Q1 2025 Abacus Global Management Inc Earnings Call

Operator: Greetings and welcome to the Abacus Global Management first quarter 2025 earnings call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. A brief question and answer session will follow the formal presentation.

Greetings and welcome to the Abacus Global management first quarter 2025 earnings call.

At this time all participants are in a listen only mode.

A brief question and answer session will follow the formal presentation.

Operator: If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press star and then zero on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference the space Star and then zero on your telephone keypad.

As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

Robert Phillips: It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Robert Phillips. Thank you. You may begin. Thank you, operator.

Robert Phillips: It is not my pleasure to introduce your host Robert Phillips. Thank you you may begin.

Speaker Change: Thank you operator, and thank you everyone for joining abacus global management's first quarter 2025 earnings call here.

Robert Phillips: And thank you, everyone, for joining Abacus Global Management's first quarter 2025 earnings call. Here with me today are Jay Jackson, chairman and chief executive officer, and Bill McCauley, chief financial officer. This afternoon at 4.15 p.m. Eastern Time, Abacus Global Management released its first quarter 2025 results. This afternoon's call will allow participants to ask questions about our results.

Jay Jackson: Here with me today are Jay Jackson, Chairman, and Chief Executive Officer, and Bill Mccauley, Chief Financial Officer.

Jay Jackson: This afternoon at 415 P M. Eastern time Abacus Global management released its first quarter 2025 results. This afternoon's call will allow participants to ask questions about our results.

Robert Phillips: Before we begin, Abacus Global Management refers participants on this call to the investor webpage ir.abacusgm.com for the press release, the investor information, and filings with the SEC for discussion of the risks that can affect the business. Abacus Global Management specifically refers participants to the presentation furnished today on Form 8K with the Securities and Exchange Commission and to remind listeners that some of the comments today may contain forward-looking statements and as such will be subject to risks and uncertainties which, if they materialize, could materially affect results. For more information on the risks, uncertainties, and assumptions relating to forward-looking statements, please refer to Abacus Global Management's public file.

Jay Jackson: Before we begin abacus global management refers participants on this call to the Investor webpage, IR Dot Abacus G M Dot com, but the press release, the investor information and filings with the SEC for a discussion of the risks that can affect the business advocates global management, specifically refers participants to the present.

Jay Jackson: Patient furnished today on form 8-K, with the Securities and Exchange Commission and to remind listeners that some of the comments today may contain forward looking statements and as such will be subject to risks and uncertainties, which if they materialize could materially affect results.

Jay Jackson: More information on the risks uncertainties and assumptions relating to forward looking statements. Please refer to advocates global management's public filings done.

Robert Phillips: During the call, we will reference certain non-GAAP financial measures. Although we believe these measures provide useful supplemental information about our financial performance, they are not recognized measures and do not have standardized meanings under U.S. generally accepted accounting principles or GAAP.

Jay Jackson: During the call we will reference certain non-GAAP financial measures. Although we believe these measures provide useful supplemental information about our financial performance. They are not recognized measures and do not have standardized meanings under U S generally accepted accounting principles or GAAP.

Robert Phillips: Please see our public filings for additional information regarding our non-GAAP financial measures, including references to comparable GAAP measures.

Jay Jackson: Highlings for additional information regarding our non-GAAP financial measures, including references to comparable GAAP measures.

Jay Jackson: With that, I'd now like to turn the call over to Jay Jackson, Chief Executive Officer. Thanks, Rob. And thank you to everyone joining us today for your interest in Abacus Global Management.

Jay Jackson: With that, I'd now like to turn the call over to Jay Jackson, Chief Executive Officer.

Speaker Change: Thanks Rob, and thank you to everyone joining us today for your interest in Advocates Global Management and welcome to our first quarter 2025 earnings call. After Bill and I conclude our prepared remarks, we'll open it up to your questions.

Jay Jackson: And welcome to our first quarter 2025 earnings call. After Bill and I conclude our prepared remarks, we'll open it up to your questions. We are pleased to kick off the new year with a record first quarter of profitable growth while continuing to execute our strategic initiatives to scale and diversify our business. For the first quarter of 2025, we more than doubled total revenue year over year to 44.1 million and recorded strong adjusted earnings, more than doubling adjusted net income to 17.3 million and adjusted EBITDA to 24.5 million year over year. Our strong performance was driven by robust demand for policyholder liquidity.

Bill: We are pleased to kick off the new year with a record first quarter of profitable growth while continuing to execute our strategic initiatives to scale and diversify our business.

Bill: For the first quarter of 2025, we more than double total revenue year over year to 44.1 million.

Bill: and recorded strong adjusted earnings. More than doubling adjusted net income to 17.3 million and adjusted EBITDA to 24.5 million year over year. Our strong performance was driven by robust demand for policyholder liquidity.

Jay Jackson: Our excellent first quarter performance positions us very well to achieve our full year 2025 outlook for adjusted net income to be between $70 million and $78 million, which implies another strong year of growth between 51% to 68%.

Bill: Our excellent first quarter performance positions us very well to achieve our full year 2025 outlook for adjusted net income to be between 70 million and 78 million, which implies another strong year of growth between 51% to 68%.

Jay Jackson: Bill will be along shortly to discuss our first quarter financial performance in further detail. While the macro environment remains uncertain in the near term, we strongly believe Abacus remains well positioned to successfully navigate through any challenges posed by the current market volatility. Abacus's unique business model provides us with clear strategic advantages. During times of market volatility, policyholders and their financial advisors often look for different ways to access liquidity. Abacus specializes in helping clients unlock the value from their life insurance policies, driving more business opportunities. Market uncertainty also drives increased investor demand for uncorrelated alternative assets to diversify their portfolios from traditional market performance.

Bill: Bill will be along shortly to discuss our first quarter financial performance in further detail.

Bill: While the macro environment remains uncertain in the near term, we strongly believe Abacus remains well-positioned to successfully navigate through any challenges posed by the current market volatility. Abacus's unique business model provides us with clear strategic advantages.

Bill: During times of market volatility, policyholders and their financial advisors often look for different ways to access liquidity. Abacus specializes in helping clients unlock the value from their life insurance policies, driving more business opportunities.

Bill: Market uncertainty also drives increased investor demand for uncorrelated alternative assets to diversify their portfolios from traditional market performance.

Jay Jackson: Abacus's specialized investment products continue to attract increased interest from registered investment advisors looking for differentiated yield products for their clients. Meanwhile, our expanded private fund offerings through our longevity funds have generated strong demand from advisors seeking alternative investment options. By serving both consumers seeking liquidity and investors pursuing uncorrelated assets, we have established a durable business that we believe can succeed in any market cycle. Additionally, our balance sheet and liquidity position has never been stronger with cash and cash in equivalents of $43.8 million and balance sheet policy assets of $448.1 million as of March 31, 2025.

Bill: Abacus's specialized investment products continue to attract increased interest from registered investment advisors, looking for differentiated yield products for their clients.

