Q3 2024 James River Group Holdings Ltd Earnings Call
Thank you.
Kate: Thank you for standing by. My name is Kate, and I will be your conference operator today.
Kate: At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the James River Group Q3 2024 earnings call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time,
Kate: Simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press star one again. Thank you. I would now like to turn the call over to Zachary Scheidel, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Thank you.
Zachary Scheidel: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the James River Group 3rd Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call.
Zachary Scheidel: During the call, we will be making forward-looking statements. These statements are based on current beliefs, intentions, expectations, and assumptions that are subject to various risks and uncertainties, which may cause actual results to differ materially.
Zachary Scheidel: For a discussion of such risks and uncertainties, please see the cautionary language regarding forwarding statements in yesterday's earnings release and the risk factors of our most recent Form 10-K and 10-Q and other reports and filings we have made with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Zachary Scheidel: We do not undertake any duty to update any forward-looking statements.
Zachary Scheidel: In addition, during this presentation, we may reference non-GAAP financial measures such as adjusted net operating income, underwriting profit, tangible equity, tangible common equity, and adjusted net operating return on tangible common equity.
Zachary Scheidel: Please refer to our earnings press release for reconciliation of these numbers to GAAP, a copy of which can be found on our website at www.jrvrgroup.com.
Zachary Scheidel: Lastly, unless otherwise specified for the reasons described in our earnings press release, all underwriting performance ratios referred to are for our continuing operations in business that is not subject to retroactive reinsurance accounting for lost portfolio transfers.
Speaker Change: I will now turn the call over to Frank Dorazio, Chief Executive Officer of James River Group.
Thank you.
Frank DOrazio: Thank you for that introduction, Zach. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our third quarter 2024 earnings call.
Frank DOrazio: We're excited to be joining you this morning to discuss what has been a very active quarter for James River, and by that, specifically, I'm referring to the meaningful strategic actions that we announced with our earnings last night in our corresponding investor presentation or FAQ document.
Frank DOrazio: In addition to providing detailed commentary specific to our announcements, I also plan to speak to market conditions and the future outlook for James River.
Thank you. Thank you.
Frank DOrazio: Last night's release announced significant validating investments from two of the most sophisticated investors in the insurance sector, one being amongst the P&C industry's most respected voices on claims and reserving, and the other an existing investor who has witnessed the refocused transformation of the company over the last few years.
Frank DOrazio: These and other actions, including a meaningful reduction to our fixed charges, position our balance sheet favorably as we focus on putting capital to work across the attractive opportunities that we're seeing in our well-regarded E&S franchise.
Thank you for joining us. Thank you.
Speaker Change: First, on capital, NSTAR Group has agreed to invest an additional 12.5 million dollars in newly issued common equity at a share price of $6.40 over and above the shares it had previously purchased in the open market.
Speaker Change: Through this transaction, we expect that NSTAR, one of the industry's foremost voices on reserves, will be among our top five shareholders.
Speaker Change: We have also amended the Series A convertible preferred shares held by Gallatin Point Capital and converted $37.5 million, or 25% of the security outstanding, to common equity, also at a share price of $6.40.
Speaker Change: In doing so, we strengthen our common equity base, but also reduce the preferred dividend both in total quantum, as well as by pushing it out to stay at 7% for five years, and then capping it upon reset. Finally, we've also reduced our quarterly common dividend to $0.01 per share.
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Next, in our efforts to continue to reduce reserve volatility, we have entered into a 75 million dollar limit top-up adverse development cover, also with NSTAR, on our E&S reserves from accident years 2010 to 2023, attaching directly above the legacy cover we bound and announced with State National in July.
Speaker Change: Upon closing of this new layer following regulatory approval, the company will have $150 million of gross legacy coverage remaining to protect our E&S Reserve portfolio.
Speaker Change: Since I joined the company in late 2020, we've worked diligently to address legacy balance sheet issues and de-risk the organization to allow it to focus on its strengths.
Speaker Change: With these actions, we believe we've walled off reserve development from the past business and have positioned James River extremely well to move forward and take advantage of the robust underwriting environment still benefiting our E&S franchise.
Speaker Change: With the company now simplified and refocused on our flagship DNS insurance operations
Speaker Change: And with our balance sheet now bolstered and further validated by leading industry investors, the James River Board of Directors has concluded that the company is well poised to provide significant future value to shareholders beyond what would be available in the sale of the company today, and as a result, has concluded the strategic review process.
