Q3 2025 Aeye Inc Earnings Call

Speaker #1: Ladies and gentlemen , thank you for standing by . At this time , I would like to welcome everyone to the AI Q3 2025 Earnings Conference Call .

Speaker #1: All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise . After the speakers remarks , there will be a question and answer session .

Speaker #1: If you would like to ask a question during this time , simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad .

Speaker #1: If you would like to withdraw your question , press the star one . I would now like to turn the conference over to Jeremy Appel .

Speaker #1: You may begin .

Speaker #2: Good afternoon , and thank you for joining A's third quarter 2020 earnings call . With me today are Matt Fish , chief Executive Officer and Chairman and Conor Tierney Chief Financial Officer .

Speaker #2: Earlier today , I announced the financial results for the third quarter , a copy of this press release can be found on the Investor Relations section of the company's website .

Speaker #2: Before we begin , I would like to remind participants that today's discussion may include forward looking statements as defined in the securities laws and regulations of the United States , with reference to future events , operating results , or financial performance .

Speaker #2: In such forward looking statements are based on our current expectations and assumptions regarding our business . The industry and other conditions . These forward looking statements are subject to inherent risks , uncertainties and changes in circumstances that are difficult or impossible to predict .

Speaker #2: Our actual results may differ materially from those contemplated by these forward looking statements . We caution you , therefore , against placing undue reliance on any of these forward looking statements .

Speaker #2: You can find more information about the risks , uncertainties and other factors in the reports . AI files from time to time with the Securities and Exchange Commission , including in the most recent periodic report .

Speaker #2: The statements could be made are as of today , only an AI does not intend to update any forward looking statements , regardless of any new information .

Speaker #2: Future developments or otherwise , except as may be required by law . In addition , we will be discussing non-GAAP financial measures on this call , which we believe are relevant in assessing the financial performance of the business .

Speaker #2: These measures are presented as supplemental information only and should not be considered a substitute for financial information presented in accordance with GAAP . You can find reconciliations of these metrics to the most directly comparable GAAP measures within the press release .

Speaker #2: Now, I'll pass the call over to Matt.

Speaker #3: Thanks , Jeremy , and thank you all for joining our third quarter 2020 earnings call . This quarter marked another step forward for AI as we continue to build on the progress made over the past year .

Speaker #3: Over the last several quarters , we've executed the strategy that we set forth , brought spending under control , developed and launched a differentiated product ready for commercialization and establish the foundation for scalable growth .

Speaker #3: Now , with Apollo in the market and gaining traction , our focus has shifted to building and converting a strong revenue pipeline . We're winning new customers , expanding partnerships , and gearing up to scale .

Speaker #3: Apollo as we just announced , increased investor confidence in what we've been building has allowed us to secure the capital needed to ramp our production line with a strong cash position , providing visibility for the next few years .

Speaker #3: We are well positioned to translate momentum into sustained revenue growth further , Apollo's unique combination of long range sensing from behind the windshield , compact design , software driven versatility , and competitive pricing continues to resonate with customers , and we're securing new contracts across our target markets .

Speaker #3: We believe no one else offers this same blend of performance and adaptability , which continues to fuel our commercial momentum . Today , we want to focus on sharing details around our progress towards revenue growth .

Speaker #3: Via commercialization of Apollo and Optus . I'll start with where we're seeing the most momentum right now . Our growing customer base and the real world programs that are putting Apollo to work .

Speaker #3: We doubled our customer base since the end of the second quarter , bringing us to 12 customer contracts signed year to date . One of those wins came from a global defense contractor using Apollo on UAVs to improve wire detection .

Speaker #3: A perfect example of Apollo's strength in identifying small objects at long range and high speed . These kind of programs not only create near-term revenue opportunities , but also open the door to broader adoption across defense and aerospace OEMs .

Speaker #3: Our commercial pipeline also continued to strengthen in Q3 , with two dozen active quotes tripling last quarter's level . The pull from customers is real , and we're converting more opportunities into active programs .

