Q3 2024 Allied Properties Real Estate Investment Trust Earnings Call
Hey, this is Jolaman, thank you for standing by my name is Mark and I will be your conference operator today. I'm I would like to welcome everyone to the Allied Properties 3-4-20-24 in the conference call. All ends have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, that will be a question and answer session.
If you would like to ask questions during this time, simply press star, followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press star one again. Thank you. I want to turn the call over to Cecilia Williams, proceed in NCO of Ali property street. Cecilia, please go ahead.
Thanks Mark, good morning everyone and welcome to our conference call.
I'll provide an update on our three areas of focus for the year. Nan will highlight our Q3 results and our strengthening financial position. JP will outline our solid leasing activity and provide a summary by urban market. Then we're pleased to answer questions.
We may, in the course of this conference call, make forward-looking statements about future events or future performance.
By their nature, these statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual events or results to differ materially, including those described under the heading Risks and Uncertainties in our 2023 Annual Report and our most recent quarterly report.
Material assumptions underpinning any forward-looking statements we make include those described under forward-looking statements in our most recent quarterly report.
Speaker Change: Now, on an update of our priorities for the year, which are as follows. One, strengthen our balance sheet. Two, lease up vacant space. And three, complete development and upgrade activity underway. All of this will drive operating results and supports our ongoing commitment to our distribution.
First, the balance sheet.
Our commitment to the balance sheet governs our actions across the business.
Speaker Change: We're proactively managing our 2025 and 2026 debt maturities to reach our targeted debt to EBITDA in the mid-8 times range and ensure maximum liquidity. As we explained last quarter, this involves selling non-core assets and proactive debt refinancing.
Speaker Change: The non-core asset sales are going well, with pricing from unsolicited bids coming in at or above IFRS value.
Speaker Change: In the third quarter, we closed on three properties, and we currently have another five pending sale, all expected to close by December 31st.
We haven't historically been sellers of our assets, but it's an opportune time given today's economic environment. The property that we're disposing of are non-core assets in that they're smaller, low-yielding, and not part of an existing concentration.
The combined proceeds of these eight asset sales by the end of 2024 will be $193 million, in line with the target established earlier this year. All proceeds will be applied toward debt reduction.
Because these proceeds are from the sale of lower-yielding assets, paying off higher-cost debt is accretive to FFO and AFFO per unit.
As we mentioned on our Q2 call, the success of our disposition program on the first $200 million of assets led us to identify another set of non-core properties for disposition that will generate an incremental $200 million of proceeds to also be allocated towards debt reduction.
Speaker Change: Most of these assets are now categorized as assets held for sale in our financial statements.
Proactive debt refinancings have also gone well.
We issued a $250 million bond with proceeds used to pay off variable rate debt.
Speaker Change: We also received commitments for secured financing at lower-than-in-place variable rate debt. Nan will elaborate on this shortly.
Second, leasing. Our results this quarter evidence the competitive advantage of our differentiated operating platform. It consistently outperforms the broader market because of the elevated quality of the portfolio and the user experience.
Speaker Change: The elevated user experience is evident from the results of the annual user engagement survey that is run by Kingsley. JP will elaborate on that shortly.
Our annual GRES score, reflecting our progress on ESG initiatives and our commitment to set near and long-term greenhouse gas emission reduction targets, are also important to our current and prospective users.
JP will elaborate on that as well shortly.
Our leased and occupied area held study this quarter, and the entire team is focused on improving it.
We've been meeting with brokers across the country over the last few months, and they understand that while we may not be able to fulfill all of their clients' needs, we can meet many of them through our multiple offerings of Allied Heritage, Allied Modern, and Allied Flex.
Allied Heritage is a format created through the adaptive reuse of light industrial structures for office use above grade and retail use at grade.
Nordelec in Montreal, 50522 King West in Toronto, the Telephone Building in Calgary, and Sun Tower in Vancouver are perfect examples of this.
Allied Modern is a format created specifically for office use.
These buildings tend to be mid-to-high-rise, clustered in the urban core, and are distinctive in their design, integration with heritage structure, and integration with the different elements of amenity-rich urban neighborhoods.
