Q2 2025 Chimera Investment Corp Earnings Call
Greetings and welcome to the Chimera Investment corporation, second quarter earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode.
A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation.
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Based on my pleasure to turn the call over to me on song. Please go ahead.
Thank you, operator. And thank you everyone for participating in chimera's second quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Before we begin I'd like to review the Safe Harbor statements. During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements which are predictions projections or other statements about future events.
These events are current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties, which are outlined in the risk factors section in our most recent annual and quarterly SEC filings.
Actual events and results May differ materially from these 4 looking statements. We encourage you to read the 4 looking statement disclaimers in our earnings release and our quarterly and annual filings.
during the call today, we may also discuss non-gaap Financial measures
Please refer to our SEC filings and earnings supplement for reconciliation to the most comparable gaap measures. Additionally, the content of this conference call may contain time-sensitive information. That is accurate only, as of the date of this earnings call, we do not undertake as specifically. This claim any obligation to update or revise, this information.
I will now turn the conference over to our president and Chief Executive Officer. Phil cartas.
Thank you. Good morning and welcome to the Chimera investment corporation's. Second quarter 2025 earnings call. It's great to have you with us today.
Joining me on the call are Jack McDow. Our chief investment officer and Subaru of this 1 often our Chief Financial Officer.
After my remarks subra will review the financial results and then Jack will review our portfolio before. Opening the call for questions.
You may be familiar with the ancient Greek Parable, the fox knows many things, but the Hedgehog knows 1, big thing.
It's a simple Parable, but powerful.
The fox is clever, always trying new things. The Hedgehog.
It just sticks to what it knows best, and the fox cannot defeat him.
In good to Great. Jim Collins took that idea and asked what separates Great companies from the rest.
He found the answer was not simply trying new things. It was focused.
He called it the Hedgehog concept, the intersection of 3 key questions.
What are you deeply passionate about? What can you be the best in the world at and what drives your economic engine?
A couple of years ago we looked at ourselves in the mirror and realized we were too focused on securitizing. Re-performing residential mortgage loans.
We needed to change.
But not by becoming something new, not by chasing the new hot idea.
Rather by becoming more of who we are already, are something we're deeply passionate about that, we believe we can be the best at and will drive our economic engine.
That's Residential Mortgage credit.
The first step, the acquisition of the Palisades group.
Which enhanced our existing expertise and Residential Mortgage credit.
Brought us third-party mortgage loan management.
Portfolio optimization and third-party private capital raising.
The Second Step was portfolio diversification.
We have started selling some of our assets and have relabeled, some of our securitizations and use those proceeds to acquire agency rnbs, which supports our re and 40 out compliance as well as providing us with a source of liquidity and income.
And more recently, to acquire $6.5 billion of Fannie Mae mortgage servicing rights through a servicing partnership.
We may progress, but there's still more work to be done.
The third step is the acquisition of Home. Express a leading non-qm originator with a history of growth and profitability.
Financing and managing a range of residential mortgage credit assets, both for ourselves and for others, and home. Express adds the production of those assets to our platform.
But this is not just vertical integration. This is strategic clarity.
With both Palisades and home Express. We looked for companies that expanded and enhanced our existing capabilities.
We expect both Acquisitions to be, accretive not through subtraction or reduction in headcount or other so-called cost saving synergies. But through addition, the addition of complimentary capabilities, the addition of talent. And the addition of scale and scope
So, what's next?
We're not done yet.
We'll continue to look for opportunities to grow the platform both organically as well as adding New pieces. All the while being diligent to our core principles, our expertise and Residential Mortgage credit.
Our Hedgehog status.
Our new trajectory will not be linear as we noted during the last earnings call, while we successfully relevant our in our securitization. It takes time to effectively deploy Capital, especially given the volatility surrounding Liberation day.
which resulted in a short-term drag on earnings in April, and May before we hit our stride in June,
Also, while we believe home Express acquisition will be meaningfully accretive to our earnings. As we expect 2026 and 2027 to be, especially strong years for non-qm originations
We may experience decreased earnings in the short term as we redeploy capital for the acquisition and integrate them as an operating subsidiary.
