Q3 2025 PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust Earnings Call
Speaker #1: Good afternoon and welcome to PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust's third quarter 2020 earnings call. Additional earnings materials, including the presentation slides that will be referred to during the call, are available on PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust's website at PMT.
Speaker #1: Before we begin, let me remind you that this call may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to certain risks identified on slide two of the earnings presentation.
Speaker #1: That could cause the company's actual results to differ materially, as well as non-GAAP measures that have been reconciled to their GAAP equivalent in the earnings materials.
Speaker #1: Now, I'd like to introduce David Spector, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust, and Daniel Perotti, Chief Financial Officer of PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust.
Speaker #2: Thank you, operator. In the third quarter, PMT produced outstanding results and growth in book value per share, with a 14% annualized return on common equity.
Speaker #2: Net income to common shareholders was $48 million , and earnings per share was $0.55 , with strong performance across all investment strategies , EMT declared a third quarter common dividend of $0.40 per share and book value per share on September 30th was $15.16 , up from $15 at June 30th .
Speaker #2: Dan will talk about its third-quarter financial results in more detail later on in the presentation. On slide five, I want to start by reminding everyone about the synergistic relationship with PFC and how important that is to providing PMT with unique and competitive advantages.
Speaker #2: First , PMT leverages Fsi's best in class operating platform , including its deep and experienced management team , scaled servicing operations and its large and agile multichannel origination business , which provides PMT with a consistent and high quality pipeline of loans for investment .
Speaker #2: Second , PMT is able to efficiently deploy capital into long term mortgage assets without the operational burdens associated with origination and servicing . And third , Fsi's deep access to the origination market , coupled with its ability to execute private label securitizations , provides PMT with the unique opportunity to invest in organically created investments with attractive risk adjusted returns .
Speaker #2: As PFC further grows its overall share of loan production, PMT is.
Speaker #3: Ladies and gentlemen, please stand by.
Speaker #1: Ladies and gentlemen, please stand by.
Speaker #2: I want to apologize for the technical . I want to apologize for the technical difficulties . Why don't I start from the beginning ?
Speaker #2: In the third quarter, PMT produced outstanding results and growth in book value per share, with a 14% annualized return on common equity.
Speaker #2: Net income to common shareholders was $48 million , and earnings per share was $0.55 , with strong performance across all investment strategies , N.a declared a third quarter common dividend of $0.40 per share and book value per share on September 30th was $15.16 , up from $15 at June 30th .
Speaker #2: Dan will talk about its third-quarter financial results in more detail later on in the presentation. On slide five, I want to start by reminding everyone about the synergistic relationship with PFC and how important that is to providing PMT with unique and competitive advantages.
Speaker #2: First , BMT leverages PFC best in class operating platform , including its deep and experienced management team , scaled servicing operations and its large and agile multichannel origination business , which provides PMT with a consistent and high quality pipeline of loans for investment .
Speaker #2: Second , PMT is able to efficiently deploy capital into long term mortgage assets without the operational burdens associated with origination and servicing . And third , PFC deep access to the origination market , coupled with its ability to execute private label securitizations , provides PMT with the unique opportunity to invest in organically created investments with with attractive risk adjusted returns .
Speaker #2: As FSSAI further grows its overall share of loan production, PMT is expected to have even more opportunities to organically grow its portfolio.
Speaker #2: As can be seen on slide six , the increasing volume of Non-owner-occupied and jumbo loans generated by the Pennymac platform underscores the potential for future investment , and this growing pipeline of loans provides us with flexibility and optionality , allowing us to strategically invest in assets that align with our long term return objectives .
Speaker #2: In the third quarter, we successfully completed three securitizations of agency-eligible investor loans totaling $1.2 billion in UPB, retaining $93 million of new investments.
Speaker #2: We also completed our second consecutive quarterly jumbo loan securitization, with a total of UPB of $300 million and retained investments of $45 million.
Speaker #2: After quarter end , we completed one additional investor and one additional jumbo securitization . And finally , we priced our inaugural securitization of agency eligible owner occupied loans .
Speaker #2: This securitization is particularly significant as it effectively mirrors the strategy of our historical GSE lender risk share transactions. In those prior risk share transactions, we invested in the credit risk associated with high-quality conventional loan production delivered to Fannie Mae.
Speaker #2: Similarly, in our most recent transaction, we are investing in the credit risk on the same type of high-quality conventional loans.