Bill: Meanwhile, our expanded private fund offerings, through our longevity funds, have generated strong demand from advisors seeking alternative investment options.

Bill: By serving both consumers seeking liquidity and investors pursuing uncorrelated assets, we have established a durable business model that we believe can succeed in any market cycle.

Bill: Additionally, our balance sheet and liquidity position has never been stronger with cash and cash and equivalence of $43.8 million in balance sheet policy assets of $448.1 million as of March 31st, 2025.

Jay Jackson: While we continue to monitor the macro environment closely, we are poised to take advantage of any opportunities that may be caused by any market dislocation. In the first quarter, our asset management offerings continued to gain strong traction with new AUM inflows of $151 million due to our expanded offerings, geographic reach, and the growing institutional interest of private funds that are being stood up specifically to allocate to life insurance policies. Our expanded private fund offerings that launched in late February this year are off to a strong start, with approximately $123 million in new inflows in just the first month since launch.

Bill: While we continue to monitor the macro environment closely, we are poised to take advantage of any opportunities that may be caused by any market dislocations.

Bill: In the first quarter, our asset management offerings continued to gain strong traction with new AUM inflows of 151 million.

Bill: Due to our expanded offerings, geographic reach, and the growing institutional interest of private funds that are being stood up specifically to allocate to life insurance policies.

Bill: Our expanded private fund offerings that launched in late February this year are off to a strong start with approximately 123 million in new capital inflows in just the first month since launch.

Jay Jackson: Further, our ETFs also saw a positive increase in asset flows in the first quarter, with the Real Assets ETF increasing net new inflows by $44 million.

Bill: Further, RETS also saw a positive increase in asset flows in the first quarter with the real assets ETF increasing net new inflows by $44 million.

Jay Jackson: As we highlighted on our prior call, we recently rebranded our company to Abacus Global Management to reflect our evolution and our expanded global market presence. The feedback we received and continue to receive has been extremely encouraging. To that end, in the months ahead, you will see us expand our new brand recognition, including via the launch of a new ad campaign that will focus on all of Abacus Global Management's distinct yet complementary business verticals, namely. Abacus Life Solutions, which provides premium liquidity solutions for life insurance assets, helping thousands of clients maximize the value of their life insurance assets.

Bill: As we highlighted on our prior call, we recently rebranded our company to Advocates Global Management to reflect our evolution and our expanded global market presence.

Bill: The feedback we received and continue to receive has been extremely encouraging.

Bill: To that end, in the months ahead, you will see us expand our new brand recognition, including via the launch of a new ad campaign that will focus on all of Abacus Global Management's distinct yet complementary business verticals, namely...

Bill: Abacus Life Solutions, which provides premium liquidity solutions for life insurance assets, helping thousands of clients maximize the value of their life insurance assets. Since 2004, Abacus has purchased over $10 billion in face value of life insurance policies.

Jay Jackson: Since 2004, Abacus has purchased over $10 billion in face value of life insurance policy. Abacus Asset Group, which serves institutional investors and select private clients with specialized, uncorrelated, and longevity-based assets and investment strategies, fixed income replacement strategies, and free cash flow-based investment solutions. The platform uses proprietary analytics to identify unique investment opportunities that deliver consistent results across market cycles while maintaining strict risk asset management. Abacus Wealth Advisors, which redefines wealth management through our 20-plus years of proprietary data and algorithms that create truly customized financial plans based on health, longevity, and overall financial well-being. and AVL Tech, which leverages our decades of experience in proprietary data to revolutionize the life planning industry through innovative technology solutions, serving pensions, insurance companies and asset managers.

Bill: Advocates Asset Group, which serves institutional investors in select private clients with specialized, uncorrelated and longevity-based assets in investment strategies.

Bill: Fixed Income Replacement Strategies in free cash flow-based investment solutions. The platform uses proprietary analytics to identify unique investment opportunities that deliver consistent results across market cycles while maintaining strict risk asset management.

Speaker Change: Advocates Walt Advisors, which redefines wealth management through our 20 plus years of proprietary data and algorithms that create truly customized financial plans based on health, longevity, and overall financial well-being.

and ABL Tech.

Speaker Change: which leverages our decades of experience and proprietary data to revolutionize the life planning industry through innovative technology solutions, serving pensions, insurance companies, and asset managers.

Jay Jackson: The division has developed platforms that conduct real-time mortality verifications, locate missing participants and service the secondary life insurance market with unprecedented speed and accuracy. Looking ahead, we are building on our momentum as our growing brand recognition is leading to greater policy originations, increased interest in our asset management offerings, and our expansion into wealth management. As a result, we remain well on track to achieve our full year financial target. We remain committed to executing our growth strategy to firmly solidify Abacus as a leader in the alternative asset manager and wealth management space. Our differentiated business model, along with our offerings of uncorrelated assets, position us well to successfully navigate the current uncertain environment and come out even stronger than before.

Speaker Change: The division has developed platforms that conduct real-time mortality verifications, locate missing participants and service the secondary life insurance market with unprecedented and speed inaccuracy.

Speaker Change: Looking ahead, we are building on our momentum as our growing brand recognition is leading to greater policy originations.

Speaker Change: Increased interest in our asset management offerings and our expansion into wealth management.

Speaker Change: As a result, we remain well-entracked to achieve our full-year financial targets.

Speaker Change: We remain committed to executing our gross strategy to firmly solidify Abacus as a leader in the alternative asset manager and wealth management space.

Speaker Change: Our differentiated business model, along with our offerings of uncorrelated assets, physician us well to successfully navigate the current uncertain environment and come out even stronger than before.

William McCauley: With that, I'll now hand it over to our CFO, Bill McCauley, to discuss the specifics of our first quarter results. Thanks, Jay. And hello, everyone. As Jay mentioned, we had another strong quarter of top line growth and profitability. Total revenue in the first quarter of 2025 more than doubled to $44.1 million compared to $21.5 million in the prior year period. Our revenue increase was primarily driven by greater life solutions, formerly active management and origination revenues, as well as significant contributions from asset management fees. The key driver of our life solutions performance continues to be our highly efficient origination platform, as capital deployed increased 128% to $124.9 million in Q1 2025, compared to $54.6 million in the prior year.

Speaker Change: With that, I'll now hand it over to our CFO Bill McCauley to discuss the specifics of our first quarter results.

Bill McCauley: Thanks Jay, and hello everyone. As Jay mentioned, we had another strong quarter of top line growth and profitability.

Bill McCauley: Total revenue in the first quarter of 2025 more than double to 44.1 million compared to 21.5 million in the prior year period

Bill McCauley: A revenue increase was primarily driven by greater life solutions, formally active management and origination revenues, as well as significant contributions from asset management fees.

Bill McCauley: The key driver of our Life Solutions performance continues to be our highly efficient origination platform, as capital deployed increased 128% to 124.9 million in Q1 2025 compared to 54.6 million in the prior year.

