Q2 2024 MicroVision Inc Earnings Call
Speaker Change: Good afternoon and welcome to the MicroVision Second Quarter 2024 Financial and Operating Results Conference Call.
Operator: For the Financial and Operating Results Conference Call, should anyone require operator assistance at any time, you may press star zero on your telephone keypad. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode.
Speaker Change: Should anyone require operator assistance at any time, you may press star zero on your telephone keypad. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. At the end of today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions via a chat line.
Operator: At the end of today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions via a chat line. Additionally, investors can submit their questions within the meeting webcast by typing them into the Q&A button on the left side of their viewing screen. Analysts who publish research may ask questions on the phone line. For analysts to ask a question on the phone line, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Drew Markham. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Investors can submit their questions within the meeting webcast by typing them into the Q&A button on the left side of your viewing screen.
Speaker Change: Analysts who publish research may ask questions on the phone line.
Speaker Change: For analysts to ask a question on the phone line, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad.
Speaker Change: Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Drew Markham. Please go ahead.
Drew Markham: Thank you, Tom. Good afternoon. I'm here today with our CEO, Sumit Sharma, and our CFO, Anubhav Verma. Following their prepared remarks, we will open the call to questions. Please note that some of the information you'll hear today will include forward-looking statements, including, but not limited to, statements regarding our customer and partner engagement, market landscape opportunity and program volume and timing, product development and performance, comparisons to our competitors, product sales and future demand, business and strategic opportunities, projections of future operations and financial results, availability of funds, as well as statements containing words like intend, believe, expect, plan, and other similar expressions.
Drew Markham: Thank you, Tom. Good afternoon. I'm here today with our CEO , Sumit Sharma, and our CFO , Anubhav Verma. Following their prepared remarks, we will open the call to questions.
Drew Markham: These statements are not guarantees of future performance, and actual results could differ materially from the future results implied or expressed in the forward-looking statement. We encourage you to review our SEC filings, including our most recently filed annual report on Form 10-K and our quarterly reports on Form 10-Q. These filings describe risk factors that could cause our actual results to differ materially from those implied or expressed in our forward-looking statements. All forward-looking statements are made as of the date of this call, and, except as required by law, we undertake no obligation to update this information.
Drew Markham: Please note that some of the information you'll hear today will include forward-looking statements including, but not limited to, statements regarding our customer and partner engagement, market landscape, opportunity, and program volume and timing, product development and performance,
Drew Markham: comparisons to our competitors, product sales and future demand, business and strategic opportunities, projections of future operations and financial results.
Drew Markham: availability of funds, as well as statements containing words like intend, believe, expect, plan, and other similar expressions.
Speaker Change: These statements are not guarantees of future performance. Actual results could differ materially from the future results implied or expressed in the forward-looking statements.
Speaker Change: We encourage you to review our SEC filings, including our most recently filed annual report on Form 10-K and our quarterly reports on Form 10-Q .
Speaker Change: These filings describe risk factors that could cause our actual results to differ materially from those implied or expressed in our forward-looking statements.
Speaker Change: All forward looking statements are made as of the date of this call and accept as required by law. We undertake no obligation to update this information.
Drew Markham: In addition, we will present certain financial measures on this call that will be considered non-GAAP under the SEC's Regulation G. For reconciliations of each non-GAAP financial measure to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measure, as well as for all the financial data presented on this call, please refer to the information included in our press release and in our Form 8K dated and submitted to the SEC today, both of which can be found on our corporate website at This call will be available for audio replay on the investor relations section of our website. Now, I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO, Sumit Sharma. Sumit.
Speaker Change: In addition, we will present certain financial measures on this call that will be considered non-GAAP under the SEC's Regulation G.
Speaker Change: for reconciliations of each non-GAAP financial measure to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measure, as well as for all the financial data presented on this call.
Speaker Change: Please refer to the information included in our press release and in our Form 8K dated and submitted to the SEC today, both of which can be found on our corporate website at ir.microvisions.com under the SEC Filings tab.
Speaker Change: This call will be available for audio replay on the investor relations section of our website.
Speaker Change: Now, I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO , Sumit Sharma. Sumit. Sumit.
Sumit Sharma: Thank you, Drew, and welcome everyone to this review of our second quarter 2024 results. I would like to start by updating you on our automotive OEM engagement, or RFQs, and new potential customer development exploration. Second, I will update you on our progress and sales opportunities for industrial segments. And finally, I will update you on the market outlook on what we're seeing ahead. Let's dive in.
Sumit Sharma: Thank you, Drew, and welcome, everyone, to this review of our second quarter 2024 results.
Sumit Sharma: The best long-term opportunity for our technology in our company remains with the automotive OEMs focusing on ADAS Level 3 and Level 2 plus features for passenger vehicles. We remain engaged in seven RFQs with automotive OEMs for passenger vehicles. Maven and Mobya S are engaged in all conversations.
Sumit Sharma: I would like to start by updating you on our automotive OEM engagement, or RFQs, and new potential customer development explorations.
Speaker Change: Second, I will update you on our progress and sales opportunities for industrial segments. And finally, I will update you on the market outlook on what we're seeing ahead of us.
Speaker Change: Let's dive in.
Speaker Change: The best long-term opportunity for our technology and our company remains with the automotive OEMs focusing on ADAS Level 3 and Level 2 plus features for passenger vehicles.
Speaker Change: We remain engaged in seven RFQs with automotive OEM for passenger vehicles.
Sumit Sharma: The pace for reviews and decisions remains with the OEM. Start-up production for these high-volume programs is targeted towards the end of this decade, so decisions are pushing out into later this year. We are cautiously optimistic about these targets to decisions but remain aggressively engaged. A new era of engagement has opened up with multiple OEMs across Europe and the U.S. OEMs are engaging with us to investigate the opportunity for more strategic hardware and software exploration in developing a more customized MAVEN and MOVIA S design for L3 products.
Speaker Change: Maven and Mobya S are engaged in all conversations.
Speaker Change: The pace for reviews and decisions remain with the OEMs.
Speaker Change: Start-up production for these high-volume programs are targeted towards the end of this decade, so decisions are pushing out into later this year.
Speaker Change: We are cautiously optimistic about these targets to decisions, but remain aggressively engaged.
Speaker Change: A new era of engagement has opened up with multiple OEMs across Europe and U.S.
Speaker Change: OEMs are engaging with us to investigate the opportunity for more strategic hardware and software exploration in developing a more customized Maven and Movia S design for L3 products.
Sumit Sharma: We are actively working on this as it represents near-term revenue opportunities as well as delivering a more custom sensor for their B-sample needs for RFQs. We are exploring integration of MAVEN behind the windshield, as well as a new 180-degree field-of-view MOVIA sensor that would integrate into a car body with small bumps resembling the current camera module bumps.
Speaker Change: We are actively working on this as it represents near-term revenue opportunities as well as delivering a more custom sensor for their B-sample needs for RFQs.
Speaker Change: We are working on exploring integration of MAVEN behind windshield as well as a new 180-degree field-of-view MOVIA sensor that would integrate into a car body with small bumps resembling the current camera module bumps.
Sumit Sharma: These are exciting opportunities, and I see them as potentially a faster path to RFQ discussions. Some of these engagements are for RFQs that are targeted for 2025. I'm sure investors are wondering why we continue to stay in the race and what evidence we have that we will win. I will offer this.
Speaker Change: These are exciting opportunities and I see them as potentially a faster path to RFQ decisions.
Speaker Change: Some of these engagements are for RFQs that are targeted for 2025.
Speaker Change: I'm sure investors are wondering why we continue to stay in the race and what evidence do we have that we will win?
Sumit Sharma: Our products are exactly what OEMs are looking for. We are a couple of years behind, and we were a couple of years behind to get to the evaluation point because we did not have the capital to invest heavily early on. But with our acquisition journey, we are all caught up.
Speaker Change: I will offer this.
Speaker Change: Our products are exactly what OEMs are looking for.
Speaker Change: We are a couple of years behind, we were a couple of years behind to get to the evaluation point because we did not have the capital to invest heavily early. But with our acquisition journey, we are all caught up.
Sumit Sharma: The Movia product series was developed by our Germany team for a German OEM after they delivered the Scala-1 sensor to this OEM. Our MAVIS sensor was developed on our MEMS technology based on all the specifications OEMs require and to be at a cost target. We are aggressively working with OEMs on adoption. However, we are in a cycle where OEMs have slowed down on their programs. We are at the same evaluation level as our competition.
Speaker Change: The Movia products series was developed by our Germany team for a German OEM after they delivered the Scala-1 sensor to this OEM.
Speaker Change: our maor sensor was developed when our me technology based on all the specifications orients require and to be at cost targets
Speaker Change: We are aggressively working with OEMs on adoption.
Speaker Change: We are in a cycle where OEMs have slowed down in their programs. We are at the same evaluation level as our competition.
Sumit Sharma: In the meantime, our competition has really faltered. One of them is focused on 1550 nanometers, which is inherently the most expensive high-power technology, and it's taking billions to get to this point, and will cost billions to get the cost down to OEM targets. None of their partnerships have materialized to volume production.
Speaker Change: In the meantime, our competition has really faltered.
Speaker Change: One of them is focused on 1550 nanometer, which is inherently the most expensive high-power technology and is taking billions to get to this point and will cost billions to get the cost down to OEM targets.
Sumit Sharma: Our other main competition in 905 nanometer launched a first generation product that ended up costing Tier One more than 240 million in losses to bring to market and has been abandoned, and they're starting with a new technology node for the second generation, but are no further along. Combined, these companies have spent billions of dollars to capture the market, and they're not dominant because they did not deliver any product or have the technology. This is our competition.
Speaker Change: None of their partnerships have materialized to volume production.
Speaker Change: Our other main competition in 905 nanometer launched, a first generation product that ended up costing the tier one more than 240 million in losses to bring to market and has been abandoned and they're starting with a new technology node for second generation are no further along.
Speaker Change: Combined, these companies have spent billions of dollars to capture the market and they're not dominant because they did not deliver any product or have the technology.
Sumit Sharma: There is demand from OEMs, and it may look like we are behind in the race, but we're not. In the EU and North American markets, we have no competition from Chinese LiDAR companies since Western LiDARs are not being adopted in China, and Chinese LiDARs are not being adopted in the West due to the closed software background. So I totally understand the frustration, but we need to be focused and patient as things are clearing up.
Speaker Change: This is our competition.
Speaker Change: There is demand from OEM and it may look like we are behind in the race, but we are not.
Speaker Change: In EU and North American markets, we have no competition from the Chinese LiDAR companies since Western LiDAR are not being adopted in China and Chinese LiDAR are not being adopted in the West due to the closed software background.
Sumit Sharma: But inferior products spend billions, and marketing should not be the reason to fall out of the race. The best products will always win, spending moderately compared to all our competition and remaining competitive. As they further falter, we will be there as a stable company with the technology to deliver. We are in a race, and may not be first yet, but we have the strongest team and product portfolio. We must be resilient and see the race through.
Speaker Change: So I totally understand the frustration, but we need to be focused and patient as things are clearing up. But inferior products spend billions, and marketing should not be the reason to fall out of the race.
Speaker Change: Best products will always win.
Speaker Change: We are spending moderately compared to all our competition and remain competitive as they further falter. We will be there as a stable company with the technology to deliver.
Speaker Change: We are in a race.
Speaker Change: and may not be first yet, but have the strongest team and product portfolio.
Sumit Sharma: Meaningful partnerships are up for grabs in the very near future, but revenues from these partnerships are still four years away as OEM production cycles are long. The solution to their revenue problem lies with their industrial strategy. Now let's move, let's move to update our industrial sales opportunities and progress we've made there. Sales in the industrial segment are important as we expect they may bridge the gap from now till automotive OEM revenues come alive later in this decade.
Speaker Change: You must be resilient and see the race through.
Speaker Change: Meaningful partnerships are up for grabs in the very near future but revenues from these partnerships are still four years away as OEM production cycles are long.
Speaker Change: The solution to the revenue problem lies with our industrial strategy.
Speaker Change: Now, let's move to update our industrial sales opportunities and progress we've made there.
Speaker Change: Sales in the industrial segment are important as we expect they may bridge the gap for from now till automotive OEM revenues come alive later in this decade.
Sumit Sharma: We have made good progress on this in identifying segments that will support these opportunities. We have been working on developing partnerships in the heavy industrial market segment that has the potential for sales of an estimated 10,000 to 30,000 units per year starting next year. This segment would leverage our currently available MoVIA L-sensor and include a modified version of our perception software for this specific segment.
Speaker Change: We have made good progress on this in identifying segments that will support these opportunities.
