Q4 2023 Better Home & Finance Holding Co Earnings Call

Operator: Good morning, my name is Krista, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Better Home and Finance 4th Quarter and Full Year 2023 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise.

Good morning, My name is Krista and I will be your conference operator today at this time I would like to welcome everyone to the better home and finance fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings conference call.

Krista: All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during that time simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad and if you'd like to withdraw that question again press star widen. Thank you I will now turn the conference over.

Operator: After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during that time, simply press star followed by the number 1 on your telephone keypad. And if you'd like to withdraw that question, again, press star 1.

Hannah Kozla: Thank you. I will now turn the conference over to Hannah Kozla, Vice President of Corporate Finance and Investor Relations. Hannah, you may begin your conference. Welcome to Better Home and Finance Holding Company's fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings conference call. My name is Hana Khosla, and I am the Vice President of Corporate Finance and Investor Relations at Better. Joining me on today's call are Vishal Garg, Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Better, and Kevin Ryan, President and Chief Financial Officer of Better. Certain statements we make today may constitute forward-looking statements that are subject to risks, uncertainties, and other factors, as discussed further in our SEC filing, that could cause our actual results to differ materially from our historical results. We assume no responsibility to update forward-looking statements other than as required by law.

Krista: <unk> Hana Coleslaw, Vice President of corporate Finance and Investor Relations Hana you May begin your conference.

Hana Coleslaw: Welcome to better home in finance, holding company's fourth quarter and full year.

Hana Coleslaw: Earnings Conference call My name is Hannah.

Hana Coleslaw: I am the vice President of corporate Finance and Investor Relations.

Hana Coleslaw: Joining me on today's call are <unk>, founder and Chief Executive Officer of butter, and Kevin Ryan President and Chief Financial Officer.

Hana Coleslaw: Certain statements we make today may constitute forward looking statements that are subject to risks uncertainties and other factors as discussed further in our SEC filings that could cause our actual results to differ materially from our historical results.

Hana Coleslaw: We assume no responsibility to update forward looking statements other than as required by law.

Hannah Kozla: During today's discussion, management will discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures which we believe are relevant in assessing the company's financial performance. These non-GAAP financial measures should not be considered replacements for and should be read together with our GAAP report. These non-GAAP financial measures are reconciled to GAAP financial measures in today's earnings release, which is available on the Investor Relations section of Better's website, and when filed in our annual report on Form 10-K, filed with the SEC. Amounts described as of and for the year ended December 31, 2023 represent a preliminary estimate as of the date of this earnings release and may be revised upon filing our annual report on Form 10-K with the FDC. More information as of and for the year ended December 31st, 2023 will be provided upon filing our annual report on Form 10-K with the FCC. I will now turn the call over to Hana. Thank you, Hana, and welcome to our fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings call. We appreciate everyone joining us today.

Hana Coleslaw: During today's discussion management will discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures, which we believe are relevant in assessing the company's financial performance.

Hana Coleslaw: These non-GAAP financial measures should not be considered replaces four and should be read together with our GAAP results.

Hana Coleslaw: These non-GAAP financial measures are reconciled to GAAP financial measures in today's earnings release, which is available on the Investor Relations section of better some site and when filed our annual report on Form 10-K filed with the SEC.

Hana Coleslaw: <unk> described as of and for the year ended December 31, 2023 represent a preliminary estimate as of the date of this earnings release and maybe revised upon filing our annual report on Form 10-K, with the SEC more information as of and for the year ended December 31 2000 from equally.

Hana Coleslaw: <unk> will be provided upon filing our annual report on Form 10-K, with the SEC I will now turn the call over to Vishal.

Vishal: Thank you Anna and welcome to our fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings call. We appreciate everyone joining us today.

Vishal Garg: I'd like to start by recapping some of our major accomplishments in 2020. First, we listed on the NASDAQ stock market as a public company in Q3 2023 and ended the year with approximately $554 million of cash, restricted cash, and short-term investments, which allows us to strategically execute against our corporate objectives. Second, throughout the year, we've been laser focused on prioritizing expense reductions and improving our unit economics while continuing to invest in the proprietary technology that underlies our competitive advantage. We have reduced total expenses by approximately 71% year-on-year and by over $1.1 billion since 2021.

I'd like to start by recapping some of our major accomplishments in 2023.

Vishal: We listed on the NASDAQ stock market as a public company in Q3, 2023 and ended the year with approximately $554 million of cash restricted cash and short term investments, which allows us to strategically execute against our corporate objectives.

Vishal: Throughout the year, we've been laser focused on prioritizing expense reductions and improving our unit economics, while continuing to invest in the proprietary technology that underlies our competitive advantage.

Vishal: We reduced total expenses by approximately 71% year on year and by over $1 $1 billion since 2021.

Vishal Garg: Specifically, year-over-year in 2023, our mortgage platform expenses declined 74%, marketing and advertising expenses declined 68%, technology and product development expenses declined 32%, and general and administrative expenses declined 22%, although the expense decline was partially offset by the increased cost of going public. As the mortgage market is showing early signs of strengthening in the first half of 2024, we are leaning into certain growth expenses to drive increased market share and efficiency, balance with continued disciplined cost management to target reaching the possibility in the median. Third, we expanded our B2B, or as we call it, mortgage-as-a-service channel with the addition of new partners, including Infosys and most recently, Beyond.com, which launched in the first For those newer to our story, I'd like to provide a background on the company, our mission, proprietary solution, and competitive advantage. Better was founded to fundamentally transform the entire homeownership process through the use of technology by delivering the best experience to consumers at the lowest cost.

Vishal: Typically year over year in 2023, our mortgage platform expenses declined 74% marketing and advertising expenses declined 68% technology and product development expenses declined, 32% and general and administrative expenses declined 22%, where the expense decline was partially offset by increased cost of going public.

Vishal: As the mortgage market is showing early signs of strengthening in the first half of 2024, we are leaning into certain growth expenses and drive increased market share and efficiencies balanced with continued disciplined cost management to target reaching ability in the medium term.

Vishal: Third we expanded our BBB or as we call. It mortgages. The service channel with the addition of new partners, including Infosys and most recently beyond Dot Com, which launched in the first quarter of 2024.

None: For those newer to our story I'd like to provide a background of the company our mission proprietary solution and competitive advantage.

None: <unk> was founded to fundamentally transform the entire homeownership process through the use of technology by delivering the best experience to consumers at the lowest cost our mission is to make homeownership better faster and cheaper by building a proprietary end to end technology platform that automate and revolutionizing the experience of finding financing and selling a home.

