Q2 2025 NetApp Inc Earnings Call
Speaker Change: Good day and welcome to the NetApp second quarter of fiscal year 2025 earnings call.
Speaker Change: All participants will be in a listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero.
Speaker Change: After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Please note, this event is being recorded.
Speaker Change: I would now like to turn the conference over to Kris Newton, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Kris Newton: Hi everyone. Thanks for joining us. With me today are CEO George Kurian and CFO Mike Berry. This call is being webcast live and will be available for replay on our website at NetApp.com.
Kris Newton: During today's call, we will make forward-looking statements and projections with respect to our financial outlook and future prospects, including without limitation, our guidance for the third quarter and fiscal year 2025,
Kris Newton: our expectations regarding future revenue, profitability, and shareholder returns, and other growth initiatives and strategies.
Kris Newton: These statements are subject to various risks and uncertainties which may cause our actual results to differ materially.
Kris Newton: For more information, please refer to the documents we filed from time to time with the SEC and on our website, including our most recent Form 10-K and Form 10-Q. We disclaim any obligation to update our forward-looking statements and projections.
Speaker Change: During the call, all financial measures presented will be non-GAAP unless otherwise indicated. Reconciliations of GAAP to non-GAAP estimates are available on our website. I'll now turn the call over to George.
George Kurian: Thanks, Kris. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. I am extremely pleased with our Q2 performance.
George Kurian: Revenue growth was driven by a 19% year-over-year increase in all-flash storage and strong performance in first party and marketplace cloud storage services.
George Kurian: We achieved record Q2 operating margin and EPS ahead of our expectations.
George Kurian: are uniquely differentiated solutions in flash, block, cloud storage, and AI address markets which are bolstered by both secular and company-specific tailwinds.
George Kurian: We experience solid growth across all these strategic focus areas, affirming the strength of our value proposition for both existing and new to NetApp customers.
George Kurian: This positive momentum not only underscores our strong execution, but also demonstrates our customers' confidence and commitment to our intelligent data infrastructure platform.
George Kurian: We are delivering innovation at the fastest pace in art history, setting the stage for our continued success and growth.
George Kurian: In Q2, we held our Insight Customer Conference, showcasing how we uniquely address the genuine and pressing challenges that customers face in navigating the complexities of hybrid multi-cloud IT.
Speaker Change: I personally witnessed the enthusiasm among the many new to NetApp and returning attendees as they recognized how NetApp empowers them to overcome these hurdles by building intelligent data infrastructures.
Speaker Change: Organizations are proactively investing in data-driven strategies to drive competitive advantage.
Speaker Change: These businesses recognize the value of adopting a cohesive data strategy, leveraging data as a valuable enterprise-wide asset to fuel agile problem solving.
Speaker Change: To accomplish this, they require a cutting-edge data architecture founded on NetApp's Intelligent Data Infrastructure Platform.
Speaker Change: With NetApp's expertise and state-of-the-art solutions, customers are confidently paving their way to become data-driven leaders.
Speaker Change: We again delivered robust year-over-year performance in our hybrid cloud segment.
Speaker Change: Revenue grew 6% and product revenue grew 9% driven by notable strength in all flash storage.
broad-based success across the portfolio.
Speaker Change: propelled our all-flash array annualized revenue run rate to an all-time high.
of $3.8 billion.
Speaker Change: up 19% year-over-year, the fourth consecutive quarter of high teens to low 20% annual growth.
Speaker Change: We continue to gain share in the all-flash market, far outpacing the growth rates of both the industry and all of our competition.
Speaker Change: Our leadership was further underscored with the recognition of NetApp as a leader in the 2024 Gartner Magic Quadrant for Primary Storage Platform for the 12th consecutive year.
In the quarter, we delivered more innovation.
Speaker Change: with new high-end products in our ASA Block-Optimized All-Flash and FAS Hybrid Flash Array families, building on the Q1 introduction of the updated AFF A-Series family of high-performance all-flash arrays.
Speaker Change: We have already seen new ASA deals close across multiple regions and industries, reaching new customers and expanding our wallet share with new workloads.
Speaker Change: The pipeline is growing as our message of simple, powerful, and affordable resonates with partners and customers.
Speaker Change: With these new systems and continued advancements to our software platform, customers no longer need to make trade-offs between operational simplicity, advanced capabilities, and affordability in their storage.
Speaker Change: Keystone, our storage as a service offering again delivered another strong quarter with revenue growing approximately 55% from Q2 a year ago.
Speaker Change: Only NetApp can deliver a true hybrid cloud experience with flexibility and control in an agile pay-go model.
Speaker Change: Organizations are actively evaluating how to use their corporate data with AI. These discussions dominated Insight, where we unveiled our expansive vision for AI in the era of data and intelligence.
Speaker Change: Just as we bridge the gap between on-premises and the leading public clouds, empowering customers to utilize their data with any application, anywhere.
Speaker Change: We are well positioned to bridge the divide between AI systems and enterprise data.
Speaker Change: We help customers bring AI to their data, regardless of location or method, through an approach that is intelligent, dynamic, and secure.
Speaker Change: By eliminating data silos, we give customers a unified and structured view of their data assets.
Speaker Change: This empowers them to effortlessly explore, understand, unify, and prepare their data for AI applications.
Speaker Change: Customers can leverage their existing AI ecosystem tools directly on their data.
Speaker Change: while also benefiting from NetApp's AI features such as integrated data versioning, model traceability, and highly efficient retrieval for model training and inferencing.
Speaker Change: Our comprehensive solution includes policy-based classification, governance, and security measures that accompany data throughout the AI lifecycle.
Speaker Change: This includes automated AI data change detection and updates to keep data up-to-date and precise in every context.
Speaker Change: While we believe the large opportunity of enterprise AI is still ahead of us, we are already seeing accelerating momentum today. Our AI business performed ahead of our expectations in Q2 with well over 100 AI and data lake modernization wins.
