Q1 2025 Minto Apartment Real Estate Investment Trust Earnings Call
Ludi: Good morning. My name is Ludi, I will be your conference coordinator today. At this time I would like to welcome everyone to the Minto apartment RE- 2025 First Quarter Financial Results Conference call.
Ludi: All lines have been placed on me to prevent any background noise. After it in speakers remarks there will be a question in the answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press the star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
Ludi: If you would like to withdraw your question, please press the store followed by the number two.
Ludi: Before we begin, I want to remind listeners that certain statements about future events made on this conference call are for a looking in nature.
Ludi: Any such information is subject to risk, uncertainties and assumptions that could cause actual results to be very materially. These revered the precautionary statements for looking at information in the REIT's use release, and MDNA dated May 6, 2025 for more information.
During the call, management will also reference 39-9 of her at financial measures.
Ludi: Although the REIT believes this measures provide useful supplemental intermission about its financial performance, they are not recognized measures and do not have standardized meanings under IFRS.
Speaker Change: They see the REIT's MDNA for additional information regarding non-IofRF financial measures, including reconcilations to the nearest IFRF measures. Thank you, Mr. Li, you may begin your conference.
Speaker Change: Thank you, operator, and good morning. With me today are Eddie Foo, Chief Financial Officer, and
Speaker Change: Starting on slide three, on the same property basis we generated year-over-year growth of 2.1% in revenue, given by a 3.7% growth in the unfurrier sweet portfolio.
Speaker Change: This was partially offset by lower occupancy, decreased revenue for furnace suites and the temporary retail vacancy at Minto, Yorkville impacting our commercial revenue.
Speaker Change: Operating expenses also increased in part due to a cold winter [inaudible]
Speaker Change: As a result, same property and a Y remain relatively flat compared to Q1 of last year.
Speaker Change: Normalized FFO and AFFO per unit decreased by 2.9% and 3.3% respectively, reflecting lower
Speaker Change: We were also able to execute on a number of strategic objectives.
Speaker Change: Most notably, in January , we entered the Metroman-Goober market through the acquisition of a 50% managing ownership interest in the Lawn Snail Square property.
Speaker Change: In addition, in January , we flowed on the sale of Castle View, a non-core asset not well for net proceeds of $33.8 million.
Speaker Change: Since quarter end, we received proceeds of $19.4 million from the repayment of the island CDL.
Speaker Change: and executed an upward refinancing generating $9 million of incremental proceeds.
We have remained very active with our NCID program.
Speaker Change: In Q1 2025, we purchased $15.4 million of units under the NCID at a weighted average price of 1324 per unit, which represents a significant discount to book value.
Speaker Change: The NCIV currently remains an attractive use of our capital, given the current discount to nav, and as a result we have purchased an additional $8.4 million
of $13.29 per unit.
Speaker Change: Lastly, we are pleased to share that we have executed a long-term lease for the entire retail space. I mentor your fill comprising over 10,000 square feet.
Speaker Change: The least term is 25 years and these payments will begin in January of 2026.
Speaker Change: The tenant is an experienced restaurant operator called Stock T.C., the collaboration between the owners of both
Speaker Change: At our Yorkville property, they will offer a beautiful restaurant and premium grocery store or a line to the vision created at their first location at Young and Eggington, into one.
Speaker Change: They will invest a significant amount of capital into the space, and it will be an excellent offering for our residents and the surrounding neighbors.
Speaker Change: I'll now turn it over to Eddie to review our first quarter financial and operating performance in greater detail. Eddie?
Thank you, John [inaudible]
Slide 4 provides some key date toes about our operating performers.
Speaker Change: Day property portfolio revenue was $37.7 million, reflecting $2.1% increase compared to Q1 last year.
Speaker Change: This growth was primarily driven by 3.7% rise and unfurnished sleep revenues.
Speaker Change: Supported by a 5.3% increase in average monthly rent for the same property occupied unforeseen portfolio, which reached $2,021 $2,000.
Speaker Change: However, this was partially offset by lower occupancy, reduced revenue from Furner Street, a decreased commercial revenue due to the temporary retail vacancy in Minto Yorkville.
Speaker Change: Kohler Winterweather, an increased property operating cost led to flat-state property NLI, 23.2 million dollars.
Speaker Change: Normalized effortful and ASF will pre-unit, decreased by 2.9% and 3.3% respectively, compared to Q1 miles here.
Normalize A at the full payout ratio was 66.4%
It increased 410 basis points from Q1 last year.