Speaker Change: Fully aware of their responsibilities to shareholders, the board will continue to be responsive to compelling future proposals to create shareholder value, but feels bringing the strategic review to a conclusion at this time is appropriate.
Speaker Change: Now, turning to our results for the quarter. We reported a net loss from continuing operations of $1.07 per share and adjusted net operating loss of $0.74 per share. The vast majority of the loss was driven by the impact to the state and national ADC, which we announced in July, and accounted for this quarter, as well as the results of our third quarter actuarial detailed valuation review.
Speaker Change: I'll come back to both of those items in a moment and Sarah will also provide additional detail on those topics as well
Speaker Change: However, to briefly frame the impact of the state and national ADC in the third quarter reserve charge, we are reporting a combined ratio for the ENS segment of 136.1%, but the current accident year combined ratio for the segment is 92.6%.
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Our flagship E&S business continues to benefit from strong submission growth and significant rate increases.
Speaker Change: Underwriting conditions for a heavily weighted SME platform remain very attractive. We see meaningful opportunities to write profitable business across our portfolio and continue to benefit from strong employee retention and unwavering support from our distribution partners.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker Change: Submission growth continued to be robust during the third quarter with new submissions increasing 10% while renewal submissions increased 12%.
Speaker Change: We again saw over 80,000 submissions during the third quarter, a continuation of the strong trends we have experienced this year.
Speaker Change: I would highlight our environmental and general casualty divisions, which saw submission growth of 29% and 24% respectively, while manufacturers and contractors saw submission growth of 13%.
Speaker Change: In addition to submission growth, our E&S business continues to experience favorable pricing conditions across our 14 underwriting divisions. Renewal rates for the quarter were up 8.6% across the segment and 9.4% year-to-date.
Speaker Change: The majority of our underwriting divisions saw pricing increases in the high single-digit range for the quarter, while excess casualties saw renewal rate increases slightly in excess of 20%.
Speaker Change: Rates in environmental and general casualty were each up 8% while energy was up 7%. We remain confident that rate increases are continuing to exceed loss trends allowing us to generate what we believe will be attractive margins on the portfolio.
Speaker Change: Our E&S segment grew gross premiums by 6% during the quarter, led by growth of 12% in excess casualty and 10% in manufacturers and contractors. Our excess property underwriting unit continued to see market pressure on pricing and terms during the quarter, and as a result, gross written premiums declined 8% compared to the prior year quarter.
Speaker Change: Comparatively, our overall casualty portfolio grew by 6.7% compared to the third quarter of 2023.
Speaker Change: As previewed moments ago, our ENS segment results were really influenced by two substantial dynamics during the quarter.
Speaker Change: The impact of our previously disclosed E&S legacy reinsurance transaction with State National and our detailed internal valuation review of E&S reserves.
Speaker Change: These two dynamics pushed our E&S combined ratio to 136.1% as the segment produced an underwriting loss of $50.2 million for the quarter, while the accident year loss ratio was 64.7% also for the third quarter.
Speaker Change: Over the past several years, we have continued to enhance and improve our capabilities around enterprise risk management, including a more in-depth third quarter internal reserve review process, our Annual Detailed Valuation Review, or DVR, which is a review of our entire E&S reserve balance.
Speaker Change: Over the last two years, we've taken steps to make this parameter review even more thorough and granular than it had been in the past.
Speaker Change: Enhancements to this process include the introduction of new methods, more refined segmentation, and a more detailed analysis of both gross and AO reserves.
Speaker Change: Before moving on, I'd like to spend a few additional minutes discussing the findings of the DVR process.
Speaker Change: While overall frequency was down for most lines of business, in response to observed increases in severity, most acute in our other liability occurrence, and to a lesser extent our product liability lines, we have materially increased our view of loss trend and have made selected adjustments to our loss development tail factors.
Speaker Change: These actions put pressure on our carried reserves, and we have reacted and responded accordingly.
Speaker Change: This process resulted in a 76 million dollar reserve charge prior to sessions to the state national ADC.
Speaker Change: The majority of the reserve additions are in the 2021 and prior accident years and are more concentrated in the 2019 to 2021 years in our other liability occurrence and product liability lines business.
