Q4 2024 Kinross Gold Corp Earnings Call
Thank you.
Prilla: Thank you for standing by. My name is Prilla and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Kinross Gold fourth quarter 2024 results conference call and webcast.
Prilla: This morning I'll.
We'll provide an overview of our fourth quarter and full year results.
Prilla: Highlight our operations projects and provide an outlook for the business going forward.
Prilla: And make a few comments on our achievements in sustainability.
Speaker Change: I will then hand, the call over to Andrea Claude and well.
Prilla: To provide more detail.
Prilla: With respect to Q4.
Prilla: We delivered a strong quarter producing just over 500000 ounces.
Prilla: With respect to the full year.
Prilla: Once again, we achieved our market commitments delivering over two 1 million ounces.
Prilla: We also delivered on our full year cost of sales and all in sustaining cost guidance, which demonstrates our strong focus on rigorous cost discipline.
Prilla: As a result.
Prilla: We generated record free cash flow of more than one $3 billion.
Prilla: Which more than doubled against the prior year.
Prilla: This record cash flow generation also benefited from strong operating margin expansion.
Prilla: Joe pace relative to increase in the gold price.
Prilla: Our.
Prilla: <unk> margins increased by 37%.
Prilla: Compared to a 23% increase in the realized gold price.
Prilla: Maximizing the benefit of the gold price for our company.
Prilla: With respect to our operations, our two largest assets chassis as comparison to where both standouts.
Prilla: Together accounting for approximately $1 2 million ounces.
Prilla: More than half of our production.
Prilla: Tasiast had an exceptional year.
Prilla: Delivering record annual throughput production and cash flow.
Prilla: And once again is our highest margin operation in the portfolio.
Prilla: Parent continue delivered a full year production exceeding the midpoint of guidance.
Prilla: And exceeding 500000 ounces.
Prilla: For the seventh consecutive year.
Prilla: At La Coipa.
Prilla: We delivered on full year production guidance.
Prilla: Work continues on long term optimization of the mill.
Prilla: And our U S operations, we had another solid year.
Prilla: With production and cost on plan.
Prilla: Turning now to updates on our projects.
Prilla: In 2024, we continued to make excellent progress across our pipeline.
Prilla: In particular, we reached an important milestone a great pair with the release of the Pega in September.
Prilla: With the PPA we.
Prilla: We have confirmed the top tier potential of this asset.
Prilla: Estimated average annual production.
Prilla: Of approximately 500000 ounces.
Prilla: At an impressive all in sustaining cost of approximately $800 per ounce.
Prilla: That's a great fair advanced exploration program.
Prilla: We have received all the necessary permits for our current activities.
Prilla: And we expect to receive the two remaining permits when they're required later in the year.
Prilla: The early works activities.
Prilla: Including tree clearing and earthworks commence prior to year end.
Prilla: And construction of the exploration decline is planned to commence later this year.
Prilla: Regarding permitting for the main projects.
Prilla: We continue to work with the impact assessment agency of Canada.
Prilla: And we plan to file the impact statement later this year.
Prilla: At round mountain.
Prilla: Underground development at <unk> is progressing well.
Prilla: With over 3300 meters developed to date.
Prilla: And 21 kilometers of drilling completed last year.
Prilla: As outlined in our news release, we are continuing to see strong exploration results from Zacks rehab.
Prilla: Reaffirming our vision for a high productivity low cost underground mining operation.
Prilla: At Bald mountain, we have unlocked additional value from the approximate 4 million ounce resource base.
Prilla: With the conversion of nearly 1 million ounces into reserves.
Prilla: This conversion marks an important first step.
Prilla: And extending the mine life and falls.
Prilla: While we now see a strong case to proceed with initial mining at the Redbird pits.
Prilla: We are proceeding with a disciplined approach.
Prilla: Are you expecting that redbird can ultimately extend production from ball crew.
Prilla: Through 2031.
Prilla: Well it was going to discuss more on this opportunity later.
Prilla: We also continue to advance work on currently in Washington State.
Speaker Change: In logo Marty in Chile.
Speaker Change: Before moving to our outlook I'd like to comment on our year end reserve and resource pricing update.
Speaker Change: Given the stronger prevailing gold price environment.
Speaker Change: We have revised our gold price assumptions, which aligns with industry peers.
Speaker Change: Our reserves are now determined on a 1600 dollar per ounce gold price.
Speaker Change: And our resources on a $2000 per ounce gold price.
Speaker Change: Although our price assumptions have moved higher.
Speaker Change: We are not planning to reduce the cutoff grades to our mills.
Speaker Change: As our focus remains on maintaining strong margins.
Speaker Change: Moving to our outlook.
Speaker Change: We are reaffirming our stable multi year production profile.
Speaker Change: Production of 2 million ounces for 2025 remains consistent.
Speaker Change: Previous guidance.
Speaker Change: As previously guided.
Speaker Change: Based on mine plan sequencing.
Speaker Change: Production from Tasiast will be lower this year.
Speaker Change: Comparing <unk> two remains on track to deliver higher production this year.
Speaker Change: Looking to 2026, our production outlook of 2 million ounces remains consistent with previous guidance.
Speaker Change: We are introducing a new year.
Speaker Change: Production of 2 million ounces for 2027.
Speaker Change: Beyond 2027, we expect production to remain around 2 million ounces through the end of the decade.
Speaker Change: Maintaining production at this level.
Speaker Change: Based on future production from our pipeline of project opportunities which include.
Speaker Change: Redbird extensions at ball.
Speaker Change: Open pit extensions at La Coipa.
Speaker Change: <unk> underground at round.
Speaker Change: Currently we're in Washington State.
Speaker Change: And great bear to round out a decade.
Speaker Change: We will continue to advance these initiatives.
Speaker Change: And we plan to update you on our progress as we move forward.
Speaker Change: With respect to capital allocation.
Speaker Change: In 2024, we prioritize debt repayment.
Speaker Change: And we have now fully repaid our $1 billion term loan.
Speaker Change: Our quarterly dividend remains in place.
Speaker Change: As our baseline return of capital.
Speaker Change: In the current gold price environment.
Speaker Change: Our business is generating significant cash flow.
Speaker Change: And if this current gold price falls.
Speaker Change: We are planning to return additional capital to shareholders. Later this year in the form of a share buyback.
Speaker Change: Andrea will speak more on this shortly.
Speaker Change: I'd like to comment on some of our achievements and sustainability.
Speaker Change: In 2024, we once again demonstrated our strong commitment to sustainability.
Speaker Change: Operating responsibly.
And advancing our strategy across this important area.
Speaker Change: In May we will publish our 2020 for sustainability report.
Speaker Change: Which will provide a detailed review on our sustainability performance and initiatives throughout the year.
