Q4 2024 Zenvia Inc Earnings Call
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Operator: You have joined the meeting as an attendee and will be muted throughout the meeting. Good morning and thank you for standing by.
Speaker Change: You have joined the meeting as an attendee and will be needed throughout the meeting.
Speaker Change: Good morning, and thank you for standing by welcome <unk> Q4, and 2024 earnings Conference call. Today's speakers are Mr. Cassio boxing, Xynthia, solider, and CEO and Shai shore Sea.
Operator: Welcome to Zenvia's Q4 2024 Earnings Conference Call. Today's speakers are Mr. Cassio Bobsin, Zenvia's Founder and CEO, and Shay Chor, CFO and Investor Relations Officer. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded and a replay will be available at the company's IR website, where you can also access today's presentation. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode.
Shai Shore: CFO and Investor Relations Officer.
Shai Shore: Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded and a replay will be available at the company's IR website, where you can also access todays presentation.
Speaker Change: At this time all participants are in a listen only mode. After the prepared remarks, there will be a question and answer session for the Q&A session. We ask you to write down your question via a Q&A icon at the bottom of your screen. Your name will then be announced and will be able to ask your questions live at this point that request to activate T O.
Operator: After the prepared remarks, there will be a question and answer session, and for the Q&A session, we ask you to write down your question via the Q&A icon at the bottom of your screen. Your name will then be announced and you'll be able to ask your question live. At this point, a request to activate your microphone will appear on your screen. If you do not want to open your microphone live, please write down no microphone at the end of your question. In this case, our operator will read your question aloud.
Shai Shore: Microphone will appear on your screen.
Speaker Change: If you do not want to open new microphone live please write down no microphone at the end of your question in this case, our operator will read your questions aloud now I'd like to welcome one of our speakers for today, Mr. Cassio, Bobzien founder and CEO, Sir the floor is yours.
Cassio Bobsin: Now, I'd like to welcome one of our speakers for today, Mr. Cassio Bobsin, Founder and CEO. Sir, the floor is yours. Good morning, everyone.
Speaker Change: Good morning, everyone, having cost you about <unk> founder and CEO. Thank you for joining us here today I'd like to start by talking briefly about the IRA evolution. We are all witnessing as we look around the world in Brazil, It's clear that the ice no longer promise AI has become a strategic priority for companies look.
Cassio Bobsin: I'm Cacio Babson, Founder and CEO. Thank you for joining us here. I'd like to start by talking briefly about the AI revolution we are all witnessing. As we look around the world and in Brazil, it's clear that AI is no longer a promise. AI has become a strategic priority for companies looking to reinvent how they connect. In global markets, we see AI driving everything from personalized product recommendations, proactive, cost-effective. Brands are using AI to automate workflows, understand intent in real time, and scale human-like conversations across channels. In Brazil, this trend is also accelerating. Businesses of all sizes, from large banks and retailers to fast-growing startups, are all integrating AI into their CX strategies to improve efficiency, reduce response times, and deepen customer relationships.
Speaker Change: To reinvent how they connect with customers and global markets with Ci driving everything from personalized product recommendations proactive customer service brands are using AI to automate workflows understand intent in real time and scale <unk> conversations across channels in Brazil. This trend is also accelerating businesses.
Speaker Change: Paul size us for large banks and retailers to fast growing startups are all integrating AI teacher DRC access strategies to improve efficiency reduce response times and deepening customer relationships, but customers today, it's only even a single platform they move across whatsapp things to grow our mail chat from us all of us.
Cassio Bobsin: But customers today don't live on a single platform. They move across WhatsApp, Instagram, on mail, chat, SMS, all this expecting fluid, personalized and consistent. every touchpoint. That is why AI is in the Ricelor Corpuleur of how companies engage with their auditors. and how they can sell more and serve better. And this is exactly where Zenvia's focus is, empowering businesses to unify those interactions and bring intelligence, context, and skill to every conversation, no matter the channel.
Speaker Change: Expecting fluids personalized clinical assistant experiences at every touch point that is why AI isn't just a.
Speaker Change: Small core pillar of how companies engage with their audience and how they can sell more serve better our customers and this is exactly where zoom just sockets and <unk> businesses to unify those interactions and Brigham intelligence context and scale to every conversation no matter the channel.
Cassio Bobsin: Let's see the next slides. This AI revolution marks the beginning of our new strategic cycle that we announced in January, as it builds on what we achieved in 2024 and sets the stage for more innovation, efficiency, and value creation. Strategic cycles play a critical role in shaping the direction and growth of companies and allow us to adapt to market changes, focus our resources and position ourselves for long-term goals. It is always worth remembering that Zenvia's mission since our inception over 20 years ago has always been to revolutionize the experience that customers have with companies and their recognize three distinct strategic cycles so far in this mission.
Speaker Change: Let's see the next slides these AI revolution marks the beginning of our new strategic cycle.
Speaker Change: In January as it builds on what we achieved in 2024 and sets the stage for more innovation efficiency and value creation moving forward strategic cycles play a critical role in shaping the direction and growth of companies and allow us to adapt to market changes <unk>, our resources and position ourselves for long term success.
Speaker Change: You're just always worth remembering that Santos mission since our inception over 20 years ago has always been to revolutionize the experience that customers have with companies and brands will recognize three distinct strategic cycle. So far and this mission and we just closed third one launch the fourth one as you can see in this.
Cassio Bobsin: And we just closed the third one and launched the fourth one. As you can see, We had our first cycle, which was basically our startup phase after being born in a garage as an SMS provider. Then evolved to the second cycle, where we expanded our messaging capabilities and consolidated ourselves as the leading SMS broker in Brazil with a series. The third and latest strategic cycle began in 2018, when we decided to evolve from a leading Brazilian CEPAS to become the most comprehensive CXF in Latin America. After a series of acquisitions held before and after our IPO of companies that not only complemented our CEPAS business, but also reinforced our strategy and vision.
Speaker Change: We had our first cycle, which was basically our startup phase after being born in a garage with NASA mass provider.
Speaker Change: <unk> evolved to the second cycle are we expanded our messaging capabilities and consolidated ourselves as the leading SMS broker in Brazil with a series of acquisitions.
Speaker Change: This third and latest strategic cycle began in 2018, when we decided to evolve from a leading Brazilian surpassed <unk> to become the most comprehensive CX SaaS Latin American after a series of acquisitions held before and after our IPO of companies that not only complement at our supplies business, but also reinforced our strategy envisions.
Speaker Change: For the future all overcoming challenges in their integration, we officially launched the zain for customer to cloud in 2020 for Vivek.
Cassio Bobsin: all overcoming challenges in their integration.