Speaker Change: These wins span geographies and industries with notable early momentum in public sector, manufacturing, financial services, healthcare, and life sciences industries.
Speaker Change: We continue to advance our strong position with the development of Gen AI cloud and on-premises solutions in partnership with industry leaders.
Speaker Change: Gen AI is a truly hybrid workload, and only NetApp has the breadth of products and services to reduce the complexity, resources, and risks across increasingly complex hybrid multi-cloud environments.
Speaker Change: In Q2, we announced several updates within our AI partner ecosystem.
Speaker Change: deepening our partnership with Domino Data Labs, harnessing NVIDIA Accelerated Computing and AI software platforms, and releasing the NetApp AIPod with Lenovo solution in its general availability version.
Speaker Change: To make AI-ready infrastructure readily available to public sector and other highly regulated industries, we expanded our partnership with Google Cloud to provide the foundational data storage for the Google Distributed Cloud.
by Enhancing Google Distributed Cloud Environments.
with ONTAP Unified File and Block Storage.
and storage-grade object storage solutions.
Speaker Change: customers can achieve better control over their data to efficiently scale their workloads and leverage AI while helping to maintain security and regulatory compliance.
Now turning to public cloud.
our highly differentiated first party and marketplace cloud storage services.
with the leading hyperscalers remain our focus and top priority.
Speaker Change: These services continue to grow rapidly, increasing roughly 43% year-over-year. In total, public cloud segment revenue grew 9% year-over-year to $168 million.
Speaker Change: We continue to innovate rapidly in cloud storage services, broadening workload support, capabilities, price and performance points, further solidifying our strong leadership position.
Speaker Change: In Q2, we updated cloud volumes on tap to include our advanced autonomous ransomware protection and write-once-read-many capabilities.
strengthening our customers ability to defend against ransomware attacks.
Speaker Change: Additionally, we enhanced Google Cloud NetApp Volumes, which is now generally available in all 40 Google Cloud regions, with petabyte-scale volumes and auto-tiering, further expanding the number of workloads we serve.
Speaker Change: We remain focused on disciplined execution to meet the evolving needs of our growing customer base. We have broadened our all-flash storage portfolio substantially with updated high-performance flash, capacity flash, and block-optimized products.
Speaker Change: We have significantly increased our range of capabilities in public cloud storage, with vastly more cloud data centers, more price and capacity points, new features, and expanded workload support.
Speaker Change: We have integrated more intelligent services to make our storage the most secure with simplicity built in with scale.
Speaker Change: And finally, we continue to make it easy for customers to consume our products and services how they want, wherever they want.
Speaker Change: NetApp is at the forefront of innovation, empowering customers to build intelligent data infrastructures.
Speaker Change: broad-based customer preference for our solutions and visionary approach for a data-driven future has enabled us to outgrow the market.
Speaker Change: and Tick Share from competitors, our solid track record of disciplined operational management continues to yield strong earnings growth.
Speaker Change: Our focus and momentum fuel my confidence in our ongoing ability to deliver outstanding results for customers and shareholders.
Speaker Change: In closing, I want to thank the NetApp team for their dedication to our customer success. I'll now turn the call over to Mike.
Mike Berry: Thank you, George, and good afternoon, everyone. We executed a strong quarter, hitting or exceeding all our guidance ranges.
Mike Berry: We made progress toward our long-term Investor Day targets of mid to upper single-digit revenue growth and double-digit EPS growth on average through fiscal year 27
Fiscal year 25 is expected to be within both ranges.
Mike Berry: Before I get into the financial details, let me walk you through the key themes for the quarter. As a reminder, all numbers discussed are non-GAAP unless otherwise noted.
Mike Berry: As expected, Q2 consolidated gross margin was strong at 72%, continuing the trend near all-time highs.
Mike Berry: Gross Margin Leverage and Operating Discipline drove operating margin of 29%.
Mike Berry: Gross profit dollars grew 6% year-over-year, in line with revenue, while operating profit dollars grew 13% year-over-year, double the rate of revenue.
Mike Berry: Q2 revenue grew 6% year over year, the fourth consecutive quarter of mid to high single digit year over year growth with product revenue, cloud, and professional services all growing above this rate in the quarter.
Mike Berry: We returned over $400 million to shareholders through dividends and share repurchases, reducing Q2 fiscal 25 share count by 1 million shares year-over-year. As discussed during the last quarter's call, we intend to return up to 100% of free cash flow this year.
Mike Berry: Due to solid execution and strong operational management, we outperformed our expectations in the second quarter and expect our continued focus and discipline to deliver mid-single-digit year-over-year revenue growth in the second half of the fiscal year.
Mike Berry: As a result, we are raising our FY 25 revenue and EPS expectations.
Now, to the details of the quarter.
Mike Berry: Billings of 1.59 billion dollars increased 9% year-over-year. This marks our fourth consecutive quarter of year-over-year revenue and billings growth.
Mike Berry: Product revenue of 768 million dollars was up 9% year-over-year. Support revenue of 635 million dollars grew 2% year-over-year.
Mike Berry: professional services revenue of 87 million dollars grew 10% year-over-year mainly driven by Keystone
Mike Berry: Public cloud revenue of 168 million dollars increased 9% from Q2 a year ago, driven by hyperscale of first-party and marketplace storage services.
Mike Berry: We expect cloud revenues to return to double-digit year-over-year growth beginning in Q3, driven by the momentum in our cloud storage business.
Mike Berry: Q2 deferred revenue was $4.1 billion, up 2% year-over-year. Keystone, our storage-as-a-service offering, continues to gain traction in the market.
Remaining performance obligations were $4.4 billion.
Mike Berry: Unbilled RPO was approximately $330 million, up 11% quarter over quarter.
Mike Berry: Growth in unbilled RPO is a key indicator of future keystone growth.
