Q3 2025 PENN Entertainment Inc Earnings Call

Speaker #4: To all sites on hold . We appreciate your patience . And please continue to stand by . Please stand by . Your program is about to begin .

Speaker #4: Greetings and welcome to the Penn Entertainment Third quarter 2020 Earnings Call . I would now like to turn the conference over to Joseph Jaffoni Investor Relations .

Speaker #4: Please go ahead .

Speaker #5: Thank you . Reza . Good morning and thank you for joining Penn Entertainment's 2020 third quarter conference call . We'll get to management's presentation and comments momentarily , as well as your questions and answers during the Q&A session .

Speaker #5: We ask that everyone please limit themselves to one question and one follow up . Now , I'll review the safe Harbor disclosure . Please note that today's discussion contains forward looking statements .

Speaker #5: Forward looking statements involve risks , and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially . For more information , please see our press release .

Speaker #5: For details on specific risk factors . It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to the company's CEO , Jay Snowden Jay , please go ahead .

Speaker #6: Thanks , Joe , and good morning to everyone . I'm joined here in Wyomissing by Felicia Hendrix Todd George , Aaron LaBerge and other members of our senior management team .

Speaker #6: Earlier this morning , we issued a joint announcement with ESPN regarding our mutual and amicable decision for an early termination of our exclusive online sports betting marketing agreement .

Speaker #6: On December 1st . I want to start off by saying that we are grateful for the exhaustive and collaborative efforts by our friends at ESPN and the Penn Interactive team to compete for a podium position in the highly competitive OSB space .

Speaker #6: Although we made significant progress in improving our product offering and building a cohesive ecosystem with ESPN , we were unable to establish ESPN bet as a scale player .

Speaker #6: It is the right time to realign our interactive focus , prioritizing our digital assets in Canada and our Hollywood . Casino products to further leverage our core retail casino business and overall omnichannel business model .

Speaker #6: This shift emphasizes cross-sell opportunities across our ecosystem and enhances connectivity with our 33 million plus Penn Play customer database . Going forward , as of December 1st , pending final regulatory approvals , our US and Canadian OSB brands will be the score bet , which , as you know , has been delivering strong results for years in Ontario , one of North America's largest and most competitive online markets .

Speaker #6: Aaron LaBerge and his best in class team are currently working on a seamless customer experience that includes the current app being automatically updated to the score bet when you open it on the date of transition .

Speaker #6: All account information balances betting history , pending bets , marketing offers , and promotions transfer over automatically . There will be no new app to download or new registration process to go through our digital realignment will free up resources to strategically invest in the North American markets and customer cohorts .

Speaker #6: With the strongest return potential , which we expect will drive enhanced unit economics and profitability . We will also continue to build our digital database in states with a Penn Retail property , in order to leverage cross-sell opportunities and prepare for the potential legalization of casino in those markets down the road .

Speaker #6: Lastly , the transition to the score bet will present an opportunity to optimize our digital business and operate more efficiently , including replacing fixed media spend with performance based and regionally targeted marketing that complement our retail and casino footprint .

Speaker #6: Digital engagement with current and potential new customers is essential to our company's long term success . 64% of our total company player database growth since 2019 has come from our digital channels .

Speaker #6: This has allowed us to attract a much younger customer demographic and to create significant and unique cross-sell opportunities and experiences for them . Our data shows that customers who play with us across multiple channels are significantly more valuable than single channel customers and have much higher retention , which is critical as the industry continues to evolve rapidly .

Speaker #6: Our North America casino business achieved its highest quarterly gaming revenue to date and improvement of nearly 40% year over year , driven by record cross-sell from OSB of 62% and strong growth from our standalone Hollywood and the Score .

Speaker #6: Bet casino apps in the third quarter . Going forward , OSB will remain a strong top of funnel customer acquisition driver for Hollywood Casino , which will continue to be embedded into our OSB offering in states where it is legal and Hollywood Casino will also continue to operate as a standalone app .

Speaker #6: As highlighted on slide eight of our investor presentation , the introduction of our standalone app , along with improved cross-sell from online sports betting , has led to a 79% increase in Casino use during the third quarter .

Speaker #6: It is worth noting that as encouraging as our casino results were in Q3 , we set new all time monthly records for Emma's , Jaeger and Nr again in October .

Speaker #6: The momentum is continuing to build in this exciting growth channel . As you'll see on slide 11 . Over the last year , we have significantly improved the velocity of our product innovation in order to drive results in key areas of our interactive business .

Speaker #6: With a particular focus and significant year over year improvement in the area of customer retention . Let me wrap up our digital update by sharing that interactive , our interactive financial goals for 2026 of being break even or better , have not changed .

Speaker #6: We will . We will have complete control over our digital cost structure and marketing budget for 2026 , which will primarily focus on the highest margin markets and customer cohorts .

Speaker #6: We will provide a more detailed earnings guide on our Q4 earnings call in February . Shifting to our core regional casino business , as you see on slide 12 , our talented teams across the country executed very well and demand was stable across gaming and non-gaming amenities during the quarter , particularly at our properties not impacted by new supply and increased competitor promotional activity in those same markets .

Speaker #6: We saw particularly strong results in our West segment at our properties across Ohio , as well as in Saint Louis and Illinois . Similar to Q2 , we also saw increases in theoretical revenue across all of our rated worth segments of our retail database , along with overall growth in both total visitation and spend per visit in the aggregate across the portfolio .

Speaker #6: The fourth quarter is off to a solid start , and we are encouraged by early trends at our New Hollywood Casino in Joliet , which is driving both impressive volumes and database growth through its best in market offering .

Speaker #6: Consistent with our long track record of delivering solid returns on our regional gaming investments across the country . We are also pleased to share that revenue from Joliet so far has been almost entirely incremental to our Hollywood Aurora property .

Speaker #6: We've seen a 42% increase in our active database at Joliet since opening , and more than 50% of our growth of that growth , excuse me , was from previously inactive customers showing the benefits of the much improved product and location .

Speaker #6: And our new offering has also been highly efficient at activating digitally native customers in Illinois . Meanwhile , our other previously disclosed development projects remain on track in Henderson , Nevada .

Speaker #6: The second hotel tower at M resort is scheduled to open on December 1st . Our Hollywood Columbus hotel tower and New Hollywood Aurora casino relocation are scheduled to open in late Q2 of 2020 .

