Q4 2024 General Dynamics Corp Earnings Call
Good morning and welcome to the General Dynamics fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings conference call.
All participants will be in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's remarks, we'll conduct a question-and-answer session. To ask a question at this time, you'll need to press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.
Speaker Change: Thank you, operator, and good morning everyone. Welcome to the General Dynamics fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings conference call. Any forward-looking statements made today represent our estimates regarding the company's outlook. These estimates are subject to some risks and uncertainties.
Speaker Change: Additional information regarding these factors is contained in the company's 10-K, 10-Q, and 8-K filings.
We will also refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures.
Speaker Change: On the call today are Phebe Novakovic, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Kim Kuryea, Chief Financial Officer. I will now turn the call over to Phebe.
Phebe: Thank you, Nicole. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for being with us.
Phebe: Earlier this morning, we reported fourth quarter earnings of $4.15 per diluted share on revenue of $13,338,000,000.
operating earnings of $1,423,000,000 and net earnings of $1,148,000,000.
Phebe: As you will see, this performance and the resultant performance for the year compare quite favorably to all relevant prior periods.
Phebe: To briefly summarize, on a quarter-over-year-ago quarter basis, revenue is up 14.3 percent, operating earnings are up 10.5 percent, net earnings are up 14.2 percent, and earnings for diluted share are up 14 percent.
Phebe: It is fair to say that the quarter-over-quarter results are quite strong.
Net earnings by 23.9% and fully diluted EPS by 23.4%.
The full year is also a common theme.
Phebe: Revenue is up 12.9 percent, operating earnings are up 13 percent, net earnings are up 14.1 percent, and fully diluted EPS is up 13.4 percent.
Phebe: Both revenue and operating earnings were up for each of the segments led by Aerospace with revenue growth of 30.5% and with operating earnings growth of 23.9%.
Phebe: While we beat consensus for the year by five cents, we did not beat our own expectations and prior guidance for reasons largely beyond our control.
This leads me to a discussion of the segments.
First Aerospace
Phebe: The real story in aerospace is found in the continuing growth of both revenue and earnings, the continuing strong demand for Gulfstream aircraft, the overall strength of Gulfstream service business, and the continuing growth and performance improvement at Jet Aviation.
Phebe: In the quarter, Aerospace had revenue of $3.7 billion and earnings of $585 million.
Phebe: This represents a stunning 36.4% increase in revenue and a 30.3% increase in earnings on a quarter-over-quarter basis.
Phebe: The sequential numbers are even stronger with a 51% increase in revenue coupled with a staggering 92% increase in operating earnings.
Phebe: The important point here is the dramatic increase in deliveries of in-service airplanes in the quarter, 47 versus 28 in the third quarter of 2024.
Phebe: For the year, aerospace revenue of $11.25 billion is up 30.5% greater than 2023.
Earnings of $1.5 billion or up 23.9% over 23.
Phebe: Revenue growth was driven by the delivery of 25 more aircraft than in 23.
Phebe: Earnings suffered a 70 basis point margin compression from the prior year largely driven by all the costs associated with getting the G700 certified in the early part of the year.
Phebe: and the unexpected costs incurred getting the G700s out the door. Nevertheless, aerospace revenue and earnings are less than we anticipated for both the quarter and the year because we did not deliver as many 700s as planned.
Phebe: We did, however, deliver 15 in the quarter and 30 for the year.
Phebe: You will recall that I told you that we expected to deliver 50 to 52 G700s this year, and that the deliveries would be more or less evenly divided over the last three quarters of the year.
Phebe: Well, we planned 15 for Q2 and delivered 11. We planned 15 to 16 for Q3 and delivered 4. In the fourth quarter, we believed that we could deliver 27, but delivered 15.
Phebe: So what happened that caused us to fall short of plan?
Phebe: Let me identify the most important and impactful reasons and then talk about the implications of all of this for 25.
First, aircraft engines arrive significantly late to schedule.
Phebe: We painted the aircraft before the engines arrived. This led to a significant amount of repaint that resulted in increased cost and time spent.
Phebe: But more importantly, we elected to induct these aircraft into our completion centers before installing engines. This represented a significant deviation from our process and proved to be detrimental to both cost and schedule.
