Q3 2024 Sera Prognostics Inc Earnings Call
Can only mode.
We will be facilitating a question and answer session towards the end of today's call.
As a reminder, the call is being recorded for replay purposes.
Speaker Change: I would now like to turn the call over to Peter Denardo of cap Com partners for a few introductory comments.
Peter Denardo: Thank you operator, good afternoon, everyone welcome to tariff diagnostics third quarter fiscal year 2024 earnings conference call at the close of the market today, Sara Prognostics released its financial results for the quarter ended September 32024.
Speaker Change: Presenting for the company today will be genuine Linde Gardner, president and CEO and often <unk> our CFO during the call. We will review the financial results. We released today after which we will host a question and answer session. If you've not had a chance to review our quarterly earnings release. It can be found on our website through our prognostics dot com.
This call can be heard live via webcast at fair Prognostics Dot com and a recording will be archived in the investors section of our website.
Note that some of the information presented today may contain projections or other forward looking statements about events and circumstances that have not yet occurred including plans and projections for our business future financial results and market trends and opportunities.
Speaker Change: These statements are based on management's current expectations and the actual events or results may differ materially and adversely from these expectations for a variety of reasons. We refer you to the documents the company files from time to time with the Securities and Exchange Commission specifically the company's annual report on Form 10-K its quarterly.
Speaker Change: Ports on Form 10-Q, and its current reports on form 8-K. These documents identify important risk factors that could cause the actual results to differ materially from those contained in our projections and other forward looking statements.
Speaker Change: As a reminder, a webcast replay of this call will be available on the investors section of our website I will now turn the call over to Kenya, There are prognostics, President and CEO Junior.
Speaker Change: Thank you so much Peter and good afternoon, everyone. We're solidly executing our plan for the year to support increases in test adoption and revenue. This plan, which we have communicated previously focuses on publication of our clinical trial results building awareness of preterm birth screening risks and <unk> solutions.
Speaker Change: Increasing payer coverage.
Speaker Change: Making it easier to access our test.
Speaker Change: Putting scalability in place to harness that growth.
Speaker Change: Once established these prerequisite are expected to be the engine of our growth fueled by the critical need we can and will fulfill in improving maternal health care outcomes for mothers and babies. Following the publication of our positive efforts preterm trial results on the front cover of the July issue of the international peer reviewed journals.
Speaker Change: Gnostics, we are equally pursuing publication of prime results as.
Speaker Change: As we discussed last quarter, we're now seeking publication of these results and the key pregnancy in maternal health conferences in the spring and a manuscript submission to a high quality peer reviewed journal.
Speaker Change: Neibert publication solidly demonstrated that the health risks of babies can be improved in asymptomatic pregnant mothers without typical risk factors.
We believe publication of the final clinical study results could prove even more compelling and supporting the benefits of our pre term test coupled with a test and treat program.
Speaker Change: We locked our database a few weeks ago and are actively working towards publication in abstract submission. We will update you as more news becomes available in on our progress.
Speaker Change: While we await this further evidence to become available and we've made progress towards other prerequisites that are required to grow our business commercially.
Speaker Change: Before I lay out updates to our commercialization progress I'd like to take a moment to detail how significant the health care problem is that we are addressing and how it represents a huge opportunity for Sarah to effect positive change one in 10 babies is born prematurely in the United States and that is increasing in fact.
Speaker Change: CDC study found the right to have risen 12% between 2014 and 2022 however.
Speaker Change: However, most Americans about 71% are unaware of that the rates of infant mortality are higher in the U S than in other developed countries.
Furthermore, 60% don't know that the U S has the highest rate of maternal mortality among such developed countries and about one in four Americans incorrectly believe it does not.
Speaker Change: This shows the extent of the clinical problem and lack of awareness among consumers.
Speaker Change: And we can do better certainly for one of the most innovative and advanced countries in the world.
Speaker Change: Toward that end, we can truly make a difference through education awareness and <unk> unique technology to solve this growing problem.
Speaker Change: We have doubled down on engaging all of our key stakeholders for example, with unlisted expert consulting advice on the best strategies and tactics to reach Payors throughput bearing strong evidence in our ongoing dialogue with payers.
