Q3 2025 Royalty Pharma plc Earnings Call

Speaker #2: Ladies and gentlemen , thank you for standing by . Welcome to Royalty Pharma . Third quarter earnings conference call . I would like now to turn the conference over to George Grofik senior Vice President , Head of Investor Relations and Communications .

Speaker #2: Please go ahead , sir .

Speaker #3: Good morning and good afternoon to everyone on the call . Thank you for joining us to review Royalty Pharma's third quarter 2020 results .

Speaker #3: You can find the press release with our earnings results and slides to this call on the investors page of our website at Royalty Pharma plc .

Speaker #3: On slide two , I'd like to remind you that information presented in this call contains forward looking statements that involve known and unknown risks , uncertainties and other factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from these statements .

Speaker #3: We refer you to our most recent 10-K on file with the SEC for description of these risks . All forward looking statements are based on information currently available to Royalty Pharma plc , and we assume no obligation to update any such forward looking statements .

Speaker #3: non-GAAP liquidity measures will be used to help you understand our financial results and the reconciliation of these measures to our GAAP financial is provided in the earnings press release available on our website .

Speaker #3: And with that , please advance slide three . Our speakers on the call today are Pablo Legorreta Chief Executive Officer and Chairman of the board , Marshall Urist EVP , Head of Research and Investments Chris White , EVP , Vice Chairman .

Speaker #3: And Terry EVP , Chief Financial Officer . Pablo will discuss the key highlights , after which Marshall will provide a portfolio update . Chris will then discuss our development stage pipeline and Terry will review the financials .

Speaker #3: Following concluding remarks from Pablo , we will hold a Q&A session . And with that , I'd like to turn the call over to Pablo .

Speaker #3: Thank you .

Speaker #4: George , and welcome to everyone on the call . I am delighted to report another successful quarter of execution on our goal to be the Premier capital allocator in life sciences , with consistent compounding growth .

Speaker #4: Slide five summarizes our strong business momentum in the third quarter , starting with the financials we delivered 11% growth in both portfolio receipts .

Speaker #4: Our top line and royalty receipts , which are which are recurring cash flow . The sustained momentum was driven by the strength of our diversified portfolio .

Speaker #4: We're also now starting to report on a quarterly basis , a return on invested capital and return on invested equity . In the third quarter , we maintained strong returns in our business with return on invested capital of 15.7% and return on invested equity of 22.9% for the last 12 months .

Speaker #4: Turning to capital allocation , we deployed capital of 1 billion in the quarter on value , creating royalty transactions , taking our total to 1.7 billion in the first nine months .

Speaker #4: And we repurchased 4 million shares in the quarter, taking the total value of share repurchases to $1.15 billion in the first nine months.

Speaker #4: Looking at our portfolio , we remain very active in the growing market for royalties . We acquired a royalty interest on Amgen's lung cancer drug Imdelltra for up to 950 million .

Speaker #4: We entered into a funding agreement for up to 300 million with Zenas Biopharma for its development stage . Autoimmune drug Obexelimab . And since the quarter ended , we acquired a royalty on Alnylam's and a blockbuster therapy for TTR amyloidosis for 310 million .

Speaker #4: We're excited by each of these three transactions , and Marshall will take you through the details momentarily . On the back of this busy year , our development stage pipeline has expanded to 17 therapies .

Speaker #4: And as Chris will highlight , we're looking forward to multiple pivotal readouts in the relatively near future . Lastly , we're pleased to raise our full year 2025 top line guidance .

Speaker #4: This is the third time we have raised guidance this year and the 14th since our IPO in 2020. We now expect portfolio receipts to be between $3.2 billion and $3.25 billion, which represents impressive growth of around 14 to 16%, driven by our diversified portfolio.

Speaker #4: Consistent with our standard practice , our guidance is based on our current portfolio and does not include the benefit of any future transactions .

Speaker #4: Slide six is one . I keep coming back to , as it demonstrates our consistent double digit growth on average since our IPO .

Speaker #4: As you heard at our Investor Day in September , we have delivered this impressive record year in and year out . Regardless of the market backdrop , this reflects our ability to execute successfully and consistently against our strategy .

