Q3 2025 Grindr Inc Earnings Call
Speaker #1: Ladies and gentlemen , thank you for standing by and welcome to Grinder's Third Quarter 2025 Earnings Call . My name is Janine , and I will be your lead operator for today .
Speaker #1: All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise after the speaker's remarks , there will be a question and answer session .
Speaker #1: If you would like to ask a question during this time , simply press star , followed by the number one on your telephone keypad .
Speaker #1: To withdraw your question , please press star one again . I would now like to turn the call over to Tolu Adeofe Reinders , Head of Investor Relations .
Speaker #1: Please go ahead .
Speaker #2: Thank you . Moderator . Hello and welcome to The Grinder earnings call for the third quarter of 2025 . Today's call will be led by grinder CEO George Arison and CFO John North .
Speaker #2: They will make a few brief remarks , and then we'll open it up for questions . Please note , grinder released its shareholder letter .
Speaker #2: This afternoon . And this is available on the website in grinders investor page at investors Grinder . Com . Before we begin , I will remind everyone that during this call , we may discuss our outlook , future performance and future prospects .
Speaker #2: You should not rely on forward looking statements as predictions of future events . These forward looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties , and our actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today .
Speaker #2: Some of the risks that could cause our actual results to differ from views expressed in our forward looking statements , have been set forth in our earnings release and our periodic reports filed with the SEC , including our annual Report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31st , 2024 , or any subsequently filed quarterly reports .
Speaker #2: During today's call , we will also present both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures . Additional disclosures regarding non-GAAP measures , including a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to their most closely comparable GAAP financial measures , are included in the earnings release we issued today , which has been posted on the Investor Relations page of Grinder's website .
Speaker #2: And in Grinder's filings with the SEC . With that , I'll turn it over to George .
Speaker #3: Thanks , Tolu , and hello everyone . The grinder team delivered another awesome quarter with revenue of 30% year over year , and adjusted EBITDA margin of 47% .
Speaker #3: The results put us in a great position as we finish the year . Today we are increasing our expectations for full year 2025 adjusted EBITDA for a range of between 191 and 193 million , implying a margin of greater than 43% .
Speaker #3: And we have a firming our revenue growth outlook of 26% for greater . Our new CFO , John North , will walk you through the results in a moment .
Speaker #3: We're thrilled to have him join Grindr Inc. . Is that high performing finance team that fortune 500 and S&P 500 companies and serves as the public company CEO .
Speaker #3: He's already commented , invaluable partner to A.J. and me as we execute on our long term vision . Over the past three years , we focused on expanding grinders , product surface area , delivering more capabilities and high quality experiences for free and paid user alike .
Speaker #3: On page four , in my shareholder letter , you will see a chart showing that our product expansion has been tremendous , creating enormous value for users and running high conversion , more revenue capture , and an increased revenue per pair offers a richer , more effective experience , powered by strong technology and a broader feature set .
Speaker #3: This is a dual product like albums boost Travel Boost , Udemy , and right now through AI . We have given users access to powerful features like chat summaries , discovery and profile recommendations .
Speaker #3: Co-win was made the grinder app more magical , dynamic and rewarding than it was just a few years ago , and we're only getting started expanding both our product surface area and the value we've created for paying users .
Speaker #3: Let's put us in a strong position to have subscription price changes for the first time since 2018 . We asked subscribers in a large set of test markets to pay slightly more in experience , a de minimis impact on our paying user base .
Speaker #3: With retention exceeding even our most optimistic projections . We're deeply grateful for our paying users vote of confidence in our direction , demonstrated by their willingness to invest more for the new value and capabilities we've built over the next few months .
Speaker #3: We'll continue gathering data and prepare for a global rollout early next year . Concurrently , in one country , we've begun offer testing a new AI powered premium tier designed for power users who want the most advanced and magical experiences .
Speaker #3: Think of it as a flagship , first class cabin of grinder with features that simply weren't possible . 2 or 3 years ago .
Speaker #3: Before AI , this city targets a smaller segment interested in higher value products , offering distinctive user benefits and a meaningful revenue opportunity .
Speaker #3: Beginning in late 2026 and accelerating in 2027 , our rich , free experience remains central to grinders power , fueling the unmatched scale and vitality of our network , capturing revenue through exceptional value added features enable us to continue bolstering an already rich , free experience and to maintain the open , conversational architecture that makes grinder unique among any gay or straight platform .
