Q3 2025 Ategrity Specialty Insurance Co Holdings Earnings Call
Speaker #1: Good afternoon , everyone , and thank you for joining us today for Integrity's third quarter fiscal Year 2025 earnings Results conference call . Speaking today are Justin Cohen , chief Executive Officer .
Operator: Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for Ategrity Specialty Insurance Company Holdings' third quarter fiscal year 2025 earnings results conference call. Speaking today are Justin Cohen, Chief Executive Officer, Chris Schenk, President and Chief Underwriting Officer, and Neelam Patel, Chief Financial Officer. After Justin, Chris, and Neelam have made their formal remarks, we will open the call to questions. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star, followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press star one again. Thank you.
Speaker #1: Chris Schenk , President and Chief Underwriting officer . And Neelam Patel , chief Financial officer . After Justin , Chris and Neelam have made their formal remarks , we will open the call to questions .
Speaker #1: All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise . The after the speakers are marked , there will be a question and answer session .
Speaker #1: If you would like to ask a question during this time , simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad .
Speaker #1: If you would like to withdraw your question , press star one again . Thank you . Before we begin , I would like to mention that certain matters discussed in today's conference call are forward looking statements relating to future events , management's plans and objectives for the business and the future financial performance of the company .
Operator: Before we begin, I would like to mention that certain matters discussed in today's conference call are forward-looking statements relating to future events, management's plans, and objectives for the business and the future financial performance of the company that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in these forward-looking statements. The risk factors that may affect results are referred to in our press release issued today, our final prospectus, and other filings filed with the SEC. We do not undertake any obligation to update the forward-looking statements made today. Finally, the speakers may refer to certain adjusted or non-GAAP financial measures on this call. A reconciliation of the non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is also available in our press release issued today, a copy of which may be obtained by visiting the investor relations website at investors.ategrity.com.
Speaker #1: That are subject to risks and uncertainties . Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in these forward looking statements . The risk factors that may affect results are referred to in our press release issued today .
Speaker #1: Our final prospectus and other filings filed with the SEC . We do not undertake any obligation to update the forward looking statements made today .
Speaker #1: Finally , the speakers may refer to certain adjusted or non-GAAP financial measures on this call . I reconciliation of the non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is also available in our press release issued today .
Speaker #1: A copy of which may be obtained by visiting the Investor Relations website at investors . I will now turn the call over to Justin .
Operator: I will now turn the call over to Justin.
Speaker #2: Good evening and thank you all for joining Integrity's third quarter 2020 earnings call . This is Justin Cohen , and I am joined here today by Chris Schenk .
Justin Cohen: Good evening, and thank you all for joining Ategrity Specialty Insurance Company Holdings' third quarter 2025 earnings call. This is Justin Cohen, and I am joined here today by Chris Schenk, our President and Chief Underwriting Officer, and Neelam Patel, our CFO. Ategrity delivered record results this quarter. Gross written premiums grew 30% year over year, including accelerating growth in property lines. Our combined ratio improved to 88.7% as we began to demonstrate operating leverage. With investment income, our adjusted net income was $22.8 million, translating into 78% year over year growth. These results were ahead of guidance despite industry data pointing to a deceleration in the E&S market. We believe that's because we are executing a model that is truly differentiated. It's built on specialization, analytics, automation, and distribution, and we are capitalizing on these strengths to drive sustainable growth and profits.
Speaker #2: Our president and chief Underwriting officer . And Neil and Patel , our CFO at Tegrity , delivered record results this quarter . Gross written premiums grew 30% year over year , including accelerating growth in property lines .
Speaker #2: Our combined ratio improved to 88.7% as we began to demonstrate operating leverage with investment income . Our adjusted net income was 22.8 million .
Speaker #2: Translating into 78% year-over-year growth. These results were ahead of guidance, despite industry data pointing to a deceleration in the ONS market.
Speaker #2: We believe that's because we are executing a model that is truly differentiated . It's built on specialization , analytics , automation and distribution , and we are capitalizing on these strengths to drive sustainable growth and profits .
Speaker #2: This was a quarter characterized by expanding top line operating leverage and improved economics . First , on top line growth , we achieved a 30% increase in gross written premiums , supported by 70% submission growth .
Justin Cohen: This was a quarter characterized by expanding top line, operating leverage, and improved economics. First on top line growth, we achieved a 30% increase in gross written premiums, supported by 70% submission growth. That's seven zero, not one seven. Our distribution network is exceptionally large for a company our size, and we are driving deeper engagement by bringing new and attractive solutions to the market. Second on operating leverage, our operating expense ratio improved 2.7 percentage points as prior investments in infrastructure and process efficiency began to deliver. Expense growth moderated while earned premiums accelerated, and we are realizing this upside even as we invest in new lines of business and next-generation technology that are expected to drive the next phase of leverage. Finally, on improved economics, our policy acquisition ratio improved 1.8 percentage points as we continue to optimize our business mix.
Speaker #2: That's seven zero , .17 . Our distribution network is exceptionally large for a company . Our size , and we are driving deeper engagement by bringing new and attractive solutions to the market .
Speaker #2: Second, on operating leverage, our operating expense ratio improved 2.7 percentage points as prior investments in infrastructure and process efficiency began to deliver expense growth.
Speaker #2: Moderated while earned premiums accelerated . And we are realizing this upside even as we invest in new lines of business in next generation technologies that are expected to drive the next phase of leverage .
Speaker #2: Finally , on improved economics , our policy acquisition ratio improved 1.8 percentage points as we continue to optimize our business mix . We have been deliberately increasing the percentage of our premiums written in our brokerage channel , where acquisition costs are lower .
Justin Cohen: We have been deliberately increasing the percentage of our premiums written in our brokerage channel where acquisition costs are lower. This has been underway for several quarters and is now earning through in our results. Now, turning back to the broader E&S market, where headwinds have emerged in certain areas, competitive intensity has increased, but conditions remain rational in the small and medium-sized space. This segment has remained relatively insulated given the challenges that new entrants face in trying to profitably write $10,000 policies without the requisite scale. Against that backdrop, we are focused on extending Ategrity's structural advantages of speed, competitive products, and technical pricing to drive disciplined share gains. With that, I'll now turn it over to Neelam for the financials.
Speaker #2: This has been underway for several quarters and is now earning through in our results . Now turning back to the broader ONS market , where headwinds have emerged in certain areas , competitive intensity has increased , but conditions remain rational in the small and medium sized space .
Speaker #2: This segment has remained relatively insulated given the challenges that new entrants face in trying to profitably write $10,000 policies without the requisite scale .
Speaker #2: Against that backdrop, we are focused on extending Integrity's structural advantages of speed, competitive products, and technical pricing to drive disciplined share gains.
Speaker #2: So with that, I'll now turn it over to Neelam for the financials.
Speaker #3: Thanks , Justin . We delivered another strong quarter of financial performance . Adjusted net income came in at 22.8 million , up from 12.9 million in the same quarter last year , driven by top line growth , improving margins and higher investment income .
Neelam Patel: Thanks, Justin. We delivered another strong quarter of financial performance. Adjusted net income came in at $22.8 million, up from $12.9 million in the same quarter last year, driven by top line growth, improving margins, and higher investment income. Let me walk you through the main line items, starting with premiums. Gross written premiums grew by 30% in the quarter. Casualty premiums increased by 41%, while property premiums went up by 11%, both contributing meaningfully to our overall growth. Net written premiums grew by 42%, reflecting a higher retention rate year over year. Net earned premiums were up by 29%, reflecting the natural-led earnings recognition of our growth trajectory and a quota share reinsurance treaty we placed in 2024. Net earned premium growth accelerated sequentially, consistent with our prior comments of abating headwinds in the second half.
