Q4 2024 TriMas Corp Earnings Call

Greetings welcome to try nice fourth quarter and full year 'twenty 'twenty four earnings conference call. At this time all participants are in a listen only mode. A question and answer session will follow the final presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance. Please dial star zero on your telephone keypad.

Operator: Greetings. Welcome to TriMas fourth quarter and full year 2024. At this time all participants are in a listen This is a question-and-answer session.

Operator: We'll follow the formal process. If anyone should require operator assistance, please dial star zero on your telephone. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

Speaker Change: Mind you. This conference is being recorded its now my pleasure to introduce Sherry Lauderback, Vice President of Investor Relations. Thank you you may begin.

Sherry Lauderback: It is now my pleasure to introduce Sherry Lauderback, Vice President, Investor Relations. Thank you. Thank you and welcome to TriMas Corporation's fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings call. Participating on the call today are Thomas Amato, TriMas' President and CEO, and Scott Mell, our Chief Financial Officer. We will provide a prepared remark on our fourth quarter and full year results and 2025 outlook, and then we will open up the call for questions. In order to assist with the review of our results, we have included today's press release and presentation on our company website at www.trimas.com under the Investor section.

Speaker Change: Thank you and welcome to try not to corporations fourth quarter and full year 'twenty 'twenty four earnings call participating on the call today are Thomas Amato, Trimas, as president and CEO and Scott <unk>, Chief Financial Officer, We will provide our prepared remarks on our fourth quarter and full year results and 2025 outlook and then we will open up the.

Speaker Change: Call for questions.

Speaker Change: In order to assist with the review of our results. We have included in today's press release and presentation on our company website at <unk> Dot com under the investors section. In addition, a replay of this call will be available later today by calling 8776606853 with the meeting I D.

Operator: In addition, a replay of this call will be available later today by calling 877-660-6853 with a meeting ID of 137-443-26.

Speaker Change: 1374 for three to six.

Sherry Lauderback: Before we get started, I would like to remind everyone that our comments today may contain forward-looking statements that are inherently subject to a number of risks and uncertainties. please refer to our most recent Form 10-K to be filed later today for a list of factors that could cause our results to differ from those anticipated in any forward-looking statements. Also, we undertake no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements except as required by law. We would also direct your attention to our website where considerably more information may be found.

Speaker Change: Before we get started I would like to remind everyone that our comments today may contain forward looking statements that are inherently subject to a number of risks and uncertainties.

Speaker Change: Refer to our most recent Form 10-K to be filed later today for a list of factors that could cause our results to differ from those anticipated in any forward looking statement also we undertake no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward looking statements except as required by law.

Speaker Change: We would also direct your attention to our website where considerably more information may be found.

Sherry Lauderback: In addition, we would like to refer you to the appendix in our press release or our present presentation for the reconciliations between GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures used during this call.

Speaker Change: In addition, we would like to refer to you refer you to the appendix in our press release or presentation for the reconciliations between GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures used during this call today the discussion on the call regarding our financial results will be on an adjusted basis, excluding the impact of special items.

Sherry Lauderback: Today, the discussion on the call regarding our financial results will be on an adjusted basis excluding the impact of special items. With that, I'll turn the call over to Tom Amato. Tom?

Speaker Change: With that I'll turn the call over to Tom Amato Tom.

Thomas Amato: Thank you, Sherry. Good morning and welcome to TriMas' quarterly earnings call. Let's turn to slide three. As we reflect on the final quarter of 2024, which was a better comparison quarter to the prior year than the first three quarters, we experienced several positive trends in both financial and non-financial key performance indicators across all of our business lines. Furthermore, we believe these trends provide a solid foundation for 2025 and position us well for the future. In each of our businesses, and in different ways, given the variability we often experience with our diverse set of end markets, we have taken meaningful actions aimed at improving customer engagement and conversion rates, enabling us to capitalize on growth and new opportunities going forward.

Tom Amato: Thank you Sherry good morning, and welcome to <unk> quarterly earnings call.

Speaker Change: Let's turn to slide three.

Speaker Change: As we reflect on the final quarter of 2024, which was a better comparison quarter to the prior year than the first three quarters, we experienced several positive trends in both financial and Nonfinancial key performance indicators across all of our business lines. Furthermore, we believe these trends provide.

Speaker Change: The solid foundation for 2000, 22025 and position us well for the future.

Speaker Change: And each of our businesses and in different ways, given the variability we often experience with our diverse set of end markets. We have taken meaningful actions aimed at improving customer engagement and conversion rates, enabling us to capitalize on growth and new opportunities going forward.

Thomas Amato: Within TriMas packaging, our largest segment representing 55% of total sales, we achieved organic growth of nearly 10% compared to the prior year quarter. This growth was driven by our dispensing product lines, particularly for products used in the beauty and personal care end market. Due to the snapback in demand compared to 2023 levels, we have had to make investments in assembly lines and injection molding machines throughout the year and tooling refurbishments more specifically in the fourth quarter, all to accommodate increasing volume. As a result, in locations where we have had practical capacity constraints in prior quarters, we are now starting to see improvements in overall equipment effectiveness, or OEE, and which, in our experience, is a leading indicator to improved financial performance as we move forward.

Speaker Change: Within <unk> packaging, our largest segment representing 55% of total sales, we achieved organic growth of nearly 10% compared to the prior year quarter.

Speaker Change: This growth was driven by our dispensing product lines, particularly for products used in the beauty and personal care end markets do.

Due to the snapback in demand compared to 2023 levels, we've had to make investments in assembly lines and injection molding machines throughout the year and tooling refurbishments more specifically in the fourth quarter all to accommodate increasing volumes.

Speaker Change: As a result.

Speaker Change: In locations, where we have had practical capacity constraints and prior quarters. We are now starting to see improvements in overall equipment effectiveness or OA and which in our experience is a leading indicator to improved financial performance as we move forward.

Thomas Amato: And in fact, we're off to a nice start in 2025 within our packaging group, as well as in all of our business platforms. Within the TriMas Aerospace Group, which represents 32% of total sales, we have made investments and have taken numerous actions to improve upon OEE on key production lines at several locations. These manufacturing excellence initiatives, coupled with concluded commercial actions, are allowing TriMas to benefit from a recovering aerospace and defense market. We have been seeing this throughout the year, but it is worth highlighting the significant improvement in the segment EBITDA rates compared to the prior year period.

Speaker Change: And in fact, we're off to a nice start in 2025 within our packaging group as well as in all of our business platforms.