Speaker #3: The pipeline is deepening , giving us better visibility to future revenue and a solid base to build from as we grow . Across these programs .

Speaker #3: Interest is growing rapidly in physical AI , a concept focused on bringing vision to intelligence . Put another way , this is the equivalent of giving eyes to an AI model like ChatGPT .

Speaker #3: We're already seeing this come to life through real deployments , including the UAV wire detection application . I just mentioned , as well as optical detection for rail and way station automation powered by optics , analytics .

Speaker #3: Together , these programs show how Apollo and Optus are enabling intelligent perception and challenging environments . While we continue to drive expanded engagement with automotive OEMs .

Speaker #3: Value Apollo's long range behind the windshield , visibility . Next , I'll touch on our expanding manufacturing capacity . As I mentioned earlier , we've announced an expansion of the agreement with our tier one manufacturing partner , Lite-on , and an investment from a leading global institutional investor to fund a new dedicated production line for Apollo with capacity to produce up to 60,000 units annually .

Speaker #3: We're seeing an inflection point in customer demand . And this expansion ensures we can meet the growth head on our capital light model allows us to channel investment directly into working capital for production , rather than fixed infrastructure , enabling rapid and efficient scaling .

Speaker #3: This decision reflects our conviction in Apollo's commercial momentum and positions us to capture the accelerating demand ahead . In addition , recent developments in the lidar industry have validated and reinforced our conviction that our capital light model is the most viable path to sustainable commercialization .

Speaker #3: Turning to markets and partnerships . Engagement with the automotive industry remains strong , with active discussions underway with about two thirds of major Western OEMs .

Speaker #3: What's capturing their attention is Apollo's compact design . It fits cleanly behind the windshield without compromising long range performance , giving OEMs a vehicle packaging solution for meeting hands off , eyes off sensing requirements that doesn't require exterior vehicle modifications .

Speaker #3: We believe that this packaging advantage provides AI with a key differentiator , as the next generation of programs are sourced . As automotive programs progress , we've forged critical software partnerships that are opening new markets and already translating into sales across the fence .

Speaker #3: Aviation , rail and smart infrastructure . These collaborations are helping us mature Apollo , enhance cost efficiency and expand adoption . Recent examples include partnerships with Blue Band , which uses Apollo's long range sensing for AI driven traffic management , and Flash Shy , whose 3D perception software enhances safety and logistics applications in complex scenarios such as at airports and transportation hubs .

Speaker #3: Internationally , our partnership with Black Sesame Technologies in China combines Apollo's 1550 nanometer sensor with their automotive grade compute platform to deliver a full stack obstacle detection capability .

Speaker #3: This solution has already been selected by a leading transportation OEM representing a potential multibillion dollar revenue opportunity and underscoring Apollo's performance , reliability , and scalability in one of the world's most competitive mobility markets .

Speaker #3: Together , these partnerships are turning opportunity into action , driving real Apollo and Optus sales today . In closing , we're executing with focus and delivering results .

Speaker #3: Apollo's clear differentiation is driving real sales and strengthening our customer base and our strategic partnerships are translating into commercial wins . We're adding customers , broadening our market reach and scaling production alongside partners who share our vision .

Speaker #3: Backed by a strong cash position, that gives us a clear path to execute our plans for growth in the coming years. We have the resources and flexibility to advance commercialization.

Speaker #3: The pieces are in place . We have the technology , the partnerships and the balance sheet to continue this progress and drive consistent revenue expansion .

Speaker #3: I'll now turn the call over to Connor to review our financial performance .

Speaker #4: Thanks , Matt . AI is demonstrating solid financial discipline and operational resilience , positioning the company for durable long term growth . With $84 million in cash at the end of Q3 , we have the runway to operate well into 2028 , providing a solid foundation to scale and execute our growth strategy with confidence .

Speaker #4: Importantly , we have cleaned up our capital and debt structure , leaving us in a stronger financial position compared to our peers . We're approaching growth in three deliberate phases , each designed to unlock value and build momentum .