Speaker Change: We have been working on developing partnerships in the heavy industrial market segment that has the potential for sale of an estimated 10,000 to 30,000 units per year starting next year.
Speaker Change: This segment would leverage our currently available Movia L sensor and include a modified version of our perception software for this specific segment.
Sumit Sharma: Again, our product is well suited for the space in which humans work in proximity with heavy equipment operated by humans. These machines are now planned to integrate ADAS features developed for the automotive industry in their industrial environment. Our advantage here is speed to market with an automotive-qualified product for the industrial market with a big library of software to enable our potential customers. The mature software we have to offer integration and the small solid state 3D LiDAR is exciting for the industry.
Speaker Change: Again.
Speaker Change: Our product is well suited for the space in which humans work in proximity with heavy equipment operated by humans.
Speaker Change: These machines are now planned to integrate ADAS features developed for automotive in their industrial environment.
Speaker Change: Our advantage here is speed to market with an automotive qualified product for the industrial market with a big library of software to enable our potential customers.
Speaker Change: The mature software we have to offer, integration, and the small solid-state 3D LiDAR is exciting for the industry.
Sumit Sharma: We are going aggressively after this market segment. We are forecasting meaningful revenues from this segment starting in 2025. Again, I'm sure investors are wondering why we continue to stay in the race with industrial and what evidence we have that we will win. I will offer you this. The grandfather in the industrial lighter market is sick aging.
Speaker Change: We are going aggressively after this market segment. We are forecasting meaningful revenues from this segment starting 2025.
Speaker Change: Again, I'm sure investors are wondering why we continue to stay in the race with industrial and what evidence do we have that we will win. I will offer you this.
Sumit Sharma: No one has come close to their annual revenues. They do this with, effectively, a line scanner with up to four lines. Today we have a 3D sensor with much higher resolution and better cost, in addition to perception software we will offer to our customers. We can disrupt this market and take a sizable chunk, which we intend to do. The LiDAR world is generally facing headwinds, but it is a race for the more established and reliable markets in the EU and North America. We must have resilience to make it through.
Speaker Change: The grandfather in the industrial lighter market is Sik Aji.
Speaker Change: No one has come close to their annual revenue stream.
Speaker Change: They do this with effectively a line scanner with up to four lines.
Speaker Change: Today, we have a 3D sensor with much higher resolution and better cost in addition to perception software we will offer to our customers.
Speaker Change: We can disrupt this market and take a sizable chunk, which we intend to.
Speaker Change: The LiDAR world is generally facing headwinds, but it is a race for the more established and reliable markets in EU and North America.
Sumit Sharma: You have the best product by far with our near-IR technology. I'm going to keep my prepared remarks brief today as we have received a large list of questions from our shareholders, and I would like to address that as the main narrative. I would like to now turn over the call to Anubhav to talk about our financials.
Speaker Change: We must have resilience to make it through. We have the best product by far with our near-IR technologies.
Speaker Change: I'm going to keep my prepared remarks brief today as we have received a large list of questions from our shareholders and I would like to address that as the main narrative. I would like to now turn up the call to Anubhav to talk about our financials. Anubhav?
Anubhav Verma: Thanks, Sumit. Auto OEMs, tier 1s, and ADAS companies in the U.S. and EU continue to experience market pressure driven primarily by stiff competition in terms of both technological innovation as well as cost from Chinese players. Second, not being able to generate return on investments made in the last several years due to weaker than originally anticipated demand for EVs and slower adoption of autonomous levels. The OEMs in the U.S. and EU continue to be under pressure to produce vehicles with advanced ADAS features powered by multi-modal sensors including vision, LiDAR, and radar-based systems to improve safety and autonomy in order to compete with their counterparts.
Anubhav: Thanks, Sumit.
Anubhav: Auto OEMs, Tier 1s, and ADAS companies in the U.S. and EU continue to experience the market pressure driven primarily by stiff competition in terms of both technological innovation as well as cost from Chinese players.
Speaker Change: Second, not being able to generate return on investments made in the last several years due to weaker than originally anticipated demand for EV and slower adoption of autonomy levels.
Speaker Change: The OEMs in the U.S. and EU continue to be under pressure to produce vehicles with advanced ADAS features powered by multi-modal sensors including vision, LiDAR, and radar-based systems to improve safety and autonomy in order to compete with their counterparts.
Anubhav Verma: But given the cost pressure and macroeconomic climate, OEMs are expecting downstream LiDAR suppliers to, A, bear the cost in the initial years, even when the volumes are low at the start of the production, and secondly, have diversified revenue streams from non-automotive to sustain the company during the multi-year ramp-up phase for the automotive OEM. This is primarily the reason why LIDAR companies are under pressure from investors and marketers, especially LiDAR companies that have announced nomination wins or serial production awards from OEMs.
Speaker Change: But given the cost pressure and macroeconomic climate, OEMs are expecting downstream LiDAR suppliers to a. bear the cost in the initial years, even when the volumes are low at the start of the production,
Anubhav: and secondly have diversified revenue stream from non-automotive to sustain the company during the multi-year ramp-up phase for automotive OEMs.
Speaker Change: This is primarily the reason why LiDAR companies are under pressure from investors and markets.
Speaker Change: Especially LiDAR companies that have announced nomination wins or serial production awards from OEMs.
Anubhav Verma: The current business challenge for all LiDAR players is to accept low-volume, low-revenue projects from auto customers in the near term and tap into other industries for the revenue needed to sustain these initial years to emerge as one of the few standing LiDAR companies. We believe that some of our peers have an untenable capital structure as well as unsustainable business models coupled with excessive OPEX run rates of over $300 million a year. There is a huge demand for LiDAR in the second half of this decade, which is being driven by the global competition and marketplace.
Speaker Change: The current business challenge for all LiDAR players is to accept
Speaker Change: Low-volume, low-revenue projects from auto customers in the near term.
Speaker Change: and tap into other industries for the revenue needed to sustain these initial years to emerge as one of the few standing LiDAR companies.
Speaker Change: We believe that some of our peers have untenable capital structure as well as unsustainable business models coupled with excessive OPEX run rate of over 300 million a year.
Speaker Change: There's a huge demand for LiDAR in the second half of this decade, which is being driven by the global competition and marketplace.
Anubhav Verma: However, only a few companies who are fiscally disciplined will be able to withstand this low point in the cycle and come out the other side. We believe MicroVision is very well positioned to capture this demand and remain one of the few standing LiDAR companies due to the following four factors. Number one, as Sumit described, we have the most relevant and strategic product portfolio with products able to solve complex technological problems at attractive price points for customers. Number two, we're focused on our efforts on big volume passenger car projects from OEMs. Making the right selection is very important for us.
Speaker Change: However, only a few companies who are fiscally disciplined will be able to withstand this low point in the cycle and come out the other side.
Speaker Change: We believe MicroVision is very well positioned to capture this demand and remain one of the few standing LiDAR companies due to the following four factors.
Speaker Change: Number one, as Sumit described, we have the most relevant and strategic product portfolio with products able to solve the complex technological problems at attractive price points for customers.
Speaker Change: Number two, we're focused on our efforts on big volume passenger car projects from OEMs. Making the right selection is very important for us. We want to commit resources for large volume OEM projects as that will be the best use of our capital.
Anubhav Verma: We want to commit resources to large volume OEM projects as that will be the best use of our capital. Number three, we have extended our runway and further streamlined our cash burn. We reduced our OPEX in Q2 to now focus on Maven and Movia with Perception Software Insight. This was a strategic move to conserve resources for these products and terminate all expenses and projects related to mosaic and sensor fusion. And number four, in the short to medium term, we have to pursue significant revenue streams and partnerships from non-automotive industrial channels with shorter sales cycles, such as a heavy equipment vertical, to reduce the dependence on low volumes in the automotive industrial year. This is very essential as all serial production revenue will be material only with economies of scale, which won't happen until later this decade.
Speaker Change: Number three, we have extended our runway and further streamlined our cash burn. We reduced our OPEX in Q2 to now focus on Maven and Movia with Perception software inside.
Speaker Change: This was a strategic move to conserve resources for these products and terminate all expenses and projects related to mosaic and sensor fusion.
Speaker Change: And number four, in the short to medium term, we have to pursue significant revenue streams and partnerships from non-automotive industrial channels with shorter sales cycles, such as a heavy equipment vertical, to reduce the dependence on low volumes in the automotive in the initial years.
Speaker Change: This is very essential as all serial production revenue will be material only with economies of scale, which won't happen until later this decade.
Anubhav Verma: Now let's review our Q2 financial performance. For the second quarter, we recorded revenue of $1.9 million, slightly ahead of expectations. Revenue in the second quarter was primarily attributable to the sale of our sensors to a leading agricultural equipment company for industrial applications.
Speaker Change: Now let's review our Q2 financial performance.
Speaker Change: For the second quarter, we recorded revenue of $1.9 million, slightly ahead of expectations.
Speaker Change: Revenue in the second quarter was primarily attributable to the sale of our sensors to a leading agricultural equipment company for industrial applications.
Anubhav Verma: Most of the revenue in Q2 was from non-automotive customers. This is in line with our strategy to focus on revenue streams from non-automotive customers while revenue from automotive customers ramps up. From a growth margin profile standpoint, on an adjusted basis, after adding back the amortization of the acquired intangibles, the growth margin was approximately 39%. We continue to differentiate ourselves significantly from our peers who either have upside-down negative growth margins or near zero margins. This demonstrates our unique business model, and we believe this will further entrench us as one of the last remaining American LiDAR companies focused on the U.S. and EU markets.
Speaker Change: Most of the revenue in Q2 was from non-automotive customers. This is in line with our strategy to focus on revenue streams from non-automotive customers while revenue from automotive customers ramps up.
Speaker Change: From a growth margin profile standpoint, on an adjusted basis, after adding back the amortization of the acquired intangibles, the growth margin was approximately 39%.
Speaker Change: We continue to differentiate ourselves significantly from our peers who either have upside down negative growth margins or near zero margins.
Speaker Change: This demonstrates our unique business model, and we believe this will further entrench us as one of the last standing American LiDAR companies focused on the US and EU markets.
Anubhav Verma: So let's talk about our expenses. Our expenses have trended down since Q1, primarily due to the reductions in force we implemented to focus the company on Maven and Movia, driven by Perception software offerings, and away from Mosaic and SensorFusion. We had approximately 22 million in R&D and SG&A expenses in the second quarter. Now, this includes, number one, 3.2 million of one-time non-recurring restructuring charges, including severance, et cetera. Number two, 3.4 million of non-cash charges related to stock-based compensation expense. And number three, 1.4 million in non-cash charges related to DNA.
Speaker Change: Let's talk about our expenses. Our expenses have trended down since Q1, primarily due to the reductions in force we implemented to focus the company on Maven and Movia driven by Perception software offerings, and away from Mosaic and SensorFusion.
Speaker Change: We had approximately $22 million of R&D and SG&A expenses in the second quarter.
Speaker Change: Now this includes, number one, 3.2 million of one-time, non-recurring, restructuring charges, including severance, etc.
Speaker Change: 2. 3.4 million of non-cash charges related to stock-based compensation expense 3. 1.4 million of non-cash charges related to DNA
Anubhav Verma: After normalizing for these charges, our new APEX run rate, including R&D and SG&A, is now 55 to 60 million per year. These actions were taken in line with our business strategy to focus on near-term and long-term revenue-generating opportunities, which are in the auto and industrial markets. For the second quarter, $18.6 million cash was used in operating activities, which is in line with our previously communicated expectations. In the second quarter, we incurred a non-cash impairment charge on our Mosaic software asset acquired as part of the IPO acquisition.
Speaker Change: After normalizing for these charges, our new OPEX run rate, including R&D and SG&A, is now 55 to 60 million per year.
Speaker Change: These actions were taken in line with our business strategy to focus on near-term and long-term revenue-generating opportunities, which are in the auto and industrial markets.
Speaker Change: For the second quarter, $18.6 million cash was used in operating activities, which is in line with our previously communicated expectations.
Speaker Change: We expect this number to come down by 20-25% on a run rate basis once all the restructuring charges have been paid out in the third quarter.
Speaker Change: In second quarter, we incurred a non-cash impairment charge on our Mosaic software asset acquired as part of the IVF acquisition.
Anubhav Verma: Please keep in mind this is a one-time, non-cash charge to impair the carrying value of the software asset acquired from IBAO. We impaired this asset as we decided to strategically conserve the cash to focus on perception software-driven products, which are Maven and Mobia for the auto and industrial customers. The Perception software asset, which has the highest carrying value, remains a key differentiator and has a significant competitive advantage for our products, both Maven and Mobia. To remind our investors, we continue to show financial discipline with our cash burn, being within our expectations and on a healthy trajectory, including extended runways. As expected, the second quarter capex was $0.2 million.