Speaker Change: Within the <unk> Aerospace group, which represents 32% of total sales we have made investments and have taken numerous actions to improve upon OE E on key production lines at several locations.

Speaker Change: These manufacturing excellence initiatives, coupled with concluded commercial actions are allowing <unk> to benefit from a recovering aerospace and defense market.

Speaker Change: We have been seeing this throughout the year, but it is worth highlighting the significant improvement in the segment EBITDA rates compared to the prior year period.

Thomas Amato: Importantly, we are entering 2025 with a strong order book and expect momentum in this segment to continue throughout the year. Regarding our specialty product segment, which represents 13% of total sales, we have successfully closed on the sale of our aero engine business as announced at the end of January.

Speaker Change: Importantly, we are entering 2025 with a strong order book and expect momentum in this segment to continue throughout the year.

Speaker Change: Regarding our specialty products segment, which represents 13% of total sales we have successfully closed on the sale of air Air Our Arrow engine business.

Speaker Change: At the end of January.

Thomas Amato: So for simplicity, I will limit my comments today to North Cylinder only for this segment. As we anticipated, we believe Norris Cylinder is now at the bottom of the significant destocking demand trough that we experienced throughout 2024. North cylinder sales for the quarter were slightly lower than the prior year quarter, down about six and a half percent. And importantly, given the dynamics in the cylinder market, we have taken additional cost restructuring actions to operate with improved performance at lower annualized sales rates as we move into 2025. Scott will discuss this in more detail as we believe Norris Cylinder will now begin to contribute more to TriMas' absolute earnings in 2025.

Speaker Change: So for simplicity I will limit my comments today to Norris cylinder only for this segment.

Speaker Change: As we anticipated we believe Norris cylinder is now at the bottom of the significant destocking demand trough that we experienced throughout 2024.

Speaker Change: Norris cylinder sales for the quarter were slightly lower than the prior year quarter down about six 5%.

Speaker Change: Importantly, given the dynamics in the cylinder market, we have taken additional cost restructuring actions to operate with improved performance at lower annualized sales rates as we move into 2025.

Speaker Change: Scott will discuss this in more detail as we believe doors cylinder will now begin to contribute more to <unk> absolute earnings in 2025.

Thomas Amato: It is important to note that as related to Norris Cylinder in the fourth quarter, the drag on operating income compared to the prior year quarter was just over $2.2 million. And given our scale, this would translate to approximately $0.04 per share in the fourth quarter, as anticipated recovery in customer capital expenditures, which drive cylinder demand, was deferred to 2025. While this was the largest Pacific driver impact in the fourth quarter, it also importantly highlights the prospective benefit to TriMas as Norris Cylinder begins its recovery, even on a modest sales base in 2025.

Speaker Change: It is important to note that as it related to north sooner in the fourth quarter. The drag on operating income compared to the prior year quarter was just over $2 2 million.

Speaker Change: And given our scale this would translate to approximately <unk> <unk> per share in the fourth quarter as anticipated recovery in customer capital expenditures, which drives cylinder demand was deferred to 2025.

Speaker Change: While this was the largest specific driver impacting the fourth quarter. It also importantly highlights the prospective benefit to try mass as Norris cylinder begins its recovery even on a modest sales space in 2025.

Thomas Amato: Let's turn to slide four and I will cover some forward planning items. Before reviewing the items on this slide, it is important to note that TriMas enters 2025 with a strong balance sheet and low leverage. This characteristic enables TriMas to continue to invest in growth and factory floor improvements in our businesses, return capital to shareholders through share buybacks and dividends, and augment organic growth through bolt-on size acquisition. As announced previously and noted on this slide, we completed the acquisition of GMT Aerospace, a Germany-based manufacturer of tie rods used in a wide range of structural aerospace applications.

Speaker Change: Let's turn to slide four and I'll cover some forward planning items.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Before reviewing the items on this slide is important to note that <unk> introduced 2025 with a strong balance sheet and low leverage. This characteristic enables try and we have to continue to invest in growth and factory floor improvements in our businesses return capital to shareholders through share buybacks and dividends.

Speaker Change: And augment organic growth through bolt on size acquisitions.

Speaker Change: As announced previously and noted on this slide we completed the acquisition of GMT Aerospace a Germany based manufacturer of tie rods use at a wide range of structural aerospace applications.

Thomas Amato: Annualized sales are approximately €22 million, with sales to Airbus representing nearly 50% of its revenue. Importantly, this acquisition adds the first manufacturing location in Europe to our TriMas Aerospace Corp. A critical strategic step to leverage and grow our full product range of fasteners and other engineered products within the Euro aerospace market. We are excited to complete this acquisition and welcome the GMT Aerospace team to the TriMas family of business.

Speaker Change: Annualized sales are approximately $22 million euro with sales to Airbus, representing nearly 50% of its revenue importantly, this acquisition adds the first manufacturing location in Europe to our Trimas Aerospace group, a critical strategic step to leverage and grow our full product range of fasteners.

Speaker Change: And other engineered products within the Euro aerospace market.

Speaker Change: We are excited to complete this acquisition and welcome the GMT aerospace team to the <unk> family of businesses.

Thomas Amato: Also as announced, we have completed the sale of our aero engine business. This action facilitates TriMas' exit of direct sales to the oil and gas end market, which has been a priority for some time. The proceeds from the aero engine sale of about $22 million will be used, along with drawing on our credit line, to pay for GMT Aerospace, which had a purchase price of about $35 million. Importantly, these two corporate development actions provide a portfolio shift in sales and earnings, reducing the impact of the Specialty Products Group on TriMas.

Speaker Change: Also as announced we have completed the sale of our Arrow engine business. This action facilitates <unk> exit of direct sales to the oil and gas end market, which has been a priority for some time.

Speaker Change: The proceeds from the Aero engine sale of about $22 million will be used along with triangle drawing on our credit line to pay for GMT Aerospace, which had a purchase price of about $35 million.

Speaker Change: Importantly, these two corporate development actions provide a portfolio shift in sales and earnings reducing the impact of the specialty products group I'm try mass.

Thomas Amato: And finally... as we continue to take actions to increase the intrinsic value of all of TriMas' businesses. and specifically, in this example, our TriMas Aerospace. We are pleased to announce that we have gained meaningful wallet share of future fastener sales to Airbus under a new multi-year contract, which will begin to ramp up in 2026. The Aerospace team has been working on this project for the better part of a year and we are excited to expand our trading relationship with Airbus, which we believe will provide an opportunity for growth above normal market demand levels for the coming years.