Speaker #4: This is a disciplined roadmap , not just for the next quarter , but for the next several years . Phase one is laying the foundation and gaining traction , and we're already seeing solid progress here .

Speaker #4: Strategic partnerships are taking shape , particularly in non-automotive markets , and proof of concept deployments are validating our technology in real world scenarios .

Speaker #4: These early wins are critical because they set the stage for everything that follows . Phase two is where we accelerate and we expect the inflection point for this phase to come next year .

Speaker #4: To prepare , we're putting in place the infrastructure we need , strengthening our supply chain , expanding manufacturing capabilities and building deployment readiness so we can meet the demand .

Speaker #4: We anticipate that this is when revenue should begin to climb and margins turn positive as we optimize costs and streamline operations. It's the bridge from promise to performance.

Speaker #4: Phase three is the breakthrough moment when profitability becomes real . Each phase builds on the last , creating a clear path to unlock adoption , drive revenue and ultimately create shareholder value .

Speaker #4: It's a disciplined approach to scaling with confidence . As Matt noted , our commercial pipeline continues to expand at an impressive pace . In fact , our Non-automotive funnel has grown sixfold from fewer than 100 prospects earlier this year to nearly 600 today .

Speaker #4: Quarter over quarter . Technical engagements increased by nearly 50% . Quotes issued tripled and signed contracts doubled to 12 since Q2 . These metrics tell a clear story we're seeing stronger alignment with customer needs and growing confidence in our technology .

Speaker #4: Intelligent transportation systems lead the way in funnel volume and proof of concept activity . While rail shows some of the highest engagement rates .

Speaker #4: Aerospace and defense are also maturing nicely . A striking attraction is Apollo's unique value proposition , combining powerful lidar capabilities with flexible software control and a compact design , Apollo fits seamlessly behind the windshield for streamlined automotive integration .

Speaker #4: This flexibility allows us to tailor solutions for specific applications and lead in sectors where alternatives appear limited , creating a distinct competitive advantage that strongly resonates with customers .

Speaker #4: Optus is moving our partnership strategy forward . We've moved Optus from concept to structured offering with initial deployments already completed . Now we're enhancing system performance by adding compute and perception capabilities .

Speaker #4: At the same time , we're expanding our ecosystem beyond perception . Only solutions , engaging in technical discussions with new partners and exploring reseller opportunities to extend our reach .

Speaker #4: Recent additions to our partner network include Black Sesame , Blue Band , and Flashlight . I'll now move on to slide seven to address our cash burn and our capital light model .

Speaker #4: Excluding net financing proceeds . Third quarter cash burn decreased by approximately $0.7 million to $6.4 million . This reduction follows an elevated burn rate in the second quarter , which included a one time , $1.4 million lease settlement payment , partially offset in the third quarter by higher engineering and professional service costs .

Speaker #4: Our capital light model remains instrumental to our growth strategy , allowing us to expand efficiently by leveraging strategic partnerships rather than making capital investments in manufacturing our software infrastructure , as shown on this slide , our unique operating model translates into meaningfully lower expenses compared to peers , providing a distinct advantage in capital efficiency as we continue to scale .

Speaker #4: Now , turning to our third quarter financial results on slide eight . Third quarter GAAP operating expenses were $7.8 million , down from $8.6 million in the second quarter of 2025 , primarily due to lower costs associated with our proxy contest personnel expenses and contract development costs .

Speaker #4: Third quarter non-GAAP operating expenses were $6.1 million , a decrease of $0.7 million compared to the prior quarter , primarily driven by the same cost drivers as described above .

Speaker #4: We reported a GAAP net loss of $9.3 million , or $0.30 per share , in the third quarter , which was comparable to GAAP net loss of $9.3 million , or $0.48 per share , in the second quarter of 2025 .

Speaker #4: On a non-GAAP basis , our net loss was $5.4 million , or $0.17 per share , beating consensus estimates in the third quarter compared to a non-GAAP net loss of $6.7 million , or $0.35 per share , in the prior quarter .