Speaker #3: Let me walk you through the main line items , starting with premiums , gross written premiums grew by 30% in the quarter . Casualty premiums increased by 41% , while property premiums went up by 11% .
Speaker #3: Both contributing meaningfully to our overall growth . Net written premiums grew by 42% , reflecting a higher retention rate year over year . Net earned premiums were up by 29% , reflecting the natural lagged earnings recognition of our growth trajectory and a quota share reinsurance treaty .
Speaker #3: We placed in 2020 for net earned premium growth , accelerated sequentially . Consistent with our prior comments of abating headwinds in the second half .
Speaker #3: Our fee income came in at 2.2 million , compared to 0.2 million a year ago , reflecting higher policy fees . As we continue to implement standard market practices .
Neelam Patel: Our fee income came in at $2.2 million compared to $0.2 million a year ago, reflecting higher policy fees as we continue to implement standard market practices. Turning to underwriting results, our underwriting income for the quarter was $10.6 million, up nearly 208% year over year. This translates into a combined ratio of 88.7%, an improvement from 95.3% last year due to reductions in both our loss and expense ratio. The loss ratio declined 2.1 points to 60%, with strong underlying results in our property business. In the current quarter, we had no prior year development compared to 1.7 points last year that were related to a change in how we reserved for legal expenses. Catastrophe losses represented 4% of net earned premium this quarter, down from 12.1% last year, which had an active hurricane season.
Speaker #3: Turning to underwriting results , our underwriting income for the quarter was 10.6 million , up nearly 208% year over year . This translates into a combined ratio of 88.7% , an improvement from 95.3% last year due to reductions in both our loss and expense ratio .
Speaker #3: The loss ratio declined 2.1 points to 60% , with strong underlying results , and our property business in the current quarter , we had no prior year development compared to 1.7 points last year that were related to a change in how we reserved for legal expenses .
Speaker #3: Catastrophe losses represented 4% of net earned premium this quarter , down from 12.1% last year , which had an active hurricane season . Our expense ratio declined 4.5 points to 28.7% , reflecting improvements in both operating efficiency and business mix .
Neelam Patel: Our expense ratio declined 4.5 points to 28.7%, reflecting improvements in both operating efficiency and business mix. Operating expenses represented 10.8% of net earned premiums, down 2.7 points from last year, and also lower than the second quarter of 2025. The declines were driven by expense leverage and higher fee income. Policy acquisition costs, as a percentage of net earned premiums, declined to 17.9% from 19.7%. The improvement was primarily driven by favorable mix shift, as growth has been concentrated in lines of business carrying lower gross commission rates and higher ceding commissions. Moving on to investment results, net investment income was $11 million in the third quarter, up from $6.8 million last year, driven by increased assets from our IPO and higher yields on our fixed income portfolio. Realized and unrealized gains contributed another $9.2 million, supported by strong results in our absolute return portfolio.
Speaker #3: Operating expenses represented 10.8% of net earned premiums, down 2.7 points from last year and also lower than the second quarter of 2025.
Speaker #3: The declines were driven by expense , leverage and higher fee income policy acquisition costs . As a percentage of net earned premiums declined to 17.9% from 19.7% .
Speaker #3: The improvement was primarily driven by favorable mix shift , as growth has been concentrated in lines of businesses carrying lower gross commission rates and higher seating commissions .
Speaker #3: Moving on to investment results . Net investment income was $11 million in the third quarter , up from 6.8 million last year , driven by increased assets from our IPO and higher yields on our fixed income portfolio .
Speaker #3: Realized and unrealized gains contributed another 9.2 million , supported by strong results in our absolute return portfolio . Our effective tax rate for the quarter was 20.6% , bringing the net income to 22.7 million , adjusted net income , which adds back IPO related compensation costs , was 22.8 million , or $0.46 per diluted share .
Neelam Patel: Our effective tax rate for the quarter was 20.6%, bringing the net income to $22.7 million. Adjusted net income, which adds back IPO-related compensation costs, was $22.8 million or $0.46 per diluted share. Turning briefly to the balance sheet, our cash and investments grew by $86 million from the second quarter to $1.1 billion, reflecting strong operating cash flow. Book value increased by $29 million, driven by $23 million attributable to increased retained earnings and the rest to increased AOCI. Our book value per share ended the quarter at $12.24. With that, I will hand it over to Chris to talk about our underwriting and operating performance.
Speaker #3: Turning briefly to the balance sheet, our cash and investments grew by $86 million from the second quarter to $1.45 billion, reflecting strong operating cash flow.
Speaker #3: Book value increased by 29 million , driven by 23 million , attributable to increased retained earnings and the rest to increase aoci . Our book value per share ended the quarter at $12.24 , with that , I will hand it over to Chris to talk about our underwriting and operating performance .
Speaker #4: Thanks , Neelam . Integrity grew 30% and improved margins this quarter . I'll talk to you about the contributors to those results , and then I will provide some perspective on why our differentiated underwriting approach is resonating in the current market .
Operator: Thanks, Neelam. Ategrity grew 30% and improved margins this quarter. I'll talk to you about the contributors to those results, and then I will provide some perspective on why our differentiated underwriting approach is resonating in the current market. I'll start with top line production. Retentions remained stable. We achieved mid to high single digits renewal rate increases. That was in both property and casualty, and new business growth was very strong. Four key points illustrate the quality of this growth. First, there was record high demand for Ategrity quotes. This was in both property and casualty, where we saw submissions increase more than 70% year over year. Second, we saw stronger partner engagement. Our 2023 and 2024 distribution cohorts contributed meaningfully. They delivered same-store growth in the range of 80%. Third, we expanded our distribution reach.
Speaker #4: I'll start with top line production . Retentions remained stable . We achieved mid to high single digits renewal rate increases . That was in both property and casualty , and new business growth was very strong .
Speaker #4: For key points illustrate the quality of this growth . First , there was record high demand for integrity . Quotes . This was in both property and casualty , where we saw submissions increase more than 70% year over year .
Speaker #4: Second , we saw stronger partner engagement . Our 2023 and 2024 distribution cohorts contributed meaningfully . They delivered same store growth in the range of 80% .
Speaker #4: Third, we expanded our distribution reach after more than doubling our distribution network from 2022 to 2024. The number of active distribution partners once again grew this year by another 25%.
Operator: After more than doubling our distribution network from 2022 to 2024, the number of active distribution partners once again grew this year by another 25%. This extends our runway for growth. Fourth, we maintained discipline underwriting. Our hit ratio was in line with plan. That is low single digits in brokerage, and this is because we are staying selective and firm on price. Last quarter, we highlighted three growth initiatives: the retail trade vertical, which we launched in brokerage; our professional liability lines; and Project Heartland, our Midwest regional strategy. Each once again contributed meaningfully in Q3. Together, they accounted for about half of our growth. Turning to underwriting margins, in our property book, we experienced lower frequency and lower severity. Relative to expectations, casualty losses are developing favorably. We recorded a conservative firm-wide loss ratio of 60%, although our pricing loss ratio is meaningfully lower.