Q2 consolidated gross margin came in at 72%.
product growth margin was 60%.
Mike Berry: we highlight that both consolidated and product gross profit dollars grew mid to high single digits year-over-year in Q2 in line with revenue.
Mike Berry: We have made strategic purchase commitments to lock in the majority of SSD supply and mitigate rising prices in calendar year 2024.
Mike Berry: which continues to give us confidence in our product gross margins as we move into the second half of fiscal year 25.
Mike Berry: We continue to forecast product growth margins to decline slightly in the second half of fiscal year 25 as compared to the first half, but remain in the high 50% range for the full year consistent with our prior guidance.
Mike Berry: Our recurring support business continues to be highly profitable with gross margins of 92%. Our support retention rates and associated margin structure represent the continuing innovation we deliver to our customers through ONTAP.
Mike Berry: Q2 public cloud gross margins improved to 74% from 66% in the prior year.
Mike Berry: We are particularly proud of the improvement in public cloud gross margins and highlight that one-third of the year-over-year expansion in total gross profit was driven by public cloud in the quarter.
Mike Berry: We expect to make further progress on our public cloud gross margins and exit fiscal year 25 at the lower end of our long-term target of 75 to 80 percent.
Mike Berry: Operating expenses of $719 million was up 2% year-over-year and up 1% from Q1'25.
Mike Berry: Q2 again highlighted the strength of our business model and disciplined operational execution with operating margin of 29% ahead of expectations.
Mike Berry: EPS of $1.87 was above the high end of our guidance, driven by higher revenues and higher gross margins compared to our initial forecast.
Mike Berry: Operating cash flow was $105 million in Q2, compared to $135 million a year ago. And free cash flow was $60 million, compared to $97 million a year ago.
Mike Berry: Our lower year-over-year cash flow results in Q2 were primarily driven by upfront payments for strategic SSD purchases which are forecasted to be predominantly utilized during fiscal year 25.
Mike Berry: These strategic purchases resulted in much higher inventory levels versus all of fiscal year 24 and reduced inventory turns to only six times in Q2.
Mike Berry: In the quarter, DSOs increased to 48 in line with seasonal averages.
Mike Berry: During the quarter we returned 406 million dollars to stockholders through share repurchases and cash dividends.
Mike Berry: We have approximately $800 million remaining on our existing repurchase authorization.
Mike Berry: We also repaid $400 million in debt with available cash in the quarter as planned.
Mike Berry: Our balance sheet remains healthy. We ended the quarter with approximately 2.2 billion dollars in cash and short-term investments against two billion dollars in debt.
Now, turning to guidance, starting with the full year.
Mike Berry: We are raising our revenue guidance for the full year to between $6.54 billion and $6.74 billion, representing approximately 6% year-over-year growth at the midpoint.
Mike Berry: We expect fiscal year 2025 consolidated gross margin to be 71 to 72 percent, unchanged from prior expectations.
Mike Berry: Importantly, we expect gross margin dollars to increase to $4.75 billion at the midpoint, driven by growth across product, support, and cloud revenue.
Mike Berry: We expect fiscal year 25 operating margin to be 28 to 28.5% up 75 basis points at the midpoint compared to prior expectations.
Mike Berry: We are raising our net interest income expectations slightly to $55 million, driven by higher interest income.
Mike Berry: We expect our tax rate for the full year to be 20 to 21 percent.
Mike Berry: As a result, we expect EPS to be in the range of $7.20 to $7.40, which at the midpoint implies 13% growth year over year.
Mike Berry: Year-to-date, our free cash flow has trended lower year-over-year, despite higher revenue and net income, due to the timing of higher incentive compensation and our strategic SSD purchase commitments in the first half of the year.
Mike Berry: which have been instrumental to our supply chain management strategy in a rising commodity cost environment.
Mike Berry: The lower cash flow results are due to the timing of cash payments, not a change in our normalized cash conversion cycle.
Mike Berry: We expect SSD related cash outflows to slow in the rest of our fiscal year and expect cash flow generation to be higher in the second half of the year compared to the first half and grow year over year versus the second half of fiscal year 24.
Mike Berry: Even with this improvement, we now expect free cash flow in FY25 to be slightly lower year over year, driven by the timing of these cash payments.
Mike Berry: Turning now to our third quarter guidance. We expect Q3 revenue to range between 1.61 billion and 1.76 billion dollars which at the midpoint implies 5% growth year-over-year.
Mike Berry: We expect Q3 Consolidated Gross Margin to be 71-72% and Operating Margin to be approximately 29%.
Mike Berry: We expect net interest income to be $10 million in the quarter and our tax rate to be 20 to 21 percent.
Mike Berry: EPS is expected to be in the range of $1.85 to $1.95.
Mike Berry: While our Q3 guidance for EPS forecasts a year-over-year decline, we note that last year's Q3 represented a record high in product gross margin as well as an unusually low tax rate.
Mike Berry: Normalizing for these factors are Q3 EPS Guidance Forecast Year-over-Year EPS Roll.
Mike Berry: As a reminder, we expect double-digit EPS growth on average from FY25 to FY27, and our FY25 guidance is on track towards this goal.
Mike Berry: In closing, I want to thank our employees, customers, and investors for their commitment and investment in NetApp.
Mike Berry: I am confident in our ability to help our customers successfully achieve their digital and cloud transformation goals.
Mike Berry: We are well aligned to priority IT investments and are committed to deliver sustainable long-term value for our stockholders.
Speaker Change: I'll now turn the call over to Kris to open the Q&A. Kris?
Thanks, Mike. Operator, let's begin the Q&A.
Speaker Change: Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star, then 1 on your touchtone phone. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. If at any time your question has been addressed, and you would like to withdraw your question, please press star, then 2.