We also expect to invest some of those earnings to grow the platform and our assets to support future growth of our dividend.
As we look forward to the future. What's the big takeaway?
for a company that knows 1, big thing Residential Mortgage credit and executes, it
We'll continue diversifying our portfolio and income streams.
Growing recurring fee income, adding liquidity, and looking for opportunities to add accretive platforms and invest in Creative assets. All with the focus of growing our assets and dividend, our total economic return over the long term.
I'll now hand it off to subra to walk you through the financials.
Thank you. Phil.
I will review chimera's financial highlights for the second quarter of 2025.
Gaap net income for the second quarter was 14 million or 17 cents per share Gap, Book value at the end of second quarter was $20.91 per share.
For the second quarter, our economic return on Gap Book value was 0.5% based on the quarterly change in Book value and the 37 cents, second quarter dividend per common share.
Year to date 2025, our economic return on GAP book value was 9.8%.
On an earnings available for distribution basis. Net income for the second quarter was 32.1 million or 39 cents per share.
Our economic net, interest income for the second quarter was 69 million.
For the second quarter, the yield on average interest, earning assets was 6%. Our average cost of funds was 4 and a half percent. And our net interest, spreads was 1 and a half percent.
Total. Leverage for the second quarter was 4.5 to 1. While Rico's leverage ended the quarter at 1.8 to 1
Recourse. Leverage increased. This quarter as we increase our investments in agency securities.
For liquidity and strategic developments the company ended, the quarter with 561 million in total cash and unencumbered assets. As Phil mentioned during the quarter, we announced a definitive agreement to acquire home Express, mortgage Corporation.
This transaction is expected to close in the fourth quarter of 2025.
On the investment front, we deployed approximately 2.3 billion in new agency, rmbs Investments. During the quarter primarily in the back half as opportunities arose,
For repo and hedging. We had 2.4 billion outstanding repo, liability secured by the Residential Credit portfolio.
58% of the outstanding Residential Credit repo or 1.4 billion had a floating rate sensitivity. And we maintained 1.6 billion in notional value of various interest rate, Hedges, protecting the repo liabilities.
We had 1.4 billion in either non or limited market features on our outstanding repo. Agreements representing 58% of our secure recourse funding for the residential current portfolio.
Liabilities.
Additionally, during the quarter related to the agency rmbs, Hedges, we entered and closed out 2 and a half billion notional or swaps and contracts with varying maturities.
For the second quarter of 2025, our economic net interest income return on average Equity was 10 and a half percent. Our Gap return on average Equity was 5.4% and our E8 is returned on average Equity was 7 and a half percent
And lastly, compensation General administrative and servicing. Expenses were marginally lower this quarter. Our transaction expenses were lower by 5 million. This quarter reflecting the cost associated with increased securitization activity in the prior quarter.
I will now turn the call over to Jack to review our portfolio and investment activity.
Thanks, subra and good morning, everyone. The second quarter was shaped primarily by policy developments, including international, trade and certainty. The administration's tax proposal regulatory Capital relief, initiatives, geopolitical events, and ongoing scrutiny of Federal Reserve rate policy
The early April tariff, escalation rattled risk markets, pushing the interest rate, volatility to levels, not seen since October 2023, investors re-priced. The odds of a June Fed rate, cut peaking at an implied, 1.6 cuts on April 8th as concerns of a tariff induced recession increased. But as trade timelines extended,
And policy tensions, eased risk sentiment stabilized, and volatility finished. The quarter below. Its starting point.
Economic data remained a key Market driver as the FED maintained. Its data dependent stance. While early Q2 consumer sentiment survey showed weakness June data, improved, notably hard data. Revealed surprising economic resilience, despite tariff concerns employment. Statistics. Consistently met or exceeded expectations and core pce inflation. Into the quarter at 2.8%. Just 10 basis points above where it began.