Vishal Garg: Our mission is to make homeownership better, faster, and cheaper by building a proprietary end-to-end technology platform that automates and revolutionizes the experience of finding, financing, and selling a home. Since our founding in 2016, we've achieved over $100 billion in loan origination volumes entirely digitally, and at our peak in 2021, reached nearly 2% of the refinance market share through our online frictionless consumer interface. We have since also proven that our platform enables a seamless digital purchase experience with purchase loans now making up 91% of our volume in 2020. Our proprietary technology powers multiple product solutions across the mortgage, real estate, and insurance verticals, with more products launching frequently, including recent launches of digital VA loans, one-day mortgage, and one-day e-loans. The home finance market is enormous, with annual spend on average around $3 trillion per year through market cycles and a strong mega trend toward digitization with consumers seeking price transparency and convenience.

None: Since our founding in 2016, we've achieved over $100 billion in loan origination volume entirely digitally and at our peak in 2021 reached nearly 2% of refinance market share through our online frictionless consumer interface.

None: We have also proven that our platform enables a seamless digital purchase experience with purchase loans now, making up 91% of our volume in 2023.

None: Our proprietary technology powers multiple product solutions across the mortgage real estate and insurance vertical with more product launching frequently including recent launches of digital VA loans, one day mortgage and one day before.

None: The whole finance market is enormous with annual spend on average around three trillion per year through market cycles, and our strong mega trend towards digitization with consumers seeking price transparency and convenience.

Vishal Garg: We believe our product is highly aligned to where the market is going, yet we are penetrating less than half of the market share today, leaving tremendous room for long-term growth. At our core, we're seeking to disrupt an antiquated process that is manual, costly, slow, and complicated by leveraging our proprietary technology platform, TinMan. We aim to reduce the cost of producing a loan and create a single one-stop shop platform with multiple home ownership products embedded into a highly automated single flow from lead to fund, allowing us to pass through savings from automation to our customers in the form of lower rates and faster turnaround. In fact, from 2018 to 2023, Better's average rate for a 30-year Fannie Finn Forming Loan was approximately 6% lower than the industry average, saving customers real money on each payment they make through the life of their loan.

None: We believe our product is highly aligned to where the market is going yet we are penetrating less than half a percent market share today, leaving tremendous room for long term growth.

None: At our core we're seeking to disrupt an antiquated process, which is manual costly slow and complicated by leveraging our proprietary technology platform tender, we aim to reduce the cost to produce alone and create a single one stop shop platform with multiple homeownership product embedded into a highly automated single floor from lead to fund, allowing us to pass through savings from auto.

None: <unk> to our customers in the form of lower rates and faster turnaround time.

None: In fact from 2018 to 2023 betters average rate for 30 year, Fannie conforming loan was approximately 6% lower than the industry average saving customers' real money on each payment they make to the life of their loss.

Vishal Garg: In addition, our business model is balance sheet and credit risk light, with 96% of our loans produced in 2023 excluding HELOC loans eligible for purchase by the GSA. I'll now turn to our three strategic priorities for 2024. Our first priority is thoughtfully leaning into growth amid a more favorable macro environment than we saw in 2020. Our second priority is improving operational efficiency and further diversifying our origination. Our third priority is adding new B2B channel partners, enabling us to further leverage our industry-leading technology. Now to dive further into, Starting with our first priority of leaning into growth, over the past two years, we have been intensely focused on significantly reducing expenses and maximizing corporate efficiency in a highly challenging macro environment. With signs that the mortgage market is beginning to turn, it's time for us to thoughtfully lean into growth to make sure we are ready when consumer demand returns and that we capture increased market share across purchase, rebuy, and refinance.

None: Further our business model and balance sheet and credit risk like with 96% of our alone produced in 2023, excluding HELOC loans eligible for purchase by the GSE.

None: I'll now turn to our three strategic priorities for 2024, our first priority is thoughtfully leaning into growth amid a more favorable macro environment than we saw in 2023 or.

None: Our second priority is improving operational efficiency and further variable life, our origination expenses.

None: Our third priority is adding new <unk> channel partners, enabling us to further leverage our industry leading technology.

None: Now to dive further into each.

None: Starting with our first priority of leaning into growth over the past two years, we have been intensely focused on significantly reducing expenses and maximizing corporate efficiency during a highly challenging macro environment with.

None: With signs that the mortgage market is beginning to turn as time for us to thoughtfully lean into growth to make sure. We are ready when consumer demand returns and that we capture increased market share across purchase we buy a lot.

None: Specifically for purchase we're focusing on growing our real estate agent relationships as they are key to the consumer experience.

Vishal Garg: Specifically for Purchase, we're focusing on growing our real estate agent relationships as they are key to the consumer experience. We partner with local agents and other local service providers involved in the home purchasing process and bring them into the better ecosystem. Once we establish trust with agents, they're more likely to help us convert the customer to better because they have confidence that the mortgage will close.

None: We partner with local agents and other local service providers involved in the whole purchasing process and bring them into the better ecosystem. Once we establish trust with agents, they're more likely to help us convert the customer to better because they have confidence that the mortgage will quote.

None: As mentioned last quarter. We are also piloting a program called better do it we're really valuable third party real estate agents to become loan officers and grow their revenue base, while still very early from a financial perspective dual Aegean enrollment is scaling favorably going from 12, producing agents in Q4 of 2023 to <unk> 48, producing agents in Q1 2020 for demonstrating the demand for me.

Vishal Garg: As mentioned last quarter, we are also piloting a program called BetterDuo, where we enable third-party real estate agents to become loan officers and grow their revenue. While still very early from a financial perspective, dual agent enrollment is scaling favorably, going from 12 producing agents in Q4 of 2023 to 48 producing agents in Q1 of 2024, demonstrating demand from agents for the additional revenue generation opportunities provided by this. Another critical driver of growth has been a fundamental change in our commercial operating. Specifically, we have begun hiring experienced loan officers on commission-based compensation plans, a significant deviation from our prior compensation plans, which had higher fixed cost components and no commission. In the past, we have also hired relative newcomers to the industry who we would train to become loan officers.

None: Just with the additional revenue generation opportunities provided by this program.

None: Another critical driver of growth has been a fundamental change in our commercial operating model specifically, we have begun hiring an experienced loan officers on commission based compensation plan, a significant deviation from our prior compensation plans, which had higher fixed cost components and no commissions.

None: In the past we have also hired relative newcomers to the industry. When we were trained to become loan officers, whereas now we are hiring seasoned purchased loan officers with experienced nurturing customers through higher rate environment.

