our facilities. So it's natural that we now have it would have a destruction process to destroy them, and then Okay. So, yeah. Yeah. Now, and so, as I said, that's where you're sitting with that, and I'm just trying to get an idea of the economics at this point, being shared economics, or is this something that you actually believe that in the early stages, you're going to be able to go out, your first few wins will be Perma-Fix unique wins, where you'll be catching the whole of it, or will someone else So, are you, you know, looking to get on teams, or not?

Wastewater.

As we expand.

We're somewhat open there is present.

Great.

The facilities give us a tremendous advantage, we already see liquids P plus liquids coming to our facilities.

So it's a natural wood.

It would have a destruction process to destroy them in now.

Okay.

So yeah, yeah now.

So as I said, that's where youre sitting with that and I'm just trying to get an idea with the economics at this point.

Being shared economics or is this something that you actually believe that early stages, you're going be able to go out.

Few wins will be permanent fix unique winslow youll be catching the the whole of it or will someone else be the prime in this.

Has the government and other major players actually already started to pursue these types of cures. So are you.

Yes, I'm looking to get your hub team so.

Ross Taylor: Yeah. Yeah, we're hoping to have demonstrations for we're already in the process of discussing with DOE a demonstration project for some of their waste. So and the same with the, So that's what it's all going on right now. But again, mostly on the liquid side.

Yes, we're hoping to have demonstrations for we're already in the process discussing with D O N E.

A demonstration project for some of their waste so and the same with Vod.

So that's all going on right now, but again, mostly on the liquid side.

Dr. Lou Senefani: The next phase, the next phase will be focusing on the on-site opportunities that exist out there. And we're already starting to explore that with. Let me add to that. We have some agreements in place. They're not formal JV agreements, but we're working with several companies as partners that have access to or support clients with large inventories.

The next day, the next phase will be focusing on the on site opportunities that exist out there and we're already starting to explore that.

And with.

Okay.

If I could move.

We have some agreements in place.

They are not formal JV agreements, but we're working with several companies as partnering.

That have access or support client.

With large inventories.

Mark J. Duff: And the process we're going through right now is we're receiving samples from different clients to run through our pilot and bench scale tests to show them how well it works. That's kind of the first step is receiving samples from different people that have large backlogs of inventory and partnering with firms that we work with regularly that have clients with big backlogs. So that's kind of how we're hitting the ground running fast, building that base of inventory that will get us going. Does this process require you to have significant capital expenditures?

And for Us.

As we're going through right now is we're receiving samples.

From different clients.

To run through our pilot and bench scale test.

To show them, how how well it works.

The first step is receiving samples from different people different that have large backlogs of inventory.

Partnering with firms that we work with regularly that have clients with.

Big backlog, so that's kind of where how we're hitting the ground running fast as is.

As building that that base of inventory that we can that will get us going.

Okay does this.

<unk> require you to have significant capital expenditures is it the type of situation, where you would need to build something at each facility or is it the type of.

Dr. Lou Senefani: Is it the type of situation where you would need to build something at each facility, or is it the type of approach that allows you to effectively almost create a mobile or a somewhat mobile capability that you can move from location to location, or would you be putting it in your own locations and having the materials come to you? Yeah, initially, it's the latter. It's easy to put in a facility. It's not expensive.

Our approach that allows you to effectively almost create a mobile or a somewhat mobile K.

Capability that you can move from location to location or would you be putting it on your own locations and having the materials come to you.

Yes sure.

Go ahead Lou.

Initially it's it's.

The ladder.

It's easy to put a facility and it's not expensive.

Dr. Lou Senefani: You're basically talking about tanks, Reactor Tanks, Pressurized Tanks. Okay. Step one is to do it ourselves at our facilities, gain knowledge of the process, and at the same time, look at how it can be applied to other applications. Um, you talked about Europe, you talked about first, uh, what you see going on, you know, what the potential is out of Germany, that I think they've shut down or will have shut down all their new capacity when I would think that that would, you know, might be the biggest market available in Germany and, or in Europe or Central Europe. Can you just, am I right in that reading?

You're basically talking about tanks.

Reactor tanks at pressurized tanks so.

And step one is is do it ourselves at our facilities gained knowledge on that process.

And at the same time looking at how it can be applied to other applications.

Okay.

You talked about Europe, you talk about first.

<unk>.

What you see going on what the potential is out of Germany, I think they've shut down or will have shut down all of their new capacity.

I think that that would.

Might be the biggest market available in Germany, or in Europe, or central Europe kidney.

Am I right in that read and when we look at this the European that central European opportunity are these where youre going to have a unique JV in each country are there is there someone in in Europe.