Speaker #6: Six , subject to final regulatory approvals and the relocation of Hollywood Council Bluffs is anticipated to open in late 2017 or early 28 , and with that , I'll now turn it over to Felicia .

Speaker #7: Thanks , Jay . As highlighted on slide four in the Investor presentation under the terms of our early termination agreement , cash payments to ESPN will cease at the end of the fourth quarter of 2025 , starting in 2026 , we will no longer have any marketing obligations with ESPN pursuant to the termination agreement , a total of $38.1 million will be paid to ESPN in the fourth quarter of 25 for the marketing services .

Speaker #7: We will incur through December 1st . From December 1st to December 31st , we will pay a total of $5 million to ESPN for traditional media to support the score , bet and or Hollywood .

Speaker #7: Casino offerings . Regarding the warrants , all unvested warrants and performance warrants will be forfeited by ESPN . ESPN will retain roughly 8 million of vested warrants , with a weighted strike price of approximately $29 .

Speaker #7: As a reminder , these warrants are subject to net settlement in stock or cash at our option at an assumed exercise price of $29 .

Speaker #7: The vested warrants would represent potential dilution of roughly 320,000 shares , which , when compared to our 138 million shares outstanding , is 0.2% dilution .

Speaker #7: So really , no material dilutive impact . From the example , I just provided due to the net settlement . The non-cash expense related to the vested warrants in the fourth quarter will be roughly $14 million .

Speaker #7: Our retail segment generated revenues of $1.4 billion . Adjusted EBITDA of $465.8 million , and segment adjusted EBITDA margins of 32.8% . Earlier , Jay touched on our stable core demand in our retail segment , particularly at our properties , not impacted by new supply and increased competitor promotional activity .

Speaker #7: We have a lot to look forward to in the fourth quarter for our retail segment. The quarter is off to a nice start through the first weekend of November.

Speaker #7: Hollywood Casino , Joliet trends are encouraging and we are also excited about the December 1st opening of the second hotel tower at M resort for our retail segment , we expect fourth quarter 25 revenues to range from 1.41 billion to $1.43 billion , and adjusted EBITDA to range from 455 million to $475 million .

Speaker #7: Our interactive segment generated revenues of 297.7 million , including a tax gross up of $139.5 million and adjusted EBITDA loss of $76.6 million .

Speaker #7: Gaming revenues and adjusted EBITDA in the quarter came in below expectations due to customer friendly hold across our digital operations and lower than anticipated OSB volumes .

Speaker #7: Given our brand transition and our targeted retention campaign, our fourth quarter 2025 interactive segment adjusted EBITDA results will look different than the guidance we provided earlier this year.

Speaker #7: We will incur a loss in the fourth quarter , but to provide guidance with a high degree of precision today is challenging given the unknowns around retention following the rebranding on December 1st .

Speaker #7: In addition to well-known customer friendly sports outcomes , in October , the quarter will also be impacted by a number of one time expenses that will not recur in 2026 .

Speaker #7: As we exit the relationship , make changes to our current cost structure and focus on rebranding and retention efforts . Based on what we know today , we expect the fourth quarter loss to be smaller than that of the third quarter .

Speaker #7: Importantly , our cash payments and non-cash warrant expense to ESPN will cease at the end of the fourth quarter this year , which provides us with significantly more marketing and financial flexibility and a clean runway as we head into 2026 .

Speaker #7: Corporate expense of $34 million included $3.9 million of legal and advisory costs related to activist activity in connection with our 2025 annual meeting of shareholders .

Speaker #7: We continue to expect other segment adjusted EBITDA , which includes corporate expense , to be -$121 million for the year before any further legal and advisory costs .

Speaker #7: The table on page ten of our earnings release summarizes our cash expenditures in the quarter , including cash payments to our REIT landlords , cash taxes , cash interest on traditional debt and total CapEx .

Speaker #7: Of our total 172.7 million CapEx in the quarter , $122 million was project CapEx , primarily related to our four development projects . We ended the third quarter of 25 with total liquidity of $1.1 billion , inclusive of $660 million in cash and cash equivalents .

Speaker #7: In the third quarter . We repurchased 154.1 million of shares at an average price of $19.34 per share since September 30th . We have repurchased an incremental $85 million of shares at an average price of $17.44 per share , which takes us to a total of $354 million of shares repurchased as of November 5th , at an average share price of $17.64 per share in connection with our previously stated goal to repurchase at least $350 million of shares this year .

Speaker #7: Since the beginning of 2022 , we have repurchased $1.1 billion of shares , or 25% of our shares outstanding . We have $395 million remaining under our current share repurchase authorization , which expires at the end of this year .

Speaker #7: To that end , this morning we announced that our board of directors has authorized a new three year , $750 million share repurchase authorization , which commences on January 1st , 2026 .

Speaker #7: As we have demonstrated over the past several years , we consider share repurchases a major component of our capital allocation strategy , which also includes Delevering and investing in growth capital .

Speaker #7: Looking forward , we plan to continue to be opportunistic with our share repurchase activity . We expect to continue to deliver , especially as the large losses in interactive are behind us and we continue to evaluate our pipeline of future growth projects .

Speaker #7: Transitioning to our retail growth projects on November 3rd , we received $150 million in funding from Glpi at a 7.79% cap rate . In connection with the $206 million second hotel tower .

Speaker #7: Construction at the M Resort in Las Vegas . This follows the $130 million in funding from Glpi we received in early August , related to the $185 million Joliet project , and for the $360 million Aurora project that opens in late Q2 in late two Q 2026 .

Speaker #7: We have already committed to take $225 million of funding from Glpi at a cap rate of 7.75% . We will draw from Glpi close to the opening of Aurora , and we have not yet announced our funding plans for the $100 million hotel tower at Columbus .

Speaker #7: We expect total cash payments under our triple net leases to be $246 million for the fourth quarter , reflecting a full 2% escalator on the amended and restated Penn Master lease and a 1.5% fixed escalator on the 2023 master lease .

Speaker #7: Both effective November 1st. As we head into the final months of the year, we are updating our 2025 CapEx forecast to reflect the shift of some project costs into next year.

Speaker #7: We now expect project CapEx of $430 million , which compares to prior guidance of $490 million . Our total 2025 CapEx is now $685 million .

Speaker #7: Compared to our prior guidance of $730 million , which reflects this shift slightly offset by a pull forward of some maintenance CapEx into 2025 .