Thank you.
with some smaller offsetting movements in the other segments.
Speaker Change: On a net basis, when applying the cover provided by the State National ADC, the reserve charge for the quarter is $57 million, which includes the previously announced $52.2 million of premium paid to State National in conjunction with the transaction we announced in July.
Speaker Change: As I've said over the last few quarters, we have made numerous underwriting changes across the portfolio over the last few years at the expense of non-renewed premium, especially in our Commercial Auto, General Casualty, Energy, and Excess Casualty underwriting divisions.
Speaker Change: Whether through several years of compounding positive rate change, exiting challenging classes, or adding exclusionary language or sublimits to restrict coverage, our underwriters have taken ample, proactive actions
Speaker Change: to better position the future profitability of the portfolio while further establishing the underwriting culture of the segment.
Speaker Change: We are remaining cautious toward recognizing any of these underwriting improvements to date in our actuarial analysis, despite promising early indications. Our DVR process reaffirmed our belief in the profitability of the 2023 and 2024 accident years, although we expect to be patient in recognizing it.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Turning to specialty admitted, gross written premiums in our fronting and programs business increased 9% compared to the prior year quarter and 14% year-to-date, excluding the impact of workers' compensation business that is now in runoff.
Speaker Change: The segment produced a combined ratio of 91.3% and an underwriting profit of 1.8 million dollars for the third quarter
Speaker Change: Specialty Admitted continues to execute on its objectives and overall performs very well.
Speaker Change: Finally, I should mention that the company experienced no net CAT losses for either our E&S or specialty admitted segments for the third quarter.
Speaker Change: In summary, we are excited about the strategic actions that we are announcing this quarter because we firmly believe they help us to move past the legacy issues of James River's past, particularly with the benefit of the validating investments of NSTAR and Gallatin Point.
Speaker Change: We look forward to exiting the strategic review process and providing additional certainty to our employees, stakeholders, and distribution partners.
Speaker Change: We are bullish about the company's prospects after taking significant actions to de-risk the balance sheet and are looking ahead to the fourth quarter, as well as 2025, to continue to take advantage of underwriting opportunities while creating value for shareholders.
Speaker Change: And with that, I'll ask Sarah to provide some additional color on the quarter.
Sarah: Thank you very much, Frank. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us today.
Speaker Change: As we are announcing a number of things today, I thought I would focus my comments on certain key dynamics as well as some of the data points from the Lost Portfolio Transfer we executed in July 2024, as that's now flowed through the financials.
Speaker Change: To start from the top, as Frank mentioned, we reported a net loss from continuing operations of $1.07 per share and adjusted net operating loss of $0.74 per share.
Speaker Change: The loss was generated in the ENS segment and was driven by the previously disclosed impact of the State National, or July, reinsurance transaction, which closed at the beginning of the quarter.
Speaker Change: as well as by the additional reserve development we recognized as part of our third quarter detailed valuation review.
Speaker Change: Coming out of that review, we increased loss and loss adjustment expense in the ENS segment by $76.3 million this quarter.
Speaker Change: This included the previously announced $52.2 million of excess consideration over reserves seeded in connection with the July reinsurance transaction, as well as a $19.2 million deferred
and a $4.8 million charge, which we effectively retained.
Speaker Change: So, the unfavorable reserve development in the ENS segment not subject to retroactive accounting is $57 million, i.e., the 52.2 plus the 4.8.
Speaker Change: And of course, the $165,000 of favorable development from our specialty admitted segment.
Speaker Change: This $57 million is close to the $52.2 we effectively pre-announced upon execution of the July reinsurance transaction.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: The reinsurance contract we closed in July, like the one we signed yesterday, covers the majority of our casualty E&S reserves from 2010 to 2023 inclusive and incepts on January 1st of this year.
Speaker Change: This means it covers the majority of the first quarter and second quarter E&S reserve development we previously announced.
Speaker Change: Year-to-date, we have added $84 million of pure reserves to our balance sheet, which are subject to the reinsurance transactions.
Speaker Change: So that leaves $71 million, which has been ceded to the July reinsurance transaction.
Thank you for joining us.
Once the transaction, we signed yesterday, closes.
Speaker Change: As of October 1, we would have $150 million of gross additional reserve cover available to us in the aggregate.