Speaker #4: This improvement was driven primarily by operating expense reductions noted above and increased interest and investment income . Net cash used for operating activities decreased to $6.1 million in the third quarter , from $6.4 million in the second quarter of 2025 .

Speaker #4: We ended the quarter with cash . Cash equivalents and marketable securities of $84.3 million , more . Than quadruple our cash balance compared to prior quarter end .

Speaker #4: Since quarter end , we've raised an additional $10 million . Importantly , we remain focused on maintaining a strong , simplified balance sheet .

Speaker #4: The convertible note executed earlier this year , has been fully repaid , and during the quarter we eliminated legacy warrants , further cleaning up our capital structure .

Speaker #4: These actions position us in a much healthier financial state compared to many peers in the sector, who continue to carry significant debt.

Speaker #4: Overall , we're maintaining strong liquidity , disciplined capital management , and a balance sheet that supports our long term growth strategy . Moving on to our cash burn outlook on slide nine , we continue to expect full year 2025 cash burn to be at the high end of our previously communicated range of 27 to $29 million , reflecting planned investments to scale Apollo production and support commercial expansion .

Speaker #4: In summary , we're thrilled by the momentum that we are seeing across the business . Apollo's differentiated value proposition is strengthening our customer pipeline while we continue to have the most efficient cost structure among our peers .

Speaker #4: Financial discipline remains our top priority as we look ahead to scaling to meet growing demand for our advanced LiDAR technology . With that , I'll back to Matt to wrap things up .

Speaker #3: Thanks , Connor . We're proud of the progress AI has made , both technically and commercially this quarter . Sales are ramping and our pipeline is accelerating as we see rapidly increasing pull from the market .

Speaker #3: Strong leading indicators of revenue growth . We expect in 2026 . The team is fully aligned around execution , and we look forward to updating you on our continued progress in the quarters ahead .

Speaker #1: Thank you . We will now begin the question and answer session . If you have dialed in , would like to ask a

Speaker #1: question , pass it please press star One on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and join the queue . If you would like to withdraw your question , simply press star one again .

Speaker #1: If you are called upon to ask a question and are listening via speakerphone on your device , please pick up your handset to ensure that your phone is not on mute .

Speaker #1: When asking your question , we do request for today's session that you please limit to one question and one follow up question . Our first question comes from Paul Freda from Alliance Global Partners .

Speaker #1: Please go ahead .

Speaker #5: Hey good afternoon . Congratulations on the progress . Would Matt , would you expand on your confidence in the capital light model , especially in the context of recent industry events ?

Speaker #3: Hey , Paul . Yeah , sure . Happy to do that . And thanks for joining us again . This quarter . I think there's two two pieces to think about here .

Speaker #3: One is what I'd call the more obvious piece , which is manufacturing capital investment . And then the second I do want to talk about software a bit because that's important as well .

Speaker #3: We've got our capital light model in the manufacturing side relies on a partnership with light on with who has a very global footprint and also very importantly , they're experienced in dealing with the automotive industry .

Speaker #3: Just to give you an example , I'm out here in Detroit today . I was meeting with an OEM talking about our progress in their supplier audit process .

Speaker #3: OEMs are now starting to use a word called resiliency , which means can you quickly manufacture change your manufacturing site from one part of the world to the other ?

Speaker #3: And as a small company , that's incredibly expensive to be able to invest in something like that and our capital light model says we partner with somebody very seasoned and experienced in this area .

Speaker #3: So we can have this flexibility , nimbleness and resiliency through our partner . As opposed to having to make massive investments . And this allows us to essentially look at just in time delivery , ordering of components .

Speaker #3: So we're really focused on looking at the pull from the market . And then ensuring that our working capital is lined up and ready just for just in time .

Speaker #3: Delivery . And that keeps our upfront costs incredibly low . This also extends to our focus on the software space as well . We just want to be great at building best in class leader , and we're also very adept at helping customers solve particular problems with this capital light model .