Speaker Change: Please keep in mind this is a one-time, non-cash charge to impair the carrying value of the software asset acquired from IBAO.
Speaker Change: We impaired this asset as we decided to strategically conserve the cash to focus on perception software-driven products, which are Maven and Mobia, for the auto and industrial customers.
Speaker Change: The Perception software asset, which has the highest carrying value, remains a key differentiator and has significant competitive advantage for our products, both Maven and Mobia.
Speaker Change: To remind our investors, we continue to show financial discipline with our cash burn, being within our expectations and on a healthy trajectory, including extended runways.
Anubhav Verma: Our balance sheet as of June 30, 2024 shows that we have made all payments, including the last payment for the IBO acquisition. Our total liquidity was $179 million as of June 30, including $57 million of cash-in-cash equivalents and investment securities, and $123 million availability under the current ATM facility with Deutsche Bank, Mitsuho, and Craig Hallam. With the new ongoing APEX, and the APEX run rate of 55 to 60 million, we believe we have sufficient liquidity, along with our ATM facility, to have an adequate runway.
Speaker Change: As expected, second quarter capex was $0.2 million.
Speaker Change: Our balance sheet as of June 30, 2024, we have made all payments including the last payment for the IBAO acquisition.
Speaker Change: Our total liquidity was $179 million as of June 30, including $57 million of cash-in-cash equivalents and investment securities, and $123 million availability under the current ATM facility with Deutsche Bank, Mitsuho, and Craig Hallam.
Speaker Change: With the new ongoing APEX, OPEX run rate of 55 to 60 million, we believe we have sufficient liquidity along with our ATM facility to have an adequate runway.
Anubhav Verma: MicroVision continues to stand out and beat competitors in terms of maintaining a clean capital structure and one of the lowest cash burns in the industry with a highly talented pool of approximately 160 engineers in the US and Germany. We sold approximately 5 million shares for net proceeds of $5 million under the current ATM facility in the second quarter.
Speaker Change: MicroVision continues to stand out and beat competitors in terms of maintaining a clean capital structure and one of the lowest cash burns in the industry with a highly talented pool of approximately 160 engineers in the U.S. and Germany.
Speaker Change: We sold approximately 5 million shares for net proceeds of 5 million under the current ATM facility in the second quarter. With a new cash burn rate and given our cash on hand, we are well situated to deliver to our customers.
Anubhav Verma: With a new cash burn rate and given our cash on hand, we are well-situated to deliver to our customers. For the rest of 2024, we believe we're on track for 8 to 10 million revenue from the following revenue streams. Number one, revenue related to the sales of light-out sensors to both automotive OEMs and non-automotive customers. Number two, a direct sales channel that includes the sale of our hardware and software to non-automotive customers that include forklifts, warehouse automation robots, agricultural, and mining equipment companies.
Speaker Change: For the rest of 2024, we believe we're on track for 8 to 10 million revenue from the following revenue streams.
Speaker Change: Number one.
Speaker Change: Revenue related to the sales of light-out sensors to both automotive OEM and non-automotive customers. Number two, direct sales channels that include sale of hardware and software to non-automotive customers that include forklifts, warehouse automation robots, agricultural and mining equipment companies.
Speaker Change: And number three, NRE, or One-Time Development Fee for Customization Projects for Customers in Both Automotive and Industrial.
Speaker Change: From a cash burn standpoint, our new annual OPEX, including R&D and SG&A, is expected to be between $55 million to $60 million per year.
Speaker Change: We believe we have all the necessary engineering resources to deliver on our existing and anticipated customer projects. To summarize, we're really excited about 2024 and beyond.
Anubhav Verma: And number three, the NRE, or One-Time Development Fee for Customization Projects for Customers in Both Automotive and Industrial. From a cash burn standpoint, our new annual OPEX, including R&D and SG&A, is expected to be between $55 million and $60 million per year. We believe we have all the necessary engineering resources to deliver on our existing and anticipated customer projects. To summarize, we're really excited about 2024 and beyond. Operator, I would now like to open the line for questions.
Speaker Change: Operator, I would now like to open the line for questions.
Operator: Thank you. At this time, we are conducting a question and answer session. Investors can submit their questions within the meeting webcast by typing them into the Q&A button on the left side of your viewing screen. Additionally, analysts who publish research may ask questions on the phone line. For analysts, to ask questions on the phone line, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad now to join the queue. We do ask, if you are listening on speakerphone today, that you pick up your handset while asking your question to provide optimal sound quality.
Speaker Change: Thank you. At this time, we are conducting a question and answer session.
Speaker Change: Investors can submit their questions within the meeting webcast by typing them into the Q&A button on the left side of your viewing screen.
Speaker Change: Analysts who publish research may ask questions on the phone line.
Speaker Change: For analysts, to ask questions on the phone line, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad now to join the queue.
Speaker Change: We do ask, if listening on speakerphone today, that you pick up your handset while asking your question to provide optimal sound quality. Once again, for analysts to join the queue to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. Please hold a moment while we poll for questions.
Operator: Once again, for analysts to join the queue to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. Please hold a moment while we poll for questions. And our first question is from Andres Sheppard from Cantor Fitzgerald. Andres, your line is live. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: And our first question is from Andres Sheppard from Cantor Fitzgerald. Andres, your line is live. Please go ahead.
Anand Balaji: Hey guys, this is Anand on behalf of Andres. Thanks for taking our questions and congrats on the quarter. I was wondering, is there maybe some sort of timeline you might be able to give us on an OEM win? Uh, this has been talked about, and, um, is there something we could think about maybe for the second half of this year, or is there something for next year? I mean, none of us have good insight into this, but, you know, any color would help.
Speaker Change: Hey guys, this is Anand on for Andres. Thanks for taking our questions and congrats on the quarter. I was wondering, is there maybe some sort of timeline you might be able to give us on an OEM win?
Speaker Change: This was talked about and is there something we could think about maybe for the second half of this year or is there something for next year? I mean none of us have a good foresight into this but you know any color would help.
Sumit Sharma: I think, thank you for the question, and if I was to just go by, you know, what the OEM shared with us, it's a second half decision. But, as I said, right, we're cautiously optimistic because, as you know, their launch cycles are in SOP, start of production in 2028. So delays could happen. And so far, you know, there are lots of things changing within the OEMs themselves and their strategies. And most of the delays are not related to us, you know, so we're hopeful and cautious about what they're saying. And that's what we're sharing that, you know, the second half of this year is what they have indicated.
Speaker Change: Thank you for the question.
Speaker Change: If I was to just go by, you know, what the OEM shared with us.
Speaker Change: You know, it's a second half decision.
Speaker Change: But as I said, right, we're cautiously optimistic because as you know, their launch cycles are in SOP, start of production in 2028.
Speaker Change: So, delays can happen, and so far, you know, there's lots of things changing within the OEMs themselves and their strategies.
Speaker Change: And most of the delays are not related to us, you know, so.
Speaker Change: We're hopeful and cautious about what they're saying, and that's what we're sharing, that the second half of this year is what they have indicated.
Anand Balaji: Gotcha. And I guess with respect to the seven RFQs, are there any of them that you wanted to highlight that you're excited about? Or if there's something that you could potentially highlight to investors as a catalyst for the company, maybe this year or early next year?
Speaker Change: Gotcha and I guess with respect to the seven RFQs is there are there any of them that you wanted to highlight that you're excited about or if there's something that you could potentially highlight to investors as a catalyst for the company maybe this year or early next year?
Sumit Sharma: What I find interesting is all of them, first of all, are for Passenger Week. If I think about seven of them, right? Would I say that, you know, there are? We want to win all of them, right? But there are certain of them that are high volume that, of course, we put a lot of effort into.
Speaker Change: I think what I find interesting is all of them, first of all, are for...
Speaker Change: Passenger vehicles.
Speaker Change: If I think about seven of them, right, are we...
Speaker Change: two or four of them that are
Speaker Change: That we covered, yeah. It's the ones that have the highest volume and where the integration gives Maven, which has got the lowest profile, the biggest advantage.
Speaker Change: So of course, those we care about. So if you're gonna spend this much and you have to wait four more years for big revenues, they should be big enough, that's great. Out of the seven, some of them are for models that are smaller, that integrate in a headlamp and it's kind of like a small volume.
Speaker Change: part of it. So they're all equal, right? I think, you know, we want to win all of them, right? But there are certain of them that are high volume that of course we put a lot of effort into.
Anand Balaji: Gotcha, gotcha. I appreciate the color.
Speaker Change: Gotcha, gotcha. Appreciate the caller.
Speaker Change: And I guess switching gears, maybe a question for Anubhav, a little bit on liquidity. I think you had on your presentation about $60 million in cash and you've got the ATM as well. I was wondering how you're thinking about your cash burn and your runway for the next, for the rest of the year.
Speaker Change: Yep.
Speaker Change: Thanks Anubhav. So the way I think the the reductions that we did in the second quarter are actually very strategic because they have brought down our OPEX.
Anubhav: And as I mentioned, right now our run rate OPEX, including R&D and SG&A, is between 55 and 60 million.
Anand Balaji: And I guess, switching gears, maybe a question for Anubhav, a little bit on liquidity. I think you had about 60 million in cash in your presentation, and you've got the ATM as well. I was wondering how you think about your cash burn and your runway for the rest of the year.
Speaker Change: As it is, we already have a year's worth of cash.
Speaker Change: And obviously, we have the ATM on top of that to tap into accordingly as the market opportunity presents itself. So we feel pretty comfortable in terms of having the resources to meet our capital needs for the next 12 to 18 months.
Anubhav Verma: Yep, thanks Anand. So the way I think the the reductions that we did in the second quarter are actually very strategic because they have brought down our OPEX and as I mentioned right now our run rate OPEX including R&D and SG&A is between 55 and 60 million so as it is we already have a year worth of cash and obviously we have the ATM on top of that to tap into accordingly as you know as the market opportunity presents itself so we feel pretty comfortable in terms of having the resources to meet our capital needs for the next 12 to 18 months.
Anand Balaji: Gotcha. Sounds good.
Anand Balaji: Got you.
Speaker Change: Gotcha. Sounds good. That's very helpful. Appreciate the caller. Congrats again on the quarter. That's it for me. I'm happy to pass it on.
Anand Balaji: That's very helpful. Appreciate the caller. Congratulations again on the quarter. That's it for me. I'm happy to pass it on. Thanks, Anand.
Operator: I will now turn this call back over to Anubhav Verma to read questions submitted through the webcast. Thank you.
Anand: Thanks, Anand.
honnaabout verma: thank youi will now turn this call back over to honnaabout verma to read questions submitted through the webcast thank you
Anubhav Verma: Alright, so the first question is, I'm a newish investor and started following the company and the LiDAR space only a few years ago. I'm still confused by what everybody says about the 905nm products versus the 1550. Help me understand why you're going to win, and I should stay invested in this stock. I'll take that one.
Anand: ree
Tom: Thanks, Tom.
honnaabout verma: All right, so the first question is, I'm a newish investor and started following the company and LidarSpace only recently, a few years ago.
Speaker Change: I'm still confused by what everybody says about the 905 nanometer products versus the 1550. Help me understand why you're going to win and I should stay invested in the stock.
Sumit Sharma: Thank you for the question. It's actually a very, very good question. It's about the right time to talk about it because a lot of things are coming to a head.
Speaker Change: I'll take that one. Thank you for the question. It's actually a very, very good question. It's about the right time to talk about it because a lot of things are coming to a head.
Sumit Sharma: So just to give you a little bit of context, you're newish to this space, so perhaps you've done this research, but I'm just gonna repeat it for some that may not have. So, if you think about..., you know, this whole purpose of 95 nanometer and 1550, what benefits there are for one versus the other, right? Depending on the audience, they'll say different things. But here are the facts. The only automotive Lidar that shifts in volume. It was by Valeo, Scala, everybody knows this.
Speaker Change: So just to a little bit context, you're newish in the space, so perhaps you've done this research, but I'm just going to repeat it for some that may not. So if you think about...
Speaker Change: You know, this whole purpose of 95 nanometer, 1550, what benefits in one versus the other, right? Depending on the audience, they'll say different things. But here are the facts.
Speaker Change: The only automotive LiDAR that is shift in volume.