Speaker #4: With that , I will hand it over to Marshall .

Speaker #3: Thanks , Pablo .

Speaker #5: We've had a busy last few months and I want to provide more color on our recent deal activity . The breadth of these transactions totaling approximately $1.6 billion in announced value across three very different disease areas , really highlights the power of Royalty Pharma's therapeutic area agnostic investment approach that focuses on innovative , important new medicines to drive our diversified , sustainable and attractive growth profile .

Speaker #5: Slide eight takes you through our Delta transaction . This is a great example of a large investment in the kind of transformational medicines that are the foundation of our market leading portfolio .

Speaker #5: Amgen's and Deltra was approved in 2024 as a first in class targeted immunotherapy for small cell lung cancer , where median survival is only one year after initial therapy .

Speaker #5: We acquired an existing royalty of about 7% of sales from B1 for up to $950 million , including an upfront of $885 million .

Speaker #5: B1 has the option to sell an additional portion of the royalty to us for up to $65 million . Imdelltra has strong clinical data in the second line setting , and looking ahead , we have high conviction for expansion into newly diagnosed patients with the ongoing phase three trials beginning to read out in 2027 .

Speaker #5: Imdelltra has had a strong launch currently annualizing at over $700 million , with consensus sales reaching 2.7 billion by 2035 . Based on this outlook , we expect the transaction to deliver an Unlevered return in the low double digit range , consistent with our target for transactions on approved products .

Speaker #5: On slide nine , I want to turn to our most recent transaction , in which we acquired Blackstone's 1% royalty on Alnylam's Amvuttra for $310 million .

Speaker #5: And is approved for TTR amyloidosis , a progressive , debilitating , and fatal rare disease , and is already a blockbuster medicine . The clinical data shows a compelling Bayesian patient benefit with dosing once a quarter and an approximately 35% reduction in all cause mortality for patients with the most common form of the disease , TTR cardiomyopathy .

Speaker #5: Alnylam recently reported very strong third quarter sales with TTR franchise guidance rising to between 2.47 5,000,000,002.525 billion for 2025 , with Amvuttra just in its third year on the market .

Speaker #5: Consensus sales are expected to reach over $8 billion in 2030 . We expect an unlevered IRR in the low double digits or better .

Speaker #5: That factors in significant potential competition from follow on therapy in the third transaction is our agreement with zenith Biopharma for Obexelimab , an exciting phase three product for autoimmune diseases .

Speaker #5: Slide ten sets out the key elements Obexelimab is potentially the first non-beef Nondepleting B-cell modulating therapy for a rare autoimmune disorder called IgG4 related disease , with phase three results expected around the end of this year .

Speaker #5: We will provide up to $300 million to acquire a 5.5% synthetic royalty on worldwide Obexelimab sales . Importantly , consistent with our careful approach to risk management , this investment is staged with an upfront of $75 million and the remainder to be paid on the achievement of certain clinical and regulatory milestones .

Speaker #5: The phase two proof of concept data in Igg4-rd are strong and recent phase two results in relapsing multiple sclerosis , which showed an impressive near suppression of active inflammatory disease .

Speaker #5: Further increases our conviction in Obexelimab . Mechanism of action . Commercially , we see blockbuster potential in igg4-rd . Given a patient population of more than 20,000 and still low uptake of advanced therapies .

Speaker #5: As a result , we expect to deliver an unlevered IRR in the teens consistent with our target for development stage therapies . Soda closed three very different transactions , but all consistent with our commitment to creating value for shareholders by investing in innovative therapies with high patient impact .

Speaker #5: With that , let me hand it over to Chris .

Speaker #6: Thanks , Marshall . It's my pleasure to provide an update on our development stage pipeline . As a reminder , at our Investor Day , we highlighted that our pipeline is expected to generate over 36 billion in cumulative peak sales , which translates to over 2 billion in peak royalties to Royalty Pharma .

Speaker #6: So there is really significant potential in this pipeline . Slide 12 illustrates that three of our five royalty transactions this year have been on development stage .