Speaker Change: for the years 2010 to 2023, inclusive, or $140 million net, because as we mentioned, the July contract has the 15% corridor, which we retain.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker Change: The pre-tax cost of the new cover from NSTAR is $52.8 million and that will flow through our financials in the quarter in which the transaction closes.
Speaker Change: As for the financing, we expect to ultimately issue 7.8 million additional common shares as a result of the conversion and sale of $50 million of common equity.
Speaker Change: Which is very valuable to us given the robust set of opportunities to put capital to work
Speaker Change: The addition of the reserve development cover, reduction in fixed charge outflows,
Speaker Change: Underwriting changes made over the last few years and what we currently see as well-performing reserves, especially for the last two years, makes us very focused on turning the page and continuing to take advantage of a franchise and opportunity set with a robust set of opportunities in the wholesale E&S market.
Turning back to our quarter and specifically the profitability ratios.
Speaker Change: There were two dynamics this quarter, aside from our reserve addition, which impacted the profitability ratios.
Speaker Change: These were reinstatement premiums and elevated G&A expenses, both at ENS.
Speaker Change: These increased the Group Combined Ratio by about 6.5 points and the ENS Combined Ratio by about 8 points.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
for a moment on the expense ratio.
Speaker Change: At this quarter, our expense ratio was 31.4%, which is increased from the 26.4% a year ago.
Speaker Change: Absent these two dynamics, which I just mentioned, our group 31.4% expense ratio would have been about a point below the nine-month result of 28.8, which is closer to where we expect it to be.
Speaker Change: and the ENS expense ratio would have been around 24% rather than the 27.9% we reported.
Speaker Change: For the third quarter, we recorded net investment income of $23.6 million from continuing operations, an increase of 8.1% or $1.8 million from the prior year quarter.
Speaker Change: Included in that investment income is a final payment of about $800,000 associated with one of our renewable energy investments which was previously sold.
Speaker Change: Our embedded book yield remained constant compared to the prior year quarter at 4.4%.
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker Change: We were able to invest a sizable portion of our CAF position into high quality assets with yields in excess of our embedded portfolio book yield during the quarter.
Speaker Change: As we look forward, we continue to see attractive yields averaging in the low 5% range.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: We experienced $4.2 million of net realized and unrealized gains on investments, the majority of which were related to changes in fair values of our common stock portfolio.
Speaker Change: Offset by realized losses on sales in our bank loan and fixed income portfolios.
Thank you for joining us. Thank you.
Speaker Change: So with that, I'll turn the call back over to the operator to open the line for questions.
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker Change: At this time, I would like to remind everyone, in order to ask a question, press star and then the number 1 on your telephone keypad. We will pause for just a moment to compile the Q&A roster.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Your first question comes from the line of Mark Hughes with Turbo Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Sarah, you had mentioned that the group expense would have been 27.8%.
Speaker Change: as opposed to the 28.8. And then you suggested your expectations. Was that for the 27.8 or the 28.8 would be a good number on a go-forward basis?
I would say the 27.8, Mark.
Mark: So let's round that to 28, but we've never been super specific on that dollar amount, but I would say that's the right area to think about.
Speaker Change: Yeah, and then with the kind of extended tail you've seen...
issues in the other liability occurrence, product liability.
Speaker Change: not going to bedevil the 2023 or 2024 accident years. And then is your pricing, the pricing you've been taking, is that sufficient to account for that tail impact?
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Yeah, Mark, thanks for the question. Let me try to provide a little bit of...
Speaker Change: detail here relative to the DVR process and what we saw and what our actuaries responded to. So, as I suggested, we did a full review of all the underlying assumptions and the methods and
Speaker Change: Our actuaries drew conclusions as to the total reserve need for all lines and accident years. And what was driving our change in assumptions really was severity and reported losses were the biggest driver, which led us to increase both loss development and loss trend assumptions. So
Speaker Change: We meaningfully increased our assumptions on loss trend, increasing that approximately
Twenty-five percent.
Speaker Change: across the major segments, so other liability occurrence, GL, product liability occurrence, and excess liability occurrence. And to be clear,
Speaker Change: You know, as I said, these changes are driven by severity trends. Frequency has not been the issue. I think broadly frequency was down across the portfolio with maybe one exception. In fact, other liability occurrence, which is a large product line for us, which includes our habitational business in particular,
Speaker Change: are the last two years are taking hold. So, to your point about the more recent years, because it's a full parameter review.