Speaker #3: There will always remain a top priority . A defining strength of grinder is its ability to renew itself with new users . Every year .
Speaker #3: Gay and bi men all over the world join as they become adults . Grinder is often the first place they learn about being gay .
Speaker #3: Explore gay culture , and find all types of connections in casual dates and hookups to love to work hard to friendships . This generation influx gives a platform vibrant , relevant , and ever growing with younger cohorts driving engagement across the network and older ones driving monetization to help illustrate this characteristic , which is very unique to our platform , with included a one time demographic disclosure with our shareholder letter .
Speaker #3: It highlights why grinders strong , consistent engagement , especially among users aged 18 to 29 who make up a majority of our global user base , positions us for durable , long term growth .
Speaker #3: We recognize that many of our investors aren't grinder users and hope these insights make our user dynamics and community more tangible to you .
Speaker #3: Overall , the products and business are performing exceptionally well , and the team remains laser focused on delivering more value and more success to our users every day .
Speaker #3: Before I wrap up , I'm sure everyone has seen the filings from two of our large shareholders raise Age and James Lou proposing to take grinder private .
Speaker #3: The board has formed a special committee of independent disinterested directors to evaluate the proposal . The committee is working with its own independent financial and legal advisors .
Speaker #3: When the company , that process will run its course , our team remains unwaveringly focused on execution . We are fortunate to work every day on things we love that bring happiness to millions of people and make a world that is more free , equal and just has enormous potential to create value while continuing to deliver a product of deep importance to its users .
Speaker #3: And our job is to keep standpoint driving towards that , as all we'll say on this matter , at this time . And we won't be taking any questions about it on today's call .
Speaker #3: Thank you to the team for delivering outstanding results . We are reporting today . We're proud of what we've achieved . Excited for a strong finish to the year , setting the stage for another standout year in 2026 .
Speaker #3: Now here's John to cover the results . Thank you George . And it's great to be here with all of you .
Speaker #4: I look forward to meeting many of you in the near future . I'm excited to be a part of grinder and with the incredibly talented team is building .
Speaker #4: I've known and respected George for a long time , and the grinder business model is among the most powerful I've ever seen . I see my role as further strengthening the finance organization , expanding our capital markets , relationships , and ensuring the company scales efficiently and profitably as we deliver on our vision .
Speaker #4: As George highlighted , we had a phenomenal Q3 . Total revenue was up 30% year over year to $116 million . Adjusted EBITDA of $55 million was up 37% year over year , resulting in two points of margin improvement to 47% , a record for grinder .
Speaker #4: Our direct revenue grew 25% year over year , while indirect revenue was up 56% . Our Ads business was the primary driver of outperformance in the quarter , as we saw strong results from international third party advertising partners in the core app , revenue growth was driven by our strength and our unlimited tier , which this year saw the introduction of additional duration options and feature updates alongside the ongoing success of our weeklies product across subscription tiers , our user KPIs are strong , with an average of 1.3 million paying users in the quarter for an improved penetration rate of 8.6% .
Speaker #4: Average MoU totaled 15.1 million in Rpu was $24.70 . Our adjusted EBITDA margin performance reflected the strong flow through of our revenue outperformance to the bottom lines , as well as higher capitalized product development costs , operating expenses , excluding cost of revenue , were up 9% year over year , largely related to people costs .
Speaker #4: As we execute on our innovation roadmap , including our AI initiatives , Grindr Inc. net income for Q3 was $31 million , or $0.16 per diluted share , compared with $25 million , or $0.09 per share , a year ago .
Speaker #4: We generated approximately $51 million in free cash flow in the third quarter . Year to date , we've repurchased 25.1 million shares of our common stock for approximately $450 million , leaving us with $50 million remaining under our current authorization .
Speaker #4: As of September 30th , our board regularly reviews capital allocation plans , including options for returning excess cash . Turning now to our guidance , our strong Q3 results give us increased confidence in our 2025 outlook .
Speaker #4: And as George mentioned , we now expect our full year 2025 adjusted EBITDA will be between 191 and $193 million , implying a margin greater than 43% .
Speaker #4: And we are reaffirming our revenue growth outlook of 26% or greater . As I noted in the PNL review , our 30% total revenue growth in Q3 was largely driven by outperformance Ads business , which we do not expect to repeat in Q4 .