Speaker #6: Therapies , namely Lithophyllum direction and Obexelimab . This expands our total pipeline to 17 therapies , most of which have become , most of which have multiple blockbuster potential .

Speaker #6: Without going into the details of each deal , there are a few key takeaways . First , all three transactions include a synthetic royalty component .

Speaker #6: This speaks to the growing recognition of this attractive non-dilutive funding paradigm , which we pioneered and allows us to tailor solutions for our partners at our Investor Day , we presented findings from the Deloitte survey , which highlighted that the biopharma industry is evolving towards a more diversified funding model in which royalties and particularly synthetic royalties , are becoming a growing part of the capital structure .

Speaker #6: Our deal activity in 2025 underscores this point . We have so far this year announced synthetic royalty transactions of up to $1.8 billion , which have already far exceeded 2024 as our best year ever .

Speaker #6: The second point here is about risk mitigation . Each of these three therapies is in phase three development , which carries a lower risk profile .

Speaker #6: We only consider development stage investments if there is a compelling proof of concept data and an area of unmet patient need . And if the range of commercial scenarios we model supports returns in the teens or better .

Speaker #6: Third , the broad spread of indications highlights our therapy area agnostic approach . In fact , since 2020 , we have invested in 60 different disease areas without the therapy area constraints of most biopharma companies , we view the entire biopharma market as our pipeline of opportunities .

Speaker #6: Slide 13 shows the balance of our capital deployment between approved and development stage investments . The mix varies significantly on a year to year basis .

Speaker #6: Given the timing of opportunities , but has typically been a roughly 6535 split over time between approved products and development stage therapies . We see this as generally a good rule of thumb for our capital deployment mix .

Speaker #6: However , this split does not tell the whole story . In fact , as a result of our success rate in developing development stage , investment , our portfolio risk is low overall .

Speaker #6: For example , 86% of our current capital at work is related to approved products . In this ratio has been very stable , averaging around 90% since 2012 .

Speaker #6: Only 11% of our capital current capital at work is related to development stage products , of which around 2% have already received positive pivotal readouts .

Speaker #6: Slide 14 expands on my earlier comments on risk mitigation . Here you see the industry probability of approval at each phase of development .

Speaker #6: Importantly , and in contrast with biopharma , we don't invest in phase one or phase two . Instead , we focus our investments for industry success .

Speaker #6: Rates are highest by following this disciplined risk-reward approach and by layering on top additional risk mitigation through deal structuring. We've built a strong track record of success.

Speaker #6: This explains why we continue to beat industry benchmarks with around 90% of our development stage investments going on to receive approval on slide 15 .

Speaker #6: I want to close by highlighting the multiple pivotal readouts that we expect for our development stage investments over the next couple of years .

Speaker #6: In the fourth quarter of 2025 and 2026 , we expect six phase three readouts with the first up in hereditary angioedema , followed by obexelimab and IgG4 related disease .

Speaker #6: Additionally , 2026 readouts include the first outcomes trial for our investment in the LP class of drugs with Novartis Pelacarsen , as well as phase three results for Lit and Lupus and Campton and Non-obstructive hypertrophic cardiomyopathy .

Speaker #6: Among these six therapies , three have the potential to generate peak annual royalties of up to $200 million , while direction for pancreatic cancer could be well above 200 million for 2027 .

Speaker #6: We expect pivotal readouts from a host of potential blockbusters , including our second LP , little a investment . El Paso , as well as Fresolimumab and Miss Interaction in lung cancer , to name just three .

Speaker #6: To conclude , the next few years will see multiple events that have the potential to unlock substantial value from our development stage . Pipeline .

Speaker #6: And with that , I'd like to hand it over to Terry .

Speaker #7: Thanks , Chris . Let's move to slide 17 . This slide shows how our efficient business model generates substantial cash flow to be reinvested .

Speaker #7: As you heard from Pablo , royalty receipts grew by 11% in the third quarter , reflecting the excellent momentum of our diversified portfolio .

Speaker #7: Key drivers were the strong growth of Voranigo tremfya and the cystic fibrosis franchise . Milestones and other contractual receipts were modest , both in this quarter and the prior year quarter .

