Q3 2025 WR Berkley Corp Earnings Call

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Please refer to our annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31st 'twenty 'twenty four and our other filings made with the SEC for a description of the business environment in which we operate and the important factors that may materially affect our results.

W. R. Berkley Corporation is not under any obligation and expressly disclaims any such obligation to update or alter its forward looking statements, whether as a result of new information future events or otherwise I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Rob Berkley. Please go ahead Sir.

Nicole Thank you very much and let me.

Echo your warm welcome to our Q3 call.

In addition to myself on this end of the phone. We also have executive chairman William Berkley, as well as Chief Financial Officer Rick.

We're going to follow our typical agenda, where momentarily I'll be handing it over to rich he is going to run through some highlights of the quarter I may follow with a couple of sound bites of my own and then you will have the three of US at your disposal to try and answer any questions or engage in any discussion that participants would like to engage in.

But before I hand, it over to rich let me just add.

Oftentimes I do state the obvious and that is I think the past 90 days is just the continuation of <unk>.

Clear evidence that the insurance industry is still a cyclical industry.

And for whatever the reason may be some would say fear and greed.

The industry continues to seemingly make an art out of self sabotage.

When it comes to its own success that having been said, we as an organization are not completely insulated from that but we were able to mitigate that quite effectively because of how we what parts of the market I should say, we focus on particularly specialty and Furthermore, smaller.

Accounts with a lot of the challenge that continues to percolate and seems to be a building momentum again, we're somewhat protected from so let me leave it there I'm going to hand, it over to rich who will run through some thoughts and then will I.

I will come back and offer a few more in line with please alright. Thanks, Rob appreciate it good evening everyone.

Third quarter results were excellent with a return on beginning of year equity of 24, 3%, reflecting an increase over the prior year's quarter of almost 40% of net income $511 million or $1 28 per share.

Operating income increased 12% over the same period to $440 million or $1.10 per share with a return on beginning of the year equity of 21%.

Or the growth in underwriting and net investment income drove this strong performance combined with net investment gains.

Pre tax quarterly underwriting income increased eight 2% to $287 million.

Calendar year combined ratio was 99% in the current accident year combined ratio ex cats was 88, 4%.

Losses represented two five loss ratio points or $79 million compared with the prior year of three three loss ratio points or $98 million.

Current accident year loss ratio ex cats for the current quarter was 59, 9%.

An increase over the prior year attributable to business mix, however, comparable to the second quarter of 2025.

Speaker #1: But, before I hand it over to Rich, let me just, as I oftentimes do, state the obvious. And that is, I think the past 90 days is just a continuation of clear evidence that the insurance industry is still a cyclical industry.

Rob Berkley: Before I hand it over to Rich, let me just, as I oftentimes do, state the obvious. That is, I think the past 90 days is just a continuation of clear evidence that the insurance industry is still a cyclical industry. For whatever the reason may be, some would say fear and greed, the industry continues to seemingly make an art out of self-sabotage when it comes to its own success. That having been said, we, as an organization, are not completely insulated from that, but we are able to mitigate that quite effectively because of how we, what parts of the market, I should say, we focus on, particularly specialty and furthermore small accounts, which a lot of the challenge that continues to percolate and seems to be building momentum, again, we are somewhat protected from. Let me leave it there. I'm going to hand it over to Rich.

Drilling down further the insurance segment's quarterly accident year loss ratio ex cat was relatively consistent with the first half of 2025, 69%, bringing the accident year combined ratio before cat to 89, 3%.

Speaker #1: And for whatever the reason may be, some would say fear and greed, the industry continues to seemingly make an art out of self-sabotage when it comes to its own success.

Reinsurance <unk> monoline excess segment's accident year loss ratio ex cats was 52, 6% with a strong accident year combined ratio before cat of 82, 4%.

Speaker #1: That having been said, we, as an organization, are not completely insulated from that. However, we are able to mitigate it quite effectively because of how we, what parts of the market, I should say, we focus on.

Moving to our topline quarterly net premiums earned continued to benefit from written growth, reaching another record of more than $3 $2 billion.

Net premiums written were $3 $8 billion and $3 $2 billion respectively.

Speaker #1: Particularly in specialty and, furthermore, small accounts, a lot of the challenges that continue to percolate and seem to be building momentum again, we are somewhat protected from.

Net premiums written grew in all lines of business in both segments.

The comparable third quarter expense ratios were 28, 5%. In addition to benefits from the growing net premiums earned on our expense ratio several of our recent startup operating units are gaining scale and contributing favorably to the expense ratio.

Speaker #1: So let me leave it there. I'm going to hand it over to Rich. He'll run through some thoughts, and then I'll come back and offer a few more of my own. Rich, please.

Rob Berkley: He'll run through some thoughts, and then I will come back and offer a few more of mine. Rich, please.

Speaker #2: Great, thanks, Rob. I appreciate it. Good evening, everyone. Third quarter results were excellent, with a return on beginning-of-year equity of 24.3%, reflecting an increase over the prior year's quarter of almost 40% in net income.

Rich Baio: Great. Thanks, Rob. Appreciate it. Good evening, everyone. Third quarter results were excellent with a return on beginning-of-year equity of 24.3%, reflecting an increase over the prior year's quarter of almost 40% in net income, $511 million for $1.28 per share. Operating income increased 12% over the same period to $440 million or $1.10 per share, with a return on beginning-of-year equity of 21%. Further growth in underwriting and net investment income drove the strong performance, combined with net investment gains. Pre-tax quarterly underwriting income increased 8.2% to $287 million. Calendar year combined ratio was 90.9%, and the current accident year combined ratio, ex-cats, was 88.4%. Catastrophe losses represented 2.5 loss ratio points or $79 million compared with the prior year of 3.3 loss ratio points or $98 million.

Knowledge enhancements are also contributing to operational efficiencies.

Pretax quarterly net investment income grew to $351 million driven by an increase in our core portfolio of nine 4%.

Speaker #2: $511 million. For $1.28 per share. Operating income increased 12% over the same period to $440 million, or $1.10 per share.

As a reminder, 2024 it did benefit from heightened Argentine inflation linked income and excluding such income from both periods would increase the core portfolio growth to 14, 6% quarter over quarter fix.

Speaker #2: With a return on beginning-of-year equity of 21%, further growth in underwriting and net investment income drove the strong performance, combined with net investment gains.

Our fixed maturity portfolio had a book yield of four 8% we.

We do expect investment income from our fixed maturity portfolio to grow in the foreseeable future due to strong operating cash flow of almost $2 $6 billion on a year to date basis, and new money rates comfortably above the roll off of existing securities.

Speaker #2: Pre-tax quarterly underwriting income increased 8.2% to $287 million. The calendar year combined ratio was 90.9%, and the current accident year combined ratio excluding catastrophe losses was 88.4%.

The duration of our fixed maturity portfolio, including cash and cash equivalents increased to two nine years in the third quarter, while strengthening our double a minus credit quality of our portfolio.

Speaker #2: Cat losses represented 2.5 loss ratio points, or $79 million, compared with the prior year of 3.3 loss ratio points, or $98 million.

Stockholders equity reached a record of $9 $8 billion, increasing 16, 7% from the beginning of the year driven by strong earnings improvement of $428 million and our after tax unrealized investment losses.

Speaker #2: The current accident year loss ratio for the third quarter is 59.9%, reflecting an increase over the prior year attributable to business mix. However, it is comparable to the second quarter of 2025.

Rich Baio: Current accident year loss ratio ex-cats for the current quarter was 59.9%, reflecting an increase over the prior year attributable to business mix, however, comparable to the second quarter of 2025. Drilling down further, the insurance segment's quarterly accident year loss ratio ex-cats was relatively consistent with the first half of 2025 at 60.9%, bringing the accident year combined ratio before cats to 89.3%. Reinsurance and monoline excess segment's accident year loss ratio ex-cats was 52.6%, with a strong accident year combined ratio before cats of 82.4%. Moving to our top line, quarterly net premiums earned continue to benefit from written growth, reaching another record of more than $3.2 billion. Gross and net premiums written were $3.8 billion and $3.2 billion, respectively. Net premiums written grew in all lines of business in both segments. The comparable third quarter expense ratios were 28.5%.

Speaker #2: Drilling down further, the insurance segment's quarterly accident year loss ratio ex-CAS was relatively consistent with the first half of 2025, at 60.9%. This brings the accident year combined ratio before CAS to 89.3%.

See translation losses, as well as capital returned of $362 million through ordinary and special dividends and share repurchases.

As of September 30th our after tax unrealized investment losses included in stockholders equity.

Speaker #2: Reinsurance and monoline excess segments accident year loss ratio ex-CAS was 52.6%. With a strong accident year combined ratio before CAS of 82.4%, moving to our top line, quarterly net premiums earned continue to benefit from written growth, reaching another record of more than $3.2 billion.

<unk> to $177 million and our financial leverage has improved to historic low levels at 22.5%.

Continued to generate significant capital.

Company proactively refinanced its debt when interest rates were at historically low resulting in a low cost of capital and adding permanent through our capital structure with our nearest scheduled maturity in 2037.

Speaker #2: Gross and net premiums written were $3.8 billion and $3.2 billion, respectively. Net premiums written grew in all lines of business in both segments.

Our liquidity remains strong with almost $2 $4 billion of cash and cash equivalents to invest.

Book value per share before dividends and share repurchases grew 27% year to date and five 8% on a quarter to date basis.

Speaker #2: The comparable third quarter expense ratios were 28.5%. In addition to benefits from the growing net premiums earned on our expense ratio, several of our recent startup operating units are gaining scale and contributing favorably to the expense ratio.

Rich Baio: In addition to benefits from the growing net premiums earned on our expense ratio, several of our recent startup operating units are gaining scale and contributing favorably to the expense ratio. Technology enhancements are also contributing to operational efficiencies. Our pre-tax quarterly net investment income grew to $351 million, driven by an increase in our core portfolio of 9.4%. As a reminder, 2024 did benefit from heightened Argentine inflation-linked income, and excluding such income from both periods would increase the core portfolio growth to 14.6% quarter over quarter. The fixed maturity portfolio had a book yield of 4.8%. We do expect investment income from our fixed maturity portfolio to grow in the foreseeable future due to strong operating cash flow of almost $2.6 billion on a year-to-date basis and new money rates comfortably above the roll-off of existing securities.

With that I'll turn it back to you rich thank you very much.

So maybe just a couple of quick sound bites for me that perhaps weren't invited a better conversation later on.

Speaker #2: Technology enhancements are also contributing to operational efficiencies. Our pre-tax quarterly net investment income grew to $351 million, driven by an increase in our core portfolio of 9.4%.

Starting out with some observations regarding the market.

The reinsurance marketplace.

Clearly the.

Property market.

Our property cat.

Speaker #2: As a reminder, 2024 did benefit from heightened Argentine inflation-linked income, and excluding such income from both periods would increase the core portfolio growth to 14.6% quarter over quarter.

No that bloom is off the rose from our perspective, there is still margin in the business, we will see how long that labs, it's without a doubt eroding and to that end you can feel the growing groundswell, where frankly, it's palpable around one one and the appetite.

Speaker #2: A fixed maturity portfolio had a book yield of 4.8%. We do expect investment income from our fixed maturity portfolio to grow in the foreseeable future due to strong operating cash flow of almost $2.6 billion on a year-to-date basis and new money rates comfortably above the roll-off of existing securities.

That's going to be coming from the reinsurance market. So we'll have to see what one one holds as far as the liability side again from our perspective and we've expressed this in the past there had been a bit frustrated.

The reinsurance marketplace.

Drawing a line in the sand and.

Speaker #2: The duration of our fixed maturity portfolio, including cash and cash equivalents, increased to 2.9 years in the third quarter while strengthening our AA- credit quality of our portfolio.

Rich Baio: The duration of our fixed maturity portfolio, including cash and cash equivalents, increased to 2.9 years in the third quarter, while strengthening our AA-minus credit quality of our portfolio. Stockholders' equity reached a record of $9.8 billion, increasing 16.7% from the beginning of the year, driven by strong earnings and improvement of $428 million in our after-tax unrealized investment losses and currency translation losses, as well as capital returned of $362 million through ordinary and special dividends and share repurchases. As of September 30, our after-tax unrealized investment losses, including stockholders' equity, decreased to $177 million, and our financial leverage has improved to historic low levels of 22.5%. We've continued to generate significant capital. The company proactively refinanced its debt when interest rates were historically low, resulting in a low cost of capital and adding permanence to our capital structure with our nearest scheduled maturity in 2037.

Demonstrating some discipline it would seem as though that reinsurers are dissatisfied with the underlying rate increases their citizens are achieving.

From our perspective.

I think that there should be opportunity to push a little harder that having been said, obviously at a nurse or a benefit as a buyer of reinsurance flipping over to the insurance side.

Speaker #2: Stockholders' equity reached a record $9.8 billion, increasing 16.7% from the beginning of the year. This growth was driven by strong earnings, an improvement of $428 million in our after-tax unrealized investment losses, and currency translation losses, as well as capital returned of $362 million through ordinary and special dividends and share repurchases.

<unk> comment earlier.

From our perspective, and again using a very broad brush here.

Larger equals more competition smaller equals less competition, which certainly bodes well for us.

On the property front, highlighting that clearly the world is shared and layered as we've talked about give or take 90 days ago is where the competition is heating up the greatest it is also pronounced in E&S in general that having been said from our perspective clearly the small admitted space.

Speaker #2: As of September 30th, our after-tax unrealized investment losses, included in stockholders' equity, decreased to $177 million, and our financial leverage has improved to historic low levels of 22.5%.

Speaker #2: We've continued to generate significant capital. The company proactively refinanced its debt when interest rates were historically low, resulting in a low cost of capital and adding permanence to our capital structure, with our nearest scheduled maturity in 2037.

As well as select parts of the homeowners market continue to offer attractive opportunity.

Not different from what we've expressed in the past as well the world of professional liability is very much a mixed bag on one hand, you have DNO that continues to erode, although at a slower rate from where it had been in the market generally speaking is choppy.

Speaker #2: Our liquidity remains strong, with almost $2.4 billion of cash and cash equivalents to invest. Book value per share before dividends and share repurchases grew 20.7% year-to-date and 5.8% on a quarter-to-date basis.

Rich Baio: Our liquidity remains strong, with almost $2.4 billion of cash and cash equivalents to invest. Book value per share before dividends and share repurchases grew 20.7% year to date and 5.8% on a quarter-to-date basis. Rob, with that, I'll turn it back to you.

One of the brighter places and by the way it needs every drop of it and then some would be the world of HBO as an example or hospital professional.

Speaker #2: Rob, with that, I'll turn it back to you.

Speaker #1: Okay, Rich, thank you very much. So, maybe just a couple of quick soundbites from me that perhaps will invite a bit of conversation later on.

