Q2 2025 Trinity Capital Inc Earnings Call

Speaker #4: Please stand by. Your program is about to begin.

Speaker #3: Good afternoon. My name is David, and I'll be your conference operator today. At this time, I'd like to welcome everyone to Trinity Capital's second quarter 2025 earnings conference call.

Speaker #3: All participants have been placed in a listen-only mode, and the floor will be open for your questions following the presentation. If you would like to ask a question at that time, please press the star and one on our telephone keypad.

Speaker #3: If at any point your question has been answered, you may remove yourself from the queue by pressing *2. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Ben Malcolmson, head of Investor Relations for Trinity Capital.

Speaker #3: Please go ahead, sir.

Speaker #5: Thank you and welcome to Trinity Capital's second quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Speaking on today's call are Kyle Brown, Chief Executive Officer; Michael Testa, Chief Financial Officer; and Gerry Harder, Chief Operating Officer.

Speaker #5: Joining us for the Q&A portion of the call are Ron Kundich, chief credit officer, and Sarah Stanton, general counsel and chief compliance officer. Earlier today, we released our financial results, which are available on our investor relations website at ir dot trinity capital dot com.

Speaker #5: Before we begin, please note that certain statements made during this call may be considered forward-looking under federal securities laws. Please review our most recent SEC filings for further information.

Speaker #5: On the risks and uncertainties related to these statements, with that, please allow me to turn the call over to Trinity Capital's CEO, Kyle Brown.

Speaker #6: Thank you, Ben, and thanks everyone for joining us today. To get started, we want to share some notable highlights from a strong Q2 for Trinity Capital as we continue to mature as a best-in-class alternative asset manager focused on the private credit space.

Speaker #6: We delivered $34.8 million of net investment income, a 30% increase versus Q2 of last year. Our net asset value grew 11% quarter over quarter to a record $924 million.

Speaker #6: Platform AUM increased to more than $2.3 billion. Our credit quality remained strong, with non-accruals staying steady and representing less than 1% of the portfolio at fair value.

Speaker #6: And Trinity paid a second-quarter cash dividend of $0.51 per share, representing our 22nd consecutive quarter of a consistent regular dividend. Many momentum-building milestones occurred during the second quarter as well.

Speaker #6: In May, we received an investment grade rating from Moody's, which allows us to obtain debt capital at more advantageous rates. Then, in June, we received a green light letter from the Small Business Administration to launch an SBIC fund, which will potentially provide $275 million of investable capital.

Speaker #6: The fund will be managed under our RAA, which differentiates our platform and generates new management and incentive fees that flow directly to Trin shareholders, creating the opportunity to provide future income beyond our direct lending folio.

Speaker #6: Trinity Capital continues to outperform across key metrics. Our return on equity and effective yield are at or near the top of the BDC space.

Speaker #6: Our NAV has grown 36% year over year. Since our IPO four years ago, the cumulative return on Trin stock is 88%, outpacing our peer average of 67% and the S&P's 565% total return in that same timeframe.

Speaker #6: Our goal is to be the top-performing BDC, and we believe our ability to consistently deliver strong performance stems from our differentiated structure, disciplined underwriting, and first-class team.

Speaker #6: Our five business verticals—sponsor finance, equipment finance, tech lending, asset-based lending, and life sciences—position us to maintain a diversified and resilient portfolio across varying macroeconomic conditions.

Speaker #6: Each vertical is supported by specialized and elite teams of originators, underwriters, and portfolio managers, fostering an efficient, effective, and scalable operating model. Structurally, as an internally managed BDC, our employees, management, and board members all hold the same shares as our investors.

Speaker #6: This alignment of interests ensures we are fully committed to delivering consistent dividends and growing returns. The internally managed structure also creates a premium valuation.

Speaker #6: Because shareholders own the management company as well as the underlying assets, furthermore, all management fees and incentive fees generated through our asset management activities under the RAA are passed on to our shareholders. This drives additional income streams, enhances valuation, and supports platform growth.

Speaker #6: From a talent attraction and retention perspective, we are deeply committed to cultivating a strong culture that draws the best people in the industry as we continue our growth trajectory.

Speaker #6: We invest in our form and our processes for future scale as we build a company that earns trust in our employees, partners, and shareholders.