Speaker #7: From 26 for 2025 . Net cash interest expense . We project $160 million for cash taxes . We do not expect to be a cash taxpayer in 2025 , and our basic share count at the end of the third quarter was 138 million shares .

Speaker #7: After the June 20th , June 20th repurchase of the convertible notes , we now have 4.5 million potential dilutive shares from the remaining convertible notes stub and about 1 million dilutive shares from Cissus and stock options .

Speaker #7: I will now turn it back to Jay .

Speaker #6: All right . Thanks , Felicia . I'd like to conclude by reiterating my sincere thank you to ESPN Chairman Jimmy Pitaro and his entire team at ESPN , who have been great partners throughout our time together .

Speaker #6: There is a lot we will take away from this partnership , including 2.9 million new users into our ecosystem , a vastly improved product and feature set , and a best in class digital team led by Aaron LaBerge , who will continue to oversee our interactive businesses and our transition to the score .

Speaker #6: Bet . As I mentioned , we're looking forward to the launch of a unified online sports betting brand across all of North America , which will provide a path to stronger unit economics with a simplified cost structure .

Speaker #6: Our reduced fixed media spend will now provide us much more marketing flexibility to invest more in Canada , as well as in us .

Speaker #6: Casino and OSB markets and customer cohorts with more compelling returns , particularly as we look ahead to new market openings like Alberta , which is anticipated later in 2026 .

Speaker #6: Importantly , we are in full control of our entire business , moving forward . We own our brands , we own our database , we own our tech stack , and we have extremely talented teams .

Speaker #6: This will enable us to better manage and forecast our digital business with greater precision , much like we have done in our regional gaming portfolio for many , many years .

Speaker #6: Pens unique omnichannel strategy going forward is clear , compelling , and growth focused . We have a high quality and extremely well maintained portfolio of land based properties across the country that generate the highest tax adjusted margins in the industry , along with significant free cash flow .

Speaker #6: And we have several growth catalysts over the coming quarters , coupled with less headwinds than we have seen in many years . Our digital business is complementary to the land based segment .

Speaker #6: It is primarily focused on our Canadian operations and casino first markets in the US . We will continue to use OSB across the US to drive top of funnel database acquisition and cross-sell to Penn's retail and digital casino assets , but at a cost structure focused on overall profitability for the digital segment .

Speaker #6: The team and I are focused and excited to execute on this strategy to create compelling value for our shareholders over the short , medium and long term .

Speaker #6: And with that , let's go ahead and open the line for questions .

Speaker #4: At this time, if you would like to ask a question, please press the star and one on your telephone keypad. You may remove yourself from the queue at any time by pressing star and two.

Speaker #4: We'll take our first question from Barry Jonas with Truist Securities . Your line is open .

Speaker #8: Hey guys , with the ESPN exit , can you talk a bit more about any puts and takes for near term , as well as maybe longer term profitability for interactive ?

Speaker #8: And maybe throw in omnichannel contribution to retail in that as well . Thank you .

Speaker #6: Thanks , Barry . Good morning . So yeah let's let's take a step back for a second . As you think about the investments that we've made in our digital business over the last call it five years .

Speaker #6: We really had for four primary goals . As we as we made those investments , we knew that getting into the digital business , particularly sports betting , was going to be a great top of funnel driver for the company .

Speaker #6: And we would be able to feed the database with a younger set of customers that just weren't visiting our retail casinos . The average age of our retail database was getting older , and we knew this was an opportunity for us to really bring the average age of our database down .

Speaker #6: We've been successful in doing that . You see , in one of our slides there , and we've talked about it before , the average age of our active database is younger by seven years from 2019 to where we are now in 2025 .

Speaker #6: So that was goal one . I think we've done a great job with that . We're still working at it . Of course .

Speaker #6: Number two is once you have those younger customers and new customers in your database , you want to be able to cross-sell them to your profitable land based casino businesses .

Speaker #6: And we've shared with you before . We've been , you know , successful in doing that . And again , that's going to continue .

Speaker #6: It's a it's a very important goal for us is the cultivation of those relationships . And to provide great experiences and ultimately provide monetization opportunities for the company with those new customers .

Speaker #6: So check that box . I think we've been we've been effective at doing that again , more work , more work in front of us .

Speaker #6: And I think number three , for us was we wanted to make sure that we were we were preparing for the future and making sure that Penn , as a company , is set for where the industry is headed .

Speaker #6: And I'm sure we'll talk about plenty on this call. There's a lot going on in this industry right now. I feel like we're really under attack from a number of different directions.

Speaker #6: But I think the company today is positioned extremely well to compete , regardless of which direction we end up going as an industry and what we what we want to do and accomplish digitally , what we want to do in accomplish in our retail footprint .

Speaker #6: And of course , it all comes together with the omnichannel strategy that we mentioned earlier . So I would say check the box .

Speaker #6: We're we're we've built this company . We're prepared for the future . Really important goal . And then lastly , of course , we've made these digital investments to make money to deliver a return for our shareholders .

Speaker #6: We have not done that yet . That's the focus in 2026 . And moving forward is to start to deliver profitability for our shareholders , which will only grow over time .

Speaker #6: So I think at a high level , that's the way we've been thinking about it . It's nice to be able to turn the corner and speak to profitability , and we'll have more to speak to on that .

Speaker #6: Specifically for 2026 and beyond . When we get on our call in February with all of you .

Speaker #8: Great . And then just I might ask a follow up on retail , you know , you sort of cited increased competition , promotional activity .

Speaker #8: Curious how that's been impacting your operations beyond initial expectations and maybe how you're responding . Thank you .

Speaker #6: Todd , you want to grab that one ? Sure . Thanks , Joe .

Speaker #5: Listen , it's I think there's been plenty of .

Speaker #9: Discussion around some of our competitors in the space and how they've responded . I think we're seeing kind of the the double double edge here .

Speaker #9: It's it's really about the new competition in key markets . I think . Slide 12 in the earnings deck shows a lot of the way we look at the business and what we're seeing in markets not impacted by new competition .

Speaker #9: Performing really well . And the markets where we have new competition , there's also been a competitive response that has increased promotional reinvestment .

Speaker #9: And what that that usually does . Is it can lead to increased marketing costs . But anytime you have a new competitor coming in , you'll have a little bit of a spike in labor costs .

Speaker #9: You'll see some retention bonuses for some key positions , but you also see salary and wage growth . You know the good news is fairly temporary .

Speaker #9: Some one time expenses and then things normalize over time . But if you look at slide 12 , it shows a good snapshot of the way we performed around the country .