Cassio Bobsin: We officially launched the Zenvia Customer Cloud in... Zenvia Customer Cloud is the culmination of this vision and it's now our core business moving forward. So, as of January 2025, we have entered our fourth strategic cycle, centering on accelerating the growth of our newly defined Let's dive in on Zenvia Customer Cloud on the next slide. We're truly excited about Zenvia Customer Cloud and the immense potential it brings to our company. This platform represents a pivotal milestone in our journey and in our commitment to enhance... Zenvia Customer Cloud is powered by AI-driven solutions and robust data analytics and is designed to adapt seamlessly to businesses of all sizes and across diverse Clients already using it report enhanced customer engagement, increased sales and reduced costs.
Speaker Change: Vivek. This is the combination of these vision is now our core business moving forward. So as of January 25, we have.
Speaker Change: Our fourth strategic cycle centered on accelerating the growth of our newly defined core business.
Speaker Change: <unk> Xavier customer quality on the next slide Richard excited about Zimbra customer cloud and the EMS potential it brings to our company.
Speaker Change: This platform represents a milestone in our journey and in our commitment to enhancing customer experiences is if a customer calls is powered by AI driven solutions and robust data analytics and is designed to adapt simply two businesses a false sizes on across diverse industries clients already using it reported half of customer engaged.
Speaker Change: Increased sales and reduced coasts zimbra customer called was born with AI at its core to help companies not only automate, but truly personalized intelligence, especially when they're managing express of thousands of customers in a single unified environment.
Cassio Bobsin: Zenvia Customer Cloud was born with AI at its core, to help companies not only automate, but truly operationalize intelligence, especially when managing the experience of thousands of customers in a single, unified environment. It is important to highlight here that the launch of Zenvia Customer Cloud was leveraged by two important and strategic initiatives, the use of product-led growth, PLG, strategies, and our international expansion in land numbers. Our PLG strategies give users flexible and self-service access to our services. They can start small, explore features at their own pace and scale in an easy way as their needs grow.
Speaker Change: It is important to highlight here that the launch of Zimbra customer cloud with leverage by two important strategic initiatives do you use a throttle that growth <unk> <unk> and our international expansion in Latin America.
Speaker Change: Our <unk> strategy to give users flexible and self service access to our software.
Speaker Change: Small explore features at their own pace and scale in an easy way as their needs grow.
Cassio Bobsin: It's all made possible by integrating our services into this unified platform, which makes the experience intuitive and adaptable for businesses of any industry and size. Because it fits so well with what our clients need, it leads to higher adoption, stronger long-term relationships, and a scalable revenue model, positioning Zenvia for sustainable growth in a fast-moving market. Another key differentiator is our shift to a volume-based pricing model, where clients pay based on the number of interactions they have with their clients and prospects, rather than the traditional per-seat SaaS model that we have. This approach is enabled by an extensive use of AI in our software, which minimizes our customers' reliance on a human agent, enhances efficiency for their operations, and unlocks greater revenue regeneration potential for us with much less.
Speaker Change: The salt made possible by integrating our services into this unified platform, which makes the experience intuitive and adaptable for businesses of any industry and size because it fits so well with our clients need it leads to higher adoption stronger long term relationships and a scalable revenue model positioning zynga for sustainable growth.
Speaker Change: And a fast moving market. Another key differentiator is our shift to a volume based pricing model, where our clients pay based on the number of interactions they have with their clients and prospects rather than the traditional proceed SaaS model that we had before this approach is enabled by an extensive use of AI in our software which means.
Speaker Change: Our customers' reliance on <unk> been agents and passive efficiency further operations and unlocks greater revenue regeneration potential for us is much less complexity and our international expansion, particularly in Argentina, and Mexico, where we already had a presence is performing well and delivering results. These international clients are already delay.
Cassio Bobsin: and our international expansion, particularly in Argentina and Mexico, where we already had a presence, is performing well and delivering results. These international clients are already delivering a solid contribution to the success of the ZVE Customer Cloud, further validating our strategy. The initial results we already achieved with ZVE Customer Cloud in these first months leaves us energized not to mistake about the opportunities that lie ahead after this challenging 2024. As we enter this important new strategic cycle, we are laser-focused on driving organic growth by leveraging our unified platform and market evolving and accelerating our partnership ecosystem, boosting profitability through smarter operations and efficiency, while reducing leverage to re-strengthen our financial.
Speaker Change: A solid contribution to the success offers every customer cloud further validating our strategy. The initial results we already achieved with <unk> Mcleod in these first months leaves us energized and optimistic about the opportunities that lie a half. After this challenging 2024 as we enter this important new strategic cycle we are.
Speaker Change: Laser focused on driving organic growth by leveraging our unified platform and market opportunities.
Speaker Change: And accelerating our partnership ecosystem boosting profitability through smarter operations and efficiency, while reducing leverage to risk strengthen our financial foundation.
Cassio Bobsin: At the same time, we're committed to building the optimal capital structure to support our ambitions and ensure long-term results. These combined efforts are expected to position us to unlock meaningful, sustainable value as we move forward in our journey.
Speaker Change: Same time, we're committed to building the optimal capital structure to support our ambitions and ensure long term resilience. These combined efforts are expected to position last 20 lakh meaningful sustainable value as we move forward in our journey I'll now hand, the call over to Shai to present, our financial performance and I will be available for the Q&A session later.
Shay Chor: I'll now hand the call over to Shay to present our foundation performance and I'll be available for the Q&A session later. Thank you, Kasia. Good morning, everyone. Let's start on the next slide and continue talking about Zenvia Customer Cloud as Cassio just mentioned. This slide brings a snapshot of Zenvia Customer Cloud, which was officially launched back in October 24 and generated revenues of around R$180 million in the full year of 2015. We closed the year with almost 6,000 companies already using the platform, 20% of which were international companies, mainly from Mexico and Argentina. In terms of growth, we estimate that this operation will expand by 25% to 30% in 2025, achieving a gross margin of between 68% and 70% and positive EBITDA margin.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Thank you guys.
Speaker Change: Good morning, everyone.
Speaker Change: Let's back to the next slide and continuous talking about Sandvik is Mcdonald as Patrick.
Speaker Change: You just mentioned.
Speaker Change: Despite being a snapshot of the day the customer cloud, which was officially launched back in October 24, and generated revenues of around $180 million of ads in the full year of 24.
Speaker Change: We closed the year with almost 6000 companies already using the platform, 20% of which were international companies, mainly from Mexico and Argentina.
In terms of growth, we estimate that this operation will expand by 25% to 30%, 25% achieving a gross margin of between 60%, 70% and positive EBITDA margin.