None: We are pleased to see early conversion improvements from this new operating model and the season sales talent, we're hiring as well as better alignment between our production output and costs further the seasoned loan officers are providing an increased level of service to consumers that enables us to improve revenue per loan while remaining market competitive.

None: Through better history, we have been the low cost provider to the consumer, but we see significant opportunity to increase our gain on sale margins, while still remaining highly cost competitive as well as limited concessions offered to customers through our improved service.

Vishal Garg: Whereas now, we are hiring seasoned loan officers with experience nurturing customers through higher rate environments. We are pleased to see early conversion improvements from this new operating model and the seasoned sales talent we are hiring, as well as better alignment between our production output and cost. Further, the seasonal loan officers are providing an increased level of service to consumers that enables us to improve revenue per loan while remaining market competitive. Through better history, we have been the low-cost provider to the consumer, but we see a significant opportunity to increase our gain-on-sale margins while still remaining highly cost-competitive as well as limit concessions offered to customers through our improved service. The second priority is operational efficiency and maximizing loan production.

None: The second priority is operational efficiency and variable is the loan production expense.

None: As mentioned, we have adopted a new operating model and compensation structure for the majority of our sales team with lower basis, and higher commissions to better align costs with volumes and drive conversion Alpha. We are additionally, increasing customer acquisition expenses in a highly programmatic and controlled manner predominantly through digital performance marketing on existing and new channels.

None: Across our acquisition channels, we have the ability to immediately measure and review ROI on acquisition spend and modulate spend up or down based on performance.

Our third priority is adding new BW partnerships to our <unk> mortgages, a service distribution channel, we continue to see demand for our technology and origination capabilities from new partners with strong brands, who are looking to offer mortgages to their customers in a cost efficient way we're.

None: We're pleased to have announced new relationships with infosys and beyond enabling them to provide their customers with a seamless digital mortgage and home equity loan experiences.

Vishal Garg: As mentioned, we've adopted a new operating model and compensation structure for the majority of our sales team with lower bases and higher commissions to better align costs with volumes and drive conversion outcomes. We are additionally increasing customer acquisition expenses in a highly programmatic and controlled manner, predominantly through digital performance marketing on existing and new channels. Across our acquisition channels, we have the ability to immediately measure and review ROI and acquisition spend and modulate spend up or down based on performance. Our third priority is adding new B2B partnerships to our B2B Mortgage-as-a-Servant distribution channel. We continue to see demand for our technology and origination capabilities from new partners with strong brands who are looking to offer mortgages to their customers in a cost-efficient way. We're pleased to have announced new relationships with Infosys and beyond, enabling them to provide their customers with a seamless digital mortgage and home equity loan experience.

None: While both of these partnerships are just beginning we believe their interest as well as other pipeline conversations we are having demonstrated strong product market fit for our <unk> offerings and demand for our technology.

None: Looking beyond 2020 for the medium term opportunity is exciting we remain focused on enhancing our go to market and continuing to invest in automation through the cycle.

None: For our go to market, we aim to continue improving customer conversion, especially converting website visitors into funded loan customers and expand customer acquisition, we have new marketing channels and adding new partnerships we.

We continue investing in payment to improve the customer experience and further drive down labor cost, making our platform more efficient and scalable and enabling us to drive our customers with lower rate higher approvals and faster certainty.

None: <unk>, which powers, our highly differentiated competitive advantage and drives our better faster and cheaper customer experience.

None: In summary, we have a large and attractive market opportunity a track record of knowing how to scale for growth when the market environment permit and how to reduce expenses. When it does a business model that is balance sheet and credit risk like a competitive advantage powered by our technology and industry, leading products and our medium term plan for growth and profitability and a healthy cash position.

Vishal Garg: While both these partnerships are just beginning, we believe their interests, as well as other pipeline conversations we are having, demonstrate a strong product market fit for our B2B offerings and demand for our technology. Looking beyond 2024, the medium-term opportunity is exciting. We remain focused on enhancing our go-to-market and continuing to invest in automation through the summer. For our go-to-market, we aim to continue improving customer conversion, especially converting website visitors into funded loan customers, and expand customer acquisition via new marketing channels and adding new partners. We continue investing in Tin Man to improve the customer experience and further drive down labor costs, making our platform more efficient and scalable and enabling us to provide our customers with lower rates, higher approvals, and faster service.

None: Let me now turn it over to Kevin Ryan, Our President and Chief Financial Officer, who will discuss our quarterly performance and our financial strategy Kevin.

Kevin Ryan: Thank you Michelle.

Kevin Ryan: Our 2023, we were laser focused on improving corporate efficiency and raising and preserving capital we deliberately pulled back on volumes by throttling expenses to prioritize profitability in a highly challenging environment characterized by high interest rates and reduced home sales.

Kevin Ryan: We succeeded in raising that capital we believe that beginning in 2024, the backdrop for mortgage lending is beginning to turn in the corner, but this improvement will take time, we believe the cycle has bottomed and we accordingly expect to thoughtfully lean into growth in 2024 to drive increased market share and efficiency.

Kevin Ryan: Balanced with continued cost discipline to target reaching profitability in the medium term.

Kevin Ryan: In summary, we have a large and attractive market opportunity, a track record of knowing how to scale for growth when the market or environment permits it, and how to reduce expenses when it doesn't. A business model that is balance sheet and credit risk light, a competitive advantage powering prior technology and industry leading products, and a medium-term plan for growth and profitability and a healthy cash flow. Let me now turn it over to Kevin Ryan, our President and Chief Financial Officer, who will discuss the quarterly performance and our financial strategy. Kevin?

Kevin Ryan: During the fourth quarter of 2023, we generated funded loan volume of $527 million. This beat the guidance, we communicated on our Q3 earnings call of approximately $500 million.

Kevin Ryan: We generated revenue of approximately $9 million in the quarter and adjusted EBITDA loss improved to $26 million on.

Kevin Ryan: On our third quarter earnings call, we had guided that we expect adjusted EBITDA to improve in Q4 versus Q3 and it did by approximately 50%. So we reduced our losses by approximately 50%.

Kevin Ryan: Our fourth quarter volume was 49% generated through our direct to consumer channel and 51% through our B to B channel and was 91% purchase loans, 5% refinance loans and the remainder was HELOC dollar volume, excluding HELOC and the fourth quarter, 83% of our direct.