Speaker #6: I would just add to and this speaks to , you know , the job that Todd and our regional heads and our general managers in the company , we have , we have never we've never stopped investing in our properties .

Speaker #6: And we deliver best in market offerings and experiences in almost every one of our markets . So the Todd and I both been at this for too long to even say these days , but these things happen .

Speaker #6: You get , you get promotions . That kind of ramp up and ramp back down . The reality is , in these mature markets , customers may chase a promotion once or twice .

Speaker #6: They end up settling back to where they feel comfortable , where there's a really good value proposition . And we like how we stack up against everybody in the in the regional gaming space .

Speaker #6: In terms of overall asset quality, customer service delivery, and experience, so we'll be fine. This will be a little noise for a short period of time.

Speaker #6: It'll calm down and and on we go .

Speaker #8: Great . Thank you .

Speaker #4: Our next question comes from Brant Montour with Barclays . Your line is .

Speaker #8: Open . Hello .

Speaker #10: Everybody . Thanks for taking my questions . So the first one on digital I know there will be waiting . We're going to wait to hear more about your plans on profitability .

Speaker #10: And I know there's multiple moving pieces of profitability including retention risk on the revenue side . But if you could just focus on the cost side and talk about the fixed cost removal for ESPN , 150 million a year , and you said the word replace that with with with the marketing , you're going to need to support the score .

Speaker #10: You know , is it fair to assume that sort of just looking at those two pieces that marketing score should , should by definition , come in below what you were paying to ESPN .

Speaker #6: Significantly below , I would say , Brant , I mean , as you think about the the marketing dollars , we've been spending with ESPN , most of those dollars will take down to the bottom line .

Speaker #6: And some of those dollars will be redeployed to the markets and the customer cohorts that we talked about , the ones that will deliver us the highest returns , primarily our business in Canada .

Speaker #6: We've been competing really well there with not a lot of marketing spend , and that's going to change . We're going to be able to to spend more money in Canada and continue to grow our our share .

Speaker #6: I think , profitably there and in the I casino hybrid states in the US , those are going to be the primary markets of focus .

Speaker #6: Obviously highest value customers . That's the way that we think about it . So again , we'll have more detail for you , but you should expect to see as we talk about 2026 , we're going to learn a lot in the next two and a half months before we get on a call with you again , sort of post rebrands , we understand what retention looks like .

Speaker #6: I think we have a very good plan around retention . We've been working on this plan for a couple of months now , and so we're going to know a lot more in February , and we're going to continue to adjust our cost structure and our marketing spend assumptions based on what we're seeing around retention and revenue projections as we go into 2026 .

Speaker #6: So, in a long-winded way of saying we have full control over all of those variables. And so, stay tuned. We'll have more to share in February.

Speaker #6: But the goal is to stop , you know , to to move away from losses and , and digital and turn that around and really start generating significantly more free cash flow as a company .

Speaker #10: Great . Thank you for that . And then just a quick one on the the retail side , back on the back of Barry's question , you know , I'm assuming the guy down at the EBITDA line at retail was was mostly that competition you cited .

Speaker #10: Could you just maybe bifurcate between competition that you had been seeing in supply , impacted markets like the reaction that I think you were talking about from from other competitors in those markets , between that and potentially any increased promotional environment or promotional activity in markets that are not supply impacted .

Speaker #10: And I think I know I think you know , who I'm talking about . If you could just sort of bifurcate those and let us know if the second one has become a bigger headwind as of late .

Speaker #9: Yeah . Hey , Brent , this is Todd . You know , the reality is the the group you're talking about also happens to be in every market where new competition has come in .

Speaker #9: So that that's kind of that double impact that we saw in in the other markets for the most part , those are healthy markets where we have really good properties , where we're typically market leader or vying for number one consistently .

Speaker #9: So a little bit less there . And obviously there you don't have the the labor impact . So it really is kind of confined to that marketing promotional environment , which as Jay mentioned , we we take a bit of a different approach where reinvesting in our properties , creating that experience , people will gravitate back towards that experience versus what what offers in my hand what coupon is in my hand .

Speaker #10: Okay . Thanks everybody .

Speaker #4: Our next question comes from Joe Stoff with Susquehanna . Your line is open .

Speaker #11: Thank you . Good morning . I wanted to ask just a couple questions to refamiliarize myself with the score bit and wondering , I guess you know , maybe the updated share that that you have in Ontario , I assume .

Speaker #11: Obviously you'll launch in Alberta and wondering , you know , for the US customer database within the score , you know , is there a concentration of adjacent markets in and around Ontario , or is it like a wider distribution ?

Speaker #11: Just just wondering how to think about that .

Speaker #6: Yeah . Happy to Joe and Aaron . Anything I missed . Feel free to jump in here . Here's here's a way to think about the score Media app .

Speaker #6: And our offering is that we have roughly 4 million monthly active users across North America . That's been wildly consistent , even though we haven't paid as much attention to that business as we should be .

Speaker #6: And will be going forward . But it stayed remarkably consistent , really , since the time of acquisition of the score of that 4 million , roughly two thirds of those are in the US , and one third of those are in Canada .

Speaker #6: The popularity of the score and the score , media and the score brands is really spread across Canada . You don't see it as just overly concentrated Ontario , all provinces across Canada , there's about the same level of popularity and market share from a digital sports media perspective , which is why we are very encouraged about the opportunity in Alberta .

Speaker #6: As you think about the US and the two thirds of that 4 million are call it 2.6 million monthly active users , roughly two thirds of those users are in states currently that are online sports betting legal states .

Speaker #6: And so having that brand connection we think will be helpful . It has been in Canada from , you know , the score media to the score bet from a sports betting perspective .

Speaker #6: We'll be able to do essentially the same . We'll be able to deploy the same playbook here in the US from a sports betting perspective , that has been effective for us .

Speaker #6: There . We'll see what that gets us . But we do think that that could be helpful . And look , Aaron and team have done a great job improving the product and the experience .

Speaker #6: Our feature set , the UI , UX . And if you look at our retention results this year , at the first two months of football season versus last year , significant improvement .

Speaker #6: So we're going to be laser focused on retention of existing users . And then also getting some of these score media users that maybe currently aren't using ESPN bet to use the score bet in the US as we move forward .

Speaker #12: That's great . Got it .