Speaker #2: All of these transactions highlight our ability to leverage our production and securitization capabilities to create high-quality assets for the PMTS portfolio, consistent with its long-term investment strategy.
Speaker #2: The graphic on the right side of the slide highlights our rapid ascent to become a leading issuer of private label securitizations. In recent periods, we've been a top three issuer of prime non-agency MBS.
Speaker #2: In fact, since the fourth quarter of 2024 through today, we successfully completed 16 securitizations totaling $5.7 billion in UPB, with retained investments of more than $460 million.
Speaker #2: This consistent cadence of securitizations underscores our commitment to leveraging our organic investment creation abilities and remaining a leader in the private-label securitization market.
Speaker #2: Targeted returns on equity for these investments are expected to be in the low to mid-teens, and we believe that over time, these new investments will continue to improve.
Speaker #2: PMT's overall return profile. Turning to slide seven, approximately 60% of PMT shareholders' equity is currently invested in a seasoned portfolio of MSRs and the unique GSE lender risk share transactions.
Speaker #2: We invested in from 2015 to 2020 . These are highly stable and seasoned assets with strong underlying fundamentals . Our MSR investments account for approximately 46% of our deployed equity , down from a high point of 56% late in 2022 .
Speaker #2: The majority of these mortgages underlying these MSRs remain far out of the money, with a weighted average coupon of 3.9%, meaning borrowers have little incentive to refinance.
Speaker #2: Underlying these MSRs also have a low weighted average current loan-to-value ratio of approximately 53%. As a result, we expect the MSR asset to continue producing stable cash flows over an extended period of time.
Speaker #2: Furthermore, PMTs continue to benefit from the higher interest rate environment, as the fee income PMT receives on custodial balances is closely tied to short-term interest rates.
Speaker #2: Similarly, PMTs unique credit risk transfer investments, representing 14% of shareholders' equity, are backed by seasoned loans with strong fundamentals that were originated during periods of low interest rates.
Speaker #2: Delinquencies have remained low on this portfolio as well . This positive borrower performance can be attributed to the overall credit strength of the consumer , combined with the substantial cumulation of home equity in recent years due to continued home price appreciation , as evidenced by the low weighted average current loan to value ratio below 50% .
Speaker #2: As a result, we expect that realized losses on these investments will be limited, and that these core investments will perform well over the foreseeable future.
Speaker #2: The pie charts on slide eight highlight our active management of the portfolio to maximize risk-adjusted returns. Our strategy is to recycle capital into assets that maximize risk-adjusted returns.
Speaker #2: Transitioning capital from lower yielding assets into high quality investments with superior return profiles . As an example , this quarter we sold $195 million of opportunistic investments in GSE issued CRT that had appreciated significantly since being purchased and where our projected go forward returns fell below our return requirements .
Speaker #2: The sale of these investments freed up capital for PMT to invest in newly created assets with higher expected returns from our ongoing private-label securitization efforts.
Speaker #2: We have also identified and acted upon opportunities to deploy capital into higher returning assets available in the market. This quarter, we identified agency floating rate MBS as an attractive investment with limited interest rate risk and purchased $877 million.
Speaker #2: Of these investments, we remain focused on optimizing our allocation to these investments with targeted ROIs in the 13% to 15% range. By strategically redeploying capital into these higher returning assets, we are successfully increasing the weighted average return profile of our overall portfolio.
Speaker #2: Turning to slide nine . You can see the run rate return potential expected from Pmts investment strategies over the next four quarters . EMT's current run rate reflects a quarterly average of $0.42 per share , up from $0.38 per share in the prior quarter .
Speaker #2: And higher than our 40 cent quarterly dividend . Overall , we expect increased returns in the credit sensitive strategies given the sale of our opportunistic investments in GSE issued , which had lower projected go forward returns and increased activity in accretive investments from our private label securitizations .
Speaker #2: As mentioned earlier in the interest rate-sensitive strategies, expected returns on equity increased slightly as we deploy capital into agency floating-rate MBS.
Speaker #2: As the yield curve steepens , we expect Pmts overall run rate would increase further , driven by higher overall spreads of long term asset yields to short term financing rates .
Speaker #2: Finally , forest funded and aggregation activities , particularly in jumbo loans , have positive momentum driving improved execution and an overall increase to our correspondent production segments .