Shay Chor: Our estimates are based on solid data showing the market is set to keep growing at a strong double-digit pace in the coming years. On top of that, our new unified operating model with advanced automation and AI and the acceleration of our partner ecosystem puts us in a better position to make the most of this opportunity. Let's now move to the next slide and talk to numbers from the quarter and the year.
Speaker Change: Our estimates are based on solid data showing the market set to keep growing at a strong double digit pace in the coming years on top of that our new unified operating model with advanced automation and AI and the acceleration of our partner ecosystem puts us in a better position to make the most of these opportunities.
Speaker Change: Let's now move to the next slide and talk the numbers from the quarter ended.
Speaker Change: Q4 was a particularly challenging quarter for us as several headwinds converging weighed on profitability. Despite continued topline growth and disciplined cost management.
Shay Chor: Q4 was a particularly challenging quarter for us, as several headwinds converged in the wake of unprofitability, despite continued top-line growth and disciplined cost management. Starting on the left, we can see revenues reaching R$231 million, up 7% year-over-year. This was primarily driven by a strong volume growth in CPS, which offset declines in SAS Revit. However, as we move to the next chart, we can see the pressure margin. Our adjusted gross profit declined 60% to R$49 million, with gross margin decreasing to 21%. There were two main drivers behind it. First, on the CPAS side, we saw higher mix in the quarter coming from strong growth, but at lower margins.
Speaker Change: Second Nonetheless, we can see revenues, reaching 231 million reais up 7% year over year.
Speaker Change: This was primarily driven by a strong volume growth in Cts, which offset declines in such revenues.
Speaker Change: However, as we move to the next chart.
Speaker Change: You can see the pressure on margins.
Speaker Change: Our adjusted gross profit declined 6% to $49 million, which was margin decreasing to 21%.
There were two main drivers behind this.
Speaker Change: First on the <unk> side, we saw higher mix in the quarter coming from strong growth, but at lower margins.
Shay Chor: This was further impacted by a R$27.8 million SMS cost adjustment related to the full year, but only recognized entirely in Q4, rather than being spread across previous quarters. As you can see in the center chart, this had a major effect on our CPAS gross profit and margin. If we exclude this one-time item, CPAS adjusted gross margin may have been close to 22%, which is much more in line with our expected range of 20% to 25%, as opposed to the reported 4%. We view this impact as a non-recurring and expect margins to normalize progressively over the course of 2025 as we move on with our strategy.
Speaker Change: This was further impacted by a $27 8 million rise SMS plus adjustment related to the full year, but the only recognized entirely in Q4, rather than being spread across the previous quarters.
Speaker Change: As you can see in the Center chart.
Speaker Change: He has had a major effect on our gross profit and margin.
Speaker Change: If you exclude this one time item.
Speaker Change: Adjusted gross margin would have been close to 22%, which is much more in line with our expected range of plenty for 25% as opposed to the reported 4%.
Speaker Change: We view this impact as a nonrecurring and expect margins to normalize progressively over the course of 2025 as we move on with our strategy.
Shay Chor: Second, in SAS, margins declined due to tighter profitability from our enterprise clients, who continue to operate in a highly competitive environment. Additionally, we incurred higher costs related to the launch of the end-of-customer cloud. As we continue rolling out this new operation, we expect to see better results from our SAS segment throughout 2025. As a result of all these effects, CEPESA adjusted gross profit to only R$6 million, while FAS reached R$43 million, with margin declining in both segments. Ibiza, when excluding earn-out expenses and the SMS interest I just mentioned, closed the quarter at R$35 million, a 6% decline versus the R$37 million recorded in Q4 2020.
Speaker Change: Second in SaaS margins declined to better profitability from our enterprise clients, who continue to operate in a highly competitive environment.
Speaker Change: Additionally, we incurred higher costs related to the launch of named it the Smith well.
Speaker Change: As we continue rolling out the new operations, we expect to see better results from our south segment throughout 2025.
Speaker Change: As a result of both these effects.
Speaker Change: <unk> adjusted gross profit was only $6 million, while SaaS, which 43 million with margin declining in both segments.
Speaker Change: When excluding one off expenses in the SMS impact I, just mentioned for the quarter 35, million% to 6% decline versus the 37 million recorded in Q4.
Shay Chor: We expect this level to be a recurring quarterly EBITDA going into 2025.
Speaker Change: We expect this level to be a recurring quarterly EBITDA going into 'twenty five.
Shay Chor: Let's now move to the analysis of the results of the year. In this slide we show our annual revenue and non-GAAP adjusted gross profit over the last three years. On the revenue side on the left, both segments presented growth in a period. The CFS market proved to be much more dynamic and volatile than expected, expanding 25% year-over-year between 2023 and 2024, after growing only 3% in the previous year, while SAS remained in a highly competitive environment, growing at high single digits in the same period as compared to double digits the year before. But this revenue performance, along with the margin impacts we just discussed, particularly from Q4, drove the overall gross margin compression in the year, as seen on the chart on the right.
Speaker Change: Let's now move to the analysis of the results of the year.
Speaker Change: In this slide we show our annual revenue and non-GAAP adjusted gross profit over the last three years.
Speaker Change: On the revenue side on the left both segments presented growth initiatives. The Cps market proved to be much more dynamic and volatile the unexpected expanded 25% year over year between 2002 mentioned before after growing only 3% in the previous year also has remained in a highly competitive environment grow at high single digits in the same period as compared to double digit.
Before.
Speaker Change: With this revenue performance along with the margin impacts we've just discussed, particularly from Q4 drove the overall gross margin compression in the year as seen on the chart on the right.
Shay Chor: Looking ahead, I would like to emphasize again here that we have been investing a lot on the integration of the SaaS solution. And we expect to start to leverage on the growth of SaaS under Zenvia Customer Cloud. As we move more and more into it, integrating all businesses into the new business model, the company is increasingly transitioning into a full size model, generating MRR through monthly subscription, seats, and usage volume.
Speaker Change: Looking ahead I would like to emphasize again that we have been investing a lot on the integration of the SaaS solution and we expect to start to leverage on the growth of SaaS and theirs Andrew Mcleod.
Speaker Change: As we move more and more into it integrating our business into the new business model the company's increasingly transitioning into a full <unk> model generating MRI monthly subscription seats and usage volume.
Shay Chor: Let's now look into the profitability for the year in more detail. This slide gives us a consolidated view on how gross profit and margin performed in 24. Again, profitability was impacted by the new reacquired CPEX clients with lower margins and the competitive environment for enterprise on SaaS, along with the cost adjustment we just discussed. I would like to highlight here that despite the impact this quarter, we believe this strategy with the newly acquired CTAS clients will pay off over the medium to long term as we deepen this relationship and we don't need additional G&A expenses to manage them.