Speaker #4: This extends our runway for growth . And fourth , we maintain discipline underwriting our hit ratio was in line with plan . That is low single digits in brokerage .
Speaker #4: And this is because we are staying selective and firm on price. Last quarter, we highlighted three growth initiatives: the retail trade vertical, which we launched in brokerage.
Speaker #4: Our professional liability lines and Project Heartland . Our Midwest regional strategy . Each once again contributed meaningfully in Q3 . Together , they accounted for about half of our growth .
Speaker #4: Turning to underwriting margins and our property book , we experienced lower frequency and lower severity . And relative to expectations , casualty losses are developing favorably .
Speaker #4: We recorded a conservative firmwide loss ratio of 60% , although our pricing loss ratio is meaningfully lower from an operating leverage standpoint . While net written premium grew more than 40% , we realized efficiency gains across our business .
Operator: From an operating leverage standpoint, while net written premium grew more than 40%, we realized efficiency gains across our business. This translated into only moderate expense growth. In Q3, we processed record submissions and quotes and managed a larger enforced book, all while delivering the speed and service that our brokers expect. As we maintain a conservative hit ratio, automation continues to safeguard operating margins. We also reduced acquisition costs. This is because we wrote more business in our brokerage channel and capitalized on two new growth initiatives. The first initiative is our digital brokerage channel. We launched a technology-enabled solution that provides small business agents with streamlined access to our brokerage products. These agents occasionally need to place mid-size policies and have limited options to do so. Through Ategrity's digital brokerage platform, they can now receive quotes on mid-size accounts with what we believe is market-leading response times.
Speaker #4: This translated into only moderate expense growth . In Q3 , we processed record submissions and quotes and managed a larger in-force book , all while delivering the speed and service that our brokers expect .
Speaker #4: As we maintain a conservative hit ratio . Automation continues to safeguard operating margins . We also reduced acquisition costs . This is because we wrote more business in our brokerage channel and capitalized on two new growth initiatives .
Speaker #4: The first initiative is our digital brokerage channel . We launched a technology enabled solution that provides small business agents with streamlined access to our brokerage products .
Speaker #4: These agents occasionally need to place midsize policies and have limited options to do so through a digital brokerage . They can now receive quotes on midsize accounts with what we believe is market leading response times .
Speaker #4: The second specialty offering for our real estate vertical . We innovated a product that addresses evolving , lending requirements for multifamily developers . These requirements are imposed by Fannie Mae , Freddie Mac , and the larger banking sector , and we have developed a casualty product that responds to those requirements .
Operator: The second initiative is a specialty offering for our real estate vertical. We innovated a product that addresses the evolving lending requirements for multifamily developers. These requirements are imposed by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the larger banking sector, and we have developed a specialty casualty product that responds to those requirements. This is very different than our standard casualty offering, and as far as we know, there's nothing comparable in the market. As a result, we have been able to distribute it while achieving superior policy acquisition economics. Finally, turning to our competitive positioning, in Q3, a record number of brokers wanted to present an Ategrity quote to their clients. As we have talked about, our pricing tends to be higher than our competitors, so we believe that this demand is driven by the appeal of our product.
Speaker #4: This is very different from our standard casualty offering, and as far as we know, there's nothing comparable in the market. As a result, we have been able to distribute it while achieving superior policy acquisition economics.
Speaker #4: Finally, turning to our competitive positioning in Q3, a record number of brokers wanted to present an Integrity quote to their clients.
Speaker #4: As we have talked about our pricing tends to be higher than our competitors , so we believe that this demand is driven by the appeal of our product instead of relying on unfair exclusions and wording ambiguity , we deliver fast , high quality quotes with coverage that insured actually needs .
Operator: Instead of relying on unfair exclusions and wording ambiguity, we deliver fast, high-quality quotes with coverage that the insured actually needs, and for that, we charge a fair and technically sound price. Brokers are telling us that they want an Ategrity quote because they know and trust our product. With tighter lending standards and a more volatile political and judicial environment, there is a heightened focus on coverage quality and contract certainty, and our product strategy, which offers clear, comprehensive coverage with only the necessary exclusions, is standing out in a very crowded marketplace. Those are some of the dynamics behind our results. In short, Ategrity's productionized underwriting model is doing exactly what it was designed to do. It's delivering disciplined growth and expanding margins, and at the same time, it's strengthening our position in the market. With that, I'll hand it back to Justin.
Speaker #4: And for that, we charge a fair and technically sound price. Brokers are telling us that they want an integrity quote because they know and trust our product with tighter lending standards and a more volatile political and judicial environment.
Speaker #4: There initiative is a heightened focus on coverage quality and contract certainty , and our product strategy , which offers clear , comprehensive coverage with only the necessary exclusions , is standing out in a very crowded marketplace .
Speaker #4: So those are some of the dynamics behind our results . In short , Integrity's Productionized underwriting model is doing exactly what it was designed to do .
Speaker #4: It's delivering disciplined growth and expanding margins . And at the same time , it's strengthening our position in the market . With that , I'll hand it back to Justin .
Speaker #2: Thanks , Chris . This was another strong quarter for integrity . It reflects an organization that is analytical , efficient and innovative . We are a company that does what we say we're going to do , and we remain focused on driving towards sustainable , world class returns .
Justin Cohen: Thanks, Chris. This was another strong quarter for Ategrity. It reflects an organization that is analytical, efficient, and innovative. We are a company that does what we say we're going to do, and we remain focused on driving towards sustainable world-class returns. For the second quarter in a row, we delivered gross written premium growth more than 20% above the E&S market. As we look toward the fourth quarter, we believe we have the partner engagement, submission flow, and delivery capabilities to achieve that outcome again. Based on the industry's current growth pace, we believe that would translate into roughly 30% year-over-year growth. From a margin perspective, we are aiming to deliver a 90% combined ratio in the fourth quarter. Finally, we look forward to spending time with investors and analysts in the days ahead.
Speaker #2: For the second quarter in a row , we delivered gross written premium growth more than 20 percentage points above the market . As we look toward the fourth quarter , we believe we have the partner engagement submission flow and delivery capabilities to achieve that outcome .
Speaker #2: Again , based on the industry's current growth pace , we believe that would translate into roughly 30% year over year growth from a margin perspective , we are aiming to deliver a 90% combined ratio in the fourth quarter .
Speaker #2: Finally , we look forward to spending time with investors and analysts in the days ahead . In addition to discussing our results and strategy , we would love to hear investor input on balancing additional insider support through open market purchases with the desire to increase public float , we intend to increase our float in the course of time at appropriate valuations .
Justin Cohen: In addition to discussing our results and strategy, we would love to hear investor input on balancing additional insider support through open market purchases with the desire to increase public float. We intend to increase our float in the course of time at appropriate valuations, as other specialty insurance companies have after their IPOs. We greatly care about doing the right thing for investors, so I would appreciate your feedback on this topic. With that, I thank you again for your time and interest in Ategrity. Operator, please open the line for questions.
Speaker #2: As other specialty insurance companies have after their IPOs , we greatly care about doing the right thing for investors . So would appreciate your feedback on this topic .
Speaker #2: With that, I thank you again for your time and interest in integrity. Operator, please open the line for questions.
Speaker #1: At this time , I would like to remind everyone , in order to ask a question , please press star , followed by the number one on your telephone keypad .
Operator: At this time, I would like to remind everyone, in order to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. Your first question comes from the line of Alex Scott with Barclays. Please go ahead.