Speaker Change: Some highlights from this past year include.
Completing more than 15 energy efficiency projects across the portfolio.
Speaker Change: Placing us on track to achieve a 30% reduction in emissions intensity by 2030.
Speaker Change: We provided flood relief aid to communities in Brazil in Mauritania.
Speaker Change: We received a sustainability award from the Canadian Council for the Americas.
Speaker Change: And we were the top scoring gold company and top 10% overall.
Speaker Change: In the global Mail's annual corporate governance survey.
Speaker Change: Lastly.
Speaker Change: I'd like to take a moment to thank Catherine Mcleod Seltzer for.
Speaker Change: For her significant contributions to Kinross and the board over her 20 year directorship with 10 Ross.
Speaker Change: Catherine has been an independent board member since 2005 and chair of the board since 2019.
Speaker Change: Kathryn will be retiring from her role at our AGM in May.
Speaker Change: And we are pleased to announce Kelly Osbourne, a tank on Catherine's previous role of independent chair.
Andrea Claude: With that I will now turn the call over to Andrea.
Andrea Claude: Thanks, Paul This morning, I will review, our financial highlights from the quarter and full year provide an overview of our balance sheet and our capital allocation plan and discuss our guidance and outlook and Paul noted we delivered production in line with guidance and 2024.
Andrea Claude: Year attributable production was 2.13 million ounces with production of 501000 ounces in the fourth quarter.
Andrea Claude: Q4 sales of 518000 ounces were slightly about production due to timing.
Andrea Claude: Cost of sales of $1096 per ounce and all in sustaining cost of $510 per ounce in the fourth quarter were higher compared to the prior quarter as expected mainly due to lower planned production from passive and hair care.
Andrea Claude: Full year cost of sales at $1021 per ounce and full year all in sustaining cost at <unk> hundred $88 per ounce were also.
Andrea Claude: So in line with guidance.
Andrea Claude: Margins were strong at $567 per ounce sold in Q4, and 1300 $72 trends for the full year.
Andrea Claude: Our adjusted earnings were <unk> 20 per share in Q4, and 68 cents per share for the full year.
Andrea Claude: Adjusted operating cash flow was $614 million in Q4, and approximately $2 1 billion for the full year.
Andrea Claude: Attributable Capex was $279 million in Q4, and $1 5 billion for.
Andrea Claude: For the full year in line with full year guidance.
Andrea Claude: Attributable free cash flow was a record $434 million in Q4 and was also a record 134 billion for the full year.
Andrea Claude: Turning to the balance sheet, we ended the year with $612 million in cash and approximately $2 3 billion of total liquidity.
Andrea Claude: We repaid an impressive $800 million against our term loan in 2024, and after making a subsequent repayment of $200 million are $1 billion term loan has now been fully repaid.
Andrea Claude: We have now fully paid for the acquisition of great. There and just the third anniversary with fewer shares outstanding than prior to the transaction.
Andrea Claude: Over the last 24 months, we have reduced our net debt by approximately $1 4 billion and our net debt to EBITDA from one seven times to three times as of year end.
Andrea Claude: Our business is generating strong cash flow in the current gold price environment and with the term loan now fully repaid we are well position to consider additional return of capital for our shareholders.
Andrea Claude: We are in the process of renewing our N civ and based on recent gold prices, we expect to initiate a share buyback program later this year.
Andrea Claude: As typical for US, we expect Q1 to be a cash outflow quarter.
Andrea Claude: In addition to the $200 million term loan repayment that we made in February.
Andrea Claude: We also have our annual income tax payments and Brookdale and now Mauritania and our semi annual interest payments.
Andrea Claude: As such we will provide an update on our return of capital plans with our Q1 results in May.
Andrea Claude: Turning to our guidance and outlook as Paul noted, we're forecasting production in the range of 2 million ounces for 2025 remaining consistent with previous guidance.
Andrea Claude: For costs, we're guiding 1100 $20 per ounce for cost of sales and $500 per ounce for apex.
Andrea Claude: Cost of sales in APAC are both up approximately 10% compared with 2024.
Andrea Claude: The expected increase is driven by three factors, which mainly include structural changes to our portfolio. This year.
Andrea Claude: First.
Andrea Claude: Production guidance of 2 million ounces relative to 2.1 million ounces last year, resulting in a denominator impact on our fixed costs and non sustaining capital in the case of all in sustaining costs.
Andrea Claude: Second with a lower planned conservation from taxes. This year, we will see a smaller benefit from our lowest cost mine.
Andrea Claude: Lasse modest overall cost inflation of 3% to 4%.
Andrea Claude: Our capital expenditure guidance of 1.15 billion for 2025 reflects annual inflation and planned higher capital spend as we continue to advance great. There.
Andrea Claude: Approximately $615 million of our total capex is expected to be non sustaining.
Andrea Claude: Looking ahead to 2020, our production guidance of 2 million ounces remains unchanged from our guidance update last year.
Andrea Claude: Beyond 2020, we have introduced another year of production guidance of 2 million ounces for 2027 in line with 2025 and 2020.
Andrea Claude: Subject to ongoing inflation attributable Capex is expected to be consistent in 2026 and 2027 in order to continue to bring projects within our pipeline into production.
Claude: I'll now turn the call over to Claude to discuss our operations.
Claude: Thank you Andrea.
Speaker Change: In the fourth quarter, we officially launched our health and safety, Brad called Safe Brown and.
Speaker Change: And commenced work on establishing safeguard leadership development programs that will be tailored and delivered for specific groups executives managers frontline supervisors and operators.
Speaker Change: In 2024 hour operations delivered on our full year production and cost guidance.
Speaker Change: And we are encouraged to see our culture of operational excellence continue to drive strong results from our operations.
Speaker Change: Production of 501000 ounces in the fourth quarter as planned.
Speaker Change: Starting with Tasiast.
Speaker Change: The mine delivered record throughput production and cash flow.
Speaker Change: Record full year production of 622000 ounces at an impressive cost of sales of $691 per ounce drove record free cash flow from our lowest cost operation.
Speaker Change: In the fourth quarter does this delivered production of 139000 ounces at <unk>.
Speaker Change: Cost of sales of $725 an ounce.
Speaker Change: Production was lower over the prior quarter due to a planned reduction in grades.
Speaker Change: Production at Tasiast is expected to be lower in 2020 as mining continues transitioning into lower grades.
Speaker Change: As it is expected to deliver 500000 ounces with the target cost of sales of $860 per ounce.
Speaker Change: And is expected to be our lowest cost operation once again this year.
Speaker Change: <unk> delivered another strong year with production of 529000 ounces exceeding the midpoint of guidance.
