Q3 2025 Rithm Capital Corp Earnings Call

Speaker #3: Good morning and welcome to the Rithm Capital Corp. Third Quarter 2020 Earnings Call . All participants will be in listen only mode . Should you need assistance , please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key , followed by zero .

Operator: Good morning and welcome to the Rithm Capital Corp. third quarter 2025 earnings call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star then one on a touchtone phone. To withdraw your question, please press star and then two. Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Emma Poller, Associate General Counsel. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: After today's presentation , there will be an opportunity to ask questions to ask a question , you may press star , then one on your touchtone phone to withdraw your question .

Speaker #3: Please press star and then two . Please note this event is being recorded . I would now like to turn the conference over to Emma Hawkey , Associate General Counsel .

Speaker #3: Please go ahead .

Speaker #4: Thank you and good morning , everyone . I would like to thank you for joining us today for Rhythm Capital's third quarter 2020 earnings call .

Emma Poller: Thank you and good morning everyone. I would like to thank you for joining us today for Rithm Capital Corp.'s third quarter 2025 earnings call. Joining me today are Michael Nierenberg, Chairman, CEO and President of Rithm Capital Corp., Nick Santoro, Chief Financial Officer of Rithm Capital Corp., and Baron Silverstein, President of Newrez LLC. Throughout the call we are going to reference the earnings supplement that was posted this morning to the Rithm Capital Corp. website www.rithmcap.com. If you've not already done so, I'd encourage you to download the presentation now. I would like to point out that certain statements made today will be forward-looking statements. These statements by their nature are uncertain and may differ materially from actual results.

Speaker #4: Joining me today are Michael Chairman , CEO and president of Rhythm Capital . Nick Santoro chief Financial officer , Rhythm Capital and Baron Silverstein president of New .

Speaker #4: Throughout the call , we are going to reference the earnings supplement that was posted this morning to the Rhythm Capital website . If you've not already done so , I'd encourage you to download the presentation now .

Speaker #4: I would like to point out that certain statements made today will be forward looking statements . These statements , by their nature , are uncertain and may differ materially from actual results .

Speaker #4: I encourage you to review the disclaimers in our press release and earnings supplement regarding forward looking statements , and to review the risk factors contained in our annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC .

Emma Poller: I encourage you to review the disclaimers in our press release and earnings supplement regarding forward-looking statements and to review the risk factors contained in our annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC. In addition, we will be discussing some non-GAAP financial measures during today's call. Reconciliations of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in our earnings supplement. With that I will turn the call over to Michael.

Speaker #4: In addition , we will be discussing some non-GAAP financial measures during today's call . Reconciliations of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in our earnings supplement .

Speaker #4: And with that , I will turn the call over to Michael .

Speaker #5: Thanks , Emma . Good morning , everyone , and thanks for joining the call this morning . Our company had a great quarter with all of our business lines performing extremely well .

Michael Nierenberg: Thanks Emma. Good morning everyone and thanks for joining the call this morning. Our company had a great quarter with all of our business lines performing extremely well. Our market leading business lines that enabled us to get here, Newrez, our mortgage company which is one of the largest mortgage companies in the U.S., Genesis Capital, our construction lender which is one of the largest non-bank construction lenders in the U.S., and our investment portfolio and team all had a really good quarter. As we look at all the business lines that we built or acquired, this enabled us to generate approximately $300 million in earnings for our shareholders, generating an 18% ROE. We ended the quarter with $2.2 billion of cash and liquidity.

Speaker #5: Our market leading business lines that enabled us to get here . New raise our mortgage company , which is one of the largest mortgage companies in the US .

Speaker #5: Genesis is a construction lender, which is one of the largest non-bank construction lenders in the U.S., and our investment portfolio and team all had a really good quarter.

Speaker #5: As we look at all the business lines that we built or acquired, this enabled us to generate approximately $300 million in earnings for our shareholders, generating an 18% ROE.