Speaker #6: Our unique culture is built on six core pillars: humility, trust, integrity, uncommon care, continuous learning, and an entrepreneurial spirit. Our aim has always been to create an organization that our employees, partners, and shareholders are proud of.

Speaker #6: We continue to thoughtfully raise both equity and debt to capitalize the business. During Q2, we raised $82 million of equity through the ATM program, at an average premium to NAV of 11%.

Speaker #6: And subsequent to quarter-end, we issued $125 million of unsecured notes, providing further capitalization for our growth. All this gives continued validation that we can scale the platform while maintaining an increase in our earnings per share.

Speaker #6: We are experiencing tremendous momentum heading into the second half of 2025. In the first half, we funded $585 million, outpacing last year's record-setting first half by more than 20%.

Speaker #6: Our investment pipeline remains strong, including $849 million in unfunded commitments as of the end of Q2. We are well-positioned for continued portfolio growth in the second half of 2025.

Speaker #6: Only 6% of unfunded commitments are considered unconditional, meaning 94% of our unfunded commitments are subject to ongoing diligence and approval by our Investment Committee.

Speaker #6: Underwriting and credit performance remain critically important to us. To touch on a few newsworthy topics in terms of tariffs, as mentioned in Q1, we continue to actively communicate with the entire portfolio, and we've seen a minimal impact to date.

Speaker #6: Understanding the effects of tariffs on both new and existing portfolio companies remains a core focus for us as we continue to build the business. The positive impact of the tariffs has been an increased demand for our equipment finance business, which concentrates on U.S.-based manufacturing.

Speaker #6: Our dividend coverage increased quarter over quarter, and we expect to maintain this trend. We believe future rate cuts should have a beneficial impact for Trinity Capital since a majority of our deals are already at their floor rate.

Speaker #6: And we could see an uptick in prepayments if rate cuts continue, as borrowers look to refinance their debt at lower rates. This would generate additional fee income for the benefit of our shareholders and provide capital for future deployment.

Speaker #6: Additionally, lower rates would reduce our borrowing costs on our credit facility and future bond issuances. From the beginning, we've consistently stated that our objective is to out-earn the dividend while growing the BDC.

Speaker #6: And we continue to deliver on that promise. Trinity Capital remains well positioned in the private credit market with a focus on late-stage, venture-backed companies in the lower middle market.

Speaker #6: On the capitalization front, we're laying the groundwork for a managed account platform, and this initiative will expand our direct lending strategy, creating additional income streams for Trinity Capital shareholders.

Speaker #6: Overall, we are very bullish about the opportunities before us. We look forward to continuing to build a company that delivers outsized returns to our investors and demonstrates uncommon care for our people and our partners.

Speaker #6: And with that, I'll turn the call over to Michael Testa, our CFO, to discuss our financial results in more detail. Michael.

Speaker #7: Thank you, Kyle. In the second quarter, we achieved total investment income of $69.5 million, a 27% increase over the same period in 2024. Our industry-leading effective yield on the portfolio for Q2 was 15.7%.

Speaker #7: The increase in total investment income this quarter reflects higher prepayment income from over $100 million of early debt repayments, as well as net portfolio growth in the second quarter.

Speaker #7: Net investment income for the second quarter was $34.8 million, or 53 cents per basic share, compared to $26.7 million, or 53 cents per basic share, in the same period of the prior year.

Speaker #7: Our net investment income per share represents 104% coverage of our quarterly distribution. Our estimated undistributed taxable income is approximately $63 million, or 91 cents per share.

Speaker #7: We continue to reinvest this capital for the benefit of our investors while maintaining a consistent and meaningful distribution. Our platform continues to generate strong returns for our BDC shareholders.

Speaker #7: With return on average equity of 15.9% once again among the top in the BDC space. That's end of Q2. Our net asset value was $924 million, up 11% from $833 million as of Q1.

Speaker #7: And our corresponding NAV per share increased to $13.27 at the end of Q2, as compared to $13.05 as of Q1. The increase in NAV per share reflects net appreciation on the portfolio and accretive equity ATM issuances.

Speaker #7: During the quarter, we enhanced liquidity and lowered our net leverage ratio by raising $82 million through our equity ATM program at an average premium to NAV of 11%.

Speaker #7: We opportunistically raised $2 million of gross proceeds from our debt ATM program, all at a premium to . As Kyle mentioned, subsequent to quarter-end, we issued $125 million of six and three-quarter percent unsecured notes due in July 2030.