Speaker Change: The cost of sales a $1039 pounds, which was below the midpoint of guidance.
Speaker Change: As planned mine sequencing continued to transition into higher grades in the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: Production of 124000 ounces was lower over the prior quarter as stronger grades were offset by lower throughput.
Speaker Change: <unk> from the timing of some mill maintenance and mine sequencing.
Speaker Change: Production at BEC II is expected to be higher and costs lower this year as mining continues.
Speaker Change: Higher grade portion of the pit.
Speaker Change: Attitude is expected to produce 595000 ounces at a cost of sales of $1025 per ounce in 2025.
As the coipa fourth quarter production of approximately 59000 ounces improved over the prior quarter on stronger mill throughput.
Speaker Change: Offset lower grades.
Speaker Change: Full year production of 246000 ounces was in line with guidance.
Speaker Change: The <unk> team continues to manage throughput, while along to a mill optimization initiatives are being implemented.
Speaker Change: It looks like.
Speaker Change: Anticipated to produce 230000 ounces at a cost of sales of $1060 bumps in 2025.
Speaker Change: Moving to our U S operations production was stronger in the second half of the year as expected.
Speaker Change: Following the startup production for <unk> early in the third quarter.
Speaker Change: Collectively the U S sites delivered full year production of 731000 ounces at a cost of sales $1313 per ounce, which was in line with guidance.
Production of 179000 ounces in the final quarter was on plan.
Speaker Change: Alaska fourth quarter production of 92000 ounces was lower compared to the prior quarter.
Speaker Change: And cost of sales of $1320 pounds was higher due to the timing of the processing of memento.
Speaker Change: At Bald Mountain, we produced 45000 ounces at a cost of sales of $1144 per ounce.
Speaker Change: Production was in line over the prior quarter, while costs were slightly lower due to the timing of sales.
Speaker Change: At round mountain production of 43000 ounces was in line compared to the prior quarter.
Speaker Change: Cost of sales of $1764 per ounce was higher due to the accounting of higher cost ounces from the leach pads.
Speaker Change: Mining at the Phase is open pit remains on schedule with initial production expected to begin in the second half of the year.
Speaker Change: With that I'll now pass the call over to William to discuss our projects.
Speaker Change: Thanks Claude.
Speaker Change: We've just released our annual reserve and resource so I'd like to start out by providing that update and then I'll discuss the growth projects, considering our resource and underpin our potential future production profile.
Speaker Change: We are currently in a phase where we are focused on drilling and developing our earlier stage higher grade growth projects like great bear phase eggs Lobo Marte and Carlin.
Speaker Change: As a result, the majority of our additions this year came in the inferred category, where we saw a $1 7 million ounce increase.
Speaker Change: We did also see some additions in the <unk> category, which were largely offset by conversion of 1 million ounces out of MNI into reserve at Bald Mountain.
Speaker Change: We are updating our reserve and resource gold price assumptions from Fortune 500, 6800, and from 70 to 100 to 2000, respectively.
Speaker Change: The intention of this was to be more reflective of the current gold price environment.
Speaker Change: With the increase in our gold price, we are taking a balanced approach and our objective was not to draw cutoff grades to grow resources.
Speaker Change: Instead, we are focused on margin and quality of our resource additions to extend our mine lives and bring on higher grade growth projects as you can see by the overall increase in resource grade.
Speaker Change: To that end you can see on this slide an overview of the significant resource Optionality for both mine life extensions at our existing mines and new production from growth projects with 26 million ounces and F&I and another 13 million ounces in inferred.
Speaker Change: These resources form the pipeline of potential opportunities that we are progressing to support our production profile through the end of the decade and into the 2013.
Speaker Change: This slide gives an indication of the level of study of these opportunities.
Speaker Change: We have our base case, which includes reserves and already approved projects and provides the production and our guidance window through 2027.
Speaker Change: Second we have several growth projects at an advanced stage of study that offer potential to add production both through the end of the decade and beyond into the thirties.
Speaker Change: And third we have several opportunities within our project pipeline that are at an earlier stage of study and offer potential to contribute to our 2000 <unk> production profile.
Speaker Change: We remain excited about our internal prospects, which are further augmented by today's strong gold price and we will continue to maintain a disciplined approach progressing these projects into our production profile with a focus on margin and return.
Speaker Change: Bald Mountain offers a recent example of bringing these pipeline opportunities into our production profile.
Speaker Change: In mid 2024, we received our permits for the Juniper package and on the back of this we have converted approximately 1 million ounces of resource to reserve the redbird pits.
Speaker Change: Split redbird into two phases, we have approved and already started mining phase one which contains 270000 ounces and we will take production into 2028.
Speaker Change: Phase two containing approximately 690000 ounces of MNI could begin in 2026 and extend production from Bald mountain through 2031.
Speaker Change: This phased approach lowers the initial capex and risk and pulls forward earlier production from baseline into 2027, while we continue to optimize our design and execution plan for phase III.
The initial capex of 120 million for phase one is primarily pre stripping costs as phase one leverages the existing leach pad capacity.
Speaker Change: Thereby minimizing our initial capital risk.
Speaker Change: Project has an all in sustaining costs were $500 per ounce and a strong return at today's gold price.
Speaker Change: We also continue to focus on additional optionality at Bald mountain outside redbird, including looking at small satellite opportunities that could become bind with redburn two.
Speaker Change: At Tasiast, we have completed a new mine plan on the back of the 2024 reserve update.
Speaker Change: Has this production over the next three years is expected to be lower driven by mine plan sequencing and lower mill grades as we focus on stripping and West branch five.
Speaker Change: It has been a focus for the Tasiast team to increase production and the 25 through 27 window through operational improvements design optimizations and unlocking satellite opportunities.
Speaker Change: This work has added approximately 100000 ounces over this three year period as compared to the mine plan update we provided in 2023.
Speaker Change: Optimization at Tasiast is ongoing with additional satellite opportunities being evaluated.
Speaker Change: Studies to explore underground potential are also progressing with recent drilling at request branch intersecting wide mineralization 700 meters down plunge of the existing resource.
Speaker Change: Moving from our operations to our growth projects Curlew team has been successful in adding high quality resources over the last couple of years further enhancing the potential of the project.
Speaker Change: As part of our year end resource update we are pleased to report a high grade Resource addition at Carlin.
Speaker Change: This is the addition of 125000 ounces at nine grams per tonne and the cell cell, which continues to be opened both long strike and depth.
Speaker Change: Not only are we seeing strong grades in that zone, but it's also coming in at a variable minable width, averaging just over five meters.
Speaker Change: This focus on high grade extension itself will continue in 2025 with an expanded drill program targeting further extensions at depth.
Speaker Change: Now shifting focus to phase <unk>, where development and drilling continues to progress well.
