Q3 2025 Scorpio Tankers Inc Earnings Call
Speaker #3: Hello and welcome to the Scorpio Tankers Inc Third Quarter 2025 conference call . I would now like to turn the call over to James Doyle , head of corporate development and IR .
Operator: Hello and welcome to the Scorpio Tankers Inc. third quarter 2025 conference call. I would now like to turn the call over to James Doyle, Head of Corporate Development and Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.
Speaker #3: Please go ahead , sir .
Speaker #4: Thank you for joining us today . Welcome to the Scorpio Tankers Inc third Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call . On the call with me today are Emanuele Lauro Chief Executive Officer , Robert Bugbee President Cameron McKee .
James Doyle: Thank you for joining us today. Welcome to the Scorpio Tankers Inc. third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. On the call with me today are Emanuele Lauro, Chief Executive Officer, Robert Bugbee, President, Cameron Mackey, Chief Operating Officer, Chris Avella, Chief Financial Officer, and Lars Dencker Nielsen, Chief Commercial Officer. Earlier today we issued our third quarter earnings press release, which is available on our website, scorpiotankers.com. The information discussed on this call is based on information as of today, October 30, 2025, and may contain forward-looking statements that involve risk and uncertainty. Actual results may differ materially from those set forth in such statements. For discussion of these risks and uncertainties, you should review the forward-looking statement disclosure in the earnings press release as well as Scorpio Tankers Inc. SEC filings, which are available at scorpiotankers.com and sec.gov.
Speaker #4: Chief Operating Officer Chris Avella , chief Financial officer . Lars Dencker Nielsen , chief commercial officer . Earlier today , we issued our third quarter earnings press release , which is available on our website , Scorpio Tankers Inc .
Speaker #4: The information discussed on this call is based on information as of today , October 30th , 2025 , and may contain forward looking statements that involve risks and uncertainty .
Speaker #4: Actual results may differ materially from those set forth in such statements . For discussion of these risks and uncertainties , you should review the forward looking statement disclosure in the earnings press release , as well as Scorpio Tankers Inc SEC filings , which are available at Scorpio Tankers Inc and sec.gov .
Speaker #4: Call participants are advised that the audio of this conference call is being broadcasted live on the internet and is also being recorded for playback purposes .
James Doyle: Call participants are advised that the audio of this conference call is being broadcast live on the Internet and is also being recorded for playback purposes. An archive of the webcast will be made available on the Investor Relations page of our website for approximately 14 days. We will be giving a short presentation today. The presentation is available at scorpiotankers.com on the Investor Relations page under Reports and Presentations. The slides will also be available on the webcast. After the presentation, we will go to Q&A. For those asking questions, please limit the number of questions to 2. If you have an additional question, please rejoin the queue. Now I'd like to introduce our Chief Executive Officer, Emanuele Lauro.
Speaker #4: An archive of the webcast will be made available on the Investor Relations page of our website . For approximately 14 days . We will be giving a short presentation today .
Speaker #4: The presentation is available at Scorpio Tankers Inc on the Investor Relations page under reports and Presentations . The slides will also be available on the webcast .
Speaker #4: After the presentation , we will go to Q&A . For those asking questions , please limit the number of questions to two . If you have any additional question , please rejoin the queue .
Speaker #4: Now I'd like to introduce our Chief Executive Officer , Emanuele Lauro .
Speaker #5: Thank you . James , and good morning , everyone , and thanks for joining us today . We are pleased to report another quarter of strong financial results in the third quarter .
Emanuele Lauro: Thank you, James, and good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us today. We are pleased to report another quarter of strong financial results. In the third quarter, the company generated $87.7 million in adjusted EBITDA and $72.7 million in adjusted net income. The product tanker market continues to benefit from enduring structural trends like strong demand for refined products, evolving trade patterns, and long-term shift in global refining that are lengthening voyages and increasing ton-mile demand. Those dynamics have been reflected in freight rates, which have strengthened over the past quarters. The company is financially, operationally, and commercially strong. Our focus is clear: building a shipping company that is investable through the cycle. Today, our liquidity stands at approximately $1.4 billion, including cash under on revolving credit and our investment in DHT.
Speaker #5: The company generated $87.7 million in adjusted EBITDA and 72.7 in adjusted net income . The product market continues to benefit from enduring structural trends like strong demand for refined products , evolving trade patterns , and long term shifts in global refining that are lengthening voyages and increasing ton miles .
Speaker #5: Those have been reflected in freight rates, which have strengthened over the past quarters. The company is financially, operationally dynamic, and commercially strong.
Speaker #5: Our focus is clear building a shipping company that is investable through the cycle . Today , our liquidity stands at approximately $1.4 billion , including cash undrawn revolving credit and our investment in DHT .
Speaker #5: Over the past four years , we've reduced our daily breakeven from roughly $17,500 per day to $12,500 per day . And with our recent decision to repay amortizing debt , we expect that figure to fall further to around $11,000 per day .
Emanuele Lauro: Over the past four years, we've reduced our daily cash breakeven from roughly $17,500 per day to $12,500 per day. With our recent decision to repay amortizing debts, we expect that figure to fall further to around $11,000 per day. Today, we will also announce a 5% increase in the quarterly dividend, and going forward, will continue to review the dividend at least annually. Our goal, as mentioned, is to make the dividend sustainable, durable, and steadily growing over time, rewarding shareholders while building a company that remains investable through the cycle. Shipping will always be volatile. That's its nature. Through our efforts of strengthening the balance sheet, lowering our breakeven, and increasing charter coverage, we've meaningfully reduced debt volatility. Looking ahead, we remain optimistic as our outlook for both crude and refined products remains constructive. With a modern fleet, robust liquidity, and a conservative balance sheet, Scorpio Tankers Inc.
Speaker #5: Today , we will also announce the 5% increase in the quarterly dividend , and going forward , we'll continue to review the dividend at least annually .
Speaker #5: Our goal , as mentioned , is to make the dividend sustainable , durable and steadily growing over time rewarding shareholders while building a company that remains investable through the cycle .
Speaker #5: Shipping will always be volatile . That's its nature , but through our efforts of strengthening the balance sheet , lower our break even and increase charter coverage with meaningfully reduced that volatility .
Speaker #5: Looking ahead , we remain optimistic as our outlook for both crude and refined products remains constructive . With a modern fleet , robust liquidity and the conservative balance sheet .
Speaker #5: Scorpio Tankers Inc is well positioned to navigate uncertainty and continue creating long term value for shareholders . With that , I'll turn the call to James for a brief presentation .
Emanuele Lauro: is well positioned to navigate uncertainty and continue creating long-term value for shareholders. With that, I'll turn the call to James for a brief presentation. James.
Speaker #5: James .
Speaker #4: Thanks , Emmanuel . Slide seven . Please . Product tanker rates remain firm and have increased over the last week with Mrs. earning around 28,000 per day .