Speaker Change: And finally.

Speaker Change: As we continue to take actions to increase the intrinsic value of all of <unk> businesses and specifically in this example, our <unk> aerospace business. We are pleased to announce that we have gained meaningful wallet share of future fast our sales to Airbus under a new multiyear contract.

Speaker Change: Which will begin to ramp up in 2026.

Speaker Change: The aerospace team has been working on this project for the better part of the year and we are excited to expand our trading relationship with Airbus, which we believe will provide an opportunity for growth above normal market demand levels for the coming years.

Thomas Amato: Turning to slide 5, I will now briefly highlight key financial data from Q4 compared to the prior year quarter. As noted previously, the fourth quarter was, in many cases, a better comparison quarter to the same period in 2023, certainly as compared to prior quarters in 2024. With that said, consolidated sales were up 8.8 percent, driven by solid organic growth within our packaging and aerospace segment. Segment EBITDA was up $1 million in the quarter at $42.2 million, or 18.5% of sales. However, when accounting for enterprise-wide IT costs that were reallocated to our segments in 2024, segment EBITDA was up by nearly $3 million for the quarter, despite specialty products being lower in EBITDA by $3.3 million.

Speaker Change: Turning to slide five I will now briefly highlight key financial data from Q4 compared to the prior year quarter.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: As noted previously the fourth quarter was in many cases, a better comparison quarter to the same period in 2023, certainly as compared to prior quarters in 2024.

Speaker Change: With that said consolidated sales were up eight 8% driven by solid organic growth within our packaging and aerospace segments.

Speaker Change: Segment, EBITDA was up $1 million in the quarter at $42 2 million or 18, 5% of sales. However, when accounting for enterprise wide <unk> costs that were reallocated to our segments. In 2024 segment EBITDA was up by nearly $3 million for the quarter.

Speaker Change: Despite specialty products being lower and EBITDA by $3 3 million.

Thomas Amato: As noted previously, we finished the year with a strong balance sheet despite cash use to return capital to shareholders through share buybacks and dividends, and with net leverage slightly reduced from the prior quarter. Net income was also up in the quarter and EPS was higher compared to the prior year quarter by 13.2% at $0.43 per share. I would also like to highlight that while our fourth quarter is typically a reduced profit quarter compared to the third quarter, we are reporting today a comparable EPS level in Q4 as compared to Q3, which we believe is an important sequential performance indicator as we move into 2025.

Speaker Change: As noted previously we finished the year with a strong balance sheet. Despite cash used for return cash use to return capital to shareholders through share buybacks and dividends and with net leverage slightly reduced from the prior quarter.

Speaker Change: Net income was also up in the quarter and EPS was higher compared to the prior year quarter by 13, 2% at 43 per share.

Speaker Change: I would also like to highlight that while our fourth quarter is typically a reduced profit quarter compared to the third quarter. We are reporting today are comparable EPS level in Q4 as compared to Q3, which we believe is an important sequential performance indicator as we move into 2020.

Speaker Change: Five.

Thomas Amato: Let's turn to slide six. Before turning the call over to Scott, who will take us through specific segment performance and outlook, slide six highlights full year results. As discussed throughout the year, given the significant de-stocking we experienced within our Norris Cylinder business, the normalized EBTA gains we have made within our TriMas packaging and aerospace segments were more than offset by the significant earnings decline within our specialty product segment in 2024 as compared to 2023. With that said, we continue to believe that it's important to highlight the higher quality of earnings in our segment-level EBITDA mix, driven by our largest business platforms, packaging and aerospace.

Speaker Change: Let's turn to slide six.

Speaker Change: Before turning the call over to Scott, who will take us through specific segment performance and outlook slide six highlights full year results as discussed throughout the year given the significant destocking, we experienced within our north cylinder business. The normalized EBIT EBITDA gains we have made within our <unk> packaging and aerospace segments were more than us.

Speaker Change: Set by the significant earnings decline within our specialty products segment in 2024 as compared to 2023.

Speaker Change: With that said, we continue to believe that it is important to highlight the higher quality of earnings in our segment level EBITDA mix driven by our largest business platforms packaging and aerospace I will now turn the call over to Scott.

Scott Mell: I will now turn the call over to Scott. Thanks, Tom. Let's turn to slide 7 and I will begin my review of our segment results starting with TriMas packaging. For the fourth quarter, net sales were $123 million, as compared to $114 million for the prior year quarter, an increase of 8.4%. Organic sales increased almost 10% during the quarter, while the unfavorable impact of foreign currency translation reduced sales by 1.7 million. This meaningful year-over-year sales improvement was led primarily by increased demand for our products serving the beauty and personal care and home care end markets, with both experiencing more than 25% year-over-year organic sales growth.

Scott: Thanks, Tom, Let's turn to slide seven and I will begin my review of our segment results starting with dry mass packaging.

Scott: For the fourth quarter net sales were $123 million as compared to $114 million for the prior year quarter, an increase of eight 4% organic sales increased almost 10% during the quarter, while the unfavorable impact of foreign currency translation reduced sales by $1 7 million.

Scott: This meaningful year over year sales improvement was led primarily by increased demand for our products, serving the beauty and personal care and home care end markets with both experiencing more than 25% year over year organic sales growth.

Scott Mell: We also continue to experience strong sales growth for our products serving the industrial end market with close to 11% organic growth for the quarter and 16% organic sales growth for the full year. Adjusted operating profit for the quarter was $15.7 million, or 12.8% of sales. which is 150 basis points lower than the previous year period. This year-over-year decline is primarily attributable to the allocation of $1.4 million of information technology costs, which did not occur in Q4 of 2023. higher depreciation expense, and the impact of foreign currency exchanges. When adjusting for these specific items, operating margin would have been flat year over year at approximately 14.3%, which is reflective of the actions we've taken throughout 2024 to address capacity constraints related to higher demand for certain of our dispensing products.

Scott: We also continue to experience strong sales growth for our products, serving the industrial end market with close to 11% organic growth for the quarter and 16% organic sales growth for the full year.

Scott: Adjusted operating profit for the quarter was $15 7 million or 12, 8% of sales.

Scott: 150 basis points lower than the previous year period.

Scott: This year over year decline is primarily attributable to the allocation of $1 $4 million of information technology costs.

Scott: Did not occur in Q4 of 2023.

Scott: Higher depreciation expense and the impact of foreign currency exchange.

Scott: When adjusting for these specific items operating margin would have been flat year over year at approximately 14, 3%.