Speaker #1: Your first question comes from the line of Alex Scott with Barclays. Please go ahead.
Speaker #2: Hey , Alex .
Speaker #5: Hi . Hey . Thanks for taking the question . First one I had is on the property market . And just what you're seeing in the environment on the casualty side , it sounded like some of the things you're doing are pretty bespoke .
[Analyst]: Hey, Alex.
Chris Schenk: Hi. Thanks for taking the question. First one I had is on the property market and just what you're seeing in the environment. On the casualty side, it sounded like some of the things you're doing are pretty bespoke and nuanced. Do you feel like, as we head into 2026, you're going to be able to continue growing in property at the rates you've been growing, though?
Speaker #5: And nuanced . Do you feel like as we head into 2026 , you're going to be able to continue growing in property at the rates you've been growing , though ?
Speaker #2: Yeah . And property , if you'll recall , we talked about last quarter , then the third quarter of 2024 , we began raising rates actually somewhat materially in small to medium sized property in the third quarter of this year .
Justin Cohen: Yeah, in property, if you'll recall, we talked about last quarter, in the third quarter of 2024, we began raising rates actually somewhat materially in small to medium-sized property. In the third quarter of this year, therefore, we lapped those rates. We're not going to get into 2026, but as we're looking forward, you see that we accelerated. You see that we accelerated in this quarter from the growth from last quarter, and we're hopeful that we can achieve the same. It is more of just executing our business model and having now gotten ahead of the curve on pricing.
Speaker #2: Therefore , we lapped those rates . We're not going to get into 2026 . But as we're looking forward , you see that we accelerated .
Speaker #2: Well, you see that we accelerated in this quarter from the growth of last quarter. And we're hopeful that we can achieve the same.
Speaker #2: And it's more of just executing our business model and having now gotten ahead of the curve on pricing .
Speaker #5: That's really helpful . Second thing I wanted to ask you about is just some of the continuing continuation of what you've been doing with technology , but I think it was mentioned earlier on the call that you were looking to advance some of that further and was just interested in some of the things you're working on , some of the areas you might push on the tech front to further what you're doing in the market .
Chris Schenk: That's really helpful. The second thing I wanted to ask you about is just some of the continuation of what you've been doing with technology. I think it was mentioned earlier on the call that you were looking to advance some of that further, and I was just interested in some of the things you're working on, some of the areas you might push on the tech front to further what you're doing in the market.
Speaker #2: Great . I'll pass it over to Chris to talk about some of the innovations that are actually launching now , and others as well .
Justin Cohen: Right. I'll pass that over to Chris Schenk to talk about some of the innovations that are actually launching now and others as well in the future.
Speaker #2: In the future .
Speaker #4: Yeah . So as you know , we've been launching pre priced solutions and some other OCR , AI enabled intake automation processes and a number of different innovations across the business .
Chris Schenk: Yeah, as you know, we've been launching pre-priced solutions and some OCR AI-enabled intake automation processes and a number of different innovations across the business. We have an innovation lab that we funded about a year ago that is now bringing all of these standalone solutions into one single platform. That is going to be a critical unlock for us in the coming quarters. What it does is it makes delivery of innovation much more efficient, and we already have an efficient approach to development. In terms of maintenance of an innovation ecosystem, having everything in one platform allows us to get more value out of it and also enhance it as technology evolves.
Speaker #4: We have a innovation lab that we funded about a year ago that is now bringing all of these standalone solutions into one single platform .
Speaker #4: That is going to be a critical unlock for us in the coming quarters . But what it does , it makes delivery of innovation much more efficient and which we already have an efficient approach to development .
Speaker #4: But in terms of maintenance of an innovation ecosystem , having everything in one platform allows us to get more value out of it .
Speaker #4: And also enhance it as technology evolves .
Speaker #5: I'm very thanks .
Justin Cohen: Got it. Very helpful. Thanks.
Speaker #2: Thanks , Alex .
Chris Schenk: Thanks, Alex.
Speaker #1: Your next question comes from the line of Pablo Singson with JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Pablo Singzon with J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.
Speaker #6: Hi . Good evening with the employment picture and small business optimism softening a bit . Have you seen any change in the economic health of your clients ?
[Analyst]: Hi. Good evening. With the employment picture and small business optimism softening a bit, have you seen any change in the economic health of your clients?
Speaker #2: We have not seen any direct change , but it really matters . Vertical by vertical .
Justin Cohen: We have not seen any direct change, but it really matters vertical by vertical.
Speaker #4: Yeah. So, in summary, you mentioned a change in our clients.
Chris Schenk: Yeah, in a small, you said change in our clients?
Speaker #2: Yeah . The end .
Speaker #4: Client . Then clients . Yeah . So you know there is a dynamic of what we call nano accounts . Nano accounts are accounts that , you know , they're very they're priced at admitted market pricing .
Justin Cohen: Yeah, the end clients.
Chris Schenk: The end clients, yeah. There is a dynamic of what we call nano accounts. Nano accounts are accounts that, you know, they're very, they're priced at admitted market pricing. Let's say a small business with sub-$1,000 pricing. That business is always, you know, in between E&S and admitted, and there is some pulling back of it into the admitted space. Sometimes a lot of that business also goes away. It has never been core to us, and they don't provide really good economics because lower retention and, you know, they could be volatile. We are seeing that sort of disappearance again of the nano accounts. It's not a lot of premium. It can be volume.
Speaker #4: So let's say a small business with sub $1,000 pricing . That business is always , you know , in between E and INS and admitted and you know , there is some pulling back of it into the limited space .
Speaker #4: Sometimes a lot that business also go away . So it has never been core to us . And don't provide really good economics because lower retention and you know they could be volatile .
Speaker #4: So we are seeing that sort of disappearance again of the nano accounts. There's not a lot of premium; it can be volume.
Speaker #2: But in terms of that , you know , we are two degrees removed from our end clients . But we do study that and we study the economy .
Justin Cohen: In terms of the, you know, we are two degrees removed from our end clients, but we do study that, and we study the economy. We talked about last quarter how each of our verticals has a different sensitivity, but overall, we have not seen any material change in our end clients' financial and economic health.
Speaker #2: We we talked about last quarter how each of our verticals has a different sensitivity . But overall we have not seen any material change in our end , clients financial and economic health .
Speaker #4: Yeah . So what you know , where we are seeing some change in consumer preference or insured preferences is in the midsize middle market , clients .
Chris Schenk: Yeah. What, you know, where we are seeing some change in consumer preference or insured preferences is in the mid-size middle-market clients. Think of a family real estate investment firm, five apartment buildings. They're now facing tougher lending requirements from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Banks are scrutinizing their financing. Meanwhile, there is regulatory uncertainty that's being driven by adoption of building codes on the property side, as well as, you know, some things like even the New York City municipal elections, which would affect housing and real estate development. You have all these dynamics. They are really attentive to coverage. I've had the privilege of meeting some of our retailers and actually some end insurers over the last quarter, and that's what I'm hearing from them. They're worried about these developments and how they will affect coverage.
Speaker #4: So think of a family real estate investment firm , five apartment buildings . They're now facing tougher lending requirements from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac .
Speaker #4: Banks are scrutinizing their financing . Meanwhile , there is regulatory uncertainty that is being driven by adoption of building codes on the property side , as well as , you know , some things like even the New York City municipal elections , which would affect housing and real estate development .
Speaker #4: So you have all these dynamics . So they are really attentive to coverage . So I've had the privilege of meeting some of our retailers and actually some some end insurers over the last quarter .