James Doyle: Thanks, Emanuele. Slide 7, please. Product tanker rates remain firm and have increased over the last week with MRs earning around $28,000 per day and LR2s about $35,000 per day, levels that continue to generate substantial free cash flow for the company. Refining margins have strengthened, inventories remain low, and fourth quarter demand, excluding fuel oil, is expected to be nearly 900,000 barrels per day higher than last year. With seasonality turning in our favor, a strong crude market, and several near term catalysts emerging, the backdrop for product tank looks increasingly constructive as we move through year end. Slide 8, please. Despite significant refinery maintenance, over 8 million barrels per day offline in September and 10 million in October, seaborne exports have continued to rise.
Speaker #4: And Lr2 is about $35,000 per day levels that continue to generate substantial free cash flow for the company . Refining margins have strengthened , inventories remain low , and fourth quarter demand , excluding fuel oil , is expected to be nearly 900,000 barrels per day , higher than last year , with seasonality turning in our favor .
Speaker #4: A strong crude market and several near-term catalysts emerging . The backdrop for product tankers looks increasingly constructive as we move through year end .
Speaker #4: Slide eight . Please . Despite significant refinery maintenance , over 8 million barrels per day offline in September and 10 million in October , seaborne exports have continued to rise .
Speaker #4: In September , excluding Russian volumes , product exports averaged 20 million barrels per day , approximately 600,000 barrels per day , higher than the same month last year .
James Doyle: In September, excluding Russian volumes, product exports averaged 20 million barrels per day, approximately 600,000 barrels per day higher than the same month last year. Slide 9, please. A rise in drone attacks on Russian refinery capacity has reduced refined product exports from 1.5 million barrels per day to about 1 million, a decline of 30%. At the same time, OFAC's new sanctions on Rosneft and LUKOIL are expected to further disrupt Russian exports. Even before these measures took effect, Brazil's imports of Russian barrels had fallen sharply from 250,000 barrels per day to just 50,000, with much of the shortfall replaced by U.S. supply, a shift that lifted MR rates across the Atlantic Basin. In addition, importers of Russian products begin seeking alternative sources. Product tanker rates could tighten further. Slide 10, please. Increasing sanctions from OFAC, the EU, and UK have made exports more challenging.
Speaker #4: Slide nine please . A rise in drone attacks on Russian refinery capacity has reduced refined product exports from 1.5 million barrels per day to about 1 million , a decline of 30% .
Speaker #4: At the same time , Ofac's new sanctions on Rosneft and Lukoil are expected to further disrupt Russian exports . Even before these measures took effect , Brazil's imports of Russian barrels had fallen sharply from 250,000 barrels per day to just 50,000 , with much of the shortfall replaced by US supply .
Speaker #4: A shift that lifted Mr. rates across the Atlantic basin in addition , importers of Russian products began seeking alternative sources . Product tanker rates could tighten further .
Speaker #4: Slide ten please . Increasing sanctions from OFAC , the EU and UK have made exports more challenging . The rise in crude on the water has been driven primarily by sanctioned countries .
James Doyle: The rise in crude on the water has been driven primarily by sanctioned countries, Iran, Venezuela, and Russia, which together accounted for roughly 70% of the increase. The number of sanctioned vessels continues to grow, now representing nearly 8% of the MR fleet, 14% of the LR2 fleet, and 34% of the Aframax fleet. These vessels are on average almost 20 years old and are unlikely to return to non-sanctioned trades. As sanctions expand and enforcement tightens, additional vessels will likely be absorbed into these trades, further limiting available tonnage for legitimate cargoes. In short, the sanctioned fleet is large, old, and increasingly isolated, effectively shrinking the number of ships competing in the mainstream market. Slide 11, please. We continue to see closures in global refining capacity.
Speaker #4: Iran , Venezuela and Russia , which together accounted for roughly 70% of the increase . The number of sanctioned vessels continues to grow now representing nearly 8% of the Mr. fleet , 14% of the Lr2 fleet , and 34% of the Max fleet .
Speaker #4: These vessels are on average almost 20 years old and are unlikely to return to Non-sanctioned trades as sanctions expand and enforcement tightens , additional vessels will likely be absorbed into these trades , further limiting available tonnage for legitimate cargoes .
Speaker #4: In short , the sanctions fleet is large , old and increasingly isolated , effectively shrinking the number of ships competing in the mainstream market .
Speaker #4: Slide Please . We continue to see 11 . closures in global refining capacity over the past five years . Net capacity growth has been only 300,000 barrels per day , driven by additions in the Middle East and offset by closures in Europe and North America .
James Doyle: Over the past five years, net capacity growth has been only 300,000 barrels per day, driven by additions in the Middle East and offset by closures in Europe and North America. In California alone, 250,000 barrels per day of capacity is scheduled to close this year and in Q2 next year, which could effectively double U.S. West Coast product imports largely coming from Asia. These refinery closures and changes have been a key driver in ton-mile demand growth for product tankers. Slide 12, please. In October, China announced new fees on vessels calling at U.S. ports. As of this morning, it appears that Presidents Trump and Xi have agreed to postpone both the USTR tariffs and the Chinese port fees for up to a year if these measures were to return.
Speaker #4: In California alone , 250,000 barrels per day of capacity is scheduled to close this year and in Q2 next year , which could effectively double US West Coast product imports largely coming from Asia .
Speaker #4: These refinery closures and changes have been a key driver in ten mile demand growth for product tankers . Slide 12 . Please . In October , China announced new fees on vessels calling at US ports .
Speaker #4: As of this morning, it appears that President Trump and Xi have agreed to postpone both the USTR tariffs and the Chinese port fees for up to a year.
Speaker #4: If these measures were to return , China accounts for only about 3 to 4% of the global seaborne refined product market , and would not expect any material impact on the overall market .
James Doyle: China accounts for only about 3% to 4% of the global seaborne refined product market and we would not expect any material impact on the overall market. We will continue to monitor this situation closely. Slide 13, please. The product tanker order book currently stands at 18% of the existing fleet, a figure that may appear elevated at first glance, but context matters. New building activity has slowed considerably. Year to date, only 44 product tankers have been ordered. LR2s now make up almost half the current order book. However, 49% of LR2s currently on the water are trading crude oil, a trend we expect to continue. In short, effective fleet growth in clean products looks far more modest than headline numbers suggest. Slide 14, please.
Speaker #4: We will continue to monitor this situation closely . Slide 13 . Please . The product tanker order book currently stands at 18% of the existing fleet , a figure that may appear elevated at first glance , but context matters .
Speaker #4: New building activity has slowed considerably . Year to date , only 44 product tankers have been ordered . LR two is now make up almost half the current order book .
Speaker #4: However , 49% of Lr2 is currently on the water are trading crude oil , a trend we expect to continue . In short , effective fleet growth in clean products looks far more modest than headline numbers suggests .
Speaker #4: Slide 14 . Please . As shown in the left hand chart , a 20 year old vessel generates 50% fewer ton miles than a modern one , reflecting limitations in trading opportunities , efficiency and regulatory access .
James Doyle: As shown in the left-hand chart, a 20-year-old vessel generates 50% fewer ton-miles than a modern one, reflecting limitations in trading opportunities, efficiency, and regulatory access. The drop-off is even steeper, over 75%, if the vessel was not involved in Russian trade. This isn't a short-term story. Between 2003 and 2010, we saw significant expansion of the product tanker fleet. The result: a large cohort of vessels now approaching or surpassing 20 years of age. The chart on the right makes this clear. Including the order book, 17.8% of the fleet is over 20 years old. By 2028, that figure climbs to 31%. The implications are structural. The fleet is aging, utilization is falling, and effective supply is tightening, even without a dramatic increase in scrapping. Slide 15, please.