Speaker #7: As a result , we also delivered 11% growth in portfolio receipts . Our top line to $814 million as we move down the column .

Speaker #7: Operating and professional costs equated to 4.2% of portfolio receipts . This reflected cash savings from the internalization transaction and compares with over 12% in the first six months of the year .

Speaker #7: Net interest paid was $123 million in the quarter , reflecting the semiannual timing of our interest payment schedule , with payments primarily in the first and third quarters and the interest received for our cash on our balance sheet .

Speaker #7: Moving further down the column , we have consistently stated that when we think of the cash generated by the business to then be redeployed into value enhancing royalties , we look to portfolio cash flow , which is adjusted EBITDA , less net interest paid .

Speaker #7: This amounted to $657 million in the quarter , equivalent to a margin of around 81% , and reflects a high underlying level of cash conversion and efficiency .

Speaker #7: Capital deployment in the quarter was just over $1 billion . This primarily included the $885 million upfront for Imdelltra , $75 million upfront for Obexelimab , and R&D funding for Mab .

Speaker #7: Lastly , our weighted average share count declined by 33 million shares versus the third quarter of 2024 , reflecting the impact of our share buyback program .

Speaker #7: On slide 18 . I am pleased to share our first quarterly update on portfolio returns . We introduced these new metrics at our Investor Day , and I hope the message came across loud and clear .

Speaker #7: We are in the returns business and every capital allocation decision we make is in an effort to create economic value for shareholders . Return on invested capital has been remarkably stable .

Speaker #7: Stable at around 15% on average from 2019 to 2024 , and in the third quarter was 15.7% for the last 12 month period ending September 30th .

Speaker #7: Return on invested equity , which shows the impact of conservative leverage on our equity returns , has been consistently in the low 20% range and was 22.9% for the last 12 month period ending September 30th .

Speaker #7: We believe these new metrics facilitate a deeper understanding of the cash yield for our business and demonstrate that we are continuing to invest at attractive returns that will drive long term value for our shareholders .

Speaker #7: Slide 19 shows that we continue to maintain the financial flexibility to execute our strategy and return capital to shareholders at the end of the third quarter , we had cash and equivalents of $939 million .

Speaker #7: In terms of borrowings . We have investment grade debt outstanding of $9.2 billion , including the $2 billion of notes we issued in the third quarter and a weighted average duration of around 13 years .

Speaker #7: Our leverage now stands at around 3.2 times total debt to adjusted EBITDA , or 2.9 times on a net basis . We also have access to our $1.8 billion revolver , which is undrawn .

Speaker #7: Taken together , we have access to approximately $2.9 billion of financial capacity through cash on our balance sheet . The cast , our business generates and access to the debt markets .

Speaker #7: Turning to our capital allocation framework , we have deployed $1.7 billion of capital on attractive royalty deals in the first nine months of 2025 .

Speaker #7: We have also returned a record $1.5 billion to our shareholders in the first nine months of this year , including share repurchases of $1.15 billion and our growing dividend .

Speaker #7: On slide 20 . We are raising our full year 2025 financial guidance by approximately 4% at the midpoint . We now expect portfolio receipts to be in the range of 3.2 billion to $3.25 billion , an increase from 3.05 billion to $3.15 billion previously representing growth of around 14% to 16% .

Speaker #7: The increase from our previous guidance primarily reflects the strong momentum of our diversified portfolio . Milestones and other contractual receipts are now expected to be around $125 million , compared with $110 million previously .

Speaker #7: Importantly, and consistent with our standard practice, this guidance is based on our portfolio as of today and does not take into account the benefit of any future royalty acquisitions.

Speaker #7: Turning to operating costs . Payments for operating and professional costs are still expected to be 9% to 9.5% of portfolio receipts in 2025 .

Speaker #7: As a reminder , costs in the first half of the year were greater than 12% of portfolio receipts , driven by approximately $70 million of one time expenses related to the internalization and other one time items .