As I mentioned on our last call. We have initiated and are continuing education programs with the leading platform for U S medical professionals with more than 80% of the United States doctors and 50% of nurse practitioners and physician assistance as members.
Speaker Change: The first campaign had great engagement across a series of three targeted E. Mails. The first email had an open rate of 9% the second 48% in the third and final 70%. If you know anything about E Mail marketing. These were stellar results and show that our message is resonating and was effective.
Speaker Change: Armed with the avert publication, we began our second campaign on this platform around mid October and after just a few days the data indicated that 9% of our targeted contact we're deeply engaged we believe these types of campaigns will be a key component of physician demand generation going forward.
Speaker Change: Beyond reaching out to physicians to create broad awareness, including among consumers. We also have now activated our TV campaign with programs viewpoint with Dennis Quaid and empowered with Meg Ryan.
Speaker Change: These programs are expected to be distributed to public television stations in all 50 states and in over 84 million homes.
Speaker Change: Emmis NBC CNBC CNN or similar networks broadly supporting <unk> goal of informing the public about our preterm test and how it can drive improved pregnancy outcomes.
Adding to this we have been executing social media and email campaigns to broaden our product visibility to build adoption across our defined sales channels.
Speaker Change: Effective October one we made the preterm test available for order from our website for home delivery of the collection kit were expectant mothers can use our new ambient whole blood collection kit and May look to Sarah's lab.
Speaker Change: Following the confirmation of the order by a physician patients will receive the results to be discussed with their health care provider.
Speaker Change: Time magazine highlighted this broadened access to the preterm test we made available through the SEC website in October and we're pleased with that exposure and this broadly distributed publication.
Speaker Change: Complementing this is of course, our awareness campaign to encourage consumers to ask their physician about the test or to seek it out on their own via our website patient portal. We've already received a lot of interest following making preterm available for ordering online.
Speaker Change: In comparison to last year and September our preterm Dot com site saw at two.
Speaker Change: 227% traffic increase we're excited by the channel opportunity presents and we have implemented patient access programs that we believe will enable more mothers to get the test.
Speaker Change: Beyond these implemented programs in the <unk>.
Speaker Change: Commercial front, while exercising great care in where we're spending money on staff and tactical growth activities, we have selectively strengthened our capabilities in revenue cycle sales and marketing market access regulatory.
Speaker Change: <unk> members.
Speaker Change: This is the result of bringing on a few key hires and consultants focused on enabling future growth.
Speaker Change: Furthering our strategy to build relationship with women, who are pregnant or planning to become pregnant with shared with you before our plans to launch an education tool, which leverages predictive analytics to inform expectant mothers about risk factors of preterm birth I am pleased to note that this tool is now in beta testing it as a website where.
Speaker Change: Women can explore informative reports based on the data from millions of pregnancy experiences and glean personalized insights into pregnancies like there's.
Speaker Change: This will not only educate them unlikelihood of outcomes based on different pregnancy characteristics, but also establish awareness of <unk> product offerings and <unk> solutions can play in leading positive change in addressing birth health risks.
Speaker Change: We believe these predictive analytics tools could have a standalone value of the product, but also maybe a powerful digital front door to our biomarker testing products we.
Speaker Change: We will continue to develop our time to both product and with multiple offerings for pregnant moms. This portfolio will allow us to generate multiple journeys to Sarah solutions for pregnant moms.
Speaker Change: Let me now take a moment to discuss care guidelines, which are an essential part of delivering the benefits of preterm to identify mothers or to risk and addressing riskier pregnancies through better informed cure the development. The guidelines takes time for example in the case of American College of obstetrics and gynecology or <unk>.
Speaker Change: Their development of clinical practice guidelines is a process. It typically spans 24 to 36 months from initial topic selection to final publication.
Speaker Change: So we've spent considerable time reviewing <unk> guideline changes to prepare for meetings with stakeholders and policymakers next year.
Speaker Change: This has been well informed by consultants and experts and we are convening the right groups and focusing on what matters. The most the quality of our evidence.
Speaker Change: And data.
Speaker Change: When prime results are published paired with the awareness campaigns, we've already launched and more in the pipeline. We believe we will be fully ready to further engage with the medical community and helping set the guidelines and standards of care and necessary to support healthier babies among those at risk.