Rob Berkley: Okay. Rich, thank you very much. Maybe just a couple of quick sound bites from me that perhaps will invite a bit of conversation later on. Starting out with some observations regarding the market. The reinsurance marketplace, clearly the property market, particularly property cat. You know, that bloom is off the rose. From our perspective, there's still margin in the business. We'll see how long that lasts. It's without a doubt eroding. To that end, you can feel the growing groundswell, quite frankly, it's palpable around 11 and the appetite that's going to be coming from the reinsurance market. We'll have to see what 11 holds. As far as the liability side, again, from our perspective, and we've expressed this in the past, we've been a bit frustrated on the reinsurance marketplace, drawing a line in the sand and demonstrating some discipline.

As far as workers compensation.

<unk>.

Main street comp from our perspective, consistent with what we've shared with you in the past tends to be particularly key.

Speaker #1: Starting out with some observations regarding the market, the reinsurance marketplace—clearly the property market, particularly property cat—the bloom is off the rose from our perspective.

Competitive.

We've talked and talked and talked about California, and certainly some of the challenges that market faces and happy to see the rate action coming through.

A lot of that in suggestion is being is coming about as a result of cumulative trauma and litigation stemming from that.

Speaker #1: There's still margin in the business. We'll see how long that lasts. It's without a doubt eroding. And to that end, you can feel the growing groundswell, quite frankly, that is palpable around 1.1 and the appetite that's going to be coming from the reinsurance market.

GL it would seem at least from our perspective for the moment ones able to keep up with trend auto has been on again and off again I think it was the first quarter, where we expressed a view that there were some green shoots.

Speaker #1: So, we'll have to see what 1.1 holds. As far as the liability side, again, from our perspective, and we've expressed this in the past, we've been a bit frustrated with the reinsurance marketplace drawing a line in the sand and demonstrating some discipline.

In the second quarter, it was a little less encouraging and quite frankly, it remains pretty choppy a bit of a puzzle to me and I believe colleagues because there is no product line that has been more exposed to social inflation in our opinion than auto, but we'll have to see what happens with that as far.

Speaker #1: It would seem as though reinsurers are dissatisfied with the underlying rate increases that their segments are achieving. From our perspective, we think that there should be opportunity to push a little harder.

Rob Berkley: It would seem as though that reinsurers are dissatisfied with the underlying rate increases that their students are achieving. From our perspective, we think that there should be opportunity to push a little harder. That having been said, obviously, it inerts our benefit as a buyer of reinsurance. Flipping over to the insurance side, per the comment earlier, from our perspective, and again, using a very broad brush here, larger equals more competition, smaller equals less competition, which certainly bodes well for us. On the property front, highlighting that clearly the world of shared and layered, as we talked about, give or take 90 days ago, is where the competition is heating up the greatest. It is also pronounced just in E&S in general. That having been said, from our perspective, clearly the small admitted space, as well as select parts of the homeowners market, continue to offer attractive opportunity.

As our portfolio goes and we can get into it later, we are reducing exposure, we're taking a lot of rate.

Speaker #1: That having been said, obviously, at a nurse-hour benefit, as a buyer of reinsurance. Flipping over to the insurance side, for the comment earlier, from our perspective—and again, using a very broad brush here—larger equals more competition; smaller equals less competition, which certainly bodes well for us.

Quite frankly, our topline is growing considerably less.

And then Ara right.

Over two umbrella again not without its challenges for the marketplace clearly the smaller under pound has been the better place to be and in addition to that the indigestion that the umbrella line has experienced disproportionately has been impacted by auto.

Speaker #1: On the property front, highlighting that, clearly, the world of shared and layered, as we talked about give or take 90 days ago, is where the competition is heating up the greatest.

Rich covered our quarter in some detail. So maybe just a couple of quick observations on that front for me topline up five and a half.

Speaker #2: Uh-huh.

Speaker #1: It is

Speaker #1: Also pronounced just in E&S in general, that having been said, from our perspective, clearly, the small admitted space, as well as select parts of the homeowners market, continue to offer attractive opportunities.

Ex comp coming in at 76.

Different folks can interpret that and whatever the way they wish to but from my perspective. It highlights the concept or the idea that this is an organization that is focused on rate adequacy.

Speaker #1: Not different from what we've expressed in the past, the world of professional liability is very much a mixed bag. On one hand, you have D&O that continues to erode, although at a slower rate than where it had been.

Rob Berkley: Not different from what we've expressed in the past as well. The world of professional liability is very much a mixed bag. On one hand, you have D&O that continues to erode, although at a slower rate from where it had been, and the E&O market, generally speaking, is choppy. One of the brighter places, and by the way, it needs every drop of it and then some, would be the world of HPL as an example or hospital professional. As far as workers' compensation goes, Main Street comp, from our perspective, consistent with what we've shared with you in the past, tends to be particularly competitive. We have talked and talked and talked about California and certainly some of the challenges that market faces, and happy to see the rate action coming through.

And to that end, we're very attuned to the fact that we are in business to make good risk adjusted returns not solely to issue insurance policies.

Speaker #1: And the E&O market, generally speaking, is choppy. One of the brighter places, and by the way, it needs every drop of it and then some, would be the world of HPL, as an example, or hospital professional.

You would've seen some on the insurance front growth in the short tail lines, just a call a couple of pieces out what's really driving that because you may be scratching their heads, saying well how do I reconcile that what he was traveling about as far as the property line of competition Theres really two pieces that are driving that one is our personal lines effort in Berkeley.

Speaker #1: As far as workers' compensation goes, Main Street Comp, from our perspective, consistent with what we've shared with you in the past, tends to be particularly competitive.

One that being in the private client personal lines, where there is great opportunity and we continue to lean into that and in addition to that our accident and health business.

Speaker #1: We have talked and talked and talked about California, and certainly some of the challenges that market faces. I am happy to see the rate action coming through.

<unk> to prosper as well you would have also perhaps taken note of the growth in the workers' comp line that not dissimilar to what we've talked about in the past is really driven by specialty comp some of it tends to be higher hazard and so on and so forth. It is not main street comp the growth under the reinsurance banner.

Speaker #1: A lot of that indigestion is coming about as a result of cumulative trauma and litigation stemming from that. GL, it would seem, at least from our perspective, for the moment, one is able to keep up with the trend.

Rob Berkley: A lot of that indigestion is coming about as a result of cumulative trauma and litigation stemming from that. GL, it would seem, at least from our perspective, for the moment, one's able to keep up with the trend. Auto has been on again and off again. I think it was the first quarter where we expressed a view that there were some green shoots. In the second quarter, it was a little less encouraging, and quite frankly, it remains pretty choppy. A bit of a puzzle to me, and I believe colleagues, because there is no product line that has been more exposed to social inflation in our opinions than Auto, but we'll have to see what happens with that. As far as our portfolio goes, and we can get into it later, we are reducing exposure.

Speaker #1: Auto has been on again and off again. I think it was the first quarter where we expressed a view that there were some green shoots.

Really as far as the property piece goes that's just us getting our last bites of the Apple before the Apple starts to rot.

Speaker #1: in the second quarter, it was a little less encouraging, and quite frankly, it remains pretty choppy. A bit of a puzzle to me, and I believe colleagues, because there is no product line that has been more exposed to social inflation and our opinions than Auto.

We have a view as to rate adequacy, and we have no problem drawing a line in the sand as we have demonstrated in the past and as far as the excess line with the growth is coming from primarily excess comp.

Risk cover the loss ratio the expense ratio as far as the Cat goes that was really this scf, but gave us a little bit of noise. There. The expenses again continued to be benefiting from our focus around automation as rich highlighted but please understand we can.

Speaker #1: But we'll have to see what happens with that. As far as our portfolio goes, and we can get into it later, we are reducing exposure.

Speaker #1: We're taking a lot of risk, and quite frankly, our top line is growing considerably less than our rate. Over to Umbrella, again, not without its challenges for the marketplace.

Rob Berkley: We're taking a lot of rate, and quite frankly, our top line is growing considerably less than our rate. Over to Umbrella, again, not without its challenges for the marketplace. Clearly, the smaller end of town has been the better place to be. In addition to that, the indigestion that the Umbrella line has experienced disproportionately has been impacted by Auto. Rich covered our quarter in some detail, so maybe just a couple of quick observations on that front from me. Top line up 5.5%. Rate ex-comp coming in at 7.6%. Different folks can interpret that in whatever the way they wish to. From my perspective, it highlights the concept or the idea that this is an organization that is focused on rate adequacy. To that end, we are very attuned to the fact that we are in business to make good risk-adjusted returns, not solely to issue insurance policies.

Continue to make investments so on occasion with the expense ratio you will see us having to take.

Half a step back in order to take multiple steps forward.

Speaker #1: Clearly, the smaller end of town has been the better place to be. In addition to that, the indigestion that the umbrella line has experienced has been disproportionately impacted by auto.

Flipping over to the investment portfolio and again I'm not going to completely pile on what rich has already covered but I would just flag that the duration did nudge out to 2.9 years and we feel as though that we have a fair amount of runway before us.

Speaker #1: Rich covered our quarter in some detail, so maybe just a couple of quick observations on that front from me. Top line up 5.5%.

As rich highlighted the strength of the cash flow continues to build the size of the portfolio and in addition to that.

Speaker #1: Rate ex comp coming in at 7.6. Different folks can interpret that in whatever way they wish to. But from my perspective, it highlights the concept or the idea that this is an organization that is focused on rate adequacy.

You can see the book yield continuing to go up from here.

Just as a point of reference the domestic book yield.

For the quarter was $4 six and our new money rate is give or take rate about 5%. So growth in the portfolio of higher new money equals runway ahead.

Speaker #1: And to that end, we are very attuned to the fact that we are in business to make good risk-adjusted returns, not solely to issue insurance policies.

Speaker #1: You would have seen some growth in the short-tail lines on the insurance front, just to call a couple of pieces out. What's really driving that? Because you may be scratching your head saying, "Well, how do I reconcile this?" What he was just babbling about as far as the property line and competition.

Rob Berkley: You would have seen some on the insurance front growth in the short tail lines. Just to call a couple of pieces out, what's really driving that, because you may be scratching your head saying, "How do I reconcile this, what he was just babbling about as far as the property line and competition?" There are really two pieces that are driving that. One is our personal lines effort and Berkley One, that being the private client personal lines where there is great opportunity and we continue to lean into that. In addition to that, our accident and health business continues to prosper as well. You would have also perhaps taken note of the growth in the workers' comp line. That, not dissimilar to what we've talked about in the past, is really driven by specialty comp.

Hum.

By and large it was a pretty solid quarter.

And it wasn't just because the wind didn't blow in the earth into shape and a consequence of ways. Because this is the trajectory that we're on and it would take a lot to take us off that path. So when the days all done the underwriting opportunity continues to unfold the discipline <unk>.

Speaker #1: There's really two pieces that are driving that. One is our personal lines effort and Berkley One, that being the private client personal lines, where there is great opportunity, and we continue to lean into that.

Mains in place to ensure that that margin is there and our other economic engine being the investment portfolio again has much opportunity ahead of itself.

Speaker #1: And in addition to that, our accident and health business continues to prosper as well. You would have also perhaps taken note of the growth in the workers' comp line.

Speaker #1: That is not dissimilar to what we've talked about in the past, and it is really driven by specialty comp. Some of it tends to be higher hazard and so on and so forth.

Let me pause there Nicole we are going to turn it back to you pleased if we could open it up for questions. Thank you very much.

Rob Berkley: Some of it tends to be higher hazard and so on and so forth. It is not Main Street comp. The growth under the reinsurance banner, really, as far as the property piece goes, that's just us getting our last bites at the apple before the apple starts to rot. We have a view as to rate adequacy, and we have no problems drawing a line in the sand as we have demonstrated in the past. As far as the excess lines where the growth is coming from, it's primarily excess comp. Rich covers the loss ratio, the expense ratio. You know, as far as the cat goes, that was really just SCS that gave us a little bit of noise there. The expenses, again, continue to be benefiting from our focus around automation, as Rich highlighted. Please understand, we continue to make investments.

Speaker #1: It is not Main Street Comp. The growth under the reinsurance banner, really as far as the property piece goes, that's just us getting our last bites at the apple before the apple starts to rot.

We will now begin the question and answer session. Please limit yourself to one question and one follow up.

I would like to ask a question. Please raise your hand now.

Speaker #1: We have a view as to rate adequacy and we have no problem drawing a line in the sand, as we have demonstrated in the past.

Who have dialed into todays call. Please press star line to raise your hand and star six on mute.

Please standby, while we compile the Q&A roster.

Speaker #1: And as far as the excess line with the growth is coming from, it is primarily excess comp. Rich covers the loss ratio, the expense ratio, and as far as the cat goes, that was really just SCS that gave us a little bit of noise there.

Your first question comes from the line of Alex Scott with Barclays. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Hey, Alex good afternoon.

Yeah, I think I got the sudden music correctly. So let me know if 10, Jeremy but.

Speaker #1: The expenses, again, continue to benefit from our focus on automation, as Rich highlighted. But please understand, we continue to make investments. So, on occasion, with the expense ratio, you will see us having to take half a step back in order to take multiple steps forward.

Yes, we can hear you.

We get stuck on me at all the time.

Youre coming through for a couple of times, a day, alright, I'll jump into it.

Rob Berkley: On occasion, with the expense ratio, you will see us having to take half a step back in order to take multiple steps forward. Flipping over to the investment portfolio. Again, I'm not going to completely pile on what Rich has already covered, but I would just flag that the duration did nudge out to 2.9 years, and we feel as though we have a fair amount of runway before us. As Rich highlighted, the strength of the cash flow continues to build the size of the portfolio. In addition to that, we see the book yield continuing to go up from here. Just as a point of reference, the domestic book yield for the quarter was 4.6%, and our new money rate is, give or take, right about 5%. Growth in the portfolio, higher new money equals runway ahead.

So.

First I wanted to ask you about how you're thinking about the capital position of the company and just hearing a little bit more restrained in terms of what youre willing to grow into.

Speaker #1: Flipping over to the investment portfolio, and again, I'm not going to completely pile on what Rich has already covered, but I would just flag that the duration did nudge out to 2.9 years.

So we're still getting some decent growth.

What would your plans be for the additional capital flexibility that that would give you and what would the pecking order to look like.

Speaker #1: And we feel as though we have a fair amount of runway before us. As Rich highlighted, the strength of the cash flow continues to build, along with the size of the portfolio.

So a couple of comments if you were to take the rating agents. Some of the rating agency models I don't know if that's all of them, but certainly several of them and you ran us through their sausage maker. It would tell you that we have.

Speaker #1: And in addition to that, we see the book yield continuing to go up from here. So just as a point of reference, the domestic book yield for the quarter was 4.6%, and our new money rate is give or take right about 5%.