Kevin Ryan: Thank you, Vishal. Throughout 2023, we were laser focused on improving corporate efficiency and raising and preserving capital. We can liberally pull back on volumes by throttling expenses to prioritize profitability in a highly challenging environment characterized by high interest rates and reduced home sales. We succeeded in raising that capital. We believe that beginning in 2024, the backdrop for mortgage lending is beginning to turn a new corner, but this improvement will take time. We believe the cycle has bottomed, and accordingly, we accordingly expect a thoughtfully lean into growth in 2024 to drive increased market share and efficiency, balanced with continued cost discipline to target reaching profitability in the medium term. During the fourth quarter of 2023, we generated a funded loan volume of $527 million. This beats the guidance we communicated on our Q3 earnings call of approximately $500 million. We generated revenue of approximately $9 million in the quarter, and our adjusted EBITDA loss improved to $26 million.

Kevin Ryan: The consumer channel loans, where one day mortgage loans, where we generate a commitment to the customer within one day.

Kevin Ryan: For full year 2023, we had funded loan volume 3 billion revenue of approximately $77 million and.

Kevin Ryan: And the adjusted EBITDA loss of approximately $163 million.

Kevin Ryan: Our full year 2023 volume was 55% generated through direct to consumer and 45% to be debated.

Kevin Ryan: Total expenses in 2023 declined by approximately 71% year over year. So we cut expenses, 71% for full year 2023, our net loss improved approximately 39% year over year and our adjusted EBITDA loss improved approximately 69% year over year.

None: Now, let's touch briefly on our balance sheet and capital positioning.

None: As you know we became a public company in Q3 of 2023 <unk>.

None: Having raised approximately $565 million of capital from the go public transaction.

None: We ended the fourth quarter of 2023 with $554 million of cash restricted cash and short term investments. This is a 60% increase compared to year end 2022.

Kevin Ryan: On our third quarter earnings call, we had guided that we expected adjusted EBITDA to improve in Q4 versus Q3, and it did by approximately 50%. Consequently, we reduced our losses by approximately 50%. Our fourth-quarter volume was 49% generated through our direct-to-consumer channel and 51% through our B2B channel, with 91% purchase loans, 5% refinance loans, and the remainder was HELOC dollar bonds. Excluding HELOC in the fourth quarter, 83% of our direct-to-consumer channel loans were one-day mortgage loans, where we generate a commitment to the customer within one day. For full year 2023, we had funded volume of $3 billion, revenue of approximately $77 million, and an adjusted EBITDA loss of approximately $163 million. Our full year 2023 volume was 55% generated through direct-to-consumer and 45% through B2B. Total expenses in 2023 declined by approximately 71% year-over-year, so we cut expenses by 71%.

None: In short we funded the balance sheet.

None: We're now well capitalized for growth as our cash position provides us with the liquidity can do continue executing against our vision and corporate objectives.

None: In addition, we retained strong relationships with our financing counterparties to manage mortgage working capital even in this low volume environment as of December 31, 2023, we had three warehouse facilities for total capacity of $425 million.

None: Now, let's look forward to 2024 as Vishal said, we plan to lean into an improving market and growth to drive increased market share and efficiency.

None: This will be balanced by continued cost discipline with target reaching profitability in the medium term.

None: As I said before we believe the mortgage cycle has now bottomed and according to the MBA and Fannie Mae the refinance market is expected to approximately double by 2025.

None: Therefore, we expect our funded loan volume to increase in 2024 as compared to 2023 volume will be up this year as we prudently increased customer acquisition spend in the highest returning channels to drive increased volume throughout the purchase season, which is upcoming and increase our origination capacity.

Kevin Ryan: For full year 2023, our net loss improved approximately 39% year-over-year, and our adjusted EBITDA loss improved approximately 69% year-over-year. Now, let's touch briefly on our balance sheet and capital position. As you know, we became a public company in Q3 of 2023, having raised approximately $565 million of capital from the GoPublic transaction. We ended the fourth quarter of 2023 with $554 million of cash, restricted cash, and short-term investments.

None: For higher volumes through limited hiring in production roles.

None: We specifically expect our HELOC volume to increase in 2024, compared with 2023 on the back of increasing spend on HELOC marketing and HELOC production capacity.

None: For the first quarter of 2024, we expect to generate funded loan volume of approximately $600 million to $650 million. This will be a quarter over quarter increase of between 14 and 23%. This is obviously as compared to the fourth quarter of 2023.

Kevin Ryan: This is a 60% increase compared to year-end 2022. In short, we funded the balance. We are now well-capitalized for growth as our cash position provides us with the liquidity to continue executing against our vision and corporate objectives. In addition, we retain strong relationships with our financing counterparties to manage mortgage working capital, even in this low volume environment. As of December 31, 2023, we had three warehouse facilities for a total capacity of $425 million.

None: We continue to have a keen focus on cost management in 2024, including the continued reduction of corporate overhead vendor costs and cost reductions due to further automation as.

None: As a result of increased growth expenses offset by continued expense reductions we expect that our total expenses will be approximately flat in 2024 as compared to 2023.

Therefore, we're going to hold our expenses flat, while we grow our volumes lastly, we expect conversion to improve with continued investments in tin man.

None: The increased variable component of the sales compensation plan that Michelle laid out improved purchase product offerings investments in our real estate agent relationships.

Kevin Ryan: Now let's look forward to 2024. As Ashal said, we plan to lean into an improving market and growth to drive increased market share and efficiency. This will be balanced by continued cost discipline and a target of reaching profitability in the medium term. As I said before, we believe the mortgage cycle has now bottomed, and according to the NBA and Fannie Mae, the refinance market is expected to approximately double by 2025.

None: And finally, we are well aware that the stock's been below a one dollar for some time and we will address that to preserve our listing we are evaluating potential measures to increase the price of our class a common stock, including fluctuating one and more reverse stock splits to be authorized at our upcoming annual meeting.

None: I will now turn the call back to the operator for Q&A.

None: Thank you as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question. Please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.

Kevin Ryan: Therefore, we expect our funded loan volume to increase in 2024 as compared to 2023. Volume will therefore be up this year as we prudently increase customer acquisition spend in the highest returning channels to drive increased volume throughout the purchase season, which is upcoming, and increase our origination capacity for higher volumes through limited hiring and production roles. We specifically expect our HELOC volume to increase in 2024 compared to 2023 on the back of increasing spend on HELOC marketing and HELOC production capacity. For the first quarter of 2024, we expect to generate funded loan volume of approximately $600 to $650 million. This will be a quarter-over-quarter increase of between 14 and 23 percent, obviously as compared to the fourth quarter of 2023.

None: I would like to withdraw your question again press Star one.

None: Also ask that you limit yourself to one question and one follow up and for any additional questions. Please re queue.