Phebe: Normally, before a green aircraft is inducted into a completion center, we run the engines and test all the plane systems under power, which typically leads to additional actions to correct any issues that might arise.
Phebe: Once the aircraft begins its completion phase, these tests and follow-on corrections are substantially more cumbersome.
Phebe: So what seemed like a rational decision at the time turned out to be quite troublesome.
Phebe: The good news is that most of the time-consuming aspects of this issue are behind us.
Phebe: We are now largely receiving engines to schedule and quality escapes are more predictable and appropriate fixes well known.
Phebe: Second, many of the aircraft planned for delivery in the quarter had highly customized interiors, first of type intricacies.
Phebe: These intricacies are considered to be major changes for regulatory purposes.
Phebe: This resulted in longer-than-anticipated efforts to finalize and achieve supplemental-type certificates.
This problem is largely behind us.
Phebe: Third, and maybe most important, late in the third quarter, a supplier quality escape on a specific component caused the replacement of several components on each planned aircraft delivery.
Phebe: The supplier was fully cooperative and is providing replacement components for all of our needs, but this rework has increased the number of test flights necessary to obtain the final Certificate of Airworthiness for each aircraft.
Phebe: So the removal and replacement of these components has impacted labor costs and schedule adversely.
Phebe: While it had a significant impact in both the third and fourth quarters we have largely worked our way through this problem with the cooperation of the vendor. Finally, many of the early deliveries were to buyers located in foreign countries where we were making first-time deliveries.
Phebe: While they recognize the FAA certification, they have a separate and sometimes extended inquiry before issuing registration. This is, in many respects, also behind us.
Phebe: The supply chain is now performing much better to schedule, and even though we continue to be surprised by some quality escapes, the time it takes to identify and fix these faults has significantly improved.
Phebe: Turning to market demand, we had a one-to-one book the bill in the quarter and for the year even as aircraft deliveries increased.
Phebe: orders were largely consistent with our internal plan. The delivery of the G700 and its performance in customer hands is driving increased demand for it, which we experienced in the quarter.
Phebe: After some slowing in the U.S. during the second and third quarters, we continue to see improved interest across all models in both the U.S. and Europe.
Phebe: Middle East activity is quite strong and current activity in Southeast Asia and China has also improved.
Phebe: Interestingly, the overall number of prospects in all areas continues to increase.
So let's move on to the defense businesses.
Phebe: Combat systems had revenue of $2.4 billion for the quarter, moderately more than a year ago quarter. Earnings of $356 million are also up modestly on a 10 basis point operating margin improvement.
Operating margin of 14.9% is quite wholesome.
Phebe: The sequential growth in revenue and earnings at 8.3% and 9.5% respectively is stronger, particularly with strength at OTS.
Phebe: For the full year, revenue of $9 billion is up 8.8% and earnings of $1.3 billion are up 11.2%, resulting in a 30 basis point increase in operating margins as compared to a year ago. All in all, very nice growth profile.
Phebe: Combat saw robust order intake over the course of the year resulting in a book-to-bill of 1.3 to 1.
Phebe: Orders came from across the portfolio with notable awards in munitions and international vehicle programs.
Phebe: New capacity to meet demand for artillery is coming online in our munitions business, which will drive additional munitions growth.
Phebe: Demand remains strong in the U.S. and from our allies, particularly in the combat vehicle tract and wheeled business.
Phebe: This, coupled with Combat's strong overall backlog of nearly $17 billion, positions the group well for continued strong performance.
Phebe: In short, this group had a very solid year with strong revenue growth, expanded margins, durable order activity, and a strong order pipeline as we go forward.
Turning to marine systems.
Once again, our shipbuilding group had strong revenue growth.
Phebe: Marine revenue of $4 billion is up 16.2% against the year-ago quarter. Columbia-class and Virginia-class construction and TAO volume drove the growth.
Phebe: DDG 51 revenue also increased measurably. In short, impressive growth by any standard.
Phebe: Operating earnings of $200 million are down 7.8% in the quarter with a $130 basis point decrease in operating margins.
Phebe: Margins continue to be adversely impacted by additional delays and quality issues from the submarine supply chain.
Phebe: Sequentially, revenue increased 10% while earnings were down 22.5% for the reasons I've just mentioned.