Scott: Which is reflective of the actions we've taken throughout 2024 to address capacity constraints related to higher demand for certain of our dispensing products.

Scott Mell: Adjusted EBDA was $25 million, or 20.3% of net sales.

Scott: Adjusted EBITDA was $25 million or 23% of net sales.

Scott Mell: Looking forward now for TriMas packages. In 2025, we expect year-over-year sales growth to return closer to a GDP-plus rate, which historically has been between 2 and 4 percent. This reversion from the stronger sales growth we experienced in 2024 is primarily driven by the completion of rebalancing of inventory levels by certain key customers during 2024, along with an expectation of more moderated levels of consumer spending growth in 2025. We do expect TriMas Packaging to deliver year-over-year margin enhancement on account of the moderately higher sales rates, along with improved manufacturing efficiency given the capital investments made in 2024 to adjust capacity pinch points, which Tom mentioned earlier in the call.

Scott: Looking forward now for <unk> packaging in 2025, we expect year over year sales growth to return closer to a GDP plus right, which historically has been between two and 4%.

Scott: This reversion from the strongest sales growth we experienced in 2024 is primarily driven by the completion of rebalancing of inventory levels by certain key customers during 2024.

Scott: Along with an expectation of more moderated levels of consumer spending growth in 2025.

Scott: We do expect <unk> packaging to deliver year over year margin enhancement on account of the moderately higher sales rates along with improved manufacturing efficiencies given the capital investments made in 2024 to adjust capacity pinch points, which Tom mentioned earlier in the call.

Scott Mell: However, given our global footprint and multinational customer base, we, like many other packaging manufacturers, do have exposure to increases in U.S. tariff rates. particularly those from China, which reverted to a higher rate in the second half of 2024 and again to an even higher rate this year under the new administration. While we have captured changes in tariffs that have already been implemented in our outlook for 2025, we are not forecasting any changes in rates with other countries. But there is no certainty at this point as to the timing or size of the tariff increases, if any.

Scott: However, given our global footprint and multinational customer base.

Scott: Like many other packaging manufacturers do have exposure to increases in U S tariff rates, particularly those from China, which reverted to a higher rate in the second half of 2024 and again to an even higher rate this year under the new administration.

Scott: While we have captured changes in tariffs that have already been implemented and our outlook for 2025, we are not forecasting any changes in rates with other countries.

Scott: There is no certainty at this point as to the timing or size of the tariff increases if any we are actively working on both near and long term contingency planning to help mitigate any potential impact to earnings in 2025 and beyond.

Scott Mell: We are actively working on both near and long-term contingency planning to help mitigate any potential impact to earnings in 2025 and beyond.

Scott Mell: Turning to slide 8, I will now provide an update on the TriMas Aerospace 6. Net sales for the corridor increased by more than 14 million, or 22 percent, when compared to the same period a year ago, driven primarily by continuing growth in commercial aircraft production.

Scott: Turning to slide eight I will now provide an update on our China mass aerospace segment.

Scott: Net sales for the quarter increased by more than $14 million or 22% when compared to the same period, a year ago, driven primarily by continuing growth in commercial aircraft production rates strategic.

Scott Mell: and KJ Commercial Action.

Scott: Strategic commercial actions and improved production yields.

Scott Mell: and Improved Production U. In addition, we ended the year with a record-breaking backlog within TriMas aerospace at more than $350 million. Operating profit for the quarter was $10.9 million, or 14% of net sales, which represents a 450 basis point improvement when compared to the previous year period. While we are very pleased with conversion rates during the quarter, we do believe there is incremental margin opportunity within TriMas Aerospace as we continue to invest in manufacturing capacity and factory floor enhancements and see further improvements in supply chain and labor force continuity. The adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $15.4 million or 19.7% of net sales.

Scott: In addition, we ended the year with a record breaking backlog within <unk> aerospace at more than $350 million.

Scott: Operating profit for the quarter was $10 9 million or 14% of net sales.

Scott: This represents a 450 basis point improvement when compared to the previous year period.

Scott: While we are very pleased with conversion rates during the quarter. We do believe there is incremental margin opportunity within try mass aerospace as we continue to invest in manufacturing capacity and factory floor enhancements and see further improvements in supply chain and labor force continuity.

Scott: Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $15 4 million or 19, 7% of net sales.

Scott Mell: For 2025, we expect TriMas Aerospace to continue to experience strong sales growth with low double-digit organic sales growth, which will be further augmented by sales from our recent aerospace acquisition, GMT Aerospace. And as I mentioned earlier in my comments, we also expect year-over-year margin enhancement within TriMas Aerospace as we continue to improve our production yield and benefit from previously completed commercial action.

Scott: For 2025, we expect China's aerospace to continue to experience strong sales growth with low double digit organic sales growth, which will be further augmented by sales from our recent aerospace acquisition GMT aerospace.

Scott: And as I mentioned earlier in my comments, we also expect year over year margin enhancement within <unk> aerospace as we continue to improve our production yield and benefit from previously completed commercial actions.

Scott Mell: Now on slide 9, let's review our specialty product segment. Net sales were $26.6 million as compared to $32 million for the prior year quarter as the industrial cylinders market continues to work down overstocked inventory positions. and to a lesser extent, lower sales of compressors serving the oil and gas industry.

Scott: Now on slide nine let's review our specialty products segment.

Scott: Net sales were $26 6 million as compared to $32 million for the prior year quarter as the industrial cylinders market continues to work down overstocked inventory positions.

Scott: And to a lesser extent lower sales of compressors, serving the oil and gas industry.

Scott Mell: Please note that our results for the quarter do include our recently divested aero engine business, which contributed approximately $3.6 million of sales for the quarter and $19 million for the full year. Operating profit in the quarter was $0.8 million, or 2.9% of net sales, while adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $1.7 million, or 6.5% of net sales. The primary drive is to lower year-over-year margin performance. were lower fixed cost absorption and half a million of allocated IT costs, which did not occur in 2023.

Scott: Please note that our results for the quarter do include our recently divested Arrow engine business, which contributed approximately $3 $6 million of sales for the quarter and $19 million for the full year.

Scott: Operating profit in the quarter was <unk> 8 million or two 9% of net sales while adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $1 7 million or six 5% of net sales.

Scott: The primary drivers of lower year over year margin performance were lower fixed cost absorption and half a million dollars of allocated cost which did not occur in 2023.