Speaker #11: Thank you for that . And maybe two quick kind of clarifications , I guess . One . You know , just based on your commentary and based on my understanding historically is you own all the customer data associated with ESPN .

Speaker #11: Bet . And the second clarification clarifying question is I didn't see an expiration on the 8 million warrants that ESPN will own going forward .

Speaker #6: I'll tackle the first one , and we'll get an answer for you on the second one in a moment . So you are correct that the customer data of the 2.9 million users that I referenced earlier , that we've been able to build in our database since the beginning of our relationship with ESPN , bet we own , we own that customer data set .

Speaker #6: So that's exactly correct . And for regulatory reasons , we're the only natural owner of that customer data set , ESPN , because they're not licensed and they're not regulated .

Speaker #6: They can't have access to it . So that's just the way the deal goes . That does you know , I'm not sort of pointing out anything other than the way that it has to work from a regulatory perspective .

Speaker #6: So customer data stays , stays with Penn . And that's that's something that obviously we're going to continue to work on is reactivation .

Speaker #6: And the things that we have this football season , we've been fortunate to see some good results . There that'll that'll continue with regard to the warrant expiration .

Speaker #7: Yeah , Joe , those were part of the ten year deal . So at the end of ten years they expire .

Speaker #11: Gotcha . All right . Thank you .

Speaker #6: Thanks , Joe .

Speaker #4: Our next question comes from Jordan Bender with Citizens Capital Markets . Your line is open .

Speaker #13: Hey , everyone . Thanks for the question . You know , this is kind of the first time that you've run a unified online strategy across both Canada and the US since you started your digital operations here .

Speaker #13: You know , here is as you start to dig into databases and expand digitally that way , does it start to make sense to look at potentially buying retail properties up in Canada to cross-sell and further dig into that , to that customer database ?

Speaker #13: Thank you .

Speaker #6: Yeah , thanks for the question , Jordan . I would say , you know , that's something that's sort of been on our radar before .

Speaker #6: I'd say it would remain on our radar . I wouldn't necessarily think about it as moving up significantly in the list of priorities , but there's not a lot of options there .

Speaker #6: There's sort of two large operators in Canada from a from a retail perspective . And so if opportunities presented themselves at the right time and the right price , we would definitely take a hard look at that .

Speaker #6: And to your point , there would very there would there would be synergies from an omnichannel perspective similar to what we've seen in the US .

Speaker #6: But I would say it's not , you know , really ratcheting up on the priority list , but we would be opportunistic if the if , if the opportunity presented itself .

Speaker #6: .

Speaker #13: Appreciate it . Thank you . Felicia . Just kind of following up on on your comments on allocation and the balance sheet . You've loosely kind of guided us or talked us to leverage targets or kind of how you want to run the business over the years .

Speaker #13: I mean , as we move kind of into the score and cleaning up some of the online losses , is there kind of a level or a leverage target that you would roughly want to run the business ?

Speaker #13: Kind of as we look out in the 26 , 27 , 28 .

Speaker #7: Yeah . Thank you for that . Yeah , I would say over the longer term , our optimal lease adjusted leverage level is , is probably somewhat below five times .

Speaker #7: So you know , we're going to remain focused on on getting to that level over the next several years . But just keep in mind that that deleveraging trajectory , which we are obviously very focused on , just may not be perfectly linear because we're to continue , we're going to continue to be nimble , you know , as opportunities present themselves .

Speaker #7: Right . We'll continue to be opportunistic . Buying back stock . And we're going to continue to invest in our own growth opportunities as we look at our pipeline .

Speaker #7: Right . So again , focused on delivering getting below five times . But that that may not be perfectly linear .

Speaker #6: Yeah , I would just add that we do have and we're obviously encouraged . It's early , but we're encouraged by the results of our Joliet water to Land project .

Speaker #6: And we've announced a few others that you're all aware of , and we've got others we're looking at right now within the company's portfolio that we think can also deliver really nice returns .

Speaker #6: So it's about balancing. Felicia said it very well. It's about balancing all three of those. They're all three priorities, and we think we can effectively balance them as we move forward.

Speaker #13: Thank you very much .

Speaker #4: Our next question comes from John Decree with CBRE . Your line is open .

Speaker #14: Hey . Good morning everyone . Thanks for taking my question . I we talked a little bit about the kind of users acquired with ESPN .

Speaker #14: Just wondering if you have any initial thoughts . And I realize this might be a tough question about customer retention in the digital channel .

Speaker #14: When you rebrand to the score , you obviously have some experience with that . When when Barstool went to ESPN bet . So are there any kind of strategies or expectations you have about kind retaining those customers and getting them to kind of stay with the score when the rebrand occurs ?

Speaker #6: Yeah , it's a great question . I would say that it's kind of apples and oranges when you think about what we did at the time of of that , of that brand change versus where we are now , we we had put our we put our customers through a lot of hoops to jump and we had a new technology stack .

Speaker #6: We were down for several days . We asked them to come back in and reregister and redeposit . There was a lot going on that created noise .

Speaker #6: In addition to the the brand change . And I think we feel like we're well positioned here . We deliver what is one of the best online sports betting and online casino experiences , not just as we see it , but as , you know , independent .

Speaker #6: Third parties that that review and rate these these apps and these experiences , we rate very high both in casino and online sports betting .

Speaker #6: We've been moving up the rankings . Matter of fact , one just came out earlier this week . We moved up a couple more spots .

Speaker #6: So we feel like from what we're seeing on product quality and retention overall , this football season compared to last year , we're in a good spot .

Speaker #6: I don't want to predict , you know , what retention and churn end up looking like over the coming months . But we feel like we're positioned well .

Speaker #6: We deliver a great experience and our users , you know , we know that most of our users were their number one app .

Speaker #6: And so we want to make sure that that stays the case . And we have a full calendar planned out . As you can imagine .

Speaker #6: And we have the ability to target and personalize from a marketing and CRM perspective today that we just didn't have even a year ago.

Speaker #6: And so we've got a full marketing plan , and we're going to be ready to go . And if you know , some don't respond initially , there's going to be bounce back , follow up offers .

Speaker #6: And we feel pretty good about the overall strategy . Aaron , anything you want to add ?

Speaker #12: Yeah , I would just say to underscore what Jay just said , it's the same exact app this time . So you don't have to download a new app .

Speaker #12: You don't have to reregister . As you said , you'll show up . Your icon will change . And once you're in the app , the user experience is exactly the same .