Phebe: For the full year, marine revenue of $14.3 billion is up 15.1%, and earnings of $935 million are up 7%.
certainly a better result than fourth quarter taken alone.
Thank you.
Phebe: So, across the business, we have seen rapid growth of revenue and more modest growth in earnings.
Phebe: As I told you last quarter, although the submarine supply chain is improving in places, out-of-sequence work continues to increase our costs.
Phebe: In addition, we have seen increased quality problems from the supply chain that have further disrupted our build plan and driven increased costs for quality control and inspection at EB.
Phebe: That said, we continue to drive productivity improvements and are redoubling our cost cutting by reducing overhead and increasing our planning efficiency.
Phebe: In addition, the Congress recently passed a continuing resolution that included nearly $9 billion for Columbia-class construction and $5.7 billion for Virginia-class programs.
Phebe: While the Columbia portion of the CR is primarily to maintain the funding plan impacted by the delay in the 2025 budget, the Virginia class funds provide the following.
Phebe: They allow the Navy to cover fact-of-life cost increases on the two FY23 boats and one F-25 boat.
Phebe: They also provide funds for additional workforce development and allow us to target funding at specific productivity areas that we are working at with our customer.
Phebe: We are working with our customer to get this under contract as soon as possible.
Phebe: In addition, the Navy is continuing to push funding into the industrial base to help improve their output timing and quality. This effort over time will help.
Phebe: All of this tells us that we should see some improvement in the supply chain, slowly but surely. Until then, we continue to control what we can control by increasing our own productivity and cutting costs.
And lastly, technologies.
Phebe: It was another strong quarter with revenue of $3.24 billion, up 2.8% over the prior year. Operating earnings in the quarter are $319 million, up 4.6% on a margin of 9.8%.
Phebe: a 10 basis point improvement over the fourth quarter a year ago.
Phebe: The full year comparisons are similar. Revenue at $13.1 billion is up 1.6%. Earnings of $1.26 billion are up 4.8% on a 30 basis point improvement in operating margin.
Phebe: Both businesses finished a really good year with a strong fourth quarter. In particular, GDIT delivered their fourth consecutive year of revenue and earnings growth, resulting in their highest ever revenue and earnings and their strongest operating margin over this period.
Phebe: Mission Systems had a good year as well. Their focus has been on margin expansion as they transition from sun setting legacy programs to new program wins.
Phebe: So while their revenue was down about 2% year over year, earnings were up 5.5% on a 90 basis point improvement in margins.
Phebe: We expect 2025 to be the final year of the program transition admission systems, with growth on both the top line and bottom line thereafter.
Phebe: Turning to orders, the group had very nice order activity for the year. Total orders for the group reached a record level of $14.7 billion, resulting in a bill of $1.1 for the year. Similarly, the total awards, including options and IDIQ value, were $21.8 billion.
Phebe: That led to an 18% increase in total potential contract value to $48.1 billion, which positions them nicely to continue on their growth trajectory.
Phebe: The group's win rates remain very strong in the low 80% range for the year and their capture rate remains in the mid 60% range, both very strong for this industry.
Phebe: GDIT's digital accelerator investments are yielding very good results, driving almost $7.5 billion in award value in 2024 alone, and a total of $10 billion in awards since they launched the program two years ago.
Phebe: Likewise, Mission Systems secured a number of marquee wins last year as a result of their investments in innovative technology including space ground systems, strategic recapitalization programs, and Canadian land C4ISR systems.
All in all, a strong year for the Technologies Group.
This concludes my comments about the defense businesses.
Phebe: Let me ask him to provide detail on our cash performance for the quarter in the year, overall order activity and backlog, share repurchase activity, and other items. I will then come back to discuss our thoughts on 2025.
Phebe: Combat systems and technologies led the way with book-to-bills of 1.3 times and 1.1 times, respectively.
Phebe: We finished 2024 with total backlog of $90.6 billion, the seventh consecutive quarter that backlog remained above $90 billion, demonstrating its durability during a period of robust growth.
Phebe: Total estimated contract value, which includes options and IDIQ contracts, ended the year at another record level of $144 billion, a 9% increase from last year.
Phebe: This increase was driven by our technology segment as it continued to capture major opportunities, including record awards at GDIT.
Turning now to our cash performance.