Speaker #4: The drop off is even steeper over 75% if the vessel was not involved in Russian trade . This is in a short term story .
Speaker #4: Between 2003 and 2010 , we saw significant expansion of the product , Tinker fleet , the result a large cohort of vessels now approaching or surpassing 20 years of age .
Speaker #4: The chart on the right makes this clear , including the order book 17.8% of the fleet is over 20 years old by 2028 .
Speaker #4: That figure climbs to 31% . The implications are structural . The fleet is aging , utilization is falling , and effective supply is tightening .
Speaker #4: Even without a dramatic increase in scrapping . Slide 15 . Please . Given the age profile of the fleet and the high share of Lr2 trading crude , actual fleet growth could be could prove lower than headline expectations .
James Doyle: Given the age profile of the fleet and the high share of LR2s trading crude, actual fleet growth could prove lower than headline expectations. Assuming no decline in utilization for vessels older than 20 years and a portion of LR2 New Gold's trading crude, effective fleet growth could average around 3.5% a year. However, adjusting for lower utilization on older ships, effective fleet growth could fall closer to 1% per year. In contrast, ton-mile demand has increased more than 20% since 2019, driven by refinery rationalization, shifting trade routes, and ongoing dislocation of global energy flows. We expect ton-miles to continue to outpace supply in both the short and long term. The market fundamentals remain strong, driven by structural shifts in global refining, longer trade routes, and an aging fleet. With that, I'd like to turn it over to Chris.
Speaker #4: Assuming no decline in utilization for vessels older than 20 years and a portion of Lr2 newbuilds trade in crude effectively , growth could average around 3.5% a year .
Speaker #4: However , adjusting for lower utilization on older ships , effective fleet growth could fall closer to 1% per year . In contrast , demand has increased more than 20% since 2019 , driven by refinery rationalization , shifting trade routes and ongoing dislocation of global energy flows .
Speaker #4: We expect ton miles to continue to outpace supply in both the short and long term . The market remain strong , driven by structural shifts in global refining , longer trade routes and an aging fleet .
Speaker #4: With that , I'd like to turn fundamentals it over to Chris .
Speaker #6: Thank you . James , and good morning or good afternoon , everyone . Slide 17 please . This quarter we generated $148.1 million in adjusted EBITDA .
Chris Avella: Thank you, James. Good morning or good afternoon everyone. Slide 17, please. This quarter we generated $148.1 million in adjusted EBITDA and $72.7 million, or $1.49 per diluted share, in adjusted net income. Our operating cash flow, excluding changes in working capital, was over $135 million this quarter and approximately $375 million on a year-to-date basis. We are pleased to announce both an increase in our quarterly dividend in addition to new agreements with our lenders to prepay the principal amortization on certain of our loans for $154.6 million in aggregate. This prepayment is expected to take place in the fourth quarter of 2025 and represents all of our scheduled loan amortization for 2026 and 2027.
Speaker #6: And $72.7 million , or $1.49 per diluted share , in adjusted net income . Our operating cash flow , excluding changes in working capital , was over $135 million this quarter .
Speaker #6: And approximately $375 million on a year to date basis . We are pleased to announce both an increase in our quarterly dividend . In addition to new agreements with our lenders to prepay the principal amortization on certain of our loans for $154.6 million in aggregate .
Speaker #6: This prepayment is expected to take place in the fourth quarter of 2025 , and represents all of our scheduled loan amortization for 2026 and 2027 .
Speaker #6: The principal and interest savings resulting from this prepayment will further reduce our cash break levels , which include vessel operating costs , cash , G&A , interest payments , and commitment fees , and regularly scheduled loan amortization to approximately $11,000 per day over this period .
Chris Avella: The principal and interest savings resulting from this prepayment will further reduce our cash breakeven levels, which include vessel operating costs, cash G&A, interest payments and commitment fees, and regularly scheduled loan amortization, to approximately $11,000 per day over this period. In addition to this, we continue to be opportunistic with our investment in DHT, having sold 5.3 million shares in September and October at over $12.50 per share. This is an almost 20% return on investment when factoring in dividends received.
Speaker #6: In addition to this , we continue to be opportunistic with our investment in DHT having sold 5.3 million shares in September and October at over $12.50 per share .
Speaker #6: This is an almost 20% return on investment when factoring in dividends received . The chart on the right shows our liquidity profile . As you can see , we have access to over $1.4 billion in liquidity as of today .
Robert Bugbee: The.
Chris Avella: Chart on the right shows our liquidity profile. As you can see, we have access to over $1.4 billion in liquidity as of today. Our liquidity consists of cash of $627 million along with $788 million of drawdown availability under three revolving credit facilities. Slide 18 please. The chart on the left shows the progression of our net debt since December 31, 2021, which has declined $2.7 billion to a net debt balance of $255 million. On a pro forma basis, our net debt position is $34 million, which takes into account the expected receipt of the October hire payment from the Scorpio pools, which are expected within the next two weeks, and the net proceeds from the sales of three vessels, which are expected to close in the fourth quarter. The chart on the right breaks down our outstanding debt by type.
Speaker #6: Our liquidity consists of cash of $627 million , along with $788 million of drawdown availability under three revolving credit facilities . Slide 18 please .
Speaker #6: The chart on the left shows the progression of our net debt since December 31st , 2021 , which has declined $2.7 billion to a net debt balance of $255 million on a pro forma basis , our net debt position is $34 million , which takes into account the expected receipt of the October higher payment from the Scorpio Pools , which are expected within the next two weeks , and the net proceeds from the sales of three vessels , which are expected to close in the fourth quarter .
Speaker #6: Chart on the right breaks down our outstanding debt by type . Starting at the bottom is our $69 million of legacy lease financing obligations on three vessels with ocean yield .
Chris Avella: Starting at the bottom is our $69 million of legacy lease financing obligations on three vessels with Ocean Yield. These leases are the most expensive financing in our debt structure with margins of over 400 basis points in June and July. We submitted notice to exercise the purchase options on these vessels. Two of the purchases are scheduled for December for $23.4 million each, and one purchase is scheduled for February for $18.9 million. In the middle is our secured bank debt with a lending group dominated by experienced European shipping lenders whom we have strong relationships with. As I mentioned, we expect to prepay $154.6 million of this debt in the fourth quarter of 2025. As a result of this prepayment, we will have no scheduled principal amortization on our existing debt for all of 2026 and 2027.
Speaker #6: These leases are the most expensive financing in our debt structure , with margins of over 400 basis points . In June and July , we submitted notice to exercise the purchase options on these vessels .
Speaker #6: Two of the purchases are scheduled for December for $23.4 million each , and one purchase is scheduled for February for $18.9 million . In the middle is our secured bank debt with a lending group dominated by experienced European shipping lenders , whom we have strong relationships with .