Speaker Change: We have now expanded drilling into the upper zone of the exploration target and you can see the results continue to support our thesis of a bulk underground operation and the range of three to four grams per tonne, providing potential for higher margin supplemental production at round mountain.
Speaker Change: In 2025, we will be completing our initial infill drilling program at phase <unk> and we.
Speaker Change: The release of an initial underground resource with our 25 year end resource update.
Speaker Change: A great bear early works construction for advanced exploration commenced in November.
Speaker Change: As can be seen on the slide tree clearing is now complete earthworks for exploration for the exploration infrastructure has commenced.
Speaker Change: We are excited.
Speaker Change: To have broken ground and are focused on progressing civil works and permitting over the coming quarters to allow us to start the exploration decline later this year.
Speaker Change: Moving to the broader exploration update our team had another strong campaign in 2024 with approximately 320 kilometers of drilling completed across my next brownfields and Greenfields.
Speaker Change: As detailed in our press release. This program produced notable results across several locations.
Speaker Change: We provided an update on great bear back in September highlighting the successful addition of over 500000 ounces of high grade inferred resource at depth and the strong results of our pega.
Speaker Change: We also highlighted the drilling at depth below the PPA inventory and resource demonstrates the significant upside potential for further resource additions.
Speaker Change: Following the success of this 2024 drilling and the result of the PPA.
Speaker Change: We have shifted our focus at great barriers to regional exploration work on the 120 square kilometer land package we have.
Speaker Change: <unk> already provided updates on currently when phase X to y.
Speaker Change: I will move on to our other U S assets.
Speaker Change: At Fort Knox the program focused on two main areas growth around the Fort Knox pit and around the Gulf South.
Speaker Change: We saw some good intercepts across both areas, indicating potential for additional mill feed and this work will be followed up on in 2025.
Speaker Change: At Bald mountain with near term line extensions established through the approval of Redbird won the 2025 exploration campaign will focus on conversion of inferred resource and redbird too and on generative projects.
Speaker Change: At Tasiast, we added 110000 ounces to reserves in 2024 through the addition of the Phoenix satellite pits.
Speaker Change: Exploration in 2025, we will focus on further expanding mineralization at the underground target and drilling out additional satellite pit opportunities on the wider land package.
Speaker Change: Moving to Chile, our Brownfields program further delineated porphyry mineralization and in 2025, we will follow up on these results and also progress exploration of known trends on the La Coipa license.
Speaker Change: In Brazil, our brownfields program focused on testing targets, along the northwest quarter preparing to with results showing similar style and greater mineralization to the parent to deposits.
Speaker Change: Moving to our Greenfields program approximately 45 kilometers of drilling was completed on targets located in Canada, The U S and Finland.
Speaker Change: In Manitoba are drilling at Laguna continue to define high grade shear hosted vein systems and in 2025, we will focus on increasing the critical mass of mineralization to support further work.
Speaker Change: And Nevada drilling was completed across several prospective properties with the potential for Carlin and low sulfonation gold mineralization.
Speaker Change: As drilling included an initial diamond drill hole of the Pwc JV project in September.
Speaker Change: <unk> successfully intersected lower plate carbonates associated with the Cortez district at depth.
Speaker Change: In Finland, we progressed, both base until drilling for target delineation and follow up Diamond drilling, which showed some high grade intercepts at lobbies.
Speaker Change: In Finland, we will follow up on these successes in 2025 and continue our exploration of this under explored greenstone belt.
Speaker Change: Overall, we are encouraged with our success identifying and progressing earlier stage opportunities such as phase <unk> Curlew and Greg Baer.
Paul: I will now turn it back to Paul for closing remarks.
Paul: Thanks will.
Speaker Change: After delivering on our commitments in 2024, we are well positioned for a successful 2025.
Speaker Change: Our business is in great shape, both operationally and financially with a number of key milestones for the year ahead, including.
Speaker Change: Repayment of our term loan.
Speaker Change: Pre stripping at Redbird.
Speaker Change: Advancing permitting across great bear currently la coipa and local Marty.
Speaker Change: Advancing exploration decline infrastructure at great fare.
Speaker Change: Extending our share buyback plan.
Jess: Initial production from Hey, Jess.
Speaker Change: Satellite mining at <unk>.
Speaker Change: And an anticipated year end resource at Paychex.
Speaker Change: In summary.
Speaker Change: We are excited about our future.
Speaker Change: We have a strong production profile.
Speaker Change: We are generating significant free cash flow.
We have an excellent balance sheet.
Speaker Change: We have an attractive dividend and plan on returning additional capital.
Speaker Change: We have an exciting pipeline of both exploration and development opportunities.
Speaker Change: We are very proud of our commitment to responsible mining and continues to make us a leader in sustainability.
Speaker Change: With that operator, I'd like to open up the lines for questions.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you and we will now begin the question and answer session. If you have now than we would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad Chamisa handed joined the queue. If you would like to draw. Your question. Please press star one again once again, please press star one to ask a question.
Speaker Change: Your first question comes from the line of Mike Parkin with National Bank. Please go ahead.
Mike Parkin: Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my question.
Speaker Change: Great presentation, really like slide 2020 one there in terms of all the upside you've got that Youre working on so looking forward to updates there just.
Mike Parkin: Question on Kinross.
Mike Parkin: Test operation in the fourth quarter, how many days was that shut down.
Claude: Hi, Good morning, Mike its Claude.
Mike Parkin: Yes.
Mike Parkin: We do they shut down for about 45 days, we did some re lining stuff and changing some belts and things. So we will.
Mike Parkin: Brought online.
Mike Parkin: And from a production point of view.
Mike Parkin: As we entered into the lower grade section, which was in anticipation of this year going forward.
We still maintained upstream quote average politically.
Mike Parkin: Yes, that's what I was getting at is like what I just for that.
Mike Parkin: 87 operating days year over 25000 tons per day, so that's like the second consecutive quarter of year.
Mike Parkin: You're not quite 10% above nameplate, but consistently kind of hitting.
Mike Parkin: Hitting above the target.
Mike Parkin: What's kind of driving that is that you've got some spare capacity in the front.
Mike Parkin: The circuit that Youre utilizing.
Mike Parkin: Do you see that kind of continuing going forward and what what was the baseline assumption in terms of throughput for guidance.
Mike Parkin: Yes, Mike all of that is as planned in order to do an average of 24000 today, we need to do some day that 26000 27000.
Mike Parkin: So we're well within the nameplate.
Really just about.
Mike Parkin: Our ability to use our ci initiatives in all of these things too.
Mike Parkin: We have more and longer extended runs.
Mike Parkin: All of them at a higher rate. So we had a tremendous quarter in terms of throughput.