[inaudible]
Speaker Change: And our first question today will come from Asia Merchant with Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you for taking my question and congratulations on strong results. If I may, George and Mike, you've talked about macro in the past and some kind of uneven recovery across certain verticals. So maybe if you could just start with that. And relative to this 5% revenue growth for the full year, how much of that is predicated on macro versus now that you have a fuller portfolio that is addressing all the external storage needs? Thank you.
Speaker Change: The macro in the last past quarter has been unchanged relative to prior quarters.
Speaker Change: We are well aligned to the priority spending areas for our customers.
Data Center Modernization, the deployment of new applications.
Speaker Change: Cyber resilience for data and of course cloud and AI and Our product portfolio is exceptionally strong
Speaker Change: We are focused on executing at the expense of, you know, larger competitors.
Speaker Change: and I think that our growth outlook for the year is regardless of the macro we are assuming that it stays where it is.
Deploying.
Speaker Change: you know, NetApp solutions as it relates to modernizing your data storage for AI. And any insights you can give us to sort of when you think AI inferencing will be a bigger factor for you guys. Thank you.
Speaker Change: We are seeing the early stages of getting your data infrastructure ready for AI. We had a large number of wins across
the multiple verticals, as I said in my prepared remarks.
Speaker Change: Those are leading indicators of future large-scale inferencing deployments. I would say they are today in what we call AI centers of excellence.
We also have had some strong momentum with Google.
Speaker Change: with their distributed cloud for AI deployments in the public sector.
Speaker Change: and so we're encouraged at the prospects of our AI business going forward. In large, you know, I don't have an update from prior commentary. We think that it's still, you know, second half of next year and so the growth opportunity for us is still ahead of us.
Great, thank you and congratulations.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Your next question today will come from Amit Daryanani with Evercore. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Good afternoon everyone. I guess just to start with, George and Mike, can you just talk about the strength and really the durability of what you're seeing on the all-flash array side? You know, you folks have had near 20% growth for a few quarters now. How do you think of that all-flash array growth as you go into the back half of the fiscal year, where compared, I think, it's starting to get a little bit more difficult for you? I'd love to kind of just understand that.
Speaker Change: If I just speak to the All Flash Array team, I'd love to just understand the growth you're seeing right now, how much of that do you think is share gains versus maybe new products like the A-Series that's opening up newer workloads, newer environments for you?
We have had four consecutive quarters.
Speaker Change: of high teens or 20% plus revenue growth in all flash arrays.
Speaker Change: This is clearly outpacing the market and all of the competitors. It is because we are aligned to areas of customer spending.
Speaker Change: as well as a unique value proposition, a single operating system.
Speaker Change: an advanced and complete hybrid multi-cloud capability, the richest set of data services, the most secure storage in the planet, and you can buy and consume this technology in the way you want from NetApp or from our partners.
We are combining that durable, competitive mode
Speaker Change: with the fastest innovation pipeline ever. We refreshed the A-series, we refreshed the ASA products, we refreshed our FAS products, and you will see continued innovation coming from us.
Speaker Change: over the next few quarters. And we are focused on executing in the go-to-market as opposed to many of our competitors who are distracted. So I feel very, very good about the durability of our leadership position and the opportunity going forward.
Mike Berry: Got it. And then, Mike, could you just touch on this pre-buying of memory that you folks are doing right now? I guess, do I think of the sequential uptake in inventory as essentially all pre-buys? And then, can you talk about, are you changing the way you look at inventory pre-buying longer term, and is it something you think you want to do on a more consistent basis? Thank you.
Speaker Change: Sure. Thanks for the question, Ahmed. So yes, the increase in the first half in inventories, while it's not certainly the whole amount of the inventory number, the 300 plus million, the majority of the increase are the pre-buys that we've negotiated at the end of 24 and 25.
Speaker Change: So, at this point, we've said it before, we're not looking to do any more pre-bites going forward. We're good where we are. We've covered the majority of our expected.
Speaker Change: Demand in fiscal 25. So at this point, Ahmed, we've taken a step back.
Speaker Change: We're starting to see some softening in the NAN market, so we're going to let that play out. So, we'll, hey, we look at it every day, we'll look at it as we go through the rest of fiscal 25, but unless something changes in the market, you shouldn't expect to see us do any more pre-buys for the rest of this fiscal year.
Thank you. Bye-bye.
Perfect. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: And your next question today will come from Tim Long of Barclays. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Two as well, if I could.
First, Mike, you mentioned...
Speaker Change: and John Podesta, so thanks very much and God bless you all.
else sounded pretty strong with the
Speaker Change: the billings and the outlook and the pipeline. So if we could just walk us through the RPO down in the quarter. And then secondly, I was hoping you could touch on the public sector, pretty strong results queue on queue and year over year. Just curious what drove that and what's the outlook for that business given the changing political landscape for that type of business. Thank you.
Mike Berry: Thanks for the question, Tim. So it's Mike. I'll do the first one. So thanks on RPO. So a couple things. RPO is made up of two pieces. It's made up of deferred revenue, which is both short and long term on the balance sheet, and then the unbilled portion of our commitments.
Mike Berry: That's where you will find Keystone because it's not on the balance sheet. RPO came down quarter on quarter as expected because sequentially deferred revenue always comes down Q1 to Q2. Now importantly in the number we look at is total deferred revenue including short term grew year over year. It was flat in Q1 after being down slightly in the second half of last year so that's a great sign for us.
Mike Berry: to your point, that really follows the great billings growth that we've had. So, on RPO, just, hey...
Mike Berry: Always watch what's the unbilled versus deferred. Deferred follows a sequential pattern. We do expect to see unbilled continue to grow quarter-on-quarter though largely driven by Keystone. And I'll hand it to George for the public sector question.
George Kurian: U.S. public sector business performed well despite the continuing resolution. As we said in the past, a large part of our public sector business is from a number of long-term projects.
George Kurian: which are supported by program spending that is approved across annual budget cycles.