Speaker #6: As I mentioned , we expect to prepay $154.6 million of this debt in the fourth quarter of 2025 as a result of this prepayment , we will have no scheduled principal amortization on our existing debt for all of 2026 and 2027 .
Speaker #6: Further to this , $290 million of our $615 million of secured borrowings is drawn , revolving debt , an important tool that we can use if we want to repay the debt .
Chris Avella: Further to this, $290 million of our $615 million of secured borrowings is drawn revolving debt, an important tool that we can use if we want to repay the debt yet maintain access to the liquidity in the future. At the top is our $200 million five-year senior unsecured notes, which were issued in an oversubscribed offering in the Nordic bond market in January of this year at a 7.5% coupon rate. Slide 19 please. By the end of the first quarter of 2026, we expect to make a total of $234 million in unscheduled prepayments on our debt. $14 million of this amount has already been paid in advance of the pending sales of two vessels.
Speaker #6: Yet maintain access to the liquidity in the future . At the top is $200 million , five year senior unsecured notes , which were issued in an oversubscribed offering in the Nordic bond market in January of this year at a 7.5% coupon rate .
Speaker #6: Slide 19 please . By the end of the first quarter of 2026 , we expect to make a total of $234 million in unscheduled prepayments on our debt .
Speaker #6: $14 million of this amount has already been paid in advance of the pending sales of two vessels , and as I mentioned , we have committed to repay $65.7 million to exercise the purchase options on three lease financed vessels , along with $154.6 million across four different credit facilities to cover our scheduled loan amortization for 2026 and 2027 .
Chris Avella: As I mentioned, we have committed to repay $65.7 million to exercise the purchase options on three lease finance vessels, along with $154.6 million across four different credit facilities to cover our scheduled loan amortization for 2026 and 2027. The chart on the right is our dry dock estimates through the end of 2026. Our forward dry dock schedule is light after having undergone the special surveys on over 70% of our fleet in the last two years. Slide 20, please. Once we complete our unscheduled debt prepayments, our cash breakeven rates are expected to be at the lowest levels in the company's history.
Speaker #6: The chart on the right is our dry dock estimates through the end of 2026 . Our forward dry dock schedule is light . After having undergone the special surveys on over 70% of our fleet in the last two years .
Speaker #6: Slide 20 . Please . Once we complete our unscheduled debt . Prepayments , our cash breakeven rates are expected to be at the lowest levels in the company's history .
Speaker #6: The chart on the left shows that these expected cash breakeven rates are lower than the company's achieved daily TCE rates , dating all the way back to 2013 , with the closest point being the aftermath of the Covid 19 pandemic , when oil consumption was at lows not seen in decades .
Chris Avella: The chart on the left shows that these expected cash breakeven rates are lower than the company's achieved daily TCE rates dating all the way back to 2013, with the closest point being the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic, when oil consumption was at lows not seen in decades. To illustrate our cash generation potential at these cash breakeven levels, at $20,000 per day, the company can generate up to $315 million in cash flow per year. At $30,000 per day, the company can generate up to $666 million in cash flow per year. At $40,000 per day, the company can generate up to $1 billion in cash flow per year. This concludes our presentation for today. I would now like to turn the call over to Q&A.
Speaker #6: To illustrate , our cash generation potential at these cash break , even levels at $20,000 per day , the company can generate up to $315 million in cash flow per year at $30,000 per day , the company can generate up to $666 million in cash flow per year , and at $40,000 per day , the company can generate up to $1 billion in cash flow per year .
Speaker #6: This concludes our presentation for today . And now I'd like to turn the call over to Q&A .
Speaker #3: Thank you . We will now begin the question and answer session . To ask a question , you may press star , then one on your touchtone phone .
Operator: Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star, then one on your touchtone phone. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question, please press star, then two. At this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble a roster. First question comes from Omar Nokta with Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Speaker #3: If you are using a speakerphone , please pick up your handset before pressing the keys . If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question , please press star then two .
Speaker #3: At this time we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster . First question comes from Omar Mokhtar with Jefferies . Please go ahead .
Speaker #6: Thank you .
James Doyle: Thank you. Hey guys, good morning. Good afternoon. Thanks for the update. Obviously, very, very good detail. Clearly, Scorpio Tankers Inc. is in a very strong financial position, as kind of outlined throughout the call here and with Chris Avella here on the break evens. Just as we kind of think about Scorpio Tankers Inc. here, you've been building cash, paying down the debt. Break even is obviously coming down. You're putting Scorpio Tankers Inc. in the strongest financial position in its history and preparing for, say, the unknown, given the geopolitical environment. Maybe kind of thinking about the platform and how it is at the moment. Do you feel like you're building towards something here, something more significant for this balance sheet to be put to use at some point down the line? Do you think this is a bit more of a new normal for Scorpio Tankers Inc.
Speaker #7: Hey , guys . Good morning . Good afternoon . Thanks for the update . Obviously . Very , very good detail and clearly Scorpio is in a very strong financial position as kind of outlined throughout the call here .
Speaker #7: And with Chris here on the on the Breakevens . And just as we kind of think about Scorpio here , you've been building cash , paying down the debt .
Speaker #7: Breakevens obviously coming down , you're putting Scorpio in the strongest financial position in its history . And preparing for , say , the unknown , given the geopolitical environment , just maybe kind of thinking about the platform and how it is at the moment .
Speaker #7: Do you feel like you're building towards something here , something more significant for this balance sheet to be put to use at some point down the line , or do you think this is a bit more of a new normal for Scorpio to be in a net cash position long term , with an eye on , you know , keeping that dividend sustainable throughout the cycles ?
James Doyle: to be in a net cash position long term with an eye on keeping that dividend sustainable throughout the cycles?
Speaker #8: It's a great question . So I think that that's the last bit first . That's the easy one . We're we're very convinced that there the right thing we should do is to maintain a , you know , a regular dividend and have a dividend that is clearly sustainable .
Robert Bugbee: It's a great question, Alma. I think that's the last bit first. That's the easy one. We're very convinced that the right thing we should do is to maintain a regular dividend and have a dividend that is fairly sustainable. To do that, a strong balance sheet. We have to be able to show like we can do. As Chris has gone through that, we can clearly go through the absolute bottom of the cycle and still maintain that dividend. The second aspect as to whether we are building things for long term, et cetera, et cetera, is the honest answer is that we've been focused on getting the debt down, getting the cash breakeven down, getting ourselves into the position that we're in right now. Chris is indicating that very soon we'll start to move to, you know, net debt negative or building of cash.
Speaker #8: And so to do that , you we've , you know , by definition . A strong balance sheet . And we have to be able to show like we can do and have Chris has gone through that .
Speaker #8: We can clearly , you know , go through the the absolute bottom of the , the cycle and still maintain that that dividend .
Speaker #8: The second aspect is to whether we are building things for long term , etc. , etc. , is the honest , honest answer is that we've been focused on getting the debt down , getting the cash breakeven down , getting ourselves into the that we're in right now .
Speaker #8: Chris is indicating that very soon we'll start to move to , you know , you know , net debt , negative or building a cash .
Speaker #8: And that simply by definition , gives you , you know . Writing , you maintain overall discipline , gives you tremendous options . It allows you to to go in to at any different point in the market .