Speaker Change: 1001 Boulevard Robert Barassa in Montreal, 134 Peter in Toronto and 400 West Georgia and Vancouver are great examples of this.
Allied Flex is a limited format for buildings that we will redevelop completely within 10 years.
Speaker Change: Because of that near-term transformation, we can make that format available on more flexible terms.
Elpro in Montreal and 420 Wellington in Toronto are examples of this.
We've also strategically invested in suite upgrades, which will drive leasing activity.
Defining our space offering in terms relating to the nature of the physical environment and our corresponding appetite to invest capital allows us to have maximum impact through our leasing efforts with the appropriate sensitivity to our balance sheet.
Speaker Change: On to development and upgrade activity underway.
We transferred more GLA from the Development Portfolio to the Rental Portfolio this quarter, and this will continue until the projects are complete by mid-2026.
Over the next 18 months, we'll focus on onboarding those into the rental portfolio, with no plans to start new ones in the near term. Our development risk continues to decline.
I'll now pass the call to Nan.
Thank you, Cecilia. Good morning, everyone. I'll speak briefly about our financial results, our ongoing commitment to deleveraging, and provide an update on our proactive financing.
The third quarter was encouraging. Our operating income increased by 4.2% compared to Q2 2023.
Our average in-place net rent per occupied square foot increased to an all-time high of $25.30.
This reflects a 6.4% increase from $23.78 in the comparable quarter. Both metrics reflect the increasing productivity of our urban workspace portfolio and the resiliency of our business.
As we continue to complete development projects and meet our lease-up objectives on the organic portfolio, we expect that these metrics will continue to grow.
Last quarter, we completed the acquisition of a 90% interest in 400 West Georgia and an incremental 45% interest in 19 Duncan. While these transactions improved the quality of our portfolio, they resulted in temporary short-term pressure on our debt metrics.
This modest decrease in debt-to-EBITDA was the result of increased EBITDA from the development completions, mainly rent commencement from Northeastern University at QRC West Phase 2.
Speaker Change: Our net debt was also tempered by disposition of three non-co-assets in Montreal during the quarter.
Speaker Change: Gross proceeds from these assets was $51 million. We are targeting to get to the mid-8 times range by the end of 2026.
Nine months ended September 30th, 2024.
The incremental FFO from these projects is approximately $9.4 million. This is consistent with our expectation that approximately 50% of incremental EBITDA converts to FFO due to decapitalization.
Speaker Change: We are also progressing well with our objective of selling non-co-assets over the remainder of 2024 and into 2025.
Speaker Change: Lastly, our proactive financing initiatives have advanced significantly well.
Speaker Change: During the quarter, we issued a $250 million Senior Unsecured Debenture, which reflects the first time that we have utilized the debt capital markets since August 2021.
We achieved a rate of 5.534% and used the proceeds to pay down higher variable rate debt. This offering was five times oversubscribed and illustrates our ability to access the unsecured debenture market on an accretive basis.
In addition, we're working on putting in place permanent financing for QRC West Phase 2, 425 BJ, 400 West Georgia, Taliskaya Residential, and CMHC financing for 19 Duncans.
Speaker Change: These transactions are expected to materially reduce interest expense on higher variable rate debt and extend our overall debt maturity schedule.
We have also started working on permanent financing for 20 bright up in Kitchener, which will replace the existing construction facility upon its maturity in early 2025.
Speaker Change: Overall, we are pleased with these results for the quarter. We will continue to advance our development completions, our non-co-asset dispositions, and our proactive financing. I will now pass the call to JP who will talk about our leasing momentum.
Thanks, Nan. We continue to observe improved utilization across our portfolio as more and more organizations revert to an office-centric model, resulting in increased demand for our urban workspace.
This was particularly evident in the amount of expansion space leased to existing users in the quarter. As a result, leased area in Q3 held steady for the second consecutive quarter.
Speaker Change: In Q3, total leasing activity was up 39% compared to the previous quarter and almost 100% compared to the prior year.
Speaker Change: Year-to-date, total leasing activity is up 23% compared to the prior year, and new leasing activity is up 60%.
We remain extremely encouraged by the number of existing users in our portfolio requiring more space.