William McCauley: With the growth in policy origination and capital deployment, as of March 31st, 2025, Abacus holds 753 insurance policies with a value of $448.1 million on the balance sheet. We're very excited about the contributions from the asset management business, as this is the first full quarter of asset management fees from our acquisitions that closed in late 2024. Q1 2025 had $7.8 million in revenue in that business segment.

Bill McCauley: With the growth in policy origination and capital deployment as of March 31, 2025, Abacus holds 753 insurance policies with a value of 448.1 million on the balance sheet.

Bill McCauley: We're very excited about the contributions from the asset management business as this is the first full quarter of asset management fees from our acquisitions that closed in late 2024 Q1 2025 had 7.8 million in revenue in that business segment

William McCauley: Turning to expenses, total operating expenses, excluding unrealized and realized gains and losses on investments and the change in fair value of debt for the first quarter 2025 were approximately $19.6 million compared to $15 million in the prior year. The increase from the prior year period was primarily due to the incorporation of operating expenses of the companies that were acquired in Q4 2024, greater depreciation and amortization, and higher investments in SG&A and marketing to support our growth profile. The company typically realizes the benefit of marketing spend within 90 to 120 days. On an adjusted basis, excluding non-cash stock compensation, business acquisition costs, amortization and change in fair value of warrant liability, adjusted net income for the first quarter of 2025 more than doubled to $17.3 million compared to $6.7 million in the prior year, which represents a 158% increase over the prior year.

Bill McCauley: Turning to expenses, total operating expenses, excluding unrealized and realized gains and losses on investments, and the change and fair value of debt for the first quarter 2025 were approximately 19.6 million compared to 15 million in the prior year.

Bill McCauley: The increase from the prior year period was primarily due to the incorporation of operating expenses of the companies that were acquired in Q4 2024, greater depreciation and standardization and higher investments in SGNA and marketing to support our growth profile.

Bill McCauley: The company typically realizes the benefit of marketing spend within 90 to 120 days.

Bill McCauley: on an adjusted basis, excluding non-cash.compensation, business acquisition costs.

Bill McCauley: Amortization and change and fair value of warrant liability adjusted that income for the first quarter of 2025 more than double to 17.3 million compared to 6.7 million in the prior year, which represents a 158% increase over the prior year.

William McCauley: adjusted EBITDA for the quarter also more than doubled to $24.5 million compared to $11.6 million in the prior year. adjusted even a margin was 55.6% for the quarter compared to 53.9% in the prior year. Gap net income attributable to stockholders for the quarter was $4.6 million compared to a gap net loss of $1.3 million in the prior year, primarily driven by higher revenues, partially offset by increased operating costs from our acquisitions. Now turning to our balance sheet metrics, for the first quarter 2025, annualized adjusted return on equity was 16%, and an annualized adjusted return on invested capital was 16.7%, both reflecting our highly profitable business model.

Bill McCauley: Adjusted even for the quarter, also more than double to 24.5 million compared to 11.6 million in the prior year.

Bill McCauley: Adjusted even a margin was 55.6% for the quarter compared to 53.9% in the prior year.

Bill McCauley: Gap net income attributable to stockholders for the quarter was $4.6 million compared to a gap net loss of $1.3 million in the prior year, primarily driven by higher revenues partially offset by increased operating costs from our acquisitions.

Bill McCauley: Now, turning to our balance sheet metrics. For the first quarter, 2025, annualized adjusted return on equity was 16 percent, and annualized adjusted return on invested capital was 16.7 percent, both reflecting our highly profitable business model.

William McCauley: As of March 31st, 2025, the company had cash and cash equivalents of $43.8 million, balance sheet policy assets of $448.1 million, and outstanding long-term debt of $238 million. As Jay mentioned in his remarks, despite current market volatility, we remain confident in our ability to achieve our full year 2025 outlook for adjusted net income to be between $70 million and $78 million. The range implies growth of between 51% to 68% compared to full year 2024 adjusted net income of $46.5 million.

Bill McCauley: As of March 31st, 2025, the company had cash and cash equivalent of 43.8 million, balance sheet policy assets of 448.1 million, and outstanding long-term debt of 238 million.

Jay Jackson: As Jay mentioned in his remarks, despite current market volatility, we remain confident in our ability to achieve our full year 2025 outlook for adjusted net income to be between 70 million and 78 million.

Jay Jackson: The range implies growth of between 51% to 68% compared to full year 2024 adjusted net income of 46.5 million.

William McCauley: In summary, we're off to a strong start to the year and as we delivered record growth on our top line, as well as significantly growing profitability on an adjusted basis, we expect to maintain our momentum and execute our growth plans to capture the growth opportunities ahead of us.

Jay Jackson: In summary, we're off to a strong start to the year as we delivered record growth on our top line as well as significantly growing profitability on an adjusted basis.

Jay Jackson: We expect to maintain our momentum and execute our growth plans to capture the growth opportunities ahead of us. I will now turn it back to our CEO , Jay Jackson, for our closing comments.

Jay Jackson: I will now turn it back to our CEO, Jay Jackson, for our closing comments. Thanks, Phil. In conclusion, our record first quarter performance further validates our resilient and differentiated business model. We are well positioned to successfully navigate the current uncertainty as we deliver on our unique value proposition to policyholders and investors seeking uncorrelated assets. We remain very excited about the vast market opportunity in front of us, and we're committed to building on our two-decade track record of financial success to deliver long-term profitable growth.

Thanks, Phil, in conclusion.

Jay Jackson: Our record first quarter performance further validates our resilient and differentiated business model.

Jay Jackson: We are well positioned to successfully navigate the current uncertainty as we deliver on our unique value proposition to policy holders and investors seeking uncorrelated assets.

Jay Jackson: We remain very excited about the vast market opportunity in front of us and we're committed to building on our two-decade track record of financial success to deliver long-term, profitable growth.

Jay Jackson: Again, thank you all for joining us today, and we appreciate your interest in Abacus Global Management. With that, we look forward to your questions. Thank you.

Jay Jackson: Again, thank you all for joining us today, and we appreciate your interest in Advocates Global Management. With that, we look forward to your questions.

Operator: We will now be conducting a question and answer session.

Speaker Change: Thank you. We will not be conducting a question or non-sufficient session. If we neglect the Oscar question, please restart and then one on your cell phone, keep head. Our confirmation turn will indicate your line is in the question, Q.

Operator: If you would like to ask a question, please press star and then 1 on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question zone. You may press star and then 2 if you would like to remove a question from the queue.

Jay Jackson: You may press star, and then too, if you would like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speak equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before putting the star keys. One moment please, world poll for question.

Operator: For participants using speaking equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the start key. One moment please, we'll hold the poll for questions.

Patrick David: The first question we have is from Patrick David of Autonomous Research. Please go ahead. Hey, good evening, uh, everyone.

Speaker Change: The first question we have is from Patrick David of Autonomous Research. Please go ahead.

Hey, good evening, everyone.