Robert Bugbee: That simply by definition gives you, you know, providing you maintain overall discipline, gives you tremendous options. It allows you to go into at any different point in the market. It allows you to properly, if you wanted to renew your fleet, for example, without changing your leverage very much. As Chris was pointing out that even at very low rates, we'd still be generating tremendous cash flow. I think that's the best way to answer it.
Speaker #8: It allows you to properly , you know , if you wanted to renew your fleet , for example , without without changing your leverage very much , as you know , as Chris was pointing out , that even at very low rates , we'd still be generating tremendous , cash flow .
Speaker #8: But it so I position think that's the best way to answer it .
Speaker #7: Thanks , Is , you know , question that's come up in the past . And , you know , when does it when does it make sense , do you think to start buying ships to offset perhaps some of the sales of the older ones ?
Speaker #7: Robert . That clearly . No , that's helpful . And and I guess maybe just a follow up and I'll pass it on .
James Doyle: Thanks, Robert. That's helpful, and I guess maybe just a follow up. I'll pass it on. It's a question that's come up in the past. When does it make sense, you think, to start buying ships to offset perhaps some of the sales of the older ones? You've clearly got critical mass, but are you content to keep kind of scaling back a bit, selling some more of the older ones without replacing?
Speaker #7: You've clearly got critical mass , but are you content to keep kind of scaling back a bit , selling some more of the older ones without replacing ?
Speaker #8: I think we have different , different situation right now . You know , we're very soon . We're getting to that primary objective where , you know , we get we're we're able to create that balance sheet , take the debt , write down and you know , Vic and Chris are showing outlines whereby we can prevent principal etc.
Robert Bugbee: I think we have a different situation right now. Very soon we're getting to that primary objective where we're able to create that balance sheet, take the debt right down. Vic and Chris are showing outlines whereby we can prepay principal, et cetera, lowering that cash down. That part is kind of finished. Now you're really left to mathematics. Mathematics would be, I'll give you an example. We don't need to renew for renewal's sake. There's no point in that. We also have consistently said we are confident in the product market. Our last call was we are confident that the latter half of the year will be very strong, that the fundamentals are there and that's playing out. Lars will probably go into that later. The market is, as we expected, strengthening and strengthening quite significantly.
Speaker #8: , lowering that cash down . So that part is kind of finished . So now you're really left to mathematics . You know , mathematics would be I'll give you an example is you don't we don't need to renew for renewal sake .
Speaker #8: There's no point in that . We also are consistently said that we are confident in the product market . Our last call was we are confident that the , you know , latter half of the year will be very strong and that the fundamentals are there .
Speaker #8: And that's playing out . The laws will probably go into later . The market is as we expected , strengthening and strengthening , you know , quite significantly now across the tanker space .
Robert Bugbee: Now across the tanker space, though we have no necessities, it's a question of choice. The easiest position one could look at is, let's say you could get a great, it's where the curve is. You might be able to get a great price for older vessels in your fleet, for example. Then maybe you get a place in line with somebody. You're not necessarily ordering yourself, but you may be able to get a prompt new vessel or a delivery or something like that, where mathematically the curve is such that your newer vessel has far greater value both in its operational specification and age compared to the older vessel. Older vessels, if they start to move towards 15, we haven't got many of those left, but as they do, they start to depreciate like options do much more rapidly. That's a mathematical example.
Speaker #8: So . We have no necessity . So it's a question of choice . So the easiest position one could look at is , you know , let's say you could get a great it's where the curve is .
Speaker #8: You might be able to great price for older vessels in your fleet for example . And you know , then maybe you get a place in line with somebody , you know , you're not necessarily you ordering yourself , but you may be able to get a prompt new vessel or a delivery or something like that , where mathematically , the curve is such that you're newer vessel has far greater value , both in its operational specification and age compared get a to , you know , the older vessel , which older vessels , as they start to move towards 15 , we haven't got many of those left , but as they do , you know , they start to , you know , depreciate like options , do much more rapidly .
Speaker #8: But that's a mathematical example . So , you know , I think now I don't think you but at the same time we would if someone offered us a great price for , you know , our older vessel .
Robert Bugbee: I think now, I don't think you, at the same time, we would, if someone offered us a great price for our older vessels, sure, we would sell them because that's the smart thing to do to maintain the optionality. I think the optionality for a company in shipping, anybody, whether it's investors or it's companies, is value. That optionality is underrated strategically.
Speaker #8: Sure . We would sell them because that's the that's the smart thing to do to maintain the optionality . I think that optionality for a company in shipping anybody , whether whether it's investors or it's or it's companies , is value that optionality is underrated strategically .
Speaker #7: Yeah . Yeah , certainly no good . Well very good . Thanks , Robert . Thanks , guys . I'll pass it back .
James Doyle: Yeah, certainly, no good. That's all very good. Thanks, Robert. Thanks, guys. I'll pass it back.
Speaker #3: The next question comes from Ken Hoexter with Bank of America . Please go ahead .
Operator: The next question comes from Can Hoekster with Bank of America, please go ahead.
Speaker #9: Hi . This is Tim Chang on for Ken Hoexter . Thanks for taking my question . Obviously been a very constructive market for product tankers fundamentally recently with record levels of seaborne exports .
Robert Bugbee: This is Tim Chang on for Ken Hexter. Thanks for taking my question. Obviously been a very constructive market for product tankers fundamentally recently with record levels of seaborne exports. How do you see rates progress? Is there a way you see rates progressing higher than levels with little under half of the days booked quarter to date and maybe just a little bit more color on what pushes them there over the next 40 to 60 days. Know you've spoken to the OPEC production cut unwind, increased sanctions, seasonally stronger period. Maybe some more detail on how importers of Russian product would be seeking alternative products. Lars, you want to take that?
Speaker #9: How do you see rates progressing? Is there a way you see rates progressing higher than levels with little under half of the days booked quarter to date? And maybe just a little bit more color on what pushes them there over the next 40 to 60 days.
Speaker #9: Now , know you've spoken to the OPEC production cut online , increased sanctions , the seasonally stronger period , maybe some more detail on how importers of Russian product would be seeking alternative products .
Speaker #8: Guys want to take that ?
Speaker #10: Yeah , sure . I mean , just take a step , step back first . Q3 . Has , you know , kind of surprised to the upside .
Lars Dencker Nielsen: Yeah, sure. I mean, we just took a step back first. You know, Q3 has kind of surprised to the upside. We hadn't seen as much of a seasonal summer lull as you normally would. You know, there were a lot of refineries that were kind of turnarounds and we anticipated a drop in rates across the board. We did see that drop in rates and we're at the tail end of those refinery turnarounds now. I think we have another 5 million barrels of capacity that's coming on stream in November that's going to supercharge the clean market. There's a combination of factors to why I'm quite constructive the product tanker market. First of all, OPEC has played a role in terms of starting to come to market with opening up the taps.
Speaker #10: We hadn't seen as much of a seasonal summer lull as you normally would do. You know, there were a lot of refineries that were kind of in turnarounds.
Speaker #10: And we anticipated a drop in rates across the board . We did that drop in rates . And , you know , we're at the tail end of those refinery turnarounds now .