Ross Taylor: And when we look at this German, European, and Central European opportunity, are these where you're going to have a unique JV in each country? Is there someone in Europe who, you know, is the leading player in this, and you'll work with them to pursue these opportunities? How does, once again, like your go-to-market approach in Europe? Yeah, we have we're working in fact, I'm at a conference this week in Phoenix working with several different entities in Europe that are that are here to participate, attend the conference. There isn't a central organization; there is you, and you correct Germany is pretty much the largest, near-term market as they're decommissioning.

The leading player in this and you'll work with them to pursue these opportunities how does much again like you'll go to market approach in Europe.

Yeah, we have we're working in fact at a conference this week in Phoenix working.

With several different entities in Europe.

That are here participate just bringing the conference.

There isn't a central organization there is.

And you're correct, Germany.

Pretty much the largest.

Near term market.

Mark J. Duff: I think they have 17 reactors. They're all in different phases of decommissioning. And they are all generating waste as they decommission, as well as significant volumes of waste and storage. And Germany is building a very large long-term storage facility in a former iron mine in Germany that has a very specific acceptance criteria that they have to meet to get their waste into that facility. So what we're offering to different clients in Germany is the ability to treat that waste, reduce the volume, i.e., reducing the storage footprint they need to get it in, and make it stable to meet that criteria.

As the decommissioning of <unk>.

17 reactors that are all in different phases of decommissioning.

And they all are generating waste as they decommission.

As well as our significant volumes of waste and storage.

And Germany is building a very large long term storage facility.

Former Iron mine.

In Germany, there's a very specific.

Acceptance criteria.

They have to meet to get their waste into the facility. So what we're offering.

Two.

The different clients in Germany is the ability to treat that waste reduce the volume.

Reducing the storage footprint they need to get it in.

And.

Making it stable to meet that criteria.

Mark J. Duff: So we're in the process of working with them. There are several organizations involved, and there are numerous waste streams, some that we wouldn't deal with, and there's a lot that we would. So we're working through that right now. In regards to joint ventures, it'll be more like partnerships and agreements, and unlike the Westinghouse situation, which is a joint venture, but these are all part of the offering we have through Westinghouse and through other organizations as well, depending on what the waste stream looks like. And it's really kind of unfolding at this point, but all pointing towards the early 25 to get rolling.

So we're in the process of working with several organizations involved.

And.

There's numerous waste streams them that we would deal with.

And there's a lot that we would so we're working through that right now.

The JV it'll be more like partnerships and agreements and unlike the Westinghouse situation, which is a JV.

But those are all part of the offering we have through Westinghouse and through other organizations as well depending on what the waste stream looks like.

And it's really kind of unfolding at this point, but all pointing towards.

Early 'twenty five to get rolling.

Ross Taylor: Okay, um, and just real quick, one last, just going back over and looking at DF law. What's the correlation between revenues for you and operations for the vitrification plant? You know, how quickly do you start to see cash flow from that once they start to get it up? Are they currently operating it at a low level? And are you seeing some, some, process, or some materials come through that and kind of as it works? I think they have two melters, so the thought would be they start one melter and then they start the second melter at a point after that, is that how it's going to play?

Okay.

And just a real quick one last just going back over and looking at DS law.

What is the correlation between revenues for you and.

Operations for the Vitrification plant is.

How quickly do you start to see cash flow from that once they start to get it up are they currently operating at a low level and are you seeing some some.

Process or some materials come through that and kind of as it work I think they have about two <unk>. So the thought would be they start one melter in then.

Start the second melter.

At a point after that is that how it's going to play.

Mark J. Duff: Yeah, they're going through what they call cold commissioning right now, which is as opposed to hot commissioning. In hot commissioning, they'll use some radioactive surrogates to begin to run through the system. Right now, I just kind of give you a schedule. The schedule is not defined very well by DOE.

Going through the cold cold commissioning right now which is.

As opposed to hot commissioning hot commissioning they'll use some radioactive surrogates.

To begin to run through the system right now just kind of give you a schedule schedules not defined very well by the way they have a very hard and fast agreement.

Mark J. Duff: They have a very hard and fast agreement that's really well defined to have the plant operational, fully operational, I should not take it back, operational, which means they have to be vitrifying waste by August 25. The U.N. intends to beat that. They've said that publicly numerous times, and at that point in time...

Really.

Well defined to have the plant operational fully operational.

Goodbye operational which means they have to be petrifying waste by August 25.

Do you intend to beat that they've said that publicly in numerous times.

And that at that point in time.