Speaker #4: And that's what I'm hearing from them . They they they're worried about these developments and how they will affect coverage .
Speaker #2: Yep .
[Analyst]: Okay, thanks. My second question, the submission volumes, interesting data point there. Are you able to process and quote as much of those submissions as you're seeing, or is there any bottleneck in your operations right now?
Speaker #6: Okay . Thanks . And then my second question , the submission volumes , interesting data point there . Are you able to process and code as much of those submissions as you're seeing .
Speaker #6: Or is there any bottleneck in your operations right now ?
Speaker #2: No . We are we have a very efficient operation . And that's been part of our story , is to be able to handle this kind of volume .
Justin Cohen: No, we have a very efficient operation, and that's been part of our story, to be able to handle this kind of volume. We've done it, and we talked about during the IPO process how we had front-loaded the investments ahead of growth to be able to manage these. One thing we have done is we've been very conservative about the box in our underwriting appetite. Chris, you want to talk about that? Yeah. On the underwriting, the restriction. Ultimately, what you're seeing is lower hit rates for our business or stable hit rates at relatively low levels, which really speaks to the conservatism of what we're doing. We can handle this volume.
Speaker #2: And we've done it. We talked about during the IPO process how we had front-loaded the investments ahead of growth to be able to manage these.
Speaker #2: One thing we have done is we've been very conservative about the box and our underwriting appetite. Do you want to talk about that?
Speaker #4: Yeah . So .
Speaker #2: I on the the underwriting sorry the restriction ultimately what we're what you're seeing is a lower lower hit rates for our business or stable hit rates at a at at relatively low levels , which really speaks to the conservatism of what we're doing .
Speaker #2: But we can handle this volume .
Speaker #4: And yeah , sorry . Yeah . So in one of the in my comments , I said also quote volumes went up . Right .
Chris Schenk: Yeah, sorry. In one of the, in my comments, I said also quote volumes went up, right? That is, I think that's a really strong story for us because we have been investing in the technology capability to handle high volume at the top of the funnel. The top of the funnel being submissions, right, where you need to sort through a lot. Not everything is going to fit the box, and we have been tightening the box in each of our channels. We are able to, we were able to handle and absorb that volume with significantly lower relative cost. When it comes to quotes, our streamlined quoting process for the small to medium-sized, the low medium-sized accounts, which is our simplified productionized underwriting where we're looking at the essential things that matter for the risk at hand and not following the industry's randomness, if you will.
Speaker #4: That is I think that's a really strong story for us because we have been investing in the technology capability to handle high volume at the top of the funnel , the top of the funnel being submissions right where you need to sort through a lot .
Speaker #4: Not everything is going to fit the box . And we have been tightening the box in each of our channels . So we are able to we were able to handle and absorb that volume with , you know , significantly lower relative cost and and when it comes to quotes , our streamlined quoting process for the small to medium size to low medium size accounts , you know , which is our simplified productionized underwriting where we're looking at the things that matters for the risk at hand and not , you know , following the industry's , you know , randomness , if you will .
Speaker #4: You know , for that category , we were able to , you know , crank through a lot of quotes with the resources we had in place .
Chris Schenk: For that category, we were able to crank through a lot of quotes with the resources we had in place.
Speaker #6: Thanks for your answers .
[Analyst]: Thanks for your answers.
Speaker #2: Thanks , Pablo .
Chris Schenk: Thanks, Pablo.
Speaker #1: Your next question comes from the line of Elise Greenspan with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Elise Greenspan with Wells Fargo Securities. Please go ahead.
Speaker #2: Hey , Elyse .
[Analyst]: Hey, Elise.
Speaker #7: Hi . Thanks . My first question . You know , within the fourth quarter guide , right ? You guys said that you expect to , you know , continue to grow about 20% above the industry .
[Analyst]: Hi, thanks. My first question, within the Q4 guide, you guys said that you expect to continue to grow about 20% above the industry. Is that a target, like when we think out to 2026, 2027, and beyond? Is that something that you guys think you can kind of hit on a consistent basis?
Speaker #7: Is that a target ? Like when we think out to 26 , 27 and beyond , is that something that you guys think , you know , you can kind of hit on a consistent basis ?
Speaker #2: So thanks for that question . We're not going to talk about 26 guidance . But this is the way we think about the business .
Justin Cohen: Thank you for that question. We're not going to talk about 2026 guidance, but this is the way we think about the business. As we come to the next quarter, you'll hear from us and how we describe how we expect to take share, and we measure that in outsized growth relative to the market. We obviously think we have a big runway here. Our network continues to grow, and we have lots of not only our existing growth initiatives that you've been hearing about are still in early days. We also have new growth initiatives in the pipeline that are to come. These, as you heard, these types of growth opportunities are really truly proprietary to us, and therefore we think we have an edge to be able to continue taking share in the market.
Speaker #2: And you can, as we come to the next quarter, you'll hear from us on how we expect to take share.
Speaker #2: And we measure that in outsized growth relative to the market . We obviously think we have a big runway here . Our network continues to grow , and we have lots of not only our existing growth initiatives that you've been that you've been hearing about are still in early days .
Speaker #2: We also have new growth initiatives in the pipeline that are to come . These , as you heard , these are these type of growth opportunities are really , truly proprietary to us .
Speaker #2: And therefore we think we have an edge to be able to continue taking share in the market . .
Speaker #7: And then the fee income , right piece continues to grow a little bit . Over 2 million in the quarter . And I think right , just around 2.4 points , a concha on the expense ratio is that , you know , how do we think about modeling going forward ?
[Analyst]: The fee income piece continues to grow, a little bit over $2 million in the quarter, and I think just around 2.4 points a contra on the expense ratio. Is that, you know, how do we think about modeling going forward, you know, just relative to the fee income contribution?
Speaker #7: You know , just just relative to the fee income contribution .
Speaker #2: Yep . The fees can be variable depending on the type of business that we write in the quarter . This happened to be a quarter that lined up for higher fees .
Justin Cohen: The fees can be variable depending on the type of business that we write in the quarter. This happened to be a quarter that lined up for higher fees. We think that we'll even guide to here that as we look to Q4, we think the number would be more like $1.5 million. Furthermore, when you think about how you model that as well, there are direct third-party expenses that go along with those fees. It's not just a pure top line adjustment.
Speaker #2: We think that it will even guide to hear that as we look to Q4 , we think the number would be more like a million and a half .
Speaker #2: But furthermore , when you think about how you model that as well , there are direct third party expenses that go along with those fees .
Speaker #2: So it's not just a pure top line adjustment .
Speaker #7: So it's .
Chris Schenk: It's really important to understand there's a service at the end of the fee, right? If the service is required for the insured at hand, that's when we charge it. Depending on what we're writing, you know, it's not premium-driven. It's volume-driven.
Speaker #4: It's really important to understand there's a service at the end of the fee . Right . So if the service is required for to insured at hand , that's when we charge it .
Speaker #4: So depending on what we're writing , you know it's not premium driven . It's volume driven .
Speaker #7: That makes sense . And then from a from a loss ratio perspective it doesn't sound like there was anything one off in the loss ratio .
[Analyst]: That makes sense. From a loss ratio perspective, it doesn't sound like there was anything one-off in the loss ratio. Obviously, some shifting with mix shift towards casualty, but anything within the loss ratio? I know there was no PYD and a small amount of CATs, but anything else you would call out in the quarter?