Speaker #10: And I think we have another 5 million barrels of capacity that's coming on stream in November . That's going to supercharge the clean market .
Speaker #10: But there's a combination of factors to why I'm quite constructive . The product tanker market , first of all , OPEC has played a role in terms of starting to come to market with opening up the taps .
Speaker #10: The whole issue around Russia has become a real important thing . As you look at how now the Americans have also come in to to sanction the barrels and those sanctions and barrels have certainly had a market follow through on the see crude markets .
Lars Dencker Nielsen: The whole issue around Russia has become a really important thing as you look at how now the Americans have also come in to sanction the barrels. Those sanctioning barrels have certainly had a market follow through on the crude markets. If you look at the crude markets first before going to products, the VLCC markets today have ramped up to a very high level. So have the Suezmaxes and the Aframaxes as well. We have also seen a sudden change in interest from LR2 owners to move into Aframax's account. From September, probably around 18 ships have already dirtied up. It wouldn't surprise me that there's going to be another five or ten ships in short order that's going to start moving into the Atlantic Basin into dirty. This obviously will tighten the product market as well. You've got more product coming into the market.
Speaker #10: If you look at the crude markets first before going to products , now , the VLC markets today have have ramped up to a very high level .
Speaker #10: So has the Suez Maxes and the maxes as well . We have also seen a a sudden change in interest from L2 owners to move into Aframax .
Speaker #10: As I count , from September , probably around 18 ships have already dirtied up . It wouldn't surprise me that there's going to be another 5 or 10 ships in a short order .
Speaker #10: That's going to start moving into the Atlantic basin , into dirty . This obviously will kind of tighten the product market as well .
Speaker #10: So you've got more product coming into the market . You've got a tightening of supply and the market that where the product is coming is primarily the AG and also the US Gulf , where we're going to start seeing a lot of ton movements because of the sanctioning of barrels that people are now going to start securing supply from further afield .
Lars Dencker Nielsen: You've got a tightening of supply and the market where the product is coming is primarily the AG and also the U.S. Gulf where we're going to start seeing a lot of ton-mile movements because of the sanctioning of barrels that people are now going to start securing supply from further afield. I mean, Brazil is now taking more product out of U.S. Gulf rather than the Russian barrel and so on. It is clear to me that we are just on the cusp of the bottom of that market. The LR2 market has moved up tremendous and will continue to do so. I envisage over the next couple of.
Speaker #10: I mean , Brazil is now taking more product out of out of US Gulf rather than the Russian barrel . And so on .
Speaker #10: It is clear to me that that we are just on the cusp of of the bottom of that market , the Lr2 market has moved up tremendously and will continue to do so .
Speaker #10: I envisage over the next couple of weeks . The that both from the Middle East , going west , and that's the Middle East going east .
Chris Avella: Weeks.
Lars Dencker Nielsen: That's both from the Middle East going west and that's Middle East going east TC1, but it's also certainly the west moving to the east, which has also moved up progressively over the last week. The same thing goes also with a very strong but volatile market in the U.S. Gulf. We can see underlying strength as the utilization level of the refineries are starting to creep up after their turnarounds in the U.S. Gulf, underpinned by this longer haul business. There is all the ingredients for the market as we move properly into Q4 to see a certain rebound. It's now firing on all cylinders. It's not only on the crude, which has been the headline over the last 48 hours, but it's certainly, I can see, on the product market as well. We're going to see a strong ramp up into Q4 proper.
Speaker #10: TC1 but it's also certainly the the West moving to the east , which is also moved up progressively over the last week . The same thing goes also with a very strong but volatile market in the US Gulf .
Speaker #10: And we can see underlying strength as the utilization level of the refineries are starting to creep up after their turnarounds in the US Gulf .
Speaker #10: And then underpinned by this longer haul business . So there is all the ingredients for the market as we move properly into Q4 to see a rebound .
Speaker #10: And it's now firing on all cylinders. It's not only on the crude, which has been the headline over the last 48 hours, but it's certainly also on the product market as well.
Speaker #10: We're going to see a strong ramp up into Q4 proper . At the same time , I would also just add this is an interesting combination because you know what we have seen in years gone by as we move into January and February , people talk about cannibalization of new building with virgin tanks from via Suezmaxes Aframaxes that are not coded , which I have to be honest , is very few today because everybody's building can see aframaxes with coded tanks due to the price .
Lars Dencker Nielsen: At the same time, I would also just add this is an interesting combination because you know what we have seen years gone by. As we move into January and February, people talk about cannibalization of new building with virgin tanks from VL Suezmaxes, Aframaxes that are not coated, which I have to be honest is very few today because everybody's building Aframaxes with coated tanks due to the price. Those vessels, probably with the market trading TD3 at Worldscale 125, will probably think twice to take on a clean cargo at a discount at a lower demarcate than trading, you know, $130,000 on pure round voyage. I also envisage a lesser degree of cannibalization, which will also underpin a very strong follow through as we move into Q1.
Speaker #10: But those vessels , probably with the market trading CD3 at 125 , would probably think twice to take on a clean cargo at a discount at a lower rate than trading .
Speaker #10: You know . 141 30,000 $130,000 on pure round voyage . So I also envisage a lesser degree of cannibalization , which will also underpin a very strong follow through as we move into Q1 .
Speaker #9: That's very helpful .
Speaker #11: If I , if I , if I can .
Speaker #8: Just add to that . So I think what the laws on behalf of the company is saying . So we , we're now he's now moving or we are moving as a group from you know , the last let's say public discussion that we were confident that the market would strengthen into the into the end of the year .
Robert Bugbee: If I can just add to that. I think what Lars on behalf of the company is saying is he's now moving, or we are moving as a group, from the last, let's say, public discussion that we were confident that the market would strengthen into the end of the year. Lars is now creating a position where we see that there's a strong chance now of the market being very strong into the first quarter as well, through that first quarter, because of the dynamics he's outlaid. Thank you both, appreciate the insight.
Speaker #8: Lars is now creating a position where , you know , we see that there's a strong chance now of the market being very strong into the first quarter as well .
Speaker #8: And through that first quarter, because of the dynamics, it's outlined.
Speaker #9: Thank you . Both . Appreciate the insight .
Speaker #3: The next question comes from Chris Robertson with Georgia Bank . Please go ahead .
Operator: The next question comes from Chris Robertson with Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.
Speaker #12: Hi . Good morning everybody . Thank you for taking my questions . I just wanted to turn towards you guys mentioned , you know , you had extensive number of dry docks completed during 2025 .
Chris Avella: Hi, good morning everybody. Thank you for taking my questions. I just wanted to turn towards you guys mentioned, you know, you had extensive number of dry docks completed during 2025. I wanted to touch on that just in terms of asking what types of uplifts and efficiency that you've realized from those dry docks this year, and is that translating into slightly higher rate premiums or can you speak to the details around that.
Speaker #12: I wanted to touch on that just in terms of asking what types of uplifts and efficiency that you've you've realized from those dry docks this year ?
Speaker #12: And is that translating into a slightly higher rate premiums , or can you speak to the details around that ? Sure .