Speaker #3: We're rely on partners to write perception software . For example . That's that's a big expense to create perception software and maintain it .

Speaker #3: And we're happy to offer that through our Optus platform , through our partners . Again , avoiding the upfront investment of having to build the software ourselves .

Speaker #3: And I think the results speak for themselves . I mean , they cash balance and the company is very strong or debt structure is very strong and we're able to basically manage that through just in time delivery .

Speaker #3: Thanks to our capital light model .

Speaker #5: That's great color and then can you look at , you know , there's a big jump . You doubled your customer base to 12 .

Speaker #5: Can you just talk more about that . That pipeline of customers and you know within the 12 customers now can you talk about the mix between auto and non-auto .

Speaker #5: ?

Speaker #4: Hey , this is Conor here . I can jump in for that question . And then maybe Matt can can add his thoughts at the end .

Speaker #4: But , but but first off , you know , addressing this question , I'd just like to preface it with the fact that we've really only had Apollo out in the market and in customers hands since early in the year .

Speaker #4: We're talking February time frame . So I think the amount of traction that we've shown on the funnel is just amazing . In my opinion .

Speaker #4: So if you look , you know , just referring back to the script , if you look at the number of prospects that we have in the funnel , we can increase that from , you know , 100 and beginning in beginning of the year to almost 600 today , if you look further down the funnel , if you look at technical engagements that we have with customers , that's increased by almost 50% .

Speaker #4: If you look at quoted activity that's almost tripled . And then as you alluded to just now , we've seen a lot of traction on the contract side as well .

Speaker #4: We've grown that almost doubled it from 6 to 12 in just one quarter . And so , you know , when when I think about that , there's a certain amount of commonality with the customers that are engaging with us .

Speaker #4: And what we're seeing is there is a appetite for for high performance sensors . And so the value prop that we're bringing is quite unique in the marketplace right now .

Speaker #4: The combination of long range , we can see up to a kilometer , but also also ultra high resolution as well . And the software reconfigurable Reconfigurability piece is something that really resonates because you think about each customer they have unique use cases .

Speaker #4: And so that adaptability , being able to work with the customer , being able to customize a solution that works for them is something that's very compelling to the end customer .

Speaker #4: And that's really the value prop . And then the other thing , just thinking about the market up to now , if you think about those high performance sectors , you know , Matt alluded to it in his script .

Speaker #4: You know , you're talking about defense . You're talking about smart infrastructure , rail . You know , you think about especially in the defense sector .

Speaker #4: You think about the solutions that have been on the market for the last 30 years . You know , High-Performance LiDAR sensors were selling for even millions of dollars , right .

Speaker #4: And then you think of other other sensor modalities , such as radar and camera , you know , there was some limitations and deficiencies in those solutions .

Speaker #4: So what we're offering right now is really a high performance sensor at a really competitive price point . And I think that's really compelling to the end user .

Speaker #4: And that's why we're seeing a lot of growth in the funnel . You know , a healthy conversion rate . Moving from two customers at the beginning of the year to almost 12 today .

Speaker #4: That's a really strong that's a really strong signal to customers . Are engaged and they're interested in what we're doing . So I'm not I'm not sure if you want to chime in if you have anything else to add .

Speaker #4: There .

Speaker #3: Yeah . Well , said Connor , I think I just add one thing and that is . Talking about the automotive space . You may think , well , why does a passenger vehicle need a one kilometer range ?

Speaker #3: What we're bringing into that space in the same small size and low cost package is the ability to put the lidar inside the cabin , behind the windshield glass does terrible things to lidar , and you can't see very far or when you try to shine the light on through glass .

Speaker #3: This one kilometer performance allows us to meet the automotive and passenger vehicle requirements through the windshield inside the cabin , and that's getting a lot of meetings with OEMs right now .

Speaker #3: They're very interested in avoiding that . That bump on the roof , the taxi sign , so to speak . So it's not just sort of defense and other industries that that , you know , you look at a kilometer and go , wow , that's amazing .