Phebe: As expected, the fourth quarter was a strong cash quarter with operating cash flow of $2.2 billion, which brings us to $4.1 billion of operating cash flow for the year.
Phebe: In the quarter, combat systems had particularly strong cash generation, while aerospace and technologies had solid quarters as well.
Thank you for joining us.
Phebe: We have said repeatedly that we strive for cash conversion at or around 100%. For 2024, our free cash flow was $3.2 billion, a cash conversion rate of 85%.
Phebe: We call that 2023's free cash flow was 115% and that the 2022 through 2024 average was 100%.
Phebe: We experienced working capital growth and inventories at Gulfstream due to delayed deliveries and as production continued to ramp up.
Phebe: Another reason for working capital growth is that two of our fastest growing defense businesses, EB and OTS, had customer-funded material purchases on undefinitized contracts.
Phebe: The cash associated with the unbilled profit is not collected until the contract is definitized.
Phebe: We expect Working Capital will continue to build in 2025 and unwind in 2026, although it could be earlier.
Phebe: Looking next to capital deployment, capital expenditures in the fourth quarter were $355 million, which adds up to $916 million for the full year. At 1.9% of sales, full-year capital expenditures were in line with our expectations.
Phebe: We paid $389 million in dividends in the fourth quarter, bringing the full year to $1.5 billion.
Phebe: We also repurchased 4.8 million shares of our stock in the quarter for $1.3 billion.
Phebe: So we finish the year with 5.4 million shares repurchased for $1.5 billion at an average price of $277 per share.
Phebe: In total for the year, it is important to note that approximately 95% of our free cash flow was returned to shareholders in the form of dividends and share repurchases.
Phebe: We repaid $500 million of maturing notes in the fourth quarter and ended the year with a cash balance of $1.7 billion.
Phebe: That brings us to a net debt position of $7.1 billion, down approximately $300 million from last year.
We also contributed $73 million to our pension plans.
Phebe: Our net interest expense in the fourth quarter was $76 million, bringing interest expense for the full year to $324 million. That compares to $78 million and $343 million in the respective 2023 periods.
Phebe: Turning to 2025, while 100% of on average cash conversion has been our goal, we may come in lighter, between 80 and 85% for several reasons.
Phebe: While we expect CapEx and interest expense to be relatively flat, we have a 27th pay period at a couple of our businesses which requires an additional $175 million this year. And as I noted earlier, working capital will continue to build at least through part of the year.
Phebe: As far as capital deployment goes, we will continue to fund the dividend and buy shares when appropriate.
Phebe: We also have $1.5 billion of debt maturing in the second quarter, the disposition of which we will address then. Finally, our cash taxes and pension contributions are expected to increase.
Phebe: Turning now to income taxes. Our 2024 full-year rate ended up at 16.7 percent. Looking ahead to 2025, we expect the full-year effective tax rate to increase to around 17.5 percent.
Phebe: Phebe, that concludes my remarks. I'll turn it back over to you. Thank you, Kim. So let me provide our operating forecast for 2025 with some color around our outlook for each business group, and then the company-wide rollout.
Phebe Novakovic: In 2025, we expect aerospace revenue around $12,650,000, up around $1.4 billion over 2024. Operating margin is expected to be up 70 basis points to 13.7%.
Phebe Novakovic: This should result in an 18.5% increase in earnings, up between $270 to $275 million.
Phebe Novakovic: Gulfstream deliveries will be 150, materially over the 136 delivered in 2024.
Phebe Novakovic: As I just noted, we anticipate a 13.7% operating margin for the year, quite a bit stronger in the first quarter, but weaker in the second and third quarters, followed by a strong fourth quarter.
Phebe Novakovic: Given the delivery challenges we have had with the G700s in 2024, we have taken a less aggressive planning posture in 2025.
Phebe Novakovic: In combat systems, we expect revenue to be up slightly to about $9.1 billion, coupled with a 30-basis point improvement and operating margin of 14.5%. This should lead to improved earnings 3.5% to 4% better than in 2024.
Phebe Novakovic: As I noted earlier, the Marine Group has been on a remarkable growth journey. It will continue in 2025, albeit at a slightly lower rate.
Phebe Novakovic: Our outlook for this year anticipates revenue of around $15 billion, with operating margin improvement to 6.8%, which should result in a 10% or better improvement in earnings in 2025.