I'm moving out to side side [inaudible]
Speaker Change: This chart highlights the reached steady quarter over quarter growth and average monthly rent.
Speaker Change: Our realized gain on the ESA 5.4% Q1 was down from Q4 2024 as market rents have flattened and turnover remains lower for seats with tenants whose city rents are well below current market rents.
Speaker Change: Moving to slide six, we signed 418 new leases in the first quarter, generating realized gain on lease of 5.4% down from 11.2% in the previous quarter as I highlighted a moment of
Speaker Change: We generated solid increases of 9.9% in Toronto, 8.3% in Ottawa, and 5% in Montreal. A Cadbury Continuous experience, competitive pressure from new supplier that came online in 2024.
Speaker Change: As indicated in the lower table, the embedded gain-to-least potentials at the end of Q1 remain strong in 11.2% or 15.4 million dollars.
Speaker Change: Moving to slide seven, the same property portfolio analyzed turnover was 16% in the first quarter, consisting with Q1 of last year.
Speaker Change: Overall, phoning occupancy for the portfolio increased sequentially by 30 basis points to 96.1% from Q4 2024 as a REIT strategic leasing initiatives effectively to occupancy in the portfolio in recent months.
Speaker Change: Calgary had higher annualized turnover than other geographies, as Alberta is a non-run controlled market.
Speaker Change: Our efforts to drive leasing coupled with the absorption of excess supply in the market resulted in clothing occupancy of 95 from 6% the sequential increase of 250 basis points from Q4, 2020 forward.
Speaker Change: An UI turnover for Ottawa was 15%, which was consistent with last year, while coding occupancy of 96.4% was in line with Q4 2204.
In Toronto, annualized turnover was 16% consisting of last year.
Floating occupancy remains stable from Q4 2024 at 95 percent.
Speaker Change: The Toronto market experienced a large increase in supply in 2024, which has continued into this year
Speaker Change: This has resulted in higher vacancy and the flattening of market rent has that supply as I'm sure.
Speaker Change: We expect supply demand dynamics to improve in this market, once the elevated condo and purpose-built rental supply in the below, which we expect to occur in the next two weeks.
Speaker Change: In Montreal, turnover was 10% while demand was strong, leading to a 70-faceless point in history, imposing a lot to penalties for Q4 2024 to 97.2%
Speaker Change: On site 8, we provide an update on our commercial and Thursday portfolios.
Speaker Change: Revenue from the commercial lease is decreased by 39.8% from T1 last year due to temporary vacancy at Minto, Yorkville.
Speaker Change: As mentioned, we've executed a 25-year lease for this business and anticipate this statement to begin in January , 2026.
The gross annual rents of approximately 800,000 dollars.
Speaker Change: With respect to the furnace sweep portfolio, revenue decreased by 21% to the Q1 last year due to lower average number of occupied suites.
Coupled with a decrease in average monthly rent for policy
Speaker Change: Since Q1 2024, we've converted 21 furtive suites to the unfurnished furtive folials, including 10 at Minto Apt REIT
Speaker Change: We expect to continue reducing a number of further suites, subject to the local Marks conditions for unfurler suites in both downtown Ottawa and France.
Speaker Change: Turning to the operating expense breakdown in Slide 9, same property portfolio operating expenses increased by 6.4% over Q1 2020 primarily due to the increases in property operating and natural gas costs.
Speaker Change: Same property property costs that increase primarily due to annual salary adjustments and higher cleaning costs.
Speaker Change: Property tax and roads due to increase in rates and utility costs were primarily due to increase in natural gas expenses that were attributable to a colder winter coupled with higher rates across the portfolio.
Speaker Change: Moving to sweet positioning in slide 10, we reposition 12 suites in the first quarter, generating an ROI of 9.3%.
Speaker Change: Over the past four quarters, we repositioned 53 suites and generated an average ROI of 9.2 percent.
We expect to reposition 35 to 70 speeds this year.
Speaker Change: On slide 11, we highlight our key depths that to stick on a proportionate share of these.
Speaker Change: Our maturity schedule remains well-bought. At the March 31, 2025, the weighted average term to maturity on our term debt for 5.2 years, with a weighted average affected interest rate of 3.54%.
Speaker Change: At the end of Q1, 99% of our total debt will spits rate.
Total liquidity at quarter end was approximately 194 million dollars.
I'll now turn it back over to John
Speaker Change: On slide 12, we provide the current status of our development pipeline.