Significant headroom to the tune of 10 digits as far as excess capital. So loads of flexibility. There. In addition to that as you pointed out in your own words, we are generating capital more quickly than we are able to consume it.

Speaker #1: So, growth in the portfolio and higher new money equals a runway ahead. By and large, it was a pretty solid quarter, and it wasn't just because the wind didn't blow and the earth didn't shake in a consequential way.

Rob Berkley: You know, by and large, it was a pretty solid quarter. It wasn't just because the wind didn't blow and the earth didn't shake in a consequential way. It's because this is the trajectory that we're on, and it would take a lot to take us off that path. When the day is all done, the underwriting opportunity continues to unfold. The discipline remains in place to ensure that margin is there. Our other economic engine, being the investment portfolio, again, has much opportunity ahead of itself. Let me pause there. Nicole, we are going to turn back to you. Please, if we could open it up for questions. Thank you very much.

Obviously as we've discussed in the past we wanted to make sure we've got plenty of wiggle room.

Speaker #1: It's because this is the trajectory that we're on, and it would take a lot to take us off that path. So when the day's all done, the underwriting opportunity continues to unfold.

That having been said we're also equally conscious of the fact that the capital does not belong to us that belongs to the shareholders and to the extent that we are not able to utilize that effectively we should be thinking about returning it to the shareholders. We.

Speaker #1: The discipline remains in place to ensure that the margin is there. And our other economic engine, being the investment portfolio, again has much opportunity ahead of itself.

We have multiple tools to do that.

And so we have not been shy about utilizing them rich flagged the balance sheet in particular, the capital structure. So not in a rush to do anything as far as the.

Speaker #1: So let me pause there. Nicole, we are going to turn back to you, please, if we could open it up for questions. Thank you very much.

That ore related security is and that would really leaves us with two options that being dividends and repurchase.

Speaker #3: We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. If you would like to ask a question, please raise your hand now.

Operator: We will now begin the question and answer session. Please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. If you would like to ask a question, please raise your hand now. If you have dialed into today's call, please press star nine to raise your hand and star six to unmute. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Your first question comes from the line of Alex Scott with Barclays. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

And again, we are open and regularly thinking about that question. So let me pause there that was probably a lot of babel without a specific answer that youre looking for but I'm, probably not going to be able to give you a specific answer but it just so happens.

Speaker #3: If you have dialed into today's call, please press star nine to raise your hand and star six to unmute. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster.

Speaker #3: Your first question comes from the line of Alex Scott with Barclays. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

My boss is here and he spends a lot of time thinking about.

Our capital and excess capital, particularly as our by a wide margin largest shareholder.

Speaker #4: Hey, Alex. Good afternoon.

Rob Berkley: Hey, Alex. Good afternoon.

Speaker #1: Hey, I think I got this unmuted correctly. So, let me know if you can't hear me, but,

[Analyst]: I think I got this unmuted correctly, so let me know if you can't hear me.

We spent a lot of time thinking about it.

There'll be opportune times.

Speaker #4: Yeah, we can hear you. We get stuck on mute all the time, but you're coming through. A couple of times, a...

Rob Berkley: Yeah, we can hear you. We get stuck on mute all the time, but you're coming through.

Buy back stock.

We've been very effective.

Speaker #1: Perfect.

[Analyst]: Perfect.

Rob Berkley: A couple of times a day.

Speaker #4: day.

Utilizing that tool as we bought back a lot of stock over the years.

Speaker #1: All right, I'll jump into it then. So, you know, I first wanted to ask you about how you're thinking about the capital position of the company and just hearing, you know, a little bit more of a restraint in terms of what you're willing to grow into.

[Analyst]: All right. I'll jump into it then. I first wanted to ask you about how you're thinking about the capital position of the company and just hearing a little bit more restraint in terms of what you're willing to grow into. Still getting some decent growth, what would your plans be for the additional capital flexibility that would give you, and what would the pecking order look like?

But because we're not paid not impatient.

The opportunity comes.

Continue to do that in the meantime.

Feel that that special dividends as a way to.

Speaker #1: But, you know, still getting some decent growth. You know, what would your plans be for the additional capital flexibility that that would give you? And, you know, what would the pecking order look like?

Shareholders now.

We work for them.

That opportunity to buy back shares can come at any time.

We will keep plenty of powder available we can seize those opportunities. We don't think it's there right at the moment.

Speaker #4: So, a couple of comments. If you were to take the rating agencies—some of the rating agency models, I don't know if it's all of them, but certainly several of them—and you ran us through their sausage maker, it would tell you that we have significant headroom to the tune of ten digits as far as excess capital.

Rob Berkley: A couple of comments. If you were to take some of the rating agency models, I don't know if it's all of them, but certainly several of them, and you ran us through their sausage maker, it would tell you that we have significant headroom to the tune of 10 digits as far as excess capital. Loads of flexibility there. In addition to that, as you pointed out in your own words, we are generating capital more quickly than we are able to consume it. Obviously, as we've discussed in the past, we want to make sure we got plenty of wiggle room. That having been said, we're also equally conscious of the fact that the capital does not belong to us. It belongs to the shareholders. To the extent that we are not able to utilize it effectively, we should be thinking about returning it to the shareholders.

Got it thanks for the question Alex Nicole was there another question out there.

Your next question comes from the line of Tresiba quickly with Wolfe Research. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Hi, good afternoon.

Speaker #4: So, loads of flexibility there. In addition to that, as you pointed out in your own words, we are generating capital more quickly than we are able to consume it.

Tracy.

Tracy a reminder to kindly on mute yourself.

Speaker #4: Obviously, as we've discussed in the past, we want to make sure we have plenty of wiggle room. That having been said, we are also equally conscious of the fact that the capital does not belong to us.

Chris are you there.

Hello can you hear me now.

We can hear you in our trophy, yes, sorry for the confusion with the new platform Okay.

Speaker #4: It belongs to the shareholders. To the extent that we are not able to utilize it effectively, we should be thinking about returning it to the shareholders.

I'm sorry, it was a brilliant question I ask all my best what I'm stuck on mute too.

Speaker #4: We have multiple tools to do that. And, you know, we have not been shy about utilizing them. Rich flagged the balance sheet in particular, the capital structure, so we're not in a rush to do anything as far as the debt or related securities.

Rob Berkley: We have multiple tools to do that, and we have not been shy about utilizing them. Rich flagged the balance sheet, in particular, the capital structure, so not in a rush to do anything as far as the debt or related securities, and that would really leave us with two options, that being dividends and repurchase. We are open and regularly thinking about that question. Let me pause there. That was probably a lot of babble without a specific answer that you're looking for, but I'm probably not going to be able to give you a specific answer. It just so happens that my boss is here, and he spends a lot of time thinking about capital and excess capital, particularly as our, by a wide margin, largest shareholder.

Okay I want to go back to your comments about your excess capital position. It's my observation that this is an industry wide phenomenon are you worried that the industry sitting on so much capital on your competitors are so used to grow coming off a hard market, it's going to be hard for them to take our foot off the pedal and.

Speaker #4: And that would really leave us with two options: that being dividends and repurchases. And again, we are open and regularly thinking about that question.

Just curious your thoughts like what catalysts that could turn pricing around given the supply demand equation.

Well, maybe a couple of comments there.

Speaker #4: So let me pause there. That was probably a lot of babble without a specific answer that you're looking for. But I'm probably not going to be able to give you a specific answer.

Ex comp and we back out comp because presumably that's sort of keeping up through wage inflation.

But we took seven six points of rate in the quarter, so as far as our ability to.

Speaker #4: But it just so happens that my boss is here, and he spends a lot of time thinking about capital and excess capital, particularly as our by a wide margin largest shareholder.

Keith.

Getting rate and keeping up with trend, we feel pretty good about that that having been said as far as excess capital.

Speaker #5: So, we spend a lot of time thinking about it. There'll be opportune times to buy back stock. We've been a very effective utilizer of that tool, and we've bought back a lot of stock over the years.

William Berkley: We spend a lot of time thinking about it. There'll be opportune times to buy back stock. We've been a very effective utilizer of that tool, and we've bought back a lot of stock over the years. It's because we're not impatient. We wait until the opportunity comes. We continue to do that. In the meantime, we feel that special dividends is a way to let the shareholders know we work for them. That opportunity to buy back shares can come at any time. We'll keep plenty of powder available so we can seize those opportunities. We don't think it's there right at the moment.

Some of our peers have a lot of excess capital some of them don't we're really just focused on what we're doing and we're focused on our value proposition to the marketplace every day and if at some point. It means that we have irrational competitors that drive parts of the market too unattractive places as we've demonstrated in the past.

Speaker #5: But it's because we're not too impatient. We wait for the opportunity to come. We continue to do that. In the meantime, we feel that a special dividend is a way to let the shareholders know we work for them.

Albeit we will shrink the business as I in a clumsy way I was trying to allude to in my comments earlier, given the breadth of our offering or how many different parts of the market we participate in and how the marketplace has decoupled as far as where product lines are in the cycle that positions us as an organization to be more.

Speaker #5: That opportunity to buy back shares can come at any time. We'll keep plenty of powder available so we can seize those opportunities. We don't think it's there right at the moment.

Our resilient when it comes to growth, but look when the days all done people may become more aggressive it seems some seen some version of the movie in the past and you.

Speaker #1: Got it. Thanks for the question.

Rob Berkley: Got it. Thanks for the question, Alex. Nicole, was there another question out there?

Speaker #4: Alex: Nicole, was there another question out there?

Speaker #3: Your next question comes from the line of Tracy Bend Weekly with Wolf Research. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Tracy Benquigli with Wolfe Research. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

And others have seen how we respond as I suggested earlier, we're focused on making good risk adjusted returns. So we cant do so be it.

Speaker #4: I, hi Tracy, good afternoon. Tracy?

Rob Berkley: Hi, Tracy. Good afternoon. Tracy?

The business shrink.

Hi, I wanted to go back here.

Speaker #3: Tracy, a reminder to kindly unmute yourself.

Operator: Tracy, a reminder to kindly unmute yourself.

Auto comments since your growth was flattish can you just unpack how much exposure you are reducing balanced by the pricing youre seeing now.

Speaker #4: Tracy, are you there?

Rob Berkley: Tracy, are you there?

I don't think we break out that detail I will double check with Taryn and if we do provide that to the world than I can assure you. She will follow up with you tomorrow.

Speaker #6: Hello, can you hear me now?

[Analyst]: Hello, can you hear me now?

Speaker #4: We can hear you now, Tracy.

Rob Berkley: We can hear you now, Tracy.

Speaker #6: Okay, thank you.

[Analyst]: Great. Thank you.

Speaker #4: Sorry for the confusion with the new platform.

Rob Berkley: Sorry for the confusion with the new platform.

Speaker #6: Okay.

[Analyst]: Okay.

Speaker #4: I'm sure it was a brilliant question. I ask all my best ones when I'm stuck on mute too.

Rob Berkley: I'm sure it was a brilliant question. I ask all my best ones when I'm stuck on mute too.

But what I can say is.

I wouldn't have made the comment I made earlier if it was just rounding it's meaningful.

Speaker #6: That's okay. I want to go back to your comments about your excess capital position. It's my observation, and this is an industry-wide phenomenon. Are you worried that the industry is sitting on too much capital and that your competitors are so used to growth coming off a hard market that it's going to be hard for them to take their foot off the pedal?

[Analyst]: That's okay. I want to go back to your comments about your excess capital position. It's my observation, and this is an industry-wide phenomenon. Are you worried that the industry is sitting on too much capital and your competitors are so used to growth coming off a hard market, it's going to be hard for them to take their foot off the pedal? I'm just curious of your thoughts, like what catalysts can you envision that could turn pricing around given the supply-demand equation?

And we're just.

Seemingly there are some market participants, particularly those with delegated authority that don't seem to get where loss costs are but that will end in tears eventually and we will have an opportunity.

Speaker #6: I'm just curious about your thoughts. What catalysts can you envision that could turn pricing around, given the supply-demand equation?

Okay.

Thank you.

Thanks for the question.

Speaker #4: Well, maybe a couple of comments there. So, we took ex-comp and we backed out comp because, presumably, that’s a sort of keeping up through wage inflation.

Rob Berkley: Maybe a couple of comments there. We took ex-comp and we back out comp because presumably that's sort of keeping up through wage inflation, but we took 7.6 points of rate in the quarter. As far as our ability to, you know, keep getting rate and keeping up with the trend, we feel pretty good about that. That having been said, as far as, you know, excess capital, some of our peers have a lot of excess capital. Some of them don't. We're really just focused on what we're doing, and we're focused on our value proposition to the marketplace every day. If at some point it means that we have irrational competitors that drive parts of the market to unattractive places, as we've demonstrated in the past, so be it. We'll shrink the business.

Your next question comes from the line of Elyse Greenspan with Wells Fargo. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Hi, good afternoon.

Hi, Thanks can you hear me.

Speaker #4: But we took 7.6 points of rate in the quarter. So as far as our ability to, you know, keep getting rate and keeping up with trend, we feel pretty good about that.

Yes, we can hear you. Thank you.

Okay perfect.

My first question I guess is just on Mitsui Sumitomo I know, we have not seen a regulatory filing indicating that there are five I've noticed that your company.

Speaker #4: That having been said, as far as excess capital, some of our peers have a lot of excess capital; some of them don't.

Do they have to file when they had 5% is there any update I know you guys here I am.

Speaker #4: We're really just focused on what we're doing, and we're focused on our value proposition to the marketplace every day. If at some point it means that we have irrational competitors that drive parts of the market to unattractive places, as we've demonstrated in the past, so be it. We'll shrink the business.

My understanding is yes, I am not an SEC attorney so full disclosure that having been said my understanding is they get to a 5% they need to file in every.

X amount of shares that they buy beyond that they will have to do follow on filings I do not believe there is any reason.

Speaker #4: As I, in a clumsy way, was trying to allude to in my comments earlier, given the breadth of our offering, or how many different parts of the market we participate in, and how the marketplace has decoupled as far as where product lines are in the cycle, that positions us as an organization to be more resilient when it comes to growth.

Rob Berkley: As I, in a clumsy way, was trying to allude to in my comments earlier, given the breadth of our offering or how many different parts of the market we participate in and how the marketplace has decoupled as far as where product lines are in the cycle, that positions us as an organization to be more resilient when it comes to growth. When the day is all done, people may become more aggressive. You know, seen some version of the movie in the past, and you know, you and others have seen how we respond. As I suggested earlier, we're focused on making good risk-adjusted returns. If we can't do it, so be it. We'll let the business shrink.

For them not to have to comply with what everyone else does but as we also mentioned in the past in an effort to ensure that we're not handicapped in our ability to participate in the market.

Speaker #4: But look, when the day's all done, people may become more aggressive. You know, it seems some have seen some version of the movie in the past, and you and others have seen how we respond.

We have no information beyond what you have as far as where they stand in that process.

Thanks, and then my second question.