Speaker #12: The logo and the app will change , but it's the same experience . And as Jay said , our retention has been really , really good this year .

Speaker #12: As a result of all the product enhancements we've been making . So we feel really strong and confident that people will still have the same experience .

Speaker #12: We'll communicate clearly that the brand has changed , but nothing else has . So the people that love using the app are still going to have the same level of generosity or interaction with us .

Speaker #12: Personalization , that that exists today . So , you know , we feel pretty good , but obviously we're going to be watching it closely as we rebrand .

Speaker #14: That's that's really helpful . I appreciate that . It's good . Good commentary and maybe a quick one for Felicia . If I missed it , I apologize , but I know you took the financing for M resort from Glpi , I think Aurora , you're expected to do that next year .

Speaker #14: And anything for Columbus at this point? And maybe it's a little too early, but I figured I'd ask anyway.

Speaker #7: Yeah . That's right , it's it's too early . We'll make that decision as we get closer to the opening of Columbus .

Speaker #14: Great . Thanks , Felicia . Thanks all .

Speaker #4: Our next question comes from Dan Pulitzer with J.P. Morgan. Your line is open.

Speaker #15: Hey , good morning everyone . I just wanted to follow up on 2026 . And , Jay , your comments that you know , you'll still be break even or better .

Speaker #15: And that hasn't changed . I guess directionally , you know , we think about your more . You're going to be more operationally efficient ESPN bet and all the associated fees and marketing costs go away .

Speaker #15: But you guys are investing in the score . I mean , directionally have , you know , should the outlook be better today than it was , say , you know , 2 or 3 months ago , or is it really just truly no , no difference at this point ?

Speaker #6: I think the , the target and goal for 26 , we feel , you know , as we sit here today and and until we better understand what retention looks like , post rebrand , it stays .

Speaker #6: It stays the same as it was . Earlier this year . Obviously going into next year , it would have been more challenging for us to be break even or better if we weren't able to exit early because the fees weren't changing .

Speaker #6: But the market share wasn't moving as fast as we needed it to . And as to the levels of what we had forecasted as to all of you on our last earnings call for football season .

Speaker #6: So this sort of gives us that that clean runway as we clear runway , as we move into 2026 , and we feel like we've got a real good handle on all of the puts and takes , which is , you know , for the team and I it feels very good .

Speaker #6: It's no different than how we feel about our regional gaming business . I think we've been , you know , one of the best in the industry of of forecasting what's going to happen with a level of precision that is , you know , as good as anyone .

Speaker #6: And we want to get there on all aspects of our business in 2026 will be a step in that direction for digital as well .

Speaker #15: Got it . And then just to follow up , I don't know , to the extent that you could maybe just comment or opine , you know , the kind of background how you got to this point .

Speaker #15: Was there a breaking point ? Did prediction markets enter into your decision process at all ? Just kind of any , any , any background you can discuss .

Speaker #15: And obviously , you know , given you have a competitor that that now kind of stepped into that deal .

Speaker #6: Yeah , I would say the lines of communication certainly between Jimmy and I and our teams have been positive . It's been open and it continued to be since our last earnings call .

Speaker #6: But we also know what that threshold level was of market share to be at by the third anniversary . And we could see through the first couple of months of football season that we're making a lot of improvements in a number of areas that we've shared with you .

Speaker #6: We weren't on a path , a trajectory to get to that level of market share . And so , you know , you know where it's headed and why why sort of string this along .

Speaker #6: Let's let's get together and figure out the best path forward for both companies . I you know , I've been talking about this the last several quarters .

Speaker #6: There is that three year out . And both companies are going to have to do what's in their best interests . And I think that we've figured out a path forward that was in both companies best interests and was done in a way that , you know , was I think , professional and that's the way the relationship was all the way through .

Speaker #6: The first two years . And change and think very highly of Jimmy and the entire team at ESPN and wish them nothing but the best .

Speaker #6: We'll still be very likely in advertising partner of theirs . There's no hard feelings . We we had aspirations . We had goals to be a podium player didn't work out .

Speaker #6: And you know , we're we're moving on from that . And they are too . And that's I think that's perfectly fine .

Speaker #15: Got it . Thanks so much .

Speaker #4: Our next question comes from Sean Kelly with Bank of America . Your line is open .

Speaker #16: Hey good morning everybody . Thanks for taking my question , Jay . I think there are two , two strategic questions . I have .

Speaker #16: First , you know , I think as we all think about the interactive business , historically , there's kind of been actually 3 or 4 parts .

Speaker #16: Right. And I know an integrated strategy moving forward under the Score Bet moniker makes a lot of sense. But we kind of think about Canada and some success up there.

Speaker #16: We think about market access as sort of a fear profit pool for for this business . And then we think about iGaming . The Hollywood casino brand , and probably contribution profit positive .

Speaker #16: And then obviously the OSB investments . So like my question is very high level as you thought about those different pieces , is there more to come here on the strategic side or as you've kind of done , the full rework here is are all those different pieces kind of set ?

Speaker #16: And this is the go to market for the next year or 18 months for pen . And you as a management team , or are there any other of those pieces that are that are in flux , or you might be looking at as you just kind of think about the right fit for what Penn's business is moving forward ?

Speaker #6: Yeah . Look , I think strategically , what we've laid out today , we feel we feel like , you know , that we can execute against this .

Speaker #6: And again , what's the most important factor here is we have full control over all the , you know , the puts and takes and , you know , we're we're I think we're a company that that delivers when we have full control over what's in front of us .

Speaker #6: And that will be the case on the digital side . Moving forward . The four parts of the digital business you laid out , you're right about that .

Speaker #6: I would say , however , that , you know , Canada sort of been more of a standalone because you have one brand for both sports and casino up there .

Speaker #6: And what we're talking about today in this brand change doesn't affect our Canadian operations at all . We've got nice momentum there . We had our all time best Casino month last month in Canada .

Speaker #6: So we've got some nice momentum there and we're going to have I believe we can build on that with more of a focus and more resources and marketing dollars headed up north of the border and market access .

Speaker #6: I think , you know , we all that that's a nice revenue and EBITDA stream . It's not going to be as high as it is today forever , right ?

Speaker #6: These deals will eventually expire over time . And so we want to make sure that , you know , we're not just relying on that because it's not there forever .

Speaker #6: And we're taking some of that money and we're investing and building this company up for the future . As I as I mentioned earlier , and we've done that , I think as it relates to us , casino and OSB , there's so interconnected .