Speaker Change: Let's now look into the profitability for the year in more detail.
Speaker Change: This slide gives us a consolidated view on how gross profit and margin performance at 24.
Speaker Change: Profitability was impacted by the newly acquired clients with lower margin and the competitive environment for enterprise on site along with the cost adjustments, we just discussed.
Speaker Change: I would like to highlight here that despite the impact this quarter. We believe this strategy with the newly acquired plants will pay off over the medium to long term as we deepen these relationships and we don't need additional G&A expenses to manage them moving on let's now discuss our journey.
Shay Chor: Moving on, let's now discuss our G&A. Over the past two years, we've stayed laser-focused on tightly controlling costs, cutting R33 million in G&A expenses in total, thanks to our streamlining efforts that started at the end of 2022, when our G&A to revenue ratio reached almost 23%. As you can see in this slide, this ratio went down to 12% in 24, from 16% in 23, and from 19.5% in 22, down by 760 basis points in this two-year period. We are very proud to have been able to pivot the company this way, improving both the productivity and profitability, which are vital for this next phase of growth, as Casio mentioned in his opening remarks.
Speaker Change: Over the past two years, we stay laser focused on tightly controlling costs.
Speaker Change: 32 million rise in G&A expenses in total they saw our streamlining effort that started at the end of 2002, when our G&A to revenue ratio reached almost 2%.
We continue this slide is ratio went down to 12% in 'twenty four from 16% in 'twenty three and from 19, 5% from 22 down by 760 basis points in this two year period.
Speaker Change: We are very proud to have been able to pivot the company. This way improving both the productivity and profitability, which are vital for this next phase of growth and as I mentioned in his opening remarks.
Shay Chor: As we enter 25, we remain committed to keeping our focus on streamlining our operations to drive efficiency. We announce in January a headcount reduction projected to generate cost savings of an additional 30 to 35 million reais in 2025, even after accounting for 7.6 billion reais. And we are also counting on AI and automation to have an even deeper impact in streamlining efforts moving forward. As a result of all our efforts on both the revenue side and the G&A side, EBITDA multiplied by almost five times in these two years, but fell short of the full year 24 guidance for the reason I already explained.
Speaker Change: As we enter 2005, we remain committed to keeping our focus on streamlining our operations to drive efficiency, we announced in January a head count reduction projected to generate cost savings.
Speaker Change: There has been 500 rising 35, even after accounting for severance expense.
Speaker Change: And we're also counting on AI and automation to have an even deeper impacting streamlining efforts moving forward.
Speaker Change: As a result of our efforts on both the revenue side and Jennie Tsai EBITDA multiplied by almost five times in two years, but fell short of this full year 'twenty guidance, but the reason I already explained.
Shay Chor: Even though our revenues went up 19% year-over-year to R$960 million and the G&A expenses went down 11% year-over-year, it was not enough to upset the lowest gross profit mark. We were frustrated that we couldn't reach our EBITDA values for 2024, but at the same time we were confident about 2025, given the early improvements we had already seen in the first month of the year.
Speaker Change: Even though our revenues went up 19% year over year to 960 million Reais in the G&A expenses went down 11% year over year.
Not enough to offset the lower gross profit margins.
Speaker Change: We're frustrated that we couldn't reach our EBITDA guidance for 'twenty four but at the same time, we are confident about 75, even the all improvements we have already seen in the first months of the year.
Speaker Change: Moving onto the next slide another key index that we always like to highlight is our EBITDA minus capex.
Shay Chor: Moving on to the next slide, another key index that we always like to highlight is our EBITDA minus 1. This metric not only highlights our operational efficiency, but also helps you understand how well we are positioning ourselves to leverage, fund future growth, maintain financial flexibility, and reward shareholders. As you can see in this slide, in 22, when we deducted the capex from our Ibiza, we still saw a negative figure. He turned positive in 23 and improved even more in 24, even considering the increase in CapEx related to the investments in data center distribution. When we look year over year, our EBITDA minus CAPEX improves R$26 million in 2024, but for the two years the performance is even better, an improvement of R$53 million.
Speaker Change: His metric not only highlights our operational efficiency, but also helps you understand how well we are positioning ourselves to deleverage Sun's future growth maintain financial flexibility and reward shareholders.
Speaker Change: As you can see this slide and thank you to when we did that to the Capex from our EBITDA, we still saw a negative figure.
Speaker Change: Positive in 'twenty, three and improved even more intently for even considering the increase in capex related to the investments in data center this year.
Speaker Change: When you look at year over year, our EBITDA minus Capex includes 26 million rising 24, but for the two years of performance is even better an improvement of 63 million Reais.
Shay Chor: We also ended the year with a cash balance of 117 million reais. We expect EBITDA to continue growing at a faster pace than our topics, as it has been the case for the last few years. CAPEX for 25 should remain in the same level of 24.
Speaker Change: We also ended the year with a cash balance of Homo heading into 17 million Reais.
Speaker Change: We expect EBITDA to continue growing at a faster pace than our capex as it has been the case for the last few years.
Speaker Change: Capex for 2500 remaining the same level 24 date.
Shay Chor: Zendvia Customer Cloud is the growth engine for our company from now on. Moving on to the next slide to talk about our next. As we move into this next phase, our focus remains clear. We'll continue to accelerate organic growth supported by the increasing scalability of our new platform. At the same time, we are streamlining operations even further, with AI playing a key role, not just in how we serve clients, but in how we operate internally with greater efficiency and intelligence. As a means to sharpen our focus on our core business and drive the expansion of our ecosystem, we'll carefully evaluate opportunities to divest on core assets, as we disclose in January.
Speaker Change: Data customer cloud is the growth engine for our company from now on.
Speaker Change: Moving on to the next slide to talk about our next steps.
Speaker Change: As you move into this next phase our focus remains clear with.
Speaker Change: To accelerate organic growth supported by the increase the scalability of our new platform at.
Speaker Change: At the same time, we are streamlining operations even further.
Speaker Change: A key role not just in how we serve clients, but in how we operate internally with greater efficiency and intelligence.
Speaker Change: As a means to sharpen our focus on our core business and drive the expansion of our ecosystem, we will carefully evaluate opportunities to divest noncore assets as we disclosed in January.
Shay Chor: We believe we own assets that hold significant value in their segments, and an opportunity to divestment to play a key role in optimizing our capital stream. As we embark on our new strategic cycle, we are focused on expanding Zendia Customer Cloud in Brazil and Latin America. Our priorities are accelerating organic growth while continuing to leverage the cloud. We are working hard for these actions to result in a more efficient company with exceptionally solid business metrics, enabling us to unlock value to our shareholders.