Speaker #4: As I suggested earlier, we're focused on making good risk-adjusted returns. If we can't do it, so be it; we'll let the business shrink.

You guys saw kind of stable rate price in the quarter.

<unk> slowed right, mostly due to commercial auto a little bit other liability.

It feels like that's a tradeoff right Rob you guys are willing to make.

Speaker #6: Got it. And I want to go back to your auto comments, since your growth was flattish. Can you just unpack how much exposure you're reducing, balanced by the pricing you're seeing there?

[Analyst]: Got it. I want to go back to your auto comments. Since your growth was flattish, can you just unpack how much exposure you're reducing, balanced by the pricing you're seeing there?

I know last quarter, you said, we're kind of in the 8% to 10% growth World. This was a little bit lighter. So does it feel like we're in a little bit lighter growth world. As you guys look to keep as much price in the portfolio is Japan.

Speaker #4: I don't think we break out that detail. I will double-check with Taryn. And if we do provide that to the world, then I can assure you she will follow up with you tomorrow.

Rob Berkley: I don't think we break out that detail. I will double-check with Karen. If we do provide that to the world, then I can assure you she will follow up with you tomorrow. What I can say is I wouldn't have made the comment I made earlier if it was just rounding. It's meaningful. There are some market participants, particularly those with delegated authority, that don't seem to get where loss costs are. That'll end in tears eventually, and we will have an opportunity.

So the from my perspective, the answer is a lease that we have major parts of the marketplace.

Speaker #4: But what I can say is, I wouldn't have made the comment I made earlier if it was just rounding. It's meaningful. And we're just seemingly—there are some market participants, particularly those with delegated authority, that don't seem to get where lost costs are.

Or in some.

Period of transition.

Some are eroding and will likely erode further.

Some are healthy and others are somewhere between the bookends, perhaps going through some stage of fits and starts in our opinion is you will likely see it needing to firm from here commercial auto.

Speaker #4: But that'll end in tears eventually, and we will have an opportunity.

Speaker #6: Okay. Thank you.

[Analyst]: Okay. Thank you.

An example of that is.

Speaker #4: Thanks for the question.

Rob Berkley: Thanks for the question.

It's these periods of time of transition, which makes it really really hard to predict what the.

Speaker #3: Your next question comes from the line of Elise Greenspan with Wells Fargo. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Elyse Greenspan with Wells Fargo. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

<unk> will be over the next 90 days.

Speaker #4: Hi, Elise. Good

Rob Berkley: Hi, Elise.

Speaker #3: Hi.

Speaker #4: Good afternoon.

[Analyst]: Hi, Karen.

Rob Berkley: Good afternoon.

Once upon a time, we tried to give guidance because we were trying to be helpful. I am not sure if that proved to be the case or not but that was the intent around what the growth opportunity is I do believe that there is still opportunity for us to grow and grow at a healthy rate from here, but as you pointed out thank you for flagging.

Speaker #7: Hi, thanks. Can you hear me?

[Analyst]: Hi, thanks. Can you hear me?

Speaker #4: Yes, we can hear you. Thank you.

Rob Berkley: Yes, we can hear you. Thank you.

Speaker #7: Okay, perfect. My first question, I guess, is just on Mitsumi Sumitomo. I know we have not seen a regulatory filing hit indicating that they've hit 5%.

[Analyst]: Okay. Perfect. My first question, I guess, is just on Mitsui Sumitomo. I know we have not seen a regulatory filing hit indicating that they've hit a 5%.

Speaker #4: Yeah, I've noticed that too. Yeah.

Rob Berkley: Yeah, I've noticed that too.

Speaker #7: From the company? Do they have to file when they hit 5%, or is there any update? I know you guys are.

[Analyst]: In the company.

We are not going to compromise, our underwriting and particularly rate integrity in order to juice the top line.

Rob Berkley: Yeah.

[Analyst]: Do they have to file when they hit 5%, or is there any update? I know you guys are coming up with some process.

Speaker #4: I am, my understanding is yes. I am not an SEC attorney, so full disclosure. That having been said, my understanding is they get to 5%, they need to file, and every, you know, X amount of shares that they buy beyond that, they will have to do follow-on filings.

Rob Berkley: My understanding is yes. I am not an SEC attorney, so full disclosure, that having been said, my understanding is they get to 5%, they need to file, and every, you know, X amount of shares that they buy beyond that, they will have to do follow-on filings. I do not believe there is any reason for them not to have to comply with what everyone else does. As we also mentioned in the past, in an effort to ensure that we are not handicapped in our ability to participate in the market, we have no information beyond what you have as far as where they stand in their process.

And that sort of highlights what we've talked about on occasion in the past that's because we have a sense of ownership obligation and responsibility to the capital we manage we get rewarded our colleagues throughout the organization get rewarded not just monetarily, but emotionally.

Speaker #4: I do not believe there is any reason for them not to have to comply with what everyone else does. But as we also mentioned in the past, in an effort to ensure that we are not handicapped in our ability to participate in the market, we have no information beyond what you have as far as where they stand in their process.

Based on delivering good risk adjusted returns coming out of the underwriting and part as opposed to an MCU, where what is just about how many widgets you can roll off the assembly line today.

Thank you.

Speaker #7: Thanks. And then, my second question: you know, we saw kind of stable rate pricing in the quarter. Growth slowed, right? Mostly due to commercial auto and, to a little bit, other liability.

[Analyst]: Thanks. My second question, you know, you guys saw kind of stable rate price in the quarter. Growth slowed, right, mostly due to commercial auto, a little bit other liability. It feels like that's a trade-off, right, Rob, you guys are willing to make. I know last quarter you said we're kind of in this 8% to 10% growth world. This was a little bit lighter. Does it feel like we're in a little bit lighter growth world as you guys, you know, look to keep as much price in the portfolio as you can?

Your next question comes from the line of Rob Cox with Goldman Sachs. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Hey, Rob Good afternoon, Hey, good afternoon.

Speaker #7: It feels like that's a trade-off, right, Rob? You guys are willing to make? I know last quarter you said we're kind of in this 8% to 10% growth world.

Okay.

First question I, just wanted to ask about the catastrophe losses in the insurance segment.

It just looks like it was more in line with the average ratio cat loss ratio. We've seen for the last couple of years, whereas some peers are reporting lower cats, I know you called out SCS.

Speaker #7: This was a little bit lighter. So does it feel like we're in a little bit lighter growth world as you guys, you know, look to keep as much price in the portfolio as you can?

Speaker #4: So, from my perspective, the answer is, Elise, that we have major parts of the marketplace that are in some period of transition.

Rob Berkley: From my perspective, the answer is, Elyse, that we have major parts of the marketplace that are in some period of transition. Some are eroding and will likely erode further. Some are healthy, and others are somewhere between the bookends, perhaps going through some stage of fits and starts. Our opinion is you will likely see it needing to firm from here, commercial auto being an example of that. It is these periods of time of transition which make it really, really hard to predict what the opportunity will be over the next 90 days. Once upon a time, we tried to give guidance because we were trying to be helpful. I'm not sure if that proved to be the case or not, but that was the intent around what the growth opportunity is.

But is there any particular geography or a large loss to call out there or is this just a result of growth in short tail lines recently.

I would tell you that.

Two things one is it.

Speaker #4: Some are eroding and will likely erode further. Some are healthy, and others are somewhere between the bookends, perhaps going through some stage of fits and starts. In our opinion, you will likely see it needing to firm from here.

Is a bit of frequency with very modest severity and number two as you pointed out look we the property market in particular, it's been a pretty good run so we've leaned into it because we like the risk adjusted returns that were available as a result of that we got a little bit more exposure, but I would caution you not to.

Speaker #4: Commercial auto, being an example of that. It's these periods of time of transition which make it really, really hard to predict what the opportunity will be over the next 90 days.

Read too deeply into it.

Okay, great that makes sense and just a follow up on homeowners.

It sounds like Theres still some opportunity there.

Can you talk about how Berkley, one has performed compared to your expectations and where you are growing is it in states with more.

Speaker #4: So, you know, once upon a time, we tried to give guidance because we were trying to be helpful. I'm not sure if that proved to be the case or not, but that was the intent.

Speaker #4: Around what the growth opportunity is. I do believe that there's still opportunity for us to grow and grow at a healthy rate from here.

Exposure less cat exposure any context would help.

Rob Berkley: I do believe that there's still opportunity for us to grow and grow at a healthy rate from here. As you pointed out, thank you for flagging, we are not going to compromise our underwriting and particularly rate integrity in order to juice the top line. That sort of highlights what we've talked about on occasion in the past. That's because we have a sense of ownership, obligation, and responsibility to the capital we manage. We get rewarded. Our colleagues throughout the organization get rewarded not just monetarily, but emotionally based on delivering good risk-adjusted returns coming out of the underwriting in part, as opposed to an NGO where, you know what, it's just about how many widgets you can roll off the assembly line today.

I think Brian well first off I think berkley one.

Speaker #4: But, as you pointed out, thank you for flagging, we are not going to compromise our underwriting and particularly rate integrity in order to juice the top line.

Has proven to be a great success.

Basically started not basically started from scratch with a small team of people that.

Made it happen.

And today is comfortably more than a half a billion dollar business and growing at a healthy pace no. We are not leaning into California or anything akin to that I would tell you is we have a certain group of states that we're in and we are just going deeper.

Speaker #4: And that sort of highlights what we've talked about on occasion in the past. That's because we have a sense of ownership, obligation, and responsibility to the capital we manage.

Speaker #4: We get rewarded; our colleagues throughout the organization get rewarded not just monetarily, but emotionally, based on delivering good risk-adjusted returns coming out of the underwriting in part.

This is not just an idea to try and go into every last nook and cranny, we're going where our colleagues believe the opportunity is and where we feel as though we have a value proposition that we can deliver consistently.

Speaker #4: As opposed to an NGO, where you know, it's just about how many widgets you can roll off the assembly line today.

They in and day out, but now the growth there isn't because California became that flavor of the day for US we do not participate in the California market.

Speaker #7: Thank you.

[Analyst]: Thank you.

Speaker #3: Your next question comes from the line of Rob Cox with Goldman Sachs. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Rob Cox with Goldman Sachs. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Thanks, Rob.

Speaker #4: Hey, Rob, good afternoon.

Rob Berkley: Hey, Rob. Good afternoon.

Speaker #1: Hey, good afternoon. For my first question, I just wanted to ask about the catastrophe losses in the insurance segment. It just looks like it was more in line with the average catastrophe loss ratio we've seen for the last couple of years, whereas some peers are reporting lower catastrophe losses.

[Analyst]: Hey, good afternoon. For my first question, I just wanted to ask about the catastrophe losses in the insurance segment. It just looks like it was more in line with the average cat loss ratio we've seen for the last couple of years, whereas some peers are reporting lower cats. I know you called out E&S, but is there any particular geography or large loss to call out there, or is this just a result of growth in short tail lines recently?

Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Tunis with Cantor. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Can you hear me, yes, I can hear you Jeff.

Hey, good afternoon.

I guess just a question on the casualty side.

Just low single digit growth in the other liabilities.

Speaker #1: I know you called out SCS, but is there any particular geography or large loss to call out there, or is this just, you know, a result of growth in short-tail lines recently?

Lastly, I expect so I'm just curious are you starting to see more.

More competition and in some of those lines or is there something else.

Speaker #4: I, I, I would tell you that it's two things. One is a bit of frequency with very modest severity. And number two, as you pointed out, look, we the property market in particular, it's been a pretty good run.

Rob Berkley: I would tell you that it's two things. One, it is a bit of frequency with very modest severity. Number two, as you pointed out, look, the property market in particular, it's been a pretty good run. We've leaned into it because we like the risk-adjusted returns that were available. As a result of that, we got a little bit more exposure. I would caution you not to read too deeply into it.

Causing that DSO.

I think there is a couple of things one we have a view on rate.

Is there a bit of competition theres a bit of competition, but it's also how we're pivoting the portfolio.

Speaker #4: So we've leaned into it because we like the risk-adjusted returns that were available. As a result of that, we got a little bit more exposure.

At this moment in time.

Got it and then.

I guess I was a little bit surprised in Berkeley, one in anh could move the needle that much in short tail lines could you just give us some idea.

Speaker #4: But I would caution you not to read too deeply into it.

Speaker #1: Okay, great. That makes sense. And just to follow up on homeowners, it sounds like there's still some opportunity there. Can you talk about how Berkley One has performed compared to your expectations and, you know, where you're growing?

[Analyst]: Okay. Great. That makes sense. Just to follow up on homeowners, sounds like there's still some opportunity there. Can you talk about how, you know, Berkley One has performed compared to your expectations and, you know, where you're growing? Is it in states with more cat exposure or less cat exposure? Any context would help.

But then again I don't know how big those lines are so could you give us some idea of how.

How much of that short tail lines line item is non commercial property if that makes sense.

I don't have a specific number here. So if it's okay with you Ryan Let me ask Richard turn to follow up with you.

Speaker #1: Is it in states with more cat exposure, or less cat exposure? Any context would help.

Speaker #4: I I think buy-in well, first off, I think Berkley One, has proven to be a great success. It, basically started it not basically, it was started from scratch with a small team of people that, you know, made it happen.

Rob Berkley: I think buy-in, first off, I think Berkley One has proven to be a great success. It was started from scratch with a small team of people that made it happen. Today, it is comfortably more than a half a billion dollar business and growing at a healthy pace. No, we are not leaning into California or anything akin to that. I would tell you we have a certain group of states that we're in, and we are just going deeper. This is not just an idea to try and go into every last nook and cranny. We're going where our colleagues believe the opportunity is and where we feel as though we have a value proposition that we can deliver consistently, day in and day out. No, the growth there isn't because California became the flavor of the day for us. We do not participate in the California market.

I don't have it at my Fingertips I don't want to.

But its consequential, obviously, hence the comment earlier.

Understood. Thanks.

Thanks for the question.

Your next question comes from the line of Brian Meredith with UBS. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: And today, it is comfortably more than a half a billion dollar business and growing at a healthy pace. No, we are not leaning into California or anything akin to that.

Hi, Brian good afternoon.

Brian are you there.

Speaker #4: I would tell you that we have a certain group of states that we're in, and we are just going deeper. This is not just an idea to try and go into every last nook and cranny.

Brian a reminder to kindly on mute yourself.

Got it pushed the button alright, now I can hear me okay.

Your commentary are awesome.

Awesome Awesome. So two questions first one big picture so.

Speaker #4: We're going where our colleagues believe the opportunity is and where we feel as though we have a value proposition that we can deliver consistently.

And maybe this is kind of for you as well as the chairman.

I recall.

They'll sand that one of his biggest congrats from the last hard market was starting to pull back too early.

Speaker #4: Day in and day out. But no, the growth there isn't because California became the flavor of the day for us. We do not participate in the California market.