The yield curve steepen during the quarter with the 2-year treasury yield declining approximately 16 basis points supported by softening inflation expectations and a more balanced economic backdrop. Conversely long duration, treasuries faced headwinds with the 10-year, edging up 2 basis points. While the 30-year sold off, roughly 20, pressured by mounting fiscal Supply, concerns and uncertainty around duration, demand.
this Dynamic produced significant curved deepening with the twos 10, spread widening, approximately 19 basis points and the twos and 30s by roughly 37 basis points,
Corporate credit, spreads outperformed, non- agency, rmbs as investment grade in high yield corporates tightened, 11, and 57 basis points, respectively, while non- agency. Rmbs was wider by 5 to 10 basis points across the capital stack generically agency, MBS held up better against treasury. Hedges with current coupon OAS. Tightening, 8, basis points, whereas swap OAS traded within a 23 basis, point range ending 2 basis points. Wider,
Housing conditions, remain challenging, against a backdrop of low affordability and Market uncertainty through June 2025, existing home, sales registered, the weakest year-to-date activity in nearly 27 years, outside of 2009, while resale inventory remains historically low May's 1.5 million units represented the highest level since June 2020.
Home price. Forecasts have moderated with most year-to-date projections now, ranging between 0 and 4% for 2025.
The bright spot continues to be the non-qm market where originations and issuance volumes continue to outpace 2024 levels and are on track to reach the highest post crisis, level on record.
Our book value declined 1.2% during the quarter primarily driven by the rally at the short, end of the curve that impacted our securitized debt valuations more significantly than the corresponding gains in our loan portfolio.
With respect to the portfolio, we entered April with 253 million in cash and a fortified liability structure that allowed us to navigate Market. Volatility comfortably, our funding remains stable throughout the turbulence, as approximately 61% of our portfolio. Liabilities are comprised of non-recourse term financing. The remaining 39% is made up of repo with approximately 2.1 billion secured against Liquid Agency, MBS and 2.4 billion against non- agency, rnbs.
For 1.4 billion is non-market to Market or limited Mark to Market providing stability in our funding during times of Market stress.
We ended Q2 with approximately 62% of the portfolio's capital allocated to Legacy reperformance, which compares to roughly 68% at the end of the first quarter.
RPL portfolio. Fundamentals performed consistent with expectations. Cash flow velocity remains steady pre-payments increased each month of the quarter consistent with seasonal factors while RPL delinquencies ended the quarter lower at 8.4%.
with ample liquidity, coming into Q2, we remain disciplined while markets, work through quarter, early quarter volatility consistent, with the strategy, we outlined in q1, we focused on repositioning toward more liquid assets through an expanded agency, MBS allocation we began to deploying Capital following the peak volatility period, adding positions opportunistically in late, April and more aggressively in May when spreads remained wide with the majority of settlement, activity occurring, in the back half of the quarter that deliberate pacing resulted in a modest drag on earnings in Q2 while also preserving strategic flexibility and underscoring our commitment to disciplined risk management amid evolving market dynamics,
During the quarter, we committed over 300 million dollars of capital toward the purchase of approximately 2.3 billion of agency. Pass, throughs utilizing the approximately 6 and a half turns of Leverage.
We hedge these positions with swaps to achieve tighter duration, alignment match, our sofa based funding profile and capitalize on structural carry advantages in the current negative swap spread environment.
We expect these positions to deliver high quality care with less in the low to mid teens.
After quarter in, we closed on our first MSR transaction, consisting of 6 and a half billion of Fannie Mae loans, through a third-party servicing partnership.
The portfolio of consists of 4-year season loans with a 4% average interest rate.
220,000 average balance 71% loan to value. And 750 average borrower credit score, the transaction deployed, approximately 37 million dollars of capital at an expected lever Roe in the low. Teens this asset class, complements our Residential Credit and agency MBS Holdings while helping balanced portfolio. Interest rates sensitivities.
Looking ahead, we continue to evaluate liquidity, generating opportunities within our portfolio of securitizations where we hold exercise will Redemption rights.
That currently includes 18 Cable deals, consisting of approximately 6 billion dollars of loans.