Speaker #5: We ended the quarter with 2.2 billion of cash and liquidity . During the quarter , we announced two acquisitions . Crestline , which is a credit manager based out of Fort Worth , Texas , and Paramount , which is a large real estate office REIT here based in New York City .

Michael Nierenberg: During the quarter we announced two acquisitions, Crestline Investors, which is a credit manager based out of Fort Worth, Texas, and Paramount Group, which is a large real estate office REIT here based in New York with properties in two of the gateway cities in the U.S., both New York and San Francisco. To be clear, we will not be raising equity in the capital markets to fund these acquisitions. We will fund these acquisitions with a combination of balance sheet capital and third party LPs and partners. The capital created by these business lines helps us expand our platform. When we see an opportunity to acquire a company or an asset that helps expand our product offerings to our LPs, we try and take advantage of these types of situations. We are really excited with these acquisitions.

Speaker #5: With properties in two of the Gateway cities in the US . Both New York and San Francisco . So we are clear we will not be raising equity in the capital markets to fund these acquisitions .

Speaker #5: We will fund these acquisitions with a combination of balance sheet and third party LPs , and partners . The capital created by these business lines helped us expand our platform .

Speaker #5: When we see an opportunity to acquire a company or an asset that helps expand our product offerings to our LPs , we try and take advantage of these types of situations .

Speaker #5: We are really excited with these acquisitions . Crestline is an 18 to $20 billion asset manager with great people , great investment professionals offering direct lending , Nav , lending , credit products .

Michael Nierenberg: Crestline Investors is an $18-20 billion asset manager with great people, great investment professionals offering direct lending, NAV lending, credit products. They also have an insurance business and a reinsurance business. Now we're in the insurance business. The suite of products that we have across our firm at Rithm and our subsidiaries enable us to offer a wide spectrum of credit and asset-backed finance (ABF) products to our LP base and, quite frankly, put us on the stage to be able to compete against anyone. Our mantra of performance first will enable us to grow our platforms. We are not, to be clear, in an AUM race. More importantly, what we want to do is lead with results. When we meet with LPs, they want fewer managers with more products and I believe we are in the middle of accomplishing that.

Speaker #5: They also have an insurance business and a reinsurance business . So now we're in the insurance business . The suite of products that we have across our firm are at rhythm and our subsidiaries enable us to offer a wide spectrum of credit and ABF products to our LP base .

Speaker #5: And quite frankly , put us on the stage to be able to compete against anyone . Our mantra of performance first will enable us to grow our platforms .

Speaker #5: We are not to be clear in an AUM race . More importantly , what we want to do is lead with results . When we meet with LPs , they want fewer managers , with more products and I believe we are .

Speaker #5: We are in the middle of accomplishing that . During the quarter , as I mentioned , we also announced the acquisition of Paramount .

Michael Nierenberg: During the quarter, as I mentioned, we also announced the acquisition of Paramount Group. Paramount Group is a Class A office REIT with a great portfolio of office buildings in New York and San Francisco. There's 13 properties there. We are seeing huge demand for office in both New York and the recovery in San Francisco has already begun. Acquiring assets for a little under $600 per foot versus replacement costs of $2,500 to $3,000 a foot gets us really excited. In New York, this portfolio is north of 90% leased, and in San Francisco it's in the low 70%, creating a huge opportunity for us to grow NOI. When you look at the Paramount Group portfolio, not only will we grow occupancy, we also believe in the ability to drive rents higher as the average rent is approximately $85 per foot.

Speaker #5: Paramount is a class A office REIT with a great portfolio of office buildings in New York and San Francisco . There's 13 properties there .

Speaker #5: We are seeing huge demand for office space in both New York City, and the recovery in San Francisco has already begun, acquiring assets for a little under $600 per foot versus replacement costs of $2,500 to $3,000.

Speaker #5: A foot gets us really excited in New York , this portfolio , this portfolio is north of 90% leased and in San Francisco , it's in the low 70s , creating a huge opportunity for us to grow .