Jay Jackson: Um... Theoretically, there's an argument for policyholders to potentially be looking for more liquidity in uncertain times. So I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on, or any noticeable uptick in inquiries since Liberation Day. Hey, Patrick. You know, it's interesting. The answer is, is that that yes, we have seen noticeable intakes, upticks related to interest. You know, what's interesting is, is that how do we correlate that then with the amount of advertising that we're already doing? And I think the way that we're starting to see that is that the advertising that we're doing is potentially having a larger impact with the potential, I would argue, uncertainty that's been developing in our markets post-Liberation Day.

Speaker Change: If theoretically there's an argument for policyholders to potentially be looking for more liquidity in uncertain times, so be curious to hear your thoughts on any noticeable uptick in inquiry since Liberation Day.

You know, it's interesting. The answer is, is 8 feet.

Yes, we have seen noticeable upticks related to interest.

Speaker Change: The potential, I would argue, uncertainty that's been developing in our markets post-liberation days. So, we've seen a positive impact from the position of increase.

Jay Jackson: So, we've seen a positive impact from the position of increased interest and, you know, and as we've talked about in the past, the other side to this is that we've certainly seen a very significant interest from investors, you know, seeking a less correlated asset. You know, these assets are traditionally, you know, from an origination point of view, you know, we're one of the few places that they can get these assets in.

Interest?

Speaker Change: and as we've talked about in the past, the other side of this is that we've certainly seen

Speaker Change: A very significant interest from investors seeking a less correlated asset.

Speaker Change: You know, these assets are traditionally, you know, from an origination point of view. You know, we're one of the few few places that they can get these assets in. And so, you know, in in the launch of our funds, yeah, and we had added to additional follow on offerings in February or late February and just that short amount of time you saw in the release. Thank you.

Jay Jackson: And so, you know, in the launch of our funds and we had added two additional follow-on offerings in mid-February or late February in just that short amount of time you saw on the release, we were able to, you know, raise from investors $123 million, which was certainly impressive from our perspective considering, you know, that was even before Liberation Day. So, I think that just investors in general are certainly seeking this kind of uncorrelated yield that we've talked about in the past.

Speaker Change: We were able to, you know, raise from investors $123 million, which was...

Speaker Change: Certainly impressive from our perspective considering, you know, that was even before Liberation Day. So, I think they just investors in general are certainly seeking this kind of uncorrelated deal that we've talked about in the past and in addition to that.

Jay Jackson: And in addition to that, we have seen certainly a rise in inquiries from policyholders who are interested in learning more about what the market value looks like.

Speaker Change: We have seen certainly a rise in inquiries from policymakers who are interested in learning more about what the market value of the policy might be.

Jay Jackson: Great, thanks. And then as a follow-up, on the new repurchase authorization, how do you think about, you know, using that to take advantage of the low stock valuation versus, you know, not wanting the stock to be more illiquid? Yeah, we, when we looked at that, it's, it's from a repurchase option. And obviously, if you kind of look at the numbers, the way we positioned it over an 18 month time period, it wasn't a significant amount of our very large amount of total dollars. But, you know, what we were optically looking at was, when we went to the board to have that discussion was that, you know, post kind of tariff conversations, you know, the overall market had sold off quite, quite significantly.

Speaker Change: Great. Thanks. And then as a follow-up on the new repurchase authorization, how do you think about using that to take advantage of the low stock valuation versus not wanting the stock to be more liquid?

Yeah, we, when we look at that, it's, all right.

Speaker Change: from a repurchase option, and obviously if you kind of look at the numbers the way we positioned it over an 18-month time period it wasn't a significant amount of our very large amount of total dollars.

But, you know, what we were optically looking at was...

Speaker Change: when we went to the board to have that discussion was that, you know, post.

Speaker Change: Kind of terror conversations, you know, the overall market hits old off quite quite significantly and the point that we looked at was based on evaluation basis was our stock significantly more discounted than what we felt like we had on ROE against policies that we were acquiring. Thank you very much.

Jay Jackson: And that we looked at was based on a valuation basis, was our stock significantly more discounted than what we felt like we had on ROE against policies that we were acquiring. And when the math falls in the favor that, you know, the stock appears like it was at a higher discount than what we might receive on an ROE, it made sense to consider what that plan looked like.

Speaker Change: and when the map falls in the favor that, you know, the stock appears like it was at a higher discount than what we might receive on an R.O.E. It made sense to consider what that plan looked like. I think that it was a very thoughtful

Jay Jackson: I think that it was a very thoughtful decision on our end. And we think that it was that it was successful and continues to be a success. Now, as we're seeing some results and we continue to see the performance of the stock, certainly that math equation starts to flip, but it always comes down to it has to be more accretive than the asset we're buying.

Speaker Change: Decision on our end, and we think that it was successful and continues to be a successful plan.

Speaker Change: Now, as we're seeing some results, and we continue to see the performance of the stock, certainly that math equation starts to flip, but it always comes down to, it has to be more creative than the asset we're buying.

Crispin Love: The next question we have is from Crispin Love of Piper Sandler, please go ahead. Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. You deployed nearly $125 million in the first quarter, which I think has to be a record. Following the capital raise and debt raise late last year, would you consider Abacus to be fully deployed today? And then as you recycle capital, what do you think a run rate level could be for capital deployed in the coming quarters? Sure, you know, we certainly built into this, and you're correct, this was a higher level of capital deployment, particularly in a Q1 than we had seen historically.

Speaker Change: The next question we have is from Crispin Love of Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Crispin Love: Thank you and a good afternoon everyone. You deployed nearly 125 million in the first quarter which I think has to be a record. Following the capital raise and debt raise late last year, would you consider Abacus be fully deployed today? And then as you recycle capital, what do you think a run rate level could be for capital deployed in the coming quarters? Sure. Thank you.

Jay Jackson: And a lot of that's driven to a couple of factors. Certainly our origination efforts are certainly coming into play here where we're able to deploy capital in a very successful way. But in addition to that, with the increased investor demand for the asset, what we're seeing is that we're also able to put those policies either back into market or into other investment products that then frees up more capital on the balance sheet to continue to purchase policies. So I think that we're very much in a very strong position here, that as we look into 2025 and we think about how we either recycle capital or continue to add capital to the balance sheet, specifically through policy sales or any other activity that we may be able to take advantage of.

He's either back into market or into other investment products.

Crispin Love: or any other activity that we may be able to take advantage of.

Jay Jackson: We're just in a really good spot right now. And I think that that trend will continue. When we looked at our guidance for this year, there's a reason why we didn't make any adjustments to it, just because I think we're well-positioned from a cash perspective. Yes, we put a lot of money to work in Q1, but we still have like 43, $44 million of cash on the balance sheet to put to work. And plus the success of the capital raise in the longevity funds for Q1, gives us a lot of flexibility and puts us in a really strong position for the long term.

Crispin Love: We're just in a really good spot right now and I think that that trend will continue.

Crispin Love: When we looked at our guidance for this year, you know, there's a reason why we didn't, we didn't make any adjustments to it just because I think we're well positioned from a cash perspective. Yes, we put a lot of money to work in Q1, but we still have like $43-44 million of cash on the balance sheet to put to work in plus the success of the capital race in the... We have a lot of cash on the balance sheet to put to work in plus the success of the capital race in the capital race in the...