Speaker Change: We believe we own assets that hold significant value in their segments and an opportunistic divestments will play a key role and optimize our capital structure.
Speaker Change: As we embark on our new strategic cycle, we are focused on expanding <unk> Mcleod in Brazil, and Latin America.
Speaker Change: Our priority of accelerating organic growth, while continuing to deleverage the company.
Speaker Change: We are working hard for these actions to result in a more efficient company with access and solid business metrics, enabling us to unlock value for our shareholders.
Speaker Change: I Couldnt close this call without thanking you all for your support and 24, which as I said in the beginning of my prepared remarks, and transformative year for US. We appreciate your continued trust as we move ahead, we are committed to building a profitable and exciting future for Sanjay.
Cassio Bobsin: I couldn't close this call without thanking you all for your support in 24, which, as I said in the beginning of my prepared remarks, was a transformative year for us. We appreciate your continued trust as we move ahead. We are committed to building a profitable and exciting future for Zenia. Based on what we have seen so far, we expect to report a good start for the year with 2-1 numbers by mid-June. We cannot anticipate a specific number at this point, but I can say that we are seeing revenue growth picking up, SAS margin recovering, and EBITDA tracking at a healthy level.
Speaker Change: Based on what we have seen so far we expect to report a good start for the year with Q1 numbers by mid June.
Speaker Change: We cannot anticipate specific number at this point, but I can say that we are seeing revenue growth picking up SaaS margin recovery and EBITA tracking at healthy levels.
Operator: With this, we conclude our prepared remarks and we are ready to take your questions. We will now begin the question and answer session. Once again, for this Q&A session, we ask you to write down your question via the Q&A icon at the bottom of your screen. Your name will then be announced and you'll be able to ask your question live. At this point, the request to activate your microphone will appear on your screen. If you prefer not to open your microphone live, please write down no microphone at the end of your question and an operator will read your question aloud.
Speaker Change: This will conclude our prepared remarks, and we're ready to take your questions.
Speaker Change: We will now begin the question and answer session. Once again for this Q&A session. We ask you to write down your questions via the Q&A icon at the bottom of your screen. Your name will then be announced and will be able to ask your questions live at this point the request to activate your microphone will appear on your screen if you prefer.
Speaker Change: Now to open new microphone live please write down no microphone at the end of your question and operator, we read the question aloud.
Speaker Change: Our first question come from.
Shay Chor: Our first question comes from Armageddon. Two questions from me. Can you take it, Shay? Yeah, yeah. I'll read it and I'll answer. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Arm again.
Speaker Change: Two questions from me.
Speaker Change: Can you can you take a shy yeah, yeah, I'll I'll read it all that okay. All right. Thank you.
Shay Chor: So, first question. Could you provide clarity on Zenvia's full year 2025 revenue? And lastly, how should investors model the customer cloud segment? growth in relation to your traditional SASS CPEC. What extent do you anticipate customer cloud revenues to cannibalize existing revenue streams versus creating net?
Speaker Change: So first question could you provide clarity on the <unk> full year 2025 revenue outlook, specifically, how should the investors model the customer cloud segment, 25% to 30% projected growth in relation to your traditional SaaS <unk> lines to what extent do you anticipate customer club revenues to cannibalize existing revenue streams versus creating NAV.
Speaker Change: New growth.
Shay Chor: Thanks, Simon, for your question. I'll start by trying to separate the revenues here so it's easier. for everybody. When we think about the SaaS business, the entire. we generated approximatelyize 325,000 views per year. that we stated that Zenvia Customer Cloud was about 180 million reais. So that is the part that we are saying that it's going to grow about 25%. There are still about 140 million reais in other SACs. that we expect to... Flourish to 5% growth. So it's a SaaS, we can even consider that SaaS legacy business, so those are. and the M&A that we did, they don't fit under Zenvia Customer Cloud, but they still generate a decent revenue and they still generate a decent profitability.
Speaker Change: Thanks, Thomas for your question so.
Speaker Change: I'll start by trying to separate.
The revenues here.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
For everybody to understand.
Speaker Change: When we think about the SaaS business the entire sesame seeds in 'twenty, four we generated approximately $320 million.
Speaker Change: Rising in revenues given that we stated that saves the customer cloud was about 180 million reais.
Speaker Change: So that is the part that we are saying that it's going to grow about 25% to 30% of the 180 million reais to generate and then Theres Navy customer to cloud.
Speaker Change: There are still about a 140 million reais in other SaaS businesses.
Speaker Change: That we expect to be flattish to 5% growth. So it's a SaaS.
Speaker Change: We can even consider that SASSA legacy business. So those are busy in the M&A that we did.
Speaker Change: They don't fit our understanding of customer cloud, but they still generates a decent revenue and they still generate a decent profitability.
Shay Chor: So those are businesses that will keep investing to make them updated, but will not put a lot of effort to keep growing. are important clients that are with us for a while and we'll keep them with us investing in what they need but there will be no effort as we are putting effort Now on the C-pass.
Speaker Change: So those are businesses that will keep our.
Speaker Change: Investing to make them.
Speaker Change: Updated.
Speaker Change: But we will not put a lot of efforts to keep growing.
Speaker Change: Those businesses are very.
Speaker Change: Important clients that are with us for awhile, and we will keep them with us investing in what they need but there will be no effort as we are putting effort on zama costumer cloud now on the <unk> business.
Speaker Change: It's actually been surprising US 24 was surprising in terms of growth.
Shay Chor: It's actually been surprising us, 24 was surprising in terms of growth. We understand that. should be growing between 5% and 8%, but it grew way faster than... We are anticipating a 25% that is growing. It should move back to that 5% to 8% growth. But in the first couple of months of this year, we are seeing that CPAS continue to grow.
Speaker Change: We understand that this business should be growing.
Speaker Change: Between five and 8%, but to grow way faster than D. C. In 'twenty four.
Speaker Change: We are anticipating a 25% if it's growing it should.
Speaker Change: Move back to that 5% to 8% growth.
Speaker Change: But in the first couple of months of this year, we are seeing a seatback to continue growing.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Shay Chor: Second question, could you provide an update on the current status of your planned divestment? Has the company established any specific milestones or timeline for completing this process that you are able to share with investors? We are not able to share any. details on divestments. As we said on our January 13th state will be opportunistic on evaluating divestment alternatives. The main focus of the divestment improve our capital structure, so the leverage balance sheet, so that's what we should have. have in mind. On top of that, obviously, we'll continue doing all liability management that we need to do to the leverage balance sheet.
Speaker Change: Second question.
Speaker Change: Could you provide an update on the current status of your planned divestments has the company establish any specific milestones our timeline for completing this process that we're able to share with investors.