Phebe Novakovic: In technologies, 2025 revenue is expected to be $13.5 billion. Within the group, GDIT will be up low single digits and mission systems will be slightly down, less than half a percent.
Phebe Novakovic: Operating margins are expected to decrease about 40 basis points, about 9.2 percent.
Phebe Novakovic: We continue to see long-term single-digit growth from the group and continued industry-leading margins.
Phebe Novakovic: All of this rolls up to an EPS forecast around $14.80 with a reasonable range of $14.75 to $14.85.
Phebe Novakovic: None of this contemplates or includes the use of capital for share repurchases.
Phebe Novakovic: On a quarter basis, if one were to assume an average of $3.70 per quarter, the first quarter would be off $0.20, the second quarter off $0.40, the third quarter right on the number, and the fourth up $0.60.
Phebe Novakovic: To wrap up, as we go into 2025, we feel very good about our business and the prospects for the year. We also have some very good opportunities across the business to improve operating margins and experience some additional growth.
Phebe Novakovic: Simply, we need to execute and we will be laser focused on operations.
Nicole, back to you.
Nicole: Thanks, Phebe. As a reminder, we ask participants to ask one question and one follow-up so that everyone has a chance to participate. Operator, could you please remind participants how to enter the queue?
Speaker Change: Certainly. As a reminder to ask a question please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. As stated in the interest of time we ask that you please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Thank you. Our first question comes from Ronald Epstein from Bank of America. Please go ahead your line is open.
Thank you.
Ronald Epstein: Hey, can you hear me okay? Yeah, perfect. Yeah, good morning. Good morning. So, yeah, just maybe following up on the G700 stuff. I would imagine I'd get a bunch of questions on this.
Ronald Epstein: Do you get any compensation from the suppliers on the delay? Because I would imagine it frustrated some customers.
Ronald Epstein: Some of, we have worked out with our supplier some consideration and, but not.
anything that I think is too material.
Ronald Epstein: But let's talk about the 800. So we expect the 800 certification sometime in the first half.
Ronald Epstein: And we think we have worked our way through the most significant problems that we experienced on the 700. Remember the commonality of parts is almost identical between the 800 and the 700.
Ronald Epstein: So we think the learning that we achieved on the 700 will be very advantageous on the 800.
Ronald Epstein: For 2025, we're thinking about a combination of G650s and 800s that's about equal to, give or take a few airplanes, the number of G650s we delivered.
Ronald Epstein: So we think a lot of the challenges are behind us.
Speaker Change: Got it, got it, and if I can, just one quick follow-on.
Speaker Change: Yesterday there was a lot of turbulence in terms of army contracts. I mean, those contracts were turned off, they were turned back on at the end of the day.
Speaker Change: How do you think about running your business in an environment where it's kind of this volatile?
Speaker Change: Well, I think it's a good lesson not to react to rumors, to react to implemented reality when it happens.
Speaker Change: So, there's a lot swirling and we have to see how all of that plays out and manifests itself in defense actions and defense programs.
But I think that was a good...
teaching example for those outside the
You know, the typical kind of Washington for all.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Doug Harned from Bernstein. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Good morning. Thank you. Good morning. You know, on combat...
Speaker Change: It's been, you know, the demand has been very strong and particularly on the munitions side. Can you comment a little bit about how you're seeing the trajectory ahead on vehicles, both U.S. and international?
Speaker Change: So our vehicle demand continues pretty strongly both internationally and within the U.S. We're executing on new programs, we're continuing to execute on our existing programs. That's true for both wheeled and track vehicles internationally and again in the U.S. And FMS continues.
Speaker Change: used to be a fairly significant driver of demand, again, both on the wheeled and the tracked combat vehicle side.
Speaker Change: So, I will note that the Stryker program in 25 was underfunded and we'll work with the customer and Hill to get a more rational funding profile.
But all in all, pretty drunk, man.
Go ahead.
Speaker Change: And then on Marine, you talked about additional funding, certainly for Columbia class. There's been money coming in for infrastructure. But when trying to resolve the issues there that you face around supply chain, inflation costs,
You know, when the Navy provides more money,
Speaker Change: Does the responsibility then go to you to resolve a very complex infrastructure problem, or are there things that the Navy should be doing more to address both the, I would say, both the inflation issues and the whole broad supply chain?