Scott Mell: I will also note that our North Cylinders business did complete meaningful structural cost reductions during the second half of 2024, which will provide for improved conversion rates once we see even marginal improvements in demand. Looking forward to Alpenor Cylinder Only. We anticipate flat to slightly increasing sales within the North Cylinder business during the first half of 2025, as customers continue to work through inventory. followed by demand improvements as the year progresses, which we believe will translate to mid-single-digit sales growth for the full year. And as I mentioned earlier in the call, we are starting to see some positive indicators here in early 2025.

Scott: I will also note that our north cylinders business did complete meaningful structural cost reductions during the second half of 2024, which will provide for improved conversion rates.

Scott: Once we see even marginal improvements in demand.

Scott: Looking forward now for Norris cylinder only.

Scott: We anticipate flat to slightly increasing sales within the Norris cylinder business. During the first half of 2025 as customers continue to work through inventories.

Scott: Followed by demand improvements as the year progresses, which we believe will translate to mid single digit sales growth for the full year.

Scott: And as I mentioned earlier on the call we are starting to see some positive indicators here in early 2025.

Scott Mell: including quoting activity and customer inquiries, which lead us to believe that we are now emerging from the cyclical demand trough which Norris has been navigating for the better part of 15 months. Finally, we do expect to see some margin enhancement for NORS in 2025, given the previously completed cost reduction action. bringing production rates into better balance with demand and then with the operating leverage gains from expected incremental volume towards the second half of the year.

Scott: Including quoting activity and customer inquiries, which lead us to believe that we are now emerging from the cyclical demand trough, which Norris has been navigating for the better part of 15 months.

Scott: Finally, we do expect to see some margin enhancement from north in 2025, given the previously completed cost reduction actions.

Scott: Bringing production rates and to better balance with demand and then what's the operating leverage gains from expected incremental volume towards the second half of the year.

Scott Mell: Turning now to slide 10, I will provide a bit of color on our full-year sales and EPS outlook. We expect total consolidated sales growth of 4 to 6% for the full year, which includes the impact of our recently completed acquisition within TriMas Aerospace.

Scott: Turning now to slide 10, I'll provide a bit of color on our full year sales and EPS outlook.

Scott: We expect total consolidated sales growth of 4% to 6% for the full year, which includes the impact of our recently completed acquisition within <unk> Aerospace.

Scott Mell: Please note that our sales comparison includes the full year of Aeroengine in 2024 and only one month of Aeroengine in 2025. Our adjusted earnings per share outlook is $1.70 to $1.85, which at the midpoint would represent an increase of about 7% as compared to the prior year. Consistent with our adjusted EPS outlook, we also anticipate adjusted EBITDA to be approximately 7% year-over-year, or in the $150 to $165 million range.

Scott: Please note that our sales comparison includes a full year of Aero engine in 2024, and the only one month of Aero engine in 2025.

Scott: Our adjusted earnings per share outlook is $1 70 to $1 85, which at the midpoint would represent an increase of about 7% as compared to the prior year.

Scott: Consistent with our adjusted EPS outlook, we also anticipate adjusted EBITDA to be up approximately 7% year over year are in the $150 million to $165 million range.

Scott Mell: as the second half recovery with the North Cylinder and the impact of the GMT aerospace acquisition are anticipated to more than offset the earnings impact from the divestiture of aero engines.

Scott: As the second half recovery within north cylinder and the impact of the GMT Aerospace acquisition are anticipated to more than offset the earnings impact from the divestiture of Arrow engine.

Thomas Amato: At this point, I'd like to turn the call back over to Tom to provide some closing remarks.

Tom Amato: At this point I'd like to turn the call back over to Tom to provide some closing remarks.

Thomas Amato: Tom? Thank you, Scott. Before moving to Q&A, I will conclude our prepared remarks by refreshing the nearest term value creating opportunity set for TriMas. First, we remain excited about the outlook for our two largest business platforms, TriMas Packaging and TriMas Aerospace, which are both participating in recovering markets after challenges in previous years. We are off to a good start in 2025 and anticipate that the These high quality business lines will carry throughout the year and well beyond.

Tom Amato: Thank you Scott before moving to Q&A I will conclude our prepared remarks by refreshing the nearest term value creating opportunity set for <unk>.

Tom Amato: First we remain excited about the outlook for our two largest business platforms, <unk> packaging and <unk> aerospace, which are both participating and recovering markets. After challenges in previous years, we are off to a good start in 2025 and anticipate that the past.

Tom Amato: These high quality business lines will carry throughout the year and well beyond.

Thomas Amato: Next, we continue to take proactive steps to assess opportunities to focus our portfolio of businesses and unlock value. Our actions with the divestiture of AeroEngine and the acquisition of GMT Aerospace are just a few examples of driving a portfolio shift. We also continue to place a priority on building out our TriMas packaging platform through M&A with a focus on the beauty and personal care, food and beverage, and life sciences and markets.

Tom Amato: Next we continue to take proactive steps to assess opportunities to focus our portfolio of businesses and unlock value.

Tom Amato: Our actions with the divestiture of Arrow engine and the acquisition of GMT Aerospace are just a few examples of driving a portfolio shift.

Tom Amato: We also continue to place a priority on building out our <unk> packaging platform through M&A with a focus on the beauty and personal care food and beverage and life Sciences and markets and finally, while the north cylinder business experienced significant challenges in 2024, we have already completed many actions that look.

Thomas Amato: And finally, while the North Cylinder business experienced significant challenges in 2024, we have already completed many actions that we expect will benefit us as demand recovers throughout 2025. As Scott noted, even a modest demand recovery should result in much improved conversion rates given the cost restructuring we completed in the second half of 2024 for this business.

Tom Amato: We expect will benefit us as demand recovers throughout 2025 as Scott noted, even a modest demand recovery should result in much improved conversion rates given the cost restructuring we completed in the second half of 2024 for this business I would like to again, thank our investors for their continued interest and support and we will.

Sherry Lauderback: I would like to again thank our investors for their continued interest and support and will now turn the call back to Sherry. Thanks, Tom.

Tom Amato: I'll turn the call back to Sheri.

Sheri: Thanks, Tom at this point, we'd like to open up the call for questions from analysts.

Operator: At this point, we would like to open up the call for questions from our analysts. Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line. press star 2 if you would like to remove your question from the queue.

Tom Amato: Thank you.

Speaker Change: To ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad, a confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You May press star two if he would like to remove your question from the queue and for participants using speaker equipment. It may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys.

Ken Newman: speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the start Our first question is from Ken Newman with KeyBank Capital Markets. Hey, good morning, guys. Good morning, Ken. Morning.