Speaker #7: Obviously, there was some shifting with a mix shift towards casualty. But anything within the loss ratio—I know there was no prior year development (PYD) and a small amount of catastrophes (cats)—but anything else you would call out in the quarter?
Speaker #2: No , I would just describe that . If you're looking at our zakat ratios , for example , and you will see that they there was some increases there .
Justin Cohen: No, I would just describe that if you're looking at our ex-CAT ratios, for example, you will see that there were some increases there. This is really all associated with conservatism in property. We have had a lower, effectively a lower amount of claims, but as a public company, we are not taking any risk in terms of late claims coming in. We have booked at higher losses. That's really the dynamic that you're seeing there. Conservatism in our property.
Speaker #2: This is really all associated with conservatism in property . And so we have we have had a lower effectively a lower amount of claims .
Speaker #2: But as a public company , we are not taking any risk in terms of late claims coming in . So we have booked at a at higher losses .
Speaker #2: So that's really the dynamic that you're seeing there: conservatism in our property.
Speaker #7: And with the conservatism and property, would you settle that in the fourth quarter, like in the current year, or if there's favorable development, or would that be something you would think about next year?
[Analyst]: With the conservatism in property, would you settle that in the fourth quarter, like in the current year, or if there's favorable development, or would that be something you would think about next year?
Speaker #2: Really , it really is rolling and it's really actuarial based . And so we leave that to our our head of reserving to do that .
Justin Cohen: It really is rolling, and it's really actuarial-based. We leave that to our Head of Reserving to do that and look at it on a claim-by-claim basis as well as the trends and the expected downside in terms of late reported claims.
Speaker #2: And look at it on a claim by claim basis , as well as the trends and the expected downside in terms of late reported claims .
Speaker #7: Thank you .
[Analyst]: Thank you.
Speaker #2: Thank you . Elise .
Justin Cohen: Thank you, Elise.
Speaker #1: Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Kligerman with TD Cowan . Please go ahead .
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Clygerman with TD Securities. Please go ahead.
Speaker #8: Hey .
Speaker #9: Justin , I think you guided to just a little while ago did like a 90 combined in the next quarter . And I was I thought that the expense ratios were particularly compelling , particularly the operating expense ratio at 10.8 .
[Analyst]: Hey, Justin, I think you guided to just a little while ago to like a 90 combined in the next quarter. I thought that the expense ratios were particularly compelling, particularly the operating expense ratio at 10.8, but the acquisition expense ratio looked better than I had expected as well. Should we be looking at the overall expense ratio at about 29%, maybe a touch less than that as a run rate in that 90 combined ratio that you just cited?
Speaker #9: But the acquisition expense ratio look better than I had expected as well . Should we be looking at the overall expense ratio at about 29% ?
Speaker #9: Maybe a touch less than that is a run rate in that 90 combined ratio that you just cited .
Speaker #2: Yeah , that is not far from it . We there will be some small benefits coming through on the ratio sequentially , but that is going to be an overtime type situation on a gross basis .
Justin Cohen: Yeah, that is not far from it. There will be some small benefits coming through on the commission ratio sequentially, but that is going to be an overtime type situation. On a gross basis, there are strengths there. Remember also that we have the quota share rolling off, which is going to provide more income to us, but that will be an offset as we move forward as well. With the operating expense ratio, with the adjustment in fees, there will be a tick up in the fourth quarter, but we are very enthusiastic about our ability to continue to drive operating leverage over time. Those are some of the dynamics there, and that would lead to that 90% combined.
Speaker #2: It is there . There are strengths . There . Remember also that we have the quota share rolling off , which is going to provide more income to us .
Speaker #2: But that will be an offset as as we move forward as well . And then with the operating expense ratio with the adjustment in fees , there will be a tick up in the fourth quarter .
Speaker #2: But we are very enthusiastic about our ability to continue to drive operating leverage over time . And so those are some of the dynamics there .
Speaker #2: And that would that would lead to that 90% combined . .
Speaker #9: Got it . That was helpful . And yeah , I mean pretty exciting . 70% increase in submissions . And I know earlier you were talking about the hit ratio not being super high , but what I'm kind of interested in is the the expansion of your distribution network and the type of expansion .
[Analyst]: Got it. That was helpful. Yeah, I mean, pretty exciting, 70% increase in submissions. I know earlier you were talking about the hit ratio not being super high. What I'm kind of interested in is the expansion of your distribution network and the type of expansion. Is this coming mostly from the brokers as opposed to the agents that are doing kind of smaller ticket stuff? Maybe a little color around the type of distribution expansion you're seeing more of.
Speaker #9: Is this coming mostly from the brokers as opposed to the agents that are doing kind of smaller ticket stuff ? Like maybe a little a little color around the type of distribution expansion you're seeing more of .
Speaker #2: Yep . It is very broad based across both brokers and agents , and it also weighs in with our growth initiatives , which are we're obviously opening new relationships for these growth initiatives .
Justin Cohen: Yep, it is very broad-based across both brokers and agents, and it also weighs in with our growth initiatives, which are we're obviously opening new relationships for these growth initiatives. Pass it over to Chris Schenk to talk further about the details there.
Speaker #2: Pass it over to Chris to talk further about the the details there .
Speaker #4: So we are attractive . We are attracting , you know , sort of a broad spectrum of agents and brokers who focus on the small and medium size risk that we that we are aligned to .
Chris Schenk: We're attracting a broad spectrum of agents and brokers who focus on the small and medium-sized risk that we are aligned to, plus those who have access to unique geographies such as the Midwest. It's really exciting to watch the numbers come in on our Midwest strategy because these are partners who are in South Dakota, and you may not think how many of our peers would maybe not even visit them. We have, and we have built a strong relationship and explained the value proposition, and it's appealing. That's one demographic that's driving it. The other demographic is really what we've talked about before. It's the digital native brokers. It is that new generation of brokers who are a little bit fed up with the way the business is transacted in this space.
Speaker #4: Plus those who have access to unique geographies such as the Midwest . So it's really exciting to watch the numbers come in on our Midwest strategy because , you know , these are partners who are you know , they're in South Dakota and you may not think many of our peers would , you know , maybe not even visit them .
Speaker #4: And we have and we have built a strong relationship and explained the value proposition . It's appealing . So that's one demographic that's driving it .
Speaker #4: The other demographic is really what we've talked about before. It's the digital native brokers. It is that new generation of brokers who are a little bit fed up with the way the business is.
Speaker #4: Business is transacted in this space , and , you know , five days waiting , five days to hear back if you're even going to get a quote is just not working for them .
Chris Schenk: Waiting five days to hear back if you're even going to get a quote is just not working for them. We're able to offer something that is appealing. There's a lot of enthusiasm there. Then there is what we call your sort of more established brokers within the larger agencies, within the larger brokerages who really value just the straightforwardness of what we're offering to the market. They know what they're getting. They've gone through cycles. They've seen the gimmicks, and they're kind of over it. When you can speak plainly to them and say, "This is what we offer. This is what we don't do," it works.
Speaker #4: We are able to offer something , you know , that is appealing . I , there's a lot of enthusiasm there . And , and then , you know , there is your , you know , what we call your your sort of more established brokers within the larger agencies .
Speaker #4: I would the larger brokerages who really value just the straightforwardness of what we're offering to the market . They they know what they're getting .