Crispin Love: Law and Jeavity Funds for Q1 gives us a lot of flexibility and puts us in a really strong position for the rest of the year.

Crispin Love: Great. Thanks, Jay.

Speaker Change: Great, thanks Jay. And then just second question from me. Can you share some of your latest thoughts on the on the carrier by vac program? Was it active in the first quarter? And then what are the opportunities for potentially new relationships through 2025?

Jay Jackson: And then just second question from me, can you share some of your latest thoughts on the carrier buyback program? Was it active in the first quarter? And then what are opportunities for potentially new relationships through 2025? Sure. Yes, we still saw activity in Q1. We noted some of that activity. You know, that activity can be... a little bit chunky in a sense of, you know, depending on the size of the transaction and kind of, you know, whether they're looking at a larger block or individuals. But what we're seeing is, is that this is continuing to evolve in different types of structures and strategies.

Speaker Change: Sure. Yes, we still saw activity in Q1. We noted some of that activity. You know, that activity

Speaker Change: A little bit chunky in a sense of, you know, depending on the size of the transaction and kind of, you know, whether they're looking at a larger block or individuals. But what we're seeing is that this is continuing to evolve in different types of structures and strategies and, you know, we're continuing to engage with and have conversations with both carriers and reinsurers where this is suitable for them. And as this kind of concept continues to grow, we think...

Jay Jackson: And, you know, we're continuing to engage with and have conversations with both carriers and reinsurers where this is suitable for them. And as this kind of concept continues to grow, we think as we look into 2025, that the carrier buyback program or the policy buyback program will only continue. And the other way that we're looking at this as well is that there's also such investor demand for the asset. To be quite frank, you know, the carriers themselves are potentially having more competition for the asset than they've had in the past.

Speaker Change: is we look into 2025 that the carrier by-back program or the policy by-back program will only continue and

Speaker Change: The other way that we're looking at this as well is that there's also such investor demand for the asset to be quite frank, you know, the carriers themselves are potentially having more competition for the asset than they had in the past.

Crispin Love: Thank you, Jay. I appreciate you taking my questions.

Great. Thank you, Jay. I appreciate it. Take my questions.

Randy Binner: The next question we have is from Randy Binner of B Riley, please go ahead. Sure. The way that we look at the carrier program versus, you know, selling the policies outright, is that, you know, from our perspective, it's important that obviously that area will continue to grow. But beyond that, you know, we're looking at this from who can pay the most for the contract, right? And so, you know, in this example, we're looking at this and we're seeing pretty strong investor demand and it's going to be a little more competitive process than it was in the past, whether it was a carrier or reinsurer.

Speaker Change: The next question we have is from Randolph Binner of B. Riley. Please go ahead.

Randy Benner: Oh, hey, good evening. Thanks. I guess I just, I have a couple of follow-ups to the prior questions. I guess then...

Randy Benner: Just on your kind of career by-back, but more I think kind of a broader relationship with insurers and re-insurers, Jay, as you said, I think you said it was engaged in the quarter, but is that kind of a notable item in life solutions, is there a way to kind of

Quantify that versus, you know, third parties.

Speaker Change: Sure. The way that we look at the carrier program versus, you know,

Speaker Change: Selling the Policies outright is that you know from our perspective it's important that obviously that that area will continue to grow but beyond that, you know we're looking at this from who can pay the most for the contract.

Right, and so...

Speaker Change: In this example, we're looking at this and we're seeing pretty strong investor demand and it's going to be a little more competitive process than it was in the past, whether it was a carrier or re-insured.

Jay Jackson: With that said, the growth potential and opportunity is significant and continues to grow as we continue conversations and add more relationships. And the first part of your question was, I think, a little bit more about, you know, how are our relationships growing with carriers and how do they stand with carriers and reinsurers? You know, we have multiple solutions for them. It's not just the buyback. You know, some of the things that we're able to offer them is, for example, our mortality verification program, where we've built, I think, a very competitive program there. And, you know, we're signing up, continue to sign up significant pension funds.

with that side.

The Growth

Potential Opportunity

Speaker Change: is significant and continues to grow as we continue conversations and add more relationships.

Speaker Change: and the first part of your question was, I think, a little bit more about, you know, how are our relationships growing with carriers, and how do they stand with carriers and reentures?

Speaker Change: You know, we have multiple solutions for them. It's not just the buyback.

Speaker Change: You know, some of the things that we're able to offer that is, for example, our mortality verification program.

where we've built, I think, a very competitive...

Speaker Change: program there and you know we're signing up continue to sign up significant pension funds you'll you'll see in our public deck how that business is as which will be out shortly as continued to grow and we're adding reinsurers and carriers so it's really interesting is that even beyond the buyback we are we're growing into a service provider for them they're looking at us for other alternative asset solutions that they might be able to invest in so when we think about our ETF strategies and other things that we're doing

Jay Jackson: You'll see in our public deck how that business is, which will be out shortly, has continued to grow. And we're adding reinsurers and carriers. So, it's really into a service provider for them. They're looking at us for other alternative asset solutions that they might be able to invest in. So, when we think about our ETF strategies and other things that we're doing, we're able to potentially source several types or several areas of revenue from the same carrier beyond just buyback. And I think that's what I'm really absolutely thrilled about, is that we are what I believe to be very good partners.

Speaker Change: We're able to potentially source several types or several areas of revenue from the same carrier beyond just buy back. And I think that's what I'm really absolutely thrilled about is that we are what I believe to be very good partners and because of that partnership is evolved into other revenue opportunities.

Jay Jackson: And because of that partnership, it's evolved into other revenue opportunities.

Randy Binner: All right, that's very helpful. I appreciate that.

Speaker Change: All right, that's very helpful. I appreciate that, and then I'll jump to maybe the smallest line I know, but it's interesting. So it's technology solutions of phone line item in this new reporting and it's so...

Jay Jackson: And then I'll jump to maybe the smallest line item, but it's interesting. So it's technology solutions is its own line item in this new reporting. That's great. Can you give any update just like on the number of clients you have there and kind of where that is in its lifecycle? Sure, you know, the way that we tend to track this, and you'll see this in our deck as an ongoing KPI, is the number of lives, right, like you, because ultimately, this is a business that's charged for life. So, you know, we're seeing that grow pretty significantly, and the number of lives that we have is just under a million, it stands today, and we've got another 700 plus thousand in trial, which means that, you know, those are clients that we're in process of potentially bringing on.

Speaker Change: That's great. Can you give any update just like on the number of clients you have there and kind of where that is in its life cycle?

Speaker Change: Sure, you know, the way that we tend to track this and you'll see this in our deck as an ongoing KPIs, the number of lives.

right back in June .