Speaker Change: We are not able to share any sort.
Speaker Change: Specific details on divestments as we said on our January 13.
Speaker Change: A safe statement.
Speaker Change: We'll be opportunistic on evaluating.
Speaker Change: Divestments alternatives.
Speaker Change: The main focus of the divestments.
Speaker Change: Is to.
Speaker Change: Improve our capital structure, so deleverage balance sheet. So that's what we should have our investors should have in mind.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: On top of that obviously, we will continue doing all liability management that we need to do to deleverage balance sheet. If you look into our.
Shay Chor: to our financial statements that we published late last year. in the subsequent events, we detail that we renegotiated that with the debts that we have with the loans that we have in banks. Most of them, we were granted a six.
Speaker Change: Financial statements that we published late last week.
Speaker Change: In our in the subsequent events we detail that.
Speaker Change: We renegotiated.
Speaker Change: That with the debts that we have with the loans that we have with banks most.
Speaker Change: Most of them, we were granted a six a six month grace period on the principal amortization. So so that is the kind of thing we will continue doing in parallel to divestments.
Shay Chor: a great spirit on the principle of amortization so that is the kind of thing we will continue doing in parallel to divestment because divestment we don't control we need to be And in any case, we need to continue doing liability management. make our EBITDA fit into our capital. I'll keep going here.
Speaker Change: Cause divestment, we don't control, we need to be opportunistic.
Speaker Change: In any case, we would need to continue doing liability management to make our EBITA fit into our capital structure.
Speaker Change: I'll keep going here, because they say there's no life questions. Okay.
Operator: No live questions, okay? Okay, Shay. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Okay sure. Thank you.
Speaker Change: This is one for castle.
Shay Chor: Now that AI is a reality, as you mentioned, what are you seeing as a new hot topic or things that Zenvia is seeing that could happen differently? As during 2024 we built the foundations to blend AI into the core of our customer cloud, we see that the adoption of simple use cases that was the beginning of AI into the platform is now evolving into a more interconnected use case, which combines the data that companies have considering the history of their customers' transactions, the history of past interactions with these customers, to then create more sophisticated customer journeys and experiences for these customers.
Speaker Change: Now that the AI is a reality as you mentioned.
Speaker Change: Are you seeing is new hot topic or things that Sanjay is a thing that could.
Speaker Change: What happened differently in 'twenty five.
Speaker Change: As a dream tend to move forward with building the foundations to blend.
Speaker Change: Turning to the core of our customer cloud.
Speaker Change: See that the adoption.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Simple use cases that was at the beginning of.
Speaker Change: AI into the platform is now evolving into a more interconnected.
Speaker Change: Use case, which combined with the data that companies have considering the history of their customers' transactions pissed.
Speaker Change: Hyster off past interactions with these customers to create more sophisticated.
Speaker Change: Customer journeys and mixed versus for all these customers. So we are beginning to.
Shay Chor: So we're beginning to see the adoption of agents that we're offering our customers within the customer cloud to automate some more complex journeys and complex interactions that use that data to help end customers to solve their issues, to understand what is the best offer for them, to anticipate what could be offered for them in terms of marketing offerings and so forth and so on. So we are starting to see the use of the combination of data and past interactions into more personalized experiences for end customers.
Speaker Change: See the adoption of agents that do it and that we are offering our customers within semi custom club to our tomato for more complex.
Speaker Change: Journey.
Speaker Change: Complex.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: Directions that use that data to help our customers to solve their issues to understand what is the best offer for them to anticipate.
Speaker Change: What could be offered for them in terms of marketing offerings central Boston, So well. So we are starting to see the use of the combination of data and a past interactions into more personalized express for end customers.
Thanks Kessel.
Shay Chor: another one here I remember at some point you talked about charging per interaction. Mostly on a per seat basis. Can you elaborate more on that? Sure. Historically, SaaS companies charged their platform, their software per seat, which is like a legacy from the old ways of selling software per license. But as we see the adoption of SaaS, even though it evolves human agents operating the software, when you go into automation and AI, you expect customers to use your software not for increasing the amount of human agents using the software, but going deeper into how to use data and use AI to create more value for their operations for their businesses.
Speaker Change: Another one here for you I remember at some point to you talked about charging per interaction.
Speaker Change: The industry.
Speaker Change: Mostly on a per seat basis can you elaborate more on this.
Speaker Change: Sure Starkly felt.
Speaker Change: SaaS companies are charged to there.
Speaker Change: Slots from their software for seat which is.
Speaker Change: My colleague a fee from the old ways of selling software.
Speaker Change: Per license.
Speaker Change: But that's what we see the adoption of SaaS.
Speaker Change: Even though it evolves human agents operate in the software when you go into our automation and AI you expect customers to use their software not for increasing the amount of human agents using the software but.
Speaker Change: Going into deeper into how to use data and you use AI to create more value further reparations Fargo businesses.
Shay Chor: So what we changed, and this is something that the next couple of years will be the major trend in SaaS, is not to charge per seat solely, but migrate that to per usage. And per usage, depending on the business and the software you're providing, means different things. In our case, as we are providing software for customer experiences, it makes sense to charge companies in terms of how many interactions they have with their end customers. And we did that movement last year. Now we charge our software, the whole of Zenvia Customer Cloud, per interaction with end customers.
Speaker Change: So what we changed.
Speaker Change: And is this something that in the next couple of years will be the major trend in SaaS.
Speaker Change: Is not to charge per seat.
Speaker Change: Solely but migrate stopped.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: For usage I'm pretty usage, the penny on the business and the software.
You are providing means different things in our case.
Speaker Change: We are providing software for customer experience if it makes sense to charge our companys main.
Speaker Change: In terms of how many interactions they have with their end customers.
Speaker Change: We did start a movement last year and our charge our software the whole of Zimbra customer crowd, Chris Macleod.
Speaker Change: Up or interaction with customers and what happens when we do that is that we.
Shay Chor: And what happens when we do that is we don't limit the amount that many, the way human agents are using the software, but we actually stimulate them. to adopt different features that would make, provide, for instance, chatbots, or agents for marketing purposes, or automation over campaigns, or ways to help these agents to be more productive. And this for a company is actually helping to be more efficient, reduce costs. So, and from our perspective, we're benefiting our customers and at the same time, we're capturing more volume and more revenues from these same customers. As they use more our software, we are able to charge more by our usage.
Speaker Change: Don't limit the amount that many.
Speaker Change: The way users human agents are using the software but to actually simulate them.
Speaker Change: To adopt different features that would make.
Speaker Change: <unk> provides for instance, chat bots or agents for marketing purposes, or automation over campaign or a waste too.