Mike Parkin: And as I said, we moved into lower grade Thats why the production was slightly down.
Mike Parkin: But we're well set up and we've started the year very strongly as well now.
Mike Parkin: Given that we've taken the opportunity to maintain when we could.
Mike Parkin: Okay.
Mike Parkin: In terms of the limiting factor. There is are you more mill constrained or picked constraints in terms of getting.
Mike Parkin: Or either out of the pit ore through the mill.
Mike Parkin: And I think the ultimate constraint is the plant because we've got some stockpiles and as we manage through from phase four at the bottom of that but now getting into the phase five stripping, we will balance production through stockpiles and bond performance.
Mike Parkin: Ultimately we've designed this.
Mike Parkin: <unk> to run an average of 24000 there'll be times that we averaged slightly above that and I'll, let Tom slightly below but we are.
Mike Parkin: It's just come along with strong after some tough tough years.
Mike Parkin: We're pushing the boundaries and limits and we constantly learn more about the Boston.
Mike Parkin: Certain things.
Mike Parkin: And it will be a balance of making sure we maintain a recovery levels.
Mike Parkin: Put some tons to ought to start losing on recovery.
Mike Parkin: Okay.
Mike Parkin: And then switching over to the exploration side of things and the reserve resources the underground.
Mike Parkin: Round mountain.
Mike Parkin: You keep hitting these really high grade structures.
Speaker Change: How is that being kind of captured in the reported reserves and resources with respect to where is your Catherine Green Dot App.
Just kind of don't have understand what youre reporting versus like what you are kind of realizing that the drill bit.
Speaker Change: Yeah, we don't have an underground reserve or resource at Phase IX at round mountain yet.
Speaker Change: The resources on the books and reserves are all open pit.
Speaker Change: Were hoping after this infill drilling inventory now that's the reason we're doing it is to get an initial underground resource out at the end of year next year.
Speaker Change: We'll update.
Speaker Change: And then I think.
Speaker Change: The real question Hi, Greg.
Greg Baer: Okay, Yes, because I think I remember you guys guided the market to kind of three to four grams historically in terms of where the underground pea kind of.
Speaker Change: Shape up as that.
Speaker Change: Is the feeling that this may be a bit conservative given the consistent.
Speaker Change: Really good drill results youre, putting in the market.
Speaker Change: Matt.
Speaker Change: We don't want to get ahead of ourselves and that is why we are doing the infill drilling and you can see on slide 25 in what we released that we've got a pretty extensive table on the right hand side that shows all of the drilling in that upper right portion.
Speaker Change: The exploration target.
Speaker Change: And you can see there both the wider in the intervals and narrower intervals with the higher grade highlights.
Speaker Change: Want to get the bigger resource and we want to get the bulkier deposits. So you can see a more represent representatives IBM degrade in those wider intervals and we do still see it being about three years to four gram per ton range.
Speaker Change: And that's ultimately how we're going to maximize the economics on this is by going to bulk mining with these pretty pretty exceptional wide.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Okay, well looking forward to the update congrats.
Speaker Change: Congrats.
Speaker Change: Thanks.
Speaker Change: And your next question comes from the line of any testimony with CIBC. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Hi, good morning, Paul and team and congrats.
Speaker Change: To the whole team on a very successful year on many fronts.
Speaker Change: And I agree with Mike on that slide 2020 one.
Speaker Change: Good to see those slides again, especially from companies with the track record that actually executing on what they say they will do.
Speaker Change: On the.
Speaker Change: On the Redbird. Additionally, on the phase II could you give us an idea of what additional incremental capital would be needed to get that.
Speaker Change: Additional 700000 ounces.
Speaker Change: Yes look we are still working on phase two that's why we've accrued phase one is the main benefit of well one of the many benefits of facing US is that the phase one cash flow that comes from those early ounces is intended to pay the majority of the capex for phase II to keep that site.
Speaker Change: Relatively cash flow neutral as it strips phase II.
Speaker Change: So we don't have an exact sense of the capex, yet and we need to complete our work.
Speaker Change: That's the idea is to try and try and keep it current gold prices.
Speaker Change: <unk> zero as we strip phase II.
Speaker Change: Okay, and then just a question for <unk>.
Speaker Change: The finance team and Paul just wondering when it comes to the share buybacks that you were talking about in second half of the year is it just basically got it kind of getting through the cash outflows that you expect in Q1, and then gold prices stay where they are.
Speaker Change: You can start executing on that in Q2 or is it more of a back half of the year.
Speaker Change: No I think that's exactly as you described it.
Speaker Change: Peter.
Speaker Change: Again from my perspective, we haven't we've been consistent with our capital allocation.
Speaker Change: Lots of fee.
Speaker Change: As we say all the time and its needs of the business needs of the balance sheet return of capital to shareholders.
Speaker Change: We did of course.
Speaker Change: Repay the debt that was our priority in 'twenty four.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Andrea Claude: As Andrea said.
Andrea Claude: On the cash we built up here.
Andrea Claude: While we've been paying down debt or about to pay a bunch of that out as we do seasonally in Q1.
Andrea Claude: So we want to we want to get through that kind of get our cash back up.
Andrea Claude: Uh huh.
Andrea Claude: Hopefully we're still in the same kind of gold price environment, and we think that is the right time to be thinking about turning back on the buyback.
Andrea Claude: Okay.
Andrea Claude: Another question just on.
Andrea Claude: Big picture, I guess, great Darren and I'm, just wondering if you've seen any on the permitting front you will see any change in that.
Andrea Claude: Yes.
Andrea Claude: Government standpoint in terms of how.
Andrea Claude: How motivated they are to get these permits tool.
Andrea Claude: Yeah look I mean, I think it's a safe assumption that win.
Andrea Claude: When there's an election.
Andrea Claude: It's kind of slow down.
Andrea Claude: In terms of the bureaucrats.
Andrea Claude: I'll get Jeff to kind of expand on it he is on the frontline of that one thanks, Paul Yes no.
Andrea Claude: Thanks.
Andrea Claude: Paul Ryan as a practical matter.
Andrea Claude: There is a little bit of a slowdown.
Andrea Claude: We've spent a lot of time on both provincially and federally.
Andrea Claude: Connecting with the regulators and building relationships there.
Andrea Claude: And as a result, those permits will we will continue to advance.
Andrea Claude: And we're still expecting to get the remaining permits that we require.
Andrea Claude: Without.
Andrea Claude: Without delay.
Andrea Claude: Okay and then.
Andrea Claude: Lastly, I want just wanted to ask on <unk>.
Andrea Claude: On Fort Knox Man show.
Andrea Claude: There's a bit of variability in <unk>.
Andrea Claude: In the tonnage that's coming through I understand some of it has to do with the weight restrictions.