Speaker Change: Our first question is from Ken Newman with Keybanc capital markets. Please proceed.

Ken Newman: Hey, good morning, guys.

Speaker Change: Good morning, Ken.

Ken Newman: Good morning.

Ken Newman: Um, you know, maybe for my first question, um, can we just go into the margin enhancement comments across the various businesses? Um, I'm just trying to see if there's a way that we can think about or quantify, uh, the implied incremental margins, uh, in each of those businesses in the 25. And, and Scott, I'm sorry if I missed it. I know you gave a little bit of, uh, help on the revenue numbers, uh, apples to apples for the North only business. Um, but could you help us understand what those were for on, on margins in 24?

Ken Newman: Maybe for my first question.

Speaker Change: Can we just go into the margin enhancement comments across the various businesses.

Ken Newman: Just trying to see if there's a way that we can.

Ken Newman: Think about or quantify the implied incremental margins in each of those businesses in the 'twenty five and Scott I'm, sorry, if I missed it I know you gave a little bit of help on the revenue numbers apples to apples for the north only business.

Ken Newman: Could you help us understand of what those were for on margins in 'twenty, four and just how to think about that.

Scott Mell: And just how to think about that, uh, apples to apples in 26, 25, I should say. Yeah, so if we go through packaging, starting with packaging, you know, look, given the incremental sales volume that we're seeing, you know, there's going to be margin uplift, you know, it's going to be... you know, a hundred, 150 basis points. Obviously there's some. macroeconomic activity out there that will impact packaging related to tariff. So, you know, we we believe, as I mentioned on the call, we we believe we've we've captured what we know today. But obviously, you know. The tariff expectations are changing by the day, and so obviously we're very active in assessing the impact to the outlook.

Ken Newman: The apples in 'twenty six 'twenty five ish today.

Ken Newman: Yeah. So.

Ken Newman: We go through packaging shining the packaging.

Ken Newman: Look given the incremental sales volume that we're seeing.

Ken Newman: There's going to be margin uplift.

Ken Newman: It's going to be.

Ken Newman: 100, 150 basis points.

Ken Newman: Obviously there is some.

Ken Newman: Macroeconomic activity out there that will impact packaging related to tariff so.

Ken Newman: We believe as I mentioned on the call. We believe we've captured what we know today.

Ken Newman: But obviously the.

Ken Newman: Yeah.

Ken Newman: The tariff expectations are changing by the day and so obviously, we're very active in assessing the impact of the outlook.

Scott Mell: If you look at aerospace, again, I think the margin enhancement there is going to be a bit better than what we see in packaging, just given that backlog and some of the strategic pricing actions we've taken over the last 18 months. I think that one's going to be 150 to 200 basis points is what I'm expecting for that business. And then Norris Cylinder, again, if you look at it on a standalone basis, 24 versus 25, again, most of this is going to be second half of 2025 is our expectation as we look at the order patterns.

Ken Newman: If you look at aerospace.

Ken Newman: I think the margin enhancement, there is going to be a bit better than.

Ken Newman: What we see in packaging, just given that backlog and some of the strategic pricing actions, we've taken over the last 18 months.

Ken Newman: That one is going to be.

Ken Newman: 150 to 200 basis points is what I am expecting.

Ken Newman: For that business, and then Norris Norris cylinder again.

Ken Newman: You look at it on a standalone basis 24 versus 25 again most of this is going to be second half of 2025 is our expectation as we look at the order patterns, but again, we've taken some meaningful structural cost reductions there.

Scott Mell: But again, we've taken some meaningful structural cost reductions there. And so the expectation is another 100, 150 basis points if the sales levels come in where we expect them to be.

Ken Newman: And so the expectation is another 150 basis points.

Ken Newman: If the sales levels come in where we expect them to be.

Scott Mell: Alright, that's very helpful. Maybe one more clarification on the margin slot for packaging. I know you had mentioned being able to execute and mitigate around some tariffs this year. Was there a margin price cost impact on tariffs and how quickly can you move if there are further moves from here?

Got it that's very helpful. Maybe one more clarification on the margin side for packaging.

Ken Newman: I know you had mentioned being able to execute and mitigate arounds in tariffs. This year was there a margin price cost impact on tariffs and how quickly can you move.

Ken Newman: If there are further moves from here.

Scott Mell: Yeah, well let me, that's a good question and I think if we step back, one of the challenges that exists with the noise around tariffs is the complete uncertainty. So when we see a tariff go in and we feel there's a permanent nature to it versus sort of a more temporal negotiating tactic, we have the ability to move relatively quickly commercially to seek some recovery. May not be 100% across all of our product lines, but we've been pretty successful over the past year with a fair amount of recovery. That being said, the longer term impact from tariffs is where we manufacture our products and where I think TriMas packaging has a great position is our manufacturing locations that are situated around the world.

Ken Newman: Yeah, well, let me that's a good question.

Ken Newman: I think if we step back one of the challenges that exist with the noise around tariffs.

Ken Newman: Is is the complete uncertainty so when.

Ken Newman: When we see a tariff go in and we feel there is a permanent nature to it first versus sort of a.

Ken Newman: A more temporal negotiating tactic.

Ken Newman: We have the ability to move relatively quickly commercially.

Ken Newman: Commercially to seek some recovery may not be 100% across all of our product lines, but we've been pretty successful.

Ken Newman: Over the past year.

Ken Newman: With a fair amount of recovery.

Ken Newman: That being said the longer term impact from tariffs is where we manufacture our products and where I think try mass packaging has a.

Ken Newman: Great position is our manufacturing locations that are situated around the world.

Scott Mell: And if we're just talking about the U.S., we have available manufacturing floor space in the U.S. and we are able to situate productive assets, relocate productive assets from one part of the world into another if we need to. But that typically would take us 12 to 18 months, perhaps even longer in some cases, and it's pretty disruptive. The point I want to make is the near term mitigation effect would be on the commercial front, and then on a long term basis, we have the ability to navigate through a more permanent tariff change through where we manufacture our products.

Ken Newman: And if we're just talking about the U S. We have available manufacturing floor space in the U S and.

Ken Newman: We are able to situate productive assets relocate productive assets from one part of the world into another if we need to but that typically can would take US 12 to 18 months, perhaps even longer in some cases.

Ken Newman: And it's pretty disruptive the point I want to make is the near term mitigation effect would be on the commercial front and then on a long term basis, we have the ability to navigate through a.

Ken Newman: More permanent tariff change through where we manufacture our products.