Speaker #4: in our
Speaker #4: Recall that in our 2024 fourth quarter , we benefited from a large one time brand campaign . In conclusion , Q3 was a very strong quarter that reinforces Grindr's powerful business model .
Speaker #4: We're in a great position to deliver on our annual guidance , which we increased earlier this year and are advising upward today . And with that , we'll open the call up for some questions .
Speaker #1: Thank you , ladies and gentlemen . We will now begin the question and answer session . I would like to remind everyone to press star one .
Speaker #1: If you would like to raise your question , to withdraw your question , please press star one again . Our first question comes from the line of Andrew Marra from Raymond James .
Speaker #1: Sir , your line is open .
Speaker #5: Thank you for taking my questions . I wanted to talk quickly on pricing first , so I think you've mentioned in the past and your payer conversion rate kind of points to this , that given that grinder had a little bit farther to go in terms of product breadth , that getting users to pay at all was one of the the biggest milestones that you would make as a , as a user .
Speaker #5: So I guess in light of that , how do you balance that philosophy of raising prices versus getting people to pay at all ?
Speaker #5: Like is the increased price a potential higher barrier to make that first purchase . ?
Speaker #3: Hi Andrew , good to talk to you . We are obviously excited for users to pay if they've not paid before , but we also believe it's important for users who are getting a lot more product in the paid tiers and a lot more value to pay a little bit more for that value .
Speaker #3: And the price changes are , I think , fairly minor in the large scheme of things , given the amount of value that we've added to the product , we have seen significant growth in a number of paying users .
Speaker #3: Change over the last three years has been pretty significant . As you know , I think we went from something like 6.5% to 8.5% .
Speaker #3: And , you know , that's I think speaks for a lot , especially given that Mao has also grown dramatically in that time period .
Speaker #3: And , you know , secondly , we want to maintain a very robust , free offering . I think one of the things you'll see in the shareholder letter in the disclosure that younger users who constitute a vast majority of our user base worldwide and nearly a majority of our user base in the United States and the UK , tend to pay at a much lower rate than slightly older users .
Speaker #3: So on page eight of the letter , you'll see that , you know , 18 to 22 year olds have the lowest penetration , and then that kind of increases dramatically as they go to 30 , 39 or 40 , 40 , 49 , etc.
Speaker #3: . And so we kind of have a two part strategy , right ? On the one hand , we want as many young users coming into the product and having a really awesome experience through a very robust , free offering where they can use all the features that we offer , including being able to talk to anybody for free with no limits .
Speaker #3: We're the only product of our kind that has that , whether gay or straight , and then from from there , we want people to be able to pay for the value added services that we offer them .
Speaker #3: And what we're learning is that people who , you know , as , they , as they age and get older , they end up getting more value from the features that we offer .
Speaker #3: In paid tiers . And they're willing to pay for those . What we've seen in our price testing , as prices have changed , is that we've had very little to de minimis change in our conversion rates .
Speaker #3: When you compare new prices versus old , which is really great , and it speaks to the fact that people value the products they're getting in those paid tiers .
Speaker #3: And then a couple more things on that. Number one is we do monetize our free users through ads. Obviously, we had a significant increase in our ad revenue over the last three years as well.
Speaker #3: And we continue to do very well there . And , you know , I think that's important component of that equation as well .
Speaker #3: We have thought about whether we should offer a cheaper tier as well for users who might want to not have ads at all , but are not quite ready to pay for extra because they don't need the value that extra includes in terms of features and and products .
Speaker #3: And that's something we're still thinking about . I don't want to promise either way that we'll do that , but that's certainly a possibility as a way to get more people to potentially be payers .
Speaker #3: But if you do that , you actually won't have that big of a revenue impact because you know , the price point on that would be fairly low .
Speaker #3: And then lastly , I think the important thing for us is by creating a lot more product value , we are not asking people to pay a little bit more for that .
Speaker #3: This isn't just a price raise for the sake of a price raise , or because we want to make more money , it's to ensure that users who are enjoying a lot more value in the experiences because they extra and the unlimited are way more robust today than they were three years ago .
Speaker #3: As a result of a lot more product area that we've created in those tiers , actually paying for the value they're getting from those tiers .
Speaker #3: .