Speaker #2: Return potential in closing , we are executing on a very clear value enhancing strategy for PMT . Strong results . This quarter combined with our improved outlook , our direct result of the competitive power of our platform , this success is rooted in the unique advantages derived from the synergistic relationship with PFC , which fueled our proprietary investment engine and enables us to be a leader in the private label securitization market by leveraging this integrated structure .
Speaker #2: PMT is exceptionally well positioned to substantially grow its earnings potential and deliver superior risk adjusted returns to our shareholders . Now , I'll turn it over to Dan , who will review the drivers of Pmts third quarter financial performance .
Speaker #4: Thank you, David. CMT reported net income to common shareholders of $48 million in the third quarter, or $0.55 per diluted common share.
Speaker #4: Let's start with the credit sensitive strategies . With a $19 million contribution to pre-tax income gains from organically created CRT investments were $10 million , including $8 million primarily consisting of realized gains in carry and $2 million of market driven value gains from credit spread , tightening , opportunistic investments in cash and stacker bonds generated gains of $2 million for the quarter .
Speaker #4: As David mentioned , we sold $195 million of these investments as the expected go forward , forward returns were below our return hurdles and we see more attractive investments resulting from our private label securitization program .
Speaker #4: Investments in Pmts Non-agency subordinate MBS generated gains of $7 million . The interest rate sensitive strategies had strong results , with pre-tax income of $32 million , income excluding market driven value changes in the segment was $36 million , primarily driven by higher income from MSR investments due to increased placement , fee income on custodial balances and lower realization of MSR cash flows .
Speaker #4: Net fair value losses in the segment were $4 million. The fair value of MSR declined by $27 million, and the fair value of our interest rate hedges also declined by $27 million.
Speaker #4: These declines were mostly offset by $51 million of fair value gains on agency MBS agency , structured products and Non-agency senior MBS , primarily due to the active addition of exposure to mortgage spreads , which tightened during the quarter .
Speaker #4: In the third quarter, PMT reported an income tax benefit of $11 million, driven primarily by fair value declines on MSR and interest rate hedges held in PMT's taxable REIT subsidiary.
Speaker #4: The fair value of the Pmts MSR asset at the end of the quarter was $3.7 billion, down slightly from June 30th. As newly originated MSR investments were more than offset by runoff and fair value declines.
Speaker #4: Delinquency rates for borrowers underlying the PMTS MSR portfolio remain low, and servicing advances outstanding decreased to $62 million from $70 million as of June 30.
Speaker #4: No principal and interest advances are currently outstanding under the renewed Mortgage Banking Services Agreement with PFC. Correspondent loans are now initially acquired by PFC as part of the agreement. PMT retains the right to purchase up to 100% of non-government correspondent production from PFC loans acquired from PFC correspondent production.
Speaker #4: Through this agreement, we totaled $3 billion, which is essentially unchanged from the volume of correspondent production retained by PMT in the prior quarter. GMT purchased 17% of PFC's total conventional conforming correspondent production and 100% of PFC's correspondent jumbo production.
Speaker #4: In the third quarter, similar to the amount PMT retained.
Speaker #1: Please stand by . The event is currently paused . Please stand by . The event will resume shortly . Please stand by . The event will resume shortly .
Speaker #1: Please stand by. The event will resume shortly.
Speaker #4: All right . Apologies again for the interruption . Get back into it . I want to take a minute to comment on its overall leverage ratio , which is we show on slide 15 the increase in total debt to equity in recent quarters is primarily a reflection of growth in nonrecourse debt related to our increased private label securitization activity and the related accounting treatment for these transactions , which requires us to record the transactions as a financing of loans rather than retained interest in the securitizations .
Speaker #4: The source of repayment for this non-recourse debt is limited to cash flows from the associated loans in each private label securitization, mitigating any additional exposure to PMT.
Speaker #4: We believe that the best metric to measure the leverage of our balance sheet is debt to equity , excluding the nonrecourse debt related to the securitizations which we have shown on page 15 , we expect the divergence between total debt to equity and debt to equity , excluding nonrecourse debt , to continue increasing in future periods as we continue our retention of investments from our securitization program , excluding nonrecourse debt , our debt to equity ratio at September 30th was 5.8 times within the range of our expected and historical levels .
Speaker #4: We'll now open it up for questions. Operator.