Speaker Change: Hand in hand, with making progress towards care guidelines is making sure that we continue to have solid quality and rigor in our testing and lab processing from a regulatory standpoint as.
Speaker Change: As many of you know the FDA published its final rule on laboratory developed test in late April.
Speaker Change: This rule has already seen some legal challenges by various parties.
Speaker Change: While the outcome of this may not be known until at least the first quarter of next year, we have been taking steps to ensure preterm remains compliant as a result, we have expanded cerus expertise to prepare for engagement with regulatory authorities and are confident in our prior quality controls and reliability of test.
Speaker Change: Outcomes.
Speaker Change: In summary to date. This has been a very busy year for Sarah with successful execution of our stated goals thus far.
Speaker Change: To back our growth plans there is more to be done.
Speaker Change: But we're pleased with our progress in fortifying our commercial organization to.
Speaker Change: To ramp revenue win all necessary prerequisite for growth are aligned and we are ready to expand sales and shareholder value now.
Speaker Change: Now I'll turn the call over to Austin for a finance update.
Austin: Thanks, Dan and good afternoon, everyone. Let me review our financial results for the quarter Afterward, I'll briefly touch on our view of managing operating expenses, while investing where we need to such that once our prerequisite as have been achieved we can began accelerating towards revenue growth.
Speaker Change: Net revenue for the third quarter of 2024, it was $29000 compared to $42000 for the same period a year ago.
Speaker Change: Our plan for the year has called for making very careful cost effective and select investments that we believe will drive commercial sales through a higher magnitude in future quarters and this quarterly revenue level reflects that plan accordingly.
Speaker Change: With that in mind total operating expenses for the third quarter of $8 $9 million were up 8% from $8 2 million for the same period a year ago.
Speaker Change: Net loss for the quarter was up 10% to $7 9 million compared to $7 2 million for the third quarter of 2023.
Speaker Change: About two thirds of the increased operating costs and net loss year over year was due to an increase in noncash stock compensation expense due to our higher stock price.
Speaker Change: Adjusting for this our cost and net loss were relatively flat year over year with only a modest 3% increase.
To back our growth plans. There is more to be done.
But we're pleased with our progress in fortifying our commercial organization to ramp revenue when all this trip prerequisites for growth are aligned and we are ready to expand sales and shareholder value. Now I'll turn the call over to Austin for a finance update.
Speaker Change: Research and development expenses were $3 5 million and approximately flat with the third quarter of 2023.
Speaker Change: Selling general and administrative expenses for the third quarter were $5 4 million and up from $4 6 million for the same period, a year ago due primarily to our selected investment in anticipated growth drivers costs associated with filing a shelf registration and increased stock compensation expense.
Austin: Thanks, Daniel. Good afternoon, everyone. Let me review our financial results for the quarter. Afterward, I'll briefly touch on our view of managing operating expenses while investing where we need to, such that once our prerequisites have been achieved, we can begin accelerating towards revenue growth.
Speaker Change: As of September 32024, the company had cash cash equivalents and available for sale securities of approximately $74 3 million.
Speaker Change: In 2020 for a gross cash expense is expected to be less than $30 million.
Austin: Net revenue for the third quarter of 2024 was $29,000 compared to $42,000 for the same period a year ago.
Speaker Change: With many of our expenses focused on evidence generation building foundations for scalability and awareness, making select investments in market broadening opportunities enhancing some of our commercial capabilities and product development.
Austin: Our plan for the year has called for making very careful, cost-effective and select investments that we believe will drive commercial sales to a higher magnitude in future quarters and this quarterly revenue level reflects that plan accordingly.
Speaker Change: As we begin planning for the year ahead, we are targeting gross cash expenses to remain under that threshold, while we began allocating more towards commercial activity than in 2024.
Austin: With that in mind, total operating expenses for the third quarter of $8.9 million, we're up 8% from $8.2 million for the same period a year ago.
Speaker Change: Therefore, with the projected year end cash balance of approximately $68 million. We believe we have cash into 2027 before assuming any future revenues.
Austin: Net loss for the quarter was up 10% to 7.9 million compared to 7.2 million for the third quarter of 2023. About 2-3rds of the increased operating costs and net loss year over year was due to an increase in non-cash stock compensation expense due to our higher stock price.
Speaker Change: Operator, we can now open the call for questions.