Sumit Sharma: Scala 1 was done by the IBO guys here in Humber, and Scala 2 was followed on by them. It's the only thing that's shipped in volume. Let's be clear about that. That's 9.5 nanometers, fully qualified with a laser that the automotive customers know. They know the cost structure, they know the performance, they know everything about it. What they care about is the steering mechanism, which is where we come with MEMS, where we can have a wide field of view and far-range and low resolution, whereas others spin a piece of glass called a prism, right? 1550 nanometer certainly can do a lot. You can do a continuous wave LIDAR with that, you can get velocity, you can do a time of flight LIDAR with that like somebody else does, right?
Speaker Change: It was by Valeo, Scala, everybody knows this. Scala 1 was done by the Ideal guys here in Hamburg, and Scala 2 was followed on by them. It's the only thing that's shipped in volume. Let's be clear about that.
Speaker Change: That's 905 nanometer fully qualified with a laser that the automotive
Speaker Change: Customers know, they know the cost structure, they know the performance, they know everything about it.
Speaker Change: What they care about is the steering mechanism, which is where we come with MEMS, where we can do a wide field of view and far range and low resolution, whereas others spin a piece of glass called a prism, right?
Speaker Change: 1550 nanometers certainly can do a lot. You can do a continuous-wave LIDAR with that. You can get a velocity. You can do a time-of-flight LIDAR with that, like somebody else does, right?
Sumit Sharma: And there are other reasons to do it, because they want to have higher sensitivity in the detector, but the overall system is much more expensive. So if you think about the structure that we have, the architecture that we have with our 905 nanometer laser, and our MEMS, and the electronics, it is the lowest cost, lowest form factor system. And no power, whereas a 1550 is significantly more powerful, regardless of what people say.
Speaker Change: And there are other reasons to do it because they want to have a higher sensitivity on the detector, but the overall system is much more expensive.
Speaker Change: So, if you think about, you know, the structure that we have, the architecture that we have with our 905 nanometer laser, and our MEMS, and the electronics, it is the lowest cost, lowest form factor system.
Sumit Sharma: On top of that, the material physics that's over there in 1550. So you can imagine you're going into an industry that wants to sell them for millions, and they're not known for paying premiums. They pay premiums on software; they don't pay premiums on hardware. So you're best off listening to the OEM, seeing where they're going, and there is a very nice laser that's been qualified that's already there.
Speaker Change: and no power whereas ' teen and fifty is significantly more power regardsto what people say on top of that the
Anand: the material physics that's over there in 1550.
Anand: requires billions of dollars investment to bring it down to the level what a laser diode cost us right now. So you can imagine you're going into industry that wants to sell in the millions, and they're not known for paying premiums. They pay premiums on software. They don't pay premium on hardware.
Anand: So, you're best off listening to the OEM, seeing where they're going, and there is a very nice laser that's been qualified that's already there. So we chose to build our architecture around it, because we know a lot about that laser, and so does the OEM base, and the only competitor that's ever shipped anything. So, I think that's the key thing to walk away on.
Sumit Sharma: So we chose to build our architecture around it because we know a lot about that laser, and so does the OEM base and the only competitor that's ever shipped anything. So I think that's the key thing to walk away on, a LiDAR system with a 9.5 nanometer laser can be made eye-safe. There's a whole body that does the testing for that, right? There are standards written for that. There's no doubt. And the only company that's ever shipped LIDAR in volume into the automotive space is 9-1-1. So, in general, I believe 905 nanometer is the right choice for the automotive space for high volume production long-term.
Anand: a LiDAR system with a 9.5 nanometer laser.
Anand: can be made eye safe. I mean, there's a whole body that does the testing for that, right? There's standards written for that. There's no doubt. And the only company that's ever shipped LiDAR in volume into automotive is 905.
Anand: So, I think in general...
Anand: I believe 905 nanometer is the right choice for the automotive space.
Sumit Sharma: You have to run this product for a decade, so you want to have the most stable system that does not keep requiring hundreds of millions of dollars of investment to have new laser sources developed, new sensing sources to be developed, and new ASICs to be developed. So that's what we believe, that's what we've invested in, and clearly, if you look at what the OEMs respond to, it is that. 9.5 nanometer technology note
Anand: for high volume production, long term. You have to run this product for a decade.
Anand: So you want to have the most stable system that does not keep requiring hundreds of millions of dollars of investment to have, you know, you know, new laser sources to be developed, new sensing sources to be developed, a new agent to be developed. So that's what we believe, that's what we've invested. And clearly, if you look at what the OEMs respond to is that.
Speaker Change: 9.5 nanometer technology note
Anubhav Verma: Thanks, Sumit. Let's take a second question. So I understand that no deals with OEMs have been announced, unlike some of the competition. I am a believer in the company and management and trust that they walked away from some deals as they were not high volume. I also understand the focus to bring in near-term revenue from the industrial market. What has the management done since April 1st, 2024, to increase the adoption of LiDAR? How can I evaluate the progress that's being made in this direction? I'll take that.
Sumit Sharma: Thanks, Sumit.
Speaker Change: Let's take a second question. So I understand that no deals at OEMs have been announced unlike some of the competition.
Speaker Change: I am a believer in the company and management and trust that they walked away from some deals as they were not high volume. I also understand the focus to bring in near-term revenue from the industrial markets.
Speaker Change: What has the management done since April 1st, 2024 to increase the adoption of LiDAR? How can I evaluate the progress that's being made in this direction?
Sumit Sharma: That's a good question, and I'll answer it in two sections. One is, of course, our industrial space. The other is going to be on the automotive side, so in the industrial space. What we've done, you know, we've been doing consistently, right, but since you're saying April 1st, we're focusing on key accounts, meaning that we've identified a market segment. We know the top people in there in that space; I would say that represents 70% of the market share for their product in that space. Andres Sheppard, Drew Markham, Anubhav Verma, Sumit Sharma, Kevin Garrigan, Anand Balaji, You know, our treasure in our engineers and a very small effective sales team that targets these key customers. And for them, we are.
Speaker Change: I'll take that. That's a good question and I'll answer it in two sections. One is going to be of course our industrial space.
Speaker Change: The other is gonna be on the automotive side. So on the industrial space.
Speaker Change: What we've done, we've been doing consistently, right? But since you're saying April 1st.
Speaker Change: We're focusing on key accounts, meaning that we've identified a market segment. We know the top people in that space, I would say that represents 70% of the market share for their product in that space.
Speaker Change: and we're engaged with them directly. So we aggressively work with them on key strategic accounts. So instead of thinking about industrial sales as sounding like onesie, twosie here and there like some other of our competitors do, that requires a huge OpEx. We're focusing our, you know,
Speaker Change: You know, our treasure on our engineers and a very small effective sales team that targets these key customers.
Speaker Change: And for them, we are.
Sumit Sharma: Customizing our products, so to speak, with the software to demonstrate to them how we can really solve the problem. So we're not really selling them a LiDAR; we're selling them a solution. And software discussions, I can tell you this because I've been to all the key customers myself with my team. They are pretty deep into it, right? What really compels them to move forward is the software. Imagine you are in a heavy industry space where you have humans operating machines that can hurt other humans, slow speeds moving around, and volumes in the annual range of something, somewhere between 10 to 30,000. If you can imagine, because they would be able to put them into new products going forward, but also retrofit them to other equipment that's sold over the years because some of the equipment lasts more than a So they have an installed base. So when you think about these volumes, it's pretty compelling.
Sumit Sharma: And somebody actually told me this statistic recently, that about 100 people, actually, one of my board members told me this, about 100 people die a year in this space. So think about it. A person dies in this space once every three days.
Speaker Change: A person dies in this space. Once every three days. This is a problem. They want to solve this is our Dodge and of course, you can think about injury as well.
Sumit Sharma: This is a problem they want to solve. This is, or dies, and of course, you can think about injury as well. So this is a real problem to solve. And what compels them is not just the LIDAR, LIDAR, LIDAR, LIDAR. That's there, absolutely. That's a piece of hardware.
Speaker Change: So this is a real problem to solve and what compels them is not just a light or lighter and lighter and lighter that's there absolutely that's the piece of hardware.
Sumit Sharma: But it's the software that was created for the automotive OEM, which we call the perception software, and features like automatic Emergency Braking or, you know, ACC and others, right, free space, that allows them to do things in their field of view automatically from our LIDAR. So they don't have to write huge amounts of code or spend a lot of money developing code on top of the LIDAR that could take years. I think, you know, some of the videos that we have published recently about this. We've been, you know, very active about that. Our team works on it. We will collect some videos.
Speaker Change: Software that was created for the automotive OEM, which we call the perception software.
Sumit Sharma: You know, those are actually part of real demonstrations that we published there. But it kind of shows you the kind of environment you're working in. And now imagine that happening a 20-hour shift per day, seven days a week, just in America by itself, right?
Speaker Change: And features like automatic emergency braking or.
Speaker Change: ACC and others right.
Speaker Change: Free space that allows them to do things in their field of view automatically from our lidar. So they don't have to derive huge months gold or spend a lot of money developing code on top of the ladder that could take years I think some of the videos that we have published recently about this we've been very active a lot that our team works on it we collect some videos.
Speaker Change: Those are actually far from real demonstrations.
Speaker Change: I've republished there, but it kind of shows you the kind of environment Youre working in and I imagine that happening a 20 hour shifts per day seven days a week just in America by itself right.
Sumit Sharma: And then imagine it, America and, you know, parts of Europe and parts of Asia. So it's a big market. There's a big problem, and that's what we're focused on. And the way we're turning that over is focusing on key accounts, not instead of, you know, casting a wide net... On the automotive OEMs, you know, after what happened in Q1, it really was not a surprise, but we'll talk a little bit more about it if we have to, but just in general, right?
Speaker Change: Then imagine it America and parks.
Speaker Change: Parts of Europe parts of Europe, and parts of Asia. So it's a big market. There is a big problem and Thats. We are focused on and the way we're turning that over is focusing on key account not instead of casting a wide net.
Speaker Change: Well the automotive Oems.
Speaker Change: After what happened in Q1 really was not a surprise, but we'll talk a little bit more about it if you have too.
Speaker Change: But just in general right, we chose to engage more directly me personally also with the Oems that we are in the <unk> and tried to figure out from them or their executive teams.
Sumit Sharma: We chose to engage more directly, me personally, also with the OEMs that we are in the RFUs and try to figure out from them or their executive teams where this is all headed so we're more intimately connected. What's come out of this is that, you know, RFQs are kind of like generic, right? That's how you think about it. Like, you know, it's an RFQ.
Speaker Change: Well this is all headed so weird more intimately connected.
Speaker Change: What's come out of this is that.
Speaker Change: <unk> are kind of like generic right. That's how you think about it like it is in our Q, but what they're really looking for something a little bit deeper and.
Sumit Sharma: What they're really looking for is something a little bit deeper. And I mean, the best way to describe it is that they are looking for more of a deeper collaboration with somebody special, in more of a white box approach. So effectively, we would work in a collaborative manner because there are things that we can do in our hardware that would enable them and give them an advantage, reducing the cost of their system, and it would not be that incredibly expensive to develop. But on top of that is the perception software we have that allows them to have an advantage. Now, this is kind of a tricky thing, right?
Speaker Change: I mean, the best way to describe it is what they're looking for is a more of a deeper collaboration with somebody special.
Speaker Change: And more of a white box approach so effectively we would work in a collaborative manner, because there's things that we can do in our hardware that would enable them and give them an advantage, reducing the cost of their system and it would not be that incredibly.
Speaker Change: Expensive to develop but on top of that as the perception of software. We have that allows them to have an advantage. Now this is kind of a tricky thing right.
Sumit Sharma: That's IP, but we wanna make sure that we actually control our IP going forward and the value that it creates for our investors, but we also need a partnership. So I think you have to look deeper. You have to when they open up and say, you know what, we wanna explore a white box approach with you. And of course, and this has just happened in the last quarter.
Speaker Change: But we want to make sure that we actually control, our IP going forward and the value that it creates for investors, but we also need a partnership. So I think you have to look deeper you have to when they open up and say you know what we want to explore a white box approach with you and of course. This has just happened in the last quarter.
Sumit Sharma: We're involved in that to make sure that we support them as they need to explore what their product would be. You know, software is such a big deal now that no one team can develop all the software. To think about an Ice Engine, ignition control, that's not done by an OEM. They probably go to Bosch or somebody else that does ignition control. So all that software is their IP.
Speaker Change: We're involved in that to make sure that we support them as they need to explore what the product would be.
Speaker Change: <unk> is such a big deal now that no one team can develop all the software.
Speaker Change: If you think about it.
Speaker Change: Ice engine.
Speaker Change: Emission control, that's not done by an OEM, they probably go to Bosch or somebody else the designation control all the Salford their IP. So ultimately the space is going to go back to that so our perception software is valid it's very very valuable the hardware installed base is what this perception that's going to enable an OEM starting to look at it as a more customizable feature that suited for them.