Speaker #7: This institutional bond issuance further diversifies our sources of capital, improves our cost of capital, and ladders out our debt maturities. We maintain a strong balance sheet with no debt maturities until August 2026.

Speaker #7: We continue to benefit from our co-investment vehicles, which provide approximately $1.9 million, or $0.03 per share, of incremental net investment income to the BDC in Q2.

Speaker #7: We syndicated $34 million to these vehicles during the quarter, and as of June 30, 2025, we managed over $300 million of assets across these private vehicles, providing incremental growth capital and a creative return to our shareholders.

Speaker #7: Our net leverage ratio decreased to 1.12 times as of quarter-end. With strong liquidity and well-diversified capital sources, including funding from both the BDC and vehicles managed under our wholly-owned and registered investment advisor, Trinity is well-positioned to thoughtfully underwrite a robust pipeline, maintain a strict credit discipline, and selectively deploy capital in high-conviction opportunities.

Speaker #7: To discuss our portfolio performance and platform in more detail, I'll now pass the call over to our COO, Gerald Harder. Gerald.

Speaker #8: Thank you, Michael. At the end of the second quarter, the composition of our portfolio on a cost basis was composed of approximately 76% secured loans, 17% equipment financings, 4% equity, and 2% warrants.

Speaker #8: The portfolio remains well diversified by investment type, transaction size, industry, and geography. We are currently invested in 20 distinct industry categories. Our largest industry exposure is finance and insurance, representing 15% of the portfolio at cost and diversified across 17 borrowers, including both term loans and asset-based warehouse facilities.

Speaker #8: As of the end of Q2, our largest single portfolio company debt exposure represents 3.3% of our debt portfolio on a cost basis. Our 10 largest debt investments collectively represent 23.1% of our total portfolio on a cost basis.

Speaker #7: Trinity Credit, the quality of our portfolio remained consistent quarter over quarter, with approximately 99.1% of our portfolio performing on a fair value basis. Our average internal credit rating for the second quarter stood at 2.9, based on our one to five scale, where five represents very strong performance.

Speaker #7: This rating is consistent with prior quarters, reflecting both the addition of high-quality originations during the quarter and strong portfolio management of existing investments. Quarter over quarter, the number of portfolio companies on non-accrual improved from five to four.

Speaker #7: During Q2, one new company was added to non-accrual status, while two prior non-accrual investments were realized and rolled off. As of June 30th, non-accrual credits had a total fair value of approximately $15.6 million, or 0.9% of the total debt portfolio, consistent with the preceding quarter.

Speaker #7: At the end of Q2, 81% of our total principal outstanding was secured by first-position liens on enterprise, equipment, or both. For loans covered by enterprise value, the weighted average loan-to-value was 20%.

Speaker #7: With 58% of our portfolio companies maintaining a loan-to-value below 15%, in the second quarter, our portfolio companies collectively raised over $1.3 billion in equity capital.

Speaker #7: Demonstrating the continued strength of our portfolio and our portfolio's ability to attract funding in the current macro environment. These metrics underscore the strong credit profile of our portfolio, with borrowers generally well-capitalized and positioned to finance their operational growth, including servicing their debt obligations.

Speaker #7: In closing, we want to emphasize that credit quality and disciplined portfolio management remain top priorities for Trinity Capital. Our team operates with a shareholder mindset, consistently striving for outcomes that serve the best interests of both our investors and our partners.

Speaker #7: Before we conclude the call, we'd like to open the line for questions. Operator.

Speaker #9: Absolutely. At this time, if you'd like to ask a question, please press the star and one keys on your telephone keypad. Keep in mind you can remove yourself from the question queue at any time by pressing star and two.

Speaker #9: Again, it is star one to ask a question today. We'll take our first question from Casey Alexander with Compass Point. Please go ahead.

Speaker #9: Your line is open.

Speaker #10: Yeah. Hi. good noon. On the East Coast, good morning on, on the west side. Kyle, you, you made a ment that, that tariffs were driving more interest in equipment finance.

Speaker #10: But this quarter was much more heavily slanted towards secured loans than equipment finance. Is that something that you see occurring over the rest of the year?

Speaker #5: Hey, Casey. Thanks for the question. No, you know, I think that's more of just a timing issue. Our tech lending had a great quarter. They want a lot of deals and are performing very well.