Speaker Change: Thank you ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session should you have a question. Please press the star followed by the one on your Touchtone phone.
Austin: A justing for this, our costs and net loss were relatively flat year over year, with only a modest 3% increase.
Speaker Change: You will hear a prompt to indicate that your hand has been raised should you wish to decline from the polling process. Please press the star followed by the two.
Austin: Research and Development Expenses were $3.5 million and approximately flat with the third quarter of 2023.
Speaker Change: If you are using a speaker phone please lift the handset before pressing any keys.
Austin: selling general administrative expenses from the third quarter or $5.4 million and up from $4.6 million from the same period of year ago to do primarily to our selected investment in anticipated growth drivers, cost associated with filing our shelf registration and increased stock compensation expense.
Speaker Change: One moment. Please for your first question.
Speaker Change: Andrew Brachman from William Blair. Please go ahead.
Andrew Brachman: Great. Good afternoon, thanks for taking the questions Hi, Jenny Hi, Austin.
Andrew Brachman: Maybe on your comment related to just sort of the timing precedent here for guidelines first could you maybe just clarify your timeline expectations here for preterm and I guess, secondly, I know I know.
Austin: As of September 30, 2024, the company had cash cash equivalents and available for sell securities of approximately $74.3 million.
Austin: In 2024, a growth cash expense is expected to be less than $30 million, with many of our expenses focused on evidence generation, building foundations for scalability and awareness, making select investments in marketing, broadening opportunities, enhancing some of our commercial capabilities and product development.
Andrew Brachman: Not in your control with respect to these guideline bodies actually moving it through their own processes, but can you maybe sort of talk about the levers that are in your control and how you're ensuring to make that process goes smoothly and hopefully quickly.
Speaker Change: Definitely thank you so much for your question Andrew Good to hear you.
Austin: As we begin planning for the year ahead, we are targeting gross cash expenses to remain under that threshold, while we begin allocating more towards commercial activity than in 2024.
Andrew Brachman: R E call frequently looks at other.
Andrew Brachman: Guideline bodies for example in this case, our society for maternal and fetal medicine MSM two.
Austin: Therefore, with the projected year in cash balance of approximately $68 million, we believe we have cash in the 2027 before sending any future revenues.
Andrew Brachman: To inform their position.
Austin: Operator, we can now open the call for questions.
Andrew Brachman: And there is an existing <unk> Kong bulletin with guidelines, so they will not be.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Should you have a question? Please press the star, followed by the one on your touch tone phone.
Andrew Brachman: <unk>.
Andrew Brachman: Developing it from white space de Novo.
Andrew Brachman: It would be a consideration for an update which frequently starts with a commentary letter on a publication.
Austin: You will hear a prompt to indicate that your hand has been raised. Should you wish to decline from the polling process, please press the star, followed by the two.
Andrew Brachman: That would be the first.
Austin: If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys.
Andrew Brachman: Meaningful milestone to look out for.
Austin: One moment please for your first question.
Andrew Brachman: Society for maternal fetal medicine typically comp.
Speaker Change: Andrew Brackman from William Blair, please go ahead.
Andrew Brachman: Comments on 2030 publications a year.
Andrew Brackman: Great, good afternoon, thanks for taking the question for Igenia High-Often. Maybe on your comment.
Andrew Brachman:
Andrew Brachman: We are excited about prime results and we of course will be eagerly awaiting to see the reaction of the society to our results as the first green shoot.
Speaker Change: Press it in here for guide lines.
Austin: First, could you maybe just clarify your timeline expectations here for pre-term? And I guess secondly, I know a lot's not in your control with respect to these guys on bodies actually moving it through their own processes but can you maybe sort of talk about the levers that are in your control and how you're ensuring to make that process go smoothly and then hopefully quickly?
Andrew Brachman: The.
Andrew Brachman: Common next milestones would include practice advisory or a practice bulletin.
Andrew Brachman: Those usually come later as the.
Andrew Brachman: Questions from the community to the society.
Andrew Brachman: <unk>.
Andrew Brachman: On what is the position of the society on care guidelines of this innovation.
Speaker Change: Definitely, thank you so much for your question Andrew, good to hear you.
Speaker Change: We think again, we don't have a crystal ball. Unfortunately.