Speaker #5: NOI . When you look at the Paramount portfolio , not only will we grow occupancy , we also believe in the ability to drive rents higher as the average rent is approximately $85 per foot .

Speaker #5: For example , when we think about the need for office space , rhythm and our affiliates have a need for 100,000 of new space .

Michael Nierenberg: For example, when we think about the need for office space, Rithm and our affiliates have a need for 100,000 of new space. It's very, very difficult to find space and average rents are well above the $85 per foot that I quoted in most markets for a quality office space. During the quarter, Paramount Group released their earnings last night and I believe there's a couple other REITs that released earnings. We're seeing some of the highest leasing activity that we've seen and this goes back to the pre-COVID days as it relates to Paramount Group. They have an excellent team of professionals who have been running the company for many, many years. As well as the operations, I believe there's approximately 300 people between corporate and ops.

Speaker #5: It's very , very difficult to find space and average rents are well above the the $85 per foot that I quoted in most markets for for a quality office space during the quarter , Paramount rereleased their earnings last night , and I believe there's a couple other rates that are released .

Speaker #5: Earnings . We're seeing some of the highest leasing activity that we've seen . And this goes back to the pre-COVID days as it relates to Paramount .

Speaker #5: They have an excellent team of professionals who have been running the company for many , many years . And as well as the operations , I believe there's approximately 300 people between corporate and ops .

Speaker #5: We're very excited to work with the team creating what we believe will be a terrific investment return for LPs and shareholders . So as we look forward , our mission is still the same .

Michael Nierenberg: We're very excited to work with the team creating what we believe will be a terrific investment return for our LPs and shareholders. As we look forward, our mission is still the same: put up solid results quarter after quarter, be able to offer more products for our LPs and partners, and take advantage of opportunistic situations to generate outsized returns and grow the company. I'll now refer to our supplement which has been posted online and I'm going to begin on page three. If you look in the upper part of the page, Rithm by the numbers: balance sheet $47 billion. Sculptor Capital Management has $37 billion of AUM, Crestline Investors has $18 billion of AUM, and Paramount Group has a $7 billion portfolio.

Speaker #5: Pull up , put up , solid results , quarter after quarter . Be able to offer more products to our LPs and partners and take advantage of opportunistic situations to generate outsized returns and grow the company .

Speaker #5: I'll now refer to our supplement , which has been posted online , and I'm going to begin on page three . If you look in the upper , upper part of the page rhythm by the numbers balance sheet 47 billion sculptor has 37 billion of AUM .

Speaker #5: Crestline has 18 billion of AUM , and Paramount has a $7 billion portfolio . So when we think about this , we think about it in the context of having a little north of $100 billion in investable assets and between the investment teams and , and that work on our balance sheet as well as putting up great results for our LPs , we're really excited where we sit today and where we're where we're going .

Michael Nierenberg: When we think about this, we think about it in the context of having a little north of $100 billion in investable assets, and between the investment teams that work on our balance sheet, as well as putting up great results for our LPs, we're really excited of where we sit today and where we're going. When you think about Rithm, very few companies have $8.5 billion of permanent capital. We're proud of that. We've grown this company in the public markets. When we began this company back in 2013 at Fortress, the average investment team or the average age of the investment team, not age, but been working in the investment business, it's been 31 years. When you look at the bottom part of the, you can see all the portfolio companies. Newrez, again, we're one of the top five mortgage companies in the U.S.

Speaker #5: When you think about rhythm , very few companies have $8.5 billion of permanent capital . We're proud of that . We've grown this company in the public markets .

Speaker #5: When we began this company back in 2013 , at fortress , the average investment team or the average age of the investment team , not age , but been to been working in the investment business has been 31 years .

Speaker #5: When you look at the bottom part of the report, you can see all the portfolio companies anew. We're one of the top five mortgage companies in the U.S.