Speaker #4: You know , they have gone through cycles . They've seen seen the gimmicks . And , you know , they're kind of over it .
Speaker #4: And when you can speak plainly to them and say , this is what we offer , this is what we don't do , it works .
Speaker #9: Got it . And maybe if I could just sneak one more in , I was on the Chubb call this morning and they talked about pricing being , you know , particularly soft in property in the large end of the market .
[Analyst]: Got it. Maybe if I could just sneak one more in. I was on the Chubb call this morning, and they talked about pricing being, you know, particularly soft in property in the large end of the market. Now it's kind of seeped into the larger end of mid. The lower end of mid just hasn't gotten there yet, and certainly not in small per their commentary as well as many others. My question to you is, how are you thinking about pricing down the road? Do you think your small business and maybe the lower end of mid will hold up for a long period of time, or do you see this pricing pressure seeping in eventually and maybe sooner than later?
Speaker #9: And now it's kind of seeped into the larger end of mid, but the lower end of mid just hasn't gotten there yet.
Speaker #9: And certainly not in small part due to commentary as well as many others. So my question to you is, how are you thinking about pricing down the road?
Speaker #9: Do you think do you think you're small , small business and maybe the lower end of mid will hold up for a long period of time ?
Speaker #9: Or do you see this pricing pressure seeping in eventually and maybe sooner than later .
Speaker #2: Thanks . Thanks , Andrew . We are endeavoring not to make a market call here . We are what we are seeing is we are getting mid to high single digit rate increases in property , which is in our space , which is really quite good .
Justin Cohen: Thanks, Andrew. We are endeavoring not to make a market call here. What we are seeing is we are getting mid to high single-digit rate increases in property, which is in our space, which is really quite good. You'll remember that we mentioned earlier that we had had higher rate increases that we've anniversaried, but we're getting solid rates.
Speaker #2: You'll remember that we mentioned earlier that we had higher rate increases that we've anniversary, but we're getting solid rates.
Speaker #4: Yeah . So you know pricing is one of those corner foundation stones for us , you know , technical pricing , cost charging , the cost of product is essential .
Chris Schenk: Yeah, so you know pricing is one of those foundation stones for us. You know, technical pricing is charging the cost of product is essential. I mentioned product, and that's becoming more and more the requirement. It's not optional for the insured, right? There's been this hypothesis that, you know, it's all about pricing. Customers don't care about coverage once they're in E&S. That's not the case anymore because there's a mandate. There's a requirement at a federal level. I'll give you, if you'll indulge me, a very obscure example that is really impactful in what's happening in the industry right now. Nobody else is thinking about it, which is a problem. There are new national electrical codes that were established in 2023. They have to do with things like basically gratifying of buildings, right?
Speaker #4: So I mentioned product . And that's becoming more and more the requirement . It is it's not optional for the insured . Right .
Speaker #4: So, there's been this hypothesis that, you know, it's all about pricing. Customers don't care about coverage once they're in insurance. Well, that's not the case anymore because there's a mandate.
Speaker #4: There's a requirement that federal level . So I'll give you an if you'll indulge me , I'll give you a very obscure example that is really impactful in what's happening in the industry right now .
Speaker #4: Is nobody else is thinking about it , which is a problem . So there were there's new natural national electrical codes that were established in 2023 .
Speaker #4: They have to do with things like basically green of buildings , right . So when there's a coverage under property ordinance and law where you have to , you know , effectively use coverage for bringing buildings back up to code once they are repaired .
Chris Schenk: When there's a coverage under property ordinance and law where you have to effectively lease coverage for bringing buildings back up to code once they are repaired, these new requirements are driving up the requirements for ordinance and law. People might say the property market is soft, but someone is going to get a loan, and they need to now have 25% of their building value towards ordinance and law. When you start talking about coverage and when it's required, they're going to pay a premium for that because they need the loan. In that mid space, I don't see the soft market or a perceived soft market filtering up. I see actually maybe a hardening in that space because of lending requirements.
Speaker #4: Well, these new requirements are driving up the requirements for ordinance and law. So, people might say the property market is soft, but someone is going to get a loan, and they now need to have 25% of their building value allocated towards ordinance alone.
Speaker #4: So when you start talking about coverage and what is required , they're going to pay a premium for that because they need the loan .
Speaker #4: So it's not a , you know , in that mid-space it's not a I don't see the soft market or a perceived soft market filtering up .
Speaker #4: I see actually maybe a hardening in that space because of lending requirements.
Speaker #9: Very interesting . Thank you for that .
[Analyst]: Very interesting. Thank you for that.
Speaker #1: The next question comes from the line of Matthew Heimerman with City . Please go ahead .
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Matthew Heimerman with Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Speaker #9: Hey , Matt everybody . Hi a couple quick ones . I think just it's not like you're growing property very rapidly relative to total .
[Analyst]: Hi again, everybody. Hi. A couple of quick ones, I think. It's not like you're growing property very rapidly relative to total, but I'm just curious, at what point, how much more growth before we'd have to think about reinsurance structures changing relative to how you've historically articulated PMLs and other risk tolerance metrics?
Speaker #9: But I'm just curious , does at what how much more growth before we'd have to think about reinsurance structures changing relative to how you historically articulated PML and other risk tolerance metrics ?
Speaker #2: Yeah . No . If you recall , we we operate a limited cat strategy . And so we are not exposing ourselves to incremental amounts of Cat risk .
Justin Cohen: If you'll recall, we operate a limited CAT strategy, and we are not exposing ourselves to incremental amounts of CAT risk. Our growth is manageable here, and it's well within the context of our existing reinsurance contracts.
Speaker #2: And our growth is manageable here, and it's well within the context of our existing reinsurance contracts.
Speaker #9: Okay . And that's and that's just tying the or connecting the dots . That's a lot of the property growth . You talked about getting was going to come out of the Midwest strategy .
[Analyst]: Okay. That's just tying the or connecting the dots. That's a lot of the property growth you had talked about getting was going to come out of Midwest strategy, and that's effectively what we're seeing at this point.
Speaker #9: And that's effectively what we're seeing at this point .
Speaker #2: Yeah .
Speaker #4: Yeah . Yeah . So we've talked about our geospatial spread approach to writing property . That's really coming through in the Midwest . You know , they're they're are about 730 hamlets .
Chris Schenk: Yeah, yeah. We had talked about our geospatial spread approach to writing property. That's really coming through in the Midwest. There are about 730 hamlets, I'll call them, across the Midwest where we never had a footprint, and we are now writing business there. Those are large spaces where we are spread out, right? That geospatial spread element is coming through as we win in the Midwest. The Midwest, as I mentioned, along with some other initiatives, was responsible for about 50% of our growth, and that was particularly strong in property. We're not adding in Florida. That's the thing. We're not adding in Texas. We're not only adding in Texas and Florida, rather. It's everywhere.
Speaker #4: I'll call them in across the Midwest where , you know , we never had a footprint . And , you know , we are now writing business there .
Speaker #4: Those are large spaces where we are spread out . Right . So that that geospatial spread element is coming through as we win in the Midwest , the Midwest , as I mentioned , was responding along with some other initiatives , was responsible for about 50% of our growth .
Speaker #4: And that was particularly strong in properties. So we're not adding in Florida. That's the thing. We're not adding in Texas.
Speaker #4: We're not we're not we're not only adding in Texas and Florida , rather we are . It's everywhere .
Speaker #9: Okay . That's good . As a Minnesota kid , I never really thought about my backyard as being English countryside , but I appreciate the .