Speaker Change: A-cog frequently looks at other guideline bodies, for example, in this case, a Society for Maternal and Fetal Medicine, SMFM, to inform their position.
Speaker Change: But we think that that will come in.
Andrew Brachman: In time, but of course, it will start with the key milestone prime peer reviewed publication.
Andrew Brachman: Until that that event, we don't expect.
Speaker Change: and there is an existing A-Cog bulletin with guidelines, so they will not be developing it from white space DeNobo.
Andrew Brachman: Any significant signals from the societies.
Andrew Brachman: <unk> or <unk>.
Andrew Brachman: We should also consider and are developing strategies for other USPS Task Force for example, and.
Andrew Brachman: We will keep the community updated on our progress towards these.
Speaker Change: That would be the first meaningful milestone to look out for.
Andrew Brachman: Overall.
Andrew Brachman: The number one.
Speaker Change: Society for Maternal and Pedal Medicine, typically, comments on 20, 30 publications a year.
Speaker Change: Lever is the quality of our data Andrew to your question what can we control and that's why we invested so much in our pivotal <unk> study to make sure that the quality of that evidenced the quality of the analytical methods the input we got.
Speaker Change: We are excited about prime results and we of course will be eagerly waiting to see the reaction of the society to our results as the first green shoot.
Speaker Change: And the work of the Pis and.
Speaker Change: The common next milestones would include practice advisory or a practice bulletin.
Andrew Brachman: And that study will speak for itself.
Andrew Brachman: Two to the guideline setting body influencers.
Speaker Change: Those usually come later.
Andrew Brachman: Terrific and then.
Speaker Change: as the questions from the community to the society come up on what is the position of the Society on Care Guidelines of this innovation.
Speaker Change: I just want to go back to your comments sort of around your discussions are ongoing discussions with payers can you maybe just sort of talk to us about this at a high level I guess from your perspective, what gets them.
Speaker Change: We think, again, we don't have a crystal ball, unfortunately.
Andrew Brachman: Across the finish line here will it be prime results will it be something else that it seems to me that this is a test that sort of makes common sense for them to bring it under coverage Joe in your view, what sort of gets them to move there.
Speaker Change: But we think that that will come in time, but of course it will start with a key milestone, prime peer-reviewed publication.
Speaker Change: Until that event, we don't expect any significant signals from the societies, SMSM or ACOG.
Speaker Change: Absolutely program minimum is a quality peer reviewed publication, which prime will be and of course, coupled with avert.
Andrew Brachman: It will be really strong evidence base.
Andrew Brachman: Four.
Speaker Change: We should also consider and are developing strategies for other USPS task force, for example, and we'll keep the community updated on our progress towards these. Overall,
Andrew Brachman: For the potential of preterm test and treat program.
Andrew Brachman: Second of course is the economic modeling here, we're very fortunate to have a few tools to make available for payers number one of course is all events modeling of.
Speaker Change: The number one lever is the quality of our data, Andrew, to your question, what can we control? And that's why we invested so much in our Pivotal Prime study to make sure that the quality of that evidence, the quality of the analytical methods, the input we got.
Andrew Brachman: Their own population.
Andrew Brachman: That delivered results published results of $600 of savings per member tested on about 40000 members they've modeled.
Andrew Brachman: Our partners all advanced will also be modeling economic impact.
Speaker Change: and the work of the PIs in that study will speak for itself to the guidelines setting body influencers.
Andrew Brachman: On the Prime study subjects that were.
Andrew Brachman: <unk> members and that will be additional evidence of that.
Andrew Brachman: That will absolutely be considered by all the other payers reviewing the <unk>.
Andrew Brackman: Terrific. And then...
Andrew Brachman: Preterm test for coverage.
Speaker Change: I just want to go back to your comments sort of around your discussion or ongoing discussions with payers. Can you maybe just sort of talk to us about this at a high level? I guess from your perspective, what gets them across the finish line here? Will it be prime results? Will it be something else? It seems to me that, you know, this is a test that sort of makes common sense for them to bring under coverage, so in your view, what sort of gets them to move there? Thanks.
Andrew Brachman: We also put together a model will make available as we begin discussions with all of the payers, where they can put in their own cost of care and members characteristics. So that they can see what covering preterm test can do for their cost of care reductions and cost savings.