None: Your first question comes from the line of Ryan Tomasello from K B W. Please go ahead.

Ryan Tomasello: Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking the questions.

Good morning, Amit.

Ryan Tomasello: Good morning, just wanted to start on the operating model changes that you elaborated on some of this you already addressed in your prepared remarks, but just.

Ryan Tomasello: If you can expand upon what drove that pivot.

Ryan Tomasello: And also help us understand really how this differs from the existing model.

Ryan Tomasello: Were you more so leaning on.

Ryan Tomasello: What you guys tend to refer as customer service reps that are not on a commission based model.

Kevin Ryan: We continue to have a keen focus on cost management in 2024, including the continued reduction of corporate overhead, vendor costs, and cost reductions due to further automation. As a result of increased growth expenses offset by continued expense reductions, we expect that our total expenses will be approximately flat in 2024 as compared to 2023. Therefore, we're going to hold our expenses flat while we grow our volumes. Lastly, we expect conversion to improve with continued investments in FinMAN, the increased variable component of the sales compensation plan that Michelle laid out, improved purchase product offerings, and investments in our real estate agent relationship. And finally, we're well aware that the stock's been below a dollar for some time, and we will address that to reserve our list. We are evaluating potential measures to increase the price of our Class A common stock, including effectuating one or more reverse stock splits to be authorized at our upcoming annual meeting. I will now turn the call back to the operator for Q&A. Thank you.

Ryan Tomasello: You're still intending to lean into those fixed.

Ryan Tomasello: Cost customer service reps, what are the hiring plans for the commission base loan officer count.

Ryan Tomasello: Going forward.

None: That's a great question.

None: I can provide some context basically.

None: Better has really done an amazing job of getting customers.

None: To come to better and get Preapproved, we had over.

None: Almost 20000 application starts and that's $8 billion or so if you think of an average home about.

None: Our mortgage value of $400000 and yet we're funding less than 10% of those when you look across the industry.

None: People are funding our competitors are funding at 20% to 40%.

None: When we're finding it less than 10% of applications.

None: And we've been racking our brains and last year was the first year, we've really been into purchases.

None: Non commission model work really well for refinance sale, because that's a product of where you have a very.

None: Small gestation period for a lead like your average lead coming in turning into a pre approval turning into a lock is it's two day, whereas in a purchase transaction that gestation periods could take six months to 18 months, depending on how long it takes to find the house for the consumer and what we.

Operator: As a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you'd like to withdraw your question, again press star one. We also ask that you limit yourself to one question and one follow-up, and for any additional questions, please re-queue. Your first question comes from the line of Ryan Tomasello from KBW. Please go ahead.

None: Realized was that our customer service oriented purchase salespeople were not doing certain things that really are necessary to nurture them.

Ryan Tomasello: Hi everyone, thanks for taking the question. Just on the morning, just wanted to start on the operating model changes that you elaborated on, some of this you already addressed in your prepared remarks, but just if you could expand upon what drove that pivot and also help us understand really how this differs from the existing model where you're more so leaning. I guess what you guys tend to refer to as customer service reps that are not on a commission-based model. Are you still intending to lean into those fixed cost customer service reps? What are the hiring plans for the commission-based loan officer? Uh, that's a great question. Um, I can provide some context.

None: The customer all the way through their homeownership journey.

None: We started a pilot and said look we've been in noncommissioned shop for eight years, what can we do differently and one of the things that we had really bad debt.

None: What was sort of a holy Grail for US was the no commissions and we said well are we doing the wrong thing here.

None: Should we test.

Small commission loan officer pilot, that's similar to that of the rest of the industry.

None: When we did that.

None: We did that in the fourth quarter, and we started engaging with our realtors who are on the transaction.

Vishal Garg: Basically, Better has really done an amazing job of getting customers to come to Better and get pre-approved. We had over, you know, almost 20,000 applications. And that's $8 billion or so if you think of an average mortgage value of $400,000.

None: We started actively nurturing those leads and we saw conversion rates jumped dramatically.

None: And so we leaned more heavily into that.

None: And where we are is now that we've converted the entire sales force.

Vishal Garg: And yet, we're funding less than 10% of those. When you look across the industry, our competitors are funding at 20% to 40% when we're funding at less than 10% of applications. And we've been racking our brains, and last year was the first year we'd really been into purchase. So this non-commissioned model worked really well for refinance sales, because that's a product where you have a very short gestation period for a lead, like your average lead coming in, turning into a pre-approval, turning into a lock in two days, whereas in a purchase transaction, that gestation period And what we realized was that our customer service-oriented purchase salespeople were not doing certain things that were really necessary to nurture the customer all the way through their homeownership journey. So we started a pilot and said, look, we've been in a non-commissioned shop for eight years. What can we do differently?

None: Two a commission sales model.

None: On our direct to consumer channel and what that means is that the.

None: Folks who were we don't have the same customer support folks youre not going to see effectively double hiring you're not going to be as high in customer support people and loan officers, what youre going to see is.

None: <unk> hiring of loan officers in conjunction with scaled increase in marketing.

None: As we take advantage and improved unit economics, as we take advantage of.

None: This new business model pivot, which I would say is a really big business model pivot and we.

None: We hope can help narrow the gap and dramatically improved unit economics.

None: Between us and the rest of the industry.

None: Yeah, I think Ryan I would add as Vishal said, we're going to hire the fixed costs of the fixed compensation is materially lower than in our sales model that we had in 2000 22021.

Vishal Garg: And one of the things that we had really said that was sort of a holy grail for us was the no commission. And we said, well, are we doing the wrong thing here? Should we test a small commission loan officer pilot that's similar to that of the rest of the industry? And when we did that, we did that in the fourth quarter, and we started engaging with the realtors who were on the transaction. We started actively nurturing those leads, and we saw conversion rates jump dramatically. And so we leaned more heavily into that. And where we are now is that we've converted the entire sales force to a commissioned sales model and on our direct-to-consumer channel. And what that means is that the folks who were, we don't have the same customer support people. You're not going to see effectively double hiring.

None: But obviously the incentives that the salespeople can generate are clearly higher in this model and so you'll see us grow into depending on where the market goes around demand right. I think we're guiding on this call to volume will be up in Q1 versus Q4.

None: At the midpoint of our range is high teens percent.

None: The 600 to 650, so call it high teens percentage up Q1, and now we're heading into purchase season and so these people are experiences. So we can get and many are getting trained on the technology and they are productive.

None: Quickly and so we're going to keep hiring and the pace of that will be dictated by the results we see in the market we face.