Jay Jackson: And so, you know, that business will continue to evolve and grow very, very quickly. I think that as you add larger clients, which we've done, you tend to catch by word of mouth through other opportunities with other large pension clients, reinsurers, and even carriers. But again, what I point out about that business, which also gets me very excited, it can also be an entry point to other revenue sources for us, meaning asset management. So now we're having asset management conversations with some of our mortality verification clients, and that's why we're, this is the first time that you're starting to see that breakout.

the leading authority.

Speaker Change: So now we're having asset management conversations with some of our mortality verification clients and

Speaker Change: That's why this is the first time that you're starting to see that breakout. Thank you for noticing it, where you'll see the AVL type of AVL technologies separated from the asset management, separated from, of course, the active management. And this is all in our overall goal to be able to show you how we're diversifying our revenue, we're growing substantially, we're meeting all of the targets that we've put out to do and we'll continue that process.

Jay Jackson: Thank you for noticing it, where you'll see that, you know, the ABL tech or the ABL technologies separated from the asset management, separated from, of course, the active management. And this is all in our overall goal, to be able to show you how we're diversifying our revenue, we're growing substantially, we're meeting all of the targets that we put out to do. And we'll continue that process.

Randy Binner: All right. Appreciate it. Thank you. Sure.

All right, appreciate it. Thank you.

Randy Binner: Thanks, Randy.

Andrew Kligerman: The next question we have is from Andrew Kligerman of TD Securities. Please go ahead. Hey, thanks a lot. Good afternoon. I guess a few follow ups as well.

Speaker Change: The next question we have is from Andrew Kligerman of TD Securities. Please go ahead.

Andrew Kligerman: Hey, thanks a lot, good afternoon. I guess a few follow-ups as well. I'm the capital deployed for policy originations 125.9, similar to the number last quarter.

Andrew Kligerman: On the capital deployed for policy originations, 125.9, similar to the number last quarter, how should we, Jay, you kind of talked a bit in depth about it and seemed very excited. Should we see that start to come up? Or do you kind of want to keep it level? How do we see that playing out for the next several quarters? Sure. I mean, there's a couple of drivers, right, from a crystal ball basis. I'm not sure how that looks. Right. But what I can share with you is that I think that we're starting to find consistency within our balance sheet.

Andrew Kligerman: How should we... Jay, you kind of talked a bit in depth about it and seemed very excited. Should we see that start to come up or do you kind of want to keep it level? How do we see that playing out for the next several corners?

Andrew Kligerman: Sure, I mean there's a couple drivers right from a crystal ball basis I'm not sure how that looks right, but what I can share with you Is is it I think that we're starting to find consistency within our balance sheet, and you know 125.9 million in this case You know kind of puts us a kind of how we're fully deployed And then we're able to recycle that capital and continue from there as policyholder

Jay Jackson: And, you know, one hundred twenty five point nine million in this case, you know, kind of puts us at kind of how we're fully deployed. And then we're able to recycle that capital and continue from there as policy holder demand continues, meaning that policy holders are still seeking more liquidity and we have more policies to purchase, which we think that we'll continue to see in twenty five and twenty six. We expect growth there. And when that happens, we're matching capital alongside that growth. And that's where I think that the asset management has been really important.

Andrew Kligerman: Demand continues, meaning that policy holders are still seeking more liquidity and we have more policies to purchase which we think that we'll continue to see in 25 and 26. We expect growth there.

and when that happens we're matching capital alongside that growth.

Andrew Kligerman: and that's where I think that the asset management has been really important and that's why we broke it out for you so you know as you see these numbers begin to increase it's going to be demand driven and also investor driven and that's why [inaudible]

Jay Jackson: And that's why we broke it out for you. So, you know, as you see these numbers begin to increase, it's going to be demand driven and also investor driven. And that's why, you know, I keep kind of bringing us back to this market that we're in today.

Andrew Kligerman: You know, I keep kind of bringing us back to this market that we're in today. I don't know very many companies that are as well positioned as Abacus is, you know, in 2025 for this, you know, potentially volatile markets that we're going to continue and certainly remain in for the remainder of the year.

Andrew Kligerman: I don't know of very many companies that are as well positioned as Abacus is, you know, in twenty twenty five for this, you know, potentially volatile markets that we're going to continue and certainly remain in for the remainder of the year. Got it. And.

Got it, and...

Jay Jackson: Maybe a little color on Carlisle since you've acquired it. How many months has it been on board now? And, you know, how do you see assets growing within Carlisle over the next couple of years? Like, what do you think the opportunity is there? Sure, we obviously think the opportunity is significant, but for a number of reasons. We did close on that transaction the first week of December, so now we're, you know, through May now, we're approximately six months in, but if we're talking about Q1, that would have been December, and then the first quarter of 25 is what this reporting period is.

Speaker Change: Maybe a little color on Carlisle since you've acquired it. How many months has it been on board now? And, you know, are UC assets growing within Carlisle over the next couple of years? What do you think the opportunity is there?

Speaker Change: Sure, we obviously think the opportunity is significant, but for a number of reasons. We did close on that transaction in the first week of December , so now we're.

Speaker Change: You know, through May now, we're approximately six months in, but if we're talking about Q1 that would have been December and then

Speaker Change: The first quarter of 25 is what this reporting period is.

Jay Jackson: And over that timeframe, you know, we were quite pleased with a couple of things related to that acquisition. First is the integration. We were and have successfully begun to integrate what I think is pretty seamlessly a number of the synergies that we spoke about from servicing to valuation, et cetera, and we've seen that in now our first earnings with those funds included. Secondly, they've been incredibly active out having this conversation and raising capital globally. You know, the thing to remember, they're based in Luxembourg, but predominantly their assets are from investors all overseas, and so, you know, they've been traveling the world in several different locations from, you know, Asia and all over Europe, you know, telling this story, and they've begun to have, I think, some significant success.

Speaker Change: and over that time frame, you know, we were quite pleased with a couple of things related to that acquisition.

Speaker Change: First is the integration. We were in a successfully begun to integrate what I think is pretty seamlessly a number of the synergies that we spoke about from servicing the valuation, etc. And we've seen that in now our first earnings with the

Speaker Change: with those funds included. Secondly, they've been incredibly active out having this conversation and raising capital globally. The thing to remember, they're based on Luxembourg, but predominantly their assets are from...

Speaker Change: Investors all overseas and so they've been traveling the world in several different locations from Asia and all over Europe telling this story and they've begun to have I think some significant success. Thank you very much.

Jay Jackson: I'll add one additional piece to this. A number of their investors are also interested in the stock, right, whereas before they might have been limited to a single discussion just on to invest in the individual funds, and now they're saying, gosh, you know, we should maybe even add to our position or add to a larger position in not just the investment within their funds, but also an investment in the stock. So, I think that is part of the compelling reasons why, you know, that asset manager, Carlisle specifically, is going to continue to have success. As we continue to tell our story, this is a synergy business that not only do we have additional revenue sources, but on top of that, the story itself has become far more streamlined, and it's made it easier for investors to invest both in Abacus as well as Got it.

Speaker Change: I'll add one additional piece of this. A number of their investors are also interested in the stock.