Sumit Sharma: So ultimately, the space is gonna go back to that. So our perception software is valid. It's very, very valuable. The hardware installed is what this perception is gonna enable, and OEMs started to look at it as a more customizable feature that suited for them. I think that's what we're focusing on and that's what we're giving ourselves confidence that we are really competitive, still competitive in this. Thanks so much.
Speaker Change: I think that's what we're focusing ourselves and that's what we're giving ourselves confidence that we are going to competitive still competitive in this space.
Amit: Thanks, Amit.
Anubhav Verma: Next question is, seeing the HASAI news this week has us start to feel worried. HASAI is announcing new design wins with GM, Ford, and a prominent European automotive brand and announcing that it has secured design wins with 18 OEMs and Tier 1 suppliers globally covering approximately 70 vehicle models as of Q1. The company also holds mass production agreements with six of the top 10 Fortune 500 automakers. We know that Sumit has never said that he is targeting the Chinese market, but it leaves us concerned as to what the future holds for MicroVision if we do not get a similar announcement.
Speaker Change: Our next question is seeing the Husain news. This week has started has started to feel very <unk>.
Speaker Change: As far as announcing new design wins with GM Ford and prominent European automotive brand and announcing that it has secured design wins at 18, Oems and tier one suppliers globally covering approximately 70 vehicle models as of Q1 the.
Speaker Change: The company also host mass production agreements with six of the top 10 Fortune 500 automakers.
Speaker Change: We know that someone has never said that he started getting the Chinese market, but it leaves us concern as to what the future holds for Microvision.
Speaker Change: If we do not get a similar announcement.
Anubhav Verma: Let me take this question and give you a financial perspective on this. I think we have seen Chinese LiDAR companies clocking almost over $250 million in annual revenue, selling over 220,000 LiDARs every year. Yet, the U.S. markets and investors do not give them any credit. They are trading just barely over their cash value, which I think is a very important testament and a telling sign that the U.S. markets and investors do not have confidence or comfort in their business model. And remember, this is not the first time that this has happened.
Speaker Change: Let me take this question and give you a.
Speaker Change: Our financial perspective of this I think we have seen Chinese that accompanies clocking almost over $250 million in annual revenue selling over 220000 Litres every year.
Speaker Change: Yet the U S markets and the investors do not give them any credit they are trading just barely over their cash.
Speaker Change: Cash value.
Speaker Change: Which I think is a very important testament and a telling sign that the U S market that investors do not have the confidence or the comfort in their business model.
Speaker Change: And remember this is not the first time that this has happened.
Anubhav Verma: This is a very important area because governments are getting involved, and all the U.S. and EU OEMs are in the middle of it. As recently as a few days ago, the U.S. Commerce Department came out with an article proposing to bar Chinese software in autonomous vehicles in the U.S. Now, that is a very significant shift for everybody who has been using Chinese LIDAR in the U.S. and EU so far. So data privacy is clearly a very important concern.
Speaker Change: This is a very important.
Speaker Change: Area, because governments are getting involved in all the U S and EU Oems are in the middle of it as recently as a few days ago. The U S Commerce Department.
Speaker Change: <unk> came out with an article to propose two bar Chinese software in autonomous vehicles in the U S that is a very significant shift for everybody who had been using Chinese lidar in the U S and EU. So we're so far so data privacy is a very clearly a very important concern and I feel.
Anubhav Verma: And I feel that this is why there's going to be a barrier between the U.S. and China, where obviously we cannot sell in China. And the Chinese LIDAR players will not be able to be successful in the U.S. markets, just given the transparency and given where the political climate is. Now, having said all that, I think it is becoming beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a LIDAR market here in the U.S. and EU, and that demand can only be fulfilled by American LIDAR companies which are headquartered in the. Now, let me take the next question.
Speaker Change: This is why there's going to be a barrier between the U S and Chinese.
Speaker Change: But obviously, we cannot go sell in China, and the Chinese will not be able to be successful in the U S market, just given the transparency and given where the political climate is having.
Speaker Change: Having said all that I think it is becoming beyond clear doubt that there is a light our market here in the U S and EU and that demand can only be fulfilled by American lidar companies, which are headquartered in the U S.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Let me take the next question.
Anubhav Verma: I understand that the company is trying to capture market share in the industrial space where Alstair is deeply entrenched. How does MicroVision plan to capture market share? Let me take that. All right.
Speaker Change: I understand that the company is trying to capture market share in the industrial space, where <unk> is deeply entrenched.
Speaker Change: Does microvision plan to capture market share.
Speaker Change: Let me take that.
Speaker Change: Alright.
Anubhav Verma: I think if you think about the industrial space, I think you have to cast your vision wider. There's a much bigger market than one LIDAR company whose revenues people follow. And I think I mentioned names today. If you think about, if you really want to understand the market, think about sick aging.
Speaker Change: I think the thing about the industrial space I think you have to cast your vision bigger there's a much bigger market than one Lidar company, whose revenues people follow that.
Speaker Change: And I think I mentioned named today, if you think about if you really want to understand the market think about sick AG that one company by itself is a majority of the lidar market in the industrial space. They sell a line sensor right and effectively.
Anubhav Verma: That one company by itself is a majority of the LIDAR market in the industrial space. They sell a line sensor, right? And effectively, it's not a 3D sensor. It's, effectively, a 2D sensor, and one version's got four lines, and there may be an eight-line version.
Speaker Change: It's not a <unk> sensors like our factory to the sensor and one version has got four lines, maybe a headline version, whereas our smallest product that we make right in our multi year al they've got like 80 lines and uneven product. We've got like $500. So these are vertical lines of scan. So you can imagine that the amount of resolution we can get.
Anubhav Verma: Whereas our smallest product that we make right now, our Movia L, has got like 80 lines. And our Maven product has got like 500 lines. So these are vertical lines of scans. You can imagine the amount of resolution we can get. So, and the Movia sensor, the Movia L-sensor is ready now.
Speaker Change: And the <unk> sensor will be al sensors ready now for the real differentiator is if you think about integrator.
Anubhav Verma: Well, the real differentiator is, if you think about an integrator, you know, somebody in the industrial space. They have a LiDAR, but what do they do with it? You know, they have to write a bunch of code for the point cloud to enable it. In the case of SIC, they have things like zone detection that they can give them a warning about, and the vehicle has to take some action. That's not real perception. That's just, you know, some zones just trickling off, you know, red, yellow, green light.
Speaker Change: Somebody in the industrial space.
Speaker Change: They've got a lidar, but what do they do with it they have to write a bunch of code for the point cloud to enable them in.
Speaker Change: In the case of safety.
Speaker Change: Zone detection that they can give them warning in the vehicle has to take some action that's not real perception thats just some zones, just tripling off red yellow Green light.
Anubhav Verma: But what we can do is provide them with all the software to the level where we can actually instruct these, you know, heavy industrial vehicles to stop or to slow down or to, you know, like, for example, if two of them are going, the one in front is carrying a heavier load and is moving slower, while the one behind is coming at a higher speed, and the operator does not notice. Instead of rear-ending or slamming on the brakes, and, you know, their payload goes and hurts somebody else, the vehicle automatically starts following the speed of the one in front. Now, think about that. That's no different than ACC, you know, Adaptive Cruise Control, in some of the cars that most of us, most cars have ACC nowadays.
Speaker Change: But what we can do.
Speaker Change: As we can provide them all the software to the level, where we can actually shrunk.
Speaker Change: Heavy industrial vehicles to stop or slow down or two like for example, if two of them are going to one in front of us carrying a heavier load and it's moving slower the one behind it's coming at a higher speed and the operator doesn't notice instead of rearending or slamming on the brakes and their payload goes and heard somebody else that the vehicle automatically starts following the speed.
Speaker Change: The one in front I think about that that's no different than ACC adaptive cruise control that some of the cars that most of us but most of those cars have ACC. Nowadays so you can imagine that.
Anubhav Verma: So, you can imagine that in the industrial space. You have somebody that, you know, by their own ambition, that their expectation is like 850 million euros a year of revenue from the LiDAR space, okay? So it's a big market, And that's just one player.
Speaker Change: In the industrial space.
Speaker Change: You have somebody that by their own admission that their their expectations at 850 million euros, a year of revenue from the Lidar space. Okay. So its a big market and Thats, just one player and Theres, others actually and they have actually a much bigger market that they're planning to go after okay.
Anubhav Verma: And there are others, actually. And they have a much bigger market that they're planning to go after, okay? For us, that is it.
Anubhav Verma: So focus on that market, take some of the key segments, places that we have an advantage, where our software is a differentiator, where we can get a partner up and running quicker. We would license the software to them, but they would have to buy the hardware.
Speaker Change: For us that is it to focus on that market takes some of the key segments that we have an advantage where our software is a differentiator, but we can get a partner up and running quicker.
Speaker Change: We would license the software to them they would have to buy the hardware and through that deal. We enabled them to actually have content. Because we may have been an industry, where there's a wall that China market is different in the U S and European market is different where Chinese will not be coming in but they compete in this space the vehicles heavy industrial vehicles out there.
Anubhav Verma: And through that deal, we enable them to actually have content because we may be in an industry where... There's a wall that the Chinese market is different, the U.S. and European market is different, where Chinese will not be coming in, but they compete in the space. The vehicles, the heavy industrial vehicles that they make, they compete against the Chinese. And so, therefore, and the Chinese vehicles are cheaper, but if they give a higher level of safety as part of their product, they'll be able to compete.
Speaker Change: Make the <unk>.
Speaker Change: Computer taking the Chinese and so therefore in the Chinese vehicles are cheaper, but if they give higher level of safety as part of their.
Speaker Change: Their product they will be able to compete and again. This is not something that I ready to market report I've actually visit the customers and talk to the leadership and this is their biggest concern and I asked them. What are the three problems. We wanted to solve for you as soon as possible. So we can partner and the number one is can you actually give us something like enable them with our software and kind of some intuit partnership so.
Anubhav Verma: And again, this is not something that I've read about in the market before. I've actually visited the customers and talked to the leadership, and this is their biggest concern. And I asked them, what are the three problems you want me to solve for you as soon as possible so we can partner? And the number one was, can you actually give us something, like, you know, enable them with our software in kind of a, you know, some intimate partnership?
Anubhav Verma: So again, that's how we're looking at it. That's how we intend to capture the market, which is, we have an asset. It is not impinging upon our capability to go after the really big market called automotive, LiDAR, and software in the future. But if you can enable a partner right now and get embedded, and we can bridge the gap from today till that revenue starts, then we should leverage.
Speaker Change: Again, that's how we're looking at it that's how we intend to capture the market, which is we have an asset it is not impinging upon our capability to go after the really big market called automotive Lidar and software in the future, but it's going to enable a partner right now and get embedded and we can bridge the gap from today until that revenue starts than we should leverage what we have.
Amit: Thanks, Amit thank.
Speaker Change: Thank you I'm sorry next question.
Operator: We do have a question from the dial-in line right now from Kevin Garrigan of West Park Capital. Kevin, your line is live; please go ahead.
Amit: We do have a.
Speaker Change: A question from the dial in line right now from Kevin Garrigan of West Park capital.
Speaker Change: Kevin Your line is live please go ahead.
Kevin Garrigan: Yeah, hi everyone. Thanks for letting me ask a couple questions. I hopped on late, so I apologize if you may have answered some of these already, but Um, you know, we've started to see robo taxis or L4 vehicles kind of make a comeback over the last few months. I'd say, you know, you have Tesla talking about it. You have Uber making their fleet. The seven RFQs that you're in, are any of those for L4? Or are they all kind of geared more towards L2 plus and L3?
Kevin Garrigan: Yes, hi, Thanks for letting me ask a couple of questions I hopped on late so I apologize. If you may have answered some of these already but.
Speaker Change: We are starting to see Robo taxis are all Ford vehicles kind of make a comeback over the last few months I'd say you know jobs.
Speaker Change: We're talking about it.
Hoover: Hoover, making there.
Speaker Change: Our fleet the seven rfps that you're in or any of those for all four are they all kind of geared more towards LTE plus in all three.
Sumit Sharma: All the RFQs we're in are for L3 and L2+.
Hoover: All the Rfps were in or for L. Three and now two plus.
Kevin Garrigan: Okay, perfect. And then Sumit, you kind of answered this a little bit as part of the last question, but, you know, I know you're not looking to go into the Chinese market, but just with the recent talks of the US looking to ban Chinese automotive software, have you seen an increase in engagement with Chinese OEMs where they're looking to just use, you know, all non-Chinese suppliers for the European or US markets?
Hoover: Okay perfect.
Speaker Change: And then.