We analyze the economics of exercising, call rights and either selling the underlying loans or as we did in q1 rescue them.
Our decision framework incorporates Break Even Roe thresholds near-term, Book value impacts and longer term earnings accretion potential.
While some opportunities may offer a creative redeployment. They may require near-term Book, value, reductions when redeeming discounted securitization debt at par. We carefully weigh enhanced earnings power against Book, value impacts and corresponding payback periods. And as we identify deals that meet our economic thresholds, we expect to pursue these strategies. As we continue repositioning our portfolio and platform.
As mentioned on June 12th, we announced the acquisition of Home Express marking, another strategic step in Transforming Our portfolio and platform capabilities from a business standpoint home. Expresses Founders and Senior leadership have built a high-caliber team serving Brokers and correspondent lenders in the non-qm and dscr markets at scale.
Additionally, they have a strong network of institutional Investment Partners that have been consistent, buyers of Home Express's Loan, Production over the years, and we intend to continue supporting and growing those relationships.
From a portfolio perspective, the home Express platform creates a pipeline of investable assets, not only for the Reit but also for our investment and asset management clients. While simultaneously supporting the growth of our third-party MSR footprint,
We're excited about the cultural alignment, business energy and home Express's ability to capture market. Share in the expanding non-qm sector.
Allocated to agency, MBS prepared for our first MSR investment that closed in early July and announced the acquisition of Home Express. We look forward to maintaining this momentum through the third quarter.
And that concludes our prepared remarks. We'll now turn the line back over to the operator for questions.
Thank you will not be conducting your question and answer session. If you'd like, to be placed into question queue, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star 2. If you'd like to move your question from the queue 1 moment, please while we pull for questions and once again, that star 1 to be placed into question Q,
Our first question today is coming from Bose, George from KBW, your line is now live.
Hey everyone. Good morning. Um, actually in the prepared remarks, um you suggested that, you know, there might be more to do in terms of on the acquisition front or sort of pieces as the company continues to evolve and can you just um, you know, discuss you know what? What direction that could be.
Yeah, what I want to signal is that as with home Express, I mean, we will continue to be open to opportunities that make sense with, with within our kind of core competency of Residential Credit. Um, and that's, you know, we'll just remain open to those things. And we're more signaling that it's still possible to continue to grow those to the extent that they could be synergistic within that framework.
Oh, okay. That makes sense. Thanks. And then after the Home Express deal closes, do you think you have all the pieces in place to generate a double-digit growth rate next year?
Yeah, I I think Bose just from a earnings power perspective. I mean obviously we're doing several things that are focused on increasing our earnings power. Increasing our EAD home Express is obviously a critical component to that. We think that's going to be materially accretive as we go forward in 2026 and Beyond the other thing that we alluded to. And some of the prepared remarks was just our efforts to generate liquidity and earnings power just from our existing callable securitization. So that's something that we're continuing to, to focus on and try to identify. You know, the economics of the other thing too, is just looking across our portfolio. We've got a lot of Legacy positions. So identifying any underperforming or fully valued assets and seeking to read you know, sell those redeploy them into more creative Investments and I think as we've mentioned on prior calls another element that we're very focused on is continuing to increase.
The revenue and earnings attribution from our fee based businesses, our asset management and Investment Management platforms. So you know, look all those pieces and then there's obviously market dynamics that that flow into this, you know, with respect to the path of Fed rate policy and that obviously impacts our net interest margin and things like that. But we certainly believe that we're, you know, laying the foundation or on the right path for continuing to increase our earnings power going forward.
Okay, that's helpful. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question. Today is coming from Trevor Cranston from citizens, jmpp. Your line is now live.
Hey, thanks. Good morning. Um,
you know, as you guys continue to go through the portfolio, repositioning process. Um, could you talk about how you sort of Envision the long term, uh, Capital allocation mix between?
You know, the the Legacy Credit portfolio and the and the newer agency uh Slash Mr. Um asset classes thanks.