Speaker Change: The intensification that risk drove in Leslie York Mills continued to progress with stabilization of the project expected in Q3226 and Q3227 respectively.
Speaker Change: Sabilization dates for both have been conservatively adjusted to accommodate a longer release of period, considering the current competitive leasing environment in Toronto.
Speaker Change: We continue to maintain a disciplined approach to evaluating purchase options on the CDL property.
Speaker Change: In February , we allowed the purchase option on the Highland to lapse in April . We received repayments of $19.4 million related to this year.
See ya.
Speaker Change: Stabilization of 88 Beachwood and Ottawa is expected by the end of 2025, and University Identitoria is expected to be stabilized in 2020.
Speaker Change: I'll conclude with our business outlook. There are a number of factors that have introduced some near-term uncertainty into our industry.
Speaker Change: Let me set that. We believe this is a long-term fundamental supporting Canadian urban rental housing today.
Speaker Change: Remain in tact. There is an acute housing shortage in Canada. This is coupled with the relative affordability of renting versus owning that makes it highly attractive to millions of community.
Speaker Change: Given the current persistent market uncertainty, some Canadians have paused large purchases, such as Real Estate, and most of these Canadians will continue to rent.
Speaker Change: In Toronto, we expect that the majority of planned supply deliveries will occur by 2020.
The fewer new starts expected to follow.
Speaker Change: This low down-and-development activity is anticipated to lead to more balanced supply and demand conditions in the Toronto rental housing market over the medium term.
Speaker Change: We have taken multiple steps to strengthen the REIT, including improving our balance sheet, increasing cash flow, and hydrating the portfolio, which is helping us navigate this near-term uncertainty and petition us for long-term success.
Speaker Change: That concludes our prepared remarks. Operator, please open the line for questions.
Speaker Change: Thank you, and ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. There is a question you may press a star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad, and if you're using a speaker, follow this speaker for your handset before pressing any keys. So if you draw your question, you may press a star followed by the number two. Once again, these presses star one to ask a question.
Golden Whitney: Your first question comes from the line of Golden Whitney, happy art with TD securities these two heads.
Golden Whitney: Thank you. Last year we talked about leveraging incentives, helping to reach out.
John: Hey Golden, it's John , how are you doing? It's really hard to hear you, you're very choppy. I don't know if it's...
Speaker Change: Your line or our line? How about that was a better note?
Yeah.
Speaker Change: Alright, thanks. Last quarter you talked about leveraging more incentives to help increase lead traffic.
Speaker Change: I guess heading into the spring leasing season, how are you thinking about the use of incentives? And I guess particularly across your Toronto Cal Remarkets, which are working through some more of that elevated supply levels.
Speaker Change: Yeah, that's right. And so, I think maybe I'll just back up and talk a little bit about some of the...
Speaker Change: Approach to leasing changes and strategies that we've been employing since the beginning of the year.
Speaker Change: So as you mentioned, we have been employing more promotion but since the beginning of the year we have been prioritizing occupancy and we have made some pricing adjustments as well as promotion changes and a little bit more use of promotion across portfolio and we think that's relatively consistent with the market.
Speaker Change: and we have been seeing some success, and this is evident from our ending occupancy, you know, being higher than our average occupancy.
Speaker Change: and we're seeing that continue to tick a little bit higher through April and May.
and also traffic and tours and unique leads.
Speaker Change: that we measure our trending hire in April and May. And we're working hard to convert those leads and applications into leases. And we're hoping for a little bit of an increase in occupancy from here to Q2, but time will tell.
Speaker Change: And however, it is coming at the cost of a little bit of growth.
Speaker Change: and as we've offered, reduce rates and more promotion, the growth that we've been realizing is slowing down as you're seeing in our numbers.
Speaker Change: and it has been a little bit more acute in Toronto and in Calgary.
Speaker Change: I think as expected, and I think in Toronto, unfortunately, that's probably going to last for the next couple of years. I think by the end of 2026 is when we'll see
Speaker Change: You know, most of that supply hopefully be delivered and then start stabilizing and in Calgary it's a little bit shorter I think I think maybe the end of this year beginning of 2026 we'll see that's slowed down a little bit [inaudible]
But we've been trying to be pretty… [inaudible]
Speaker Change: You know, transparent with what we're seeing on the ground. I think we mentioned this as you said, to cut a last quarter and
Speaker Change: And it's not a massive step change but we did start slower in 2025 than we had originally anticipated in even our internal forecasts.
Speaker Change: So, I'd say we're tracking a little bit behind where we thought we would be kind of at the end of November when we...
