Q3 2025 Rockwool AS Earnings Call
Welcome to <unk> conference call regarding the results for the first nine months of 2025. My name is <unk> and I'm. The CFO of HOK. What is today I am pleased to present CEO useful tension.
For the first part of this call all participants will be in listen only mode as.
As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded first yes, we'll go through our presentation and give you an update of the results for the first nine months and third quarter of 2025.
Afterwards, we will be ready to answer all your questions.
Before I hand over to the world to yes, I must ask you to notice site number two which is a forward looking statement. Please be aware that this presentation contains uncertainties.
Now we can go to the next slide which is slide number three yes, and I'll hand over to you.
Good morning, everyone.
And I'll start on slide number three.
As you all know the construction industry is still challenged in the macro context.
Turning to uncertainty geopolitical turmoil and continued hesitation in the market.
We don't expect this to change in the near term.
Revenue in the first nine months increased 1% in local currencies.
The acquisitions, we made in October 24 contribute route with a 2% increase in local currencies.
So excluding acquisitions group revenue decreased slightly.
Pricing had a 1% impact in the first nine months and impact from inflation was thus offset but the sales price increases.
The EBIT margin declined 2.1 percentage points.
Overall, we think the result is acceptable given the very difficult market circumstances.
Next slide is our Q3 highlights.
Revenue in Q3 increased two percentage.
Present in local currencies.
Excluding acquisitions group revenue growth was flat.
In Q3 sales and earnings were negatively affected by a short term sales decrease in the U K, where large flat roof projects were canceled or postponed.
In addition, a longer than planned production stopped reduced available capacity in the U K market.
At the beginning of Q4 UK sales were back to normal levels.
In Canada, which has been hard hit by the tariff situation. The construction market is in a challenging period.
Here, we don't foresee any quick recovery.
On the EBIT margin. The Q3 result was affected by three main factors.
The lower performance in the important unprofitable U K market rich.
Reduced efficiency and several factors as well as a decline in operating cost leverage.
Last but not least a continued decline in the Russian business.
All in all and in short it was a challenging environment in Q3, but I believe we navigated it well.
I will jump to slide five and go directly to Q3 revenue.
So slide six.
The continued decrease in Russia had a negative impact of two percentage points.
Percentage points in Q3, excluding Russia and acquisitions the group revenue increased two percentage points in the quarter, hence, 2% organic growth ex Russia.
On the insulation segment revenue increased 3% percent in local currency with strong sales performance, notably in Poland in.
In Romania in Spain in Italy, and importantly, also in France.
Excluding Russia, the insulation segment revenue increased 5%.
Just to repeat acquisitions contributed with a 2% revenue growth.
In the system segment, the 1% revenue decrease in the quarter was driven primarily by challenges in the grow Dan business.
Slide seven where I will talk about our regional revenue for the quarter.
In Western Europe, there was a double digit growth in Italy, a double digit growth in Spain in the quarter.
On the negative side, the Germany declined as did U K as I just previously noted on the previous slide.
In France importantly, the revenue is back to a growth slight growth, but our growth after several quarters with the clients.
And in eastern Europe, many countries or back to real growth, including Poland and Romania.
Russia continues with double digit revenue decrease.
Year to date Q3, Russia accounted for around 7% of the total group revenue in reported figures.
In the United States. We're also back to good growth wireless I said before the Canadian market is facing headwinds from the trade tensions ongoing.
In Asia revenue, excluding the 24 acquisition increased slightly however, sales in China decreased double digits.
Slide number eight.
A few comments to our Q3 profitability.
In short the EBITDA is down 11%.
From 241 million Euro to chew on in 15 million Euro.
This results in a 2.9 percentage point below what you'd be their margin due to unfavorable country and product mix.
Reduced efficiency in several factories as well as a decline in operating cost leverage also contributed to the lower EBITDA margin.
Yeah.
The lower the sorry, the longer than planned shutdown of our factory in Wales, and the slowdown in the market had a 5 million your impact in the quarter compared to the previous forecast.
And the lower sales in Canada, obviously also reduced earnings.