Speaker Change: Sumit you you've kind of answered this a little bit on as part of the last question, but you know I know.
Speaker Change: Youre not looking to go into the Chinese market, but just with the recent talks of the U S. Looking to ban Chinese automotive software have you seen an increase in engagement with Chinese Oems, where theyre looking at just use all non Chinese suppliers for the European or U S markets.
Speaker Change:
Sumit Sharma: I'm not really sure I can, you know, definitively or with authority say that, right? I mean, you hear things, right? But I don't think it's probably appropriate for me to just talk about some rumor that I've heard from someplace, right?
Speaker Change: I'm not really sure I can.
Speaker Change: Definitively over this already say that right I mean, you hear things right, but I don't think it's probably appropriate for me to just talk about some rumor that I've heard from some place right. What I can clearly tell you is I've been to Oems multiple Oems, who have said that.
Kevin Garrigan: What I can clearly tell you is I've been to OEMs, multiple OEMs, and they've said that These are OEMs in the U.S. and Europe that have clearly said that their management decision is that moving forward, they're not going to entertain any Chinese supply chain, even in your LiDAR. So they want to know, yeah, great that you're an American-German company, but what key components are, where are they coming from? They want to know your value chain.
Speaker Change: These are Oems and U S and Europe has clearly said that Theyre Madison decision is that moving forward, they're not going to entertain any Chinese supply chain, even in your lidar. So they want to know, yes, greater Euro American German company, but what's key components are where theyre coming from the one where your value chain. So as to the point, where we cannot even to use some of the key components that go inside our lidar.
Kevin Garrigan: So it's to the point where we cannot even use some of the key components that go inside our LiDAR come from the Chinese supply chain. So I know that doesn't answer your question, but I'm telling you the gravity of what is happening right now in this space, where EV cars and fully autonomous driving for the future are seen as key technological areas that, you know, the European Union and American companies want to own, both American OEMs want to own, and China's got its own firewall that it has created for itself, right? So that's probably the better way to answer that question.
Speaker Change: To come from the Chinese supply chain. So I know that doesn't answer your question, but I'm, telling you the gravity of what is happening right now in this space, where EV cars and fully know Adas and autonomy for the future. These are seeing as key technological areas that no.
Speaker Change: The European Union and American companies that want to own North American Oems want to own and China has got its own firewall that they have created for themselves right. So that's probably the better way to ask that question.
Kevin Garrigan: Yep, got it, got it. Okay, that makes sense. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Got it got it okay that makes sense. Thank you.
Kevin Garrigan: Thanks, Kevin.
Anubhav Verma: The next question is, I've been a long-term shareholder in the company, and all I've heard from the management is that our products are best in class. And yet, there have been no deals that have been announced. I've also heard the management point out the shortcomings of other light-out layers. I don't want to hear about other players.
Speaker Change: The next question is.
Speaker Change: Been a long term shareholder in the company and all I've heard us from the management that our products are best in class.
Speaker Change: Yet there have been no deals that have been announced.
Speaker Change: I've also heard the management point out the shortcomings of other lidar players I.
Speaker Change: I don't want to hear about other players I want to understand how microvision woven helped me become a believer.
Sumit Sharma: I want to understand how MicroVision will win. Help me become a believer. I'll take that. I think, um... I think before you can pick out, you know, a winner, like where you want to put your money, think about the space. Think about what's happening. There's clearly, like if governments are getting involved, if a lot of companies are, you know, not the source information, but the OEMs are, that tells you there's a market that's developing that's going to be around for decades because there's some sort of major transformation, major disruption happening in transportation, right?
Speaker Change: I'll take that.
Speaker Change: I think.
Andrew: That's a fair question to be honest with you. That's a very fair question I'm a shareholder in the company also by the way and not just the shares that none of our of Andrew right. Now just the shares of the company. The signed me as part of my employment, but Im a shareholder in the company. So that's a great question I clearly am a believer. So let me convince you why it needs to be the lever.
Speaker Change: I think before you can pick up on a winter like where you want to put your money think about this space think about what's happening. There is clearly like if governments are getting involved a flatter companies are not.
Andrew: The source of information, but the Oems are that tells you that the market is developing that's going to be around for decades, because theres. Some sort of major transformation major disruption is happening in transportation right. So if you think about disruption the industry has a lot to get disrupted and it has been trying to get it's all disruptive for five years and it's going to take another five years, I guess right, but it's big enough that there.
Sumit Sharma: So if you think about disruption, the industry is about to be disrupted, and it's been trying to get itself disrupted for five years, and it's going to take another five years, I guess, right? But it's big enough that there are just a lot of people involved, where governments are involved now, right? So that's, believe it or not, good news.
Speaker Change: There's just a lot of people involved where governments are involved now right. So thats believe it or not good news that tells you. There is an opportunity here and the opportunity is that the current players which is a typical tier ones. They do not have a leg up on anything.
Sumit Sharma: That tells you there's an opportunity here. And the opportunity is that current players, which is a typical Tier 1, do not have a leg up on anything. So, the true value of their shares is, you know, already where it is; this new space as it breaks up, where new revenues will come in, and there'll be a great opportunity to sell software with higher margins is becoming open. So that's to keep in mind.
Andrew: So the true value of their shares is already to where it is this new space as it breaks up where new revenues will come in and it'll be great opportunity to sell software with higher margin.
Sumit Sharma: There's a market segment opening up, a massive market segment opening up that will last for decades, and there will be players. And the current big-tier ones that you think about, none of them have the technology. Okay, and one of them that partnered with another LiDAR company admitted, their CEO admitted, that they lost a quarter of a billion dollars trying to industrialize that. So there's evidence that people are playing with real money in this space, and somebody's gonna win. Okay, but why am I a believer?
Andrew: Is becoming open so that's keep in mind there is a market segment opening up and massive market segment opening up that will last for decades, and there'll be player and a current big tier ones that you think about none of them have the technology.
Speaker Change: Okay, and one of them that are partnered with another larger company admitted you admitted that loss a quarter of a $1 billion.
Andrew: Trying to industrialize that so there is evidence that people are playing with real money in this space and somebody is going to win okay.
Andrew: Why am I believer.
Sumit Sharma: Yes, we're a little company, right? We don't have 1000 employees, but that's not what you need. Right now, we're in the phase where you go develop the product and get some partnerships done. All right.
Speaker Change: Yes, we were a little company right. We don't have 1000 employees, but that's not what you need right. Now we are in the phase II to go develop the product and get some partnership down alright, and those partnerships are going to be for revenue, but you know what it's not going to be everybody talking about dilution of shareholder value Trust me.
Sumit Sharma: And those partnerships are going to be for revenue. But you know what? It's not going to be everybody who talks to me about dilution and shareholder value. Trust me, I live that every day. I lose a lot of sleep over that. I can assure you that I think about that all the time. We all do.
Andrew: Live that every day and lose a lot of sleep over that I can assure you that I think about that all of them all of us do alright.
Sumit Sharma: All right, but you have this big opportunity, and on top of that, you have a company that seems to have a lot of things ready, and it's saying the logical thing where it's not going to cost billions of dollars to capture the market. That's ridiculous.
Speaker Change: But you have this big opportunity and on top of that you are a company that seems to have a lot of things ready and is saying the logical thing, where it's not going to cost billions of dollars to capture the market.
Sumit Sharma: There are no billions of dollars as a public company that you can raise just to capture the market because the market size to recover those billions of dollars is going to take you like three decades. So that doesn't make any sense. So we've done everything right. We've spent kind of trickle along the least amount of what makes business sense. And we have the goods. We have the technology. Some of you have come and seen it, right?
Speaker Change: That's ridiculous theres no billions of dollars as a public company that you can raise just to capture the market because the market size to recover that billions of dollars is going to take you like three decades that doesn't make any sense. So we've done everything right. We've spent.
Andrew: Kind of trickle, along least amount of what makes business sense and we have the goods. We have the technology. Some of you have come and seen it right.
Sumit Sharma: But think about just your judgment, right? I think you walk up to something; you walk up to a car that you have to buy someday. Are you ever going to buy it with a big button on the roof? Does not matter if you're an investor. You have to buy a car for your family.
Speaker Change: Think about just your judgment right I think you walk up to something you walked through a car they have to buy some day are you ever going to buy with a big bump out on the roof doesn't matter you invest where you have to buy a car for your family you want this Adas feature where you are.
Sumit Sharma: You want that ADAS feature. Well, you're going to want it to look nice because it's still a $50,000, $70,000 vehicle in the future. So, therefore, it's going to be important. What sensor?
Speaker Change: I wanted to look nice because it's still a 50000 and $70000 vehicle in the future. So therefore, it's going to be important, but what sensor well I don't think you buy the car for the sensor you buy it because of the embedded software is there and you drive the car, but absolute beautiful so far out of all the companies out there. There's only one that actually has a product that can actually do that she got us which has us in the mail.
Sumit Sharma: Well, I don't think you buy the car for the sensor. You buy it because it's embedded. The software is there, and you drive the car. It has to look beautiful.
Sumit Sharma: Well, so far, out of all the companies out there, there's only one that actually has a product that can actually do that, achieve that, which is us with the Maven product. And we're taking the product that the team here in Germany created, the Mobia product, which is the Mobia L, which clearly cannot fit into the car, cannot get integrated into the car in the most beautiful manner. And we're actually investing in it to miniaturize that further. Once that's done, you could actually provide LiDAR hardware and your software running on it.
Speaker Change: Product and were taking the product that the team here in Germany have created the mobile product, which is the mobile L, which clearly cannot get into the car.
Andrew: Can I get integrated into the car and the most beautiful manner and we're actually investing in eco miniaturized that further.
Speaker Change: Once that's done you could actually provide lidar hardware in your software running on his youll have a platform where you own software runs and you'll have an opportunity to go into that market. So you have this big opportunity that the Oems are going after that is going to be enabled by Lidar I know there is one OEM also decided no lidar I think that's okay, we'll find out.
Sumit Sharma: So you'll have a platform where your own software runs, and you'll have an opportunity to go into that market. So you have this big opportunity that the OEMs are going after that is going to be enabled by LiDAR. I know there's one OEM out there that says, "No LiDAR."
Sumit Sharma: I think that's OK. We'll find out where it all ends up. But companies, there's one company here, of course, in Germany that has actually delivered an operational L3 car. I mean, it is at 37 miles per hour, right?
Speaker Change: All ends up but companies Theres one company here of course in Germany that is actually delivered.
Speaker Change: Operational L. Three car I mean, it is at 37 miles per hour right, but it is fully qualified.
Sumit Sharma: But it is fully qualified, so that tells you that a company that has delivered all the innovation in automotive for more than 100 years uses LIDAR, and they're continuously looking for the better LIDAR that goes into their next generation product quality.
Speaker Change: So that tells you that a company that has delivered all the innovation in automotive for more than 100 years pick the lidar and are continuously looking for the better Lidar that goes to their next generation product quality. So therefore.
Sumit Sharma: You know the space is there. You know there's lots of money to be made there. There's a disruption. None of the big tier ones that are in a position that any of us investors could buy into and extract any kind of real value. They're not in it. Some of the technology companies that are there, one of these. No, more than one, I guess, right?
Speaker Change: You know the spaces there.
Speaker Change: Lots of money to be made there is a disruption none of the big tier ones that are at the position that any of us investors could buy into an extract any kind of real value. They are not in it some of the technology companies that are there one of these.
Sumit Sharma: But I would say us. One of us would rise and capture it all if you're aggressive. We're smart about how we step-by-step plan our ascent. So I'm clearly a believer, and I hope you are as well, because think about not just the MicroVision. That's great.
Speaker Change: More than one I guess right, but I would say us one of us would rise and captured all through aggressive we're smart about how we step by step plan.
Speaker Change: So I'm clearly believer and I hope you are as well because think about not just the microvision, that's great and I really want you to think about Microvision I'm glad I'm glad youre investor, but I really want you to think about also is the space, what's really happening in the space and where the opportunities and the opportunity is.
Sumit Sharma: And I'd really want you to think about MicroVision. I'm glad you're an investor. But I really want you to think about the space, what's really happening in the space, and where the opportunity is. And the opportunity is MicroVision creates a product. We create a solution, but the problem exists somewhere else, and the problem can be verified.
Speaker Change: Microvision creates a product we create a solution, but the problem exist somewhere else and that probably can be verified and you can see how much money people are spending on it that kind of tells you the kind of revenues you can get in the near future.
Anubhav Verma: And you can see how much money people are spending on it. That kind of tells you the kind of revenues you can get in the near future. So that's really my thesis on why we should all be believers in the company. And Sumit, if I can add one more thing, because while we talk about our peers, I don't think we're trying to slam our peers, or I think we're just trying to point out the obvious, because talking about the peers is an important aspect, because none of the Lidar companies have, in the U.S., have steady-state revenues, right?