Andrew Brachman: <unk>.
Andrew Brachman: As well as the potential to improve care in some of their Medicaid plans.
Speaker Change: Absolutely. Program Minimum is a quality peer-reviewed publication which Prime will be and of course coupled with AVERT it will be really strong evidence base for the potential of preterm test and treat program.
Andrew Brachman: So those two key.
Andrew Brachman: <unk> will be absolutely essential and as you can imagine we're working very hard on our great peer reviewed publication of prime.
Andrew Brachman: And as I described we have a really strong economic evidence to put in front of payers with that.
Speaker Change: Second, of course, is the economic modeling.
Andrew Brackman: Here, we're very fortunate to have a few tools.
Andrew Brachman: Thank.
Andrew Brachman: There will be particular payers and we are happy to talk more about that next quarter that will jump on the opportunity for cost of care savings.
Andrew Brackman: to make available for payers. Number one, of course, is Elevance Modeling of their own population that delivered results, published results of $1,600 of savings per member tested on about 40,000 members they've modeled.
Andrew Brachman: Early others will follow it will be a process over many years, but we hope that that process will start robustly post prime publication.
Speaker Change: Terrific. Thanks for taking the questions.
Andrew Brackman: Our partners, Elevance, will also be modeling economic impact on the prime city subjects that were Elevance members.
Speaker Change: Thanks for the question Andrew.
Speaker Change: As a reminder, should you have a question. Please press the star followed by the one on your Touchtone phone, you'll hear a prompt to indicate that your hand has been raised should you wish to decline from the polling process. Please press the star followed by the two.
Andrew Brackman: and that will be additional evidence that will absolutely be considered by all the other payers reviewing the preterm test for coverage.
Andrew Brackman: We also...
Andrew Brackman: put together a model we'll make available as we begin discussions with all of the payers, where they can put in their own cost of care and members' characteristics.
Andrew Brackman: So that they can see what covering preterm tests can do for their cost of care reductions and cost savings, as well as the potential to improve care in some of their Medicaid plans.
Speaker Change: Again should you have a question please press the star.
Speaker Change: Followed by the one on your Touchtone phone.
Andrew Brackman: So those two
Andrew Brackman: key levers will be absolutely essential and, as you can imagine, we're working very hard on a great peer-reviewed publication of Prime and, as I described, we have a really strong economic evidence to put in front of payers.
Speaker Change: There are no further questions at this time I'd now like to turn the call over to Daniel Lim Guard for final closing comments.
Speaker Change: Thank you operator, thank you so much everyone for attending our call today, we look forward to the expected publication of our pivotal Prime clinical study results and continuing to propel our company towards commercial success, although we have plenty of work to do in the final weeks of 2024. This has been a great year for therapeutic optics and we think.
Andrew Brackman: with that
Andrew Brackman: I think there will be particular payers, and we are happy to talk more about that next quarter, that will jump on the opportunity for cost-of-care savings.
Andrew Brackman: early. Others will follow. It will be a process over many years, but we hope that that process will start robustly post-prime publication.
Speaker Change: Our shareholders for their support I'll now turn it back over to the operator to conclude the call operator.
Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today, we thank you for participating and ask that you. Please disconnect your lines.
Speaker Change: Terrific. Thanks for taking the questions.
Speaker Change: Thanks for the question, Andrew.
Speaker Change: As a reminder, should you have a question, please press the star followed by the 1 on your touchtone phone. You will hear a prompt to indicate that your hand has been raised. Should you wish to decline from the polling process, please press the star followed by the 2.
Speaker Change: [noise].
Speaker Change: Again, should you have a question, please press the star followed by the one on your touchtone phone.
Speaker Change: There are no further questions at this time. I'd now like to turn the call over to Zegna Lindgardt for final closing comments.
Zegna Lindgardt: Thank you, Operator. Thank you so much everyone for attending our call today. We look forward to the expected publication of our Pivotal Prime clinical study results and continuing to propel our company towards commercial success.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Zegna Lindgardt: Although we have plenty of work to do in the final weeks of 2024, this has been a great year for TheraPrognostics and we thank our shareholders for their support. I'll now turn it back over to the operator to conclude the call. Operator?
Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating and ask that you please disconnect your lines.