Speaker Change: Right? Whereas before they might have been limited to a single discussion just on to invest in the individual funds and now they're saying gosh, you know, we should maybe even add to our position or add to a larger position and not just the investment.

Speaker Change: with their funds but also an investment in the stock. So I think that is part of the compelling reasons why that asset manager, Carlisle, specifically is going to continue to have success.

Speaker Change: As we continue to tell our story, this is a synergy business that not only do we have additional revenue sources, but on top of that, the story itself has become far more streamlined and it's made it easier for investors to invest both in Abacus as well as in their funds.

Speaker Change: and Jay, the stocks, I mean, you've had a couple, you've been streaming together a bunch of very strong quarters and the stock is not reacting as one would expect.

Andrew Kligerman: And Jay, the stock, I mean, you've had a couple, you've been stringing together a bunch of very strong quarters and the stock is not reacting as one would expect. Given that, do you get inquiries on M&A that companies might want to acquire you for the very reasons why these non-correlated assets are attractive to investors? You know, maybe just some thoughts on the stock performance, because your operating performance warrants a lot more upside in the stock.

Speaker Change: Given that, do you get inquiries on M&A that companies might want to acquire you for the very reasons why these non-correlated assets are attractive to investors, but

Speaker Change: You know, maybe just some thoughts on the stock performance because your operating performance warns a lot more upside in the stock.

Jay Jackson: Well, thank you for saying that. We believe that as well. And we're going to continue to tell our story. That's what I believe is the secret to this. And one of the things you heard that we announced in this call is that, you know, one, the rebranding is working. And as you begin to tell that story, and people have a better understanding of what Abacus does on not just our life solutions division, but our asset management, our technology. And as we're taking a good look at what we can do in our upcoming wealth division. As those segments of the business continue to grow, and we continue to diversify that revenue, we believe that would be reflected in the stock price.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Well, thank you for saying that. We believe that as well, and we're going to continue to tell our story.

Speaker Change: That's what I believe is the secret to this. And one of the things you heard that we announced in this call is that, you know, one, the rebranding is working. And as you begin to tell that story, and people gather better understanding of what Abacus does on not just our life solutions division, but our asset management technology. And as we're taking a good look at what we can do in our upcoming wealth division. And as you begin to tell that story, we're taking a good look at what we can do in our future.

Speaker Change: As those segments of the business continue to grow and we continue to diversify that revenue, we believe that would be reflected in the stock price.

Jay Jackson: And over time, we think that that's definitely going to occur. And I would say, in the short term, or in the near term, over the last, like, let's just say 30 days, the stocks perform quite well against the Russell 2000, the S&P, and almost every index out there. So you know, I've actually been quite pleased the way the investors have viewed our company, as the type of company that is well positioned to perform as well in this type of volatile environment. So, you know, where we where we sit today as a stock price, I agree with you, there's certainly a lot of room to go.

Speaker Change: and over time, we think that that's definitely going to occur. And I would say in the short term or in the near term, over the last like which is say 30 days, the stocks perform quite well against the Russell 2000, the S&P, almost every index out there. So, you know, I've actually been quite pleased the way the investors have viewed our company.

Speaker Change: as the type of company that is well positioned and performs well in this type of volatile environment. So, where we sit today as a stock price, I agree with you, there's certainly a lot of room to go, and I think that that's going to be realized, right?

Jay Jackson: And I think that that's going to be realized, right? What I know, and you've been in the market a long time, you know, you start to string these quarters together. And ultimately, what happens is, is that the market is incredibly efficient. And as we continue to tell our story with an efficient market over time, this stock, I think will be, you know, potentially much more what you and I both agree would be fairly valued based upon the earnings and, and, and the company that we have. So we're doing we will and will continue to do everything we can to tell this story and get this story out.

Speaker Change: What I know, and you've been at the market a long time, you start to string these quarters together, and ultimately what happens is that the market is incredibly efficient. And as we continue to tell our story within an efficient market over time, this stock I think will be potentially much more of what you and I both agree would be fairly valued based upon the earnings and the company that we have. So we're doing, we will and we'll continue to do everything we can to tell this story and get this story out. But the great news for us right now, [inaudible]

Jay Jackson: But the great news for us right now in these volatile markets, gosh, you know, shareholders and investors are looking for stories like ours. And, and we're going to, you know, get on the front front of this. And we're going to start running advertisements in relationship to this, whether that's television, etc, really talking about a rebranding, and it's going to continue to have an impact.

Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Gosh, shareholders and investors are looking for stories like ours and we're going to get on the front of this and we're going to start running advertisements in relationship to this whether that's television etc. I'm really talking about our rebranding and it's going to continue to have an impact so thank you for that question.

Jay Jackson: So thank you for that.

Andrew Kligerman: Yeah, so it sounds like then no urgency for any M&A. It sounds like you're going to continue to execute. Is that the right read? I think that's the yeah, we it's our job to continue to execute what I can't control is is M&A and inquiries and those kinds of things like who knows what that means, right? Like, you know, from our perspective, the best thing we can do for our shareholders is to continue to deliver quarters like we That's what matters. And I think as we continue to execute, all the other things will take care of themselves.

Speaker Change: Yeah, so it sounds like there's no urgency for any M&A. It sounds like you're going to actually continue to execute is that is that the right read?

Speaker Change: I think that's the... Yeah, it's our job to continue to execute. When I can't control it's M&A and inquiries and those kinds of things, like who knows what that means, right? Like, you know, from our perspective, the best thing we can do for our shareholders is to continue to deliver quarters like we just did.

Speaker Change: That's one of the matters, right? And I think as we continue to execute.

Jay Jackson: And I believe that's going to happen in the near term. I think from our perspective, we're more interested in M&A on our end, meaning that are there opportunities we should be taking advantage of? We've got great earnings. One of the things I'm most proud of is that our EBITDA margin actually increased Q4 to Q1. We're up to 55% EBITDA margin. And so from that perspective, what are some great uses of the stock that we might have in our treasury as well as the cash we have on the balance sheet, assuming that they're very, very accretive?

Speaker Change: And so from that perspective, you know, what are some great uses of the stock that we might have in our treasury as well as in cash we have on the balance sheet, assuming that they're very, very creative. So, we're on the flip side, Andrew, I would say that we're looking at opportunities.

Jay Jackson: So we're on the flip side, Andrew. I would say that we're looking at opportunities.

Jay Jackson: and one last one just to kind of Get a sense of your inbound policies that you're acquiring, Jay. Could you give a sense of the mix? What percent was directed consumer versus advisors versus specialists? Sure. We've seen this adjust quarter to quarter, it just depends, but historically, and kind of where we saw things in the first quarter, about 40% of our flow was in direct to consumer, approximately 40% was from our financial advisory division, and about 20% was from what we call our brokerage division, and that continues to stay fairly consistent. We will occasionally see, it depends on the quarter and the level of advertising we do, we'll see that direct-to-consumer increase, but between financial advisors and brokers and then direct-to-consumers, ideally that split is, we'll kind of see this 50-50 blend, and we're based on that.