Speaker #6: You can't really I don't think you can look at it as its own opportunity because think about our casino business in the US .

Speaker #6: Most of it today still comes from within the integrated sports betting app . So you can't you know , you'd have a hard time extracting all of those players onto your standalone Hollywood casino if they've been playing slot machines and playing blackjack through your sports betting app .

Speaker #6: And so those two really are connected together . All of this is , you know , has created a very large digital database for us that we do cross-sell into our land based properties .

Speaker #6: And , you know , three quarters of our land based properties are in states where OSB is legal and almost 40% of those digital native customers live within 50 miles of our properties .

Speaker #6: And you visit our properties today, and you see it. You feel it. There's a younger customer there in the sports books, playing tables.

Speaker #6: They're in our restaurants and they're playing slot machines , which is which is very encouraging . So I understand the way you're thinking about that .

Speaker #6: I would say strategically for us , it all , it all pulls together and it really sets the company up the way we need to be set up for where the industry is headed .

Speaker #6: Prediction markets , I think , is an interesting topic . I actually my view on prediction markets is that , you know , this is a major threat to the industry .

Speaker #6: You know , take taking a step back . We're of course , you know , give you the can expression . Everyone else does .

Speaker #6: We're monitoring the situation . I think importantly we're going to very clearly take our direction from our state regulators . We always have .

Speaker #6: We always will. That doesn't change. With all of that said, I do think as an industry that we've got to play some offense here.

Speaker #6: And when I say industry , I think it's operators . It's working with our regulators , working with our state legislators , legislators and lawmakers because the the posture that we're taking at this point is very defensive .

Speaker #6: It's going to take a long time to play out . And it doesn't feel at the moment like a winning hand . And prediction markets are , you know , they're live across the country .

Speaker #6: And I think that , you know , as an industry , we feel like we can outperform those guys . If we're in the same market as they are with the same product .

Speaker #6: I.e., sports betting. We think our sports betting product is much better than prediction markets, and I think that's proving out.

Speaker #6: But where they are doing where they are building a real business is in states where it's not legal . It's legal , sort of at the , you know , the commodities federal level and but it's but it's not at the state level .

Speaker #6: And so how does that play out in the courts ? It's going to take years . And so I just don't I don't think that the , you know , the the winning hand for us is going to be to , you know , try to fight this out through the courts .

Speaker #6: It's likely to be appealed over and over again . Take a long time and look who loses out here . Customers do . There's no responsible gaming protections .

Speaker #6: No , your customer , all of the protections and regulations that we deal with and have been for decades , those don't exist at the at the prediction market level .

Speaker #6: So again , I think there's a lot more to do here . I think as an industry , we need to come together and figure out how to play offense .

Speaker #6: So I would say stay tuned . I don't think us all sitting around and monitoring what's happening is , is going to be it's not it's not going to be a viable strategy .

Speaker #16: You kind of stole my second question . I'm not even sure I actually asked on prediction markets , but but I that was really definitely where I was going .

Speaker #16: So just the one very short follow up because I appreciate the

Speaker #16: depth of that answer customer would just be , you know , have you looked at all into the possibilities of casino mechanics as it relates to either prediction markets or prediction market overlays ?

Speaker #16: You know , there was something that came up at least on the sports betting side , a mechanic that that hard rock just kind of went live with in Florida .

Speaker #16: And I mean , how far down the rabbit hole are you going ? Because , I mean , realistically , it feels like some of these things are actually possible .

Speaker #16: I know it seems crazy , but they are kind of possible . So have you kind of thought about that ? You know , I know it's really far off today , but the pace of innovation , I think , as you alluded to , is actually pretty incredible .

Speaker #6: I actually don't think it's that far off . Sean , at all . And you mentioned what hard Rock's doing in Florida . So now you're talking about , you know , passed motor races and sports betting , but it's spinning a slot machine .

Speaker #6: Historical horse racing has been done in the land based businesses . Let's I mean , let's be very clear about this . I would be shocked if prediction market operators , as they're raising money at significant valuations and seem to be doubling every few months , aren't talking about this .

Speaker #6: And if you can , if you can move forward with prediction markets and sports gambling , what would stop you from offering prediction markets and contracts on the next spin of a slot machine ?

Speaker #6: The next hand of blackjack, the next spin of the ball at the roulette table. So this is existential. Like this is not like we're going to be talking about this.

Speaker #6: I think in a matter of months , not not years . And I think as an industry , we've got to play offense and figure out how do we stay ahead of this .

Speaker #6: And we've got to come together quickly, though, like we don't, we don't have a lot of time here. And I think there's some natural opportunities and some natural potential solutions here.

Speaker #6: So to your question , should we be looking at a prediction model launch along those lines ? Maybe I think there's other paths that could be a lot more effective .

Speaker #6: That would more level the playing field and allow us to do what we do best . And offer great products and experiences that would be better than what they can offer .

Speaker #6: But we do need to work with the other constituencies in the space .

Speaker #16: Thank you .

Speaker #4: Our next question comes from Chad Beynon with Macquarie . Your line is open .

Speaker #13: Hi . Good morning .

Speaker #17: Thanks for all the commentary so far with respect to I casino , obviously a lot of lot of moving items announced today and in the past couple of months .

Speaker #17: Jay , what's your appetite to to look at Non-north American markets , given that you have , you know , the tech the staff , the improvement , improvements to to maybe have , you know , kind of a leg up against some of the other companies that are in non-north American markets and , and aren't fully integrated .

Speaker #17: It appears that they're having a harder time . Yeah . What's your what's your view on that ? Thank you .

Speaker #6: Yeah , I would say that , you know , let's talk in a few quarters right now . Obviously the focus is all about , you know , retention as we go through the rebrand on December 1st , again pending final regulatory approval , we feel like we've got a we've got a good plan , but we've got a lot in front of us .

Speaker #6: We need to execute and stay , heads down . Laser focused on delivering the best possible result as we head into 26 for our digital business and cross-sell and our retail businesses , our retail openings .

Speaker #6: So . But we also can walk and chew gum . So I would say that if there's an opportunity that presents itself , I think we're feeling like as though we have a world class team , we know we have one of the best products , both in OSB and iGaming in the United States .

Speaker #6: And we think we could compete anywhere . We're just not going to be looking to do that in the near term . But if opportunities presented themselves or we felt like we were at a point where we're ready to go elsewhere , we would strongly consider that it's just not something that you would expect to hear from us .