Did the budget?
Speaker Change: but not materially. We think we're in a decent spot to catch up and…
Speaker Change: and I think some of the things that we're seeing right now are slightly encouraging.
Speaker Change: We appreciate the color. I'll turn back now. Thank you.
Thanks, Bonne.
Speaker Change: And your next question comes from the line, Brad Sturges with Raymond Shane, speak ahead.
Hey, guys.
Brad Sturgis: I appreciate the commentary there on leasing, maybe just expanding to other parts of the portfolio just Montreal and Ottawa. Just curious what you're seeing there. I noticed at least with Montreal that the leasing spread on turn was a little bit lower than maybe some of the other markets that curious to get your thoughts on those two markets.
Brad Sturgis: Yeah, I think contrary to some of the weakness we're seeing in Toronto and Calgary, I think much you're always been pretty strong. I think we do expect that
Brad Sturgis: Leasing Spreads. We hope they start expanding a little bit, especially as we get to that July timeframe. And pretty positive.
Brad Sturgis: leads in traffic data points that we're seeing in Montreal as well.
and Ottawa has been pretty stable. I'd say there's been...
A good kind of...
Tug of War between Supply and Demand there, and... [inaudible]
Brad Sturgis: and I think our portfolio stacks up pretty well to the new condos that can have come up and some of the new
Brad Sturgis: We're much larger spaces or units and we're kind of cheaper on a on a for-foot basis and even on an incremental like a total dollar amount as well so.
Brad Sturgis: So those two markets are pretty stable, it seems to be at least our portfolio is and so we're cautiously optimistic we'll see a little bit of occupancy uptick in those markets too
Thank you.
Brad Sturgis: Within your first wheat segment, obviously, the number of units keep coming down as you convert to unfurnished, but just curious.
Brad Sturgis: at the macro economic environment or some of the front-around terraces, is that having an impact on the man there or how do you see the revenue trend in the spring and summer?
We think it's sort of structural change and-
Brad Sturgis: You know, President Trump didn't help things when he said that film production outside of the U.S. would be tariffed by 100%. So, like, I don't know if that's kind of bluster or if that's going to happen, but at the same time, it's not helpful. And so, so that's one thing, I think.
Brad Sturgis: You know, corporate travel has been reduced quite significantly, so we're seeing less of that. We're seeing, you know, with the interest rate environment being as it is, you know, people are kind of buying fewer houses, renovating less.
Brad Sturgis: and so that business from those people who need a short-term rental stay because they're renovating their house or because they're moving and the sale and the purchase didn't line up perfectly.
Brad Sturgis: So as we saw this coming about a year ago, I guess we made a decision to start winding it down permanently and that we were on track to do it.
Brad Sturgis: I think the one thing that we're dealing with now is that the overall Toronto and Ottawa kind of rental markets aren't as robust
Brad Sturgis: And so we're, we've slowed it down because we didn't think it made sense to convert something from furnace to unfurnished just to have it sit vacant.
Brad Sturgis: and so we're kind of keeping options value a little bit to pay maybe increase yields if we get that demand. But we are going to wind down, it's probably going to take a little bit longer than what we thought.
Brad Sturgis: and so we'll do it in a measured way and we'll do it in a way that we think can maximize our returns, but we are expecting in 2025 a reduction in that business.
Just to date kind of answer your first question
Thank you.
Brad Sturgis: What would be, I guess, you know, maybe kind of thinking about it from a modeling perspective? How should we think about that wind-out cadence? Is it, you know, should we take the 2024?
Brad Sturgis: sort of pace or, you know, would it be a little bit more accelerated going forward?
Brad Sturgis: Well, I think from an operational perspective, we're hopeful we can get somewhere between five and ten per month ish, going forward kind of depending on demand, and so in the next 18 to 24 months.
Brad Sturgis: is when we could be exited from the business. Again, it's subject to market conditions, Brian , we're trying to be...
Nimble here.
Brad Sturgis: But I think that the overall strategy is to wind it down.
Okay. Great. Thank you. I'll turn it back.
Okay, thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Speaker Change: And your next question comes from the line of Jimmy Shan, with our KBZ Capital Market, he's still ahead.
Speaker Change: Thanks. The occupancy object that you're seeing going into early make, can you be a little more precise in terms of what is that said today?
Speaker Change: Well, I mean, I don't want to be too too precise, Jamie, but we're seeing a small increase.