Scott Mell: Understood. That's helpful.

Ken Newman: Understood. That's helpful. Maybe if I could just ask one more for my follow up here.

Ken Newman: Maybe if I could just ask one more for my follow-up here.

Ken Newman: Look, we've seen a lot of news here in the last quarter around management and board transitions. Tom, I know you're going to be stepping down here at the end of next quarter. Any update on how the replacement search is going? And then, you know, in addition to that, I know it sounds like the company's taking a bit more of a pointed approach towards what the forward portfolio looks like. When you think about each of those businesses and where we are in the cycle today, do you or the board have a preference of which of those segments makes the most sense in dealing with first?

Ken Newman: We've seen a lot of news to you in the last quarter.

Ken Newman: <unk> management and board transition, Tom I know.

Ken Newman: Youre going to be stepping down here at the end of next quarter any update on how the replacement searches going and then in addition to that.

Ken Newman: It sounds like the company is taking a bit more of a pointed approach towards the what the Ford portfolio looks like.

Ken Newman: When you think about each of those businesses and where we are in the cycle today.

Ken Newman: Do you or the board have a preference of which of those segments makes the most sense and dealing with first.

Thomas Amato: Yeah, let me take your question sort of in reverse order, if I may. First, the point I'd like to make is, as we presented last quarter and again this quarter, we have two business platforms that, in my opinion, are extremely valuable. And the intrinsic value of those platforms are fantastic. Certainly relative to our market cap. And the board is well aware of that, and the board is looking at, with advisors they have brought on, what is the best assessment to unlock the highest value for all of our shareholders as we move forward? So I won't comment any more on that, except to say that, from a management perspective, you know, we have the ability to affect the intrinsic value of our businesses, and we feel like they're in phenomenal positions.

Ken Newman: Yes, let me let me take your question sort of in reverse order if I may 1st the point I would like to make is as we presented last quarter and again this quarter.

Ken Newman: We have two business platforms that.

Ken Newman: My opinion are extremely valuable.

Ken Newman: The intrinsic value of those of those platforms are.

Ken Newman: Fantastic.

Ken Newman: Tastic certainly relative to our market cap.

Ken Newman: And the board is well aware of that and the board is looking at with.

Ken Newman: With advisors they have brought on.

Ken Newman: What is the best assessment to unlock the highest value for all of our shareholders. As we move forward. So I won't comment any more on that except to say that from a management perspective.

Ken Newman: We have the ability to affect the intrinsic value of our businesses and we feel like third phenomenal positions and I would even say.

Thomas Amato: And I would even say, you know, we talked a lot about Norris Cylinder, you know, unfortunately throughout the year because of what they went through. was not a function of Norris Cylinder specifically, that was the market. But when you consider the market position of Norris Cylinder as the only type one steel manufacturer in the U.S. and you overlay with that the issues surrounding imported goods, sort of protecting U.S. manufacturers, Norris is only going to get better. It may take a few more quarters because Frankly, a cylinder is not a consumable item. So when a customer buys too many cylinders, you know, it has to go through the cycle of getting used.

Ken Newman: We talked a lot about norris cylinder unfortunately throughout the year because of what they went through.

Ken Newman: <unk>.

Ken Newman: It was not a function of Norris cylinder, specifically that was the market, but when you consider the.

Ken Newman: <unk>.

Ken Newman: The market position of Norris cylinder as the only type one steel.

Ken Newman: Manufacturer in the U S and you overlay with that the.

Ken Newman: Issues surrounding <unk>.

Ken Newman: Imported goods sort of protecting U S manufacturers Norris is only going to get better. It may take it may take a few more quarters because.

Ken Newman: Frankly, a cylinder is not a consumable items, so when a customer buys too many cylinders. It has to go through the cycle of getting used and that could take a little longer than even we anticipated in 2024, but long term north is a great business, it's going to come back.

Thomas Amato: And that could take a little longer than, you know, even we anticipated in 2024. But long term, Norris is a great business. It's going to come back and it's situated very well for. nice conversion rates as the market comes back. So I just wanna touch upon that relative to the discrete value, intrinsic value of each of our business.

Ken Newman: And it's situated very well for.

Nice conversion rate as the market comes back so I just wanted to touch upon that relative to the discrete value intrinsic value of each of our businesses with respect to with respect to my transition. The board is working on that.

Scott Mell: With respect to my transition, the board is working on that. We're all, as a management team, we remain highly engaged in driving performance, but have nothing to update you on at this point. But the board is continuing to work through its process.

Ken Newman: We're we're all as a management team we remain highly engaged in driving performance, but have nothing to update you on at this point, but the board is continuing to work through its process.

Scott Mell: Scott, do you have anything to add? I was just going to comment on the CEO search. Look, we've got Spencer Stewart. The board is working, rest assured, as quickly as they can to find the right leader. In the meantime, we remain in very good hands with Tom. Understood, thank you.

Scott: Scott do you have anything.

Scott: I was just going to comment on the CEO search.

Speaker Change: We've got Spencer Stuart the board is working.

Speaker Change: Rest assured as quickly as they can to find the right leader.

Speaker Change: In the meantime, we remain in very good hands with Tom.

Scott: Thank you Scott.

Speaker Change: Understood. Thanks.

Hamed Khorsand: Our next question is from Hamed Khorsand. and AWS Finance. Hi, so just mainly on the packaging side, could you just talk about what's going on? You talk about that the business was doing well, you had a lot of demand, but it also sounds like you had a lot of pull-in demand in 24, so it doesn't sound like it was a great year. So I'm just trying to understand the execution and what you're looking at in 25, because the sales just don't add up to what the business should have been doing if everything was looking good versus 23 or 24.

Speaker Change: Our next question from.

Speaker Change: And then Claire Sandwich Dws financial please proceed.

Speaker Change: Hi.

Speaker Change: Mainly on the packaging side could you just talk about.

Speaker Change: What's going on.

Speaker Change: You talk about the business was doing well you had a lot of demand, but it also sounds like you had a lot of pull in demand in 24. So it doesn't sound like it was it was great year. So I'm just trying to understand the execution and what you're looking at in 25 because of the sales just don't add up to what.

Speaker Change: The business should have been doing everything was looking good versus 23 or 22.

Thomas Amato: I'm going to let Scott go through some bridging of packaging because I think it will help bring some clarity to it, but I do want to point out that there was not pull-in demand in 2024 at all. If anything, it's sort of the reverse effect. I think there was under-ordering in 2023, and a snapback, or what sometimes is referred to as a channel fill in 2024 that was in certain discrete product lines where we had capacity constraints. And not to get too technical, but some consumer demand trends have changed over the past few years, and we're seeing a nice amount of growth in a very nice product line for us within packaging.