Speaker #6: You shouldn't expect to hear from us in the shorter term.

Speaker #17: Okay . Thank you . And then lastly , on Juliet , have you seen repeat visitation ? You talked about some of the activation in the early numbers , and I know it is pretty early overall , but , you know , do you think some of the the added customers could begin to come at the property , maybe at the same rate or pace as your portfolio or kind of what you would expect ?

Speaker #17: Thank you .

Speaker #9: Hey , Chad , this is Todd . Yeah . Listen , there's I think there's so many good takeaways right now . And again at or above our expectations in all the major kvis .

Speaker #9: But the frequency that that we're seeing there is in line or better than some of our best performing properties and significantly better than the prior .

Speaker #9: Juliet property . But I'd also point to just in a there's a slide in there and it shows , you know , the 42% growth in in the database , which is a combination of reactivation as well as new members .

Speaker #9: And again , you're you're catering to you . You start looking at total spend at the property . So greatly improved offerings around the food and beverage area .

Speaker #9: So you've got people coming in now for more of that entertainment experience that we talked about before . So they're they're spending time on a slot machine or a table game or electronic table game and then making their way to food and beverage , and then hopefully back to the gaming floor .

Speaker #9: So and then from a frequency standpoint , when you start evaluating , you know , how properties perform , you look at guest count , you look at frequency , you look at daily spend .

Speaker #9: All of those are going in a very good direction .

Speaker #6: If we could take one more question, please.

Speaker #4: Absolutely . Our final question will come from Jeff Stantial with Stiefel . Your line is open .

Speaker #10: Hey , good morning everyone . Thanks for .

Speaker #5: Squeezing us in. Maybe starting off.

Speaker #13: On the .

Speaker #18: Land based business margins down about 90 year on year in the quarter . J or Todd , whoever wants to take this , can you just give us a sense for how margins trended for that cohort of assets that were not impacted by new supply ?

Speaker #18: And then if you take that even one step further , can you can you unpack some of the key drivers to that performance , meaning , was there more geographic mix shift in taxes ?

Speaker #18: Again , how was wage inflation trended ? Are there other pockets of inflation right now ? Just any color there would be great .

Speaker #18: Thanks .

Speaker #9: Yeah , thanks . This is Todd . I think it's again directionally , you know , focused on that . Slide 12 . And I'll show you , you know , the impact on both revenue and and flow through .

Speaker #9: But then you start looking at some of the expense items . And I mentioned earlier with both marketing as well as as labor .

Speaker #9: Also keep in mind , you know , this , this will come up periodically , but you've got your controllable . And then there's the payroll related .

Speaker #9: So every now and then you do see a little bit of an uptick in payroll related . We did see some of that , especially in the South segment .

Speaker #9: You also you know , we we've got some nice properties that have high end play . So at times you're going to take a small hit to bad debt expense .

Speaker #9: So there are those types of things that find their way in and out of an income statement. This quarter, we happen to have a few more going that way.

Speaker #9: But I think overall , looking at October trends , really nice year over year , you're starting to see the state numbers come out and you know , you'll you'll see that trend continue again , not just us healthy for the entire industry .

Speaker #9: But you know, September ended, and October took right back off. Obviously, this was helped by the calendar with five Fridays. But we're really happy with the way Q4 started out.

Speaker #9: Felicia touched on the first weekend that continued into the month of November as well .

Speaker #18: That's great . Thanks for that color . And then switching gears back over to the interactive side of things , you talked , you know , throughout the call on reallocation of of resources over casino and the Canadian business and more of that higher value player cohort .

Speaker #18: As we just think about the benefits of of sort of more financial and operational resources being freed up , I'm curious what sort of opportunities you see more on the product development side .

Speaker #18: If this can increase your velocity of new games coming out , maybe optimization of the CRM and the Bonusing models , anything like that , and then back on the marketing side of things , should we just think about this as more pushing heavier into UA reinvestment for that higher LTV ?

Speaker #18: Casino lead player ? And then how should we just think about maybe other marketing channels that you might now push on , whether that's more top of funnel spend outside of ESPN driving awareness for the score brand in the US , or maybe more allocated resources further down into the funnel to higher channels .

Speaker #18: Just any thoughts ? There would be great thanks .

Speaker #12: Hi , this is Aaron . So a few things . One on the marketing side , if you think about ESPN , Bet and the marketing spend that we had there , it was a national brand and a national platform , and we spent a lot of time trying to make that work at the same time we did .

Speaker #12: We do have a set of marketing spend that we manage ourselves around performance marketing and acquisition . That is very effective for us from a perspective .

Speaker #12: And so if you look at our growth in casino , largely part of that is coming not only from our retail database , but also from our targeted marketing .

Speaker #12: And so now all the marketing spend that we drop to our operating model from the ESPN deal is now going to be able to be applied in a very precise fashion , targeting states that are high casino and OSB only .

Speaker #12: Casino OSB and retail Ontario , Alberta is coming , so we feel like we have a lot more control and precision from a marketing perspective .

Speaker #12: And it's been working already , so we're not guessing about how effective this will be . We now have more money to actually drive the business from a product perspective .

Speaker #12: If you look at the the difference between ESPN , bet from a year ago to today , it's night and day . And by the way , I just came out with a report ESPN bet was most improved .

Speaker #12: Our retention is better than it's ever been . The product is very competitive . So those same people are actually our team that builds our casino product as well .

Speaker #12: So if you think about the level of innovation , the velocity of change to the app , a lot of that's going to apply to our casino product as well , because obviously in a casino , first strategy , the score is going to be a big component of that .

Speaker #12: And the score bet . But you know , a lot of our development time is going to be spent on making sure that we have the best casino product in market .

Speaker #12: And the same people that have been building that for ESPN , Bet , and focusing all of our resources to try to make that work , given our expectations , there are now going to be working on Hollywood as well .

Speaker #12: So we're really excited about the product . We're really excited about the marketing flexibility . I mean , as Jay said , between the Score media , the score bet and Hollywood Casino , these are brands that we own and we control everything about how those operate .

Speaker #12: So we're pretty optimistic about moving forward .

Speaker #18: That's great. Thanks for that color, Aaron. Yeah.

Speaker #6: All right . Thank you everybody for dialing in . We look forward to speaking with all of you again in February on our Q4 call .

Speaker #6: Have a great day .

Speaker #4: This concludes today's program . Thank you for your participation . And you may disconnect at any time .