Speaker #5: Got it ? Really appreciate that . And then maybe if you could just give us a quick update on how some of the newer products , especially thinking of something like right now , is trending in terms of things like engagement metrics .
Speaker #5: And to the extent that you can measure them , things like user satisfaction or outcomes . Thank you .
Speaker #3: I don't really have much new to say on that beyond what we've said before , which I'll be happy to repeat . You know , I think the way we tend to think of our products is launch a lot of product surface area .
Speaker #3: Some will be free , some will be paid . We want to have a robust free offering and some things that are more special might be offered to paying users only with right now , our objective was to dramatically increase the surface of free product .
Speaker #3: So everybody who is on Grindr , whether paid or free , can utilize right now and enjoy it . You know , somewhere in between 20 and 25% of our users posting right now at least once a week .
Speaker #3: And you know , over 75% of our users look at right now postings within in once people are in right now , which I think shows a really high engagement and and we are very happy about that .
Speaker #3: But obviously, there is a lot more that you can do with right now. I was in New York a couple of weeks ago, where we have the mapping feature in right now on as well.
Speaker #3: I'll be totally honest . I was not sold on the idea of mapping in right now when the team first went after it , but when you're in New York and are seeing the product kind of in your hands , it's a really incredible , magical experience .
Speaker #3: And looks really , really nice . And I think people really like that . And so we're really happy with where the product is trending .
Speaker #3: And normally we don't really share a lot of product metrics , but I do want to call out again in the shareholder letter , we did share a very extensive disclosure on our user base and kind of how that is split out .
Speaker #3: The fact that , you know , we have in the US , for example , 15% of our users are ages 18 to 22 , 31% of our users are ages 23 to 29 .
Speaker #3: That's 46% of all kind of profiles are kind of in that age range of 18 to 29 . And that's to me is something that kind of speaks to the uniqueness of Grindr as a business .
Speaker #3: And a product . And the fact that users , the younger generation really likes what they're getting in the product . And it's very much working for them .
Speaker #3: So as long as our products are accomplishing the idea of bringing young people into the product as they become adults , as a rite of passage like it has for the last 15 years , I think we're in a very strong position .
Speaker #5: Got it . Thank you very much .
Speaker #1: Thank you . Our next question comes from the line of John Blackledge from TD Cohen . Sir , your line is open .
Speaker #6: Hey there , it's Logan Walley on for John . Thanks for the question . So just just looking at top of funnel Maus grew nicely again in three .
Speaker #6: Q could you discuss any trends which drove the top of funnel users higher in the quarter ? And then also in two ? Q you called out some significant removal of bad actors in a certain region .
Speaker #6: Could you just update us on any similar efforts globally ? And three Q and then looking forward , just based on health of the platform ?
Speaker #6: Thank you .
Speaker #3: Thanks for the questions . So first let's start with what it is that we actually report . We report monthly active devices not users .
Speaker #3: And not profiles . A lot of Grindr users have more than one profile , and those are pretty hard to debug in terms of are they one individual or two that happens for many different reasons .
Speaker #3: Some people might have a profile that is more friendship focused , and then they might have a profile that is more casual , dating focused , and they have different information on those profiles .
Speaker #3: And we definitely don't discourage that and are happy with users having more than one profile . So the best way for us to debug what we report is monthly active device , not user .
Speaker #3: And I think it's really important for people to understand, especially when they try to compare it to external data, which, as we have spoken before, tends to be perpetually wrong about Kleiner information.
Speaker #3: I think in part because people don't pay attention to what it is that Grindr actually reports . And secondly , you know , our ecosystem is really the health of the ecosystem is really important to us .
Speaker #3: And so as we see , you know , bad actors come into the ecosystem , whether those are spammers or other types of bad actors , we take actions to remove them over the last 2 to 3 years .
Speaker #3: I think all social networking companies would validate this . Statements have become more sophisticated with AI , and that means that you have to become more sophisticated in fighting them .
Speaker #3: And as we do that , you know , it can impact now in Q2 , it we are in the first half of the year .
Speaker #3: There were a significant impact on Mao . And we've spoken about that . It doesn't always impact now when we go after bad actors , because some bad actors have profiles that don't have a device ID associated with them .
Speaker #3: They do that by spoofing Android devices . That's a known kind of flaw with the Android ecosystem that you can do . And so when we remove actors that are bad , that don't have a monthly active device , they don't get associated with Mao one way or the other because they were never in our model in any way .