George Kurian: We also saw strong performance across the globe from our public sector segment.
George Kurian: With regard to our expectations for the new administration, listen, new administration bring new priorities We will wait to see how they play out. One encouraging sign is that there is alignment across legislature and executives which hopefully means that policies can be implemented quickly
Thank you.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: And your next question today will come from Jason Adder with William Blair. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks. Good afternoon.
Speaker Change: George, I wanted to ask you about any potential ripple effects that you guys are seeing from the Broadcom VMware acquisition, specifically on storage projects, just as customers maybe have less budget or, you know, look to reevaluate their on-prem infrastructure plans and strategies.
George Kurian: We have not seen anything material yet. We are seeing customers
Speaker Change: look at three paths forward. One is to optimize their existing broadcom estate.
Speaker Change: That could be by moving footprint from hyper-converged to external storage so that they don't pay the virtual machine tax on the storage layer.
Speaker Change: and it also gives them flexibility to move in other directions moving forward.
Speaker Change: The second is to move to new architectures. We have seen clients deploy alternative hypervisors, and we've benefited in those cases from our integration into multiple different hypervisors. And then there are a group of customers who have moved to the public cloud. We have strong solutions with VMware and with the hyperscalers, and our public cloud business saw some benefit from that this quarter.
Speaker Change: Okay, thank you. And then, Mike, maybe for you, just the keystone.
Speaker Change: product or the Keystone offering, does that go in the professional services line? Is that what I heard you say?
Mike Berry: Yes, hey Jason, it's Mike. Yes, that is reported in professional services. That's where the revenue goes because it is a service. So it's not in product or support, it's in professional services.
Okay, and...
Speaker Change: Would we, as we look forward in the model, I mean should we see professional services growth inflect because Keystone becomes a bigger part of that mix over the next couple of years?
Kris Newton: So you did see it grow quarter-on-quarter and that was largely due to Keystone. Professional services is a relatively stable piece of business, so as you see that revenue move up and we have forecasted continued growth, the majority of that is due to Keystone, Jason.
Okay, thank you guys, good luck.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: And your next question today will come from Simon Leopold with Raymond James. Please go ahead.
Simon Leopold: Thanks for taking the question. First, I know you stopped disclosing the split of hardware from software within hybrid cloud, but I'm wondering if there's...
anything in particular going on.
Simon Leopold: in terms of the mix between your software and hardware business that might be affecting product growth margins either in the recent quarter or in the outlook. And then as a quick follow-up, I'm just wondering if there are any specific characteristics of the customers you see experimenting with AI applications in the enterprise. For example, do you see a bias towards something like financial services or certain kinds of industries, any patterns that you're observing? Thank you.
Mike Berry: So Simon, it's Mike, I'll take the first one. Yes, we we don't disclose the hardware and software.
Mike Berry: Breakout anymore. We talked about that in terms of why we pulled back on that
Mike Berry: As it relates to gross margin, what I'd focus you on is the mix of flash versus the rest of the business. That's really the big driver there. As we've talked about it, you know, A-series high-performance flash has always been the highest.
Mike Berry: Gross Margin Percentage, and then Capacity Flash, and then the non-flash product. So as we continue to sell more flash, and part of that is the replacement of our hybrid install base, and we're doing that on purpose, that is what we expect to continue to keep our product gross margins where they are. It's more of a mix issue. Hardware and software is really not playing into that.
Thank you.
With regard to your question on AI...
Speaker Change: Your next question today will come from Sameek Chatterjee with J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Hi, thanks for the question. This is Joe Cardoso on Personic Chatterjee. Maybe just first question here, can we just get an update on the competitive environment, particularly with you seeing another quarter of a muted or challenging macro. Curious that this prolonged macro is driving you to see an increasing intensity across your peer group. And then I just have a quick follow-up.
No fundamental change in the competition.
Speaker Change: The pricing environment, which is a representation of the competition, remains rational.
Speaker Change: It's always been a competitive industry. I would say following the long-term trend of the industry, the specialists are more advantaged than the integrated system vendors.
and there are lots of shared donors across the landscape.
Speaker Change: So we are well positioned to outperform. We have been outperforming for multiple quarters now, and we see no change in that position. In fact, I feel even better today than we have felt in the past. Our product cycle, our ability to meet customer demand and customer trends, as well as our unique competitive mode that we have built over many years is playing true for us.
Speaker Change: Thanks George. Maybe just a follow-up on the new U.S. administration coming in. I know you touched on it real quickly, but like specifically how are you thinking about any implications around a new potential tariff, government and efficiency initiative, taxes, etc. that the new administration has talked about thus far. You know, where are you seeing headwinds, where are you seeing tailwinds, any potential areas that we should be flat, investors should be wary of, or you guys are too early to tell essentially. Thanks, appreciate any color on that one.
Speaker Change: I think on the rest of the, you know, policies, we are going to wait till January and once the new administration is sworn in, we can see how that plays out. We'll update you once we have clarity on it.
Got it. Thanks, George. I appreciate all the color.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: And your next question today will come from Param Singh with Oppenheimer. Please go ahead.
Great. Thank you for taking my question.
Speaker Change: First of all, you know good to see that your public cloud revenue is starting to improve again
Speaker Change: I wanted to get a sense of what are some of the changes that you've recently implemented that's driving a recovery in that growth? And then when do you think we can get to a teen's growth back again in that public cloud revenue segment? And then I have a follow-up.
I think we've done three things.
Speaker Change: You know, in the business, as we have said multiple times, the first was to build a focused go-to-market engine together with the hyperscalers.
Speaker Change: The second was to broaden our offerings in the first party and hyperscaler marketplace with cloud storage. And the third was to restructure or push for stabilization in the subscription business.
Speaker Change: All of those have made good progress. I think in the past quarter, you've seen the continued strength, a really strong quarter of 43% year-on-year.
from the Hyperscaler and First Party Cloud Storage Services.