Yeah, sure. Uh it's a good question and obviously, you know that the is a function of several things market conditions, being 1 to the Legacy portfolio naturally, you know, will run off over time. But we're certainly focused on sort of what we have in-house that we're looking at, which is kind of our model portfolio. And 1 of our, our primary goals there is to have a diversified portfolio of
Cross complimentary, you know, sectors or or product types that would provide, you know, stability and durability across different, economic housing and interest rate environments. Um, you know, the Legacy portfolio primarily made up of the, the reperformance loans, super seasoned loans. They've got a ton of equity in them. Um, in many cases and for many reasons, we like those assets at the same time, you know, they were securitized in the different period of the market and so we're looking and they de-lever. And as they continue to de-lever, that has an impact on our earnings power.
As we think about where we want to be from a an equity duration perspective, you know, again, depending on the types of msrs that we're buying, are they at the money? Are they more out of the money like the trade that we did in July? Um, you know, I could see those being anywhere from 15 to 25%, something like that. Give or take. Um, agencies. We've mentioned is a very important component of our overall portfolio, allocation, but that's going to be a function of our liquidity needs where we're seeing relative value, some of the opportunistic, um, relative value opportunities. We're seeing in other products, and sectors. So it's hard to nail down, like, what is our specific, um, long-term portfolio, allocation. But what I can say is agencies has a, a permanent role there. Msrs have a permanent role there. And, you know, being opportunistic and, uh, around other products sectors is something that we're always going to do just because we've got the capabilities, to, to allocate and manage assets across.
Across the entire spectrum of Residential Credit products. And so we don't want to limit ourselves to, you know, any just 1 or 2.
Oh no, if that helps, but hopefully it gives you some idea what we're thinking.
Yeah. Yeah, that's very helpful. Okay, thank you.
Thank you. Next question, today is coming from Doug harder from UBS. Your line is now live.
Uh, thanks and good morning. Uh, hoping you could talk about um how you how you're thinking about the dividend strategy going forward. Once home Express.
Closes. Um you know uh and you know how you think about retaining some capital from from that business versus uh increasing the pay out.
I hi. This is uh the Phil. Yeah. I mean as we signaled, you know, we are, we look at a variety of factors. We look at what our liquidity needs are with the investment Horizon is and we're looking to, to maintain and grow kind of the total economic return, and there's a couple of levers there, as you know, there's the dividend there's Book value, there's assets that support both and so, as we look at home Express, uh, we do believe it's going to be materially accretive, uh, to our, uh, our earnings in. The question, will be at the time. Next year, as we look through things, we will want to take some of that and make sure we invest it to grow that platform and assets. And and some of that we'll want to make sure that we're providing some near-term um uh dividend that mix. We haven't determined. But those are the kind of factors. We'll think about uh as we go forward because acquiring a new and a creative assets is going to support
Support the current dividend and allow that dividend to grow. So we have to strike an appropriate balance, uh, between using some of those earnings to grow the dividend. Now, versus making the Investments that will grow the dividend in the future.
Uh, great. And then, um, shifting to this secured financing. It looks like, you know, as of June 30th, that that that rate came down, you know, about 60 basis points from from the prior quarter, uh, you know, I guess, can you just talk about what drove that and, you know, how much of that benefit you saw during the second quarter?
Hey Doug, it's subra. Uh thanks for your question. So that 60 basis points is really a result of you know, our increase in financing of our agency portfolio. So that just brought the uh weighted average rate down
Okay, that that makes sense. And then, um, is there has there been any, uh, significant change in, in Book value uh, you know, quarter to date or or through July whichever
Yeah, I think um as of the end of the last Friday we were down about 55, basis points, on Book value, that was primarily driven by our our loan portfolio. Being relatively flat quarter today and we are seeing spreads Titan marginally on securitized senior securitized debt. So that increased the value of our sect debt and had a
Nominal impact on our book value.
Great. Thank you.
Thank you as a reminder that star 1 to be placed into question here.
Our next question is coming from Eric Haugen? From btig. Your line is now live.