Speaker Change: Across most of our geographies, some are a little bit more than others, but it won't be measured in hundreds of basis points. I don't think it will be measured in smaller increments than that.
Speaker Change: But we're optimistic we're going to increase it a little bit [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Okay, and then on Lawnsdale, I think when you bought it, you underwritten a local capstone I'm speaking, how is it performing against that today?
Speaker Change: I think it's performing relatively stably. I think it's performing in line with the rest of the market. It's going to be an interesting next few months, Jimmy, because it opened May 1st.
Speaker Change: and so we're starting to see that those 12 month leases turn over.
and we're going to have to chunk through some of that.
Speaker Change: In terms of how those rents falling off compared to where market is, and there may be some ups and downs as a release to that, we are seeing promotion use in the Vancouver market broadly, although we have a very excellent location, so it still early days.
Speaker Change: But the market, I'd say, is worse today slightly than it was when we were kind of looking at underwriting it even eight months ago or a year ago.
Okay.
Okay, and I found out mistake in the FF fully impact right now, it's fairly neutral, right?
Speaker Change: in the court and the expected at some point it'll turn positive at some point I imagine this year.
Speaker Change: I mean, that's the hope, depending on kind of how the rest of this year and next year play out from an O.I. perspective for that asset in particular compared to our underwriting, yeah.
Okay, thanks. That's it for me.
Thanks.
Speaker Change: And your next question comes from the line of Matt Kornack with National Bank Financial Peace Go ahead.
Matt Hornack: Good morning, guys. Just a few quick follow-ups. In terms of the furnished suite, I think the in-place rent is about fifty-seven hundred bucks a month.
Matt Hornack: and I think 52% occupancy there. How should we think of what a long-term rent on that? I mean, Yorkville presumably, you're getting pretty high rents even if you're getting someone in there for a one-year lease, but how should we think of kind of that equation in terms of where rents go relative to occupancy? I think occupancy goes up, rents go down.
Matt Hornack: I think you think about our furnished sweet business that that rent is probably a decent estimation of what we're going to get in the future, but I think the average stays is going to decrease because we're winding down the business.
Matt Hornack: So, from a yield, the revenue perspective, I think, from a rate perspective, it's probably going to be around where it has been, but I think it's just going to, the whole pie is going to start shrinking.
Sweet and Fewer Stays [inaudible]
Speaker Change: I'm just thinking if you take a furnish suite and convert it to a long-term rental, I mean...
Speaker Change: It's like your occupancy would go up on a long-term basis, but you're maybe not going to get the same 12 month relative to what you're getting on a short-term basis. We've underwritten that whole conversion is pretty neutral.
Speaker Change: As we, you know, because I think we get about a 30, I think it's about a 30% premium for Ernesto run furnace, and as we convert...
Speaker Change: You know, we get higher occupancy to your point. And but anyways, to cut through it all, we anticipate it to be pretty neutral.
as we've entered these things
Speaker Change: That's helpful. And then just as we think about incentives, usage, when you present your rents in your MVNA, is that net of the impact of incentives or what is the accounting mechanism?
Speaker Change: for incentives, because if we took your occupancy this quarter of times the number of occupied sweeps and rents, I think even with that the revenue came in a little light and were wondering if it was maybe incentive usage or if those rents are not up that already.
Speaker Change: Hey, Matt, it's Eddie Ayer. So, in the empty name, the remedue numbers are disclosed. Those would be net out of the impacts and solutions.
Speaker Change: So what we do for accounting is if there's promotions given, we smooth out over the least term.
Speaker Change: Okay, and then, for instance, if you're AMR that you report, is that a gross figure?
The E.M.R. report would be gross.
Speaker Change: Okay, and then could you give us a sense of, like, on average across the portfolio, what would be the in place incentive? I don't know if that's a possible figure to get, because you know that incentive is on everything, but, um,
Speaker Change: I don't know about in place, but it's approximately on average about a month per year with that number being slightly higher in Toronto.
[inaudible]
Speaker Change: Okay, make fun. And then lastly, just in terms of the...
Speaker Change: Finger at a historic widespread between the expected game to lease or the potential game to lease versus what you achieved
And I think that-
Speaker Change: largely the nature of turnover skewing, as you mentioned, to leases that were more recently signed, to people who have had big market potential are saying in their suites, but can you quantify
Edward Fu, Ltd.
Speaker Change: I mean, like, something that we've been trying to figure out, you know, so we don't have any specific numbers to give you, but as you just said, as...