Vishal Garg: You're not going to see us hiring customer support people and loan officers. What you're going to see is us narrow the gap and dramatically improve unit economics between us and the rest of the industry. Yeah, I think, I think Ryan, I would add, we're, as Michelle said.

None: Great. Thanks for all that color guys.

None: Your next question comes from the line of Michael Kaye from Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

Michael Kaye: Hi, Good morning wanted to see if you go down given the recent settlement what do you see as the impact of the housing market and the mortgage origination and the screen.

Kevin Ryan: We're going to hire at a fixed cost, so the fixed compensation is materially lower than in our sales model that we had. 2020, 2021, but obviously, the incentives that the salespeople can generate are clearly higher in this model. And so you'll see us grow into, depending on where the market goes around demand, right? I think we're guiding on this call that volume will be up in Q1 versus Q4. I think at the midpoint of our range, that's high teens percent, the 600s, the 650s, so call it high teens percent up in Q1. And now we're heading into...

Michael Kaye: And how is better positioning itself from the fall out of the settlement I know you mentioned that things look better duo you are saying.

None: I didn't do a licensing for some real estate agents I can just talk a little bit about that in our settlement.

None: Sure sure. So this is Kevin.

None: Hey.

Kevin Ryan: First off it's probably a little too early to tell exactly what happens.

Kevin Ryan: So these people are experienced, and so we can get them in here, get them trained on the technology, and they're productive very quickly. And so we're going to keep hiring, and the pace of that will be dictated by the results we see in the market. Great. Thanks for all that, Collier. Your next question comes from the line of Michael Kay from Wells Fargo. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning.

Kevin Ryan: But we're watching this closely with great interest I think for all the all the obvious reasons you just pointed out.

Kevin Ryan: But on a macro point when Michelle founded this company was all about lower cost to the consumer transparency, taking friction out of the home buying process and so anything that does that.

Kevin Ryan: We're supportive of.

Kevin Ryan: As a as a just corporate philosophy.

Michael Kay: I wanted to see if you could, given the recent NAR settlement, you know, what do you see as the impact of the housing market and the mortgage origination industry, and how is it better positioning itself from the fallout of the settlement? I know you mentioned that, I think it's called Better Duo, you're saying, where you're doing dual licensing for some real estate agents, like you just talked a little bit about the NAR settlement. Sure, sure. So it's Kevin.

So we think this should be good for the consumer, but we'll see how it plays out as I said.

Kevin Ryan: And then you mentioned better duo which is quite helpful.

Kevin Ryan: Thank the value proposition of better duo duo is really buy side agents also becoming loan officers. So that they can now be an adviser to the consumer.

Kevin Ryan: And generate more revenue for themselves bring more value to the table, we think that should play very well in this new market as the buy side agent is going to be negotiating likely ear with the consumer as to the fee for the service that they will provide and so.

Kevin Ryan: I'd say... You know, first off, it's probably a little too early to tell exactly what happens, but we're watching this closely with great interest, I think, for all the obvious reasons you just pointed out. Like, on a macro level, when Vishal founded this company, it was all about lower costs to the consumer, transparency, and taking friction out of the home buying process. And so anything that does that, we're supportive of, you know, as a just corporate philosophy. And so we think this should be good for the consumer, but we'll see how it plays out, as I said. And then, you know, you mentioned Better Duo, which is quite helpful.

Kevin Ryan: One of the things, we've really focused on building our purchase business, we were 91% purchase or not but obviously, we need more volume at this company and that's what we're focused on we got to get bigger.

Kevin Ryan: Is partnering with real estate agents with something we didn't have to do and refinance.

Kevin Ryan: It's not as simple as a digital play to go do that and so we've been doing that over the course of the over the course of 2023.

Kevin Ryan: We think the value proposition of Better Duo because Better Duo is really a buy-side agent and also becoming loan officers so that they can now be an advisor to the consumer and generate more revenue for themselves, brings more value to the table. We think that should play very well in this new market as the buy side agent is likely going to be negotiating here with the consumer as to the fee for the service that they will provide. One of the things we've really focused on in building our purchase business; we were 91% purchase, but obviously we need more volume at this company, and that's what we're focused on. We've got to get bigger, and that's partnering with real estate agents. It's something we didn't have to do in refinance.

Kevin Ryan: And do what was a big part of this and it should fit in well.

Kevin Ryan: Well with whether it's likely to be in the new market structure going forward.

Kevin Ryan: Importantly, I think one thing to add the important thing is this is going to drive more consumers online. So we think that in the best case scenario consumers are going to have to figure out how to pay for a realtor and theyre going to come to try to figure out how much they can afford and the <unk>.

Kevin Ryan: More consumers that do that the more they get online the more they will find us and the more they will find our value propositions of speed certainty and price.

Kevin Ryan: It's not as simple as a digital play to go do that, and so we've been doing that over the course of 2023, and Duo is a big part of this and should fit in well with what is likely to be the new market structure. I think one thing to add, the important thing is that this is going to drive more consumers online. So, we think that in the best case scenario, consumers are going to have to figure out how much they can afford. And the more consumers that do that, the more they get online, the more they will find us, and the more they'll find our value propositions of speed, certainty, and price attractive, along with the service offerings that we're doing. The fact that we have realtors who are signing up to become loan officers on our platform shows you how advanced our platform has become in terms of purchase mortgages. We built it from scratch, from the ground up. We just didn't reconfigure the refi product to make the purchase.

Kevin Ryan: <unk> along with the service offerings that we're doing the.

Kevin Ryan: The fact that we have realtors, who are signing up to become loan officers on our platform shows you how advanced our platform has become in terms of purchase mortgages.

Kevin Ryan: We built it from scratch from the ground up we just didn't reconfigure the refi product.

Kevin Ryan: Do purchase.

Kevin Ryan: <unk> built a product that.

Kevin Ryan: Realtors are adopting and saying, yes, I want to be alone officer on this platform.

Kevin Ryan: Okay. That's helpful. Thank you and a follow up question is do you have any thoughts or concerns about the CFPB looking into what they claim our strong teams as part of the mortgage closing process. For example, do you think they could potentially playskool and thats, Unlike Warner ratio loan origination fees or the use of discount points.

Vishal Garg: We built a product that realtors are adopting and saying, Yeah, I want to be a loan officer on this. Okay, that's helpful. And the follow-up question is, do you have any thoughts and concerns about the CFPB looking into what they claim are junk fees as part of the mortgage closing process? For example, do you think the CFPB is right to look at a lot of the junk fees that go into the mortgage process? We've always been a low fee, low rate lender, and our gain on sale margins have typically been substantially lower than that of the rest of the industry. To the extent that the CFPB equalizes the playing field across the board, we think we will be a beneficiary. Okay, thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Jeff Cantwell from Seaport Research. Please go ahead.