Mark J. Duff: It'll be generating waste, depending on how many melters are going, only up to the 8,000 yards a year that I mentioned. However... We fully intend that as they go through hot commissioning and start adding radioactive surrogates to the glass, they'll generate waste on that as well. So we anticipate that beginning earlier in 2025 as they demonstrate the technology and the whole process overall. They'll start generating smaller amounts of waste, you know, in the scheme of things. But we see a ramping up through the year and by the end of 2025, certainly. We would expect both melters to be operating and at the annualized rate of the S zone, which is 8,000 yards, or actually cubic meters. Okay. So by the end of 25, you would think you'd be at run rate. There was some talk, I believe, in the Seattle publication that you might see something, they might see something come out of that in late 24. Is that just a pipe dream?

It'll be generating depending on how many motors are going in wave two.

The eight to 8000 yards a year that I mentioned however.

We fully intend that as they go through hot commissioning and start adding a radioactive serious to the glass.

That they'll generate waste on that as well so we anticipate that to begin earlier.

Earlier in 'twenty five.

Does it do the demonstration.

The technology and the whole process overall.

Generating smaller amount of waste.

And the.

In the scheme of things, but we.

We see it ramping up through the year and by the end of 'twenty five certainly.

Well, we would expect both multiple will be operating and be at the annualized rate of the.

<unk>, which is the 8000 yard.

Cubic meters.

Okay. So by the by the end of 'twenty five you would think you'd be at run rate. There was some talk I believe in the Seattle publication that you might see something they might see something come out of that and in late 'twenty or is that just a pipe dream.

Ross Taylor: I did see that too, and I don't know where this is getting its numbers from, but it's very difficult. Unknown Attendee, Steve Fein, Klea Theoharis, Perma-Fix Environmental Services Inc. They're working very well. They're very excited about meeting the milestones as they meet with the melters. They're actually working as anticipated, but they do have a long ways to go before they get to full operation. They go through a lot of readiness reviews, like any nuclear plant starting up, which takes a lot of effort and is very difficult. Having said that, Ross, I really believe that, you know, anything before the first quarter of 25 would be, It would be shocking to me, but they might be able to get started. It's hard to say.

I'd see that too.

I don't know where this is getting his numbers from very difficult B, we intentionally.

Avoids committing these things.

Because.

Like investing.

The convention you can because he can be held accountable for your performance.

But the bottom line is that.

They are working very well they are very excited about meeting the milestones are meeting with the melter is actually actually working as anticipated.

But do you have a long ways to go before they get the full operations as we go through a lot of readiness reviews like any nuclear plants, starting up which takes a lot of effort.

And is very difficult.

Having said that Ross I would I really believe that.

Our.

Anything before the first quarter of 'twenty five would be.

Uh huh.

It would be shocking to me, but they might they might be able to get started.

Sorry to say.

Mark J. Duff: Okay, and I'll leave it with, once again, congratulations and a new CTAS opportunity out of the blue, but really exciting. And just generally, as you said, it looks like we're setting up for not only exciting but quite profitable at 25. So the road's been longer than people hoped for, but it looks like you're well on your way to it. Thank you. Yeah, we've been very nervous about launching the PFAS status until we got through our bench scale and had it independently or result independently validated by a third party.

Okay, and I'll leave it with that can once again, congratulations and best of luck.

Gas opportunity out of the blue, but really exciting and just generally as you said it looks like we're setting up for a really.

Not only exciting but quite profitable at $25.

The roads.

People hoped for but it looks like Youre well on your way on it. Thank you.

Yeah, we've been we've been very nervous.

<unk> about launching the <unk> status until we got through our bench scale and had an independently are result of independently validated by a third party.

Mark J. Duff: And so this is really an exciting time for us to be able to, Yeah, thanks. We have reached the end of the question and answer session, and I will now turn the call over to management for closing remarks. All right, thank you.

And.

So we're really this is an exciting time for us to be able to mention it.

Thank you.

We have reached the end of the question and answer session and I will now turn the call over to management for closing remarks.

Mark J. Duff: I'd like to thank everyone for participating in our fourth quarter and year-end conference call. Hopefully, after this call, you will share our enthusiasm and confidence in the outlook for the business over the next few years. We look forward to providing further updates as we continue to execute on our strategy. We appreciate the continued support and patience of our shareholders, and we look forward to providing further updates as developments unfold. Thank you. This concludes today's conference, and you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

Alright, Thank you I'd like to thank everyone for participating on our fourth quarter and year end conference call.

After this call you share our enthusiasm and confidence in the outlook for the business over the next few years.

Look forward to providing further updates as we continue to execute on our strategy. We appreciate the continued support and patience of our.

Our shareholders and we look forward to providing further updates as developments unfold. Thank you.

This concludes today's conference and you may disconnect. Your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.