As rents start to come down, obviously that [inaudible]
Speaker Change: that gap will narrow, I guess, between, you know, the least is, or the Gandal East and the embedded rent. We suspect it's going to continue to be around where it is for the next little while. I don't see necessarily a mint on the horizon, but that's how we're thinking about it, Matt.
Matt Hornack: But I guess if you, if I think about it more broadly, you've turned what 20% of your portfolio is probably above market rent, so it's like once those 20% are lapped one year assuming market rents reflect, that's really the downsides potential, everything else potentially is upside potential.
with people leaving.
Matt Hornack: I don't know if that's the right way of looking at it.
Matt Hornack: I don't know, I'd have to think about that, Matt. I don't want to react. Thank you. Sairam up. Anyway, that's it for me. Thanks, Ed.
Okay, thanks.
Speaker Change: And your next question comes from the mind of Kyle Stanley, with major denti's bed.
Speaker Change: Thanks, I want to guys. Just a quick one on the elimination of the consumer carbon tax. Can you just remind us of what you see the impact of that being for your results in the year forward into 2026?
Speaker Change: Hey Kyle, Teddy here. I guess for context, our 2024 Cartoon Tax was approximately $1.1 million.
Speaker Change: You know, approximately half of what we had in 2024 would have already been baked into the Q1 numbers, so the remaining half would be the savings I would see in the bottoms of the year.
Speaker Change: Okay. Okay. No, that makes that makes sense to me. And then maybe just going back John , the question earlier just on kind of Montreal and Ottawa and the leasing spread maybe being a bit lower, I mean particularly Montreal and you mentioned hoping to see a bit more of a rebound in the July month. I'm just wondering.
Speaker Change: Today, you mentioned demand has been pretty solid, but maybe what's keeping that leasing spread a bit more seduced and what maybe gives you the hope that you see that expand a bit into the summer? Is it just the focus was preserving occupancy? You did that and now you expect it to benefit or just curious in your thoughts there?
Speaker Change: Yeah, I think it's a little bit of all of that. Kyle, it part of it is really just the leases that turned over that we saw and what we're seeing at the beginning of the queue.
Speaker Change: is just indicating that it's taking up a little bit again. So, I'm not sure it's all early indications, but it's...
Positive, relative to Q1 [inaudible]
Speaker Change: OK, OK, thank you for that. I will turn it back.
Thanks.
Speaker Change: And your next question comes from the line of Sairam Srinivas with Kornmark Securities, please go ahead.
Sairam Srinivas: Thank you, Alberta. Good morning, guys. I have a good question for me on Dreece, Jonathan. And I
Speaker Change: Eddie, maybe just go through our upcoming maturities for 2025 and 2026 and the Quantum's, please.
Speaker Change: Laurie Raven Martin Sy Jonathan Trotter Nathan Cox David Nolten Amy Hulme in Ominem Essen Santa Cruz Perry David Schmidt Megan Jamie Nate 12 Isda Elliott Terrill Kristin Karup I didn't
Speaker Change: So for 2025, we have a few maturities, some which we had disclosed as part of our subsequent events So, disclosures, which we will see in the end of the day.
Speaker Change: We have a total 101 million coming due this year.
Speaker Change: We have successfully closed on approximately 50 million of that during the month of April with remaining 60 in the Q3 time frame.
in terms of just context and REITs for the-
Refinancing that happened in April . Hello. Hello.
Speaker Change: One of them relates to a mortgage in the approximately $23 million dollar range.
Speaker Change: Our exit rate was at 3.54% on an effective basis and we were able to refinance that with CMHC at 4.08%.
Speaker Change: Remain 18 that we had refinanced in the month of April was a straight renewal really into a property in Toronto
Speaker Change: The exit rate was much lower than 1.65%, this one was done on a conventional basis given the activity at the property, so our new rate is at 4.36
Speaker Change: And then for the Q3 Financines, we're still currently underwing that one, our exit rate would be at 315.
Speaker Change: and our new rate will depend. But for context on today's C&B and C&B rates, you know, five-year money would be around three and a half percent, ten-year money would be around four-ten. So just give these some money and up the spread.
Speaker Change: And I'm looking ahead in 2026. We have our 73 million dollars of finding scenes that would be in this really cute two-time frame. And those exit rates are in the little threes.
Speaker Change: That's very coloury and maybe on these more people are coming up or do you see any potential to actually, you know, upfinanted over there and probably unlock some more of the capital
Speaker Change: Yes, for the remaining refinancing for 2025 and in 2026 we have upward refinancing opportunities on all of them.