Speaker Change: So that's really my thesis of why we should we all be believers in the company.
Speaker Change: And some of it if I can add one more thing because I think.
Speaker Change: And while we talk about our peers I don't think we're trying to slam our peers are I think we're just trying to point out the obvious because talking about the peers are an important aspect because none of the liner companies have in the U S have.
Speaker Change: Steady state revenues right and I think it's very important about somebody described to have a business model that is sustainable and a capital structure that is tenable right. How can a company burned through $80 million in a quarter with about.
Anubhav Verma: And I think it's very important what Sumit described, to have a business model that is sustainable and a capital structure that is tenable, right? How can a company burn through $80 million in a quarter with revenue that doesn't even match up?
Speaker Change: Our revenue that doesn't even match up and again they talk about the gaps.
Anubhav Verma: And again, they talk about the gaps, the growth in profits widening next quarter. That tells you that this is a cash-guzzling business, and I think that's why the market will be penalizing them. And I think the reason why I'm bringing this up is because all it's saying to us is that the market will decimate companies that are not being thoughtful. And I think the whole idea is, if you are being careful, if you are being prudent, you're going to be one of the few guys who would be able to capture this demand because the demand clearly exists out here.
Speaker Change: The growth.
Speaker Change: Profits widening next quarter that desert view that this is a cash gasoline business and I think that's why the markets really penalizing and I think the reason why I'm, bringing this up is because all it is it saying to US is the market was decimate companies, which are not being thoughtful and I think the whole idea is if you are being <unk>.
Speaker Change: So if you are being prudent youre going to be one of the few guys, who would be able to capture that demand because the demand clearly exists out here and I think thats. The reason why we're trying to not flat, but point out the very obvious facts about the business model and I think it's not about us tooting, our horn, but really pointing out what exists out there and.
Anubhav Verma: And I think that's the reason why we're trying to not slam but point out the very obvious facts about the business model. And I think it's not about us tooting our horn, but really pointing out what else exists out there in the market and how a smart investor would look at investing in a Lidar company. Let's take the next question. How many FTEs are on staff, and what are they primarily spending their time doing? Specifically, we have program managers, salespeople, operations people, and engineers who are currently cost centers of the company without any meaningful revenue or partnerships to keep them occupied.
Speaker Change: The market and how our smart investor will look at investing in a lidar company.
Speaker Change: Let's take the next question how many ftes are on staff and what are they primarily spending their time doing specifically, we have program managers salespeople operations people engineers.
Speaker Change: Who are guardedly cost centers of the company without any meaningful revenue or partnerships to.
Speaker Change: To keep them occupied let.
Anubhav Verma: Let me take that question. So we have 160 engineers after the reductions that we carried out in the second quarter in both the U.S. and Germany working on these products. So you have to understand that these projects are very demanding. It's not like the work that's after the award.
Speaker Change: Let me take that question actually.
Speaker Change: So we have 160 engineered both the reductions that would be carried out in the second quarter in both U S and Germany working on these products.
Speaker Change: So you have to understand that these projects are very demanding.
Speaker Change: Like the works that's after the award we have to be engaged with their customers defining the RFT or responding to the RFP, we're working with their engineers, who understand their technical requirements to understand the problems. They have had with previous lidar.
Anubhav Verma: We have to be engaged with the customers, defining the RFQ, responding to the RFQ, working with their engineers to understand their technical requirements, and to understand the problems they've had with previous LiDAR suppliers that they have used in the past. So they are getting smarter, and I think that's why these engineers are required to be constantly working with the customers' engineers. And obviously, the majority of the work will start afterwards, but I think a lot of the legwork has to be done in order for customers to overcome their business and technological problems.
Speaker Change: Suppliers that they have used in the back so they are getting smarter and I think thats why these engineered are required to be constantly working with these with the customers' engineers and obviously the work will start the majority of the work will start afterwards, but I think a lot of the legwork has to be done in order for the customer to overcome their business problems there.
Speaker Change: Business and technological problem.
Anubhav Verma: So this is where we are using our resources, and that's just for the automotive industry. The same thing is applicable for industrial customers, as Sumit described, because we are essentially using our perception software for solving their ADAS problems and their ADAS problems, their robots, or their heavy equipment, moving at, again, speeds that are not as fast as 80 miles per hour, but still can cause significant damage to either human life or the things that they are carrying.
Speaker Change: This is where we are using our resources and that's it for automotive the same thing is applicable for the industrial customers estimates described because we are essentially using our perception software for solving their problems and they are eight after a limited their robots are there heavy equipment moving at speed.
Speaker Change: Speeds that are not as fast at 80 miles, but that can cause significant damage to either human life or the things that they are Gary. So I think that's where our resources are concentrated and focused on getting these customers.
Anubhav Verma: So I think that's where our resources are concentrated and focused on getting these customers. Let's take the next question. Is MicroVision continuing to explore strategic options, either a takeover or strategic partnerships? Dilution overhangs with little revenue and cash burn appear to be restricting sustainable share price movement. What is the progress that's been made here?
Speaker Change: Let's take the next question.
Speaker Change: Is microvision continuing to explore strategic options, either a takeover or strategic partnerships.
Speaker Change: Dilution overhang with little revenues in cash burn appears to be restricting sustainable share price movement.
Speaker Change: Does the progress that's been made here.
Anubhav Verma: Let me take that question. So look, we are a public company and actually one of the cleanest public companies. We do not, we are not a defect, as you can imagine. As some of these other companies falter and start disappearing from the map, our value inherently rises just because of the bad decisions, and the bad business models the others have created. And, you know, obviously, I cannot comment on what some of the live discussions that are going on.
Speaker Change: Let me take that question. So look we are a public company and actually one of the cleanest public companies. We do not we are not a defects as you can imagine as some of these other companies falter and start disappearing of them that are value inherently rises just because of the bad decision and the bad business models, the others have created.
Speaker Change: Obviously I cannot comment on what are some of the life discussions that are going on but I think we would always be making strategic choices like we did with <unk>.
Anubhav Verma: But I think we would always be making strategic choices, like we did with IBAO, to make sure that we are creating value. And again, the goal is very simple: to have to have a business model that survives uncertainty and the ability to capture the demand when it shows up later this second. So I think it's very important to build a sound business model. And hence, that's why all the discussions around acquisitions and partnerships; we do that as part of corporate development efforts on a regular basis.
Speaker Change: To make sure that we are creating value and again. The goal is very simple to have to have a business model that survives the uncertainty and.
Speaker Change: The ability to capture that demand when it shows up later this I guess I think it's very important to build a sound business model and hence that's why all the discussion around acquisitions and partnerships.
Speaker Change: We do that as part of our corporate development efforts on a regular basis, but like I said, our goal is to build a company that adhere to survive and.
Anubhav Verma: But like I said, our goal is to build a company that is here to survive and thrive and actually capture the demand that exists out there. Let's take the next question. Why was Sumit's contract extended as CEO?
Speaker Change: Price and actually capture the demand that exists out there.
Speaker Change: Let's take the next question.
Speaker Change: What were the reasons, so metals contracts was extended as CEO.
Sumit Sharma: This is not meant to be a snarky question but rather a genuine question that would allow me to address a topic that is on many shareholders' minds. Why have Anubhav and Drew also received Additional Performance Incentive Stock Awards? Sumit, I'll let you take that.
Speaker Change: This is not meant to be a snarky question, but rather a genuine question that would allow.
Speaker Change: To address the topic that is on many shareholders loans why have on.
Speaker Change: Alibaba and drew also received additional performance incentive stock awards.
Speaker Change: So, but I'll, let you take that.
Sumit Sharma: Okay. Yeah, thank you for the question. I think I expected that from this one.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yes. Thank you for the question I think I expect that this one so.
Sumit Sharma: So, Listen, I think, you know, we are committed to the company. I think, think about our board. It's not like, you know, we just award ourselves. This is an independent board, an independent compensation committee. They reviewed it.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: Listen I think we are committed to the company.
Speaker Change: Think about our board. This is not like we just reward ourselves as a independent board independent comp committee that reviewed it I mean.
Speaker Change: I am encouraged that they believe that we have the right people to actually take a ship all the way through the tough storms into some safe harbors.
Speaker Change: And I think we're very thankful that they acknowledged that it was important to have some retention value of the company.
Speaker Change: Look we're not.
Speaker Change: Having equity in the company.
Sumit Sharma: I mean, I'm encouraged that they believe that we are the right people to actually take the ship all the way through the tough storms and to some safe harbors. And, you know, I think we're very thankful that they acknowledged that it was important to have some retention value in the company. Look, we're not, you know, having equity in the company. You know, we're all this, all of us getting cash. So, I know, like everybody believes, as a shareholder, we always believe that, well, you know what? You know, why, why, why, right?
Speaker Change: For all of US all of US given cash flow I know like everybody believes as a shareholder has always believed that well you know what.
Speaker Change: YY right, but.
Sumit Sharma: Having equity in the company actually motivates people because there's a reason to build more, and that's what we're gonna continue doing. But keep in mind that this is our board and our comp committee evaluating the situation and realizing the team that they wanna go forward with because they engage with us day-to-day, right? They engage with us every month and every quarter, and they know what's going on within the company, how we're performing, all the things we're going through to make sure that we make the right choices at the right time and not miss a single beat.
Speaker Change: Having equity in the company actually motivates people because there is a reason to build more and we're going to continue doing so but keep in mind that this is our our board and our comp committee evaluating the situation and realizing the team that they want to go forward with it because.
Speaker Change: They engage with us day to day right. They engage with US every month and every quarter and they know what's going on within the company how theyre performing all of the things we're going through to make sure that we'll make the right choices at the right time.
Speaker Change: And not Miss a single beat.
Sumit Sharma: So I think, you know, certainly want to thank them for acknowledging our contribution to the day. Thanks for that. Do you have any comments about the recent buyout of Septon by Coedo and do you think more companies will consolidate directly under Tier 1s versus partnering? I think that was a very unique one.
Speaker Change: I think so.
Speaker Change: Certainly want to thank them for acknowledging our contribution to the date.
Speaker Change: Thanks, so much.
Speaker Change: Do you have any comments about the recent buyout offset done by Guido and using more companies will consolidate directly under tier one sports is partnering.
Sumit Sharma: I think that was kind of, you know, a challenge a long time ago. I think, you know, where they've ended up, I think, you know, we'll just see in the future whether COITSO is able to deliver a product and how prominent they are. But I think, in my experience, and I think, you know, I started in my prepared remarks, of course, I talked about one tier one that lost nearly a quarter of a billion dollars. So you can imagine, they have no desire to do anything.
Speaker Change: I think that was a very unique one.
Speaker Change: I think that was kind of.
Speaker Change: A long time ago I think.
Speaker Change: Where they've ended up I think we'll just see in the future of our courts always able to deliver a product in a prominent they are.
Speaker Change: But I think.
Speaker Change: In my experience and I think I started out in my prepared remarks of course, I talked about one tier one that lost nearly a quarter of $1 billion. So you can imagine they have no desire to do anything I know for a fact because.
Sumit Sharma: I know for a fact, because when we spoke to them, they said, there's no appetite in the company, any VP who brings this up is going to get fired. Okay, so, all tier ones are going through, like, you know, if you just read in the US and in Germany what the tier ones are doing, right, even in Japan, actually, there's like, they're shutting down programs. And for the first time in decades, right, they had something like 17,000 people getting laid off at some of these companies that have, you know, hundreds of thousands of employees.
Speaker Change: Welcome to vendors.
Speaker Change: The appetite in the company and EVP bring this up is going to get fired okay. So so all tier ones are going through like you know if you just read in the U S and in Germany.
Speaker Change: The tier ones are doing right, even in Japan, actually theres like they're shutting down programs and for the first time in decades right. They had something like 17000 people getting laid off and some of these companies are having a 101000 employees.
Sumit Sharma: So they're going through a transformation as well, you know, their business is going to change as the ICE engine age extends, but still, you know, a portion of it will become an EV towards the end of the decade. I've been around for a long time, but we all know that, but the business model is changing. So are there going to be opportunities for things like that? I mean, who knows? Anybody that's got capital, if they see a big market and they are a believer and the share price is right, why not, right?
Speaker Change: We're going through a transformation as well if their business is going to change as the ice engine H extent, but still a portion of it becomes into EV towards the end of the decade. So I figured it would be wrong for a long time, but we all know that but the business model is changing so is there going to be opportunities for things.
Speaker Change: Things like that I mean, who knows right anybody that's got capital if they see a big market and they are a believer.