Speaker Change: We also apply the same process to our current year by definition, and we see meaningful redundancy in the 24-year and intend to be patient with it. So, as I noted in my script during the DVR process, we've not taken any credit for all the underwriting actions in addition to the rate.
Speaker Change: that we've taken across the book in the past few years. And so in other words, we didn't lower reserves for what we believe are gonna be better performing businesses as those reserves mature in the more recent years.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Bye.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Merzis with UBS. Thank you. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Frank, just quickly, as a follow-on to that one, you said you increased your trend assumptions by about 25%. Can you give us a perspective on what you're assuming casualty trend is right now on your reserves and when you're pricing for?
Speaker Change: I think we've said over the course of past quarters this year that we've cut up a high
single-digit
Speaker Change: View of Lost Trend for 24. We're actually in the process of
finalizing our budget for 2025 so
Speaker Change: I'll be able to refresh that view for you when we talk again in another couple of months. But as of, you know, the 24 view was high single digit.
Speaker Change: And, you know, within that, of course, certain lines are going to be higher, certain lines are going to be lower, particularly in the excess casualty space, you'll be higher.
Speaker Change: Gotcha, gotcha. And it sounds like, just to be clear here, that the reserve development you had in the quarter, nothing came from 23. Any perspective on where it was coming from?
Yeah, again, it was primarily...
Brian: Sure, Brian. So, primarily, 21 and prior, heavier concentration in 19 to 21, and the product lines or lines of business specifically, the primary other liability occurrence,
Brian: Product liability occurrence, some excess liability occurrence. I would say, though, that the driver was the other liability occurrence.
Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Gotcha. And then the next question, I'm just curious on the specially admitted business fronting. What's been going on? Had any effect on that business, like getting into an agreement with State and National, those types of things? How are we thinking about that business going forward?
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
So we've had pretty steady
Speaker Change: premium growth there, 9% premium growth in the fronting business in the third quarter and 14% year-to-date. We continue to experience solid growth from our existing programs.
Speaker Change: We have a pipeline of a number of different new opportunities that we're looking at. It is an area that I think we will continue to be cautious and careful relative to security and unrated reinsurance.
and making sure our contracts are very tight.
Also, you know, stay fairly tight relative to our
Our participations, particularly
Speaker Change: in lines of business like commercial auto. So it's a nice complimentary business, and it's doing very well over the course of 24.
Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: NSTAR is involved in a merger. Any contingencies in your agreement with what's going on with the NSTAR situation?
Speaker Change: No, it's not a concern. Our deal should close here, we expect, fairly shortly. But there are no specific contingencies in the deal for what NSTAR is executing, Brian. It's just regulatory approval for NSTAR for the transaction. That's it.
Perfect. Perfect. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Thanks, Brian.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Mayor Shields with KBW. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Great, thanks, and good morning. I guess first question, going back to the recent accident-error reserves, I'm hoping you could sort of clarify, is this a frequency or the severity of the current loss picks that makes the higher trends apply to earlier years less relevant?
Thank you.
Speaker Change: So, I just want to make sure, Mayor, thank you for the question, I just want to make sure I'm answering it for you. The issue was not about frequency, and these were prior years, we're very comfortable with the current accident years. So, in fact...
Speaker Change: just relative frequency, I think the trends were down for just about all product lines except for maybe one. So more of a severity issue and and really not a concern relative to the current accident year.
Speaker Change: Is that because there are higher severity trends already embedded in the current action ear pick?
Yes, I would say that's accurate.
Speaker Change: most recent years obviously have the benefit of all the underwriting actions that we've taken, the better performance monitoring, the 31 quarters of compounded rate that
Speaker Change: You know, it's about 93%, I believe. So, yeah, I would say all those factors kind of influence the current accident year.
Speaker Change: Okay, great. That's helpful. And then when we look at the pricing, was the dip down in the third quarter pricing compared to the first half of the year, is that just a function of property or are you seeing decelerating increases in other lines as well?
Speaker Change: Now, I would say the rate action, you know, we say it all the time, it could bump around a little bit, but...