Hey thanks. Good morning. Um, maybe following up on that last point. I mean, you mentioned some Mark to Market noise related to the move at the short end of the yield curve last quarter. I mean, what's the Outlook From Here? If the Fed Cuts rates and how will that drive your appetite to call, the remaining security ties that you have, that's currently callable.
Yeah. No, that that that's a great question. Eric. And certainly you know if rates
Sort of is where we're seeing, you know, Fed futures and things like that. That would certainly have multiple impacts on, you know, how we look at things. I mean, one that would increase our net interest margin. We've set up, you know, our non-agency hedges in a bit of an asymmetric way with our $1 billion cap that we put on earlier this year. So, as rates go down, you know, we're protected. If rates go up, but to the extent that rates go down, we're going to see a benefit, uh, there from our net interest margin. At the same time, if rates go down, you know, you know where other parts of the curve move that should also help, you know, the economics in our cable security analysis. So, we certainly could see, you know, some of those deals that may not be currently economic to call. We could certainly see them move into the box and be more actionable. So, yeah, those things are definitely something that we're paying close attention to.
Got it. That's helpful. That's helpful. Thank you. Um, all right, so we're looking at the really low Mark to Market. LTV for these seasoned reperformance loans. I imagine the DTI is probably too high for most of those folks to get a, a cash out refi or take on more debt, but there's so much innovation in our market right now, right? Especially with, like home equity products. I mean,
Are there other Equity products which could appeal to these borrowers, which either, you know, drive a refi event or strengthen the underlying Credit in some way.
Yeah, no, that's another good question. And, you know, we're very familiar with a lot of these home equity products that are out there, you know, including the ones that require no monthly scheduled payments. So, you know, I do think they, some of these borrowers would be ripe for those types of products, to the extent that they wanted to tap into the equity, in their homes. Um, you know, with that being said, you know, if you think about the profile of the borrower in this portfolio, they've been in the house. 1718 1920 years. If they didn't refinance, um, back, you know, in 2021, you know, I think it in many cases, these folks are just, you know, playing on living in these places for, you know, uh, the rest of their lives on on most. And basically, we're seeing that captured in the prepayment speeds that are basically right around, you know, housing, turnover levels. So, you know, I, I agree with you the very well, well, could be, you know,
A world where some of these home equity products and the marketing reach that, um, they're making gets to these borrowers, and we could see some pickup in, you know, payoff speeds. But I will say, from a credit perspective, um, I'm not sure that any of those products would really, you know, we're looking toward those to improve the credit profile.
We're seeing like I said in the prepared remarks you know, very good, cash flow velocity. You've got a ton of equity in these loans. Um you know the profile of bar they may miss a payment or 2 around the holidays. They pick it back up again when they get their their tax returns just as a general, you know profile. So um yeah it's um,
Now I'm not sure if that answered the question. No, that was really helpful detail. Know, that was good stuff, I appreciate that. Um 1 more FAA, I mean do you have a sense for how much of the production from home Express will be capitalized on the balance sheet versus sold the third parties going forward?
Yeah, I think it's really important for us to really emphasize the fact that, you know, and that alluded to it in the prepared remarks, but their, their business has been built around relationships. They have with, with institutional investors who have been multi-year partners to them, and, you know, buying their their production and we expect to continue to support that and continue to, you know, develop those relationships and sell the third parties at the same time, you know, as we see home, expresses production volume grow. You know, we do expect to be in a position to retain a portion of that production, whether it's for the rebalance sheet for our um, credit funds, our our third party um, clients on the asset management side, um, but we certainly do not want. We want to strike a very
Good balance, with respect to continuing to make sure that we grow the relationships that they already have in place and that they've been building over the years, um, versus what we're retaining. I, I can tell you that we don't have a specific number a percentage at this point. I I think it's um, something that we're still working through and making sure that we we're we're thoughtful. Um, as we go down that path.
Yep, that's really helpful. Thank you guys.
Thank you. We reached end of our question and answer session. How about to turn the floor back over for any further? Closing comments.
Order earnings call and we look forward to speaking with you. Um, in November for our third uh quarter call thank you.
Thank you but that concludes today's teleconference webcast, you may disconnect your line at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.