Speaker Change: How do you see moving agents to be more productive and as for our company is actually help them to be more efficient reduce costs.
Speaker Change: So from our perspective, we're benefiting our customers and are the same time or capture more volume.
Speaker Change: And more revenues from these same customers as they are.
Speaker Change: As.
Speaker Change: They use more of our software.
Speaker Change: We are able to charge more for.
Speaker Change: Usage and we see that this is the way we are gonna over couldn't ask next couple of years be able to monetize our customer base more and more.
Shay Chor: And we see that this is the way we are gonna, over the next couple of years, be able to monetize our customer base more and more, as they usually, companies, our customers usually start with one use case, usually no automation, a very simple use case, and over time, they begin using our software for other use cases, for other departments, for other parts of the customer journey. That brings, of course, more interactions that are managed by our software. That's why we see that we'll create, and it is already creating a positive flow in terms of revenue from some customers.
Speaker Change: They usually companies our customers are usually start with one use case, you just didnt know automation averse people use case and overtime.
Speaker Change: We began using our software for other use cases for other departments for other parts of the customer journey.
Speaker Change: It brings a force more interactions that are managed by our software. That's why we see that will create and it is already creating a positive.
Flow in terms of routing from some customers.
Speaker Change: Okay moving forward here.
Shay Chor: moving forward here.
Speaker Change: Back on the on the Divestments Kent you also not sure. If they are a part of it was even interested at this moment I understand you can't give specific details but is there any serious interest currently.
Shay Chor: back on the divestment. Can't you also not share if there are partners even interested at this moment? I understand you can't give specific details, but is there any serious interest currently?
Shay Chor: Unfortunately, we cannot provide any details on divestment. I can ensure you all that we've been working on it. hard looking into all alternatives and options that we have, but again we cannot share any further. and the one here.
Unfortunately, we cannot provide any details on divestments.
Speaker Change: I can ensure you all that.
Speaker Change: We've been working hard.
Speaker Change: Hard looking into all alternatives and options that we have.
Speaker Change: But again, we cannot share any any further details at this point.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Another one here in for your classroom I have noticed that in the past few months. There has been a bigger focus from the team on the franchise model as all our new partnerships could.
Shay Chor: I have noticed that in the past few months there has been a bigger focus from the team on the franchise model, as well as in partnership.
Shay Chor: Would you talk us through what the ultimate vision is here? Are there customer acquisition tools, retention, or pure play monetization? Sure. As we've been evolving Zenvia Customer Cloud, we understood that for companies to go deeper into the usage of the platform to create journeys that go end-to-end from marketing to sales, customer service, customer engagement, sometimes it's necessary not only to have the software available, but also to have someone by your side that is a specialist on your kind of company, in your vertical, in your region, and that kind of use case you're trying to evolve.
Speaker Change: Could you talk us through what the ultimate provision easier either customer acquisition tools retention or pure play monetization opportunities.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: As it was being evolving zimbra customer club B understood that.
Speaker Change: For companies to go deeper into the users of the platform too.
Speaker Change: Create genders that Jordan is that go in to and from marketing.
Speaker Change: Marketing sales customer service.
Speaker Change: Customer engagement.
Speaker Change: Sometimes it's necessary not only to have the software available, but also to have pharma by your side to that is a specialist on they are kind of company in your vertical in your region.
Speaker Change: That kind of use case, you're trying to evolve. So we always had some partners working with us to help them visa use cases, but as we saw last year.
Shay Chor: So we always had some partners working with us to help on these use cases, but as we saw last year, this demand for more sophisticated usage of our software, we understood that there was a very interesting opportunity to evolve these partners into franchises where these partners, they not only help us to sell the platform, but also help customers to achieve their operating results. So we've been evolving that model since the end of last year. It's going much better than we expected. Then we're aiming to scale that even more. We're not disclosing many numbers at this time, but over the last couple of months, we're going to be able to disclose how this new sales channel is performing.
Speaker Change: A demand for more sophisticated the usage of our software we understood that there was a very interesting opportunity to evolve these partner into our franchisees where they these are partner state.
Speaker Change: Not only help us to sell the platform, but also help customers to achieve their operating risk.
Speaker Change: Bristles.
Speaker Change: So we're being evolving that model since the end of last year.
Speaker Change: Going much better than we expected.
Speaker Change: And we're aiming to scale that even more.
Speaker Change: We're not disclosing any numbers at this time, but.
Speaker Change: Over the last couple of months.
Speaker Change: We're going to be able to.
Speaker Change: This close.
Speaker Change: All of these are.
Speaker Change: New sales Shadow is performing.
Shay Chor: But it's safe to say that over the next couple of quarters, we'll become the major sales channel for Samevia. So we're adding a new sales channel. It's performing pretty well when I expect that will help us to achieve a strong growth in the next couple quarters.
Speaker Change: But safe to say that over the next couple of quarters will become.
Speaker Change: The major.
Speaker Change: Sales channel for St via silver, adding a new sales channel, it's performing pretty well when they expect that to go help us to achieve strong growth in the next couple of quarters.
Carsten: Thank you Carsten.
Shay Chor: Will 2025 gross margin for both SAS and CPAS get back above 23 levels or will it stay below that? to help you guys here. And thank you! breaking into 25. Sas Business. We should expect gross margin to be back to the levels of 23. So let's call it between 45. and on the CPEX. ZenVia Machado, Shay Chor, Caio Oliveira, Zenvia Machado, ZenVia Machado, Zenvia Machado, I would say that it should be closer to 23 levels in terms of the SaaS business and close to 24 levels.
Carsten: Moving forward here will 2025 gross margin for both source and C baskets back above 92 levels only stay below that.
Carsten: So for those who are not in front of the numbers just to help you guys here.
Carsten: The gross gross margin on the SaaS business in 2003 was 46% and on the C pass.
Carsten: It was a was a 'twenty should be in in 24 was 46%.
Carsten: So looking into 25 on the SaaS business, we should expect.
Carsten: Our gross margin to be back to the levels of 2003, so let's call it between 45 and 50% and on the <unk> business.
Carsten: The 26% we presented in 'twenty four should be a normalized level, so slightly below that maybe closer to 25%. So I would say that it should be closer to 23 levels in terms of the SaaS business and close to 24 levels in terms of the on the Ah.
Carsten: <unk> business.
Carsten:
I'll keep going here.
Speaker Change: I understand you're not providing at this point any guidance for 25. So could you tell us what are your main goals are challenges for this year. So costs I'll start with the pure financial and I'll, let you run through operations and strategic Okay.
Shay Chor: I understand you're not providing at this point any guidance for 25.