Speaker Change: I'm going to let Scott go through some bridging of packaging because I think it will help bring some clarity to it but I do want to point out that there was not pull in demand in 2024 at all.

If anything it's sort of a reverse effect I think there was under ordering in 2023.

Speaker Change: And a snapback or what sometimes referred to as a channel fill in 2024.

Speaker Change: That was in certain discrete product lines, where we had capacity constraints and not to get too technical but.

Speaker Change: The consumer some consumer demand trends have changed over the past few years and we're seeing a nice amount of growth in a very nice product line for us within packaging. It's a dispensing line that is a bit higher displacement at for Ccs versus <unk>.

Thomas Amato: It's a dispensing line that is a bit higher displacement at 4 cc's versus 3 cc's, and we have been putting in capacity in 2024. We'll put a little bit more in in 2025, but the trajectory of that growth is not temporal. We see it as continuing well into the future, and as time marches on, we'll improve conversion rates in that dispensing line.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: We have been putting in capacity in 2024, we'll put a little bit more than in 2025 with the trajectory of that growth is not temporal.

We see it as continuing well into the future and as time marches on will improve conversion rates in that dispensing line, so I'm going to pause there and let Scott do some bridging because I think on a comparable basis.

Scott Mell: So I'm going to pause there and let Scott do some bridging, because I think on a comparable basis, when you cut through some of the numbers, packaging was a steadier performer, particularly in the fourth quarter.

Scott: When you cut through some of the numbers.

Scott: Packaging is it was a steadier performer, particularly in the fourth quarter Scott.

Scott Mell: Scott? Yeah, I mean, look, you know, starting with the sales growth, you know, ten and a half percent for the year. I think if you market test that, it'll be top quartile. So obviously, the demand is there from the customer base. I think where your question may be going is around why not why not better conversion? You know, we touched a bit on on the IT allocation, which, again, if you if you carve that out, that's about 100 basis points of EPA year over year. And then to Tom's point, you know, we had about another 150 basis points of of margin erosion related to, you know, the performance of of our our plant that was dealing with the very high snapback demand for many of our dispensing for CC and related type products.

Scott: Yes.

Scott: Starting with the sales growth.

Scott: 5% for the year.

Scott: I think if you market test that and it will be top quartile. So obviously the demand is there from the customer base I think where your question may be going in and around why not why not better conversion.

Scott: We touched a bit on the.

Speaker Change: Allocation, which again, if you carve that out that's about 100 basis points of EBITDA year over year, and then to Toms point.

Speaker Change: We had about another 150 basis points of margin erosion related to.

Speaker Change: The performance of our plant that was dealing with the very high snapback demand for many of our dispensing for cc and related type products in that 150 basis points as across expedited freight to meet customer demand, it's labor inefficiencies.

Scott Mell: And that hundred fifty basis points is across expedited freight to meet customer demand. It's labor inefficiencies and it's it's material cost as well as we just cannot keep up with the demand in the early part of the year. I will say that those those headwinds, if we look at our Q4 performance, have abated quite a bit. And so the effort that the packaging team has put in to addressing that over the years has started to provide dividends here.

Speaker Change: And it's material cost as well as we just cannot keep up with the demand in the early part of the year I will say that those those headwinds if.

Speaker Change: If we look at our Q4 performance have abated quite a bit and so the effort that the packaging team has put in.

Speaker Change: You're addressing that over the year has started to provide dividends here.

Scott Mell: So let me let me pause there for a moment and see if that answered the question.

Speaker Change: So let me let me pause there for a moment and see if that answered the question.

Scott Mell: That does, and my other question was going to be, as far as in packaging, given all these different changes you've done, you know, you were talking about the assembly line and refurbishing equipment, does that inherently just help your margins in 25, and why isn't it more if you're also taking cost actions? Well, yes, short answer is yes. And does help margin also helps us to secure additional growth. And I think you know what, on a on a on a total basis, we've got some costs that have gone up, we continue to see some costs go up with inflation.

Speaker Change: And my other question was going to be as far as in packaging given all these different changes.

Speaker Change: Doug.

Speaker Change: We're talking about the assembly line and refurbishing equipment does that inherently just helped your margins in 'twenty five.

Speaker Change: Why isn't it more.

Speaker Change: Also taking cost actions.

Speaker Change: Well, yes short answer is yes and.

Speaker Change: It does help margin also helps us to secure additional growth.

Speaker Change: And I think.

Speaker Change: On a on a total basis, we've got some costs that have gone up we continue to see some costs go up with inflation and we're offsetting those costs, where we can with manufacturing improvements NCI. So I think net net.

Scott Mell: And we're offsetting those costs where we can with manufacturing improvements, and CI. So I think you know, net net, um, the operating leverage gains that that Scott said, you know, about 150 basis points, year on year, um, you know, I think is sort of a good estimate at this point. Yeah, look, I 100 to 150 basis points of margin enhancement for a packaging business in 2025 is going to be again, top top quartile, arguably, if you if you look at others in the space, I mean, there's quite a number of headwinds out there. And, you know, to deliver 100 to 150 basis points of margin enhancement in light of those, you know, will be a very strong year for our packaging Thank you.

Speaker Change: The operating leverage gains that Scott said about 150 basis points year on year.

Speaker Change: As I think is sort of a good estimate at this point, yes look at 100 to 150 basis points of margin enhancement for our packaging business in 2025 is.

Speaker Change: Going to be again top quartile arguably if you look at others in the space.

Speaker Change: Theres quite a number of headwinds out there and to deliver 100 150 basis points of margin enhancement in light of those.

Speaker Change: We will be a very strong year for our packaging business.

Speaker Change: Alright, thank you.

Hamed Khorsand: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Thomas Amato: With no further questions in the queue, I would like to turn the conference back over to Tom for closing remarks. Okay, thank you again for joining us on our earnings call and we look forward to updating you again next quarter. Thank you. This will conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time and thank you for your participation.

Tom: With no further questions have a queue I would like to turn the conference back over to Tom for closing remarks.

Tom Amato: Okay. Thank you again for joining us on our earnings call and we look forward to updating you again next quarter. Thank.

Tom: Thank you.

Tom: Thank you. This will conclude today's conference you may disconnect. Your lines at this time and thank you for your participation.

Tom: Okay.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Okay.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Yeah.