Andrea Claude: Winter and I believe.
Andrea Claude: Well I could be wrong about that but.
Andrea Claude: Just wanted to get an idea of what the standard kind of tonnage that you would expect that at launch.
Andrea Claude: And those are pretty good grades this past quarter as well.
Andrea Claude: Comment on that.
Andrea Claude: Yes.
Andrea Claude: Correct.
Andrea Claude: As we go through seasonal things in the North we end up with different load restrictions. We also have.
Andrea Claude: One load restriction that came after the season ability study that we've had to adjust for.
Andrea Claude: Given the rebound in number of trips.
Andrea Claude: On a daily basis, but we expect to do at an average of 200 to.
Andrea Claude: 220000 batches would redo mento.
Andrea Claude: As you can appreciate we switched from very low grade Fort Knox.
Speaker Change: Hi, Great manager and then back to Fort Knox.
Speaker Change: Our average is about 220 thousands per batch.
Speaker Change: And we expect to maintain.
Speaker Change: Sort of one quarter, it's updated.
Speaker Change: Alright, so 220000 K tons per quarter or and your batch at this shipment okay.
Speaker Change: Alright.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you very much that's it for my questions.
Speaker Change: And your next question comes from the line of Josh Wolfson with RBC capital markets. Please go ahead.
Josh Wolfson: Yes, thanks very much on on the capital returns program I understand the motivation to.
Josh Wolfson: Maybe a bit conservatively repay the debt wait pursuing some higher cash flow periods I'm just wondering how the team is going to be evaluating.
Josh Wolfson: At the end of the buyback in the context of how.
Josh Wolfson: The share prices performed its been.
Josh Wolfson: <unk> phenomenal year to date phenomenal year over year.
Josh Wolfson: Is that going to influence the quantum of the buyback or is it going to be a.
Josh Wolfson: More mechanical or formulaic process. Thanks.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I'll take that and we have to feel free to jump in good question.
Speaker Change: I think it's all about the right balanced a number one we still see our shares as undervalued.
Speaker Change: We also.
We will think about that in the context of spot.
Speaker Change: So you can look at our valuation of share price.
The sense of consensus.
Speaker Change: With a consensus gold price you can also look at it in the context of spot and in both cases, we believe we are undervalued.
Speaker Change: Having said that it's not lost on me or us that.
Speaker Change: Here, we are record gold prices.
Speaker Change: Really good share prices.
Speaker Change: Is this the time to be buying back your shares we still think it is but I think it.
Speaker Change: It requires balance and focus and that's how we're coming at it will be thinking about it in those terms it won't be just.
Speaker Change: Necessarily an automatic formula.
Speaker Change: Got it thanks, and then one other question on the.
Speaker Change: Tax.
Speaker Change: Guidance that was issued shall.
Speaker Change: Should we be assuming going forward.
Speaker Change: Full tax rates.
Speaker Change: Both tasiast and La Coipa, the number seems to have gone up year over year and I just want to make sure that.
Speaker Change: It's maybe a combination of maybe capital being repaid as well as gold prices have increased.
Josh Wolfson: Yeah. It is both Josh so.
Speaker Change: Starting with Mauritania.
Speaker Change: 2024 was the first year that we became income taxable in Mauritania.
Speaker Change: If we look if we look at.
Speaker Change: The tax cash tax guidance about $200 million of added payments will actually making Q1 that are.
Speaker Change: Related to 2024, so yeah that is.
Speaker Change: Both Mauritania.
Speaker Change: Coming in as well as higher gold price.
Impacting brookdale in Chile, where we're also paying significant taxes and then the rest of that guidance suggest tax installments that we expect to pay throughout 2025.
Speaker Change: Got it thanks, and sorry, just to clarify for Tasiast should we be assuming the full corporate tax rate of 25% or is there.
Speaker Change: Still look a low tax year versus steady state.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: So normal tax.
Speaker Change: Tax yes.
Speaker Change: Okay, great. Thank you.
Speaker Change: And your next question I guess, just one game.
Speaker Change: Alright, guys.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Sorry go ahead.
Speaker Change: Got it.
Speaker Change: We can advance to the next question. Thank you and your next question comes from the line of Kerry Macquarie with Canaccord Genuity. Please go ahead.
Kerry Macquarie: Hi, Good morning, everyone, just maybe back on capital allocation I know theres more details to come there, but just in terms of the cash balance I guess are you guys thinking about building up a cash balance ahead of great bear is there a minimum cash balance that you want to maintain and then I guess the second question is the term loans gone there is no debt due till 2027.
Kerry Macquarie: Just broadly speaking in terms of debt are you comfortable maintaining net debt I E kind of keeping that leverage going forward or would you even consider repaying debt down in the future.
Kerry Macquarie: Sure. Thanks Kerry.
Kerry Macquarie: With the like of that part is sort of hitting it right on which we look forward to 2027 and note that the next maturity and we do plan, we would like to repay those notes. So that's kind of back of our minds as we think about that cash balance.
Kerry Macquarie: If we think about you know what we will allocate to share buybacks were balancing as we always do needs of the business. So that's the key.
Kerry Macquarie: Capex going forward for this year, and then with an eye to the balance sheet again with in the back of our mind that we wanted to make sure we can repay the 2027.
Kerry Macquarie: And then balancing that with additional return of capital. So that's sort of how we're thinking about our cash balance is a bit higher at the end of the year.
Paul: And as Paul noted some of that.
Paul: A lot of that gets paid out in Q1 with the $200 million repaid.
Paul: So finished chat repayments on the term loan as well as the tax payments interest payments in Q1.
Paul: We'd like to get back to where we were when you started the year at <unk> and then we will look to allocating some of the excess cash.
Paul: In the form of buybacks.
Paul: Okay, Great and then maybe just.
Paul: Mechanical question, but just in terms of the quarterly sequence of production you did 500000 acid in the quarter 2 million ounces as the guidance should we be expecting relatively consistent production through the year or is there sort of seasonality that we should consider.
Paul: It's relatively.
Paul: Even consistent as we look out to next year.
Paul: Okay, and then maybe just one last one on La Coipa, you mentioned permitting and some layback. So just wondering if you could give us a bit of color on what that potentially it leads to.
Paul: Yes, we've got our currently you see on the reserves takes us through 2027 in terms of the mine plan and then the permitting that was discussed in the press release is really just for further extensions of the open pits. There we've got additional oxide pits very similar to what we've been doing.
Paul: So kind of steady as she goes but there is some permitting required as a part of that to bring that into the end of the decade.
Paul: So potentially taking out to late 2030 or so.
Paul: Yes, yes.
Paul: It all depends on I guess gold price, but those should be able to take us at least through 2030, we do have a meaningful inventory.