Speaker #3: But but when we remove bad actors that do have devices , they do . Thirdly , you know , we have never really done much to drive Mao growth .
Speaker #3: Our growth is almost completely organically through word of mouth . As I said earlier , Grindr is a rite of passage for people as they turn 18 .
Speaker #3: And if they are gay , they come to Grindr as a way to figure out , you know , who they are , what it's like to be gay , to start meeting people for any number of types of connections .
Speaker #3: And so organically , our mouth tends to grow really nicely . We're very happy with our growth . And frankly , the numbers that you're seeing in terms of growth are very much in line with our long term guidance assumptions that we shared at Investor Day a year and a half ago .
Speaker #3: And then lastly , I'll call out again the disclosure towards of user demographics . You know , you couldn't have the demographics that we have in our profile set that we share on page seven and eight .
Speaker #3: Unless you are attracting a lot of new users , it would be impossible to have 15% of the user base be 18 to 22 .
Speaker #3: In the United States , when only 9% of the US adult male population is in that age cohort . Unless you're constantly attracting people who are young and attracting them in a very high rate .
Speaker #3: And that's even more true internationally in places like India and Philippines , etc. , where , you know , older users are still stigmatized and might not feel comfortable being gay , while younger users are coming out and more comfortable .
Speaker #3: So in those places , I user base is even more heavily young , and a lot of our focus is ensuring that we continue doing that through the right product initiatives .
Speaker #3: So we serve this younger adult male cohort as well as we possibly can .
Speaker #4: Great .
Speaker #6: Thanks , George . Maybe one other question . Just on the premium tier , you mentioned that it would be designed for power users .
Speaker #6: Like , could you give us any kind of an idea of what how many power users are on the Grindr platform ? Like what percentage of overall users might , might kind of fall into this bucket that you're designing the subscription for ?
Speaker #3: Yeah . So the premium tier was a significant component of what we envisioned in terms of the long term strategy that we shared at Investor Day .
Speaker #3: Because we knew that a lot of our investments would be around AI features, which are really magical and previously were not possible to build.
Speaker #3: We are building building those and making them available . And we just think that the amount of the amount of value that we will be generating through those features and products for people , you know , we will we will see .
Speaker #3: I think people need to be prepared to pay , you know , for the value that they'll be getting from that . That tier is meant for our power users and for a very select set of people .
Speaker #3: We don't expect a huge number of people going into that , but it will be priced appropriately for that . You know , we have something like , you know , I think 350,000 unlimited subscribers .
Speaker #3: So if you imagine that 20% of those subscribers switched over to unlimited , I think you'd have , sorry , two to the premium tier , you'd have , you know , a very nice kind of growth in our revenue , because that's a significant dollar amount at the price point that we are thinking about .
Speaker #3: And I would call that like a good home . If , you know , 30 or 40 or 50% of our unlimited users switch to the premium tier , then you'd have like a grand slam because it'd be like an incredible result .
Speaker #3: I don't know which one of those is going to happen . That's why we need a few quarters of testing and learning to understand what happens .
Speaker #3: But I do know that the kinds of features that we offer in the in this new premium tier are pretty magical . And I think a lot of people will be very happy with them .
Speaker #3: But at no point have we thought about it as something that a very large percentage of our overall user base will will utilize .
Speaker #3: This is very much meant for our power users who can benefit from the unique features that will be put into that TRL that have already been put into that tier and quite frankly , I think one of maybe five people in the United States who is in the beta because the beta is starting somewhere else .
Speaker #3: And when you use Grindr with these features , it is a very , very different experience . We are entering a fairly senior product candidate about two weeks ago , and kind of walked him through what it's like on the app and he's like , wow , that's really , really special .
Speaker #3: And I really , very much hope that everybody else feels the same way as this tier kind of extends more broadly to being available to more people .
Speaker #3: But I would not expect it to have a global rollout until , you know , at the earliest , sometime in H2O next year .
Speaker #4: Yeah , maybe . George , if I can just jump in and add on to that , you know , the one thing I want to triangulate back to is that we are looking at continued investment in these enhancements that are going to bring new and exciting features and differentiation as we move forward .
Speaker #4: And that's been contemplated in the three year plan that we put out in the summer of 2024 . We're going to finish the year at better than a 43% EBITDA margin .