Cameron Mackey: Sure, I'm happy to take that. You know, the drydocks in themselves did not involve a great deal of CapEx because we already think the designs for our vessels are sufficiently economical, fuel efficient, etc. Really it's much more about general maintenance. The coatings of the vessels, the friction, not only exogenous but endogenous to the hull and getting that back to a place where you're really resetting the vessel back to something similar to what it was five years before. The effect and the bottom line impact is immediate, like I said, because you're basically resetting the ship to a condition it was five years before. Until we have line of sight on the return of a host of additional CapEx possibilities and what their returns actually mean, there's a lot of hyperbole, smoke and mirrors about uplifts and other efficiency steps one could undertake.
Speaker #13: I'm happy to take that . You know , the dry docks in in themselves did not did not involve a great deal of CapEx because we already think the designs for our vessels are sufficiently economical , fuel efficient , etc.
Speaker #13: it really it's much more about general maintenance . The coatings of the vessels , the friction , not only exogenous , but endogenous to the hull .
Speaker #13: And getting that back to a place where you really resetting the vessel back to something similar to what it was five years before the effect and the bottom line impact is immediate .
Speaker #13: Like I said , because you're basically resetting the ship to a condition . It was five years before , but until we have line of sight on the return of a host of additional CapEx possibilities and what the returns actually mean , there's a lot of hyperbole , smoke and mirrors about uplifts and other efficiency .
Speaker #13: Steps . One could undertake . But until we really have line of sight and the benefit of more data in that area , we're not going to be spending shareholders money on those types of of gambles .
Cameron Mackey: Until we really have line of sight and the benefit of more data in that area, we're not going to be spending shareholders' money on those types of gambles.
Speaker #12: Got it . Interesting . Okay . Thank you . My next question is just related to Chinese export quotas for next year . If you guys have a view around , you know , the increasing amount of refining capacity in China , it doesn't seem to have kept pace with the quotas being kept flattish this year .
Chris Avella: Got it. Interesting. Okay, thank you. My next question is just related to Chinese export quotas for next year.
Robert Bugbee: If you guys have a view around.
Chris Avella: The increasing amount of refining capacity in China doesn't seem to have kept pace with the quotas being kept flat-ish this year, slightly down. Do you have a view around next year and what they might do? Do you think there's a possibility that we'll see increased quotas from China next year?
Speaker #12: Slightly down . Do you have a view around next year and what they might do ? And do you think there's a possibility that we'll see increased quotas from China next year ?
Speaker #10: I'll start and then maybe James James .
Lars Dencker Nielsen: I'll start, then go ahead, James. Go ahead, James.
Speaker #4: Thanks , maybe . Lars , you can add so we saw the last quota increase in September , which is , as you highlighted , Chris , pretty consistent with what's been announced in the past .
James Doyle: Thanks, Lars. Maybe, Lars, you can add. We saw the last quota increase in September, which is, as you highlighted, Chris, pretty consistent with what's been announced in the past. I think the interesting part is if you look at the Chinese data, total crude imports and domestic production were around 15.9 million barrels in September and runs were 15.4. The crude build was only about 400,000 to 500,000 barrels per day. To answer your question, I think we would need to see it in the crude volumes first. A lot of this production and quota system is really determined by the government, and in previous periods where crack spreads two years ago were very, very high, they didn't export. It's a tough one for us to kind of predict.
Speaker #4: I think the interesting part is , if you look at when you look at the Chinese data , total crude imports and domestic production were around 15.9 million barrels in September , and runs were 15.4 .
Speaker #4: So the crude build was only about 4 to 500,000 barrels per day . So to answer your question , I think we would need to see it in the crude volumes first .
Speaker #4: But a lot of this production and quota system is really determined by the government . And in previous periods where crack spreads . Two years ago were very , very high .
Speaker #4: They didn't export . So it's a tough one for us to kind of predict .
Speaker #12: Okay , fair enough . Thanks , James .
Chris Avella: Okay, fair enough. Thanks, James.
Speaker #3: The next question comes from Liam Burke with B Riley FBR . Please go ahead .
Operator: The next question comes from Liam Burke with B. Riley. Please go ahead.
Speaker #14: Yes . Thank you . Good morning . You've been very clear about the benefits of of deleveraging and your plans to do so .
Chris Avella: Yes, thank you. Good morning. You've been very clear about the benefits of deleveraging and your plans to do so and the reasons why. Where do buybacks come into the capital allocation equation as we move forward here?
Speaker #14: And the reasons why . But where do buybacks come into the capital allocation equation as we , as we move forward here .
Speaker #8: I don't think we'd ever say when the buybacks come into the equation , we you know , we have the ability to to act whenever we want to .
Robert Bugbee: I don't think we'd ever say. When the buybacks come into the equation, we have the ability to act whenever we want to. We're not going to wave a flag and say, hey guys, this is when we're going to buy back. Let me remind you, we're $2 away from that or we're $100 million of cash away from that. That's not. We're not. I think we'll pass on that question if you don't mind.
Speaker #8: I mean , we're not going to wave a flag and say , hey guys , this is when we're going to buy back .
Speaker #8: And you know , I'll let me remind you with , you know , $2 away for that or we're $100 million of cash away from that .
Speaker #8: That's not material . We're not . I think we'll pass on that question . If you don't mind .
Chris Avella: Okay, that's fair. As we go into the stronger period, sometime we have 30 tankers trading clean. Is that going to be just part of the everyday business, or do you anticipate strength in the crude market to keep that part of the fleet dirty?
Speaker #10: The Okay .
Speaker #10: short answer to that , That's yeah , the short answer to that is yes . We anticipate , you know , it's it's quite expensive for a vlcc to clean up to trade , trade , clean .
Lars Dencker Nielsen: The short answer to that, Liam, is yes, we anticipate that it's quite expensive for VLCC to clean up, to trade clean. The last time we saw that was, of course, when the LR2 market suddenly spiked to about $8 million for an AG West run and the VLCC market was languishing at around $20,000 a day, where the spread was so wide that it was beneficial for a VLCC owner to clean up. That margin certainly has flipped. There is no VLCC owner or Aframax owner that's going to go and think about cleaning up at this point in time. It certainly is going to be the other way around. We will start seeing, as I said earlier, probably a number of more ships going into the dirty market, further restricting supply on LR2s.
Speaker #10: The last time we saw that was , of course , when the Lr2 market suddenly spiked to about $8 million for an AG West run and the VLC market was languishing at around $20,000 a day , where the spread was so wide that was beneficial for a vlcc owner to to clean up that margin certainly has flipped .
Speaker #10: it
Speaker #10: There is no vlcc owner or aframax owner that's going to go and think about cleaning up at this point in time . It's certainly is going to be the other way around .
Speaker #10: And we will start seeing a as I said earlier , probably a number of more ships going into the to the dirty market , further restricting supply on Lr2 .
Speaker #10: .
Chris Avella: Great. Thank you, Lars. Thank you, Robert.
Speaker #14: .
Speaker #8: Thank you .
Robert Bugbee: Thank you.
Speaker #3: The question comes from Jonah Shum with Clarkson . Please go ahead .