Speaker Change: So let's first get a predicate correct that our infrastructure is not the issue.
Speaker Change: We have a very robust, mature, and advanced infrastructure. The issue has been within the industrial supply chain.
Speaker Change: And as you quite rightly note, inflation has been a major determinant of some of these fact of life changes that impacted the entirety of the industrial base and driven price increases.
Speaker Change: We also had demographic changes. We had a generation of workers retired greater numbers and sooner than we had anticipated being replaced by a demographic age cohort that is a little less.
Speaker Change: significantly less in terms of numbers. That said, we've worked through that. About a decade ago we started training programs within the Marine Group.
Speaker Change: 12 years ago, and those programs are increasingly mature, and we've been able to get the workers that we've needed. So the Navy and the Congress have been quite proactive in getting funding out to the industrial base to help stabilize, and in fact, we've seen some improvement in some areas.
Speaker Change: and Missile Tubes and Castings. You've seen a nice improvement in their ability to deliver on time and quality products.
Speaker Change: That still needs to permeate the entirety of the industrial base, where we continue to see delays and quality escapes, all of which cost and drive cost at GD. So I think the Navy has done quite a bit in addressing that.
Speaker Change: the industrial-based challenges. The CR funding helps address the cost challenges on the FY24 boats and it funds the FY25 boat as well as some selected productivity improvements.
Speaker Change: So that's a help, there still remains a hole in the budget driven by the fact of life changes that was not addressed and needs to be addressed going forward.
So I hope that helps you.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Gautam Khanna from TD Cowan. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Yes, good morning. Thank you. Good morning.
Speaker Change: I was wondering if you could talk about the mechanics of how the SAAS funding actually gets to General Dynamics.
Tazad.
Speaker Change: You know, I'm just like is it applied to the the boats that are under negotiation now Well, let's let's back up a minute. Hold on a sec. I don't mean to interrupt you but but
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker Change: and what you refer to was one of those under consideration by the previous administration.
Speaker Change: not in effect. What you see now are two things. One, the CR funding that as I noted in my remarks
Speaker Change: addresses the Virginia class and Columbia, and then you have industrial based funding that's been going on for some time that goes right into the industrial base.
So those are two different elements. Does that help?
Speaker Change: It does, and on the latter, I'm curious, how does that actually...
flow to general dynamics? What is the mechanism?
Speaker Change: Well, the industrial-based funding goes into the industrial base, not into GED other than we may execute contracts with respect to that for the Navy.
Speaker Change: So there's a distinction between the shipyard and the industrial base, if that helps.
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Scott Duschel from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Hey, good morning.
Scott Duschel: Good morning. Phebe, I assume the margins on lot 1 and 2 for G700 were quite a bit lower than what you had originally expected, given everything you talked about. Yes, I mean, we've been pretty clear about that. Right. And so in that context, I was wondering if you could perhaps update us on the margin step-ups for lots 3 and 4, and whether it's still the 600 basis points that you talked about a few quarters ago.
Thank you. Yes, it is.
and there's room for improvement beyond lot three.
Scott Duschel: Okay, thank you. And then can you go into a bit more detail on what drove the margin strength at Aerospace Disorder, particularly given the challenges you outlined in your prepared remarks?
Scott Duschel: of Service and Timing on Service, Special Missions, how much gasoline we pump. This is a very large group, so there's lots of margins.
Scott Duschel: margin issue or margin factors and drivers in any given quarter.
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Sheila Kayalu from Jeffreys. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Sheila Kayalu: Good morning, Phebe. Thank you for your time. Maybe a big picture question, just given the new administration, and we touched upon it a little bit, but all your segments hit on it with Marine and DOJ within technology and even tariffs within aerospace. I was wondering if you could just maybe touch upon each of it and how you think about the trajectory and any changes in profitability in your franchises.
Sheila Kayalu: So, I think with any change of administration, there is always new direction and we will address the change.
Sheila Kayalu: Ranges here at this time in the family that we have us. [inaudible]
Sheila Kayalu: in other instances, and that's to maintain our agility. And what does agility really mean? It means accurate...
Sheila Kayalu: and quick decision-making in the moment. With respect to the DOJ, I think any actions that improve the efficiency and cost structure of organizations is a good thing, and we would embrace that.