Speaker #4: But I want to make sure we remind everyone that in that plan , we anticipated many of these investments . And so we still think triangulating to the EBITDA margin range we gave at the time of 39 to 42% .
Speaker #4: As you think about years 26 and 2027 is an important point to keep in mind and that you can't just , you know , roll forward what we may finish this year at .
Speaker #4: As you think about next year and beyond .
Speaker #6: Great . Thank you both . I'll hop back in the queue .
Speaker #1: Thank you . Our question will come from the line of Andrew Boon from citizens Bank . Please go ahead .
Speaker #7: Thanks so much for taking the questions . Three for me . If I could , I would love to get an update in terms of international , just how did that trend in the quarter and new initiatives you guys may have in terms of localization or anything else we should think about ?
Speaker #7: There ? Gay I George , can you just talk about the bigger opportunity with with that product in the quarter and kind of what's your vision in terms of bringing more AI tools in terms of incorporating AI into the neighborhood and then lastly , just on advertising , can you guys just help us understand it sounds like it was very strong in the quarter .
Speaker #7: What was the driver of that growth ? Is there anything to call out ? And then how do we think about that going forward ?
Speaker #7: Thanks so much .
Speaker #3: Great . Thank you for all that . I wrote it down , but hopefully I don't forget if I do , please , please remind me I'm not ignoring any of the questions .
Speaker #3: They're all fun things to talk about . So on international , what we said at Investor Day is that international is a very large opportunity for Grindr .
Speaker #3: And I'll walk you through kind of how we then any think about that . But first , to kind of preface , I think one of the main jobs of the CEO is twofold , right ?
Speaker #3: Number one is to paraphrase and have a very prominent CFO , CEO whom I really admire is to amp things up , meaning to put pressure for things to happen as fast as possible and as many things to get done as possible .
Speaker #3: And I think everyone who knows me knows that I'm constantly ramping it up on the team . But concurrently with that , I never really critical places to prioritize things properly .
Speaker #3: If you try to do everything , you'll get nothing done . Well and finding the right prioritization on things is really important . There's a lot to do at Grindr .
Speaker #3: When we got started three years ago , and we've been , you know , prioritizing things based on what we thought was most critical .
Speaker #3: And in total fairness , I think going after our international opportunity was not as tough of a priority as some other things have been .
Speaker #3: So far , because those were more important even for the user base or for the perspective of what we wanted to achieve over the long term , which still means that international is a huge opportunity and it's something that should be viewed as upside .
Speaker #3: When you think about it from the long term modeling perspective , rather than something that we assumed would be the case in our three year plan that we shared June , you know , 2024 , the way we think of international is in three buckets .
Speaker #3: So first , in countries where we already have a pretty significant presence and those countries are economically advanced , we believe that there is opportunity to continue driving more users to become paying customers .
Speaker #3: And to pay for the extra value that they're seeing from the added new features that we're building . So , you know , we our penetration in Europe , for example , is lower than our penetration is is in in the United States .
Speaker #3: And we'd love to do things that would help us drive that penetration to be more akin to the US in mainland Europe , which we think is possible .
Speaker #3: Obviously , US will continue to grow as well . Saying US is going to just stop growing , but if we could get them closer to us , levels of penetration or even the UK's levels of penetration , that would be a really big win .
Speaker #3: So that is one bucket of focus for international is Europe . And countries like Europe , in terms of their economic development , get them to have more payers .
Speaker #3: Number two is countries where we have very large sets of users and do okay on payers , but we believe that there is still opportunity for people to learn that we exist and to use us have a ton of user growth opportunity .
Speaker #3: Places like that are Brazil , Philippines , you know , rest of Latin America , Mexico , Colombia , Chile , etc. and you know , Asian countries like Thailand , Vietnam .
Speaker #3: But potentially Cambodia , you know , in many of these places , we know from research that a very large number of people in our user cohort know that we exist , and those that know about us use us .
Speaker #3: But then there are a bunch of others that don't know about us . And because our brand recognition is not as high in those countries as it is in the United States or the UK , and so as they learn about us , we believe there'll be opportunity for them to start using us , which we think will be very valuable .
Speaker #3: And then the third bucket is India , which you know , should be called out separately because of its size . You know , ten years ago it was illegal to be gay in India .
Speaker #3: So obviously there's a ton of social stigma attached with being gay . It is changing for young users . As you can see from the data that we shared .