Operator: The last question comes from Jonas Shum with Clarkson Securities. Please go ahead.
Speaker #10: Hey guys .
Chris Avella: Hey guys, good morning and good afternoon. Thank you for hosting the presentation and taking my question. Looking at the broader shipping space, there's been quite a bit of deleveraging across most segments, I would say, but you have been really kind of leading the way. You've been cutting that from around $3 billion in 2021 to less than $300 million today. If you include the transactions that are set to close, I guess this quarter, it looks like it could be going to be in a net cash position already by this year's end. At the same time, you also have kind of a relatively young fleet compared to the sector average. My question, as you now reach this kind of very conservative leverage profile with still a young fleet, is there any kind of limits to how low leverage you would like leverage to go?
Speaker #15: Good morning and good afternoon . Thank you for hosting the presentation and taking my questions . So looking at the broader shipping space , there's been quite a bit of delivery across most , most segments .
Speaker #15: I would say . But do you have been really kind of leading the way . You've been cutting that that from around 3,000,000,000 in 2021 to less than 300 million today .
Speaker #15: And if you include the transactions that are set to close , I guess this quarter , it looks like you could kind of be in a net cash position already by this year's end .
Speaker #15: And at the same time , you also have kind of a relatively young fleet compared to the sector average . So so my question as you now reach this kind of very conservative liberal profile with still a young fleet , is there any kind of limits to how low leverage you would like leverage to go and and I guess that is also kind of related to my first question .
Chris Avella: I guess that this is also kind of related to Omar's first question. How should we think about your considerations around fleet renewal versus growth and the shareholder returns? How would you balance this going forward?
Speaker #15: How how should we think about kind of your considerations around fleet renewal versus growth and the shareholder returns ? How how how would you balance this going forward ?
Speaker #8: I that I think first of all , it's echo what I said to oh , first , by the way , thank you very much for your credit report .
Robert Bugbee: First of all, thank you very much for your credit report. It was, we thought it was very constructive and very well done. I'd like to echo what I said to Omar earlier that I think people underestimate the value of optionality and a strong balance sheet. An increasingly strong balance sheet provides great optionality in different circumstances. You can always buy ships, you can always buy stock. Sometimes, very rarely, has the public side of the shipping industry had the ability to take opportunities of geopolitical crisis, almost never. Many times those crises themselves have resulted in bankruptcy of public shipping companies or severe stress. Right now we have indicated over and over again that we considered that there is a high degree of geopolitical and economic uncertainty out there. Only yesterday, the Fed itself in the U.S. doesn't know whether it's coming or going.
Speaker #8: It was it was I we thought it was very constructive and very well done . So I'd like to echo what I said to alma earlier that somebody earlier that I think people underestimate the value of optionality .
Speaker #8: And a strong balance sheet and increasingly strong balance sheet provides great optionality in different circumstances . You can always buy ships . You can always buy stock .
Speaker #8: But you know , sometimes people very rarely has the public side of the shipping industry had the ability to take opportunities of geopolitical crisis , almost never .
Speaker #8: And many times those crises themselves have resulted in bankruptcy of public shipping companies or severe stress . And right now we are indicated over and over again that we considered that there is a high degree of geopolitical and economic uncertainty out there .
Speaker #8: Only yesterday . I mean , the fed itself in the United States doesn't know whether it's coming or going . You know , it goes from , oh , we're going to have more interest cuts before , you know , at the end of the first quarter to , well , we have to warn you , we may not even have one in December .
Robert Bugbee: It goes from, oh, we're going to have two more interest cuts before the end of the first quarter to, we have to warn you, we may not even have one in December, and they can't. They're still trying to balance between inflation and potential recession. That's not to mention all the other things in the world that are worrying. You've got countries in Europe in a lot of crisis. We are extremely confident in the actual product market itself and we are uncertain in the geopolitical position. At this particular point, theoretically there isn't much of a limit at the moment. You could just pile on cash every single day. There's no urgency to buy stock. There's no requirement, as you pointed out, to buy other assets. You have the ability to do both depending on what situations there are and how your whole view looks at the moment.
Speaker #8: And they can't they're still trying to balance between inflation and and potential recession . And that's not to mention all the other things in the world that are worrying .
Speaker #8: And you've got countries in Europe and a lot of crisis . We are extremely confident in the actual product market itself . And we are uncertain in the geopolitical position .
Speaker #8: So at this particular point , you know , theoretically , there isn't much of a limit at the moment . You could just pile on cash every single day .
Speaker #8: There's no there's no urgency to buy stock . There's no requirement . As you pointed out , to buy other assets . But you have the ability to do both depending on what situations there are and how your whole view looks at the moment .
Speaker #8: There's no rush . I mean , it's it's not a bad you know , we've only just achieved this position . That's pretty special .
Robert Bugbee: There's no rush. We've only just achieved this position that's pretty special. I don't think I've ever seen a public shipping company that's had too much cash. I really haven't.
Speaker #8: So I don't think there's any I don't think I've ever seen a public shipping company that's had too much cash . I really haven't .
Chris Avella: No, that's a good point. Thank you. Yeah. In terms of just more of a housekeeping question, I guess you have agreed with your banks to prepay $155 million of debt. Is that, could you kind of break that down in the different facilities and how much will then be available for free liquidity? Sure, I'm happy to do that. In terms of the facilities, it's, we have our $94 million credit facility, that's $19 million. Our $1 billion credit facility, that's $92 million. Our $117 million credit facility, that's $34 million. And our $49 million credit facility, that's $9 million. Of that amount, $7 million is going to be revolving. It'll be paid into part of the revolving facilities. The rest is term debt that we cannot redraw. Hope that answers your question. Good. Yes, thank you. Highly appreciate it. I return the call back to you.
Speaker #15: That's a that's a good point . Thank you . Yeah . And then in terms of just more housekeeping question , I guess you have agreed with your banks to prepay 155 million of debt .
Speaker #15: Is that could you kind of break that down in the different facilities ? And how much will then be available for , for free liquidity ?
Speaker #6: Sure . I happy to do that terms of the facilities . It's we have our $94 million credit facility . That's $19 million or billion dollar credit facility .
Speaker #6: That's $92 million or $117 million credit facility . That's $34 million . And our $49 million credit facility , that's $9 million of that amount , $7 million is going to be revolving .
Speaker #6: So it'll be paid into part of the revolving facilities . The rest is term debt that we cannot redraw . Hope that answers your question .
Speaker #15: Yes . Thank you . I really appreciate it . I returned it back to you .
Speaker #3: Thank you . This concludes our question and answer session . I would like to turn the conference back over to Emanuele Lauro for any closing remarks .
Operator: Thank you. This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Emanuele Lauro for any closing remarks.
Speaker #16: Thank you . I don't have any closing remarks .
Robert Bugbee: Thank you.
Emanuele Lauro: I don't have any closing remarks, apart from thanking everybody for the time dedicated to us today and look forward to catching up soon. Thanks very much.
Speaker #5: Apart from thanking .
Speaker #16: Everybody for .
Speaker #5: The time dedicated to us today , and look forward to catching up soon . Thanks very much .
Operator: The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect. Thank you.
Robert Bugbee: Sa.