Shay Chor: Tell us, what are your main goals or challenges for you? So Cassio, I'll start with Pure Financial and... In terms of financial... goals for 25 first. and Leverage Balance Sheet. A better line is eBITDA and the second. better than we did in 24 in terms of EBITDA. Those are the main goals for us from a pure financial perspective. Sure. Well, as you know, we are operating CPaaS as a mature business. Also, as I mentioned, we have the legacy SaaS that we are continuing to operate, but we expect mature growth. But when we look to Zembra Custom Cloud, our focus of investment over the last two, three years, we are seeing an amazing performance.
Speaker Change: In terms of in terms of our financials I would say that.
Speaker Change: Main goals for 25 first these.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: Leverage balance sheets and.
Speaker Change: <unk> EBITA better align our EBITDA to two capital structure of the company.
Speaker Change: And the second thing is.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Do better than we did in 'twenty four in terms of of EBITA.
Speaker Change: In terms of profitability.
Speaker Change: Those are the main goals for us from a pure financial perspective cause I don't know if you want to add something.
Speaker Change: The operations or product.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: Well.
Speaker Change: Oh, you know you are aware.
Speaker Change: Rating's a pass.
Speaker Change: Sure business also as I mentioned, we have the legacy SaaS that we are continuing.
Speaker Change: Continuing to operate but we expect mature growth, but when you look when we look to Tim Lucas Balder or pockets of investment off the last two three years, we're seeing.
Speaker Change: <unk> performance, we're seeing.
Shay Chor: We're seeing a big evolution of the software of customer experiences, and that is resulting into not only a strong customer acquisition, but especially more engagement from our current customers using the software. We're seeing more adoption of the software, I would say at least around a half percent, half of our customer base using Xamarin.Customer Cloud is already using for two or more use cases, meaning... 10 times, more than 10 times what we had before in the customer cloud. And that not only gives us a strong retention of these customers that they go into a more deep adoption, but we see they grow their revenues with us.
Speaker Change: Evolution after software off customer experiences and that is resilient.
Speaker Change: Into not only.
Our strong customer acquisition.
Speaker Change: Specialty more.
Speaker Change: Engagement from our own.
Speaker Change: Our current customers using the software we're seeing more adoption of the software.
Speaker Change: I would say at least.
Speaker Change: Around a half percent.
Speaker Change: Half of our customer base using because they make us proud is or what are you using for two or more use cases many.
Speaker Change: Tom times with more than 10 times that that what.
Speaker Change: What we had before seem to customer cloud.
Speaker Change: <unk> not only gives us.
Speaker Change: Strong retention of these customers.
Speaker Change: They go into a mortgage production that we see.
Yes.
Speaker Change: Big rotor.
Speaker Change: Revenues with us so this combination offer shrunk our customer acquisition.
Shay Chor: So this combination of a stronger customer acquisition and a deeper adoption of our software and combined with our usage-based business model is generating a very interesting combination of revenue growth for the customer cloud. And as gross margins for this business are pretty healthy, we are seeing that over the next couple of quarters we'll be able to. makes this business become the strongest portion of the whole company, generating cash, it's already a bit positive. All this combined gives us a very optimistic overview for 2025.
Speaker Change: A deeper adoption of our software.
Speaker Change: Combined with <unk>.
Speaker Change: We are usage based.
Speaker Change: Business model is generating a very interesting combination of revenue growth for us every customer called and asked our gross margins for this business are pretty healthy.
Speaker Change: We are seeing that.
Speaker Change: Over the next couple of quarters, we'll be able to.
Speaker Change: Makes these business to become the <unk>.
Speaker Change: Strong risk portion of the whole company generating cash it's already EBITDA positive.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: These are all of these combined that gives us a very optimistic view for 2025.
Speaker Change: Thanks Kessel.
Shay Chor: I got another one, seems to be the last one.
The another one seems to be the last one for the time being how should we look at the EBITDA margins for this year same story as the gross margins.
Shay Chor: How should we look at EBITDA margins for this year? Same story as the gross margin. So again, we're not providing specific numbers, as I mentioned.
Speaker Change: So again, we're not providing specific numbers.
Speaker Change: I mentioned.
Speaker Change: We are targeting an one hour of mingles 425 is to improved improve EBITDA from what we delivered in in 'twenty four.
Shay Chor: on our main goals for 2025. and Pru Vibita from what we deliver. and I'll cheer. level. I can say that we are aiming at doing better.
Speaker Change: Cannot share any specific level, but I can say that we are Amy it are doing better than we did in <unk> and 'twenty four.
Hugo: Hugo we have no further questions here.
Operator: We have no further questions. Again, if you have a question, please use the Q&A icon at the bottom of your screen to write it down and we will open your microphone. If you prefer not to open your microphone, please write down no microphone at the end of your question and our operator will read your question aloud.
Speaker Change: So so far.
Speaker Change: Again, if you have a question. Please use the Q&A icon at the bottom of your screen to write it down and we'll open your microphone. If you prefer not to open a microphone. Please write down no microphone at the end of our question and answer.
Speaker Change: Operator, we read the question aloud.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: I guess that's it.
Cassio Bobsin: Thank you, Shay.
Speaker Change: Thank you Sir So this concludes our Q&A session I'd like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Cassio, Bob sing for his closing remarks.
Operator: So this concludes our Q&A session.
Cassio Bobsin: I'd like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Casio Babsin for his closing remarks. Thank you, everyone, for joining us on this call. Now, 2024 was a very challenging year for us. And we see that on the other side, we were able to base all the foundations during the last year that are now becoming the basis for our 2025 high expectations. We're seeing that the market is pretty healthy. And our performance is doing amazingly well on Q1. We expect that to continue over the next couple of quarters. And so we expect to see all of you in the next couple of weeks.
Speaker Change: Thank you everyone for joining us on this call today 24 was a very challenging year for us.
Speaker Change: You see that on.
Speaker Change: On the other side, we were able to.
Speaker Change: Based on all the foundations during last year that are now becoming.
Speaker Change: Our basis for our traded 75 high expectations, we're seeing that the market is pretty healthy.
Speaker Change: And our performance is doing amazingly well on Q1, we expect that to continue over the next couple quarters then.
Speaker Change: And so expect to see all of you on the next.
Speaker Change: A couple a couple of four weeks. So we can share Archie weight Q1, op numbers stope here and thank you very much.
Operator: So we can share our Q1 numbers. So see you, and thank you very much.
Speaker Change: The conference has now concluded Zambia's IR area is at your disposal to answer any additional questions. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect have you all a nice day.
Operator: The conference has now concluded. Zenvia's IR area is at your disposal to answer any additional questions. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect. Have you all a nice day. Goodbye.
Speaker Change: Goodbye.