Speaker #1: Thank you so much. I would now like to remind everyone that we will only take questions related to PennyMac Mortgage Investment Trust or PMT.
Speaker #1: We also ask that you please keep your questions limited to one preliminary question and one follow-up question, as we'd like to ensure we can answer as many questions as possible.
Speaker #1: If you would like to ask a question during this time, please raise your hand. If you have dialed in to today's call, please press star, followed by the number nine.
Speaker #1: Raise your hand and star six to unmute and if you'd like to withdraw your question , please press star nine . Our first question comes from Doug Harter of UBS .
Speaker #1: Please ask your question .
Speaker #5: Hi . Thanks . I'm hoping to talk a little bit more about the the conventional , the securitizing , the conventional loans . How are you thinking about sizing that opportunity ?
Speaker #5: You know , how how are you kind of deciding , you know , what loans get get securitized , you know , versus delivered to the GSEs ?
Speaker #5: Just if you could walk through that process, that'd be great.
Speaker #2: Sure . Doug . Thanks . Thanks so much for the question . Look , we as we've pointed out in our opening comments , we have tremendous familiarity , knowledge and success with our investment in lender CRT .
Speaker #2: And when that program was discontinued in 2020 , we we , you know , we really took the time to understand how do we create a similar opportunity and , you know , fortunately , the non-owner , the Non-owner occupied securitization , you know , really provided the greatest opportunity for us .
Speaker #2: And so we seize on that opportunity and began the securitization process . There . But out of that , you know , we began to look at owner occupied loans and and really , there were combination of credit spread , tightening and the GSEs raising guaranteed fees or loan level price adjustments .
Speaker #2: Certain owner occupied loans became eligible or executed better into an owner occupied securitization . And so while we cannot create investment in a private label securitization at the pace that we did in CRT , clearly over time we can increase the pace and we can create a similar investment .
Speaker #2: And so that's what's exciting about this opportunity. Overall, the execution was superior to delivering the loans to the GSEs. And so, there wasn't any gain on sale hit.
Speaker #2: And likewise , it provided us with an investment in the in the mid-teens range for the long term . So from my perspective is a win win .
Speaker #2: It's not going to replace delivering to the GSEs . I mean , it's you know , it's it's if we were to do a deal a month through securitizations and loan activity , we probably would end up delivering 15% of our loans outside the GSEs .
Speaker #2: So it's not it's not meant to say that we don't need the GSEs , because we do need the GSEs . They're an incredibly important business partner of ours .
Speaker #2: But what's important for me is that we're creating meaningful investments for PMT and delivering results to our shareholders.
Speaker #5: So I guess as this opportunity , you know , continues to to grow , does that ultimately change the level of of the conventional correspondent business that PMT would look to buy from ?
Speaker #5: Fpci or , you know , or does it change the the type that that you're buying from ? Yes . I just wanted to know how those two kind of pieces .
Speaker #5: Yeah . So yeah .
Speaker #2: So if what the level of correspondent activity is from the correspondent business is a function of what PMT wants to invest in on both credit and interest rate sensitive assets.
Speaker #2: Overall , if it needs some additional owner occupied loans for securitization , it can go into the marketplace to buy those loans , or it can go to PFC to buy those loans .
Speaker #2: And obviously going to PFC to buy those loans . Is is the easier path . So I think I think you have to think about it as , you know , there's going to be an allocation , of course , funded loans to PMT and allocation to PFC .
Speaker #2: But , you know , to the extent that PMT wants more loans to do more securitization , that knows that it can go to PFC and whether those loans come through their allocation of correspondent loans or through their broker originations or their own direct to consumer originations , is just going to be a byproduct of the types of loans that PMT wants .
Speaker #4: And I think , Doug , just as a , you know , to add on to that , a little bit , we don't .
Speaker #4: Necessarily expect in terms of the percentage of loans that's going to PMT . Currently , the 17% , as we said in the in the some of the comments , we don't expect that to change for the fourth quarter .
Speaker #4: And that's, you know, we think that that's level, at least in terms of our current outlook, pretty consistent with where we expect to be as we're going into future periods.
Speaker #4: At the moment .
Speaker #5: Thank you guys .
Speaker #1: Your next question comes from Frankie Liberty of KBW . Your line is open . Please go ahead . Frankie , you are muted .
Speaker #1: There you go. Perfect.
Speaker #5: Hey guys, can you hear me?
Speaker #4: Yeah . And now .