Speaker Change: which are an ever-increasing part of our business. And as Mike said, you know, we expect to return to double-digit growth in the second half of this fiscal year. That is coupled with strong gross margin performance. As you can tell, you know, the increased scaling of the business plus
Speaker Change: Better utilization and less headwinds from depreciation and amortization Has caused us to track upward in terms of gross margin, and we expect to hit our long-term gross margin targets by the end of the fiscal year 25
Speaker Change: That's great. You can all run your own guidance. Sorry, you can all run your own guidance models. We talked about double-digit growth starting in Q3, so if you run that growth out, I'm going to be surprised if you don't hit the teens in fiscal 25.
Speaker Change: Got it. Perfect. Thanks so much for the color, George and Mike. And then as my follow-up
Speaker Change: I want to focus a little bit on Keystone, you talked about a $330 million on-build RPO and then zooming a typical duration of about three years.
Speaker Change: You're still pretty small on the Keystone side. What are you hearing in terms of feedback from customers and when do you think Keystone can start to become a much more meaningful part of the overall NetApp story?
The feedback from customers has been stellar.
Speaker Change: We have yet to see a single customer churn on Keystone.
Speaker Change: So it has been an incredibly rock-solid, you know, product and service. Customers like the flexibility we have. We continue to educate our field teams, broaden the number of partners who can sell, and we are seeing more partners transacting Keystone. And so we'll see that growth over time, right? And I'm excited about it. It should grow faster in terms of percentage growth than our product business. But it's an aid to us winning new customers and new workloads.
Speaker Change: Understood. I'll get back in line. Thank you so much for the call.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: And your next question today will come from Wamsi Mohan with Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Hi, thanks for taking the questions. It's actually Ruplu Bhattacharya filling in for WAMSI today. I just wanted to follow up on the public cloud segment question. Mike, your first-party hyperscaler marketplace storage services, like you said, have accelerated 40% year-on-year growth last year, 43% – last quarter, 43% this year. Can you comment on the subscription services part, the headwinds that you were seeing? I think you had said that it's lessening over the course of fiscal 25. Any quantification on the headwinds, and how should we think about this going over the next couple of quarters into the next fiscal year?
Speaker Change: Sure, so let's back up and go through those numbers again, just so we all have them.
Speaker Change: At Financial Analyst Day, we talked to you folks about the size of that business, first party and marketplace services, a little less than half of the total cloud revenue, so a good portion of it. That grew last quarter by about 43%. Total cloud revenue grew by 9%.
Speaker Change: We, and we've talked about this, on purpose, we are, as with our customers, seeing a conversion to first party marketplace away from subscription. We've talked about the pull of marketplace.
Speaker Change: how important that is in terms of them being able to burn down their commits and then all the wonderful partnerships we have with the big three hyperscalers. So the subscription business...
Speaker Change: That is about 20% of the revenue. It gets to be a smaller piece every day because of growth of first party and marketplace
Speaker Change: So it is declining on purpose. That was part of the plan. You know, at some point it probably flattens out, but we do expect over the next several quarters for
Speaker Change: consumption to continue to grow from the 80 plus percent it is and it will be the very large majority of the business going forward. So we won't quantify the subscription piece, you can run your own numbers, but that is part of the strategic plan to push to first party and marketplace and by all rights we've seen it's really working.
Speaker Change: The other thing I'll add, and George brought this up, that's really helped from a margin perspective as well, driving much better gross margins. So all of this feels like it's really setting us up well for the rest of 25 going into 26.
Speaker Change: Okay, thanks for the details there, Mike. Maybe a follow-up for George. How much of the install base has now converted to all Flash? And what's the mix of existing customers moving to Flash versus new customers? And what benefit have you seen from QLC? I mean, what percent of your Flash business is now QLC? Thanks for taking my questions.
George Kurian: I think with regard to our installed base, it remains at the same number as last quarter, which is 40%.
are installed bases growing, so even if...
Flashes growing fast
The total install base is growing.
George Kurian: We are outperforming the market and all of our competitors quite substantially.
George Kurian: So it is clear that we are winning new wallets within existing customers.
George Kurian: as well as existing wallet, as well as new to NetApp customers. And we saw a lot of them at our Insight Conference. And so I feel really good about the book of business. It's balanced. And then with regard to TLC versus QLC, we're not going to break that out. I can just tell you that all of our Flash product families did really well.
Okay, thank you for all the details. Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Your next question today will come from Metta Marshall with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Hi, this is Marion from META. I had a question on the AI momentum that you're seeing.
who noted more than 100 wins.
during the quarter.
Speaker Change: Can you give a sense of what those deals look like? Have they been primarily public cloud, premise, or are they mostly a combination of the two? Thanks.
Speaker Change: These are the 100 wins we talked about, our on-premise wins.
Speaker Change: and you know we disclosed the public cloud AI wins under the public cloud segment you know revenue. I think on the on-premises side
Speaker Change: There was a broad base of wins in terms of size, industry, and geography. There were some clients that are in what we call proof-of-concept mode. There are others that are in large product, you know, early pilots that are pre-production pilots. So it's a mix all over the place. We talked about the fact that it was broad-based across the geos as well as broad-based across industries.
Speaker Change: Great, thanks. And just a follow-up on the free cash flow.
Speaker Change: You had noted the puts and takes on free cash flow this year but do any of the dynamics that you're seeing this year change how you think about the free cash flow trajectory for next year?
Speaker Change: Thank you, great question. So as we talked about the two big working capital issues, not issues, changes we've seen this year are about the payment of the annual incentive compensation and the pre-buy and inventory.
Speaker Change: We're not going to guide 26 or call that yet. What I would say is from an incentive perspective, we do think that normalizes based on where we are in the year. So we don't think that will be nearly the working capital issue it is this year.