In one last one, just to kind of-

Andrew Kligerman: Get a sense of your inbound policies that you're acquiring, Jay, could you give a sense of the mix? What percent was directed consumer versus advisors versus specialists?

Andrew Kligerman: We've seen this adjust quarter to quarter, it just depends, but historically and kind of where we saw things in the first quarter, about 40% of our flow was in direct consumer. Approximately 40% was from our financial advisory division and about 20% was from what we call our brokerage division.

and Lee.

Andrew Kligerman: That continues to stay fairly consistent. We will occasionally see, it depends on the quarter and the level of advertising we do. We'll see that direct to consumer and increase, but, you know, between financial advisors and brokers, what, and then direct to consumers. Ideally, that split is, we'll kind of see this 50-50 blend and we're basically there.

Andrew Kligerman: Perfect.

Andrew Kligerman: Thanks a lot. Awesome.

Perfect. Thanks a lot.

Operator: Thank you, Andrew.

Awesome. Thank you, Andrew.

Mike Grondahl: Ladies and gentlemen, just another reminder, if you would like to ask a question, you may press star and then 1.

Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, just another reminder, if you would like to ask a question, you try my pre-star and then one.

William McCauley: The next question we have is from Mike Grondahl of Northland Securities. Please go ahead. Hey, guys. Thanks and congrats on a nice start. Um, my first question On the AUM, you mentioned $123 million. Did that relate only to the private funds and then you had an additional or incremental $44 million? inflows on the ETFs. Could you just clarify that? Did I hear that right? Yes, so the longevity funds are the private funds brought in new assets in Q1 of 100, just under 123 million, I think. And then in the ETF strategies, the real asset strategy increased in AUM by about $44 million, which if you consider the market conditions, I think some of that makes sense.

Speaker Change: The next question we have is from Mike Grondahl of Northland Securities. Please go ahead.

Mike Grondahl: Hey guys, thanks, and congrats on a nice start. My first question.

Speaker Change: On the AUM, you mentioned $123 million. Did that relate only to the private funds and then you had an additional or incremental $44 million?

Mike Grondahl: Inflow's on the ETF. Could you just clarify that? Did I hear that right?

Mike Grondahl: Yes, so the the longevity funds of the private funds brought in new assets in Q1 of 100 just under 123 million, I think it's 122.8

Mike Grondahl: and then in the ETF strategies, the real asset strategy increased in AUM by about 44 million, which if you consider the market conditions, I think some of that makes sense. And so the ETF strategies combined with what we did in the...

William McCauley: And so the ETF strategies combined with what we did in the...

William McCauley: The longevity fund assets that totaled I think we believe we had this in the in the release is around 150 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, 60 160 million in net net new flows and about 160 million in net net new flows are Part of that when you look at the ETFs, even though the real assets was up 44, there were there were a couple of the other funds that had some light, lighter redemptions, but it still left them positive net inflows for the quarter. And that's when you look at total net inflows or total net inflows for the quarter was was almost 160 million between all the And that's when you look at total net inflows for the quarter was almost 160 million between got it, great.

Mike Grondahl: The longevity-fine assets. It gets total. I think we have this in the in the release is around 150.

Yeah.

Mike Grondahl: Yeah, yeah, nearly 60, 160 million in net new flows in the nose. It's about 160 million in that net new flows are just under part of that when you look at the eat you absolutely know the real assets was up 44 there were there were a couple of the other funds that had some light.

Mike Grondahl: Lighter Redemptions, but it still left them positive net inflows for the quarter. And that's when you look at total net inflows or total net inflows for the quarter was almost 160 million between all the assets.

Mike Grondahl: Got it. Great. And I see in the financial, the asset management revenue of $7.7 million.

William McCauley: And I see in the financials, the asset management revenue of $7.7 million. in the first quarter. Did you guys disclose like a consolidated AUM balance at March 31st? I didn't see that, like, totally. Yes, so that'll be in our financial supplement that'll be put out here shortly. Okay.

Speaker Change: in the first quarter. Did you guys disclose, like, a consolidated AUM balance at March 31st? I didn't see that. Like, totally AUM.

Speaker Change: Yes, so that'll be in our financial supplement that'll be put out here shortly.

Okay.

Speaker Change: Okay, it's in the supplement. Okay, and then is there any updated timeline on ABL Wealth, kind of the advisor strategy you're implementing there.

William McCauley: Okay, and then, is there any updated timeline on ABL Wealth, kind of the advisor strategy you're implementing there? Mike, thanks for asking. And we've actually, we're just worked through it, a recent name change on that from ABL Wealth to Abacus. Wealth Advisors. And I think we put that in the press release, but it's now being titled Abacus Wealth Advisors. And from an update perspective, we are still in process, I think, of some pretty interesting opportunities that we look forward to sharing. Foundation. But our target for this year is to have that continue to grow and have some significant opportunities there come to realization, you know, potentially.

Speaker Change: and my thanks for asking. And we've actually were just worked through a recent name change on that from ABL Welp to Abacus.

Speaker Change: and Wolf Advisors. And I think we put that in the press release, but it's now being titled Advocates to Wolf Advisors. From an update perspective, we are still in process. I think of some pretty interesting opportunities that we look forward to sharing with you as soon as

Speaker Change: who's come to fruition, but our target for this year is to have that continue to grow and have some significant opportunities there come to realization, you know, potentially Q-3, Q-4.

William McCauley: got it. As we come into 26, you know, our anticipation is is that the financial advisor will be a meaningful part of our revenue. Okay.

Speaker Change: As we come into 26, our anticipation is that the financial advisor division will be a meaningful part of our revenue split.

Perfect. Perfect. Okay. Hey, thanks guys.

William McCauley: Hey, thanks. Thank you.

Operator: At this stage there are no further questions and I would like to turn the floor back over to Jay Jackson for any closing Thank you again to everyone for joining our call. We are absolutely thrilled after a very strong and historic first quarter for us. And what I think that I feel even better about is that we're well positioned for the remainder of 2025. We are remaining and keeping our guidance intact at $70 to $78 million of adjusted net income, which is a 51% to 68% increase year over year. So as we continue our process, Abacus is well positioned as a company to continue this growth, and we look forward to speaking to you next quarter.

Speaker Change: Thank you. At the stage, we all know for the questions, and I would like to turn the floor back over to Jay Jackson for any closing remarks.

Jay Jackson: Thank you again to everyone for joining our call. We are absolutely thrilled after a very strong and historic first quarter for us.

Speaker Change: What I think that I feel even better about is that we're well positioned for the remainder of 2025.

Speaker Change: We are remaining in keeping our guidance intact at 70 to 78 million dollars of adjusted net income, which is a 51% to 68% increase.

Speaker Change: Year Over Year. So as we continue our process, Abacus is well positioned as a company to continue this growth and we look forward to speaking to you next quarter.

Jay Jackson: That concludes today's conference. Thank you for joining us.

Operator: You may now disconnect your line.