Speaker #6: Hey this is Boz . Sorry . Puts in the system there . Yeah . Actually a couple of questions . One , just in terms of the , you know , the normalized run rate earnings that you guys discussed in the slide , just given the steeper curve driving that , should we think of the timeline for that .
Speaker #6: Just, you know, when the Fed is and further along in that process, like, you know, get there by the middle of next year.
Speaker #6: Or is that kind of a good cadence?
Speaker #4: It's a relatively good cadence . You know , we do . You know , there are some seasonal variations , both in volumes and in escrow balances , etc.
Speaker #4: , but really , you know , if you look at the earnings excluding market value changes for this quarter , it's , you know , if you exclude that , it's at around $0.40 already .
Speaker #4: And as we're moving into the next few quarters , we , you know , we'd expect to be pretty close to that , 42 cent level .
Speaker #4: Okay . You know on a core basis . And then we can have , you know , you know , we can have some changes that come in through the market value changes in any given period .
Speaker #4: But our core on the core basis , we're expecting to generate around that $0.42 , sort of out of the gate .
Speaker #6: Okay . Great . Thanks . And then just in terms of just going back to Doug's question about this , you know , the the transaction , the securitization , you know , how much of that is driven by the GSE pricing versus obviously , the spreads in the market are extremely tight as well .
Speaker #6: That's supporting that . Yeah , just kind of the the different pieces that kind of making that work . Now .
Speaker #2: Yeah . So so I think that , you know , as it pertains to the Non-owner occupied , I think that's just a market , a market , you know , I think it's markets in demand for that .
Speaker #2: Product spreads are tight . And I expect that to continue to remain tight . And the execution versus GSE deliveries is is , you know , pretty significant .
Speaker #2: So I don't expect to change there . On the owner occupied side . That's a little bit more sensitive . And I think that as we see , you know , spreads where they are , we see opportunities to do more owner occupied deals .
Speaker #2: Sure . Spreads were to widen out . You know , we probably would , you know , take a pause and deliver those to the Gscs .
Speaker #2: Obviously we're going to look at everything in its totality in terms of gain on sale versus long term investment . But by and large , it's just more the owner occupied transaction is a lot more sensitive , you know , to spread movement as it pertains to where the loans ultimately get delivered .
Speaker #6: Okay. Great. Thanks a lot.
Speaker #4: Thank you both .
Speaker #1: Your next question comes from Trevor Cranston of Citizens Joy . Your line is open . Please go ahead . Trevor , your line is open .
Speaker #1: Please unmute .
Speaker #7: Okay. Sorry about that. I was just unmuting. Question: With mortgage rates coming down a fair amount over the last few months.
Speaker #7: Can you talk about what you guys are seeing in terms of prepaid speeds , particularly , I guess , on the jumbo loan securitizations you guys have done over the last year or so , and maybe more generally , if you could also comment on kind , how sensitive projected returns are on those investments to changes in prepaid speeds .
Speaker #7: Thanks .
Speaker #4: Sure . So overall , in terms of the prepaid speeds , I think a little early yet on the on the jumbo securitizations , we really only started doing those in earnest in the middle of this year .
Speaker #4: And , and so and this is really I'd say the first , you know , probably the end of September here . Part of September is where , you know , some of those may have had a potential to start refinancing .
Speaker #4: So I think the the reactive to the reactive to that still have yet to see in , in full , but with respect to our sensitivity to those prepayments , since we own the subordinate tranches , generally speaking prepayments on from the jumbo loans are beneficial to to those investments .
Speaker #4: You know, typically we own them at a discount. And so, as prepayments increase, it increases the accretion of those over time or basically shortens the life.
Speaker #4: So , you know , the overall in terms of prepayment speeds , you know , is not a significantly negative impact or it's not a negative impact to our investment .
Speaker #2: And this is the benefit , you know , the msrs that we own back in these deals , obviously , having the hedge hedge in place to be able to counter the prepayment speed issues , vitally important .
Speaker #2: I think , you know , the hedge results this quarter were were really very good . Marshall and the team have done a great job in getting us set up to be able to really see the benefit of an active hedge process in in the portfolio , and , you know , so hedging those assets helps mute , you know , a lot of the prepayment risk associated with owning Msrs .
Speaker #7: Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, thank you.