When there was still healthy margin in that business is that a debate that's going on right now.

Kind of how we how you're thinking about SaaS.

Speaker #1: Thanks, Rob.

[Analyst]: Thanks, Rob.

Okay.

Brian It's funny I recall that comment from the chairman usually have about 745 every morning at least five days a week, so I'm going to yield the floor to him.

Speaker #3: Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Tunis with Cantor. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Tunis with Cantor. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Speaker #8: Hey, Ryan, can you hear me?

Rob Berkley: Hey, Ryan.

William Berkley: Can you hear me? Can you hear me?

Speaker #4: Yes, I can hear you. Yep, good afternoon.

Rob Berkley: Yes, I can hear you. Yep, good afternoon.

Speaker #8: Perfect. Hey, good afternoon. Yeah, I guess just a question on the casualty side. Just low single-digit growth in the other liability. Less than I expected.

William Berkley: Perfect. Hey, good afternoon. I guess just a question on the casualty side, just low single-digit growth and other liability. Less than I expected. I'm just curious, are you starting to see more competition in some of those lines, or is there something else that's kind of causing that D-cell?

I think it's always.

You look at your business and you say.

Our prices.

When you go down more.

Speaker #8: I'm just curious, are you starting to see more, more, more competition in, in, in some of those lines or is there something else that's, that's kinda causing that decell?

At the bottom how much margin do you have.

Where is the key.

Actually you are going to come out.

Because you have a lot of years.

Speaker #4: I think there are a couple of things. One, we have a view on rates. Is there a bit of competition? Yeah, there's a bit of competition.

Rob Berkley: I think there's a couple of things. One, we have a view on rate. Is there a bit of competition? Yeah, there's a bit of competition, but it's also how we're pivoting the portfolio at this moment in time.

Central price increases.

As all of Us know.

This is a business where you don't know the ultimate margin for.

Speaker #4: But it's also how we're pivoting the portfolio at this moment in time.

For several years after you run the business.

And in that case.

Speaker #8: Got it. And then, I guess I was a little bit surprised that Berkley One and A&H could move the needle that much in short-tail lines.

It was 86 give or take.

William Berkley: Got it. I guess I was a little bit surprised that Berkley One and accident and health could move the needle that much in short tail lines. Could you just give us some idea? I don't know how big those lines are. Could you give us some idea of how much of that short tail lines line item is non-commercial property, if that makes sense?

We have much more margin than we were reporting.

And.

Speaker #8: Could you just give us some idea? But I, uh, yeah. Then again, I, I don't know how big those lines are. So could you give us some idea of how much of that short-tail lines line item is non-commercial property, if that makes sense?

We didn't realize it will cut back.

So there are two pieces to this puzzle.

Are you being.

Pessimistic as to the margin you're presenting because you havent appropriately reflected the price increases and then the second question is.

Speaker #4: I don't have a specific number here, so if it's okay with you, Ryan, let me ask Rich or Taryn to follow up with you.

Rob Berkley: I don't have a specific number here. If it's okay with you, Ryan, let me ask Rich or Karen to follow up with you. I don't have it at my fingertips, and I don't want to, but it's consequential, obviously, hence the comment earlier.

Where are prices change.

Speaker #4: But I, I don't have it at my fingertips, and I don't want to, but it's consequential, obviously, hence the comment earlier.

What's happening with the loss ratio in that.

The issues you face.

Who.

Speaker #8: Understood. Thanks.

William Berkley: Understood. Thanks.

Was different and 1986 than it is today.

Speaker #4: Thanks for the question.

Rob Berkley: Thanks for the question.

Theres more litigation there more lawyers.

Speaker #3: Your next question comes from the line of Brian Meredith with UBS. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Brian Meredith with UBS. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Or incentivize moving about litigation Thats, a tougher decision.

Speaker #9: Hey, Brian, good afternoon. Brian, you there?

Rob Berkley: Hey, Brian. Good afternoon. Brian, you there?

But I would say that.

You can still grow there's still opportunities.

You don't have to run away at this moment, but it's it will come at some point in time.

Speaker #3: Brian, a reminder to kindly unmute yourself.

Operator: Brian, a reminder to kindly unmute yourself.

Speaker #9: Gotta gotta Chris

William Berkley: Got to press the button. All right. Now you can hear me?

Speaker #8: Press the button. All right. Now you can hear me?

Yes.

Speaker #4: Thanks. Yeah, you're coming through. Thanks, Brian.

Rob Berkley: Thanks. Yeah, you're coming through. Thanks, Brian.

Not quite yet but.

Speaker #8: Awesome. Awesome. So two questions. First one, big picture. So, and maybe this is kind of for you as well as the Chairman. I recall, you know, Bill saying that, you know, one of his biggest regrets from the last hard market was starting to pull back too early.

William Berkley: Awesome. Two questions. First one, big picture. Maybe this is kind of for you as well as the Chairman. I recall, you know, Bill saying that one of his biggest regrets from the last hard market was starting to pull back too early, when there was still healthy margin in the business. Is that a debate that's going on right now? How are we, how are you thinking about that?

It is going to evolve to that point.

It may be shorter duration.

Because of all kinds of other things.

Then the last time, because when those will happen.

Hey, good happened all of a sudden.

Speaker #8: When there was still a healthy margin in the business, is that a debate that's going on right now? How are we thinking about that?

Thank you Brian Thanks for the question and highlighting the genetic flaw that run through the family.

Second question.

Yes, My second question Rob.

Speaker #4: So, you know, Brian, it's funny. I recall that comment from the chairman. Usually, about 7:45 every morning, at least five days a week, so I'm going to yield the floor to him.

Rob Berkley: You know, Brian, it's funny. I recall that comment from the Chairman usually about 7:45 every morning, at least five days a week. I'm going to yield the floor to him.

I know you chat a little bit about the first quarter and you didn't see much Bryan.

Yes, I'm still here.

Please go ahead.

A question on tariffs are you seeing anything yet in your in your loss picks.

Speaker #5: So, I think it's always important to look at your business and say, our prices are going to go down more right there at the bottom.

William Berkley: I think it's always, you look at your business and you say, "Our price is going to go down more, but they're at the bottom. How much margin do you have? And where is the current accident year going to come out?" Because you've had a lot of years of substantial price increases. As all of us know, this is a business where you don't know the ultimate margin for several years after you've written the business. In that case, which was 1986, give or take, we had much more margin than we were reporting. We didn't realize it, and we cut back too soon. There are two pieces to this puzzle. Are you being pessimistic as to the margin you're presenting because you haven't appropriately reflected the price increases? The second question is, where have prices changed and what's happening with the loss ratio?

We are preparing for it but we're not seeing anything particularly consequential.

Yes.

But we are certainly preparing for it.

Speaker #5: How much margin do you have? And where is the current accident you're going to come out? Because you've had a lot of years of substantial price increases.

And all of the product lines as you would expect better more exposed highlighting obviously property and apd.

Okay. Thank you.

Speaker #5: And as all of us know, this is a business where you don't know the ultimate margin for several years after you've written the business.

Your next question comes from the line of Andrew <unk> with TD Cowen. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Hey, good evening.

Speaker #5: And in that case, which was '86, give or take, we had much more margin than we were reporting. We didn't realize it, and we cut back too soon.

First question is.

Is around loss development, it looks like really net nothing.

But wondering if you could talk about.

If you had some releases in one area.

Adverse in another area.

Speaker #5: So there's two pieces to this puzzle. Are you being pessimistic as to the margin you're presenting? Because you haven't appropriately reflected the price increases.

Any color on that you could share would be appreciated.

It was basically incremental between the two segments to your point it was almost a push.

Speaker #5: And then the second question is, where are prices changed? And what's happening with the loss ratio? And that is the issue you face. It was different in 1986 than it is today.

And as you can appreciate there's a lot of moving pieces, that's where it ultimately ended up coming coming out too, but as far as additional detail.

William Berkley: That is the issue you face. It was different in 1986 than it is today. There's more litigation. There are more lawyers who are incentivized to bring about litigation. That's a tougher decision. I would say that you can still grow. There are still opportunities. You don't have to run away at this moment. It will come at some point in time. We would guess it's not here quite yet, but it is going to evolve to that point. It may be shorter duration because of all kinds of other things than last time, because when those losses happen, they can happen all of a sudden.

I don't know if we publish it will it'll be in our Q I guess, Andrew So we we don't have it all in front of us right now.

Speaker #5: There's more litigation. There are more lawyers. You are incentivized to bring about litigation. That's a tougher decision. But I would say that you can still grow.

Lots of top of mind in casualty that stuck out was there adverse there or.

I don't have the numbers in front of me I think we are but as I suggested earlier, we're paying close attention to the auto liability line and we're mindful of what that could mean for the umbrella line.

Speaker #5: There are still opportunities. You don't have to run away at this moment. But it will come. At some point in time, we would guess it's not here quite yet, but it is going to evolve to that point.

Got it.

Then just Rob just your commentary throughout this call.

Speaker #5: It may be a shorter duration because of all kinds of other factors than the last time, because when those losses happen, it can occur all of a sudden.

I'm, just trying to put numbers around it a little bit first quarter.

It seemed very different and you rightly thought you could grow double digit this year last quarter, you were thinking maybe eight to 12 should I be thinking now we've kind of migrated more into the kind of mid single digit zone, just given what you've said about rates et cetera.

Speaker #8: Interesting. Thank you.

Rob Berkley: Interesting. Thank you. Brian, thanks for the question and highlighting the genetic flaw that runs through the family. Did you have a second question?

Speaker #4: Ryan, thanks for the question and for highlighting the genetic flaw that runs through the family. Did you have a second question?

Speaker #8: Yeah, my second question, Rob. I know you've chatted a little bit about the first quarter, and you didn't see much on the second quarter.

William Berkley: Yeah, my second question, Rob. I know you chatted a little bit about the first quarter, and you didn't see much on the second.

You bet.

It could very well be the case, Andrew I think really what I was trying to articulate earlier as you got a lot of pieces of the broader marketplace that are in some kind of flux.

Speaker #8: Yeah, I'm still here. Can you...

Speaker #4: Brian.

Rob Berkley: Brian, you there?

William Berkley: I'm still here. Can you hear me?

Speaker #8: Can you hear me? There are some stopping.

Rob Berkley: Yes.

William Berkley: There I was just stopping.

Speaker #4: Please go ahead.

Rob Berkley: Please go ahead.

Speaker #8: Okay, good. Questions on tariffs. Are you seeing anything yet in your loss picks?

William Berkley: Okay. Good. Questions on tariffs. Are you seeing anything yet in your loss picks?

And we are going to respond to that so is it possible that next quarter, we could grow 4%. Yes is it possible next quarter, we should grow 10% yeah, absolutely. So.

Speaker #4: We are preparing for it, but we're not seeing anything particularly consequential yet. However, we are certainly preparing for it across all the product lines, as you'd expect, that are more exposed.

Rob Berkley: We are preparing for it, but we're not seeing anything particularly consequential yet. We are certainly preparing for it in all the product lines, as you'd expect, that are more exposed, highlighting obviously property and APD.

Can't speak with the level of confidence I would like to and perhaps you would like me to.

Speaker #4: I'm letting obviously property and APD.

Just because of my comment earlier about big chunks of the marketplace being in notable flux.

Speaker #8: Great. Thank you.

William Berkley: Great. Thank you.

Speaker #3: Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Klagerman with TD Cowen. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Kligerman with TD Securities. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Improving some.

Speaker #10: Okay. Good evening. My first question is around loss development. It looks like there's really net nothing, but I'm wondering if you could talk about whether you had some releases in one area and some adverse development in another area. Any color on that you could share would be appreciated.

William Berkley: Okay. Good evening. My first question is around loss development. It looks like really net nothing, but wondering if you could talk about if you had some releases in one area, some adverse in another area. Any color on that you could share would be appreciated.

Eroding.

Sorry, if I could just sneak a quick one when you talked about Barclays business being.

At the small end of the spectrum type accounts and any way to size that I know you even brought a team in from I.

I think the word Hamilton Kinsale.

In the small end.

Any way to size the.

Small end of the spectrum W. R Berkley.

Speaker #4: It was basically incremental between the two segments. To your point, it was almost a push. And as you can appreciate, you know, there are a lot of moving pieces; that's where it ultimately ended up coming out to.

Rob Berkley: It was basically incremental between the two segments. To your point, it was almost a push. As you can appreciate, you know, there's a lot of moving pieces, that's where it ultimately ended up coming out to. As far as additional detail, I don't know if we publish it. It'll be in our queue, I guess, Andrew. We just don't have it all in front of us right now.

So obviously some of the business, we write one way to quantify it would be limits.

As far as giving one.

Sense of scale of accounts that you're right.

Speaker #4: But, you know, as far as additional detail, I don't know if we publish it. Well, it'll be in our queue, I guess, Andrew. So we just don't have it all in front of us right now.

Not the only one but certainly one would be and if you look at the policies that we write some of them like workers comp you have a statutory exposure. So you can have a limit on it. So if you take the stuff out of the pie that has statutory limits like comp and you look at what does that leave you with as far as the limb.

Speaker #10: Any—anything off the top of mind in casualty that, that stuck out? Was there adverse there or?

William Berkley: Anything off the top of mind in casualty that stuck out? Was there adverse there, or?

Speaker #4: I don't have the numbers in front of me. I think we're, as I suggested earlier, we're paying close attention to the auto liability line.

Rob Berkley: I don't have the numbers in front of me. I think we're, as I suggested earlier, we're paying close attention to the auto liability line, and we're mindful of what that could mean for the umbrella line.

<unk> profile I was told by a colleague earlier today that.

85% to 90% approximately of our policies have a limit of $2 $5 million or less.

Speaker #4: And we're mindful of what that could mean for the umbrella line.

Speaker #10: Got Got it. And, and then just, Rob, it, it, it just your, your commentary throughout this call. I'm, I'm just trying to put numbers around it a little bit.

William Berkley: Got it. Rob, your commentary throughout this call, I'm just trying to put numbers around it a little bit. First quarter, the market seemed very different, and you rightly thought you could grow double-digit this year. Last quarter, you were thinking maybe 8 to 12%. Should I be thinking now we've kind of migrated more into the mid-single-digit zone, just given what you've said about rates, etc.?

Very helpful. So I don't know hopefully that gives you some sense or direction.

Thanks, a lot.

Speaker #10: In the first quarter, the market seemed very different, and you rightly thought you could grow double-digit this year. Last quarter, you were thinking maybe 8 to 12.

Thank you Andrew just one other comment even though its smaller account size tends to be very specialized in nature. So I would encourage you not confuse size with commodity.

Speaker #10: Should I be thinking now we've kind of migrated more into the kind of mid-single-digit zone? Just given what you've said about rates, etc.

Got it.

Thanks for the question.