Speaker #7: Collectively , these items are expected to impact full year costs by a little more than 2% of portfolio receipts . Lastly , interest paid in 2025 is expected to be around $275 million , with around $7 million to be paid in Q4 .

Speaker #7: This guidance does not take into account interest received on our cash balance , which was $28 million in the first nine months . In summary , we delivered a strong third quarter and nine months , which puts us on track to achieve another year of strong financial performance in 2025 , reflected in our raised guidance .

Speaker #7: To close , I want to highlight a few factors for 2026 to help , 2026 to help with your modeling . First , we expect minimal royalties from Promacta next year , which is facing the launch of generics in the United States and Europe in 2025 .

Speaker #7: And second , we currently anticipate interest paid to be between 300 and $50 million to $360 million in 2026 , which includes interest payments on the $2 billion of senior secured notes issued in September 2025 .

Speaker #7: We plan to provide full year 2026 guidance when we report fourth quarter 2025 earnings early early next year . Consistent with our standard practice , this guidance will exclude contributions from any future investments .

Speaker #7: With that , I would like to hand the call back to Pablo .

Speaker #4: Thanks , Terry . To conclude , I'm delighted with our performance in the quarter . We maintained our double digit momentum . We expanded our portfolio , and we again raised our guidance .

Speaker #4: We also hosted a successful Investor Day , where we were thrilled to share our plans for shareholder value creation . On that note , I want to close by reiterating some of the key messages from the day where the clear leader in an expanding market with strong fundamental tailwinds reflecting huge demand for funding life sciences innovation in even more creative ways .

Speaker #4: We have a best in class platform for investing in the most exciting and innovative products marketed by Premier biopharma companies and expect to remain the undisputed leader .

Speaker #4: We have announced an outstanding track record of delivering consistent and attractive returns , including an IRR and return on invested capital in the mid-teens and return on invested equity of over 20% .

Speaker #4: Lastly , we're on track to deliver strong low volatility growth through 2030 and beyond . Together , we think this adds up to a very attractive investment proposition with a potential for annualized total shareholder returns , at least in the mid-teens over the next five years .

Speaker #4: With that , we would be happy to take your questions .

Speaker #3: We will now open up the call to your questions . Operator . Please take the first question .

Speaker #2: Thank you . To ask a question , please press star one . One on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced .

Speaker #2: And to withdraw your question , please press star one one again . The first question comes from Asad Haider with Goldman Sachs . Your line is open .

Speaker #8: Great. Thanks for taking the questions, and congrats on all the progress. Just maybe a couple of questions on the external environment recently. We are seeing a bit of an uptick in biotech M&A, and we're also moving into a lower interest rate environment.

Speaker #8: So could you perhaps speak to the pushes and pulls that these changing that this changing backdrop across these external factors presents for royalty driven deal activity and how you're thinking about the opportunity set and your target returns .

Speaker #8: And then just second , just any updated thoughts on how you're thinking about the China opportunity that you discussed at your Investor Day back in September ?

Speaker #8: Any updates or insights around your China strategy as it relates to the types of investments that you're considering ? There would be helpful and how , if at all , does the external environment impact that ?

Speaker #8: Thank you .

Speaker #4: Thank you for the question , Chris . Why don't you take this question ? Both . Both of them .

Speaker #6: Yeah . Great . Thank you . Thanks for the question . You're right . There has been an uptick in M&A marketplace . And that really has very little impact on anything that we're doing .

Speaker #6: You know , what you've seen is obviously large pharma is looking to sell some of their their pipelines and low exposure . And we actually see that as beneficial to what we're doing .

Speaker #6: I think in the sense of , you know , it's just , you know , the companies out there need a lot of capital .

Speaker #6: There's a variety of ways in which they can get capital . We're we're clearly providing a key source of capital in the sector , which we which we're super excited about .

Speaker #6: So , you know , increased M&A uptick really doesn't impact the royalty market . In the sense of China . You're right . We're super excited .

Speaker #6: That's that's going to be and we've seen a lot of growth in the out licensing out of China to multinationals . We see that as another leg of growth on the existing royalty marketplace .

Speaker #6: You know , as as you know , we spend a lot of time looking at companies and investing companies post proof of concept .