Speaker Change: We will see where we are on pre-buys. Do we do those going into next year or not? That is remaining to be seen. So we'll talk about that when we guide the year, but from an incentive comp perspective, that will normalize going into next year.
Great, thanks.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: And your next question today will come from David Vogt with UBS. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Great, thanks guys. George, one for you to start. Can you maybe share some color on
Speaker Change: the success of the block portfolio in the flash numbers and what may be sort of the revenue sort of dynamic was in the quarter as well as any potential impact on margin given sort of its new offering for you in a new market that you're really targeting aggressively and that'll give you the Second one also for Mike, you know You mentioned obviously not taking any in any more purchase commitments for the balance of this year as you see some softening in NAND can you remind us again sort of a lag effect of NAND if it does roll over and soften a bit what that would mean for pricing in the market and how that would affect
Speaker Change: product revenue growth over the longer term relative to your framework. Thanks.
We are pleased with the performance of the ASA product.
It is bringing us a bunch of net new customers.
Speaker Change: as well as expansions within our existing customers. And so we are, you know, excited. It's early in the cycle, but we are seeing good, very good momentum. I think with regard to, you know, the overall gross margin implications of that, listen, I'll just say that we're not going to break out ASA versus other product families. I think overall our view is
Speaker Change: As we move the mix of our business more and more to flash, that should continue to be a tailwind to gross margins over time. And so we're executing our strategy, we feel good about where we are in terms of the overall portfolio and we're going to stay pedal to the metal.
Speaker Change: And David, on the related question on pricing, look, there have been a number of changes in the pricing environment.
Speaker Change: So as we look forward, what we tell you is, and we've said this all along,
Speaker Change: Customer's budget on dollars. We're not assuming any significant change in revenue because of higher prices.
Speaker Change: So, from that perspective, A, we'll have to see how it looks going forward. We feel good about the pre-buys in terms of the rest of our fiscal 25. A little bit of that will drift into 26, but not really. We're looking at it every day. So we'll update you on the revenue view and the margin view as we get closer to 26.
Great. Thanks, George. Thanks, Mike.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: And your next question today will come from Stephen Fox with Fox Advisors. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Hi, good afternoon. I only had one question. George, I was wondering if you can expand a little bit on the comments around the partnership with Google Cloud and how that's driving
customer business and public sector business.
Speaker Change: What are the early indicators? How quickly do you ramp into that sector more and more over time? Thanks.
Speaker Change: Our work with Google Cloud started with their public cloud environment.
Speaker Change: and then over about a year and a half, two years ago, we started to see clients together with Google that wanted the Google Stack.
Speaker Change: But in their data centers, and so we started to work with them on an architecture called Google distributed cloud
We announced
Speaker Change: you know, a set of customer wins, as well as the broader partnership with Google earlier this year, and we are seeing good momentum. It's still early. These are large scale deployments. It's still early.
Speaker Change: but we are super pleased that both the capability set that the full technology stack offers, it is entirely wallet expanding for us, and the unique value that we bring to clients with Google is a consistent experience between their data centers and public cloud as well as the private clouds or on-premises environments that customers have.
Great. It seems like a great opportunity. Thank you.
Yep, we're excited. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Your next question today will come from Aaron Rakers with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for fitting me in.
Speaker Change: I guess my question is going back to, you know, earlier point just to make clear and maybe push back a little bit is that, you know, last quarter, I think you talked about your, you know, first party and hyper scale marketplace, you know, storage services, I think was, you know, grew north of 30%. I think in that context, you had alluded to that that contribution was about two thirds of that public cloud piece of business. So now you've got, you know, I want to make sure I'm understanding today, it sounds like is it did I hear it right? It's now about 80% of that public cloud business. And if so, why would
Speaker Change: Why would mid-teens' growth be right? Why wouldn't it accelerate much higher as we start to see the, you know, lack of growth in the declining business really become significantly smaller? I'm just trying to understand if that's maybe conservatism or if there's something else there.
Mike Berry: Yeah, hey Aaron, it's Mike. So, sorry if I confused it. So, out of the total cloud revenue number, first party and marketplace was a little less than half when we did the analyst day in June. That percentage increases more and more every day. The 80% number I referred to was consumption revenue, which includes more than just first party and marketplace. There's other products in there as well.
Mike Berry: To your point, it's why we feel really good about the growth going forward Is it that piece of the business gets bigger every day the part that's not growing gets smaller every day So we do feel good about the growth going forward. We'll see how the rest of the year unfolds
Thanks, Aaron. Next question. Thank you.
Speaker Change: And your next question today will come from Louis Messiosia with Diala. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Yes, thanks for taking it. Well, let me just blend, I guess, two questions into one. You know, it looks like, obviously, the Americas was a little bit stronger from Europe. So, any comment on just our European demand? It seems the economies are maybe a little bit slower there. And then, could the difference be that the U.S. is actually doing better trying to deploy AI applications comparison to Europe? Thank you.
Listen, I think our team in Europe has outperformed.
Speaker Change: We have, you know, yes, you're correct about the macro in Europe.
Speaker Change: It is still choppy in some parts of the European economy,
Speaker Change: With regard to the America's business, listen, the new leadership team has done a really good job.
Speaker Change: are super excited at our ability to outperform really in the largest market in the world. I think that our book of business
Speaker Change: You know, I don't think there was anything fundamental. Yes, there were more wins in North America for AI, but I don't think it was fundamentally different. I think our business overall in North America performed exceptionally well across all segments, and it was just execution across a broad range of customer demand.
Okay, congrats on the numbers.
Thank you. Thanks, Lou.
Speaker Change: And your next question today will come from Ananda Baruha with Loop Capital. Please go ahead.
Hey, thanks guys, appreciate it.
Speaker Change: George, question maybe and a little clarification. So the new high-end, here's kind of the question, the new high-end ASA products
How
Speaker Change: How important is that to the ASA product line? Is it as important as the mid-range product that you introduced?