Speaker Change: Q3 was our strongest quarter for expansion activity in 2024.
94,000 square feet of new leasing activity in the quarter represented expansions, including Shopify's expansion for a full floor at King Portland Center. We continue to observe expansion activity in all markets across all sectors.
We are also encouraged by our improving retention rate, which was 60% in Q3, closer to our normal level of 70% to 75%.
Speaker Change: Excluding a short-term renewal at an allied flex property in Toronto, the average rental rate was up 0.5% when comparing the ending to starting base rent and up 10.3% when comparing average to average.
In addition, we completed 343,000 square feet of renewables on space that is maturing in the future, which is more than the aggregate amount of renewal activity achieved in Q1 and Q2 for future maturing space.
to our activity continues to be strong.
Total tour activity in Q3, including our PUD portfolio and assets held for sale, was in line with our quarterly average and up 5% compared to the prior quarter. Industries represented by touring organizations continue to be technology, media, professional services, education, and medical uses.
At the end of last quarter, we reported we had 900,000 square feet of leasing activity under negotiation or at the prospect stage.
In Q3, we completed 618,000 square feet of leasing activity. As of today, we have 960,000 square feet of leasing activity under negotiation or at the prospect stage, of which 44% represents new leasing requirements and 56% represents renewals.
I'll now provide a brief overview of each market.
In Montreal, we're seeing an increase in demand from prospective users, including tech users, for larger space requirements that are greater than 50,000 square feet.
Speaker Change: We continue to make great progress with the transformation of 1001 Boulevard Robert Barraza.
The transformation at GRADE is now complete and open to the public. We continue to pursue the transformation of the workspace above GRADE as it becomes available and the lower level retail offering.
Speaker Change: The property continues to attract diverse industries and we are in discussions with respective groups with mandates up to 100,000 square feet.
Speaker Change: We've also recently unveiled a new vision for Cité de Multimédia, a portfolio of assets located between Old Montreal and Griffintown, comprising eight buildings totalling more than 1.1 million square feet.
Cité de Multimédia has been rebranded La Cité and will offer allied modern and allied heritage workspace solutions, as well as an enhanced amenity experience for users and an improved necessity-based retail and service component consistent with amenity-rich urban neighbourhoods.
We are extremely pleased with the progress of the transformation of the retail offering as we have completed or are finalizing leases for the entirety of the retail space at 111 Boulevard, Robert Barasa, totaling 21,000 square feet.
Most of our vacancy in Montreal is concentrated within La Cité and we believe this new vision will help attract knowledge-based organizations.
Speaker Change: In Toronto and Kitchener, we continue to see an increase in demand from prospective users with larger space requirements that are greater than 10,000 square feet.
We recently unveiled an enhanced vision for our concentration of assets within the King and Spadina neighborhood now known as King West Village
King West Village is an amenity-rich urban neighbourhood unrivaled by any other and offers Allied Modern, Allied Heritage and Allied Flex workspace solutions across 57 buildings totaling more than 2.6 million square feet.
as well as a new amenity offering exclusive to Allied users at 460 King that will be branded Block by Allied. Most of our vacancy in Toronto is concentrated within King West Village, in part due to users that relocated to the well. In Q3, we leased more than 40,000 square feet in King West Village.
Speaker Change: At 19 Duncan, we have leased 69 residential suites, representing 16%. We anticipate we will achieve stabilized lease-up in the second half of 2025.
Speaker Change: In Calgary, Phase 2 of the Downtown Development Incentive Program was introduced to support office conversions, and the eligible catchment area was expanded to include the Beltline. While we have no intention of pursuing residential conversions, we expect to see an increase in near-term demand from users in buildings slated for conversion.
We also recently unveiled a new vision for our Heritage on 6th Avenue portfolio comprising the Lougheed Building, Telephone Building, and Oddfellows Building. This new vision incorporates enhanced amenity offerings and leverages our ecosystem of premium heritage assets located in the heart of Calgary's Central Business District.
Speaker Change: As reported last quarter, we leased the entirety of Our Fellows to an educational user, Cornerstone College, and believe this new vision will drive leasing activity in the balance of the Heritage on 6th Avenue portfolio.