There's something that will evaluate, you know.
Speaker Change: We'll look at the turn, we'll look at the coupon, we'll look at our-
Speaker Change: That maturity ladder and also, you know, assess where and how we can reallocate that capital if we do upward re-fire But to answer your question, there's upward financing opportunities on the remaining ones.
Okay, thanks guys, I'll turn it back [inaudible]
Thanks.
Speaker Change: And your next question comes from the line of Mike Markidis with BMO Capital Markets,
Mike Markides: Thank you. Good morning. Bear with me. I have a couple technical granular things here. But just first off, following up on the carbon tax question in the trial last, can you just remind me and go back? Does that fall off as well? Or should we be assuming that that stays?
For us, we see our savings in an Ontario and Alberta.
Mike Markides: and Longdale, which is also in DC, technically has a carbon tax, but our use of utility there is slightly different.
Let me just all check into entry out, but I...
Don't think that we have it there.
Speaker Change: All right. Okay. Got it. And then just on the performance metrics, you're showing your MD&A now, I guess. North Vancouver being equity accounted, but presumably your occupancy, I know it's small right now, but your occupancy in your AMR would be inclusive.
at your proportion of interest.
So, in our BC metrics.
Speaker Change: We are much of where we've included Vancouver, and we've insured that we've highlighted, and we've noticed those, but not just.
Speaker Change: We can follow up offline. It's fine. I guess this last one for me. I apologize if the question's already been asked, but just wondering how you guys are thinking about continued dispositions at this juncture.
Speaker Change: and if you see any change in market for demand for lexia assets.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I know our approach hasn't really changed from the last time, or the last border, we're not marketing anything actively.
Speaker Change: and our portfolio remains quite attractive and so we are continuing to receive in-bounds.
Speaker Change: but we were being very opportunistic and about pursuing any of them. But what we're seeing in the
Speaker Change: But I think kind of some of the buyer pools of at least what we're seeing, it slowed down a little bit as there's just a lot of uncertainty in...
Speaker Change: The overall market and the multi-family market in particular. And so we've seen, you know, we're time will tell to see if a lot of these listings that are out there actually get to the finish line.
Speaker Change: Okay. And then, you know, just on your comment just being opportunistic when you think about it as a meaning, you got to hit your IFRS value, is it more dependent on what your potential uses of capital would be just trying to think of how you're thinking about that.
Speaker Change: I think it's both of those things. I mean, the reality for us is that...
Speaker Change: because we have, you know, it's a lot of capital to deploy at once if we were to sell even the one asset, right? And so, it's got to be very a creder for us to do it. And right now, because we don't have any debt to pay down.
Unless we have an acquisition that we can perfectly match.
Speaker Change: you know sell at a lower cap rate buy at a higher cap rate that that would work
Speaker Change: But it's really risky from an execution risk perspective to line up for us, and we missed those targets.
because of financing or a drags on or whatever, it would be really difficult for us to bridge that. And...
Speaker Change: You know, you might say, well, I need to sell an asset and buy back stock. Well, unfortunately, we can't buy back a lot of stock at once under our NCIB. As you know, we can only buy about $300,000 per day. So, if we got $40 million cash injection from an asset sale, it would take...
Speaker Change: A long time to deploy that capital in any manner so it wouldn't be, I think it would be kind of diluted if we wanted to do that. So when you put all that together and unless we got an extremely attractive offer that we just couldn't say no to.
Speaker Change: I think it would be, at least in this market right now, it's difficult to find sort of an asset that we want for the pricing that we want on the acquisition side, so it's, it's, it's, it's, uh,
the likelihood is lower. [inaudible]
for us to tell it how it's done.
Speaker Change: No, that's useful, thanks, and then just I guess, I know you guys have passed on this while back, but is Giffon Bank still a potential acquisition opportunity for you to still sit on the parents' books?
Speaker Change: I'd say in the longer term, maybe, but right now, you know, no.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I was asking the question more just in terms of you got that great potential on a disposition that maybe you could match it with that, that was always getting out of us, but...
It's possible, but that won't be high-caparate.
Speaker Change: No. They never are there. Okay. That's useful. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Thanks Mike.
Speaker Change: And once again, if you would like to ask a question, please press a star one on your telephone keypad. Your next question comes from the line of Mario Saric with Scotiaband, please
Hi, good morning, guys.