Speaker Change: you know, 8.6% across ENS and 8.9% in casualty lines. So that's the little additional bump because of properties. So
Speaker Change: We continue to see strong pricing trends. We've experienced this throughout the cycle.
Speaker Change: To your point, rate change varies by line of business, but we continue to see healthy increases in some of our larger lines. In fact, this quarter we saw an acceleration in excess casualty rates at just over 20%.
Speaker Change: So I think the pricing environment remains broadly attractive and I do think
Speaker Change: The reserve pressures that the industry has shown in casualty lines over the next Or over the last few quarters, I should say, should embolden underwriters to continue to take rate That's that's kind of our view
Okay, fantastic. Thank you very much
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from Cassie Alexander with CompassPoint. Please go ahead.
Yes, good morning and thank you for taking my questions.
Speaker Change: Several have been asked, but I have a few more here. Can you define for me exactly of the remaining Gallatin Point position, how much of it has 130% conversion premium versus how much of it has a 200% conversion premium?
Speaker Change: Hi Casey, the entirety of it is 130% on a voluntary basis and the entirety of it is 200% on a mandatory basis.
Okay. All right.
Thank you for that. Secondly.
The $52.8 million cost of the NSTAR
Speaker Change: That closed yesterday, I believe, so that will run in the fourth quarter, and will that be run as a loss, an LAE expense, or will that be run as a reduction of net earned premiums?
Speaker Change: Good questions, Casey. That transaction was executed yesterday. It will close when it receives regulatory approval.
Speaker Change: As I mentioned a second ago, NSTAR needs regulatory approval with the BMA. This is the same situation that we had when we executed an LPT.
Speaker Change: with Fortitude. They also needed the the regulatory approval from the BNA.
Speaker Change: BMA. So when that comes, the transaction will close. We would expect it to be in the fourth quarter, but we don't know and we're not in control of that. So that's when it will be booked.
Speaker Change: So that's the first question. And the second question, we need to work through our accounting when we're closing the quarter and booking the transaction. I would say my initial steer is that it would be booked as additional seeded premium, but we need to work through that in the quarter in which we're closing it.
Speaker Change: As you know, the economic effect is the same, it's just the geography.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: How much was spent on the quarter relative to adjudicating the Fleming dispute?
Speaker Change: I don't think we've broken out those numbers so much, Casey. Our legal fees are fairly de minimis relative to the numbers that we've reported, but I would say it would be, for this quarter, decently under a million dollars.
Cary
Speaker Change: And once again, fees on Specialty Admitted are down year over year. Is that strictly due to workers' comp? Is this an adequate run rate going forward? And what can you do to get the fees growing from Specialty Admitted?
Speaker Change: excuse me, fewer fees as well running through. So it, the fees really, the fronting fees, the fees through the segment move up and down with total GPW. That's probably the way to think about them.
Speaker Change: I'm sorry, I didn't write down the second part of your question. Would you mind repeating that?
Speaker Change: Well, it was, is this a good run rate going forward, is one portion of it, and what does the company need to do to get those fees growing, as obviously that's the major...
Speaker Change: profit driver from the specialty admitted business as far as I can tell.
Speaker Change: That's right. That's a key part of it. I would say the performance of the business has been very stable. But I would kind of go back to my first answer there in saying that the fees will grow as the business grows and the top line grows.
Speaker Change: And that business has always been fairly lumpy and fairly transactional for us.
Speaker Change: Meaning deals come on and certainly to some degree deals go off, but they are bespoke.
Speaker Change: in their cadence. So, you know, we would certainly expect to see those increase over time, but they are bespoke and transaction focused.
All right. Thank you for taking my questions.
Thanks for the questions.
Speaker Change: I will now turn the call back over to Frank DOrazio for closing remarks.
[inaudible]
Frank DOrazio: Okay, thank you. Before we end the call today, I'd like to take a moment to recognize the resolve of James River and its employees. This has been a prolonged process under trying circumstances, and despite those challenges, the company has remained resilient, staff retention remains high, and the company continues to be recognized regionally and nationally as a top employer as we continue to execute on our corporate objectives. I am both proud of the company's accomplishments and very confident in our future.
Frank DOrazio: Okay, I'd like to thank you all for your time today and for the questions we received this morning. We'll speak to you again in a few months. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.