Speaker #5: Sculptor has been around for 30 plus years . Great track record . The real estate team is just coming off a very successful capital raise , raising north of 4 billion for their for their business , their brand is second to none in the real estate business .

Michael Nierenberg: Sculptor has been around for 30 plus years. Great track record. The real estate team is just coming off a very successful capital raise, raising north of $4 billion for their business. Their brand is second to none in the real estate business. Crestline, super excited to work together and help support that organization. Paramount, I mentioned on the real estate side. Genesis Capital, just to give you on that one, we bought that company from Goldman Sachs in 2022. At that time it was doing $1.8 billion of production. This year I think we're going to, we're going to either approach or do north of $5 billion of production and EBITDA numbers have gone from $40 million to $120 million this year expected. Then we have Rithm Property Trust, which was the broken REIT we took over last year, which was known as Great Ajax.

Speaker #5: Crestline super excited to work together and and and help support that organization . Paramount I mentioned on the on the real estate side Genesis capital , just to give you a on that one , we bought that company from Goldman Sachs in 2022 .

Speaker #5: At that time , it was doing 1,000,000,008 of production . This year , I think we're going to we're going to either approach or do north of 5 billion in production and EBITDA numbers have gone from 40 odd million dollars to 120 this year , expected .

Speaker #5: And then we have Rithm Property Trust, which was the broken REIT we took over last year, which was known as Great Ajax.

Speaker #5: We're still trying to figure out a way , quite frankly , to grow that and put the right assets there . As we look at financial highlights on page four , a really good quarter and it's solid .

Michael Nierenberg: We're still trying to figure out a way, quite frankly, to grow that and put the right assets there. As we look at financial highlights on page four, a really good quarter and it's solid. All of our business lines contributing here. Earnings available for distribution $0.54 per diluted share. This is the 24th consecutive quarter where EAD was greater than our dividends paid. GAAP net income $193.7 million or $0.35 per diluted share for return on equity of 11%. Keep in mind that includes all the mark to market stuff. Earnings available for distribution again, $297 million, $0.54 per diluted share or 18% return on equity. Book value, we closed the quarter at $12.83, which is $7.1 billion. Dividend $0.25 and as I pointed out before, cash and liquidity on balance sheet $2.2 billion.

Speaker #5: You know , all of our business lines contributed contributing here . Our earnings available for distribution $0.54 per diluted share . This is the 24th consecutive quarter where it was greater than our dividends paid .

Speaker #5: GAAP net income one 93.7 or $0.35 per diluted share for return on equity of 11% . Keep in mind that includes all the mark to market stuff .

Speaker #5: Earnings available for distribution again: $297,000,000.54 per diluted share, or an 18% return on equity book value. We closed the quarter at $12.83, which is $7.1 billion.

Speaker #5: Dividend: $0.25. As I pointed out before, cash and liquidity on the balance sheet is $2.2 billion. As you look at page five of the quarter and review once again, we demonstrated steady growth year over year in all of our segments during the quarter.

Michael Nierenberg: As you look at page five, quarter in review, once again, we demonstrated steady growth year over year in all of our segments during the quarter. As I mentioned earlier, we entered into a definitive agreement to acquire Crestline on September 3. We're hoping that deal closes on December 1. We entered into a definitive agreement to acquire Paramount on September 17. That'll go out for shareholder vote and we're hopeful that closes in mid December. These acquisitions continue, as I pointed out before, to expand the product offerings that we have too. You know, when we sit down with an LP, we have a larger suite of products because LPs want fewer managers. Now with between Sculptor, Rithm, Crestline and some of the real estate stuff we're doing, we have a large amount of products that we could offer to our different clients.

Speaker #5: As I as I mentioned earlier , we entered into a definitive agreement to acquire Crestline on September 3rd . We're hoping that deal closes on December 1st .

Speaker #5: We entered into a definitive agreement to acquire Paramount on September 17th . That'll go out for shareholder vote , and we're hopeful that closes in in mid-December .