Speaker #5: And equipment financing was in line with our expectations. We also had a really significant quarter in terms of term sheets accepted, so more of a timing issue, Casey.

Speaker #5: And you can expect them to continue their growth going forward.

Speaker #7: Yeah. A little bit of additional color, Casey. This is Gerry. Year to date, our deployments have been 26% equipment. That's a little higher than we set out in our AOP.

Speaker #7: But you know, within what we would expect. And as Kyle mentioned, it was a pretty strong quarter for commitments for that vertical.

Speaker #9: Okay, thanks for that. Secondly, look, this is clearly a great quarter. It's being reflected in the stock right now. But I'm obliged to ask: there was a relatively meaningful increase in the watch list at fair value quarter over quarter.

Speaker #9: Now, you define those as need for additional capital or underperforming relative to the business plan. And those can be two very different things because the need for additional capital can simply be a timing issue.

Speaker #9: But can you give us a feel for how much of that 97 million is portfolio companies that are lining up for additional capital versus how many are underperforming their business plans?

Speaker #5: Hey, Casey. This is Ron Kundich. I'll take that. Looking at the list right now, I think it's a combination of the two things. These companies, well, let me step back.

Speaker #5: It's not a one-way street. These companies hit the watch list and, oftentimes, pop off the watch list. Two big ads to the watch list this quarter.

Speaker #5: Those companies are actively raising capital. From their investors, we're in negotiations with them as to how we can help with, perhaps, a modification of our loan.

Speaker #5: You know, it is a catch-all. You know, company performance oftentimes leads to companies' need for capital. The two things are related, more often than not.

Speaker #5: So that's kind of how I would describe that, Casey. If you have any follow-ups, feel free. But.

Speaker #9: All right. Thank you. We'll take our next question from Doug Harder with UBS. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #11: Oh, thanks. I hoping you could, you know, give us some more thoughts or color around the expected pacing of, of raising third-party capital, you, you mentioned, you know, separately managed accounts, you know, just how should we think about the potential growth of, you know, of that, pool of capital?

Speaker #7: Yeah. You bet. Thanks, Doug. You know, we have been actively setting up and laying the groundwork for our aged account business for over a year.

Speaker #7: Some of that has required SEC approval. We continue to build assets under management; you know, we had been waiting for SEC approval for some time.

Speaker #7: To convert our private fund into a non-traded BDC, which we'll be managing, we're at the very end of that process. We are hoping to launch and really start growing that entity now.

Speaker #7: And so the groundwork has been laid for over a year. We're starting to see the fruits of that trickle in now, and we're very excited about rolling that out and seeing more of that fruit get delivered here in the sub in subsequent quarters.

Speaker #7: And so it's a and, and then the last part of your question is, it is a big, big part of our future. As an operating company, which has the ability to generate income above and beyond just the loans that we issue, we are highly incentivized to build that business and to generate new management fees and incentive fees because it directly benefits our shareholders and gives us the ability to generate an increased earnings per share which, again, as a BDC, gives us the ability to generate, you know, new dividend income and higher dividend income.

Speaker #7: And so it's a big, big part of our future. The groundwork's been laid. It's taken a long time to get there, and now we're starting to execute on it.

Speaker #7: So, we are very excited about where we're at. Yeah. One thing I would add, you know, this is previously announced, but we did get our green light letter from the SBA, as Kyle mentioned in his prepared remarks.

Speaker #7: And so, you know, that sets off a sequence of events to create that SBIC fund, which will be a managed account under our RAA as well.

Speaker #9: And maybe just to put a point on that, you know, we are raising, unlike most BDCs, when they get an SBIC license, they downstream their own equity just to get a next semester leverage.

Speaker #9: Which is better for their return on equity? We are actually raising $87.5 million of equity, which will then get two tiers of leverage: $275 million of new capital, with management fees and incentive fees.

Speaker #9: That will begin flowing into Trinity, and we're hoping to close out that fund this year and start deploying next year. So this is happening in real time.

Speaker #9: And, we’re really excited about the upside that comes from it.

Speaker #11: Great. I appreciate the answers, sir.

Speaker #9: We'll take our next question from John Heck with Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #12: hey. thanks for taking my questions and congrats on another good quarter. I guess just diving a little bit more into the SBIC, maybe can you talk to us about, you know, like, how the interest rate positioning of that, does that if I recall that type of debt is, is tied to, you know, mo it's adjustable some, some type of part of the treasury curve?