Speaker Change: a little while ago, those have made a really big impact. And then sort of in the prepared remarks, the comments about new customer acquisition, which you've referenced a few times on the call, is that directly related to the new high-end products? Or I guess, to what degree has the new high-end products actually led to the new customer acquisition?
and that's it for me, thanks.
Speaker Change: I think our flash portfolio has, you know, we refreshed the unified AFF products.
Speaker Change: and then we, you know, refreshed the ASA products. These have seen strong reception.
I think with regard to new customers
Speaker Change: you know over time you will see the mid-range bring new customers because the majority of net new logos to NetApp come from smaller, the commercial market, but the high-end products are enabling us to win wallet share within existing customers. Block wallet share is entirely new to NetApp. We've never sold a block optimized product before so it's all net new wallet for us and so we're excited at the reception to those products.
Speaker Change: The unified product has continued to strengthen our positions and customers who want a consolidated data center infrastructure More of the classic sales motion of NetApp And so, I think across the board, our flash, I mean, 19% year-on-year is a super strong number It's the fourth consecutive quarter in that kind of, you know, kind of altitude And all of our products have done really, really well So I'm really...
Excited about the year ahead?
Thank you.
Thank you, Ananda. Next question?
Speaker Change: Your next question today will come from Kris Sankar with TD Cowen. Please go ahead.
Hey guys, this is Eddie Porquish.
Speaker Change: want to make sure, like, is the conversion that's taking place from subscription to hyperscale services contributing in any material way to that 43% number?
Speaker Change: There's some modest conversion. It's not a significant percentage. There's a large number of net new to NetApp customers, as well as significant expansion of existing customers, and all of the hyperscaler services did extremely well.
Speaker Change: So, you know, yes, there were a few, but it was not material to the number.
Speaker Change: That's super helpful, George. And maybe just to follow up on the Gen AI topic, and using the AI deals you talked about today as an example, what pushed these customers to buy more storage? Was it just them setting up new GPU clusters, and they need new storage equipment? Or is it more like an upgrade?
Speaker Change: to existing infrastructure so that they can feed their data lakes from it. Thank you.
Speaker Change: It's a combination. There were a good number of them that were building GPU clusters.
both super pods and, you know, kind of base pods.
Speaker Change: that we saw where they were essentially running the GPUs against high performance file systems from NetApp.
Speaker Change: and some that were building data lakes because their data was so scattered that they wanted to bring it together and they chose our infrastructure to power the data lake. So a mix of them. Interesting, you know, early in the cycle, we just brought to general availability our full stack with Lenovo, for example, with OBX, and we're doing creative work with NVIDIA around some of their software that Jensen referred to on their call yesterday.
Got it. Thank you.
Next question.
Speaker Change: Your next question today will come from Nihal Chokshi with Northland Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Yeah, thank you. You've got some strong results. At Insight, you guys introduced your AI vision, which is quite expansive, and I believe has some forward-looking product developments. One of those forward product developments, I believe, is—correct me if I'm wrong— it's the decoupling, the scaling of data management, compute, and data storage. Is that correct?
I'm sorry, could you repeat the question?
Speaker Change: Yeah, what are the elements of the forward-looking AI vision as far as how NetApp's...
Speaker Change: portfolio may evolve is the decoupling of the scaling of the data management compute and the data management storage components. Is that correct that that's that's a... That's correct, yep, that's right.
Speaker Change: That is one of the elements, you're correct. Yeah, and how long do you expect to before you can really introduce that and how heavy of a lift is this? Is this more like, you know, the lift it took to go to clustered on tap or is it more like the lift it took to optimize for flash?
We have been working on
Speaker Change: scaling out our architecture over many, many years, right? And so this is not anywhere near the lift-off clustered on that. As we said, we expect to have, you know, these solutions deployed in customers by the end of next calendar year. So we're excited. We are making really good progress on it. Stay tuned. We'll tell you when we make those solutions generally available.
Great. Thank you very much.
Thanks, y'all.
Speaker Change: Your final question today will come from Ari Derjanian with Cleveland Research Company. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Hi all, thanks for taking the question. Nice to meet you and congrats on the good results. First, just a clarification on the AI deals. That hundred, is that
Speaker Change: deals in the quarter, and if so, what drove the doubling from 50 last quarter? That's a pretty strong result.
Speaker Change: and then just as pertains to you know the SSD pricing and whatnot you know to the extent that there are any pricing actions
Speaker Change: you know, to your product, do you think there was potentially any pull forward of demand, or do you anticipate any impact from any pricing changes? Thank you.
With regard to the A.I. deals,
Speaker Change: Listen, it's just broader engagement with customers. These deals are, you know, large deals or, you know, take a long sales cycle, right? So our teams have been working on these for a while, and so we just saw broader engagement across our field teams and our partner base to accelerate the pipeline. We have a good outlook for that business, and I'm excited about the prospects of it.
I'll hand it to Mike for the second question.
Speaker Change: Hey Ari, nice to meet you as well. So there have been some pricing changes on some of our products. What we say is, hey, every quarter there's always pull-forwards and pushes. From a revenue perspective, nothing material though. And keep in mind that those tend to take a while to work through the pipeline as well. So we do expect to have some impact going forward, but we'll have to see how the rest of 25 goes.
Speaker Change: Thanks. All right, well thanks Ari. I appreciate your question and I'm going to turn it over to George for some final comments.
George Kurian: Thanks Kris. We are focused on enabling customers to build intelligent data infrastructures with our uniquely differentiated solutions for flash, block, cloud storage, and AI.
George Kurian: These solutions address markets which are bolstered by both secular and company-specific tailwinds and represent our biggest opportunities to fuel revenue growth and increase market share.
George Kurian: Our pace of innovation has never been stronger. We are executing well, clearly outgrowing the market and all of our competition in each of our key growth markets.
Speaker Change: The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.