Speaker Change: Just, maybe sticking to the capital allocation theme and Jonathan, I appreciate that it's difficult to sell chunky assets to
Speaker Change: by back your saw on your NCIB, but are the tax characteristics of the assets that you would consider potentially selling if you got a good offer such that you'd be able to redeploy most of the net proceeds from the assets into something like an SIB, for example, or to the chunkier.
which would—
You know, change the net proceeds. You know, we've…
Speaker Change: thought about an SIV, but given our size, given our liquidity, that's a lot of rain damage for us to sustain, to just do something like that. I think, you know, just speaking.
Speaker Change: Really, and casually, like, if it were only up to me, and it's not, but if it was only up to me, you know, instead of doing an ICIB, we'd rather, you know, I'd just as soon do something else, more strategic than that. I just don't think.
Speaker Change: You know, chipping around the edges on an NCIB given our size and liquidity right now is a high likelihood event.
Speaker Change: Okay. And then, when you guys internally, when you think about leverage, and you guys focus a bit more on the Death to Ghostbuck Valley or the Dutti Badawath.
Speaker Change: In terms of... You know, I think we learned it in terms of top allocation.
Speaker Change: Yeah, we look at everything. I think we'd skew more towards debt to GBV only because that's the metric on which we can borrow.
Speaker Change: Like we can borrow based on that metric, we're CMHC and for conventional. So while debt to EBITDA is interesting and we want that to be as low as possible, I think the driving factor would probably be debt to GBV and debt service coverage.
So...
Speaker Change: You know, in that kind of mid 40s, like we're very comfortable in mid 40s, and that's, you know, we're comfortably under that right now.
Got it.
Okay, last one for me, just on the operational side [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Jonathan Kelcher, you were transferring, saying, seems to revenue to 25 may come down to the load of mits and movies range from 5% last quarter.
Speaker Change: is a load of mitts and will dig your range still applicable or do you see potentially coming down kind of even further than that?
Speaker Change: No, I think low to mid for revenue is for 2025 is still kind of in the zone of reasonableness. I think a lot of the stuff that we've talked about, you know, 2025 unfortunately for us is a little tougher because
Speaker Change: You know, tough comps based on last year, I'd say, I'd say the supply that we're working through in Toronto and Calgary, we've got Minto Yorkville furnished sweets that we just talked about, you got Minto Yorkville commercial space that is vacant.
Speaker Change: So, you've got, you know, we've got these, what I'll call, 2025.
Headwinds
Speaker Change: that we hope will be gone in 2026 for the most part. And maybe there's a few more tailwinds in terms of, you know, you've got the Minto Eurofield commercial space starting to pay, you've got carbon tax. So, you know, we're hoping to get back to some normal C in 2026.
Speaker Change: and we're consciously optimistic about 2026, but I think 2025 is going to be a little bit of, you know, challenging year compared to prior ones.
Speaker Change: Okay, now let me explain. And then just on the new supply, when you look at your major markets, there's clearly a decent amount of goods in Toronto and in Calgary, but when you look at 26 versus 25
Speaker Change: In terms of the pace of supply growth, the fair to say that within all your markets you expect to supply growth to decelerate in 26 relative to 25 and perhaps meaningfully so in Calgary and Toronto.
Speaker Change: I think for in Toronto we're seeing at least the estimates that we're seeing, 2026 deliveries are pretty similar to 2025.
Speaker Change: Whether or not they all get delivered, I guess, is one question. There's probably more downside to that number. IE will be fewer deliveries than what is anticipated, just because things just don't get finished.
Speaker Change: but 2025 and 2026, at least in Toronto, the numbers that we're seeing combined condo and purpose with the rental supply.
Speaker Change: You know, pretty similar. You start to see a drop off in 27 and beyond, and again, like those numbers, there's probably downside to those numbers even on top of what we're seeing.
Speaker Change: And then in Calgary, it happens a little bit faster. I think 2020, the numbers that I saw most recently, the 2026 numbers are lower than 2025 in Calgary.
Speaker Change: So that that drove that informs our previous comment about working through the Calgary Supply in 2025 for the most part.
Speaker Change: And as of now, Montreal and Ottawa, in 26, you're pretty comfortable with.
The level is expected to fly down.
Speaker Change: Yeah, nothing overly concerning that we're seeing today in those two markets.
Thank you.
Okay, thank you.
Thanks, Barrow.
Speaker Change: and I'm sure you know further questions at this time. I would like to turn it back to Mr. D for closing remarks.
Speaker Change: Thank you very much, operator, and thanks everyone for your time, and we look forward to speaking with you again in the summertime.
Take care.
Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you all for joining me. You may now discuss it.