Speaker Change: In Vancouver, there has been an influx of new entrants to the market and increased demand for urban workspace among organizations currently located in suburban environments.
Speaker Change: In addition, we are starting to see an increase in demand from prospective users with larger space requirements that are greater than 10,000 square feet.
Vancouver remains the strongest leasing market in Canada. 400 West Georgia is currently 82% leased. There are four floors totaling 64,000 square feet that remain available.
There are presently three prospective organizations with requirements ranging from one to two floors currently touring the asset. As discussed on our Q2 call, we anticipate the remaining vacancy will be leased with users in possession in the second half of 2025.
We continue to be very active in engaging our partners in the brokerage community. In Q2, we held broker assemblies in Montreal and Toronto, where we shared Allied's vision for the future of Canadian cities and introduced the three urban formats that make up our portfolio, Allied Heritage, Allied Modern, and Allied Flex.
In Q3, we engaged in similar outreach with each of the major brokerages in Vancouver and Calgary.
Ally's commitment to sustainability and user experience remain foundational pillars of our operating platform.
In Q3, we announced our commitment to set near and long-term greenhouse gas emission reduction targets in line with the Science-Based Targets Initiative and a 1.5-degree Celsius decarbonization pathway.
We will submit our targets for validation by the SBTI in the first half of 2025, and we'll disclose them once they have been validated.
We also announced our 2024 RES scores based on the 2023 reporting year.
Speaker Change: We achieved a score of 84 for standing investments and 86 for developments.
We remain at or above the GRES average for both scores, five points above the peer average for standing investments, and two points below the peer average for developments.
Our ability to sustain long, strong performance highlights our commitment to achieve long-term sustainability.
Speaker Change: We are currently completing our 2024 User Experience Assessment Survey in partnership with Grace Hill Kingsley Surveys. The results will be shared on our Q4 conference call.
Speaker Change: In 2023, our Net Promoter Score was 250% higher than our peers, and the interim results of this year's survey are reflective of continued outperformance relative to our peers. I will now turn the call back to Cecilia.
Thanks, JP. Before we turn to questions, I want to reiterate my confidence that our portfolio will not only hold up well in this economic environment, as it has during past downturns.
but will ultimately emerge in a stronger position for the following reasons.
Number one, our differentiated operating platform. This is the combination of our one-of-a-kind concentration of urban properties we own and the strong team that operates them.
and two, the intensification potential inherent in our portfolio which represents decades of continued growth and this is all in the context of our thriving cities which continue to attract global talent.
Last week, Montreal, Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver were ranked in the top four of livable cities in North America. Globally, three of them were ranked in the top 12 of livable cities.
These rankings are based on an assessment of stability, healthcare, culture and environment, education, and infrastructure.
While many of us may not appreciate the livability of our cities as we have to live through the growing pangs that come with their increasing popularity, the fact is that our cities continue to grow.
Speaker Change: and all this growth leads to demand that we're well positioned to satisfy and serve.
We'd now be pleased to answer any questions.
Speaker Change: In the question and answer session, if you'd like to ask a question.
Speaker Change: And if you would like to withdraw your questions, simply press star 1 again. Thank you. All passports are required to compile the Q&A roster.
And our first question comes from the line of Jonathan Kloscher with TD Cowen. Jonathan, your line is now open.
Jonathan Kloscher: Thanks, good morning. First question, just on the the press release...
If I look at Q3's press release versus Q2, you guys seem a lot more confident in terms of near-term leasing activity. I'm just curious as to what gives you that increased confidence.
Jonathan, I think there are three things. First, the increasing utilization that we are seeing across our portfolio, coupled with greater clarity with respect to the macroeconomic environment, which is leading organizations to make real estate decisions, decisions that had been deferred over the past 24 months. And we're seeing that in our conversion rate.
Of the new leasing activity that we reported last quarter, we completed 68% of that compared to our average over the past 12 months of 42% and a median of 38%.
Jonathan Kloscher: The second is the increasing expansion activity that we are observing. As noted, Q3 represented the most expansion activity that we achieved and it's representative of all sectors and across all markets.