The continued decrease in Russia had a round of one percentage point impact on the group EBIT margin.
So EBIT margin at.
At 15.5% down two six percentage points.
Considering the global situation again, we believe these results are acceptable although from a very mixed performance in bay different market situations.
Slide number nine.
A little bit about the profitability by business segments.
Talk about the insulation segment first looking at profitability here EBIT margin in insulation segment was down 2.2 percentage points compared to last year.
And the system segment EBIT margin decreased one percentage point from lower earnings in court date.
And the Canadian business is challenged by lower volumes in the medical cannabis market and an unfavorable product mix coming from the lower margin vegetable business.
Slide number 10.
Our investment activities.
And just in short our biggest investments in Q3 related to the electrification of production lines in the Netherlands, and in France, and what we've previously talked about the capacity expansion in Romania.
As well as the large factory project in the United States.
A few comments to our cash flow on slide 11.
Our net cash position, we landed at 100 million Euro of which 230 million Euro was restricted cash in Russia.
Net book value of the investment in the Russian business as per the third quarter was $425 million Europe.
Free cash flow decreased 92 million euro compared to the same quarter last year.
From the lower earnings are less favorable working capital development and higher investments.
The negative development of working capital was mainly due to softer demand and therefore high inventory.
Clothing in UK, and Russia, as well as in Germany, and Canada.
Now, let's turn our attention to our outlook.
The outlook for the remainder of the year.
Slide number 13.
Q4, sorry, Q4 started as expected.
With a small sales growth in October.
And so based on that and underperformance in the first nine months of 'twenty five we maintain our full year revenue outlook that will be at level with last year in local currencies.
The production related incident in the factory in Fluke, Switzerland in October in October we'll have a reported impact on EBIT of around 15 million Euro.
In quarter four.
And as we see it now we expect production to be up and running again in the beginning of the first quarter, which is important to us because we need to be ready for the important spring season.
In the UK pipeline and quoting activities now suggest that it will be back on track from the start of 2026.
And Canada, However, we anticipate that both installation and court date and businesses will continue to be challenged.
As previously announced we forecast an EBIT margin between 14 and 15.
Due to the incidents in flume rock and the softness, especially in Canada and Russia.
Our large investment projects on track and the investment level of around 450 million Euro excluding acquisitions for the year is maintained.
We believe in the long term demand for our products and we remain optimistic about the future and.
In Europe, we continue to work at the member state level on implementation of the energy performance of buildings directive.
As a must also note that so far we have only see limited impact on sales from the renovation wave and also don't expect much from it in the near term.
We will continue investing in capacity buildup marketing public affairs and digitalization.
Holding the anticipated growth to bring them a bunch of energy efficiency agenda in Europe.
And our expansion in the United States.
These were my introduction comments.
And.
We will now go into the Q&A session.
Okay.
Thank you.
I will begin the question and answer session.
To ask a question Star then one on your telephone keypad.
Okay, using a speakerphone please pick up your handset before pressing the keys.
So we're doing a question. Please press Star then two.
At this time, he was pause momentarily to assemble our roster.
Our first question comes from Christian Garneau with Seb. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you two questions from my side.
So first of all on your North American business.
If we go back to before the summer you were talking about good demand capacity.
Constraints potential imports from Europe.
And now you've made it pretty clear that the demand in Canada is down but you also state that the mandate.
City up and running and good.
So I assume that you now have sort of the available capacity I guess on your Toronto factory, how easy is it to use that capacity in the U S market.
How fast can you sort of compensate for that so where do you think about your north American business.
But the slowdown in your North American business. This September.
Okay.
I'm not even sure if that was one or two questions but.
North American question.
Correct. The U S is back to the growth levels that we saw before the Soma and Canada being down. So we have capacity available in our large Canadian factories that we can use in the U S market and that's a model we have had for years and used for years. So the products.
The certificates and everything they need to be used in the.
In the U S market. So that is our biggest capacity you can see potential in the midterm, we do see that we need to import certain products from Europe.
Until the our new factory in the Lula is off and running and also there we are already both with capacity and what it takes to import these problems.
Okay.
But maybe just to be more specific on my question is obviously, when we see revenue down.
7% I think it was three.
In North America, So I guess, what I'm. After is can you Kevin can the U S. Compensate for the lack of revenue in Canada have been built.
Amerigas or we can return to growth again.
Yes.
In Q4 already we see that effect that the U S.
Because of its size now can compensate the at least to a certain degree for the in town in the in Canada.
So if it continues this way, yes, then we will see.
Our growth in totality North America again.
Okay.
That's okay.
And then my second question is just your comment on <unk>.
Cost efficiency it sort of a.
Factory can you.
Elaborate what has driven this.
This is temporary or something we should be worried about.
No. It is temporary we have a lot of projects going on and also some maintenance projects, we have decided to pull forward the.
And they have affected our factory efficiencies.
Then of course, there are some factories, where we have the weather we had lower capacity utilization. So the absorption degree is lower but its mainly from the first vector.
Okay.
Okay.
Wayne is sufficiently well.
These efficiency back to all of them.
They're dead that's too specific it then they don't have to go down and factory level because they are really projects by projects also some of our conversion projects are affecting efficiencies because we have to take the factories offline when we installed equipment. So it becomes very detailed.
I was just my colleague was just calculating it.
Did the north American they're trying to come with an estimate in there.
We do see some single digit growth in North America in quarter four already.
Okay. Thank you all for me.
Okay.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from everyone. In the conference request you to limit yourselves to two questions. Each if you have any further questions being asked to rejoin the queue.
Our next question comes from the line off and as Schumacher.
BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Yes.
Hi.
Taking my questions today.
Thank you.
Okay.
Thank you.
Danielle.
Okay.
Paul.
Q4.
Okay.
Okay fair enough okay.
Q4 EBIT margin.
All.
Great.
Thank you Greg.
Thats helpful.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Hi, Paul.
Okay.
Four.
And secondly.
Thanks Dennis.
Well you mentioned Greg.
Great.
Well.
Okay.
Station channel.
Hello.
Okay.
It's Lou.
Just two of course, the fourth quarter the fourth quarter is always particularly December.
Absolute slowest.
At quarter end month, so that is more year two year effect, we see again and again.
East Europe.
It's right we have some very strong market developments in the in Poland and Romania.
But what drives that Poland is really the flat roof business has come back for us.
We did small tactical price adjustments in the Polish market and now see a very positive.
Volume effect from that.
And.
And in Romania, It's the story that we've talked about.
For a long time know that Romania has adapt its a new and it is a new fire regulation on buildings, but also this new <unk> programs at Romania is one of the first countries really to put that in to action.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
The final question.
I understand that the module.
Thanks very much.
Okay.
Thank you.
Hey, Gary.
Sure.
At least here in Q2 and Q3.
Okay.
And Mark.
Yes, hi, thank you.
Yeah, Hi, Ana desk days, it's a very realistic guidance and we we have most of the flow Marc and one off expenses will be in Q4 and also continued as is it slow Downing in Canada, and Russia will impact in the Q4 earnings. So there's nothing really unusual in.
Our.
Understanding of the market dynamics itself. They are they are unchanged compared to Q3.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from class polymer technology. Please go ahead.
Thank you Yeah also a few question from my side to more to this Q4 implicit guidance.
Try to make a implicit.
Q4.
Guidance.
Josh for Russia in Canada, as you mentioned in the report and order.
Obviously also the issue of flops.
Still getting to a EBIT declined year over year around 10%. If you are at the midpoint of the guidance.
It looks a bit strange given that U S is growing in Europe, Eastern Europe, and so on so maybe a little bit more color to why you see a lower Mr. Coghlan underlying underlying EBIT, thanks that wouldn't be the first one.
Thank you Klaus.
As mentioned here besides the.
You can say that one off that Dave already mentioned in the report.
I see this as a normal Q4, there is nothing.
No dramatic changes in neither our pricing points of inflation.
We do have a few of them.
Sure.
As always at the yen if you the views of what else is happening around the group and Dave I guess, we adjust has taken a caution that we don't.
And end up at the outside the range that we have that we have specified.
Meaning that for sure.
I think equally it won't be at midnight.
Is that true.
The normal way it can be for telesat.
So far we have not specified the quantified the range.
Okay.
Then my second question is.
About the Capex, we are talking about the capex.
For a long time with these ongoing new factories being built giving.
Given.
Your comments about it onshore.
In market, especially in some parts of the world.
Considering planning too.
Delaying some of these capex or maybe even reducing the capex spend that would be my second question.
Yeah.
I mean, we monitor it all the time.
And when we talk capacity.
It has to be a discussion a country by country or region by region. Because as you know we are sold out in South Europe.
So it's so we need capacity in South Europe, we.
We sold out the more or less in North America, we sold out more or less in India as well.
All of these places, it's fairly easy and very robust to make capex decisions.
And of course, we then look at the other places.
Both on capacity, but also on our energy transition how faster we want to do it in an NFL timing should be changed to significant sorry, slightly but overall, we keep the bay high capex level.
And investment programs because when we model. These things we are convinced as I said before.
The long term demand for.
Our our.
Our products.
Both in Europe, and in North America. So.
Alright, and all I can foreshadow that next year's Capex will be higher than this year.
Okay that was all for me. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Our next question comes from Chase cognizant with camping.
Please go ahead.
Yes, good morning, all and thank you for taking my question.
Maybe on the topic of Capex. So of course, you maintain the $450 million guidance for this year.
I heard you to say that next year should be even higher than that can you.
I'll provide maybe yes.
How much higher exactly or could you provide maybe a normalized percentage of sales capex figure just for the midterm.
Just from a modeling standpoint that would be very useful.
Now I will we'll come back with that in February the more guidance.
On those numbers.
Okay.
Alright.
And then second question I know, it's quite difficult to talk about the Russian business and you mentioned in the press release, it's down double digit from a revenue perspective, and you don't feel there's much.
Let's say improvement in the near term there can you share any of the insights that you're hearing from the local management is that expected to even worse and maybe in Q4 or any kind of color would be extremely helpful.
No Unfortunately, not because I don't talk to the Russian management.
I have in my tenure as CEO never had a conversation with them. So I have no further insights than you have into what's happening in Russia.
Okay, well, thank you anyway.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from <unk> Duarte.
One field investment increased search. Please go ahead.
Okay. Thank you very much for taking my question. So two questions. The first is on the margin guidance that youre, suggesting for Q4, So I think.
You have to achieve the margin of 14% to 15% for the year.
Yes.
We're expecting them out in Q4 between 9% and 13%.
And I understand that there is there could be a negative impact on margin of maybe one of the hardest from a one off so it suggests that the margin excluding one offs that you're guiding for in Q4.
215% Unfortunately.
My question is like.
11% to 15% that youre expecting to follow the new normal.
Should we stop so should we think about this one.
When we are trying to forecast 2026.
And my second question is when we look at them.
Thank you.
Number four.
Excluding Russia, Russia is about something of a fifth.
Yes.
Oh sure was approximately 14% of your 60, a bit more than 16 in Europe, who have been running in the nine months.
With a margin of 70% is it correct.
Yes, Hello, I guess, you know, we don't want to pay right now put more color to the Q4 than we've already done as I said did and then the market development all trends are more or less the same as in Q3, and we serve sort of EM.
A little bit.
Of the margin outlook be shows that for other things. We're looking at right now and that would have to make decision on before year end.
So theres, nothing really dramatic and I don't want to to save because a new normal because.
Is this some of them are one off some of them off market.
Adverse market developments and they can happen all the time, but there's nothing dramatic in Q4, but we are looking at a few things that did it might impact us.
A one off in Q4.
On Nevada, and I think your calculations.
A question on <unk>.
And I think just on the margin looks like.
Yes, I think on margin.
11, 12, and 11, 15%, excluding a one off in the Q4, but I think the market is expecting margin to 16% in 2026. So that's a big big difference. So it seems the dramatic when you look at it as I said it yet yes, we have other things that we are looking at that we have not yet.
Impeded the analysis and decision points on so and the debt that means there's a little bit of space. The shares for eventualities that is coming here in Q4.
So kind of a nonrecurring one off things.
That would be great.
At some point, if we could get them all today.
In February.
Yeah.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from Andrew as Christian Craftsman.
<unk> Bank. Please go ahead.
Yeah.
Yes, Hello, Yes, and Kim and thank you for taking my questions as well I also have two so the first one is on.
The Canadian business, where you mentioned.
The impact of $15 million to $20 million.
On EBIT from that from the continued slowdown in the Canadian business for Q4, and I mean, that's a quite significant number considering the size of the Canadian business. So is it fair to assume that you expect a mid to low single digit EBIT margin in Canada for Q4, or how should we read this.
That's my first question My second one is regarding the incident in Switzerland.
How much revenue here are you able to accumulate from shipping product into Germany. We think will talk about just with customers appreciating we made in Switzerland label. So.
Of course, you might Miss some of that revenue that was my two questions.
Let me take the last one.
It looks now we can cater for approximately half of the volume into the Swiss market.
Yes.
We did believe it was more when the when it just happened, but as you maybe know with just with the operations has our own brand and unknown put our product portfolio.
So they are unfortunate situation lucky and glad that nobody got hurt.
And I do want to put some flavor to it I think it's important for everyone to know that.
It was.
Even though somewhat dramatic it was of a panel mechanical arrow. It has nothing to do with our novel.
The melting technologies saw any of our other probe.
<unk> technologies.
So unfortunate.
And of course, an impact on the Swiss market and an approximate 50% of the volumes.
That we can cater for through all the factories.
Okay.
On the margin in Canada, they are still double digit, but we had an expectation of a fantastic Q4.
So there was.
The impact was small compared to our original estimate, but it's still a double digit margin business on us.
Yeah.
Thank you very much that that's all for me.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from Julian <unk> with UBS Group. Please go ahead.
Yes, thanks, very much guys.
I wanted to ask about the Q4 as well, but I'm going to leave that since it's been asked so many times.
Instead I wanted to ask about North America. So can you just quickly remind us of the revenue split there between Canada and the U S. Obviously the U S is a lot bigger.
But more importantly, what are what are your key end markets in Canada, and the U S. In terms of verticals because I remember at the H Bond results you mentioned that it was predominantly nonresidential and warehouses industrial.
That kind of thing.
Is is is your split of verticals in north in the U S. Excuse me the same as in in Canada and as it is.
Demand there just better or is it something different that's driving better demand and <unk> in the U S versus the versus what's going on in Canada. Thank you.
Let me try to add some flavor to it the U S is now slightly larger than the Canadian business, but only slightly.
As you maybe know who is for historic reasons, we started in Canada and grew our business there.
And only post really up garden growth momentum the last few years in the U S.
A slightly bigger U S business than our Canadian business.
From a structural perspective, it is similar to Canada, and the U S slightly bigger commercial industrial than residential.
Business.
What growth what drives growth in the U S.
It's a combination of both.
Investments into.
The commercial industrial mainly warehouses distribution in the industry and those were the ones. We saw put on hold during the summer.
Don't know if you wanted to call.
We had the in.
In August, but we saw a sudden delay of large projects in the U S. There were not canceled they were just delayed.
We heard from many of our distributor's and in customers that one we're waiting for both.
Both the consumer sentiment, but also where the interest rates would be hitting.
And we've seen that many of these projects, although not all of them are.
Being released.
On the residential side.
We are.
Increasingly.
And accelerating our efforts on what we called the box business, It's the home depot and Lowe's channel.
Where we have also together with both of those two players set up increasingly point of sales.
So we are I know, we don't report on that yet, but maybe one day, we should open up that a little bit about how many points of sales we have with the the two large players.
So that market if you follow that market.
It.
Than you.
You will see.
That a lot of food at home depot, and also lows, but home depot as a leader their sales go to commercial business also so when we called at Big box and residential it is actually also to smaller.
Contractors.
That the channel caters for and they are we are right now accelerating we are setting up more points of sales, but we're also growing in.
Compare comparable show.
Same store.
So both of these channels commercial industrial and residential are driving growth.
The last comment on it because U S is of great interest to us as you know.
<unk> driver is our west coast efforts.
Where we still are in in baby you can see the early days of developing that market.
And where we are recurrent setting up more and more distribution.
Getting ready for getting all the Lula factoring in state of Washington online.
So those are the three main infectious.
The U S market.
Okay. So if I can just quickly follow up on that so you're saying that even in residential in the U S. You are growing.
Both of course, driven by your point of sale expansion, but even on a same store sales basis, that's quite.
It's quite an outperformance versus what the underlying market seems to be doing in residential in the U S. Right now anything specific you would attribute that to is that is that just a penetration growth.
Is it because there is still so small and of course. The smaller you are the more disconnected your volumes can be from the overall market or how would you explain that.
As a category shift so you had a different word for it but we are shifting the categories. If you look at Canada we.
Stonewall and we have a market share I think between 13 and 14% of total installation. If you look at the U S. Stonewall is three 4%.
And in general.
Now it becomes a longer explanation in general the.
This is a market shift from other insulation products, you know foam and glass into Stonewall and we are the only.
Real Stonewall manufacturing in the U S. So regardless because that is a correct observation regardless of our food.
At least to a certain degree regardless of macros, we have great opportunities to grow our business.
That's also why we keep on investing in capacity.
Okay.
Got it thank you very much.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Before we take the next question.
To everyone. If you have a question. Please press star and then one.
The next question comes from Danielle <unk>.
Sure with JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Good morning, gentlemen, thanks for taking my questions. The first one is just on the higher Capex comment and I. Appreciate you won't give a range now, but how do you think this may weigh on ambition or ability to do further share buybacks in the coming years.
And then secondly on Switzerland.
Is that to come back online in Q1, and how long once you get the equipment will it take for each of them back to your previous capacity. Thank you.
I will not cut it.
More detail to the Capex no of course share buyback programs.
I simply cant.
If I can add a little bit of flavor on what drives our capex.
It's not just.
Capacity requirements. It is also new legislations in it.
Mainly in Europe that they require.
US to upgrade the base.
Our factories to.
To reduce our <unk>.
Our emissions also notable emissions non C O two related.
So it's both regulations and market demands that are driving it in that direction and as also we see it of course is a great opportunity.
But also something that needs to be done timely in order to meet the demands of the more regulatory.
Side of our demand side.
When we say we're back online in the inflow in rock.
Early next year.
Then, it's including of getting all the spare parts and testing.
Et cetera et cetera.
So all these what was needed from a spare part perspective, and what was needed from a cleaning perspective have already been started a few weeks ago.
So we are optimistic that we'd get up and running early into next year.
Alright, thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from Katherine <unk> with Barclays. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning, Thanks for taking our question.
Question.
Just wondering if you could provide any early color.
Your thoughts around pricing.
Thank you Scott.
And then I appreciate you can't give too much color on Russia.
Just wondering if the EBITDA contribution.
It does.
Tayo. Thanks.
Going forward. Thank you.
Let me start the first point.
So our pricing with sometimes articulate as a drumbeat.
And after some years with very high inflation in via high price increases we're back to a normalized the drumbeat and foresee and plan at 1% to 3%.
<unk> increase next year.
As I said earlier the price increases we put in this year with approximately 1%.
The effect this year.
Sticking and we expect this more normalized drumbeat of 1% to 3%.
Also to stick your next year, because it is a more normalized level.
On the on the input cost.
It is a it's fair fairly flattish our forecast on debase most important both on Cogs.
The gas electricity. So all in all it was it's a fairly balanced picture between the price increases in.
And the larger input cost groups.
So.
I wish.
I missed a little bit a few second question, but I think you asked about Russia and ownership.
There's no change in strategy there so we're sticking to.
The statements that we already have made we are keeping the assets in a passive ownership as you could notice before we don't have any operational insights or influence on the business, but have chosen simply to keep it in a passive ownership.
Okay.
Great. Thanks very much.
Okay.
Thank you.
Your next follow up question comes from Julian <unk> with UBS. Please go ahead.
Yes, sorry, guys just a quick follow up so you said earlier in the call that at the moment you can cater for about half the volume in the Swiss market.
From Germany and earlier you thought it was more can I just double check does that mean that.
Sure.
We should think about the entire kind of Swift planned outage related one off costs in Q4 is actually more than $15 million because of that or is that already included in that number.
The $15 million includes everything.
And maybe I should've been more specific.
Approximately 50% is what I meant was 50% of our.
Sales, we can hand, we're seeing 50% of our sales maintained in this period.
Yeah.
Of course, there are some customers who is in Switzerland.
Yes.
I mean, the cost almost no. It's temporary situations. So it's really hard to say what is simply you know people not stocking and waiting until the products are available again and what are the effects.
But $50 million includes.
More or less dosing.
Okay. Thank you is there a possibility that you might actually have some catch up in <unk>.
Q1, once the plant comes back online because people waited for the product.
That is very very plausible, but for the group numbers. It is not material at all.
Sure Okay.
Okay. Thanks, a lot.
Thank you the.
Your next question comes from Aman <unk> with Bernstein. Please go ahead.
Yes, hi, everybody I'm on for Brian. Thanks for taking my question I think every question is beyond.
Just one smaller one.
Got it the film.
<unk> alright.
Sean.
The root cause.
How do you want to.
When do you think the feature.
The other plants.
One question.
I mean, we have as a stent and operate standard operating procedure for when we have incidences in the group.
So basically what you do is of course first of all make sure everyone is safe and you make sure that the you start planning for restart and testing and etc, etc, but you're in parallel of course also look at if there are other plans, who have similar equipment and if that needs to be upgraded in this case.
I don't want to get into great detail about it because it's about technology, but it was a fairly banal mechanical error on a single piece and the.
That can be handled both with redundancies and mechanics, but also ensured that do all the factories encounter something similar.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Your last question comes from the line of gasoline Galotti.
One field investment research. Please go ahead.
Yes.
Mainly my question on the strategy on the long term I think a lot of your competitors such as a single box now Fedex and it keeps panel.
The king of assistant setting aside the G. Well insulation is a new part of the building envelope TCM et cetera to the roofing or.
Thanks Donald.
Aviation system.
Intel yesterday from the system.
The risk of being a leading satellite need therefore from project issue.
So.
And your competitor are filling a filling our free system.
I've seen that you've done a small acquisition.
You know it takes.
I'd like to I'd like to understand how do you think about the long term.
If it's of course, something we have looked at our ongoing Lee we know strategy work, but we're convinced.
That it's the most valuable play for us is to stick to Stonewall we are there.
Arguably the best manufacturer of Stonewall Inn, the world's both quality wise.
The activity efficiency and of course also sustainable.
So we were not concerned about the being marginalized or becoming irrelevant.
There's so much for us to do in.
Maintaining a pure player.
Both are in Europe, and in North America, there's so much more growth to capture we have benefits of Stonewall over glass and film that leaves ample space for for growth. So we are sticking to our pure focus the strategy of staying.
And so on.
We also of course, having a system division.
Yeah, we.
Have the logic that as long as it's Stonewall all the lion's share is Stonewall I E. We're moving Stonewall with these activities.
So called day in El panels, or it takes market yeah, but then its relevant for us to be in but the underlying logic is that we want to be and maintain being the most relevant and highest performer in stone.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
This concludes our question and answer session I.
I would like to turn the conference back over to the management for any closing remarks.
Thank you very much yes, and I. Thank you for todays earning call and we'd like to thank you for all the questions and the audience for listening on today's call and appreciate your interest in <unk>. If you have any further questions. Please feel free to reach out to me you may find the contact details in the Investor section on our corporate website.
A very nice day. Thank you.
Okay.