Speaker #5: These acquisitions continue . As I pointed out before , to expand the product offerings that we have to , you know , when we sit down with an LP , we have a larger suite of products because LPs want fewer managers .

Speaker #5: And now with between sculptor , rhythm , Crestline and some of the real estate stuff we're doing , we have a large amount of products that we could offer to our different clients .

Speaker #5: Fundraising across the platform . We continue to work hard to build that . During the quarter . During in Q4 , we expect to close our first evergreen ABF fund on a leading wealth management platform .

Michael Nierenberg: Fundraising across the platform, we continue to work hard to build that during the quarter. In Q4, we expect to close our first evergreen ABF fund on a leading wealth management platform. When you look at inflows, Sculptor continues to see some good inflows into their business. Bottom part of the page, Genesis Capital during the quarter originated $1.2 billion of loans. That's a 60% increase year over year. We saw 71 new sponsors. I would say on that company, credit first is the mantra. It's not again just to grow, but credit first really matters. The mortgage company, Baron will take us through the mortgage company, but Baron and the team continue to do a great job there. You know, as the world changes and we think about AI and innovation, we're doing all we can to stay ahead of that.

Speaker #5: And then when you look at inflows, Sculptor continues to see some good inflows into their business. The bottom part of the page shows that Genesis Capital, during the quarter, originated $1.2 billion of loans.

Speaker #5: That's a 60% increase year over year . We saw 70 , 71 new new sponsors and what I would say on that company credit first is the mantra it's not again , just to grow , but credit first really matters .

Speaker #5: The mortgage company Baron will take us through the mortgage company. But Baron and the team continue to do a great job there.

Speaker #5: And , you know , as as the world changes and we think about AI and innovation , we're doing all we can to stay ahead of that .

Speaker #5: And then on the investment portfolio during the quarter , we agreed on a forward flow to acquire up to $1 billion in home improvement loans .

Michael Nierenberg: On the investment portfolio during the quarter, we agreed on a forward flow to acquire up to $1 billion in home improvement loans. That's from Upgrade. We did a securitization for a little under $500 million on non-agency and we invested $2.6 billion non-agency loans and residential transitional loans. That's through our Genesis brand. When you look at the, hello, when you look, I'm on page six now. When you look at the Rithm and A update, what we wanted to do is put a page in here so you could have a sense for a liquidity walk. As I mentioned, cash and liquidity as of the end of Q3 is $2.2 billion here. It shows. What are we showing here? One point. Sorry, why don't you take us through?

Speaker #5: That's from upgrade . We did a securitization for a little under 500 million on Non-qm , and we invested $2.6 billion in Non-qm loans and residential loans , and that's through our Genesis brand .

Speaker #5: When you look at the hello . When you look , I'm on page six . Now , when you look at the our M&A update , what we wanted to do is put a page in here so you could have a sense for our liquidity walk .

Speaker #5: As I mentioned , cash and liquidity as of the end of Q3 is $2.2 billion . Here . It shows . What are we showing here ?

Speaker #5: One point sorry , why don't you take us through ?

Speaker #6: Sure . So at the end of the quarter , we ended with cash and cash equivalents . On balance sheet of 1.6 billion .

Emma Poller: Sure.

Nick Santoro: At the end of the quarter, we ended with cash and cash equivalents on balance sheet of $1.6 billion. Rolling it forward, we have the Crestline acquisition and the Paramount acquisition. The amounts shown here are the expected cash outlays or uses at close, net of excess cash on the respective balance sheets of both Crestline and Paramount. We have our use of cash, which comes from our source of cash, which comes from drawing down on our financing facilities. The expectation is at close we will have approximately $1 billion of financing available to us, bringing us down to $1.3 billion of cash and cash equivalents post both the Crestline and Paramount transactions. That $1.2 billion is well north of our regulatory requirements as well as working capital and what we hold for margin requirements.