Speaker #3: We need to have that shining the light through the glass in the vehicle , through the windshield , greatly simplifies the OEM lidar integration problem .

Speaker #3: We're getting a lot of interest on the automotive side from that perspective as well . the

Speaker #1: Our next question comes from Casey Ryan from West Park Capital . Please go ahead .

Speaker #6: Thank you . Matt Connor . Lots of progress . Great update here . There's a lot to look at . I just wanted to ask Matt , you used I think the more technical appropriate term of UAV as the defense opportunity .

Speaker #6: Is it fair to say that that covers all drone applications potentially within defense ? But then my question is , have you also seen an uptick or more interest from commercial drone manufacturers , particularly domestic , as I know DJI is under review and there's a potential loss of them from the market .

Speaker #6: So presumably other people are stepping up now at this point .

Speaker #3: Yeah . Hey , Connor , going to have you jump in on that . Since you've been directly involved in those conversations .

Speaker #4: Yeah . Hey , Casey , just just starting with the , I guess the defense piece . First , we are seeing interest in UAV space , but it's not just UAV .

Speaker #4: It's also mind , mind aerial aerial vehicles as well . So it's not just the drone piece . I would say . Yeah , there is an opportunity on the commercial side .

Speaker #4: That's something that we're actively pursuing . And if you think about , you , drones are used for all sorts of use cases .

Speaker #4: Obviously , you know , disaster mitigation , aerial mapping , all those kinds of things . And I think the same attributes that attract DoD customers to us apply to to all those use cases as well .

Speaker #4: Right ? These guys are looking for a solution that can see long range , but also see with a high degree of resolution as well .

Speaker #4: So I would say we're actively engaged across the board in all those sectors .

Speaker #6: Okay . Tremendous . And then quickly on the auto OEM side , you know , for mass market , which I realize we're still some years away from , where do you sense the focus are OEMs building for level three and level four , or are they still kind of trying to optimize for level two and sort of hands free type applications ?

Speaker #3: Yeah . Hey , thanks , Casey . By the way , welcome back . Thanks for joining us . I'll take that one .

Speaker #3: Look at it's I'm not necessarily going to speak on behalf of the OEM , but in terms of the specs that are coming to us through Rfis , I would say that in the last six months , we've seen a significant shift into the L3 and L4 space .

Speaker #3: I think you can track some of that in the media as well . But if you look at the requirements that are that are coming in these rfis from the OEMs , I think we're seeing that shift to L3 and L4 very , very clearly in the last six months .

Speaker #3: I would say .

Speaker #6: Okay , terrific . Well , it's helpful and it's a great update . So thank you for the time today .

Speaker #3: Thanks for joining us .

Speaker #4: Thanks , Casey .

Speaker #1: Again , if you would like to ask a question , please press Star One on your telephone keypad to join the queue . Our next question comes from Paul Freda from Alliance Global Partners .

Speaker #5: Hey , Connor , would you like mind just giving us a little more detail or a little more color on the institutional investor that you've lined up ?

Speaker #5: Can you frame maybe the potential size of their investment and also the timing of the investment and also is that required to get to full production ?

Speaker #5: You know , that full production number of 60,000 units per year by the middle of next year .

Speaker #4: Hey , Casey , let me . I'm sorry . Casey . Hey , Paul , let me address that . What I would say is we haven't really released all those details or all those that information in the PR , but I'll try to at least address some of it .

Speaker #4: So it's a well known institutional investor . I that's for sure . The name will definitely resonate with everybody . What I would say is the investment itself was made up after quarter end .

Speaker #4: So it's part of that 10 million that I alluded to in the script in terms of giving us enough runway . What I would say is , you know , we had 84 million in cash at the end of the quarter .

Speaker #4: When you take into consideration the additional capital that we raised post quarter end , we're up above 90 million at this point . And we feel at this point in time that that's more than enough capital to go out and execute to our growth , to basically go out and execute and accelerate our go to market strategy .

Speaker #4: You know , there could be opportunities to raise capital down the road . But I think we would have to carefully evaluate those opportunities .