And then lastly, the increasing size of mandates that we're seeing from prospective users.
across the country which is now translating into deal activity. Last quarter we completed eight transactions in excess of 10,000 square feet. This quarter we completed 12 including five greater than 25,000 square feet and one greater than 50,000 square feet.
Okay, that's helpful. I'm guessing you're not giving targets on where you think occupancy can get to, but I guess you've had a couple quarters in a row where you've been relatively flat or up a tiny little bit. Based on what you know over the next four or five quarters, do you expect any dips in the occupancy level as the trend sort of improves?
Speaker Change: No, Jonathan, we don't.
Okay and then secondly just on the the assets held for sale and you guys identify them as lower yielding what what should we sort of think of as an average cap rate or an average yield on costs there on those?
Jonathan, I would say, on average...
3.5% yeah and the cap rate isn't
Jonathan Kloscher: indicative of much because some of the assets are we're selling and the sale price is based on intensification potential and they're lower yielding because we've also been vacating them because in some instances they actually have more value being vacant so the cap rate isn't really an applicable metric.
Speaker Change: For sure, just trying to get an idea of how much NOI to take out. Jonathan, no. Sorry, go ahead.
yeah I was that's the point I made it's
And if you look at where we are today in terms of interest rates, it's accretive.
Speaker Change: No, for sure. Thanks. I'll turn it back.
Our next question comes from the line of Brad Sturges with Raymond James. Brad, your line is now open.
Brad Sturges: Hey, good morning.
You've made a lot of progress on the financing side of things. Lots of mortgage commitments that you've highlighted in your disclosures. I want to get a sense on timing. With some of that closing Q4, is that more into early 2025?
Speaker Change: So
Speaker Change: Q3 will close in Q4. The CMHC financing will close in Q1 of 2025.
Speaker Change: Okay.
That's the 19 Duncan one that you were referring to? Yes, that's the 19 Duncan one.
Speaker Change: and everything is rate locked right now, so you wouldn't expect any changes to the rates provided.
The spread's obviously locked, but the rate isn't. Well, we're tracking to when we want a rate lock. The GOC's not on the great right now, so we'll keep an eye on that, and that's part of the reason why we haven't closed yet.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Bye-bye.
I guess my last question would be, just on King Toronto, I saw the changes in the project costs.
quarter over quarter, and that obviously has a negative impact on yield. Just want to understand what's driving the change in the estimated cost of the project.
Yes, so a couple of things. We had
three units that sold in Q3.
On average, we achieved
Speaker Change: close to performance rates, so there was
Speaker Change: The cost increases of
the supply chain issues that we had mentioned previously and the impairment was due to the cost increases, the carrying cost and then the remaining net proceeds or the proceeds on the revenue.
I'm assuming you're referring to the impairment.
Well, I mean, just quarter over quarter, just looking at King, Toronto, the cost in the table that you disclosed, I think it was up like $35, $36 million a quarter over quarter. So just, is that related to the additional credit facility that you're funding to West Bank or is that?
Is there something else driving that?
It's basically there's a combination of higher construction costs, a little bit of delay, which also means a little bit more capitalized interest. So all of that is going into the higher construction costs. Okay, okay. Thanks a lot. I'll turn it back.
All right.
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Speaker Change: Thank you. Bye-bye.
Hello? Mark, are you there? Okay, yeah. Okay, sorry about that. I just had a technical issue. So, for the next question, come from the line of PAMI Beer with RBC Capital Markets. PAMI, your line is now open.
Yeah, thanks. Can you maybe just clarify, Nan, I think you said that one of those mortgages is not rate-locked. Sorry, does that apply to all of the financings that you flagged in the release or just the CMHC financing at Duncan?
Speaker Change: No, none of those are rate locked yet.
So we have the commitments in place and we have up to 30 days to re-log.
Okay, and so if the spreads are locked, what's sort of the, if you were to lock them around today, just roughly what would that all in financing come in at?
Speaker Change: They're, compared to the rates that we disclosed, about 10 to 20 bibs different. Yeah, it's within the press release, Pami.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Just coming back to the sublease space in Montreal, can you maybe just comment on what drove, there was a sizable uptick in that particular market. What did that relate to? Was it one property or multiple locations?