Your next question comes from the line of Mark Hughes with <unk>. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: You know, I, I, it, it, it could very well be the case, Andrew. I think really what I was trying to articulate earlier is you’ve got a lot of pieces of the broader marketplace.

Rob Berkley: It could very well be the case, Andrew. I think really what I was trying to articulate earlier is you got a lot of pieces of the broader marketplace that are in some kind of flux, and we are going to respond to that. Is it possible that next quarter we could grow 4%? Yeah. Is it possible next quarter we could grow 10%? Yeah, absolutely. I can't speak with the level of confidence I'd like to, and perhaps you would like me to, just because of my comment earlier about big chunks of the marketplace being in notable flux.

Hello, Mark good afternoon.

Rob how are you.

Well, thanks, I hope you're well.

Speaker #4: That are in some kind of flux. And we are going to respond to that. So, is it possible that next quarter we could grow 4%?

Thank you a quick follow up on the other liability you said.

You were pivoting the portfolio one of you could expand on that point is there something youre seeing in the loss development trends, perhaps that makes you want to pivot around other liability.

Speaker #4: Yeah. Is it possible next quarter we could grow 10%? Yeah, absolutely. So I can't speak with the level of confidence I'd like to, and perhaps you would like me to, just because of my comment earlier about big chunks of the marketplace.

Uh huh.

Got it.

There are countless different variables. It can include just appetite based on.

General exposure can be based on state.

Speaker #4: Being in, you know, notable flux.

Speaker #10: That that's. s.

William Berkley: That's.

Got it.

Speaker #4: Improving some, you know, eroding.

Rob Berkley: Improving some, you know, eroding.

And it certainly can be based on attachment point. So those would be a couple of examples are variables that can lead to the pivot.

Speaker #10: That's very fair. If I could just sneak a quick one in: when you talk about Berkley's business being at the small end of the spectrum type accounts, is there any way to size that?

William Berkley: That's very fair. If I could just sneak a quick one in. When you talk about Berkley's business being at the small end of the spectrum type accounts, any way to size that? I know you even brought a team in from, I think they were at Hamilton or Kinsale, in the small end. Any way to size the small end of the spectrum at W. R. Berkley in the?

And I think you talked about commercial auto was.

Speaker #10: I know you even brought a team in from, I think they were in Hamilton or Kinsale. in the small end. Like, any, any way to size the small end of the spectrum at, at WR Berkley in, in, in the in the.

Had been volatile lately when you see the pivot is that something that probably.

Persist depending.

Depending on which variables are driving it.

It's something that.

Speaker #4: So, obviously, some of the business we write, you know, one way to quantify it would be limits, as far as giving one a sense of scale and of accounts that you write.

Yes, I would not I would not read too deeply into one quarter would be my comment.

Rob Berkley: Obviously, some of the business we write, one way to quantify it would be limits, as far as giving one a sense of scale of accounts that you write. It is not the only one, but certainly one would be. If you look at the policies that we write, some of them, like workers' comp, you have a statutory exposure, so you can't have a limit on it. If you take the stuff out of the pie that has statutory limits like comp, and you look at what does that leave you with as far as a limits profile, I was told by a colleague earlier today that between 85% and 90%, approximately, of our policies have a limit of $2.5 million or less.

Very good thank you.

Thanks for the question.

Speaker #4: And not the only one, but certainly one would be. If you look at the policies that we write, some of them, like workers' comp, have a statutory exposure, so you can't have a limit on it.

Your next question comes from the line of David Martin with Evercore ISI. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: So if you take the stuff out of the pie, that has statutory limits like comp, and you look at what does that leave you with as far as the limits profile, I was told by a colleague earlier today that between 85 and 90 percent approximately of our policies have a limit of two and a half million dollars or less.

David Good afternoon.

Good afternoon can you guys hear me.

Yes. Thank you.

Okay great.

Just just had another follow up just on the other liability line.

You had mentioned there are some some pockets of competition picking up there I was wondering if you could elaborate is that more.

Speaker #10: Very helpful.

William Berkley: Very helpful.

Speaker #4: So, I don't know; you know, hopefully, that gives you some sense or direction.

Rob Berkley: I don't know, you know, hopefully that gives you some sense or direction.

Mary casualty.

Speaker #10: Okay. Definitely. Thanks a lot.

Is it more SaaS or umbrella.

William Berkley: Definitely. Thanks a lot.

Speaker #4: Yep. Thank you. You know, Andrew, just one other comment. Even though it's a smaller account size, it tends to be very specialized in nature. So I would encourage you not to confuse size with commodity.

Rob Berkley: Thank you. You know, Andrew, just one other comment. Even though it's smaller account size, it tends to be very specialized in nature. I would encourage you not to confuse size with commodity.

E&S law more large account.

Admitted any any sort of color on that would be would be helpful.

There are certain exposures that we have examined and given how we see the legal environment, we've adjusted our appetite.

Speaker #10: Got it. Thanks for the question.

William Berkley: Got it.

And that comes through both to both in the exposure itself as well as in some cases, how we think about attachment point and certainly how we think about jurisdiction of exposure.

Rob Berkley: Thanks for the question.

Speaker #3: Your next question comes from the line of Mark Hughes with Truist. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Mark Hughes with Truist Securities. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Hello, Mark. Good afternoon.

Rob Berkley: Hello, Mark. Good afternoon.

Speaker #8: Hey, Rob. How are you?

William Berkley: Hey, Rob. How are you?

Speaker #4: Well, thanks. I hope you're well.

Rob Berkley: Thanks. I hope you're well.

Got it okay. So that sounds like across both primary GL, an umbrella it sounds like sort of a bulk wide comment.

Speaker #8: I am. Thank you. A quick follow-up on the other liability you mentioned: you said that you were pivoting the portfolio. One of you could expand on that point.

William Berkley: I am. Thank you. A quick follow-up on the other liability. You said that you were pivoting the portfolio. I wonder if you could expand on that point. Is there something you're seeing in the loss development trends, perhaps, that makes you want to pivot around other liability?

Is that correct.

Correct and those changes are well underway and I don't think that you should assume that this is necessarily a perfect indicator for what to expect going forward because.

Speaker #8: Is there something you're seeing in the loss development trends, perhaps, that makes you want to pivot around other liabilities?

Speaker #4: it, it can ha there are countless different variables and it, it could include just appetite based on, just general exposure. It can be based on, state.

A lot of that change has been affected.

Rob Berkley: There are countless different variables, and it could include just appetite based on just general exposure. It can be based on state, and it certainly can be based on attachment point. Those would be a couple of examples or variables that can lead to the pivot.

Got it okay. That's helpful.

And then maybe.

Yes, just on workers' comp.

Speaker #4: It certainly can be based on attachment points. So, those would be a couple of examples or variables that can lead to the pivot.

Yeah, and you sort of mentioned it a little bit in your prepared remarks.

But pretty good growth. This quarter also this year to date as well.

Speaker #8: And I think you talked about how commercial auto had been volatile lately. When you see this pivot, is that something that will probably persist?

William Berkley: I think you talked about how commercial auto had been volatile lately. When you see this pivot, is that something that probably persists depending on, you know, which variables are driving it? Is that something that is, or?

Could you remind me how much of the book is.

That you guys would say specialty or high hazard.

How much of it is main street, just so I can sort of think about the moving pieces underneath that 9% growth this quarter.

Speaker #8: I depending on, you know, which variables are driving it, is that something that is gonna? Or, yeah.

Rob Berkley: I would not read too deeply into one quarter would be my comment.

Speaker #4: I would not read too deeply into one quarter, would be my comment.

So what I'd like to do if you don't mind, David as I got to make sure that detail that we provide and to the extent. It is if you don't mind, Karen I'll follow up with you first thing tomorrow.

Speaker #8: There you go. Thank you.

William Berkley: Very good. Thank you.

Speaker #4: Thanks for the question.

Rob Berkley: Thanks for the question.

Speaker #3: Your next question comes from the line of David Motemaden with Evercore ISI. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of David Motemaden with Evercore ISI. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

I, just I don't want to inadvertently color outside the lines.

Got it thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Michael Zaremski with BMO. Your line is now open Hi, Mark go ahead.

Speaker #4: David? Good afternoon.

Rob Berkley: David, good afternoon.

Speaker #8: Good afternoon, David. Can you guys hear me?

William Berkley: Good afternoon, Rob. Can you guys hear me?

Speaker #4: Yep, we can. Thank you.

Rob Berkley: Yep, we can. Thank you.

Good afternoon, Mike Hi, James.

Speaker #8: Okay. Great. just, just had another follow-up just on the, the other liability line. you had mentioned, you know, there, there are some, some pockets of competition picking up there.

William Berkley: Okay. Great. Just had another follow-up just on the other liability line. You had mentioned, you know, there are some pockets of competition picking up there. I was wondering if you could elaborate. Is that more primary casualty? Is it more excess or umbrella? E&S, you know, more large account, admitted? You know, any sort of color on that would be helpful.

My first question is.

Broad focusing on the E&S market specifically.

At least the data points, we see is the deceleration of the increased competitiveness in the growth in the E&S market you mentioned to in your prepared remarks is coming more so from the pricing side of the <unk>.

Speaker #8: I was wondering if you could elaborate. Is that more primary casualty? Is it more excess or umbrella? E&S, you know, more large account?

Growth equation, whereas.

Policies in force are continuing to.

To grow at a double digit pace.

Speaker #8: Admitted, you know, any sort of color on that would be helpful.

Yes, I'm just curious from your perspective is that.

If to the extent pricing continues to moderate should we.

Rob Berkley: There are certain exposures that we've examined, and given how we see the legal environment, we've adjusted our appetite. That comes through both in the exposure itself, as well as in some cases, how we think about attachment point and certainly how we think about jurisdiction of exposure.

But it's been normal for you.

No.

Policy growth two to also kind of start moving back into the primary market are you seeing any trends there because it feels like the policy causes what really what's supporting ultimately a lot of the still healthy growth in DNS.

So.

William Berkley: Got it. Okay. That sounds like across both primary GL and umbrella. It sounds like sort of a book-wide comment. Is that correct?

A couple of things there one I think when we talk about E&S one needs to draw the distinction between the property lines and other other being professional and certainly casualty.

Rob Berkley: Correct. Those changes are well underway, and I don't think that you should assume that this is necessarily a perfect indicator for what to expect going forward, because a lot of that change has been affected.

Long story short a lot of the growth that we have seen over the past couple of years within E&S has been disproportionately driven by property we share the observation in the past that when the property market gets hard oftentimes it tends to Spike and then it comes back down.

William Berkley: Got it. Okay. That's helpful. Maybe, you know, just on workers' comp, you sort of mentioned it a little bit in your prepared remarks. Pretty good growth this quarter, also this year to date as well. Could you remind me how much of the book is that you guys would say is specialty or high hazard, versus how much of it is Main Street, just so I can sort of think about the moving pieces underneath that, 9% growth this quarter?

It's somewhat of a precipitous rate as opposed to the liability market. When it starts to harden it tends to oftentimes be a bit more of a gradual ascent and it has more staying power.

As an organization within the commercial lines, particularly.

Our specialty and more specifically E&S, we are much more of a liability player than we are our property player. So did we pass a bit of the property wave yeah, but that having been said the lion's share of our E&S participation on a net basis.

Rob Berkley: What I'd like to do, if you don't mind, David, is, A, I got to make sure that that's detail that we provide. To the extent it is, if you don't mind, Karen, I'll follow up with you first thing tomorrow. I just don't want to inadvertently color outside the lines.

Happens to be the liability lines.

So when I think about this market unfolding and I think we've expressed this view in the past.

William Berkley: Got it. Thank you.

<unk> property.

Barring the unforeseen event and it would have to be very unforeseen I think the bloom is off the rose I think youre seeing the retro market starting to erode that will waterfall down into the property cat market and certainly youre going to see that avid continued pressure on E&S property, we as an organization will be.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Mike Zaremski with BMO. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Rob Berkley: Good afternoon, Mike.

William Berkley: Hi, Jens. My first question is, you know, broad, focusing on the E&S market specifically. The data points we see is the deceleration or the increased competitiveness and the growth in the E&S market. You mentioned it too in your prepared remarks, is coming more so from the pricing side of the growth equation, whereas policies in force are continuing to grow at a double-digit pace. I'm just curious, from your perspective, if to the extent pricing continues to moderate, should we, would it be normal for the policy growth to also kind of start moving back into the primary market? Are you seeing any trends there? It feels like the policy growth is really what's supporting ultimately a lot of the still healthy growth in E&S.

Impacted by that but it will be far less than our peers because of our weighting towards the liability line I think social inflation continues to be an issue and you are going to see the opportunity within the E&S space become more and more weighted towards the liability lines, particularly casualty.

Good afternoon, Mike. Hi, Jens. Um, my first question is, um, you know, broad, uh, focusing on the ENS market specifically. You know, the, at least the data points we see is, you know, the desolation of the increased competitiveness and the growth in the ENS market. You mentioned it too in your prepared remarks, um, is coming more so from the pricing side of the growth equation, whereas.

Zinc professional is a bit of a mixed bag.

Okay. That's helpful. My.

My follow up Rob is back to the earlier comments on the ratings.

<unk> capital models and the.

There are sources for me, Chris Rolling out, perhaps a 10 digit access capital numbers. So.

Words make it will make it a $1 billion divide that by our shareholders' equity.

Over 10% is data is that 10% a much higher level than historically.

Rob Berkley: A couple of things there. One, I think when we talk about E&S, one needs to draw the distinction between the property lines and other, other being professional and certainly, casualty. Long story short, a lot of the growth that we have seen over the past couple of years within E&S has been disproportionately driven by property. We've shared the observation in the past that when the property market gets hard, oftentimes it tends to spike, and then it comes back down at somewhat of a precipitous rate. As opposed to the liability market, when it starts to harden, it tends to oftentimes be a bit more of a gradual ascent, and it has more staying power. We, as an organization within the commercial lines, particularly specialty and more specifically E&S, are much more of a liability player than we are a property player.

Policies enforce are continuing to to, to grow at a double-digit pace. Um, you know, I'm just curious from your perspective is that, you know, if to the extent pricing continues to moderate, should we, you know, would it would it be normal for, you know, the the policy growth to to also kind of start moving back into the primary Market or are you seeing any any Trends there because it feels like the policy growth is what really what's supporting ultimately a lot of the the still Healthy Growth in DNS?

And do we care about the range of capital might argue managed.

Two different <unk>.

Thanks.

The answer is we care about everything, but we don't run the business for the rating agencies. We run we are conscious of those data points.

So, um, a couple of things there: 1, I think, when we talk about ENS, we need to draw the distinction between the property lines and other categories, being professional and certainly, casualty.

The math you did I'm not going to comment on whether that's right or wrong I just was trying to articulate at the point that we have a lot of cushion and we will figure out how to deal with the surplus in what we believe is the most sensible and economic way to return excess to the owners.

It belongs to.

So.