Kevin Ryan: I think the CFPB is right to look at a lot of the junk fees that go into the mortgage process, we've always been a low fee low rate lender.

Kevin Ryan: And.

Kevin Ryan: Our gain on sale margins have typically been substantially lower than that of the rest of the industry to the extent that.

The CFPB equalizes, the playing field across the board, we think we will be a beneficiary of that.

None: Okay. Thank you.

None: Your next question comes from the line of Jeff Cantwell from Seaport Research. Please go ahead.

Jeff Cantwell: Great. Thanks, I wanted to ask you I understand there's some writers competitive barrels kosher, which brought it would be a low cost provider.

Jeff Cantwell: When do you guys see any opportunities to improve pricing wherever it performed over time.

Operator: Hey, thanks. I want to ask you, you know. I understand that some of the better competitive brands come from its ability to be a low-cost provider, but there's not as many. Do you guys see any opportunities to improve pricing and revenue per fund over time? Thanks.

Jeff Cantwell: Sure sure so so.

Jeff Cantwell: I mean, that's right and Michelle just said it right when we started the company the with.

Jeff Cantwell: With the he says we have generally been low to no fee.

Jeff Cantwell: And low rate.

Jeff Cantwell: And that that has served us well kind of getting to the place where we're relevant in the market and grew customer base, but I will tell you. We look at this all the time, we started unit economics. The reason we scaled back so much last year was we wanted to do what we call contribution margin profitable loans.

Jeff Cantwell: Sure, sure. So, so, um, I mean, that's right. And Michelle just said it, right?

Kevin Ryan: I mean, we started the company, you know, with the ESOS. We've generally been low to no fee and low rate. And that has served us well, kind of getting to the place where we're relevant in the market and growing our customer base. And I will tell you, we look at this all the time.

Jeff Cantwell: So every loan makes money in and of itself.

Jeff Cantwell: And so we've been putting price into the market.

Jeff Cantwell: Over the course of 2023.

Kevin Ryan: We study unit economics. The reason we scaled back so much last year was we wanted to do what we call contribution margin, you know, profitable loans. So every loan makes money in and of itself.

Jeff Cantwell: We raised price we've done it again in Q1, we see really limited impact limited impact to our conversion rates I mean, there's some but limited impact and so I think as you think about us and particularly with this new operating model. These are seasoned loan officers, you think of things like duo et cetera.

Kevin Ryan: And so we've been putting prices into the market, and, you know, over the course of 2023, we've raised prices, we've done it again in Q1, and we've seen really limited impact, limited impact on our conversion. So, I think as you think about us, and particularly with this new operating model, these are seasoned loan officers; you think of things like Duo, etc. It's going to be a higher service offering. When the company was founded, it was really a DIY product. Go online, click here, and that leads to a low-cost product.

Jeff Cantwell: It's going to be higher service offer and when the company was founded it was really a DIY product go online click here and that leads itself to our low cost product if were hiring more seasoned people that actually work with the consumer through the home.

Jeff Cantwell: Buying process, which can take months as Vishal said.

Jeff Cantwell: We think it kind of justifies a slightly higher price. So I think I think that our trend is.

Jeff Cantwell: Already developed sometimes it's not easy to see in the numbers because there are marks and things like that but also run through gain on sale. Our gain on sale has been trending up each and every quarter some of that capacity coming out of the market.

Kevin Ryan: If we're hiring more seasoned people to actually work with the consumer through the home buying process, which can take months, as Michelle said, we think it kind of justifies a slightly higher price. So I think that our trend is... already developed. Sometimes it's not easy to see in the numbers because you have marks and things like that that also run through gain on sale.

Jeff Cantwell: Yeah.

Jeff Cantwell: Some of that's just what we're doing and I think over time will converge closer to the industry on gain on sale I don't think we're ever going to be the high cost to the consumer that's not our model.

Jeff Cantwell: I think we're going to trend a little bit higher so more revenue per unit is definitely in our future.

Kevin Ryan: But our gain on sale has been trending up each and every quarter. Some of that is capacity coming out of the market. And some of that's just, you know, what we're doing, and I think over time we'll converge closer to the industry on gain on sale. I don't think we're ever going to be the high cost to the consumer. That's not our model. But I think we're going to trend a little bit higher.

None: Okay, great. Thanks, so much.

None: Your next question comes from the line of Peter Heckmann from D. A Davidson. Please go ahead.

Peter Heckmann: Hey, good morning, I wanted to ask a question on the <unk>.

Peter Heckmann: <unk> partners.

Peter Heckmann: Kind of intriguing aspect of the business and now adding beyond Dot Com can you talk about the economics on those partnerships.

Kevin Ryan: So more revenue per unit. Okay, great. Thanks so much.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Peter Heckman from D. A. Davidson. Please go ahead. Hey, good morning.

None: On a.

None: The basis of DTC, how do you expect it to grow in 2034.

None: I think the biggest.

Peter Heckman: I wanted to ask a question about the B2B partners. It's kind of an intriguing aspect of the business, and now that beyond.com is added, can you talk about the economics of those partnerships? And, and, you know, on a relative basis to DTC, how do you expect it to grow in 2024?

None: The benefit of.

None: The BW relationships that we have zero customer acquisition costs.

None: So in the case of partnerships like beyond Dot Com, we're able to instead of having our customer acquisition costs, we're able to utilize their extremely large customer list.

Vishal Garg: I think the biggest benefit of the B2B relationship is that we have zero customer acquisition costs. So in the case of partnerships like beyond.com, we're able to, instead of having a customer acquisition cost, we're able to utilize their extremely large customer list, their low cost of marketing to that list in conjunction with the marketing that they're already doing, and drive a discount to the consumer and pay a bounty to beyond for the applications and consumers that they refer. So it's a win-win for all parties.

None: They are low cost of the marketing to that lift in conjunction with the marketing that they are already doing and Theyre and drive a discount to the consumer.

None: And pay a bounty to beyond.

None: For the applications in consumers that they refer to us.

None: So it's a win win for all parties.

None: The other partnerships that we have the ones that are going to be coming out of sort of our partnership with it but those are more full white label.

Vishal Garg: The other partnerships that we have, the ones that are going to be coming out of sort of our partnership with Infosys, those are more full white-label mortgage as a service for big banks. And there, what we benefit from is the fact that the banks are outsourcing their mortgage operations to us, in some cases outsourcing sales and operations to us, along with managing the entire mortgage customer journey online for their customers. And those are all fee businesses.