Speaker Change: Secondly, do you expect any of that to turn into direct vacancy?
Speaker Change: The space represents approximately 200,000 square feet.
It is dated and certainly won't compete with the upgraded product that we're bringing to market.
Speaker Change: In Q3, 100,000 square feet came off the sublease market in our portfolio, and the number of suites listed for availability through sublease
is currently 46 compared to 63 at the outset of this year. And to answer your question with respect to the term remaining, the weighted average lease term of our sublease space across our national portfolio is 5.7 years.
Speaker Change: Okay, that's helpful. And then just in terms of coming back to the leasing question and the confidence around, you know, some of the factors that you highlighted that should drive stronger activity, anything large coming up, you know, for renewal either Q4 or into 2025 that you think may not get renewed?
We don't have any material, no non-renewals in the near term, the largest in 2024.
represents approximately 30,000 square feet.
at our Nortelec property in Montreal.
where we have a standalone building on land that represents opportunity for intensification. This particular structure caters to industrial-like users, and the user currently located will be leaving at the end of November.
and moving off-island to a larger industrial site. Looking to next year, we have space here at 134 Peter that will be coming back.
Speaker Change: from Entertainment One.
Speaker Change: and we have space in Calgary.
that is currently on the sublease market at Vintage Towers that we know will be coming back to us, which was a result of M&A activity.
a few years ago. Looking to 2026, we have two users at 840 Canby. That will be one relocating to a newer development of ours in Vancouver, another relocating to a development we don't own.
but they will be vacating around the same time, which presents an opportunity for us to...
Re-evaluate the strategy associated with that asset, which represents opportunities to improve the existing space and or intensify the site. So we view that as opportunistic. So to answer your question in short, no material, large, no non-renewals over the next three years.
Thank you very much. Great. Thank you.
Just at 150 West Georgia, the West Bank loan, there any update on what's happening at that site and thoughts on repayment timing?
Pami: Pami, the site has been zoned for data center development, and through the presence of the Creative Energy Plant coupled with a partnership with BC Hydro, there's an opportunity to bring an abundance of power to the site, offering very high densities, which is unique for an urban data center location.
and with support of the property investment brokerage team that supported the sale of the UDC portfolio will be bringing that data center development opportunity to market in the new year.
Got it. Last one for me, just on the distribution side, you know you mentioned at the outset, you know, the confidence in sustaining it. I'm just, I know you typically decide I think in the next month or so as far as the outlook for the year ahead. I'm just curious, any color you can share in terms of how management's thinking about the distribution at this point?
We're thinking of keeping it certainly at the level that it's currently at.
Speaker Change: Thanks very much. I'll turn it back.
Our next question will come from the line of Lauren Colmar with Deja Dei. Lauren, your line is now open.
Speaker Change: Yes, 3.9 years.
Okay, perfect.
And then, you know, I know you say you don't have a ton of non-renewals, but obviously the non-renewals have kind of impacted St. Property NOI over the balance or over the course of this year. When you are seeing non-renewals, you know, outside of relocations, where are tenants generally going or is it just downsizing? Like what's what's kind of the trend there?
Lauren, it does vary, but I can tell you that we are seeing a decline in the number of tenants that are not renewing because they are downsizing.
Speaker Change: So year over year, we have seen a decline in the number of tenants not renewing because they are downsizing.
And Lauren, just for further clarity, over the past two years, that reason has represented less than half of the reasons for non-renewals.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Okay, are you seeing instances of folks obviously, you know, in Toronto you've got the nodes sort of outside of the core, are you seeing folks looking to move into the core or not as much?
I think we are. We're certainly seeing the more and more of that in Vancouver, but I think organizations, as they evaluate their workplace strategy and endeavor to offer great workplace experiences to attract, motivate, and retain exceptional talent, recognize that they need to be located in many rich urban environments and there's no greater place to do that than Canadian cities.
Fair enough. And then on King, Toronto, I mean, obviously, there's a
You guys had to do some deals with West Bank and there was another deal done by one of your retail peers. Is there any concern that you might have to take in a portion of their interest on the project or bring in another partner?