I think if you look at our capital ratios over an extended period of time.

There is no moment in time that I recall that we from a ratio perspective, I've had the amount of headroom that we have today.

Um, long story short, a lot of the growth that we have seen over the past couple of years within EMS has been disproportionately driven by property. We've shared the observation in the past that when the property market gets hard, oftentimes it tends to spike and then it comes back down at somewhat of a precipitous rate as opposed to the liability market. When it starts to harden, it tends to often be a bit more of a gradual ascent and it has more staying power. We, as an organization within the commercial lines, particularly specialty and, more specifically, ENS, we are much more of a...

Rob Berkley: Did we catch a bit of the property wave? Yeah. That having been said, the lion's share of our E&S participation on a net basis happens to be the liability lines. When I think about this market unfolding, and I think we've expressed this view in the past, I think property has, barring the unforeseen event, and it would have to be very unforeseen, I think the bloom is off the rose. You're seeing the retro market starting to erode. That will waterfall down into the property cat market. Certainly, you're going to see that have a continued pressure on E&S property. We, as an organization, will be impacted by that, but it will be far less than our peers because of our weighting towards the liability lines.

Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Anderson with Jefferies. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Hey, good afternoon Andrea good.

Liability player, then we are a property player. So did we catch a bit of the property wave? Yeah. But that having been said, the lion's share of our participation on a net basis happens to be the liability lines.

Good afternoon, just look at the investment portfolio I think I heard you say four six on the domestic yield book, So maybe some pressure on the Argentina side I was maybe if you could just comment on that but obviously the team has come.

Argentina has come off.

A little bit from the peak, if you throw Argentina and their brings up to four eight what we're really trying to articulate is the lion's share of the portfolio is no surprise.

Domestic highly rated bonds call it strong double a minus.

Rob Berkley: I think social inflation continues to be an issue, and you are going to see the opportunity within the E&S space become more and more weighted towards the liability lines, particularly casualty. I think professional is a bit of a mixed bag.

And again the duration is sitting at the two nine.

And really again the highlight that we were trying to flag was if you compare four six to five.

There is opportunity for improvement from here Okay.

Okay, Great and then just looking at the expense ratio and then the corporate expense at the consolidated level. It seems like that number is lower than what the year to date or the first half was so high.

William Berkley: Okay. That's helpful. My follow-up, Rob, is back to the earlier comments on the rating agency capital models and their sausage maker throwing out, you know, perhaps a 10-digit excess capital number. In my words, maybe we'll make it a billion, divide that by our stockholders’ equity. That's, you know, whatever, 10%. Is that 10% a much higher level than historically, and do we care about the rating agency capital model or do you manage two different models? Thanks.

So when I think about this market unfolding, and I think we've expressed this view in the past, I think property has, barring any unforeseen event—and it would have to be very unforeseen—I think the boom is off the roads. I think you're seeing the retro markets starting to erode, and that will waterfall down into the property cap market. Certainly, you're going to see that have a continued pressure on E&S property. We, as an organization, will be impacted by that, but it will be far less than our peers because of our weighting towards the liability line. I think social inflation continues to be an issue, and you are going to see the opportunity within the E&S space become more and more weighted towards the liability line, particularly casualty. I think professional is a bit of a mixed bag.

Right.

Are we still pushing as far as the <unk> ratio was one <unk>.

I'm just looking at the expense ratio and then looking at the corporate expense it looks like that's a little bit lower relative to our first half. So I guess are you pushing some expenses into the segment and where are we with that.

Okay, that's helpful. And my, my follow-up of Rob is back to the earlier comments on the, uh, rating agency Capital models and the, um, their sausage maker throwing out, you know, perhaps a, a 10 digit Access Capital number. So, uh, in my words, maybe we'll make it a billion to buy that by our shareholders Equity. That's, um,

Rich is just not paying the holding company anymore.

Richard.

A couple of things one as you pointed out we have had some of that startup operating units move.

Rob Berkley: The answer is we care about everything, but we don't run the business for the rating agencies. We are conscious of those data points. The math you did, I'm not going to comment on whether that's right or wrong. I just was trying to articulate the point that we have a lot of cushion, and we will figure out how to deal with the surplus and what we believe is the most sensible and economic way to return excess to the owners that it belongs to. I think if you look at our capital ratios over an extended period of time, there is no moment in time that I recall that we, from a ratio perspective, have had the amount of headroom that we have today.

You know, whatever 10% is that a, is that 10% a much higher level than historically? Um, and do we care about the radiation Capital model? Do, do you manage to to to to different, uh, models? Thanks?

Move out of that corporate expenses, they've got scale and move into the underwriting expenses.

And the second item is with regards to in the first half of the year you might remember we had also.

Paid a special dividend and.

For accounting purposes.

But mandatorily deferred rsum, the dividends on that wind up getting characterized as compensation expense.

Too.

The driver as far as the first piece goes those businesses that Rick referred to that one.

Get to a certain maturity remove them out there.

So, um, I think if you look at our capital ratios over an extended period of time, uh,

Our moved out but they are dilutive to the expense ratio. So hopefully they will continue to scale and that we will get some relief there.

There is no moment in time that I recall where we, from a ratio perspective, have had the amount of headroom that we have today.

William Berkley: Thank you.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Anderson with Jefferies. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Your next question comes from the line of Josh Shanker with Bank of America. Your line is open. Please go ahead, yes, hi, Josh.

William Berkley: Hey, good afternoon.

Rob Berkley: Hello, Andrew.

Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Anderson with Jefferies. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

William Berkley: Good afternoon. Just looking at the investment portfolio, I think I heard you say 4.6 on the domestic yield book, so maybe some pressure on the Argentina side. I was wondering if you could just comment on that.

Good evening to you all.

Good evening.

So.

As I listen to the.

The <unk> conference call commentary from some brokers from your peers. There was a commentary that the E&S property markets were very very weak and that contributed to that we just stay tuned for <unk>, which is a low property quarter everything is rosy.

Rob Berkley: Yeah, Argentina's come off a little bit from the peak. If you throw Argentina in there, it brings it up to 4.8%. What we were really trying to articulate is the lion's share of the portfolio is, no surprise, domestic highly rated bonds, call it strong AA minus. You know, again, the duration is sitting at 2.9. Really, the highlight that we were trying to flag was if you compare 4.6% to 5%, there's an opportunity for improvement from here.

Hey, good afternoon. Just looking at the investment portfolio, I think I heard you say 4.6 on the domestic yield book, so maybe there's some pressure on the Argentina side. I was wondering if we could just comment on the balance charging team has come.

Has come off of.

In the <unk>.

In the other lines of business and so we won't see that same headwind and then when you began your prepared remarks with the word self sabotage I got very very concerned.

Okay.

Et cetera.

So thats how it sounds like an extreme thing I mean, we're all guilty of it from time to time, but hopefully in modest amounts.

William Berkley: Okay. Great. Just looking at the expense ratio and then the corporate expense at the consolidated level, it seems like that number is lower than what the year to date or the first half was. I guess.

A little bit from the peak. If you throw Argentina in there, it brings it up to 48. What we were really trying to articulate is the lion's share of the portfolio is no surprise. The domestic highly rated bonds, call it strong double A minus, and you know again the duration sitting at 29. Really, again, the highlight that we were trying to flag was if you compare 46 to 5, you know there's opportunity for improvement from here.

Bob.

What is the takeaway I guess on pricing right now compared to.

Three months ago is it along the same track or did you see a real step down I guess compared to three months ago.

Rob Berkley: Sorry, are we still pushing the expense ratio as what?

William Berkley: I'm just looking at the expense ratio and then looking at the corporate expense, and it looks like that's a little bit lower relative to where first half. I guess are you pushing some expenses into the segment? Where are we with that?

Okay, great. And then just looking at the expense ratio and then the, the corporate expense at the Consolidated level, it seems like that number is lower than what the year to date or the first half was. Um, so are we still pushing the expense ratio is what

Or are we talking of what part of the market are we talking about Josh I just want to make for a forward book relative to the marketplace. When you in your book.

Rob Berkley: Rich is just not paying on the holding company anymore. Richard.

Our overall book I think was essentially flat obviously, there are a lot of moving pieces, but as far as the rate increase goes I think we were at 7% fixed.

I'm just looking at the expense ratio and then looking at the corporate expense, and it looks like that's a little bit lower relative to where it was in the first half. So I guess, are you pushing some expenses into the segment, and where are we with that?

[Analyst]: It's a couple of things. It's one, as you pointed out, we have had some of our startup operating units move out of our corporate expenses. They've gotten to scale and move into the underwriting expenses. The second item is with regards to, in the first half of the year, you might remember we had also paid a special dividend. For accounting purposes, the vested but mandatorily deferred RSUs, the dividends on that wind up getting characterized as compensation expense. That's the driver.

Rich, is this not paying on the holding company anymore?

And we were give or take at a similar level last time that we get there exactly the same way absolutely not but.

Richie, it's a couple of things. As you pointed out, we have had some of our startup operating units.

Lately I think that by and large it's been similar place the parts of the market that at this moment in time are under the greatest pressure.

Again in our mind or youre going to see it with property cat and that likely will not become particularly visible until one one but in the meantime, you certainly are seeing it in E&S property and that.

Rob Berkley: As far as the first piece goes, those businesses that Rich referred to that, you know, once they get to a certain maturity, we move them out. They are moved out, but they are dilutive to the expense ratio. Hopefully, they will continue to scale, and that will get some relief there.

Move out of our corporate expenses. They've gotten a scale and move into the underwriting expenses um and the second item is with regards to in the first half of the year, you might remember we had also um, paid a special dividend and for accounting purposes, the uh vested but mandatorily deferred ours, use the dividends on that wind up getting a characterized as compensation expense.

While we are not a big player in that space, We're certainly an observer and a modest participant.

That's how it looks to us, but again why is our rate where it is.

Because were a modest participant in the part of the market Thats under the greatest pressure right now doesn't mean, we're insulated completely as suggested earlier, but.

William Berkley: Okay, thank you.

So that's the driver as far as the first piece. Those businesses that referred to that, you know, once they get to a certain maturity, we move them out. They are moved out, but they are dilutive to the expense ratio, so hopefully they will continue to scale, and that will get some, uh, relief there.

Okay, thank you.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Josh Shanker with Bank of America. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

We have again, a pretty broad offering.

And we only have a toe in that pool and there is ways to compete for business. In this environment are you seeing carriers offer to increase our commissions to our distributors in order to get a larger share of their business.

Rob Berkley: Yeah, thank you, Mark.

William Berkley: Hi, Josh. Good afternoon.

Rob Berkley: Good evening to you all.

Your next question comes from the line of Josh Chancre with Bank of America. Your line is open, please go ahead. Yeah, thank you.

William Berkley: Good evening.

Good evening to you all.

Rob Berkley: As I'm listening to the 2Q conference call commentaries from some brokers, from your peers, there was a commentary that the E&S property markets were very, very weak, and that contributed to their weakness. That stay tuned for 3Q, which is a low property quarter, everything's rosy in the other lines of business. We won't see that same headwind. When you began your prepared remarks with the word self-sabotage, I got very, very concerned.

I think that chapter two worth fill in chapter one.

Sure Okay. That's it for the long book.

Thanks, Josh.

Your next question comes from the line of Meyer Shields with Keefe Bruyette.

All right Mary how are you.

How are you doing im hoping incoming great. Thanks.

William Berkley: Okay.

Yes, we can hear you. Thank you great. So a couple of quick questions one going back to the pivoting comment you mentioned the legal environment has your overall view of casualty loss trends changed over the past three to six months.

Rob Berkley: Because.

William Berkley: I'm sorry to upset you. You know.

Rob Berkley: I mean, the self-sabotage sounds like an extreme thing. We are all guilty of it from time to time, but hopefully in modest amounts. What is the takeaway, I guess, on pricing right now compared to three months ago? Is it along the same track, or did you see a real step down, I guess, compared to three months ago? Are we talking.

Good evening. Uh, so, you know, as I listened to the, uh, the, you know, the 2q conference call Cam chairs from some Brokers from your peers. There was a commentary that the, uh, ens a property markets, were very, very weak and that contributed to their weakness, but that stay tuned for 3 Q, which is a low property quarter, everything's Rosy, um, in the, uh, in the upper lines of business. And so we won't see that same headwind and then when you began your prepared remarks, with the word self-sabotage, I got very, very concerned. Um, okay. Try to upset you, uh, you know, I mean, the, the self that sounds like an extreme thing. I mean, we, we're all guilty of it from time to time, but hopefully, in in, in in modest amounts.

No.

Okay perfect.

And then I know the numbers are small, but I'm looking at most interest rates sort of declining in the quarter and in extending duration and I'm wondering what is it that youre seeing that makes now the right time for that duration extension.

Um, what is the takeaway, I guess, on pricing right now compared to, um, three months ago? Is it along the same track, or did you see a real step down, I guess, compared to, uh, three months ago?

William Berkley: What part of the market are we talking about, Josh? I just want to make sure I'm following.

Rob Berkley: Your book relative to the marketplace. When you look at your book, is the.

Well I think just to frame it.

From two eight to $2 nine.

William Berkley: Our overall book, I think, was essentially flat. Obviously, there are a lot of moving pieces. As far as the rate increase goes, I think we were at 7.6%, and we were, give or take, at a similar level last time. Did we get there exactly the same way? Absolutely not. Ultimately, I think that by and large, it's in a similar place. The parts of the market that at this moment in time are under the greatest pressure, again, in our mind, you're going to see it with property cat, and that likely will not become particularly visible until 1/1. In the meantime, you certainly are seeing it in E&S property. While we are not a big player in that space, we're certainly an observer and a modest participant. That's how it looks to us. Again, why is our rate where it is?

There is a little bit of rounding in there. So I would encourage you not to read too deeply into it.

Obviously, we try to be opportunistic at any moment in time as far as putting the money out that luxury of opportunism is not as comfortable as it was in the past as short term rates are coming down so that will put more pressure on the organization to put money to work, but again.

<unk> gone from two eight to $2 nine I would caution you not to read too deeply into it now I'd like to go back to the first question for a moment if I may.

So our general view is.

Around.

Loss cost trend and the environment is consistent.

But our view about particular niches within the marketplace, we are constantly examining and reexamining and Matt can instruct our appetite at a more granular level.

They will not become particularly visible until 1 1, but in the meantime, you certainly are seeing it in ens property and that from while we are not a big player in that space, you know, we're we're certainly an observer and a, a modest participant and that's how it looks to us.

William Berkley: Because we're a modest participant in the part of the market that's under the greatest pressure right now. It doesn't mean we're insulated completely, as suggested earlier, but we have, again, a pretty broad offering. We only have a toe in that pool.

But again, why is our rate where it is?

It's not all on or off.

Right understood. Thank you very much.

Sure Thanks for the questions.