Speaker #4: But at this point in time , I think we're generally feeling feeling relatively comfortable that we have enough capital , at least for the immediate strategy that we're pursuing here .

Speaker #5: Great . Thank you .

Speaker #4: Yep .

Speaker #1: Our next question comes from Richard Shannon from Craig-hallum Capital Group LLC . Please go ahead .

Speaker #7: Guys , thanks for taking my question . I apologize for the ambient noise here . I'm trying to watch my daughter's volleyball tournament here .

Speaker #7: At the same time , I may have missed the prepared remarks to this topic here , but the next six new wins you talked about in the quarter here , can you describe the the applications ?

Speaker #7: And volume opportunity that you're looking at here ?

Speaker #3: Hey , Connor , why don't you go and take that one .

Speaker #4: Yeah . Hey , Richard , I can just give you a general idea about what those use cases relate to . As I said earlier , they're for high performance use cases .

Speaker #4: So generally , think about the aviation sector , rail transportation systems . And so what I would say is right now in phase one of the three phase process .

Speaker #4: And so this is really foundational . So we're working with the customer basically to but proof of concepts together . And that's part of that .

Speaker #4: Overall strategy . So it's really laying the foundations for a volume ramp that we expect to hear . And really getting very positive .

Speaker #4: You know , indications from customers that they're willing to , to , to sign up for higher volumes . And that's why we , you know , made the decision with light on to to invest in infrastructure and invest in the line .

Speaker #4: So we have the capacity to , to meet that demand when it does come through .

Speaker #7: And maybe just a follow .

Speaker #8: Up .

Speaker #7: Connor , what are we talking about in terms of of investments ? Your , you know , that you're going to be making here with Leighton ?

Speaker #7: I assume this is in the form of some CapEx being conferred to them or whatever , but maybe you can just help us understand what that investment is in the magnitude of it .

Speaker #7: Over what time ?

Speaker #4: Yeah , look .

Speaker #7: Look , what .

Speaker #4: I would say is we don't expect a dramatic increase in our burn rate next year . And , you know , I frame this from the point of view that if you look at our burn rate for this year , we're guiding to about $29 million .

Speaker #4: But there's a lot of one time items included in that . So if you look at our baseline burn for this year , it's really more like 25 million .

Speaker #4: So I would say, probably at a minimum next year, we're looking at around $30 million. There's obviously the opportunity for that to go up a little bit.

Speaker #4: If we invest in working capital . But but for us , I mean , what we're really looking at is , is getting some of the investment to specific milestones and specific commitments on the customer side .

Speaker #4: But the great thing is that we're working with a partner that's extremely flexible . And , you know , the upfront capital might come in the form of of long lead commitments that we need to make , but we think we can be very flexible in that regard .

Speaker #4: And gate spending to to , you . Know , guaranteed demand .

Speaker #7: Question I'll jump out of line here . So you talked about investing in capacity of 60,000 units annually here . Do you have any visibility on the time frame by which you might be approaching high utilization with that kind of a unit here ?

Speaker #7: volume

Speaker #7: I assume it's not next year or two , but if it is , certainly love to get get some context on that .

Speaker #4: I don't think that's going to come overnight . I think it's going to be more sequence , going to be more phase . But the important thing is to be ready , right ?

Speaker #4: I don't think that's going to come overnight . I think it's going to be more sequence , going to be more phase . But the important thing is

Speaker #4: like I mentioned earlier . Right . We're going to probably have to make investments in work capital . There may be a little bit of CapEx , but because of our capital light model , we're able to keep those investment flows .

Speaker #4: And we're getting a lot of support from from as well . In that regard to .

Speaker #7: Okay , perfect . That's all I need , guys . Thank you very much .

Speaker #3: Thank you Richard .

Speaker #4: Thanks , Richard concludes .

Speaker #1: And answer session . I would now like to turn the call over to Matthew Fisch for closing remarks .

Speaker #3: Thank you all for your time today . We appreciate your continued support and confidence in our vision . Have a great day .