Speaker #6: I remark , made some remarks in the prepared remarks about what stage of development we invest in . A lot of those deals out of China have been early stage development deals .

Speaker #6: We're going to track those transactions and those molecules as they progress with the with the companies that in-license them . And there certainly will be opportunities to to those royalties as there's more known about about the compounds that were outlicensed the multinationals .

Speaker #6: So we're super excited . We've had multiple teams go to China this year , multiple times , building relationships for that , for that opportunity set .

Speaker #6: So we're excited about the opportunity . We see it just as another leg of growth on the existing royalty marketplace .

Speaker #2: Thank you . And our next question will come from Chris Parikh with J.P. Morgan . Your line is open .

Speaker #9: Hi . This is Hardik in for Chris . I'm just wondering , I know Merck had recently announced a royalty deal with one of your peers , and you guys have also done a couple of R&D collaborations with Biogen and Merck in the past .

Speaker #9: Do you think the frequency of these types of collaborations with large pharma will increase , as those names head towards their patent cycles ?

Speaker #9: What type of factors drive these deals from farmer's perspective ?

Speaker #4: Yes . Thank you for the question . And I think I'll start by just saying that , you know , as the largest royalty buyer in the market , you can sort of assume that we look at every deal , you know , this product is also a competitor to Trodelvy , where we have a royalty .

Speaker #4: We funded the phase three . So we're very familiar with the space and regarding the deal specifically , you know what I would say is that it's just great to see how this idea of using royalties to fund trials , not only with biotech companies , but also with with big Pharma , is really becoming mainstream , which speaks to the big opportunity that we have in front of us .

Speaker #4: And I think this is going to just continue to grow . And it's a really big opportunity . If you think of of the scale of capital needed , required by this companies .

Speaker #4: So we're very optimistic about this transaction is continuing , continuing to happen . And I think with respect to the transaction , specifically , as I said , you know , we actually looked at it but decided at the end that it was not for us .

Speaker #4: And, you know, continue to be very active with many big pharma companies to talk about this kind of funding. Thank you.

Speaker #2: Thank you. In the next question, we will hear from Geoff Meacham with Citi. Your line is open.

Speaker #10: Hey , guys . Morning . Thanks for the question . I guess Terry , or maybe Pablo on the IRR . I'm assuming that that's likely to tick up .

Speaker #10: And by the way , thanks for for presenting the that data . It's likely to tick up as you hit a tipping point .

Speaker #10: You know of new launches I guess the bigger picture is does that change royalties willingness to look to maybe moderately earlier programs , or maybe just take bigger risks ?

Speaker #10: I know you're not obviously going to materially change the model , but the question is more of a more of a tilt going forward on the on the risk side .

Speaker #10: Thank you .

Speaker #4: Sure . What you take that question , Terry , but I think just one very top level comment about it . You can imagine that we've been actually tracking this for three decades , and it it really doesn't change much .

Speaker #4: Our behavior . You know , if we see an attractive transaction in an approved product or an attractive transaction in a product that is in development , you know , we will do it .

Speaker #4: And and the the fact that this calculations , this returns are going to move up and down a little bit will not really impact our our behavior in terms of us looking at transactions and deploying capital .

Speaker #4: But go ahead , sir .

Speaker #7: Yeah . Pablo , I think that's it's that's exactly the point . And I would say , you know , on the specifics on the , the return on invested capital and return on invested equity metrics that we started to , to highlight .

Speaker #7: I think the thing that we're most proud of really , is the stability and the consistency . And so , you know , as we've continued to scale our our investments , it's remained remarkably stable .

Speaker #7: And we think that that , you know , it's going to bounce around a little bit , you know , quarter in and quarter out .

Speaker #7: But it should remain , you know , for return on invested capital in that mid-teens range for the foreseeable future , which we think really speaks to the value creation of our business model .

Speaker #10: Okay . Thanks , guys .

Speaker #2: And our next question will come from Amir Rafat with Evercore . Your line is open .

Speaker #11: Hi , guys . This is Mike Difiore in for Umer . Thanks so much for taking my question . Two two for me .