Speaker #12: And then what are the characteristics of assets that go into that? And how do they differ from the rest of the portfolio in terms of contribution and economics?

Speaker #13: Hey, John. Good to hear from you. Thanks for the question. So the SBIC fund is great for LPs, of course, that we’re raising money from.

Speaker #13: And then, it's incredible for Trinity, with new management fees and incentive structures. But, you know, the real benefit here is that you get two times leverage for every dollar of equity you raise.

Speaker #13: We get $2 from ventures backed by the SBA. Fixed at some, it's right around 5% today. So it's a very low cost of capital.

Speaker #13: For the life of the fund, this ends up creating an incredible return for the LPs that we raise money from. It also creates a really interesting value proposition for us, as the cost of capital is extremely low.

Speaker #13: More lower than what we can currently get at the BDC level even right now. And so, that gives us a great new pool of capital with a very low cost of that capital.

Speaker #13: And the ability and new liquidity. And so, we intend to draw down and deploy next year. And, of course, you know, we're generating current management fees and incentive fees along the way.

Speaker #13: And so, it's great; that'll be our third SBIC license for Trinity Capital. This is the first since becoming a public company. We think that's going to be a great addition and provide some future upside for our shareholders.

Speaker #7: Yeah. And I would add that the mandate of that fund will be a co-investment vehicle alongside the BDC. Not every deal that we do within the BDC will fit into an SBIC fund. For example, deals in foreign jurisdictions won't apply.

Speaker #7: But largely, it will co-invest alongside the BDC.

Speaker #13: It'll just be programmatic, so it'll take a little piece of every deal we do.

Speaker #12: Okay. That's helpful. And then, anything to think about, you know, I guess still on the concept, related concept on interest rates, anything that we could be thinking about in terms of prepayments or repayments if rates go down?

Speaker #12: I mean, you gave some of the sensitivities on the business to declining rates. But is there anything else we should think about in terms of the impacts?

Speaker #12: I, I, I know the lower impact, the lower rates will help borrowers get a lower cost of capital, and so forth. But is there anything from a portfolio perspective we should be thinking?

Speaker #13: Well, you know, the prepayments year-to-date are kind of in line with our expectations and historical expectations for prepayments. Lower rates are going to be really interesting for us.

Speaker #13: Unlike, you know, most BDCs, the majority of our portfolio is really kind of either at floor rates for our floating rate loans or, you know, a quarter of the portfolio is equipment financings, which are really fixed once we deploy.

Speaker #13: And so, the majority of our portfolio is really set to see some upside because the cost of our capital will go down, of course, with our revolving line of credit.

Speaker #13: And then future debt issuances will be lower, in theory. And so, there's some really interesting upside just from a return perspective if rates do go down.

Speaker #13: And then, you know, the answer to your question is yes. You know, if rates go down, companies may look to refinance their debt into a lower cost of capital.

Speaker #13: And of course, that gives us the ability to kind of pick and choose who we maybe want to stay with and create new facilities for.

Speaker #13: And then it'll also give us the ability to pull forward fees and, and closing fi or, exit fees, etc., which could generate some, you know, some, some nice returns in the meantime.

Speaker #13: So, it's looking pretty positive if that ends up happening for us. And, you know, that was a couple of years in the making, planning and making sure we were set up for that eventuality.

Speaker #12: Okay. That's great. And then, just one quick final question: Is there anything that we should be thinking about in terms of seasonality in the third and fourth quarters for originations or repayments?

Speaker #13: So, we mentioned it. We've got, you know, approaching $1 billion in unfunded commitments. You can think about that as mostly, you know, when we were doing manufacturing lines, there's a, as companies grow, they need additional capital.

Speaker #13: And so, a lot of that's gonna be equipment financing as companies continue to grow and improve. They're gonna need more capital for it.

Speaker #13: So, you know, we mentioned we have a lot of momentum going into Q3. Well, a lot of that is signed term sheets, which kind of roll into that unfunded commitment amount.

Speaker #13: And so, we're on a great pace right for deployment. We have line of sight for, you know, a strong deployment quarter in Q3.

Speaker #12: Great. Thank you very much.

Speaker #13: You bet. Thanks, John.