Sheila Kayalu: And I think as we think through the threat, as you all know, I've argued for a long time that defense spending is threat driven and the threat has
Sheila Kayalu: ensure that we're meeting their demand for goods and material and services in those areas where they think it's the greatest threat. I think that most of our programs are very well positioned.
Sheila Kayalu: for the modern fight, so we look forward to going forward and think we're in a pretty good position.
Sheila Kayalu: Maybe if I could just follow up on marine profitability, any sort of quantification you could provide on just the floor, just given the supply chain has consistently lagged, even though you've been up to par.
Sheila Kayalu: I think that we've seen, as I said, some stabilization. We need a ways to go. The money that the Navy has been pumping into the industrial base will help over time.
I think the CR will certainly help.
to in order to execute the program of record.
That's been pretty well documented by the Navy.
Sheila Kayalu: and then we will drive our costs and drive them up. And to the extent that we have reduced costs and improved productivity we will continue to do so. We have done a pretty good job there but not enough to offset the cost impacts.
Sheila Kayalu: We're going to continue to manage those costs and drive them down and improve our productivity as well. So all of that, again, will go help offset and cover some of the cost increases that we're going to have to deal with.
Sheila Kayalu: may yet occur. We've factored into our thinking known risks, but it's the unknown unknowns that, you know, are always out there.
Sheila Kayalu: And as I say, over time, we should see some real stabilization within the supply chain, but it's going to take a bit of time.
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Miles Walton from Wolf Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Thanks, good morning.
Speaker Change: are the same as what we talked about in the third quarter. So, just from a trajectory perspective.
Speaker Change: What was Evolving in the fourth quarter that you're now feeling much more comfortable. Yeah, well, I think yeah, I think One of the things that we did in in the
Speaker Change: that we didn't identify in the third quarter was the induction of the airplanes into delivery or into completions without the engines. That was a significant factor.
Speaker Change: and the implications of that didn't become clear until a bit later. But some of this is learning, in retrospect you might have done something a little different. But on a going forward basis, we've got a lot of that behind us and we'll...
Speaker Change: You know, from a production point of view, we're in regular order. On the completion side, we're getting there, but we're just not there yet.
But we're getting there.
Speaker Change: And by the way, we factored all that thinking into our 25 guidance.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I was going to add a follow-up there. So I think originally you intended 50 deliveries of the 700 in 2025 and obviously it doesn't sound like you've changed, excuse me, in 2024, it doesn't sound like you've changed the manufacturing side of the house.
Speaker Change: And so I guess tying it to Nicole's comment on working capital pressure, I was expecting a little bit of working capital relief at aerospace. I guess I should take it that there was a buildup of EB and OTS that more than offsets it.
Is that correct, Nicole?
Speaker Change: So we had some, and you know, not the picnics, but
Speaker Change: Kim is our CFO, but, um... Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. No offense on that. In fact, you can call any of us, any of our names, and we'll respond accordingly. But, yeah, we'll continue to have a little bit of working capital buildup at...
Gulfstream, as remember we've got the 800 and the 400.
Speaker Change: at Electric Boat. But again, just under tie some of those contracts and that'll begin to unwind.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Scott Mikes from Melius Research. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Good morning.
Speaker Change: Phebe, quick question on the inflation pressures, particularly at Marine. Of the bids that you submitted for fixed price contracts at all your defense businesses over the past couple years, what percentage of those included EPA causes or some sort of language to protect you from future inflationary pressures?
Speaker Change: Well, all of our, you know, just with respect to the Marine Group, all of our contracts have always included EPA clauses.
Speaker Change: It's just that the level of inflation was not contemplated, the growth in inflation was not contemplated at the time these contracts were signed. And frankly,
I think when you fund defense at a 1% increase.
They need to be addressed.
Speaker Change: Okay, and then thinking about aerospace, I think in August there was an announcement that GoldStream
Speaker Change: is going to spend $370 million for a new plant in Mexicali.
Speaker Change: So, I'm just wondering, are you considering ramping up some of your material purchases or production that happens in Mexico or Canada to preempt any potential tariffs?
Thank you.
Speaker Change: So, look, we'll deal with that when it comes and how it comes, but...