Speaker #3: But we want to be present there as the social transition changes or happens , and as more and more people become comfortable with who they are and you know , kind of continue to be the primary product for gay people in India .
Speaker #3: Like we already are . As many more of them become comfortable using our product . And so that's the kind of opportunity a lot of what we need to do internationally is around localization of the product .
Speaker #3: That might be simple . Things like how we show show up in a specific language in a given country . You know , we don't use a lot of slang in how we describe ourselves in a lot of these places in our translations , and we probably should and kind of what how people communicate in those languages to what kind of imagery we show you in each of these countries .
Speaker #3: And then on a more advanced level , what kind of products do we build ? If you go to New Delhi , for example , and you open up Grindr , the grid will look very , very different from what the grid looks like in New York .
Speaker #3: You know , everywhere there are a lot of people who are discreet and who might not show their face or might not have a picture at all .
Speaker #3: But in India , you know , vast majority of people don't show their face in a picture at all because it's still really hard to be gay .
Speaker #3: And so maybe in a place like India , the grid should actually look a little bit different . Maybe we should allow people to have AI generated , you photos that they can post .
Speaker #3: I'm not saying that's what we would do , but like you can imagine through a product solving the problem of the sweetness in India differently than you deal with it in other places because they have unique needs in that country .
Speaker #3: And those are all things that we can do to help grow our presence . And obviously through marketing , we can do a lot as well .
Speaker #3: We've spoken on the show a lot about the fact that we have now launched our Spanish speaking social media channels . We've also launched our first social show in Spanish , and those are the kinds of things we'll be doing in other languages as well , such as Portuguese .
Speaker #3: And for specific countries like India as well . So that's on international . When it comes to AI , you know , we believe that AI and ID tell this quite a bit in a , in a document we shared last quarter about AI , incumbent companies with a lot of data can benefit significantly if they start taking advantage of AI early before potential challengers are able to catch up with data .
Speaker #3: Because AI is better with data . And if you are kind of at the forefront , you can make your product be very , very different from the technology point of view .
Speaker #3: With AI . And and we do want our product to be turned into an AI native product . And that's very much what we've been striving to do by retraining models to be able to speak a and I think we're doing a pretty good job at that .
Speaker #3: And then being able to use those models inside our product to do specific new experiences that previously did not exist . To start with , a lot of those experiences will go into the premium tier that I spoke about in the previous question , in the shareholder letter , and that'll be things like insights , where we will actually provide users with detailed information about people that might be talking to , that we can infer based on people's behaviors or conversations .
Speaker #3: Obviously , that will only be done with permission , meaning only people who agree to be part of our AI features will be able to see those features , and we'll we'll have those features or that information available about them in the app .
Speaker #3: And our kind of product that we've built through AI is called A-list , which goes through all your messages and creates a shortlist of people that we believe you should keep talking to .
Speaker #3: And gives you summaries of conversations that you had with those people , brings together all the photos that you've exchanged with those people , all in a really nice summarized folder that , you know , makes it much easier for you to navigate the product .
Speaker #3: You can envision that as a next step of that , we will add a little button that will be the button , and you can start asking AI questions about that specific user that you were previously talking to .
Speaker #3: So if something that you discussed previously does not appear in the chat summary , you can say , hey , I believe we talked about XYZ .
Speaker #3: Can you get that information back to me to remind me what it is that we exactly talked about ? So very similar to what grok is doing inside X , where you can actually get information about a specific post with a lot more detail .
Speaker #3: That would be quite that's quite beneficial . So those are the kinds of features that we are working on . I don't know of a lot of consumer facing products that are doing the kind of stuff that we're doing , yet , but at the same way that Grindr invented the use of mobile in the way it is used today , I think will be at the forefront of using AI in the consumer experiences in the future .
Speaker #3: And for advertising , I'll switch over to John to speak about .
Speaker #8: That .
Speaker #4: Yeah . Thanks , George . We did have a good quarter in terms of our advertising growth . That's been an area of focus .
Speaker #4: You know , both through the TPA and then the direct piece , you know , it's also a very nice contribution margin because it doesn't have the cost of sales associated with the subscriptions .
Speaker #4: Do you know , coming through the app stores . So that tends to be more accretive to , EBITDA . And we and we did see some benefit in that in the third quarter .