Speaker #11: I want to drill down on the Amvuttra deal . You mentioned significant competition from New Zealand potentially , but could you provide any color on the range of scenarios that factor in significant , significant competition from this asset ?

Speaker #11: And in the scenario where it does get approved and launches in 2030 , how quickly might you see Amvuttra eroding and quickly separately , any updates on the market ?

Speaker #11: You know , for for synthetic royalties in the obesity space ? Thank you .

Speaker #4: Marshall , why don't you take both questions ?

Speaker #3: Sure , Mike .

Speaker #5: Good morning and thanks for the question . So specifically on how we thought about Amvuttra over its whole product life cycle . You know , as we highlighted at the beginning of the call , you know , we are really excited about this product .

Speaker #5: It's , you know , it's completely consistent with the kind of products that we've invested in in the past . And I think the strong launch in Armstrong execution behind it are all examples of that .

Speaker #5: Specifically to your question , as we always do , we looked at a pretty broad range of scenarios for both timing and the slope of how new Questran might enter the market .

Speaker #5: We obviously have a case study , very recent case study of the Onpattro to amvuttra transition to sort of to help us and guide us as , as , as one scenario .

Speaker #5: But we certainly looked at looked at a lot of sensitivities around that as well , with the message being and why we talked about that , that we're , you know , we're confident in , in , in an IRR of low double digits or better .

Speaker #5: You know , when we look across that , that range of scenarios , even baking in , you know , that that range of new Crestor and scenarios .

Speaker #5: Second on the obesity market . So it continues to be I think , message very consistent with what we've said in the past .

Speaker #5: Certainly on our radar , looking for the right opportunities there . We don't just want to , you know , we don't just want to have a royalty on an obesity product for the for the sake of it .

Speaker #5: We want it to be an important product that differentiates itself in the space , and will be disciplined . Will will be disciplined in waiting to find the right thing that creates value for our shareholders .

Speaker #11: Great . Thank you .

Speaker #2: And the next question will come from Terence Flynn with Morgan Stanley . Your line is open .

Speaker #10: Hi . Thanks for taking the questions . Two for me . First , congrats on the deal . I think Blackstone originally signed a deal with Al Island back in 2020 .

Speaker #10: And Pablo , given your comments that you guys look at everything , I'm assuming you had a look at it back then . So just wondering , you know , what's different now versus that 2020 deal .

Speaker #10: And then on the LP little a front , probably a question for Marshall Amgen , as I'm sure you guys heard last night , talked about the El phase three event rate tracking slower than expected .

Speaker #10: Just any thoughts there on your views on implications for probability of success here for this study ? Thank you .

Speaker #4: Sure . Marshall will take the second part of the question , but maybe to provide some color on the first one regarding yes , it is part of a larger deal that was done in 2020 , which was about $1 billion .

Speaker #4: That actually related much more to Inclisiran . And this small royalty 1% on a was sort of an add on to the transaction .

Speaker #4: It was sort of a $70 million part of the the , the overall transaction . And , you know , we did look at that .

Speaker #4: The whole deal at the time . But again , we decided it was not for us . And I think one thing I will comment on , because obviously , you know , I think this provides some color regarding this whole this question that we've had for , you know , since we went public five years ago about competition .

Speaker #4: And obviously regarding , you know , the motivations of white Blackstone sold , you should ask them . But , you know , they've been in this investment for five years , and it's an attractive return given the the investment they made specifically on this .

Speaker #4: But I think one thing to to comment on , you know , as we highlighted in our Investor Day , is that we do have a very unique structure as a company .

Speaker #4: Now ongoing business , perpetual versus , you know , many of our competitors that are structured as close in funds where they have investment horizons that are much shorter than ours .

Speaker #4: And as you know , royalties are very , very long , you know , can be ten , 15 years . So what's very unique about royalty Pharma is that we're structured to actually invest in assets that are very long and hold them to maturity .

Speaker #4: And I think this really speaks to the differences in the business models where we are really set up to own royalties that are going to cash flow for , you know , ten , 15 or or longer than that .