[Analyst]: Okay, that's good. As a Minnesota kid, I never really thought about my backyard as being English countryside, but I appreciate the compare. A couple of other questions I have was just, can you give us any sense of just kind of what the growth rates look by maybe the premium cohorts? Because, you know, you add a couple, you know, brokerage clients through your digital channel with a small agent in the Midwest, right? Like that's a disproportionate kind of impact. I'm just wondering if there's another lens on growth kind of by account size or cohorts.
Speaker #2: Compare .
Speaker #9: The other question a couple other questions I have was just , can you give us any sense of just kind of what the growth rates look by maybe the , the premium cohorts because , you know , you add a couple , you know , brokerage clients through your digital channel with a small agent in the Midwest , right .
Speaker #9: Like, that's a disproportionate kind of impact. I'm just wondering if there's another lens on growth, kind of by account size or cohorts.
Speaker #2: Yeah . The the account size bands have not changed meaningfully in any way . We have , as Chris mentioned earlier , we've written less of these nano accounts , but we're also writing small midsized accounts .
Justin Cohen: Yeah. The account size bands have not changed meaningfully in any way. As Chris Schenk mentioned earlier, we've written less of these nano accounts, but we're also writing small mid-sized accounts. There are offsets there. Overall, the bands themselves are not changing very much.
Speaker #2: So those are their offsets there. So really overall the bands themselves are not changing very much.
Speaker #9: Okay . That's helpful . And I guess the last one is , well , two one numbers question quick was just can you give the can you split the utility income disclosure in the press release between kind of income and market or sorry , the in your investment income disclosure , can you split the utility income between income and marks .
[Analyst]: Okay. That's helpful. I guess the last one is, one numbers question quick was just, can you give the, can you split the utility income disclosure in the press release between kind of income and marks, or sorry, in your investment income disclosure, can you split the utility income between income and marks?
Speaker #2: Yep . It's less than 100 K net in core NII for the utility . And infrastructure investments in NII . Are you asking for further split in the realized and unrealized gains ?
Justin Cohen: Yep. It's less than $100,000 net in core NII for the utility and infrastructure investments in NII. Are you asking for further split in the realized and unrealized gains?
Speaker #9: No . If I've got that , I can , I can I think I can back that out of the utility and then I can wait for the the Q for the rest .
[Analyst]: No, if I've got that, I think I can back that out of the utility, and then I can wait for the queue for the rest. Thank you. The other question was just, can you elaborate? You used this term improved economics, and it wasn't clear as I was listening, and maybe I didn't hear what you were trying to say. In your opening comments, you talked about improved economics in the quarter, and it implied more than just kind of what's happening with the expense ratio. I just wondered if you could revisit that, if there's anything you'd embellish or clarify there.
Speaker #9: Thank you . The other question was just can you elaborate ? You used this term improved economics , and it wasn't clear as I was listening and maybe I didn't hear what you were trying to say , but in your opening comments you talked about improved economics in the quarter and is and it implied more than just kind of what's happening with the expense ratio .
Speaker #9: But I just wondered if you could revisit that if there's any anything you would embellish or clarify there .
Speaker #2: Yeah , we were referring to the holistic nature of now that we have scale in brokerage , that as we're writing more business in brokerage , that is accretive to our bottom line , and you're seeing that in the commission ratio , you're you can see it in the expense ratio , but you can't exactly see how that's coming through .
Justin Cohen: Yeah, we were referring to the holistic nature of now that we have scale in brokerage, that as we're writing more business in brokerage, that is accretive to our bottom line. You're seeing that in the commission ratio, you can see it in the expense ratio, but you can't exactly see how that's coming through, but that's what's happening.
Speaker #2: But that's that's what's happening .
Speaker #9: That's I was trying .
[Analyst]: No, that's helpful. I was trying to contrast it with your rate comment, and it wasn't obvious from that that that would have in and of itself explained it. Okay, thank you for that.
Speaker #2: To .
Speaker #9: Contrast it with your rate comment. And it didn't, it wasn't obvious from that that that would have in and of itself explained it.
Speaker #9: So okay . Thank you for that .
Speaker #4: To acquire an account and historic.
Chris Schenk: That's just for me to acquire an account and just do it.
Speaker #2: Yeah .
Speaker #8: Yeah .
Justin Cohen: Okay. Thanks, everyone. Have a good night.
Speaker #9: Okay . Thanks everyone . Have a good night .
Speaker #2: Thank you .
[Analyst]: Thank you.
Speaker #1: Your last question comes from the line of Alex Scott with Barclays. Please go ahead.
Operator: Your last question comes from the line of Alex Scott with Barclays. Please go ahead.
Speaker #10: Hey, guys. Thanks for taking the follow-up. I just wanted to see if you could give any color on products that you may be referring to.
Chris Schenk: Hey, guys. Thanks for taking the follow-up. I just wanted to see if you could give any color on products that you may be prepping to expand into the brokerage area by going up market a bit. Can you talk about if you have any of that kind of activity going on over the next six months or so?
Speaker #5: Prepping to expand into the brokerage area , like going up market a bit . Can you talk about if you have any of that kind of activity going on over the next six months or so ?
Speaker #2: Right . In terms of the this question of upmarket , what you've seen , we don't think of it that way . We're what we've done in the past .
Justin Cohen: Right. In terms of this question of up market, what you've seen, we don't think of it that way. What we've done in the past six months is we have taken products and verticals that we underwrite, and we have opened them in the brokerage channel. Those are paying off, and we're going to continue to pay those, have those work over the next several quarters. Anything else, Chris, you'd like to add to that on product?
Speaker #2: Six months ago, we took products and verticals that we underwrite and opened them in the brokerage channel. Those are paying off, and we are going to continue to pay those and have those work over the next several quarters.
Speaker #2: Anything else you’d like to add on the product?
Speaker #4: Yeah . So we launched a retail vertical . Most recently in brokerage as an example of what's to come in terms of product launches .
Chris Schenk: Yeah, we launched a retail trade vertical most recently in brokerage as an example of what's to come. In terms of true product launches, nothing on the roadmap that we can discuss now. What we are continuously doing for the microsegments we're in, we are genuinely studying the external environment and trying to model out those cause and effect scenarios and optimize our offering within each of those verticals. When we think of product, we don't think about doing more products. We think about really meeting the evolving needs of these markets that we're already in, and that's a huge opportunity for us. Very helpful. Thank you, guys.
Speaker #4: Nothing on the roadmap that we can discuss now . And what we are continuously doing though , for the micro segments we're in , we are genuinely studying the external environment and trying to model out those cause and effect scenarios and optimize our offering within each of those verticals .
Speaker #4: So when we think of our product, we don't think about doing more products. We think about really meeting the evolving needs of these markets.
Speaker #4: These markets that we're already in . And that's a huge opportunity for us .
Speaker #5: Very helpful. Thank you, guys.
Speaker #2: Thank you .
Justin Cohen: Thank you.
Speaker #1: There are no further questions at this time. Management, do you have any closing remarks?
Operator: There are no further questions at this time. Management, do you have any closing remarks?
Speaker #2: No. We just want to thank everyone for joining and listening, and we look forward to catching up with many of you in the days ahead.
Justin Cohen: No, we just want to thank everyone for joining and listening, and we look forward to catching up with many of you in the days ahead. Take care.
Speaker #2: Take care .
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining, and you may now disconnect.