Paul: Potential there you can see it on our resource statement.
Paul: It could go beyond that.
Paul: But.
Paul: Okay, Great and maybe one last quick one you mentioned that Tasiast New mine plan.
Paul: Should we be expecting a 43 101 reporter or no.
Paul: Yes, we'll most likely update that resort at that report.
Paul: This year.
Paul: Alright, great Thats it for me thanks, everyone.
Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question comes from the line of Lawson Winder with Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Lawson Winder: Thank you operator, good morning, guys.
Speaker Change: Nice update.
Speaker Change: Wanted to ask about your commentary on exploration at La Coipa, and just get a sense in terms of your optimism around the ability to add to resources there.
Speaker Change: Is that something we could expect to potentially see as soon as 2025.
Speaker Change: Yes, I mean, our focus there really is we already have the resources on the bulks to carry us through 2030. So we're not massively focused on expanding a lot beyond that it looks like but there is a lot of water.
Speaker Change: Good targets, it's pretty prolific drowned out there.
Speaker Change: A variety of historic pits in the area. So we had mentioned we will be doing some testing around some of those pits looking for lower strip higher margin kind of pushback in those pits.
Speaker Change: So theres a lot of exploration potential.
Speaker Change: As you saw this year, our real focus right now is drilling off these new growth projects that are coming in at a higher grade to support.
Speaker Change: It goes ultimately into our production profile and reserves, but we will do some exploration at la coipa as well.
Speaker Change: And I'll just jump in on that I mean part of the.
Speaker Change: Part of the consideration.
Speaker Change: That part of Chile.
Speaker Change: Operating region three camera is water.
Speaker Change: And we have existing permitted pumping water wells and support but.
Speaker Change: We want to think about <unk> future and also logo, Mark Kaye, which we're advancing so.
Speaker Change: We're trying to find the right balance between.
Speaker Change: Continuing to grow resources.
Speaker Change: Looking to bring global online towards the end of the decade.
Speaker Change: And working within our existing water permits.
Speaker Change: That's perfect you addressed my follow up question and then.
Speaker Change: We'd like to also just ask again about capital return and your thoughts on the dividend level, which is.
Speaker Change: I mean, I think abundantly sustainable.
Speaker Change: Current level and potentially sustainable at a higher level is that.
Speaker Change: And you're also considering thank you.
Speaker Change: Yes look I think.
Speaker Change: Just.
Speaker Change: We just want to be careful we want to be balanced.
Speaker Change: It was a question earlier it doesn't make sense at the share price.
Speaker Change: We think it does given our relative value.
Speaker Change: And so.
Speaker Change: As I said needs of the business well, we are well maintained we keep a well capitalized business, which we believe reduces operating risk.
Speaker Change: We focused on.
Speaker Change: Paying down the term loan.
Speaker Change: We've just completed that cash out quarter.
Speaker Change: We want to kind of strengthen the balance sheet again, so needs of the business needs of the balance sheet and then we should be in great shape too.
Speaker Change: See where we are in the current in that environment as we look out to the second quarter as to what the appropriate what feels like the appropriate kind of propel.
Speaker Change: Proportion of free cash flow to allocate to the buyback.
So if I'm hearing your answer the preferences buyback over over dividend does that is that fair.
Speaker Change: That's correct.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: And once again, if you would like to ask a question. Please press star one.
Speaker Change: And your next question comes from the line of <unk> <unk> with Scotiabank. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Hi, yes, good morning.
Speaker Change: Great question.
Speaker Change: Congrats on making your guidance after <unk>.
Speaker Change: 2024.
Speaker Change: Just wanted to go back to the lab and maybe cloud can you on the.
Speaker Change: Sequencing.
Speaker Change: The mine plan through 2025 can.
Speaker Change: Can you just remind me maybe just shut down if any are any of your operation I'm trying to offset like the seasonality part not just China and the wet season.
Speaker Change: In Brazil, and just trying to see when that downtime or any of your other operations.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: The last couple of years, we've been working towards.
Flattening that.
Speaker Change: Jagged chunk to top performances.
Speaker Change: Scheduling maintenance activities in a way that they are more a part of the process. We don't have major upgrades and shut down.
Speaker Change: And any of the sites now and so it's typical mo maintenance or some of them will have four day shutdowns to rely on us.
Speaker Change: It's a couple of more days, depending on which.
Segment of the bold moves so we are managing that.
Speaker Change: Andres point earlier this is the year that we've actually got to.
Speaker Change: The tightest range between every single quarters.
Speaker Change: We're going to manage that and manage the.
Speaker Change: Performance of each of those subs.
Speaker Change: Okay, that's good to hear.
Speaker Change: And maybe Andrew you didn't answer the question.
Speaker Change: The minimum cash do you think you need to hold on the balance sheet to run this 2 million ounce business.
Speaker Change: I mean.
Speaker Change: Typically we've had if we look back over the last.
Speaker Change: Number of years, our average cash balance by about 500 million.
Speaker Change: And that's where we typically like to be and some of that.
Speaker Change: Patiently moving cash around around the world.
Speaker Change: As a minimal as a minimum right, but again, we are thinking about the future. We are thinking about those notes.
Speaker Change: Again, we're going to look for there.
Speaker Change: Great balance if you will on free cash flow as to where.
Return and continuing to strengthen the balance sheet.
Speaker Change: No I appreciate that get funded what that what you would feel comfortable holding just under 2 million ounce business.
Speaker Change: If I could just continue may be too.
Speaker Change: I actually called for you just on la.
Speaker Change: Looking and listening to them and thank you for that slide on page 20.
Speaker Change: About.
Speaker Change: 2 million ounce production profile towards the end of the decade.
Speaker Change: That would assume you have a playbook.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Pit layback that whatever that gets you to the end of 2030.
Speaker Change: We ended the decade, when do you have curlew in.
Speaker Change: Is that a 28 could we again remember.
Speaker Change: <unk> conference call it will be about 100000 ounces.
Speaker Change: Joe feasible.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Thank you right in the zone. There tenure when people have asked this in the past about how we will maintain the 2 million ounces.
Speaker Change: Towards the end of the decade, I basically say.
Speaker Change: There is four things two of which we just keep doing what we're doing.
Speaker Change: We keep mining is a claim we keep mining at Bald mountain.
Speaker Change: That's the two that we keep doing.
Speaker Change: And there'll be two other things that are new better new that we haven't been doing.
Speaker Change: And that is currently in phase <unk>.
Speaker Change: And as you've seen with the results from the drilling that they are moving along very nicely. We're really happy with how they are going well why don't you talk a little bit about timing and how those how those come in yes I think.