We're not talking about bringing on another partner and taking on more interest in the project wouldn't be a concern to us, but it's not something that we're contemplating at this time.
Okay, that's all for me. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
And our final question comes from Sumaya Syed with CIBC. Sumaya, your line is now open.
Excluding which it looks like it was flat whereas previously you've kind of gotten a single digit or better. Can you just provide some more color on the spreads you got in the quarter?
Speaker Change: No problem, Samaya.
First, as you referenced, we renewed a user in a flex building in Toronto that was looking to rationalize their space.
They were in space that we could not demise and we did not have an option to relocate them elsewhere.
Speaker Change: So in the spirit of continuing the relationship with this particular user whom we value
We decided to offer economic terms that were appropriate for their current circumstances but did not invest any meaningful capital, so the net effect of rent was consistent with market despite the lower in-place rent.
Secondly, we had a higher volume of renewals in Calgary and when you account for those coupled with the flex renewal that you make reference to, the increase in rates from beginning to ending was 5.3% and the average was 15.7% in line with prior quarters.
Okay so when you do do leasing on the flex assets that's typically at positive spreads and this quarter was more of a one-off.
Speaker Change: correct that was circumstantial to a unique user and we made a strategic decision to retain them in our portfolio.
Okay, great. And then maybe a question for Nan. So on your deck, you have a deleveraging waterfall and how to get to mid-8 times leverage. Can you walk through a similar buildup for NOI or EBITDA for the next two years and just touch on, I guess, the major building blocks of that $85 million in EBITDA that you expect?
Speaker Change: Yeah, so currently in 2024, we have 63 million contributions from our development completions.
We anticipate in 2025, I'm talking annual numbers, not incremental. In 2025, it'll be.
$80 million and then it builds up to the what's disclosed in our PUD tables to the remaining $100 million over 2026, end of 2026.
Okay, got it. And just lastly, can we get an update on lease up at 19 Duncan?
We have leased up 69 residential suites representing 16% and we expect to achieve stabilized lease up in the second half of 2025.
Okay, that's all for me. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thanks.
And we have a new question from Matt Kornick with National Banks Financial. Matt, your line is now open.
Just a quick follow-up, man, on your NOI commentary there. So is the net incremental, like 63 current, 80 next year, and then 100, so it's, call it 37 million of incremental NOI, that you'd add over, like, from an annual standpoint?
Speaker Change: Twenty… Showing. Twenty-six.
Speaker Change: in 2025.
Or maybe if you could give just what would be the incremental contribution for 2025 and for 2026.
Speaker Change: Sure, it'll be $17 million, so you're getting from the $63 million to the $80 million.
Okay, and then 25, then 20 million additional
It's in 26, yeah.
Speaker Change: Bye-bye.
Thanks for that. And then on the market potential, particularly for the remaining 2024 maturities.
A, can you clarify as to whether...
is already leased but it looks particularly high. In Montreal, it's 41%sp as of January 2021, with a lease of 106,000sqft 12 of Calgary a small amount of pace. But I think 36,000sqft at 143% renewal spread is almost unreliable. Are those locked in or is that still a prospective leasing that you hope to do?
Are you talking about what we disclosed in the MD&A on page 55, Matt? Are you talking about the upcoming maturities?
Speaker Change: No, what we disclose on page 55 are the upcoming maturities. It doesn't reflect the maturities in future years that we already leased. That's been removed. This is what still needs to be renewed.
Are there prospects or why? I think the Montreal it sounds like it may be that Nortel-X space
Speaker Change: that J.P. mentioned, would be bringing down kind of the in-place rent. But yeah, why, given the big mark-to-market, what's kind of the delay in renting them?
I mean we start speaking with users 18 months in advance of when their lease matures so we would certainly be in negotiation with all of those users it's just the deals aren't done yet. And the average in place
rents would reflect firms that were agreed to five ten plus years ago and as the market has grown naturally there's a wider spread on our near-term maturities to market.
Speaker Change: No, that makes sense.
Speaker Change: Last one just
I think something like 40% of your earnings right now is either capitalized interest, capitalized GNA, or kind of paid-in-kind interest income.
Can you give us a sense, I think somewhat of it gets answered in that conversion to NY, but how should we think about that proportion of your earnings that's non-cash coming down over maybe through 2026?