None: Mortgage as a service for big banks and there what we benefit from is the fact that the banks are outsourcing.

None: Mortgage operations to us in some cases outsourcing sales and operations to us along with managing the entire mortgage customer journey online for their customers and those are all fee businesses.

Vishal Garg: As you might have seen, over 50% of our revenue last quarter was from B2B partnerships. And we think that this presents a really great benefit, a capability for us to use our platform to drive revenue and build out the business so that we're not solely reliant on growth in our direct-to-consumer technology. Your next question comes from the line of Reggie Smith from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead. Sorry, I was on mute.

None: As you might've been the over 50% of our revenue.

None: Last quarter was from B to B partnerships and.

None: And we think that this presents a really great.

None: Capability for us to use our platform to drive revenue and build out the business. So that we're not solely reliant on growth in our direct to consumer channel.

None: Your next question comes from the line of Reggie Smith from Jpmorgan. Please go ahead.

I was on mute good morning.

Reggie Smith: Good morning. Thanks for taking the question. You guys talked about investment in Tinman in the press release and your prepared remarks. I was curious if you could shed any light, any insight on the kind of new products, maybe some new things you have launched there and, you know, where you think the capabilities of Tinman can ultimately go. No, we're all alone.

Reggie Smith: Thanks for taking the question.

Reggie Smith: You guys.

Reggie Smith: Talk.

Reggie Smith: Investment in 10 minutes from the press release and in your prepared remarks, I was curious with EPS.

Reggie Smith: Any insight on kind of new products, maybe some new things you have launched there.

Reggie Smith: <unk>.

Reggie Smith: Where do you think the capability the tinman and ultimately.

Got it.

Reggie Smith: Sure.

Reggie Smith: Yes.

Vishal Garg: Yeah, we've continued to expand our suite of one-day mortgage products. So TinMan has gotten good enough that almost 80% of the mortgage loans that are coming in through the door and getting funded are one-day mortgages, which is pretty impressive for one year post-launch. We've now recently taken the HELOC process and turned that into a one-day HELOC, where consumers are getting a commitment letter on a HELOC within one day, which is industry-leading.

Reggie Smith: Yes, we have continued to expand our suite of one day mortgage products. So tinman has gotten now good enough that almost 80% of the mortgage loans that are coming in through the door and getting funded our our one day mortgages, which is pretty impressive for one year post launch we have now recently taken the HELOC process and turned that into a <unk>.

Reggie Smith: One day, HELOC, where consumers are getting a commitment letter on our HELOC within one day, which is industry leading.

Vishal Garg: We've also launched VA and FHA loans, so we expanded the capability for us to now reach that portion of the market, which now comprises about a quarter of the mortgage market, which is something that we just didn't do before. So TinMan is expanding the breadth of the mortgage market that it's ingesting into its rules engine and becoming faster at being able to autonomously process mortgages across a broader cross-section of consumer time. Going forward into the future, we've been building for eight years the supervised learning network, which, you know, in the context of what people are talking about with respect to AI is, is, one of the best manifestations of true machine learning and the creation of a rules engine in the mortgage industry.

Reggie Smith: We've also launched VA and FHA loans, so expanded the capability for us to now reach that portion of the market, which now comprises about a quarter of the mortgage market, which is something that we just didn't do before so can manage expanding the breadth of the market the mortgage.

Reggie Smith: That is ingesting intuit's rules engine.

Reggie Smith: And.

Reggie Smith: And becoming faster and being able to autonomously process.

Reggie Smith: The mortgages across a broader cross section of consumer types.

Reggie Smith: Going forward into the future we've been building for eight years this supervised learning network.

Reggie Smith: In the context of what people are talking about with respect to AI is is one of the best manifestations.

Reggie Smith: True machine learning and the creation of a rules engine in the mortgage industry.

Vishal Garg: Now, where this goes forward is the ability to use generative AI to further automate many parts of the process and make it easier for consumers to be matched to the right loan officer, and be matched to the right loan product, as well as all of the back-end processes which require human intervention still and some use of human logic for those processes to then be done by the machine itself. So we think that, you know, we're just in inning two of the stages of automation and customer delight in terms of the application of technology with TinMan. We've just been building this platform to get to one-day certainty across all these mortgage types. And now, from there, you're going to see us really push forward on cost savings and customer satisfaction. I think, Reggie, we pulled back last year on so many chaps, as we talked about, we're out-raising capital. We pulled back. We did not pull back on technology.

Reggie Smith: Now where this goes forward is.

Reggie Smith: Is the ability to use generative AI to further automate many parts of the process and make it easier for consumers to.

Reggie Smith: Be matched to the right loan officer be matched to the right loan product.

Reggie Smith: And as well as all of the backend processes, which require human intervention still and some use of human logic for those processes to then be done by the machine itself. So we think that we're just in any two of the stages of automation and customer delight.

Reggie Smith: In terms of.

Reggie Smith: The application of technology with Tinman, we've just been building this platform to get to one day.

Reggie Smith: Certainty across all of these mortgage side and now from there youre going to see us.

Reggie Smith: Really push forward on cost savings and customer satisfaction, I think Rajiv we pulled back last year and so many jobs as we talked about we're out raising capital. We pulled back we did not pull back in technology. This is kind of core to the company and back to the <unk> question, we wouldn't have had.

Kevin Ryan: This is kind of core to the company. And back to the B2B question, we would have had half our volume come from B2B if it were not for what we've already built in TinMan. All said, we've rolled out a lot of new products, and under his direction, we're investing even more in the technology. It is our competitive advantage.

Reggie Smith: Half of volume come from <unk>, if it were not for what we've already built and tinman and as Michelle said, we've all got a lot of new products.

Reggie Smith: And of his direction, we're investing even more in the technology. It is our competitive advantage here.

Reggie Smith: If you would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad.

Operator: If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. We have no further questions in our queue at this time. I will now turn the call back over to Vishal for his closing remarks. Thank you, everyone. We're really pleased with the progress that the business and the technology platform have made in 2023, and we're looking forward to, under a new commercial operating model, demonstrating progress again in 2023. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect.

Reggie Smith: You may have no further questions in our queue. At this time I will now turn the call back over to Vishal for closing remarks.

Vishal: Thank you everyone.

Vishal: Sure.

Vishal: We're really pleased with the progress that the business and the technology platform has made in 2023 and we're looking forward to under our new commercial operating model demonstrate progress again in 2024.

None: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation and you may now disconnect.

None: Okay.