Speaker Change: We have long-term plans in place. We are heavily in the United States, as you well know, in our manufacturing facilities. But we will deal with any of the impacts of governmental policy as they occur, as we always have.
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Seth Seifman from JP Morgan. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Thanks very much and good morning everyone.
Speaker Change: I wanted to ask about aerospace. The prior sort of long-term outlook was for up to about 170 deliveries.
Speaker Change: Do we think about the 150 this year? How much of that is sort of due to supply constraint and you know the the waiting for certification of the G800 and you know how do you think about the path from here and you know kind of likewise on margins there was a
Speaker Change: you know, an expectation to be at least in the mid-teens or higher, is there any way to kind of quantify, you know, the extra cost, the supply chain challenges that are dragging on this year and kind of how those can can go away?
Speaker Change: Well, we can certainly quantify the cost, and I think those have been reflected in our margin performance. We have the capacity to build more, but our planning needs to be prudent and needs to reflect the reality.
Speaker Change: at the supply chain, and we've taken, as I noted in my remarks, a bit more of a conservative approach this year to deliveries.
so that we better match.
Speaker Change: supply chain cadence, which the cadence is pretty good. We just need to continue to monitor for quality escapes, which drive both time and cost at Gulfstream because we have more
Speaker Change: More inspectors and more QA inspectors and more test folks on the floor as well as fly-away teams.
Speaker Change: So until we get improvement in that area, I think we have planned accordingly. Margins will build and build nicely at aerospace.
Speaker Change: We've talked about that over the years and all the reasons for that, the commonality of parts.
and the new manufacturing facilities.
Speaker Change: our use of AI and digital engineering in our manufacturing and production facilities. So I'm very confident that we will drive margin performance going forward.
Speaker Change: Okay, thanks. And then, just in technology, what's driving the year-on-year margin pressure?
Speaker Change: So two things, the growth, so think about it this way, mission system's gonna stay relatively flat this year as it finishes its transition.
Speaker Change: from Legacy Programs to new programs and the growth will be at GDIT.
Speaker Change: So GDIT's businesses tend to carry a little lower margins, plus we have a mix shift at GDIT.
Speaker Change: with some mature programs retiring and some newer programs coming online. So it's nothing really but a timing and mix issue. It signifies nothing other than that.
All right, okay, great, thank you.
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from David Strauss from Barclays. Please go ahead, your line is open.
David Strauss: Thanks, good morning. Hi, Phebe. What is the vocabulary assumption for everything embedded within your comments around working capital this year?
We have a one-to-one book-to-bill, is our assumption going forward.
Speaker Change: Okay and then if you could just clarify the comment on the 650 versus the 800 wasn't exactly clear what you were saying there in terms of deliveries do you how many 650s do you actually have left to deliver at this point?
Speaker Change: I don't have the exact number, but we're done by mid-year.
Speaker Change: So the comments, what I was trying to say is the combination of the $800 and the $650s, remember the $800 is a replacement for the $650, the combination of those two platforms will equal about the $650 deliveries this year, give or take a few airplanes.
Got it. Okay.
Speaker Change: The 400 will come obviously after the 800, but as you well know, as I said before, I'm not sticking my finger into the light socket, and with any detail on when we're getting
Speaker Change: When we're getting certification that's beyond our control, but both programs are going very nicely
Speaker Change: So Juliana, I think we have time for one more question.
Speaker Change: Certainly. Our last question will come from Robert Stallard from Vertical Research. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Thanks so much. Good morning.
Morning.
Speaker Change: Phebe, a couple of quick ones on combat. First of all with the new US administration, do you think there's going to be some more flexibility on allowing exports to various parts of the world? And then secondly with regard to Europe, are you seeing any impact from the local political desire to buy more equipment locally? Thank you.
Speaker Change: It's with regard to other parts of the world, if this new U.S. administration may be more flexible in allowing or even encouraging exports to other parts of the world.
Hello, I'm Nicole Shelton.
Speaker Change: Well, I think that this administration has been quite clear that it intends to export and we're certainly able and willing to support that and have in the past.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you everyone for joining our call today. As a reminder, please refer to the General Dynamics website for the fourth quarter earnings release and highlights presentation. If you have additional questions, I can be reached at 703-876-3152. Thank you.
Speaker Change: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.