Because we're a modest participant in the part of the market that's under the greatest pressure right now. That doesn't mean we're insulated completely, as suggested earlier, but, you know, we have, again, a pretty broad offering.

Your next question comes from the line of Bob <unk> with Morgan Stanley. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Rob Berkley: There are different ways to compete for business. In this environment, are you seeing carriers offer to increase commissions to distributors in order to get a larger share of their business?

Hello.

Good evening, how are you guys.

Very well how come you're well too.

Yeah, Yeah, we're doing well.

William Berkley: I think that's chapter two. We're still in chapter one.

And we only have a toe in that pool, and there are different ways to compete for business in this environment. Are you seeing carriers offer to increase commissions to distributors in order to get a larger share of their business?

This is just more of a follow up.

Rob Berkley: We're still in chapter one. Okay, that's it for me.

Obviously, you talked about that.

I think that chapter 2, we're still in chapter 1.

William Berkley: Thank you.

Rob Berkley: I think that's a long book.

The cost of varying lines of business, our decoupling from a pricing perspective.

William Berkley: Thanks, Josh.

We're still in Chapter 1. Okay, that's it for me. Thank you, thank you for the long buff.

Thanks Josh.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Meyer Shields with KBW.

Essentially turn on and turn off growth can you maybe help us to understand how.

How quickly you can turn that growth say, the 4% or 10% or you were referring to earlier, just maybe help us understand the mechanics that you or is it just simply just saying, okay, we're going to stop doing business here.

Your next question comes from the line of Mayor Shields with Keith Briette.

Rob Berkley: All right, Meyer, how are you?

William Berkley: I am well. How are you doing? I'm hoping I'm coming through.

Rob Berkley: Good, thanks.

William Berkley: Yes, it's good to hear you. Thank you. Great. A couple of quick questions. One, going back to the pivoting comment, you mentioned the legal environment. Has your overall view of casualty loss trends changed over the past three to six months?

All right. Mayor, how are you? I am well. How are you doing? I'm hoping I'm coming through.

Want to understand how youre thinking about growth.

Managing the ability to go in and out of the market.

I think ultimately it's really just about market conditions and we are consistently in the marketplace.

Rob Berkley: No.

You can hear me? Thank you, great. So, a couple of quick questions. 1. Going back to the pivoting comment you mentioned regarding the legal environment, has your overall view of casualty loss trends changed over the past 3 to 6 months?

William Berkley: Okay. Perfect. I know the numbers are small, but I'm looking at most interest rates sort of declining in the quarter and an extending duration. I'm wondering, what is it that you're seeing that makes now the right time for that duration extension?

No.

Right level with terms and conditions that we find to be appropriate the market may move away from us or when we are talking about how we were pivoting in some of the other liability it's not necessarily that we just washed our hands of it but we have a view on right. We have a view on attachment that we have a view on terms of <unk>.

Okay, perfect. Um, I know the numbers are small, but I'm looking at most interest rates sort of declining in the quarter and an extending duration. I'm wondering what it is that you're seeing that makes now the right time for that duration extension.

Rob Berkley: I think just to frame it, we went from 2.8 to 2.9, and there's a little bit of rounding in there. I would encourage you not to read too deeply into it. Obviously, we try to be opportunistic at any moment in time as far as putting the money out. That luxury of opportunism is not as comfortable as it was in the past as short-term rates are coming down. That will put more pressure on the organization to put money to work. Again, going from 2.8 to 2.9, I would caution you not to read too deeply into it. I'd like to go back to the first question for a moment, if I may. Our general view around loss cost trend in the environment is consistent.

Conditions, and perhaps the market doesn't find it palatable and perhaps the market can find someone else is willing to do it. So again, it's not that we abandon our market is that our appetite and how we're willing to approach. It can adjust based on the data and the information that we see and how we process that.

So our ability to do that we can do it very quickly.

Got it.

We rely on our colleagues with the expertise and various niches to decide how and when to pivot.

Okay. Now that's very helpful. Thank you for that very last one in terms of the market competition.

Well I I think just to frame it, we went from 28 to 29 and there's a little bit of rounding in there so I would encourage you not to read too deeply into it. Um you know, obviously we try to be opportunistic at any moment in time as far as putting the money out, that luxury of opportunism is not is comfortable as it was in the past. As short-term rates are are coming down so that will put more pressure on the organization to put money to work. But again going from 28 to 29, I would cost you not to read too deeply uh into it now. I'd like to go back to the the first question for a moment. If I may

so, our general View,

Talk about a decent amount of businesses in the smaller market side of it.

Rob Berkley: Our view about particular niches within the marketplace, we are constantly examining and reexamining, and that can instruct our appetite at a more granular level. It's not all on or all off.

Now.

If we do go into a more challenging macroeconomic environment are you perhaps concerned about.

Small and medium enterprise tend to be more exposed to macroeconomic conditions. So consequently that could potentially play into.

Around, uh, lost cost trends in the environment are consistent. But our view about particular niches within the marketplace is that we are constantly examining and re-examining, and that can instruct our appetite at a more granular level.

William Berkley: Right. Understood. Thank you very much.

It's not all on or all off.

Your core market like just curious how you think about that.

Rob Berkley: Sure, thanks for the questions.

Right. Understood. Thank you very much.

Sure, thanks for the question.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Bob-John Huang with Morgan Stanley. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

So the answer is no while we're conscious of it and certainly the health and well being of our clients is a priority for us if you use COVID-19 as a data point actually.

Rob Berkley: Hello. Good evening.

You're next question comes from the line of Bob Jian, Huang with Morgan Stanley. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

William Berkley: Hey, Tim.

Rob Berkley: Good evening. How are you guys?

William Berkley: We're well. Hope you're well too?

Hello, good morning. How are you guys?

We're able to navigate through that and we're pleased with.

[Analyst]: Yeah, we're doing well. This is just more of a follow-up. Previously, you talked about that, because the varying lines of business are decoupling from a pricing perspective, you can essentially turn on and turn off growth. Can you maybe help us to understand how quickly you can turn that growth, say, the 4% or the 10% you were referring to earlier? Just maybe help us understand the mechanics that you visit. Just simply saying, "Okay, we're going to stop doing business here." I'm trying to understand how you're thinking about growth and managing the ability to go in and out of a market.

Very well. How are you? Well, too.

How are clients fared and our ability to continue.

Support them.

Okay.

Thank you that's very helpful. Thank you very much.

Thank you for the question and have a good evening.

Your final question comes from the line of Wes Carmichael with Autonomous Research. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Good evening with.

Once you're there.

West a reminder to kindly on me I'm sorry.

Rob Berkley: I think ultimately, it's really just about market conditions. We are consistently in the marketplace at a rate level with terms and conditions that we find to be appropriate. The market may move away from us. When we were talking about how we were pivoting with some of the other liability, it's not necessarily that we just washed our hands of it, but we have a view on rate, we have a view on attachment, and we have a view on terms and conditions. Perhaps the market doesn't find it palatable. Perhaps the market can find someone else who's willing to do it. It's not that we abandon a market. Our appetite and how we're willing to approach it can adjust based on the data and the information that we see and how we process that. That's in our ability to do that. We can do it very quickly.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, we're doing well. Um, this is just more of a follow-up. Um, previously, you talked about that, um, because of the varying lines of business, are decoupling from a pricing perspective. Uh, you can essentially turn on and turn off growth. Can you maybe help us to understand? Uh, how quickly you can turn that growth say the 4% or the 10% you're referring to earlier because maybe help us understand the mechanics that you visit just simply just saying, okay we're going to stop doing business here because I'm trying to understand how you're thinking about growth and and and managing the the the ability to go in and out of the market.

Yes, we can hear you. Thank you.

Great. So just one question, but just coming back around to your comments around property and property Cat reinsurance you mentioned, the writing of the Apple or at least an impending routing in the Apple I just wanted to get.

Your view curious your view because it seems like there's a lot of rhetoric that property is still rate adequate but do you think we're really there where things could start to turn at one one.

Or is that going to take more time.

I think it depends on what the feeding frenzy is liked it one one.

Everyone needs to assess how much margin I think is in the business, obviously rates went up dramatically attachment points shifted.

<unk> so.

So on and so forth.

And while we.

Whatever nine months ago, we saw.

A softening and I think the expectation is given the performance it's likely there will be further softening at one one for this coming year.

[Analyst]: Got it. No, that's very helpful.

I think ultimately it's really just about market conditions. And we are consistently in the marketplace at a rate level with terms and conditions that we find to be appropriate. The market may move away from us or you know when we are talking about how we were pivoting, some of the other liability, it's not necessarily that we just washed our hands of it, but we have a view on rate, we have a view on attachment and we have a view on terms and conditions and perhaps the market doesn't find it palatable and perhaps the market can find someone else who's willing to do it. So again it's not that we abandon a market it's that our appetite and how we're willing to approach it can adjust based on the data and the information that we see and how we process that. Uh, so that's and our ability to do that, we can do it very quickly.

Rob Berkley: We rely on our colleagues with the expertise in various niches to decide how and when to pivot.

We'll have to see how aggressive the market is.

<unk>.

[Analyst]: Okay. No, that's very helpful. Thank you for that. Very last one. In terms of the market competition, you kind of talked about a decent amount of businesses in the smaller market side of it. Now, if we do go into a more challenging macroeconomic environment, are you perhaps concerned about the small and medium enterprise, tend to be more exposed to macroeconomic conditions? Consequently, that could potentially play into your core market. Just curious how you think about that.

Aye.

No, that's, and you rely on our colleagues with the expertise in various niches to decide how and when to pivot.

We have a view as to how much margin is in the business and where and at what point, we shift our posture from.

Offensive one to a defensive one.

That's just the reality of a cyclical business.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you for the question.

Nicole was there anyone else or if we are.

Covered it we've covered it there are no further questions at this time I will now turn the call back to Mr. Rob Berkley for closing remarks.

Rob Berkley: The answer is no. While we're conscious of it, and certainly the health and well-being of our clients is a priority for us, if you use COVID as a data point, actually, we were able to navigate through that. We're pleased with how our clients fared and our ability to continue to support them.

Okay, no, that that's very helpful. Thank you for that. Uh, very last 1, uh, in terms of the market competition. Uh, you kind of talked about, uh, a decent amount of businesses in the smaller Market side of the, uh, now, uh, if we do go into a more challenging macroeconomic environment, are you, perhaps concerned about the M, uh, small and medium Enterprise, uh, tend to be more exposed to macroeconomic conditions. So, consequently, that could potentially play into, uh, uh, your your, your core market? Like, just curious how you think about that.

Okay. Nicole Thank you very much for your assistance and hosting thank you all to the participants for your interest in the organization.

Hopefully, it's quite evident we had a very strong quarter, but equally if not more importantly, the table is set for a good balance of the year and in all likelihood a very strong 2026.

[Analyst]: Thank you. That's very helpful. Thank you very much.

So the the answer is no while we're conscious of it. And certainly the health and well-being of our clients is a priority for us. If you use coid as a data point actually, uh we were able to navigate through that. And we're pleased with uh, the how our clients fared and our ability to continue to support them.

Rob Berkley: Thank you for the question. Have a good evening.

So again, thank you for dialing in and we look forward to speaking with you in about 90 days Bye bye.

Okay, no, thank you. That's very helpful. Thank you very much.

Operator: Your final question comes from the line of Wes Carmichael with Autonomous Research. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Thank you for the question. Have a good evening.

This concludes today's call. Thank you for attending you may now disconnect.

Rob Berkley: Good evening, Wes. Wes, are you there?

Your final question comes from the line of West Carmichael with Autonomous Research. Your line is now open; please go ahead.

Good evening, Wes.

Wes, are you there?

Operator: Wes, a reminder to kindly unmute yourself.

Rob Berkley: I'm sorry.

William Berkley: Yes, we can hear you. Thank you. Great. Just one question. Coming back, Rob, to your comments around property and property catastrophe reinsurance. You mentioned the rotting of the apple or at least impending rotting of the apple. I just wanted to get your view because it seems like there's a lot of rhetoric that property is still rate adequate. Do you think we're really there where things could start to turn at 1/1, or is that going to take more time?

Wes, a reminder to kindly unmute yourself.

Rob Berkley: I think it depends on what the feeding frenzy is like at 1/1. Everyone needs to assess how much margin they think is in the business. Obviously, rates went up dramatically. Attachment points shifted significantly, so on and so forth. While, you know, whatever, nine months ago, we saw a softening, and I think the expectation is given the performance, it's likely there'll be further softening at 1/1 for this coming year. You know, we'll have to see how aggressive the market is. We have a view as to how much margin is in the business and where and at what point we shift our posture from an offensive one to a defensive one. That's just the reality of a cyclical business.

Yep, we can hear you. Thank you. Okay. Um, great. So so just 1 question, but just coming back, Rob to your comments around property property, cat reinsurance, you you mentioned the rotting of the apple or at least impending rotting of the Apple. I just wanted to get, you know, your view curious to your view because it seems like there's a lot of rhetoric that property is still rated adequate but do you think you know, we're really there where things could start to turn at 1 1 um or is that going to take more time?

I think it depends on what The Feeding Frenzy is. Like at 1 1, you know, everyone needs to assess how much margin they think is in the business. Obviously rates went up dramatically attachment points, shifted, uh significantly. Um so on and so forth and while uh, you know, whatever 9 months ago we saw a a softening and I think the expectation is given the performance. It's likely they'll be further softening at, uh, 1 1, 1 for this coming year. Um, you know, we we'll we'll have to see how aggressive the market is.

um, you know

I, I

We have a view as to how much margin is in the business and where, and at what point we shift our posture from an offensive one to a defensive one.

But, you know, that's, um, that's just the reality of a cyclical business.

William Berkley: Got it. Thank you.

Rob Berkley: Thank you for the question.

Thank you.

Operator: The final question.

Rob Berkley: All right, Nicole, was there anyone else, or have we covered it?

Thank you for the question.

Operator: We've covered it. There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back to Mr. Rob Berkley for closing remarks.

Rob Berkley: Okay. Nicole, thank you very much for your assistance in hosting. Thank you all to the participants for your interest in the organization. As hopefully is quite evident, we had a very strong quarter, but equally, if not more importantly, the table is set for a good balance of the year and in all likelihood, a very strong 2026. Again, thank you for dialing in, and we look forward to speaking with you in about 90 days. Bye-bye.

The call, was there anyone else, or have we covered it? We've covered it. There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back to Mr. Raab Berkley for closing remarks.

Okay, uh, Nicole. Thank you very much for your assistance and hosting. Uh, thank you all to the participants for your interest in the organization. As hopefully it's quite evident, we had a very strong quarter, but equally, if not more importantly, the table is set for a good balance of the year and, in all likelihood, a very strong 2026.

So again, thank you for dialing in, and we look forward to speaking with you in about 90 days.

Operator: This concludes today's call. Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect.

Bye, bye.

This concludes today's call. Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect.