Q3 2025 Suncor Energy Inc Earnings Call

Speaker #3: Good day . And thank you for standing by . Welcome to the Suncor . Third quarter 2025 financial results . Call . At this time , all participants are in a listen only mode .

Speaker #3: After the speakers presentation , there will be a question and answer session . To ask a question during the session , you will need to press star one one on your telephone .

Speaker #3: You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised . To withdraw your question , please press star one . One again .

Speaker #3: Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded . I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker . Suncor Energy's Chief Financial Officer , Mr. Troy Little Troy , please go ahead .

Speaker #4: Thank you . Operator and good morning . Welcome to Suncor Energy's third quarter earnings call . Please note that today's comments contain forward looking information .

Speaker #4: Actual results may differ materially from the expected results because of various risk factors and assumptions that are described in our third quarter earnings release , as well as in our current annual information form .

Speaker #4: Both of which are available on Sedar . Edgar and our website . Suncor . Com . Certain financial measures referred to in these comments are not prescribed by Canadian Generally Accepted Accounting Principles .

Speaker #4: For a description of these financial measures , please see our third quarter earnings release . We will start with comments from Richard Kruger President and Chief Executive Officer , followed by Chris Smith , Executive Vice President .

Speaker #4: Also on the call are Peter Zebedee , Executive vice president , oilsands . Dave Oldrieve , executive vice president , downstream . Shelley Powell , senior vice president , operational improvement and support services .

Speaker #4: And Adam Al-badawi , Suncor senior vice president of external affairs . Following the formal remarks , we'll open the call up to questions .

Speaker #4: Now , I'll hand it over to Rich to share his comments . Our third quarter was about completing this year's major maintenance and building momentum for a strong finish to the year .

Speaker #4: We accomplished both . I'll highlight operational performance . Chris will cover financial . First , I'd like to make a few comments on safety .

Speaker #4: I've shared before that 2023 and 2024 were the safest years in Suncor's history . For the first nine months of 2025 have been even safer across the board .

Speaker #4: Fewer incidents , lower severity , both personnel safety and process safety . I strongly believe that being a great company in oil and gas starts with being a safe company .

Speaker #4: Our performance now places us among the safest oil and gas companies in North America . Upstream production 870,000 barrels a day in the third quarter .

Speaker #4: Far and away, our best third quarter ever. In fact, it was 41,000 barrels a day higher than our previous best, which was achieved last year.

Speaker #4: Also , within 5000 barrels a day of our best quarter of any quarter ever . This was accomplished despite turnaround activity at both Firebag and Syncrude .

Speaker #4: A bit of context over the past two years , our third quarter has averaged 850,000 barrels a day , 145 higher than the prior three year average .

Speaker #4: I'll comment more on this performance shortly . Upgrader utilization 102% for the quarter , with base plant following the successful Coke drum replacement project at 106% year to date utilization at 96 , with both base plant and Syncrude exactly at that level , refining throughput 492,000 barrels a day in the third quarter .

Speaker #4: Our best quarter of any quarter ever exceeded our previous best . The third quarter of last year , the third quarter is typically the highest throughput quarter each year .

Speaker #4: That said , with back to back records in 24 and now 25 , we've averaged 27,000 barrels a day , or 6% higher than the prior three year period .

Speaker #4: Our third quarter results were achieved with an industry leading 106% utilization . All refineries were effectively at 100% or higher , with record set at Sarnia and Montreal .

Speaker #4: Overall , year to date , we're at 101% on pace to beat our annual record of 100% , set last year . Product sales 400 and 647,000 barrels a day in the third quarter .

Speaker #4: Again , our highest quarter of any quarter ever . 34,000 barrels a day , or 6% higher than our previous best quarter , which was the fourth quarter of last year .

Speaker #4: Recognizing that all sales are not created equal, our highest-margin retail sales are up 8% year on year, while lower-margin export sales are down 11% year on year.

Speaker #4: Our strategy is to achieve both volumes and value growth , operating costs year to date . OSG $9.7 billion essentially flat with year to date 24 .

Speaker #4: Despite 32,000 barrels a day higher upstream production , 14,000 barrels a day higher . Refining throughput and 21,000 barrels a day higher product sales , higher volumes , lower unit costs , turnarounds .

Speaker #4: On our second quarter call , we shared second quarter turnarounds were completed at historically low cost and best ever durations . Our third quarter turnarounds were completed equally well .

Speaker #4: A couple of examples . Montreal refinery . Our Hydrocracker and hydrogen plant's previously 55 days to complete the work . We budgeted it at 50 .

Speaker #4: We completed it in 40 . Going from industry fourth quartile to second quarter . Previously , it cost us $80 million . We budgeted it at 71 .

Speaker #4: We completed it for 62 . Again , going from industry fourth to second quartile . And I'm really pleased to say it was completed without so much as a cut finger or a spilt barrel .

Speaker #4: Edmonton Refineries synthetic crude unit completed at an industry first quartile level , Firebag at 92 , in July . Similar story . Under budget , ahead of schedule .

Speaker #4: Syncrude 81 . Coker completed early in the fourth quarter at best ever . Performance cost and schedule . Historically , this work took us 72 days .

Speaker #4: We had a very aggressive budget of $50 million, and we did it in $48 million. Literally every single turnaround in Q2 has been completed at lower costs and best-ever durations in aggregate.

Speaker #4: Our 25 turnaround program is approaching , approaching industry second quartile in North America , with second quartile in North America representing best in class in Canada and the best news ?

Speaker #4: We aren't done yet. We have tangible plans and a pathway to further improvement. 2025 is the second consecutive year our annual turnaround program was completed at under $1 billion.

Speaker #4: Under $1 billion is now Suncor's new norm , versus 1.25 billion historically . I'd like to hear I'd like to kind of pause and make a comment or two on the context , on our performance for two plus years .

Speaker #4: The last , the past 8 or 9 quarters , we have announced performance records , safety , production , throughput , product sales , asset utilization , turnarounds .

Speaker #4: And so on. We've dramatically reduced our WTI breakeven and, at the same time, reduced our net debt. We have materially grown free funds flow, fueling higher returns of capital to shareholders.

Speaker #4: We've strengthened and already uniquely integrated high quality asset base , consolidating ownership and achieving full control of Fort Hills Debottlenecking upstream and downstream capacities at little to no cost .

Speaker #4: Expanding , expanding bitumen transfer capabilities between base plant upgraders and other assets , and capturing downstream synergies during and outside of turnarounds . The impact of our actions is most notably seen in our volumes , which are historically the lowest in the second or third quarters of each year .

Speaker #4: However , starting in 24 and now again in 25 , our second and third quarter volumes have been higher , much higher , with significantly less variation versus historic first and fourth quarters .

Speaker #4: How ? By design , we are systematically reducing variation and elevating overall performance , embracing an industrial engineering mindset , improving systems , processes , practices and tools , delivering higher , more predictable , more readable results .

Speaker #4: Quarter after quarter , in turn delivering higher , more predictable , more ratable cash flow quarter after quarter . A few illustrations . Third quarter 2025 AFFO $3.8 billion with WTI at $65 a barrel .

Speaker #4: Last time we had 3.8 billion . AFFO was the third quarter of 24 with WTI at $75 a barrel . Third quarter free funds flow 2.3 billion .

Speaker #4: The highest operationally since fourth quarter of 22 . When WTI averaged $83 a barrel , $18 higher year to date free funds 5.2 billion within 200 million of 2024 .

Speaker #4: Despite oil prices being $11 a barrel lower buybacks 250 million a month in 2025 . Every month , independent of oil price . 250 when WTI was 75 , in January , 250 when WTI was 61 , in May , year to date , we bought back more than 4342 million shares , 3.4% of our float , at an average cost of $53 .

Speaker #4: Year on year , 340 million more in buybacks . Despite oil prices being down $9 a barrel at today's oil price , I strongly believe buying our stock is our best investment , and we intend to keep buying it month after month after month .

Speaker #4: The fact is , our business model in uniquely integrated asset base now , coupled with much higher performance , offers investors a unique and I believe a premium value proposition , high performance with more predictable , more readable cash flow delivered with less relative dependence on oil price with any large industrial complex .

Speaker #4: The highest performance occurs when systems and capabilities align in sync . What you are seeing is Suncor's unique integrated cash generation capabilities increasingly aligned and in sync with fundamental attributes that cannot be readily replicated .

Speaker #4: 2025 guidance . On our second quarter call , we revised capital guidance down , dropping the range midpoint by $400 million to 5.7 to 5.9 billion .

Speaker #4: Today we we believe we will come in at the low end of the revised range . Now based on third quarter performance . We're revising 2025 volumes , guidance up across the board .

Speaker #4: Production revised range 845 to 855 . With our midpoint up 25,000 barrels a day . Refining revised range 470 70 to 475,000 barrels a day .

Speaker #4: The midpoint up 30,000 barrels a day . Refined product sales , revised range 610 to 6 . 20 . Midpoint up 45,000 barrels a day .

Speaker #4: We expect to exceed the high end of our original guidance for the second consecutive year . Now , I recognize the temptation to conclude what we must have been conservative .

Speaker #4: But let me remind you, every single turnaround was completed in its shortest duration ever. Our massive Coke drum replacement project was executed flawlessly, and upstream and downstream asset utilizations are once again at record levels.

Speaker #4: The result ? Every volume category in 2025 is expected to be a new annual best ever . So was our original guidance . Conservative , or is today's Suncor simply continuing to outperform ?

Speaker #4: I've said before , we are institutionalizing a culture that every barrel and every dollar matter . With that , I'll turn it to Chris .

Speaker #4: All right . Thanks , Rich .

Speaker #5: Good morning everyone . Well , since this will be my final earnings call , I do want to start by first thanking the investment community for your engagement , your questions , your partnership over these last three years .

Speaker #5: And it's certainly been a privilege to engage with all of you during my time here at Suncor . I'll have a bit more to say on my retirement in a moment , but before I do , let's first talk about what is an exceptionally strong quarter to begin with , I'm pleased to announce that the Board of Directors has approved a 5% dividend raise for an annualized dividend of $2.40 per share , which is in keeping with our commitment to reliably and sustainably grow the dividend .

Speaker #5: This dividend increase is a direct result of the great progress our team has made in sustainably growing incremental free funds flow , and because of our steady return of cash to shareholders through our share buyback program , this increase in our dividend does not affect our WTI break even price .

Speaker #5: Our buyback program continues to be a key driver of Persia per share dividend growth , creating a reliable flywheel for shareholder returns . It's yet another proof point that we are doing what we said we would do delivering reliable , growing cash returns to our shareholders .

Speaker #5: The third quarter was also another strong quarter for shareholder returns, consistent with our disciplined capital allocation framework. We returned just over $1.4 billion to shareholders, including $688 million in dividends and $750 million in share buybacks.

Speaker #5: At the end of the quarter , we repurchased 3.4% of our equity float , supporting future dividend and free funds flow per share growth .

Speaker #5: Our approach remains unchanged: drive growing free funds flow and return 100% of excess funds to our shareholders on a full-year basis.

Speaker #5: As Rick mentioned , our buybacks have been consistent despite commodity movements in 2025 , a testament to the predictability and quality of this company's cash flows .

Speaker #5: Turning to the business environment in Q3 , it was marked by slightly higher commodity prices , with WTI averaging US 6495 per barrel , which is which was up $1.25 per barrel versus the prior quarter .

Speaker #5: Notably , we saw an improvement in our downstream 5221 custom index of us $3.35 per barrel with improved cracking margins averaging 3120 . In the quarter versus 2785 in the prior quarter .

Speaker #5: And contributing to strong financial performance in our downstream . This improvement in commodity prices was partly offset by a stronger Canadian dollar moving from $0.72 US to 73 .

Speaker #5: We have seen some weakening of crude price as we moved into the fourth quarter , but our strong operations , coupled with our integrated business model , ensures the continued resiliency of our free funds flow through a lower commodity price environment , supporting continued strong cash returns to shareholders .

Speaker #5: Now , Ritch talked a lot about records in his opening remarks . I do want to highlight another one of those . This quarter , AFFO was $3.8 billion , or $3.16 per share , and it was the second highest Q3 AFFO in Suncor's history , despite much lower crude prices .

Speaker #5: You'd have to go back to Q3 of 2022 for the record , which was in a commodity price environment over $90 . Operating earnings were $1.8 billion , or $1.48 per share .

Speaker #5: How did we generate $3.8 billion of AFO with average WTI at $65 ? Well , to begin with , a number of those records that Rick was just talking about , record third quarter upstream production of 870,000 barrels per day , including oil sands at 812,000 and E&P at 58,000 .

Speaker #5: Record total bitumen production of 958,000 barrels per day . Record quarterly downstream with refining throughput at a whopping 492,000 barrels per day , and utilization of 106% , and record quarterly refined product sales of 647,000 barrels per day .

Speaker #5: That's a lot of records . Total ESG expense in the quarter of $3.3 billion is consistent with the first six months of the year .

Speaker #5: Further demonstrating our operating leverage with higher volumes and Absolute costs , capital expenditures in the quarter totaled $1.4 billion , including $565 million of economic investments and 874 million of sustaining and maintenance capital .

Speaker #5: As we execute our fall turnaround schedule , working capital use was 183 million in the quarter , primarily reflecting the timing of payments and net debt at the quarter end was $7.1 billion , with net debt to trailing 12 month AFFO at 0.5 times .

Speaker #5: This is all about managing our balance sheet in the best interest of our shareholders , while continuing to steadily return significant cash to them .

Speaker #5: I do want to spend a moment on what I believe is an underappreciated part of the Suncor story: our ability to consistently generate industry-leading margins across the value chain.

Speaker #5: I do want to spend a moment on what I believe is an underappreciated part of the Suncor story . Our ability to consistently generate industry leading margins across the value flat .

Speaker #5: finally to customers . All along the value chain . Like our peers , we make bitumen , but then we transform those barrels into high value products , which is previously described this as our ability to make craft cocktails for our customers .

Speaker #5: It's this competitive advantage , coupled with our strong logistics and trading capabilities , that enabled us to sell our oil sands barrels at 96% of average WTI over the quarter and our downstream margin captures consistently above industry benchmarks .

Speaker #5: This quarter was no exception , with margin capture at 92% of our custom 5221 index , an index which represents the margin power of our downstream business .

Speaker #5: FFO gross margin was US 2887 versus an average New York Harbor in Chicago , 321 crack of 2639 . Suncor is quite simply a margin machine , and this should be recognized as a core driver of this company's value proposition .

Speaker #5: Now, this is my last quarterly call with Suncor. I do want to take a moment to express what a privilege it's been to work at this company for the last 25 years and to be part of this executive team for the last 13.

Speaker #5: Over my 25 years , I've worked in almost every part of this company , and I've seen its tremendous growth over that time to become Canada's premier integrated oil sands company .

Speaker #5: I deeply believe in the strategic importance of the oil sands to the long term prosperity of Canada and Alberta , and as a source of long term value for our shareholders and know that Suncor will play a significant role in that future as it continues to grow its competitive advantage of maximizing value of this world scale long life resource through its unmatched integrated value chain .

Speaker #5: I want to thank the board, Rich, and all my colleagues for their support over the years. I also want to thank all our employees for their dedication and drive to deliver results each and every day.

Speaker #5: As I said, it's been a real privilege to be a part of this team. I also want to congratulate Troy on his appointment to the CFO chair and know that his experience and leadership will be critical in the years ahead.

Speaker #5: This company is so very well positioned for the future , and as I move on , I'm confident that Suncor will continue to deliver exceptional value to our shareholders through operational excellence , capital discipline and a relentless focus on value creation .

Speaker #5: And with that , for a final time , I'll turn it back over to Rich .

Speaker #4: Thanks , Chris . First of all , I want to thank thank you and congratulate you . You have been an integral part of our turnaround over the past few years .

Speaker #4: Your timing couldn't be better . Wrapping up with the quarterly results . And you know , for those on the phone , I've gotten to know Chris quite well .

Speaker #4: Outstanding executive . A class act , and I am proud to say a close friend . Chris , you'll be missed , but not forgotten .

Speaker #4: We all wish you , Sandra , Ethan and Kathryn . I was going to add Maisie , your gold , your golden hour Golden retriever that I see walk by the house .

Speaker #4: The best in your future endeavors . I also want to thank our congratulate Troy , our new CFO , and Adam , our new senior VP of External Affairs , which includes Investor Relations , gentlemen , it was high performance that earned you these roles .

Speaker #4: And as you've heard me say , hi , performance results in even higher expectations . I look forward to continuing to work with you as we create shareholder value .

Speaker #4: With that , I'll turn it over to Troy . Thank you . Thank you Rich . I'll turn the call back to the operator to take some questions .

Speaker #3: Thank you . As a reminder to ask a question , please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced .

Speaker #3: To withdraw your question , please press star one one again . Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster . The first question comes from the line of Greg Pardy of RBC Market or Capital Markets .

Speaker #3: Greg, please go ahead.

Speaker #6: Yeah , thanks . Good morning . And I probably put your conference call commentary right up in that first quartile . So , so great , great rundown .

Speaker #6: So first off , Chris , just all the very best . I sure hope our paths cross again soon . And big congratulations .

Speaker #6: I think to Troy and looking forward to working with with Adam . So questions wise there are a couple of things kind of going through my head .

Speaker #6: But but Rich , I wanted to come back to maybe what the prevailing narrative was on Suncor before you got there . To some extent , which was , hey , old assets can't be fixed .

Speaker #6: And I'd heard that from multiple quarters . How do you put that together ? Perhaps with the maintenance interval extension that we're now seeing at U1 , but also just the planning and turnaround and improved turnaround performance and just it's a very broad question by definition , but I just wanted to get a better understanding as to how all those pieces fit together .

Speaker #4: Well . Two things , Greg . First of all , start off , I appreciate you saying first quartile because that gives us room to improve .

Speaker #4: Our goal is best in class. The second thing I think I'm living proof that age shouldn't directly correlate with performance in a negative way.

Speaker #4: So but but I'm going to turn this over to the team to my left here in a moment , because the the entire away we're approaching our business .

Speaker #4: The depth , the analytics upon which we plan and perform our work is fundamentally different . So , Shelly , maybe I'll start with you , but then I'll ask perhaps Peter and Dave to give a quick example in the business .

Speaker #4: But Shelly's kind of at the central point of how we've redesigned our entire approach to operational excellence.

Speaker #7: Yeah , and the first thing I would say on that , like the intervals as well as just across performance for us , it really starts with benchmarks .

Speaker #7: We want to look and see what does global performance look like . And then we want to be the best of the best in that bunch .

Speaker #7: So we look at the best intervals that are being achieved across similar units in the globe, and then we do the work to understand what it would take for us to hit that benchmark.

Speaker #7: So the work is really about making the right decision at the right time . Peter .

Speaker #8: Yeah , I would also say , Greg , you mentioned you won there . We're we're moving the intervals at U1 to six years .

Speaker #8: That's really a function of the upgraded metallurgy on the drums . The investment that we put in with the coke drum replacement project this year and coupled with some work on the Coker frac section that has enabled us and we're confident in our in our ability to extend it to six years .

Speaker #8: So it's a real success story. And you see that replicated across a broad variety of our upstream oil sands assets, both at the same crude Firebag as well as Hills.

Speaker #9: And for the downstream , I'll use Edmonton as an example . But we're applying the same principles and the same logic across all of our assets .

Speaker #9: And the downstream . It also starts with benchmarking . You know , for Edmonton , we just completed a sweet , crude and hydrocracker turnaround block that was that was an interval increase from four years to five years .

Speaker #9: And going forward , that unit will be on a six year interval . So that's a 50% increase over two cycles in the spring of this year , we did a sour crude and hydrocracker block , and that was an increase from three years to four years due to some improved catalysts .

Speaker #9: We put in back in 2021 . And this turnaround , we made some modifications to the distribution of flow over that catalyst . And we're and we're planning on a five year interval going forward .

Speaker #9: So that's three years to five years . 65% improvement in turnaround interval over two cycles . We're applying that same logic across all the units in Edmonton .

Speaker #9: But we're also applying that same principles across all of our refineries . Grounded in solid work selection and benchmarking . We're applying that same approach everywhere .

Speaker #9: We're not done yet .

Speaker #4: And Greg , I just add to close this one out , there is not a new refinery in North America . The entire refinery network has some , you know , aging , some age to it .

Speaker #4: And I would say just candidly , the and I don't know where it all came from . It doesn't really matter . But the statement or narrative that old assets couldn't perform , that was an excuse for subpar , subpar performance .

Speaker #4: And this company doesn't make excuses anymore .

Speaker #6: Yeah . Okay . No , I think you've captured it . So let me let me relate this then to your share price , relative valuation , and then just your trajectory .

Speaker #6: So the trajectory that you're on right now would suggest that you're outperformance is going to continue . But there's this gap between your relative valuation and others .

Speaker #6: So the market is either impatient , just has recognized it . What have you . If you look at your $8 billion net debt target in the context of improvement cycle cash flows , plus the trajectory , does that not suggest either moving the 8 billion , you know , up number one ?

Speaker #6: Or secondly , maybe taking a more aggressive stance with respect to to share buybacks , like doing an SIB or what have you .

Speaker #4: You know , I'll , I'll start it out and then I'll ask both our new and parting CFOs to comment on it . You know , as we put that target in place and it was , you know , about about a little less than two years ago now , it was on the assumption of a rate of improvement in 24 , 25 and 26 .

Speaker #4: We've accelerated . We've improved faster than we anticipated in that , and you've heard us . We talk about this three year plan .

Speaker #4: Are we going to achieve three and two . You know , that's that's a kind of a separate question . But the examining of how we manage the balance sheet , looking at the business and the return of capital to shareholders , these are very active dialogues .

Speaker #4: These are not where we set something in stone . And that's just the way it is . We want to be outstanding technical and operational executives , and we want to be astute and outstanding money managers .

Speaker #4: So maybe I'll just give that . But you know , Chris or Troy , I'll .

Speaker #5: Maybe just a few comments and ask if Troy wants to add anything as well . I mean , Greg , you know , on the back of of Richard's comments , you know , we've set ourselves up in this company to ensure that we're really managing the balance sheet well , but we're driving that free funds flow growth , and we're returning that excess cash to shareholders .

Speaker #5: We set that debt target a couple of years ago . Now , when we kind of reset the company , we're obviously ahead of of schedule on just the level of improvement .

Speaker #5: This company continues to drive . I expect that Troy and Rich are going to continue to look at what the appropriate level of leverage is for the company , but prudently manage this balance sheet for the long term .

Speaker #5: And really and have that underscore of ratable consistent buybacks to our shareholders . And return of cash . So , you know , right now we've been at a very consistent level for the last number of quarters .

Speaker #5: We think there's a ton of value in that consistency . And I know that's something that Troy and I have talked about is really it's the it's the brand of the new Suncor is the ability to deliver consistently ratably reliably to our shareholders .

Speaker #5: Will that change over time and be managed prudently and and obviously looking at how we view near-term and medium term commodity price , of course .

Speaker #4: Yeah , I .

Speaker #10: Think I would just I think your question is , is our net debt target or how we view debt is it static ? You know , really the level of debt that a company carries or should hold depends on a few things .

Speaker #10: It depends on the company's underlying cash flows , the consistency of the performance of our assets , the quality of the leadership team .

Speaker #10: That's managing those assets , and also the external environment . I think everyone would agree on those first three things . Suncor has made an enormous amount of progress in the last few years , so my intent is to manage the balance sheet just like my colleagues and operations manage their assets .

Speaker #10: And it's to deliver consistent returns to the shareholders .

Speaker #6: Perfect . Yeah , thanks very much .

Speaker #3: One moment for your next question . The next question comes from the line of Doug Leggate of Wolfe Research . Doug , please go ahead .

Speaker #11: Thank you . Good morning everyone . I would also like to add my congratulations to everyone . Chris . It's been a real pleasure .

Speaker #11: And as you'll see in a second , I'm going to I'm going to challenge you on one last question . If I may , and Troy , again , congratulations , Troy .

Speaker #11: Here . See you all . All right . So let me , let me , let me , if I may , I rich I'm probably front running a little bit 20 , 26 .

Speaker #11: But I want to try and hit the capital outlook . So obviously there is one substantial project still in your portfolio , which is West White Rose , that obviously is 2026 .

Speaker #11: As we understand it . And a fairly large slug of capital . And I guess my question is that as you as you start to think about the use of discretionary cash flow going forward , as some of these bigger projects , one off projects roll off .

Speaker #11: How are you thinking about the absolute level of discretionary spending versus that sort of almost $6 billion number ? Does that go lower or does the capital get reallocated to other things ?

Stay in bed, don't get up early. Uh, we're going to, we're going to deliver that. And and what that does is it allows us to be very judicious about quality and at a capital construct of less than 6, you can pick your oil price world. Is it you know, 50 555, UH, 60 bucks a barrel. We believe we can continue to pay a reliable and growing dividend fund our full Capital program and buy back shares and we want to thread the needle where we can do all of that.

In most any business environment and the unique level of our integration in the kind of the natural Hedges that are within our construct Upstream Downstream all the way to the customer. Now, gives us less volatility.

Depend independently less on what the external world is. We want to be a cash machine that invests wisely and returns capital to shareholders predictably and reliably. It's taken us a couple of years to get all the, you know, the bells and whistles in place to improve fundamental performance. But I think that's what you're seeing now, and to me, that's quite exciting. So, we put a high...

A bar to justify new economic capital because it really needs to be tested against an alternate, use of returning that Capital to shareholders. And I think at our current share price, as I said, I think we're in an extremely good buy.

And so that will be the, you know, the push and pull, we will have internally and we have quite rigorous discussions and debates on that, but they're all centered on. How can we increase shareholder value, you know, the the highest the highest fastest and best

To the oil prices also subjected. So when you say you are a great buy, you're implicitly saying, I have an oil price to you, which is not necessarily going to be. Alright. So, my question is this, um, when you look at your relative performance to your closest peer, which is probably Imperial, the big difference has been the rate of dividend growth.

And your Divine growth remains somewhat glacial despite all the improvements. So my question to you is

Why emphasize the buyback with a pedestrian dividend growth and not if the improvements are flowing through to the bottom line.

Pivot to a more aggressive rate of dividend growth.

Doug, I'm going to turn it to Chris. Uh, the next time we're together, we'll have a couple of beers and we'll go through this as well. But Chris, go ahead comment. Yeah, no. Thanks and and again if Troy wants to add anything here to the answer, I mean, thanks Doug, like, first of all, uh, you know, our company, obviously, we're, we're an oil company and commodity price makes a big difference, but this company also is differentially positioned in terms of our integrated business model, and how we drive value, and sustainable free cash flow and and growing that. So start there, in terms of the dividend, you know, our commitment is is to reliably and sustainably grow that dividend and position this company. So that we have a strong WTI break, even that can weather through the commodity price cycle. And you've seen us over the last 2 years reduce that WTI break. Even by we're on our way to

10 bucks a barrel. So we've repositioned the sustainability of the company which makes us more resilient in the lower end of the commodity price cycle. So we're not taking we're not betting on oil price in this company, what we're betting on is sustainably and reliably generating free cash flow and having a resilient company that does that. In terms of the dividend to the, the investors, we view that as a commitment, and a promise. And, uh, and this company is going going forward. This is a commitment and a promise to our shareholders. Uh, we will grow it. Reliably, we have what we view is a competitive yield, but the share price is actually low and that yield needs to be lower and we'll continue to grow the dividend appropriately over the years. The cash returns strategy though, of BuyBacks our view, it is 1 of the best mechanisms to get cash, back to our shareholders, and really drive that per share value to our shareholders. So, we think we've got a, a winning formula and our Capital allocation strategy does.

Um and maybe I'll just turn it over to uh to Troy for any other comments. Yeah, I'll just add this from a perspective. Uh point of view, you know, as a management team, our focus is on maximizing the free cash flow per share from our assets.

So that we can generate returns for our shareholders.

We really look to our shareholders, though, to guide us on how they want those returns delivered to them.

And the almost constant feedback we get is that our investors want a reliable and growing dividend as Chris referred to and they want the access to be used for share BuyBacks. And until they really tell us something different that's going to be our Focus.

I want to make 1 comment on this too. And, you know, I I run the risk because I I'm just thinking about it on the Fly and I sometimes I get in trouble when I do this, but what they have, we're going to go for the, um, you talk, you talk about a peer or peers.

I honestly don't think we have a True Canadian peer. I think the unique assembly of our assets upstream and downstream the differentiated value proposition. We have, I think we have an ability under over a much wider range of market conditions to deliver predictable, reliable cash flow. Now, at any point in time, whether it's oil, price, gas price, low differential High, differential Downstream cracks or whatever. There can be

parties that might stand out, but I think if you look over the test of time who has been assembled to compete and win for the long term,

I increasingly don't think that, you know, looking around Calgary is the right is the right lens to look at us on. So I'm probably going to get in trouble for that. I'm probably going to be challenged on that and stuff but, you know, yeah, you asked me a question. You you get what? I, you know, you get the answer I feel and that's how I feel.

We'll get a chance to talk about it. A couple of weeks, thanks so much.

Thanks Doug.

1 moment for your next question.

The next question comes from the line of Dennis song of c. I d c w n Dennis please go ahead.

Congratulations to the team on the quarter. Um, and the specifically to Chris, uh, Troy and Adam for their, uh, I guess new roles or, or exiting your existing role. Um, my, my first question really focuses on Fort Hills, uh, Q3 operations, and and production was, uh, quite strong, um, from our observations of the mine plan. It seems like you've opened up potentially the first cut and should have turned that maybe over to operations. Can you maybe talk towards the progress on the second cut and maybe um as you're kind of progressing through the plan, what that means for optimization of the asset.

Once you take that, yeah, thanks, Dennis, and you're absolutely right. We are actively producing more from the, uh, the first cut that the first pit in the North Pitt 1. Uh, now and that's going exceptionally. Well, blending off that or with with or from Center pit. Uh, and you have seen as you saw in the third quarter, our production volumes start to increase. Uh, We've also uh just started open opening up the the second pit in the North Pitt, which will be an active blending pit. So we're just kind of in the, in the top cut of that now, and we'll develop that over the remaining months here in 25 2025 and into 26.

Uh, and our drive is really to take the Ford Hills volumes up to, uh, name plate, and potentially Beyond, uh, in the, in the next couple of years. And it really potentially see lots of opportunities. So, we're we're trying to get up into that 195,000 Barrel a day. 200,000 Barrel per day range, in the next couple of years. Uh, that's the goal. North Pitt 2 is going to be a big part of that. Uh and we're just in the, the top stripping of that uh, that area of the mind right now.

You can continue to, um, test and evaluate the plant and I think their Peter, you know, I don't know if you have any specific comments on that, but we, we have a lot of capability and capacity with that plant. So, the focus on the, the, or the Benjamin delivery is the key because we do have a really, a stellar facility there. Yeah. And we, we really have proven that out, especially, uh, through 2025. We've taken the opportunity to really test the range on the, on the fixed plant to, to really put some high throughput in it from the mine. It delivered, uh, better than what we expected even. And so our confidence in the ability of the fixed plant to, to take the ore from the mine. Uh, is extremely high. And so right now, it's all, it's all about getting that mindset up to deliver those high production volumes here in the future.

Great really. Really, really I appreciate that that context there. Peter and and Rich. Um, my second question and maybe it's addressed to Dave uh rich in your opening comments. You highlighted uh record a refined product sales uh through the quarter. Um I was hoping you could touch on um and maybe highlight what you found in um your opportunity to visit a variety of the retail logistics and distribution terminals across

Uh, Suncor is Canadian operation and and how that feels or, or drives Comfort level or an ability to kind of press through, put on Downstream and Market those volumes, um, in the most, we'll call it profitable channels.

Hey, you want to go? Yeah, for sure. Um,

Dennis. We, uh, as Rich mentioned, we we changed our philosophy about a year or so ago to focus on value value versus volume value value and volume. So, our plan is, we run our refineries full and we sell full and then we improve our Channel mix over time. Um, and, and what's really great about what we've seen so far in that philosophy is, is it's all working. You've seen the records. But what you may not see in, in the, in the numbers is, is the work that's happening to grow our most profitable channels. Uh, and that's our retail growth plans, our wholesale growth, uh, and and and and and really reducing the volume of exports that we make. So, on the retail side, just maybe a few, a few numbers because folks probably have seen some of this as you.

Organization, uh, who who sell direct to customer with a, you know, minimizing that the the prophet that's taken by the by the folks in the middle. Uh, and we can sell off both coasts. So we can sell off Vancouver and we can sell out of Montreal and we can optimize our Network in between to go anywhere. Pretty much anywhere in the world with largely diesel is what we see exporting out of Canada. So our our network is strong. Um we're growing the highest profitable channels uh and we have lots of flexibility to continue to grow. I'm, I'm looking at Adam as I say this in in late 2022, the company had a retail growth plan that had communicated to the market and, and had a series of commitments, through 27 and stuff on it. I would say in the investor day, we need to give a good good, uh, recap of where we stand on that, and it just kind of a headline, is we, uh, is going quite well. We're, we're delivering everything and more that in late 22. We said we were going to do and I think Dennis 1 other little added point I'd make a Nuance on it in today's world.

Of of commodity price, uncertainty, and volatility owning all the way through the customer is a competitive Advantage because that can move around whether it's the customer has the The Leverage or the manufacturer has the leverage or the producer does. But this is a, a key part of that uniqueness of our

Value chain that all integration is not created equal. It's quite in fact, it's quite different and our

unparalleled integration is a part of our story and a part of our performance.

Great, really appreciate that. Thank you. And I'll I'll turn it back.

Thank you. 1 moment for our next.

Question.

The next question comes from the line of Neil Mehta of Goldman Sachs.

You please. Go ahead. Yeah, good. Good morning Rich. Congratulations Troy. Congratulations. Adam. And Chris has been been a real pleasure. Uh, I I um, I guess 2 questions. The first is just on the investor day. Um, when when is the have you put a date out for that? I'm guessing. It's going to be met like you, you did in 2124. Um but I might have missed that but as you think about that investor day, what are the kind of the tangible kpis or targets you want to to educate the market on and and how with the right time Horizon and are you thinking you 3 year targets or going out further? Just give give us a little bit of preview for that.

You know, as I answer you I have a room full of people that are really, really curious as to what I'm going to say. So let's have some fun with this. Our, our original plan was sometime, you know, before mid-year next year

That's not going to work. We're going to need to come out earlier than that. So we're looking at something earlier. We're looking at calendars, when all you good, folks are available. Those of you that have kids, when your kids are on spring break and all that, but we're going to pull that earlier. It won't be January, or February, but it will be earlier than we had originally anticipated. And the second thing, you know, the, the 1 area, that periodically and I read everything, you guys write every now. And then, when, you know, things are going really, really well, you guys look for you know, what's what's the what's the thing we can say as to why we have to justify to our bosses, we haven't all bought Suncor. So everybody wants to say well what the hell is going to happen when the basine depletes stuff? So we owe you and we'll present a very compelling long-term value proposition on bumin, development and replacement.

Return. And we've said in the last investor day that don't anticipate a whole bunch of, you know, expenditures in the next 5 years on it. So I think we're going to have to do both, we're going to have to give you what that long-term plan looks like. But we're going to have to give you kind of what

What is that next? I, you know, for for for fun sake, we'll say what's that? Next 3 year plan also going to deliver, so I think we're going to have to give you both longer term and

a new set of targets short term that will be you know, compelling and uh inspiring and create the case for man, this is a stock. I just have to own

So, a little bit earlier than we originally thought—2-prong, short-term and long-term. I'll tell you, I'm going to be there that day. I wouldn't miss it.

Well, I have to have a good pump up music before you get on stage. They

We we're going to sustain in a healthy environment and then utilization averaging 100 101% for a system that was running low to mid 90s for a long time, you know? Do you, do you feel like you've got some, uh, you know, uh, momentum here to be able to sustain at these type of levels? Um, as you go into next year as well? Dave, Dave, let me take the second part and then I'll turn it over to you on that, on the, the utilization and things, the the teams across the company, Facility by Facility have undertaken, a very concerted. Okay. What's the limiter? What's the bottleneck? What's the last increment that if we make small, you know, changes can add incremental capacity. And when you now see, and I literally think it's since mid 23, I think we're 2 years. If you average over all that, I think we're at more than 100% utilization for that long period and you get 106. So so what does it really saying the underlying capacity has grown? So we need to

And maybe that'll be investor day. I'm not. It needs to be soon. We will rewrite our Downstream because it has more capacity than it previously had due, to really smart thoughtful Frugal work site by sight by sight. So there there's, there's something, you know, coming there, is it? Sustainable? I think that gets right back to the turnaround discussions or commitment to operational excellence on maintenance practices.

The answer is absolutely. Is it sustainable know you're on year? We'll have, you know, more turnarounds here, less turnarounds there and things. So you you'll get a little variation year on year. But at the high performance levels you've become accustomed to this year and last year, our business plan, our guidance that you're soon going to see is very consistent with continuing to deliver that. So Dave Mill will flip it to you on kind of, you know, the value that you're going to create in that Enterprise? Yeah, for sure. And I'll just build rich on on your comments on the, on the downstream. Not only do we see that sustaining. We, we believe we can continue to incrementally creep capacity with with all of the little ideas that are coming from the Grassroots of the organization. As folks are aligned to, to drive growth, you know, you mentioned the markets are strong. You know, we're seeing particularly on the diesel side, low inventories the geopolitical risks.

Uh, some lagging Renewables in the US and a growing short in California. That's really starting to to drive uh diesel as well as some local gasoline cracks in certain parts of the continent. Uh so we see in the short term, some really, some really strong uh uh uh cracking spreads going into uh into the fourth quarter and through the fourth quarter. The longer term view on Canada is we're going to continue as I mentioned before our retail growth plans, we have some plans on the wholesale side to do something similar. So we even even in a market that is maybe growing slowly at a couple percent per year. We believe our strategy is, we can take market share in the most profitable channels and we'll continue to do that.

And as I mentioned on the balance, we can run our refineries full. Uh we have some of the lowest cost crew advantages in in the globe and we can export profitably. Pretty much anywhere in the world and continue to grow our refining capacity through that mechanism as well. So just 1 last 1, last thing kind of a related point, you know, our Downstream, I think historically focused have said well, you know, you guys are good good Downstream High performing Downstream, etc, etc. All of that is true but we've taken it, we've taken it from good to great. And our belief is a can be even greater and it is so key to our financial resilience and uncertain times and the contribution to keeping our overall corporate break, even at a very, very a low and very competitive level. And I think what we've seen the, the more we do in the downstream and I'm smiling. As I look at Dave, the more we do, the more potential we see. So this is a, you know,

Use this phrase. Now, for several quarters in a row, we are not done yet and that applies either equally or disproportionately to the downstream. Well, there's a lot more value, we believe we can continue to create and and so when you look at us, it may not always be straight, you know? Uh, plotting volume points either upstream or Downstream May no longer be. The best way to gauge. Are these guys improving, keep looking at the dollars and where the, where they're coming from and, and the dollars Now volume.

We're going to keep doing things to grow that, but our increasingly our mindset is in the value dimensions and the downstream is going to be a big part of that.

Thanks Rich. Thanks team.

Go ahead.

Um, I actually wanted to start on a lighter note, as you get into the earnings call of shore, you know, you were playing that Michael Jackson song, Beat It and beat it. And every 30 seconds you were hearing beat it and beat it. And then, when it kind of struck me that for Suncor has become right, keep raising expectations, and then beat it. So whoever chose that song. Thought through it very carefully. Hey, hey man, I have a quick 1, quick 1 for you. You know, we started that sometime ago now and it's a it is 1 of the the the secrets of the crown, what our earnings call is going to be, there are only 3 people who know it ahead of time me my wife and Troy and my wife and Troy have way better uh sense of music than I. So now we're going to bring Adam into the inner circle on it, but we do spend a little bit of time thinking what is the appropriate call for the quarter? So, so thank you for noticing it. Troy smiling because he picked this 1

I I kind of figured it out because a couple of quarters ago, Rich, you were playing either, uh uh, eye of the tiger from Rocky. So it's kind of, you know, your focus is exactly was showing what your song was playing. So I kind of figured that out, that's why I'm going to talk about it.

Um, my quick 1 question here is Sir. When we look at 4 Hills and sin crude cash, operating cost absolutely going in the right direction. Every quarter we are seeing an improvement and just trying to understand uh, what further, improvements can happen over here and and and how much lower can you think? You can take this? Both at 4 Hills and include and I'll turn it over. Thank you.

I'm going to turn it over to my operators here in a minute, but I think this gets at a very culture of the organization of spending how we look at spending money, whether capital or operating it I'll give you a little glimpse of my childhood. My dad would give me 2 bucks to go to the store and get a, you know, a pop and a candy bar and I'd spend, you know, a buck 84 and I'd come back and he'd say, where's my 16 cents? And so it it's it's a philosophy and it's a culture of, we're not spending our money, we need to manage risk to be very thoughtful and Frugal. And the I I think our progress on operating costs is probably 1 of the best. Barometers of is our culture. Permeating deeply capital is allocated around this table, we can add or subtract but operating costs are the decisions of literally thousands of people every day. And that is what each each month when I see the numbers, that's where I get my best sense of yeah. Okay. The organization

Has it but but on a you know what continued Improvement or you know uh Peter you have any comments, particularly you you you spend the bulk of it. Yeah.

Um, and I would say it really does. It does start with building that culture, right? Right from the front line, and we've put a lot of time and effort into building the transparency and an understanding with our Frontline leadership and operators around the decisions they make on a given shift and what the cost implications of of that are and that has proven to be really effective, you start to see that flow through at the bottom line. Now, we are working, as I said, in multiple calls, uh, mining productivity, where we spend the the bulk of our money, and the minds and getting more out of what we have from our mining. Uh, equipment is a really big part of this, uh, cost Journey but we haven't stopped there. We've been working, broadly across the rest of our operations, specifically in, uh, maintenance facil, um, efficiencies on, uh, integrated activity planning and ensuring that we're doing the right work at the right time, and the most efficient way, and building out that capability and knowledge of our front lines of folks that are making the decisions each and every

Every day on uh what cost implications that have and then getting their creative decisions and driving efficiencies higher. And that's really what you're seeing flow through. You know, I think some of the philosophical you know, we we Benchmark Shelley mentioned earlier, we do competitively Benchmark. We look at where gaps are. What actions can we take? So that was a part of our mining strategy on, you know, bigger trucks, fewer trucks, uh, operated better maintained cheaper. You know, that was all part of that philosophy. The um, we have an internal philosophy around, you know, there's inflationary pressures in our business. Well, the market doesn't necessarily give us inflation on our products. So our business plans to to get, you know, to walk in the door. You have to bring business plans to us that have fully offset inflation. And then we want to talk about how do we improve upon that so it's just a real deep recognition. We are in a commodity business and cost.

So, absolutely essential and I say cost. I mean, every dollar we spend whether its capital or operating

1 moment for our next question.

The next question comes from the line of Mano. HOV of TD Securities Mano. Please go ahead.

Thanks and good. Good morning everyone and and congrats to everyone on the call on the changes. Most of my questions have been answered but I'll I'll maybe follow up with a a question on name plate capacity. You you touched on this already for the downstream particular but with certain Upstream assets like firebag also performing well above name plate. Like what are your thoughts on rewrite potential? And I I think the last time you talked about this I think you suggested you were still

working through a discovery process on how each asset could perform on a sustained basis but on balance and it's more of a philosophical question. But what's the, what's the real benefits of rewriting? I could make the argument either way, but curious as to as to how you're thinking about this?

Yeah, you know, I think it's a fair question. Mental on the, what's the benefit on it? It's probably as much as anything as credibility. Do you, how do you repeatedly extract more than 100% of something? So, uh, but our our I'll tell you right now, we internally, we have 2 things, we Steward to you, the historic external, um, utilizations. But that is not at all internal when you come into our executive meetings and we look at assets, we look at their performance relative to their best 30-day average consecutively. So so we have we Run 2 sets of numbers and the goal is to always improve based on historical performance. So, you know, the, the reradiating is, is a bit of a philosophical question on it, but, um, the the same approach that has been taken in the downstream has been applied to the upstream and what is so uniquely similar in our business, is our Upstream has large plant operations, whereas many Upstream around the world.

Don't have that offshore platforms or whatever. So, the same approaches and principles have applied, and you've flagged Firebag in 2022. Firebag averaged 199,000 barrels a day in 2024; it averaged 234,000 in the fourth quarter, which was 250,000.

All without growth investment. So now, what Peter and his team are scrambling to do is be sure. We have the well capacity to feed. We we would rather be a barrel short on the facility than a barrel short on the wells. So Peter has been doing a, an extensive infield drilling program which are extremely lucrative. He's been looking at the expansion of of non-condensable natural gas so we can redeploy steam. So it's a continual chasing of the, the limiter, the last limiter and saying, how do we unlock potential is that? Well, is that facility, but the principles apply across our business upstream and downstream? And I, I, I give kudos to our operating teams because they've embraced this Challenge and they are repeatedly continually finding ways to unlock capacity. And when you're a capital intensive business return on Capital,

That, you know, many cases, I came from a company where for decades, that was the Holy Grail and I, I, I believe that we've spent a lot of money. It's our job to maximize the return on that money. We've spent and I think our suncore teams upstream and downstream are doing a very good job on that. And I think, you know, my guys remind me, we're not done yet.

Thanks for that rich. That's uh that's really helpful. Maybe. My my second question is on your incremental, free funds flow Target and WTI break. Even a Target as well. And last, we were I I didn't see it in the release, but I, I believe the last time we were updated, you were guiding to achievement of both targets by the end of the year, which would have, which would be roughly a 1 year acceleration.

Where do you stand on? On those targets today, is year end. Still a reasonable

A guideline and um, is there is there upside to those targets over time?

Marshawn Lynch, they had Victory. They were high-fiving and celebrating. And for some unknown reason they passed through an inner interception and they literally snatched defeat from the jaws of Victory. They were celebrating before the game was over. We still got 2 more months left. I want this team focused like a laser to finish strong, but I think it is very fair and reasonable that. You will get a comprehensive update on our 3-year plan and how we're doing on that uh, quite early in the new year.

And, and right now,

Home teams looking pretty good.

So you're going to be giving the ball to uh to Marshawn then.

Thanks for that rich. I got a lot of, I got a lot of battering rams on this team so I could get, I could give it to a number of folks.

That's good to hear. Thank you.

1 moment for your last question.

The last question comes from the line of Patrick Oo of ATB Capital Markets. Patrick, please go ahead.

Hey! Good morning, guys. Thanks for taking my question. Of course. Uh, congratulations to Chris, Troy, and Adam there.

uh, sir, first question here with respect to the extension that you guys have done on the turnarounds here

Uh, and you've obviously been very thoughtful about planning and and benchmarking these things. But what what are the signposts? And I'm sure you have them, but maybe you can articulate them to us around, reliability, particularly later, uh, in the cycle with the assets where you've extended the turnarounds there and then if you're thinking about this and I know every asset has sort of a different turnaround cycle but what's the quantification of the volumes to date that you've done through these extensions?

The team you you are take a take a comment on the and I think on the first 1 is where I'd phrase. It is. It's about managing risk and it's about looking at. As we extend intervals, the the confidence that we can do that without, you know, having anything go bloom in the night or and, or cost us more. Why don't you comment on that? And then maybe I'll come back on the the volumetric impact.

I mean, we're really employing a risk space, uh, inspection methodology to see the, the state of our, our current units and then, uh, applying the appropriate, uh, engineering fixed to be able to, uh, assure ourselves that we're able to get these units, kind of to the to the next interval as Shelley said, at the start, we we start with benchmarking. We see where other uh, units of the similar nature are elsewhere in the world. And we, we set our

Star at or above that and then kind of back out. Okay, what needs to be true to make that happen? We apply this risk-based uh inspection methodology and we do the work. That's necessary to give ourselves the confidence to achieve it. Yeah, I think the key 1 thing, I just add to it too. Is is your, your interim is inspection techniques, is your monitoring things? So we don't arbitrarily say, okay, we're going to a 6 year interval and then just wake up 5 years from now and start preparing. You are monitoring Technical and operational data as we go. I like that. You're using more sophisticated techniques. You're using drones in our business. You're using a number of things that help us ensure that those intervals are indeed the right intervals. And what I think we keep finding is, is opportunities to further extend Dave, do you have anything you'd add to it? Yeah. Thanks Rich. And I would just build on what Peter said is when we started our turnaround Journey, we really focused on on

Work selection. And what that did is allow us to do the right work at the right time and have a much better understanding of to, to do that. You have to have a better understanding of the condition of the equipment. And then the natural outcome of that was, hey, looks like the equipment can go longer. Now that we really understand it better from a work selection perspective, we think it can go longer, uh, from a duration or interval perspective. So, it really was an outcome of the, of the work that we've done grounded in benchmarking. We know what the best of the best do for each technology that we operate. Uh, and that's, that's really our

The increase in volumes the this year, the uh, revising guidance upward in both production and refining. Throughput, the bulk of those revisions up are exceptional, turnaround performance related.

Okay, thank you very much.

I am showing no further questions. I will now turn the call back over to Troy little for closing remarks.

Everyone for joining our call this morning.

I look forward to continuing to work with you all on the future and I also want to sincerely thank you for all your support these past several years. If you have any follow-up questions, please don't hesitate to reach out to our team operator. You can end the call.

This concludes today's conference call, thank you for participating. You may now disconnect