Speaker #9: We'll take our next question from Sean Paul Adams with B. Riley Securities. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #14: Yes, good afternoon, and congratulations on the quarter. Could you provide a little bit more detail on the next car and space perspective? Also, is there any kind of near-term plan given their upcoming maturity dates?

Speaker #5: Yeah, there's... sorry. Jump off. This is Ron again. You know, next car, it has been on the list for several quarters now.

Speaker #5: As you might know and recall, we're partnering with another BDC on that fund, on that loan. All I can tell you is, broken record.

Speaker #5: But there are ongoing discussions with the company regarding a loan modification. The company continues to receive backing from their investors, which is good. Hopefully, there will be more to report next quarter.

Speaker #5: On that one. And then you asked about space perspective. Obviously, on the non-accrual, list this quarter. We expect to finalize that transaction during Q3.

Speaker #5: There'll be more to report later. But, that's all I've got for you right now.

Speaker #9: Perfect. Appreciate the caller. Thank you.

Speaker #13: Thanks, John.

Speaker #9: We'll take our next question from Christopher Nolan with Lenberg Fellman. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #15: Hey, guys. One of the thoughts in terms of given the tax changes that have just happened, they're gonna change your.

Speaker #12: Okay.

Speaker #13: Hey, Chris. Couldn't we turn up the volume? Maybe a little bit louder.

Speaker #12: Oh, oh, apologies. Can you hear me now? Gotcha.

Speaker #13: Yep. Yes, sir. Yeah.

Speaker #12: Okay. Thanks. Given the tax changes, is that going to benefit the equipment financing business?

Speaker #13: I think you're talking about tariffs, right? Actually, no. I'm talking about the accelerated depreciation where you can start taking 100% write-off in year one.

Speaker #15: Yeah. I mean, in theory,

Speaker #13: Yes. You know, as you know, most of our equipment deals are set up as financings. We don't own the equipment; the company does. And, you know, more depreciation for—and you gotta think about it for, for, you know, some of these companies that are going to be venture-backed, still growing.

Speaker #13: And then many of which, as you've probably seen, the portfolio grow, are going to be in the lower middle market or public companies that have strong EBITDA.

Speaker #13: Those will absolutely benefit. And so, we have seen a pretty massive uptick of over 20% year to date in equipment financing requests and just overall companies' plans for CapEx spend.

Speaker #13: And some of that has a lot to do, I think, with some of the tax changes.

Speaker #12: And should we expect the percentage of equipment financing to grow relative to the overall portfolio?

Speaker #13: We haven't baked in about a quarter of our deployments, or thereabouts. And, you know, they continue to hit that or achieve higher than that.

Speaker #13: You know, as our other four verticals continue to grow as well, you have continued to see kind of more diversification across the platform. And, yeah, the equipment continues to be about a quarter of our all deployment.

Speaker #12: And a follow-up question. In terms of your investment portfolio, it is really secured loans, equipment financing, and equity. Are there any considerations for expanding that into revolving facilities for your portfolio companies?

Speaker #13: So, our ABL business does provide some receivable financing, and that's a really great and exciting business for us that continues to grow. We are doing some of that and have been doing some of that for a couple of years.

Speaker #13: Our assets consist of enterprise-type customers and receivables, where we're providing an advance against those receivables. They are in bankruptcy-remote SPVs, featuring high-quality assets and short-term receivables.

Speaker #13: That's a great business for us. We continue to see that grow, and we expect that to continue to grow going forward. But it is just one of our five verticals.

Speaker #12: Final question. Congratulations on getting the investment-grade rating. If you guys decide to do, let's say, another BDC vehicle like a non-traded BDC, is the investment grade for the management, or is this specifically for the trend publicly traded BDC?

Speaker #7: Hey, hey, Chris. It's Mike. Yeah, right now, that investment grade rating is for the platform. So if we do raise another BDC, non-traded, we'd have to go and get additional ratings for that vehicle.

Speaker #7: But again, that additional rating would look to the same assets if it's co-investment. You're looking at the same assets, so the validation you get from Moody's looking through into the platform and the assets you get some benefit there.

Speaker #12: Sounds good. Thanks, Mike. Okay. Great quarter, guys. Thanks.

Speaker #13: Thanks, Chris.