Speaker #1: If you would like to ask a question, please raise your hand. Now, if you have dialed in to today's call, please press star nine to raise your hand and star six to unmute. Your next question comes from Crispin Love, Piper Sandler. The line is open.
Speaker #1: Please go ahead .
Speaker #8: Thank you . Good afternoon . First , can you just speak to where you're seeing the best opportunities for risk adjusted returns ? Right now ?
Speaker #8: Just between the interest rate-sensitive and credit-sensitive strategies, where you're most focused on allocating capital in the near term.
Speaker #2: Yeah . Hi , Chris . I think from my perspective , the best opportunity right now is in the credit sensitive strategies sector .
Speaker #2: You know , whether it's doing owner occupied securitizations or non-owner-occupied securitizations . We are getting long term really stable investments in subordinate tranches at the mid-teens levels .
Speaker #2: The Msrs are slightly less than that, but I think what's, and maybe a little bit more than slightly, but they're, you know, they're probably in the lower teens.
Speaker #2: But what's , what's driving our motivation there is to get more balance between interest rate sensitive investments and credit sensitive investments . And so as I as I mentioned , you know , historically , we've been closer to a 50 over 50 .
Speaker #2: We got as high as 55% interest rate-sensitive assets back in 2022. So I'm really focused on being able to invest in credit-sensitive strategies.
Speaker #2: I think that our vehicle has proven to be very valuable in investing in credit sensitive strategies , and I think given the underwriting and the due diligence and the servicing behind it , the ability to manage the outcomes in a more active way is something that we've shown ourselves to be able to do , is really , if you think about during Covid , our losses were much lower on CRT than other CRT investments .
Speaker #2: And so I think for the time being , we're we're very excited about the opportunities that's presented to us . And , and I think that this is something you're going to continue to see us participate in .
Speaker #2: And as we produce the results, I'm really hopeful that we'll be able to grow the REIT to be able to deploy even more capital.
Speaker #4: And the one the one thing I'd add on to that is that , you know , if we do when we do see opportunities in the interest rate sensitive strategies , although over time we do think the best deployment is in credit .
Speaker #4: And that's really what we see as the best use of our synergy with FC, and all of the things that David mentioned.
Speaker #4: But to the extent that we see opportunities in the interest rate sensitive strategies , as we did with floater floating rate MBS or CMO floaters in this quarter , you know , we will deploy those to take advantage of the the opportunities for returns that we see and returns on a basis that we think is fairly insulated from changes in interest rates , but that , you know , really , over time that that credit sensitive opportunity , I think is the best , the best deployment of our capital .
Speaker #8: Okay . Great . Thanks . I appreciate that . And then just big picture , can you just share your latest thoughts on potential changes to the GSEs .
Speaker #8: Any thoughts on timing the potential impact of PMT just based on what we've heard so far from the administration, the FHFA?
Speaker #7: Sure .
Speaker #2: Hi . Look , I think that obviously there's a lot of discussions going on as it pertains to the GSEs and and so from my perspective , you know , when I get asked the question , you know , any action shouldn't harm consumers of the mortgage market .
Speaker #2: You know, housing is just too big a part of the GDP to really disrupt it. I think that is, as it pertains to PMT.
Speaker #2: We've you know , we've got a tremendous relationship with the GSEs , having , you know , the relationship with PFC is vitally important , but also the platform between the two companies is , you know , on its way to delivering , you know , 15% of its production outside of the GSEs .
Speaker #2: And that's what we need to continue to do is to be able to be agile . That if there is a disruption in the marketplace that we can continue to operate and grow in that period of disruption .
Speaker #2: And that's why doing these securitizations and engaging in outright whole loan sales is , is vitally important . You know , under the heading of just focus on what you can control .
Speaker #2: And that's what we're trying to do here . Quite successfully , might I add . And I think it's it's really a credit to the team that , you know , you're just seeing more active management of the portfolio .
Speaker #2: And that's what we need to do during a period of uncertainty.
Speaker #8: Great. Thank you. I appreciate you taking my questions.
Speaker #2: Thanks .
Speaker #1: We have no further questions at this time. I'll now turn it back to David Spector for closing remarks.
Speaker #2: Thank you . Operator . And thank you all for joining us this afternoon . Again , apologies for the technical difficulties . We'll work it out with our business partner here .
Speaker #2: But we encourage investors, or any of you as well, with any additional questions, to contact our Investor Relations team by email or phone.
Speaker #2: Thanks again .