Speaker #4: You're right to call it out . But more importantly , I wanted to focus and just remember remind everyone that last year we had a pretty significant direct advertising boost .
Speaker #4: In the fourth quarter that we don't expect to continue this year . And so that's contemplated in the range of guidance that we gave .
Speaker #4: And , you know , certainly we think this is an area that can continue to be focused for us and that it should give us opportunity for potential additional growth in the future .
Speaker #4: There is much more we can do here , and we've had good success with Brian and the advertising team , but we're going to continue to look for ways to grow that in 2026 and beyond .
Speaker #7: Thank you .
Speaker #1: Thank you again . Should you have a question , please press star one . There are no further questions at this time . I will now turn the call .
Speaker #1: We have a question . By the way , from John Blackledge from TD Cowan .
Speaker #6: Hey there . It's again . Hi there . It's Logan on for John again . Just maybe one follow up on the on the user base breakdown .
Speaker #6: It's really interesting . Could you could you could you talk maybe about any trends you've seen over time or since you've come on board George in usage amongst different age groups like have you seen any trends among older age groups or younger age groups like More engagement or less engagement over time and do you think do you think they're like , you may have any initiatives in place in the future to kind of boost engagement amongst specific age demos , like maybe older people , for example ?
Speaker #6: Thanks .
Speaker #3: Yeah , great question . Thank you for that . We we debated whether we should put in more , but we thought for competitive reasons probably kind of what we shared made sense because we do have obviously data on the things you're asking .
Speaker #3: So I'll try to speak to it directionally without , you know , being too specific , because I thought that for competitive reasons , releasing more of that would be potentially risky .
Speaker #3: You know what we what we know are the following things . One is , you know , our young adults , meaning people in the 18 to 35 age range tend to do a lot of communication with each other , but they also get messaged a lot by older users and they respond to all the users as well .
Speaker #3: Whereas the younger adult cohorts, such as 18 to 30, don't actually initiate a lot of conversations with older users themselves.
Speaker #3: Since we know that they actually do respond to people who are older when they get messages . That is something that you could probably solve through product , because I think what happens is a lot of younger adults , such as 18 to 30 year olds , might feel uncomfortable messaging somebody who's older because they think , hey , this older person might want to talk to me .
Speaker #3: And that's why they're not messaging out to them , but they are getting messages from them , and then they're willing to respond .
Speaker #3: And so that is something that we could sell. You know, solve through product by saying, by having product features that kind of facilitate that a little better.
Speaker #3: We also do know from our older users , kind of in that 50 plus age demo . And I know I'm approaching that cohort soon .
Speaker #3: So , you know , I'm kind of learning about that more . Is that sometimes , you know , they they don't always feel as welcome in the app as they did before .
Speaker #3: They all have Grindr accounts . But as they age , their priorities tend to change . And and as a result , sometimes they don't quite feel as at home .
Speaker #3: And definitely can do things . I think through product to make that experience be better for them . That is part of the thinking behind the premium tier and the AI features , with insights , right ?
Speaker #3: Because part of what we can do with insights is tell a user, you know, yes, this person is likely to engage really well with you based on what we know about you.
Speaker #3: And that , I think would be very helpful for users who are older , who might feel a little bit uncomfortable with the app because their priorities today might be different .
Speaker #3: Right ? If you are a , you know , 45 year old or 50 year old guy with kids living in the suburbs , priorities are probably different than what they were when you were in your 20s and frequented circuit parties a lot , so I think those are the kinds of things that insights can really help solve .
Speaker #3: And that's something that we are envisioning . Obviously , all the users do have more disposable income as well . And so I think the alignment there is quite interesting in terms of offering them better , you know , better functionality .
Speaker #3: That is unique through AI . That is also , you know , creates a lot more we them . And so is more expensive at the same time .
Speaker #3: Does that answer the question or any follow ups on that ?
Speaker #6: Yeah , that's that's awesome . That's excellent . Thank you George .
Speaker #1: Thank you .
Speaker #3: Before we close , unless there are more questions I just do want to add one other thing . You know , Grindr is an 18 plus product only .
Speaker #3: We do not allow people who are under 18 on the product . You cannot download the product if you are not 18 on either Android or iOS , and you cannot log in to Grindr by creating an account on the web , we only allow you to create accounts through value for the app stores .
Speaker #3: And so whenever I refer to younger users , I'm referring to people 18 and older . Nobody below 18 .