Speaker #9: We'll take our next question from Paul Johnson with KBW. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker #14: Yeah. Thank you for taking my questions. In terms of just the funds within the RAA complex, kind of where are you at, I guess, from a deployment standpoint?

Speaker #14: At this point, are these funds fully deployed here in terms of leverage, and is it more based on kind of fundraising here on out?

Speaker #14: Or where do you kind of stand there?

Speaker #7: Hey, hey, Paul. It's Mike. Yeah, we're continuing to ramp the RAA. You'll see, in Q3, we did raise some more capital, so you'll see that deployment increase from what we did in Q2.

Speaker #7: It's at around 12% of our, you know, any new funding we do is syndicated into the RAA.

Speaker #5: In the RAA, Paul just put a stamp on it. They, you know, it's an incredible opportunity for us to increase our revenues and earnings per share.

Speaker #5: But it's also a great tool for us to manage our debt-to-equity ratios at Trin. And that's really important because what we need and what we want are our better ratings, which then drive down the cost of our debt capital over time on future bond issuances and provides us with great liquidity, so that we can really manage where we're raising money or whether we need to raise additional equity or debt at Trin.

Speaker #5: So it's just a great tool overall, not just from an earnings perspective, but to really make Trinity Capital, Inc. more and more efficient.

Speaker #14: Thanks for that. And where would you like to be, I guess, in terms of contribution from the RAA to Trin's overall business?

Speaker #13: I mean, as you know, as an internally managed BDC, we own the same shares as our investors. And so, to the extent we can raise and be very successful raising more and more capital off balance sheet and managed funds, that drives up earnings per share significantly for our shareholders.

Speaker #13: And it limits our need to raise equity and debt. So there will be a balance between capital that we're using on balance sheet and off balance sheet, but it will always come down to, can we grow?

Speaker #13: And if we grow, will it be accretive to our investors? It makes no sense to grow in a way that's dilutive to our investors.

Speaker #13: So the answer to our question is: can we continue to grow? Can we attract the best talent in the world? Can we retain the best talent in the?

Speaker #13: And then can we give and then can we continue to stay really relevant in the market and build the business while making sure we don't dilute investors?

Speaker #13: Like, if that box doesn't get checked, there's no point in growing. So the answer to your question is, you know, can we grow?

Speaker #13: Yes or no. And then what's a way to it that's creative to our investors?

Speaker #14: Okay. Thank you. And then, one question I just had too is, ou know, the it looks like, you know, the majority of your portfolio is kind of at or approaching the floor in its in its rate.

Speaker #14: And its interest rate. But I guess when a loan is at the floor where it's been there kind of for some time, is, is rates kind of start to move lower.

Speaker #14: How likely are those loans to be refinanced or prepaid early? You know, either getting refinanced by another lender or if they're just getting taken out by the equity early?

Speaker #14: Or is it a lot more just kind of dependent on the overall exit environment in terms of getting those loans repaid?

Speaker #7: Yeah. This is Gerry. Let me take a crack at that for you. You know, I think our borrowers, in general, right, interest rates aside, if they can scale and grow and become eligible for lower-cost financing from a bank, they're going to do that, right?

Speaker #7: So, you know, that's a lot of the re-fis that we see. Our portfolio companies, they've essentially graduated from, you know, the Trinity type of debt.

Speaker #7: I don't know that, you know, a couple points of interest rate change is incentive enough for companies. And certainly, sometimes it is, right? And we'll see that.

Speaker #7: And as Kyle mentioned, it puts in a great perspective because, you know, we can get the first look, so to speak, at what this new portfolio or what this company can achieve with new debt. Maybe that's a place where we want to participate.

Speaker #7: So we don't really fear those interest rate-driven refinancings because it's a very incremental savings for the company. And if we elect to ride along, we often can do so.

Speaker #7: If a company's going to qualify for, you know, bank debt, then congratulations. And they should go do that.

Speaker #14: Thank you. That's all for me.

Speaker #13: Thanks, Paul.

Speaker #9: And there are no further questions on the line at this time. I'll turn the call back to your CEO, Kyle Brown, for any closing remarks.

Speaker #16: Well, on behalf of Trinity Capital, our team, thank you for joining us today. We appreciate your continued interest in investing in Trinity Capital, and we look forward to sharing our third quarter results on our next earnings call, scheduled for November 5th.

Speaker #16: Have a great day. Thanks. Bye.