Speaker #4: And so we have , you know , sort of different investment horizons . And I think the last thing I would say is that this transaction also highlights something unique about royalty , pharma , which is that given our , you know , diligence process that has been honed over , you know , decades , we were able to develop a differentiated view about the sales trajectory and importantly , the persistence and duration of the royalties that may be differs from other people's perspectives .

Speaker #4: And that's why we think this is a very attractive investment that will deliver attractive returns for us . But the other question for you , Marshall .

Speaker #5: Sure , Terrence . Hey . Good morning . So thanks for the question on LP , little A so specifically Amgen did talk about a slower event rate in that study last night .

Speaker #5: I think that probably shouldn't come as a surprise given , you know , our other given Novartis , where we also have an investment in their LP product , you know , had a similar observation from their trial .

Speaker #5: I think when we did the initial diligence , when you're running a first in class outcome study for a target in a population where there's not a lot of precedent , I think we were eyes open about the fact that they're ultimately would be some uncertainty around timing and the exact event rate .

Speaker #5: So what that means to us , to your question is it doesn't change our view of the probability of success . And , you know , we continue to be really excited about having , you know , two royalties in the two leading therapies in this class that we think could be a very large , you know , multibillion dollar class in the future .

Speaker #5: And we're we're really excited to be a part of it .

Speaker #2: And our next question will come from Mike Nedeljkovic with TD Cohen . Your line is open .

Speaker #12: Hi . Thanks for the questions . I have two . My first is also on the LP space and specifically I'm wondering if the Horizon trial fails in 2026 , to what extent do you think differences in trial design could ride to the rescue , as it relates to Olpasiran prospects in 2027 ?

Speaker #12: And my second question is on Obexelimab . This agent very interesting phase posted some two data right after Royalty Pharma announced its deal .

Speaker #12: So I'm just curious if that has changed your thinking at all around peak potential , or was Miss Upside already taken into account ?

Speaker #12: Thank you .

Speaker #4: Sure . Thanks for the question again . This is for you .

Speaker #5: Sure . Mike . Good morning and thank you for the questions . So a specifically your question on LP , on LP , little a just for everyone very quickly who might not be familiar with all the details here .

Speaker #5: So Mike , your question is if the first outcomes trial that we'll read out horizon from Novartis were not to be positive , what would the implications be for the second one coming , which is Amgen's trial for Alpecin ?

Speaker #5: And I think there are certainly some differences in trial design . There's some differences in depth of lp-pla lowering . So , you know , we are optimistic about both trials .

Speaker #5: But , you know , certainly there are differences in the trial design which could differentiate the old outcome from the from from Horizon and Pelacarsen .

Speaker #5: Hard to comment really . Specifically on that right now until we see until , you we see the details and what happens . So we are certainly optimistic and excited to see the first one next year .

Speaker #5: Your second question on Obexelimab . So yep , we were , you know , the the miss data that zenith reported looked great .

Speaker #5: And I think as we highlighted in the prepared remarks , you know , it really kind of validates the underlying kind of scientific and clinical question here , which is if you have a non B cell depleting , but B cell activity modulating antibody , what would the what would that mean for activity in in various autoimmune diseases .

Speaker #5: And I think you know the miss data . And really showing very strong suppression of disease activity is very validating of of the view that this is a new and different way of treating autoimmune disease , which is exciting .

Speaker #5: You know , the the near-term launch . And I think what we were really working with , you know , zenith on funding is certainly focused on IgG4 related disease .

Speaker #5: And so , you know , that that was really the that was the focus of the deal , because I think in a lot of ways , from a commercial perspective that drives the near-term capital need , but , you know , they have a great team over there at zenith .

Speaker #5: And excited to see what they do with Obexelimab in addition to IgG4 related disease .

Speaker #2: Thank you . I show no further questions in the queue at this time . I would now like to turn the call back over to Pablo for closing remarks .

Speaker #4: Thank you . Operator , and thanks to everyone on the call for your continued interest in royalty , Pharma . If you have any follow up questions , please feel free to reach out to George Grofik .

Speaker #4: Thanks .