Speaker Change: The share prices right why not right our job is to execute on everything we say create value and if the share price reflects that or if there is a premium on that in the market rate and that's what most investors believe in is what the company is doing what the management's doing what evidence are showing.
Sumit Sharma: Our job is to execute on everything we say, and create value. And if the share price reflects that, and if there's a premium on that in the market, great. And that's what most investors believe in: what the company's doing, what the management's doing, what evidence they're showing. But you can imagine if somebody believes that, long-term, there's a bigger value than what the share price represents, that could happen at any time, right? So is it tier one? Or is it somebody else?
Speaker Change: But you can imagine if somebody believes that long term there is a bigger value then with the share price represents.
Speaker Change: That could happen at any time right. So is it tier wanted to somebody else. We're public company right. So as you can imagine thats, that's always on the table.
Sumit Sharma: We're a public company, right? So, as you can imagine, that's always on the table. Thanks, Sumit.
Speaker Change: Thanks, so much.
Anubhav Verma: The next question, to be brutally honest, the takeaways from the last call were that management didn't understand the business environment, questionably put all its eggs in one basket, and now lacks leverage after losing that OEM deal. Ask yourself, how can we square these issues with investors? And our share price has been greatly impacted by these actions. Yeah, I'll take that one.
Speaker Change: The next question to be broadly honest the takeaways on the last call where the management didn't understand the business environment Questionably put all eggs in one basket and now lacks leverage after losing that OEM deal.
Speaker Change: Ask yourself, how can be square these issuers with investors and our share price has been greatly impacted by these actions.
Speaker Change: Yes, I will.
Sumit Sharma: So I was very intimate in that deal, right? And I think I always, I think, get lots of private notes of encouragement from some of you, but also, you know, that you were not so excited about the tone on the last call and how we talked about it, right? So let's just talk about it in more clarity. If we had enough cash balance, If we had alternative revenues, Everything would be done. Everything was fine.
Speaker Change: Take that one.
Speaker Change: So I was very intimated that deal right, so and I think I always I think.
Speaker Change: Lots of private notes of encouragement from some of you, but also that you were not so excited about that.
Speaker Change: But the tone at the last call and we talked about it right. So let's just let's just talk about it.
Speaker Change: Alrighty.
Speaker Change: If we had enough cash balance.
Speaker Change: We had alternative revenues.
Sumit Sharma: We were, you know, Anubhav and I were involved in this since November. It was all about the financial longevity of the company. This is the truth, right? So I think it's a fair question, right?
Speaker Change: Everything was done everything was fine we were unaware of and I were involved in this since November it was all about the financial longevity of the company.
Speaker Change: This is the truth right. So I think like I think it's a fair question right, but I think there's.
Sumit Sharma: But I think there's some context missing, because it was not that we were caught flat-footed. It's not that we were not engaged, that our judgment was impaired because something this large that could transform the company was not just me by myself with a couple of people involved. The board was involved, everybody was involved. Everybody knew what was going on.
Speaker Change: Some context missing.
Speaker Change: Because it was not that we were caught flat footed it's not that we're not engaged that the judgment was impair because something thats large that can transform the company right now.
Speaker Change: Just me by myself with a couple of people involved board was involved everybody who's involved everybody knew what was going on.
Sumit Sharma: But at some point, if somebody keeps moving the goalposts. And the goalpost is, you know, we have very good standing with them. You know, that's a, I mean, you know, we think highly of them. They think highly of us. I think it's all good, but it did not make the deal did not make sense where we would have all the risk. And if on their side there were software delays in development, years could be added to the program. We'll be sitting there idle with all this investment, making all this money, and no revenues will be coming in. So I'm not sure, you know, who posted this question, but.
Speaker Change: But at some point, if somebody keeps moving the goalpost and the goalposts as you know we have very good standing with them.
Speaker Change: I mean, we think highly of them they think highly of us.
Speaker Change: I think it's all good but it does not make a deal that makes sense, where we would have all the risks.
Speaker Change: And if on their side there were software delays in development years could be added to the program, we would be sitting there idle that all this investment making all this money and no revenues will be coming in.
Speaker Change: So I'm not sure.
Speaker Change: Also this question but.
Sumit Sharma: I'm sure some of the investors on the call today remember the April 2017 contract. Imagine that contract, but with a more significant burden, where we would have to have a massive OPEX to support their program, very little input from them, and all the risk that they can delay the program unilaterally because of their side of it. Nothing to do with us, right?
Speaker Change: I'm sure some of the investors on the call today remember the April 2017 contract.
Speaker Change: Imagine that contract, but even with more significant burden, where we would have to have a massive opex to support that program.
Speaker Change: Very little input from them and all the rest are they can delay the program unilaterally on because of their side of it has nothing to do with US right and you have to be cautious because if we had done that right now today, whatever however, you grading our performance right now.
Sumit Sharma: And we have to be cautious because if we had done that right now, today, you know, whatever, how are you grading our performance right now? I'm not really sure with the cash we have, what it can raise, what is happening in the market right now. We will be around.
Speaker Change: I'm not really sure with the cash we have we wont get a raise what is happening in the market right now we would be around it. So we had to take a critical decision and we were very cordial about it and you know we partnered our good terms. We just let them know that we are certainly able to do anything, but we're going to be some financial support and their programs going to support that because they are concerned about their own timelines.
Sumit Sharma: So we have to take a critical decision, and we were very cordial about it, and, you know, we parted on good terms. We just let them know that we are certainly able to do anything, but we're going to need some financial support, and if their programs cannot support that because they're concerned about their own timeline. We certainly thank them for being so upfront with us, like, hey, there's some risk with that. We have to make a critical decision. So I would not say that we were, you know, surprised by it. We put our eggs in one basket. We were in nine RFQs.
Speaker Change: Certainly thanks for being so upfront with us as I say, there is some risk with that.
Speaker Change: We have to make the critical decision. So I would not say that we were.
Speaker Change: Surprised by we put our eggs in one basket, we were in <unk> one of them kind of just melted away because they are redoing their product strategy. So I think.
Sumit Sharma: One of them kind of just melted away because they were redoing their product strategy, so I think, you know. The automotive OEMs will always be a big chunk of our attention because, long-term, that's the biggest revenue opportunity for the company. Real growth and an opportunity to sell lots and lots of software features, okay? So I think we did okay there, but I think it was the right decision. It was the right decision because it would have handicapped us for anything else that we could ever do.
Speaker Change: The automotive Oems will always be a big chunk of our attention because long term. That's the biggest revenue opportunity for the company real growth and an opportunity to sell lots and lots of software features okay.
Speaker Change: So I think we did okay, there, but I think it was the right decision. It was the right decision because it would have handicapped us towards anything else that we could ever do because if you take a program like that with very little opportunities in the future and all your people are working on that every one of these calls be boring because I cannot talk about on the customer who can afford to bring on another 100 to 150 engineers to work on a different program.
Sumit Sharma: Because if you take a program like that with very little revenue opportunity in the future, and all your people are working on that, every one of these calls would be boring because I could not talk about another customer who can't afford to bring on another 100 to 150 engineers to work on a different program. So it was that kind of thing, right?
Speaker Change: So it was that kind of thing right and as I said in the call for the right partner for the right program, but there was a million unit order potential for that that's a risk worth taking right convincing them, but at the same things that we learned from their balance sheet future revenue stability of the company. It would make all the right choices. They know you can be run for decades.
Sumit Sharma: And as I said in the call, for the right partner, for the right program, let's say there was a million-unit order potential for that. That's a risk worth taking, right? Convincing them. But the same things that we learned from there, like the balance sheet, future revenues, and stability of the company, you have to make all the right choices. They know you're going to be around for a decade. It's not just a promissory note that I write. They have to know about it. They have to see it. They have to know that we're going to be around for more than a decade. Thanks, Sumit. I'll take one last question.
Speaker Change: Promissory note that are right. They have to know what they have to see that they believe that they are going to be around for more than a decade.
Amit: Thanks, Amit.
Amit: Take one last question.
Anubhav Verma: Will MicroVision provide additional videos and press releases, and updates outside of quarterly results conference calls? It would be nice if they provided up-to-date information and reassured between quarterly calls that we are on the right path in the future if this was happening. Being kept in the dark doesn't help one bit.
Speaker Change: We'll microvision provide additional videos and press releases updates outside of quarterly results conference call.
Speaker Change: It would be nice if.
Speaker Change: These were provided.
Speaker Change: Updated information and reassured between quarterly calls that we are on the right path in the future and Thats whats happening.
Speaker Change: Being kept in the dark doesn't help one bit.
Anubhav Verma: Let me take this question, and I think, again, this is not an attempt to slam others, but I think context has to be important here. I think we are trying to establish how we run a traditional company where the company is communicated on a regular cadence with the market and informs the markets about wins, contracts, and awards that are significant to the company's future. I think we all agree that we have gone past those days where people are posting selfies; people are posting trivial updates.
Speaker Change: Let me take this question.
Speaker Change: And I think again this is not an attempt to slam others, because but I think context has to be.
Speaker Change: Important here.
Speaker Change: I think we are trying to.
Speaker Change: Ablation, how do we run our traditional company, where the company has communicated on a regular cadence with the markets.
Speaker Change: And informing the market about wind contracts and awards that are significant to the company's future.
Speaker Change: Well, we all have VW are gone fast beyond those days, where people are both being southeast people are posting trivial.
Anubhav Verma: And I think it's reflective in the stock price as well. People can have giant mega media events, and maybe that's what's leading up to the $80 million cash mark, which is, again, going back to discipline, right? Because if you don't use the cash judiciously, clearly, that's not going to help.
Speaker Change: Trivial updates and I think it's reflective in the stock price. So people can have giant mega media events, but and maybe thats, what leading up to the $80 million cash burn which is again.
Speaker Change: It's again going back to the disciplined right because if you don't use the cash judiciously clearly that's all going to have and clearly that's what the markets are dictating or telling all the lidar companies that none of these publicity stunts are going to get you anything so I think thats why its important to understand the context of why we're being.
Anubhav Verma: And clearly, that's what the markets are dictating or telling all the LIDAR companies: none of these publicity stunts are going to get you anything. So I think that's why it's important to understand the context of why we're being – we are setting the record for how, and I think you probably have heard Sumit and me talk about how we had predicted this long ago that the markets would be L2 and L3 and not full autonomy, right?
Amit: We are setting the record for how and I think you probably have heard some of that I talked about the.
Amit: We had predicted this long ago that the markets will be as soon as they are not full autonomy long ago, right and I think we have been really right about forecasting where the nature of this industry is going to be and I think this is yet another moment in time, where we are.
Anubhav Verma: And I think we have been really right about forecasting where the nature of this industry is going to be. And I think this is yet another moment in time where we are, again, stating the same fact that you have to run – you have to have a traditional cadence. You have to run this company like a traditional business so that you are going to be one of the few guys standing when the demand comes.
Speaker Change: Again, stating the same fact that you have to run you have to have a traditional cadence you have to run this company like our traditional business. So that you are going to be one of the few guys standing when the demand comes in and that's why we're sticking to our schedules we are sticking to our cadence and if and when the awards are events that are material to the company.
Anubhav Verma: And that's why we're sticking to our schedules. We're still sticking to our cadence. And if and when awards or events that are material to the company during the quarter occur, we will be announcing them and having investor events. But until then, we really don't need – we really don't understand the use of cash and our time to do these media and publicity events on social media and even in-person events because, again, I don't understand how companies can sustain this amount of cash flow, which is what's being proven by the markets.
Speaker Change: During the quarter, we would be announcing that men, having investor events, but until then we really don't need it.
Speaker Change: Really don't see the the use of cash and our time to do these media and publicity events on social media and even in person event, because again I don't understand how companies can sustain this amount of cash flow language is whats being driven by the markets.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Anubhav Verma: All right, I think we have run quite past the hour. And again, thank everybody on the call for being patient with us. I think I'm hopeful that you understand the theme of the call and as to why we feel very confident about the future and how we believe that MicroVision is positioned to be one of the few successful LiDAR companies to capture this demand. And again, I thank all the investors for joining this call.
Speaker Change: Alright, I think we have run.
Speaker Change: Quite fast the hour I again, thank everybody on the call and being patient with US I think I am hopeful that you've got the team of the call I would have to why we feel very confident about the future and how we believe that microvision is positioned to be the successful one of the few successful lidar companies.
Speaker Change: To capture this demand and again I. Thank you all the investors for joining this call.
Speaker Change: Thank you everyone.
Operator: Thank you. This concludes today's conference. All parties may disconnect, and have a great day.
Speaker Change: Thank you. This concludes today's conference all parties may disconnect and have a great day.
Speaker Change: Yeah.