Speaker Change: You can see we've been expanding that resource at currently we're in a very positive way, which was the goal a couple of years ago.
Speaker Change: Got into that point, where we're more comfortable on the economics and the margins and returns. There is one remaining permitting action that we spoke of spoken about before which is really just getting the permit to increase the height of the tailings storage facility when we convert to dry stack tailings. The rest of our permits are in place so that.
Speaker Change: That is a bit of a milestone permanent in terms of controlling the timeline after that we've already we're already at the ore body underground we're already in a pretty good position to get into development fairly quickly.
Speaker Change: So we do.
Speaker Change: We haven't released specific guidance, yet, but 2020 as a reasonable assumption on on how we go through the permitting and construction costs.
Speaker Change: Okay, and then how do you think about then external opportunities.
Speaker Change: And channel.
Speaker Change: <unk> got a lot to remind.
Speaker Change: And then obviously, we've got Lobo Marte K Max.
Great that will coming in towards the end of the decade and into the 2030.
Speaker Change: How do you look at your.
Speaker Change: <unk> external opportunities would you say you're more focused on production.
Speaker Change: Great.
Speaker Change: Development.
Speaker Change: Thanks, Joe.
Okay.
Speaker Change: Look I think the key here is we don't feel under pressure to go out and do anything.
Speaker Change: Necessarily Deb.
Speaker Change: Gain production immediately we're very happy with our internal.
Pipeline portfolio.
Speaker Change: That allows us.
Speaker Change: Allows us to be patient and really look for value, whether it's in an earlier stage VR and AR production.
Speaker Change: When I get the M&A question, which I get a lot I mean I.
Speaker Change: I think the history speaks a lot for what we have demonstrated in terms of discipline.
Speaker Change: I mean really if you go back and you look at what acquisitions have we done.
Speaker Change: In the last 10 years there may.
Maybe three or four.
Speaker Change: We did round mountain bald back in 2015.
Speaker Change: Bolt ons synergistic.
Speaker Change: We purchased some power plants in Brazil in 2018.
Speaker Change: Man show peak oil in 2020.
Speaker Change: So were very careful we do look at external opportunities, but we have to see the value proposition.
And if we do well we will move forward, but.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: It's challenging sometimes to find those value opportunities.
Speaker Change: Great Fair, obviously was the last time, we did an external debt.
Speaker Change: We purchased that in 'twenty, two and we're extremely pleased and we'd love to find more of those access, but we're not we're not feeling under pressure.
Speaker Change: We'll have to do something just for the sake of maybe getting higher production.
Speaker Change: I appreciate that I guess, one day you thought.
Speaker Change: There is opportunities for you to add additional inventory.
Speaker Change: Inventory like beyond 2030, whether that makes sense for you.
Speaker Change: Okay. Good.
Speaker Change: Good question.
Speaker Change: Look I think.
Speaker Change: Hi.
Speaker Change: Sometimes get the question.
Speaker Change: I am not.
Speaker Change: Worried about.
Speaker Change: Towards the end of the decade, when im thinking about the future of the company we are.
Speaker Change: We're thinking about mid <unk> and beyond.
Speaker Change: That's kind of a timeline we're thinking about.
Speaker Change: Yes, there is good opportunities to add we think is.
Speaker Change: Quality.
Speaker Change: To the inventory, we will look at it.
But its quality and again I would say.
Speaker Change: One of the advantages we've had over the last few years in terms of our cost structure is a lot of the newer stuff that we have brought on.
Speaker Change: And some of it.
Speaker Change: Some of this is internal whether it was the restart of la coipa or the ramping up of the mill of cash yes, we.
Speaker Change: Been bringing on quality, meaning.
Speaker Change: Grades and those better grades have driven our margins, which has been a natural offset.
Speaker Change: Some of the cost pressures.
Speaker Change: Maybe some some others have faced.
Speaker Change: Okay. If I could just squeeze one last question in for Jonathan can.
Speaker Change: Can you just give me an update on the two remaining permits that we require.
Speaker Change: On the AE X program and.
Speaker Change: Negotiations with first nation.
Speaker Change: How that's going.
Speaker Change: What's the timeline of that.
Speaker Change: Sure John Yes, So let me.
Speaker Change: We'll start with your next question.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: To repeat remaining permits that you're referring to.
Speaker Change: One is what we refer to as.
Speaker Change: And industrial sewage treatment in construction improvement, which we call <unk>.
Speaker Change: We stance, where environmental compliance approval.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: We don't obviously, you need that today, but where we're targeting to get that sort of later in the spring and the second outstanding Permian.
Speaker Change: Operations permitted take water.
Speaker Change: Which again, we don't require today, but we're targeting.
Speaker Change: The back half of 2025 later in 2020 for that particular permit we have to be clear we have everything we need.
Speaker Change: For our current <unk> activities and.
Speaker Change: <unk> received for those permits to date.
Speaker Change: On the.
Speaker Change: Hi.
Speaker Change: On the.
Speaker Change: First nations question that you asked about.
Speaker Change: Relations there are very strong.
Speaker Change: I won't go into a lot of detail on that one but we are in the midst of.
Speaker Change: Negotiations with them on our on our project agreement or what's more commonly called <unk>.
Speaker Change: We've exchanged drafts.
Speaker Change: Economic discussions that's going well.
Speaker Change: And we are we are.
Speaker Change: We're sort of targeting.
Speaker Change: The back half of 2025 to get something done there and last but not least obviously on the on the main project.
Speaker Change: We're in the midst of our federal.
Speaker Change: Permitting process.
Speaker Change: Which involves the filing at what we call an impact statement and again, where we're <unk>.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: The back half of 2025 to get to get that done.
Speaker Change: Does that answer your questions.
Speaker Change: Just on that negotiation with first nations would it be safe to assume that all of the negotiations I guess sort of the normal and classic.
Speaker Change: Items that are being done at <unk> and other.
Speaker Change: Many areas in the Red Lake District lets say that are normal to what's been now already.
Speaker Change: Yes, yes, yes, yes, there is.
Speaker Change: So we're not we're not sort of Trailblazing hear word.
Speaker Change: You would expect to see the customary provisions that you would typically see in an IV and we're discussing those.
Speaker Change: Our negotiations.
Speaker Change: Okay, great. Thank you and good luck.
Thanks Danielle.
Speaker Change: Thank you and there are no further questions at this time I would like to turn it back to Paul Rollinson for closing remarks.
Speaker Change: Great well thanks operator.
Speaker Change: Thanks, everyone for dialing in this morning.
Speaker Change: Look forward to catching up with you all in person in the coming weeks and months. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you presenters, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you all for joining you may now disconnect.
Speaker Change: Please wait the conference will begin shortly.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Understood.
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Speaker Change: [music].