I think that's something that we'll give more color on as part of our year-end call where we outline our expectations for 2025, Matt. We'll make sure to address that.
Appreciate it. Thank you very much, guys.
Our next question comes from the line of Mario Saric with Scotiabank. Mario, your line is now open.
Second question, just coming back and I guess more of a bigger picture if we sit back at the start of the year and I'm asking about occupancy. At the start of the year the expectation was for occupancy to accelerate in the second half of this year and you're sounding a bit more confident that it will. How would the Q3 numbers, both leased and economic, compare to what your expectation was?
at the start of the year, and if it's any different, what do you think has been the driver behind the variants?
Yeah, we didn't have a lot of visibility at the start of the year, Mario, which is why we were shy about providing...
Speaker Change: you know.
and I am the director of the Office of Specific Numerical Internal Expectations on Leased and Occupied Areas. I'd say that today our optimism is a lot higher than it was in January and we feel we have
and I think we have more visibility today as well versus in January. So we're pleased that our leased area has been holding the last two quarters. Of course, I would have preferred for it to have been
materially up but I'll take I'll take a steady so I think someone said to someone said to me that holding flat is the new up
and, you know, we certainly are feeling that way today, but we're also feeling like it's, we're at that turning point and I would expect us to start seeing
Slow but steady increase in our leased and occupied area over the next few quarters.
So we're excited about how it's feeling in the market and our conversations with the brokers and with our users and with prospective users that are touring our space all validates that feeling that we have.
Okay, and like in the flat sequential for the entire portfolio it kind of masks a couple of
in varying terms. Toronto was up 150 basis points sequentially, a really good increase.
When you look at the sub-nodes within Toronto, virtually all the sub-nodes saw higher.
economic and lease documency in Q3 than in Q2 and that was completely offset by erosion in Montreal and Vancouver which is dissimilar to
Speaker Change: The question is, how would you rate your level of confidence and higher occupancy in Montreal and Vancouver relative to your confidence increasing occupancy in Toronto going forward?
We remain confident across all markets, Mario. In Montreal, we are confident.
in part because of the new vision that we recently unveiled for La Cite.
and the new amenity and necessity-based, service-oriented retail program that we are introducing, which we've had tremendous success leasing.
And so we believe that that concentration of assets, representing 1.1 million square feet, will attract knowledge-based organizations and is more and more representative of an amenity-rich urban environment.
characteristic of our portfolio nationally coupled with the improving investment in that area more broadly.
Secondly, in Vancouver, our leased area is slightly lower than the market because of the introduction of the vacancy at 400 West Georgia, coupled with suppressed occupancy at 1185 West Georgia while we complete upgrade activity.
Speaker Change: Okay, then maybe last one more about an accounting question from and perhaps the
Speaker Change: The $22 million of improvement allowances and leasing commissions disclosed during Q3. I just wanted to verify that that is applicable to the 617,000 square feet of leasing that was completed during the quarter, so that equates to roughly $35 a square foot. Or does some of it apply to prior leasing that pertains to leases that commenced during the quarter?
Yeah, Mario, it's based on Lease Commencement, so it's...
They could be part of the 600 that took occupancy within the quarter that's reflected in there, but there's a bulk of what we did in the previous quarters that took occupancy or lease commencement this quarter, so we would have reflected that this quarter.
Speaker Change: Okay, so with that, would it be notably different than like the $35 a square foot that I calculated just based on what we think this quarter in the $22 million?
Are you talking about the average leasing cost per square foot? Right.
Speaker Change: No, that is consistent with our NERs that we've
Speaker Change: reflected in the past at $4.70 per square foot. Yeah, correct, Mariel. Our net effective rents are now back in line with 2020 levels.
Speaker Change: And our leasing costs, the average leasing costs for our rental portfolio over the past year has remained constant, and as Nan said, it is $4.70 a foot.
Okay, that's it for me. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thanks.
There is no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call over to Cecilia for closing remarks. Cecilia?
Thanks, Mark, and thanks everyone for joining our Q3 conference call. We'll keep you updated on our progress going forward.
That concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.