Speaker #6: Then just rolling it forward . We have the Crestline acquisition and the Paramount acquisition . The amounts shown here are the expected cash outlays or uses at close net of excess cash on the respective balance sheets of both Crestline and Paramount .

Speaker #6: Then we have our use of cash , which comes from our source of cash , which comes from drawing down on our financing facilities .

Speaker #6: The expectation is that close our we will have approximately 1 billion of financing available to us , bringing us down to 1.3 billion of cash and cash equivalents post both the Crestline and Paramount transactions .

Speaker #6: And that 1.2 billion is well north of our regulatory requirements , as well as working capital . And what we hold for margin requirements .

Speaker #5: Thanks , Nick . On page seven , as we look at the , you know , again , this is something that we talk about quarter after quarter .

Michael Nierenberg: Thanks, Nick. On page seven, as we look at the, you know, again, this is something that we talk about quarter after quarter, the valuation of our company. We try to show the sum of the parts. You know, when you look to the top part of the page, you know, Rithm gets valued similar to mortgage REIT peers. We think there's a huge amount of upside for us to be able to unlock value that is going to be driven by our asset management business as well as by the mortgage company. If you look at most mortgage companies today, or if you look at, you know, what I would call our peer group, they trade anywhere from 1.5 to 3 times. Right now, Rithm as a public company is trading, call it something around upper 0.8 to 0.9 times.

Speaker #5: The valuation of our of our company . We try to show that some of the parts , you know , when you look to the top part of the page , you know , rhythm gets valued similar to mortgage rate peers .

Speaker #5: We think there's a huge amount of upside for us to be able to unlock value that is going to be driven by our asset management business , as well as by the mortgage company .

Speaker #5: If you look at most mortgage companies today , or if you look at , you know , what I would call our peer group , they trade anywhere from one and a half to three times right now .

Speaker #5: Rhythm as a public company is trading , call it something around . You know , upper point 8 to 0.9 times . If you think about the mortgage company getting valued properly , you think about the asset management business .

Michael Nierenberg: If you think about the mortgage company getting valued properly, you think about the asset management business, even trading at 10 times. The following slide on page eight will show you a range of outcomes which we believe we will achieve over time of something between $16 and $23 as we compare ourselves either to different asset management firms or when we look at the valuation of our mortgage company and our Genesis business. With that, I'm going to now flip to page 10 which is the so-called power of our platform. As we pointed out before, a little north of $100 billion in assets. You can see all the different product offerings that we have right now to show out to our LPs and clients in corporate credit. There's really nothing more that we need when we look at corporate credit.

Speaker #5: Even trading at ten times the following slide on page eight will show you a range of outcomes, which we believe we will achieve over time of something between $16 and $23.

Speaker #5: As we compare ourselves to different asset management firms , or when we look at the valuation of our mortgage company and our Genesis business .

Speaker #5: With that , I'm going to now flip to page ten , which is the so-called power of our platform . As we pointed out before , a little north of $100 billion in assets , you can see all the different product offerings that we have right now to show out to our LPs and clients and corporate credit .

Speaker #5: There's really nothing more that we need when we look at corporate credit. We will be exploring, over time, the energy space. Obviously, it is a very important space right now. There's nothing for us to do there at Sculptor.

Michael Nierenberg: We will be exploring over time the energy space, obviously very important space. Right now, there's nothing for us to do there at Sculptor. There's the Multi Strat Fund. Our real estate business continues to grow and ABF is something that is near and dear to our heart. That's something that we think is going to be extremely scalable for us as an organization across all of our business lines. As I mentioned earlier, we expect to close one of our first ABF funds here in the fourth quarter and that's on one of the large wealth platforms. We have a couple other things that we're working there. Page 11. Crestline just gives you a quick snapshot of that business again. $18 billion of AUM acquired in September, was founded in 1997, headquartered in Fort Worth, offices in New York, Toronto, London, and Tokyo. Really great brand.

Speaker #5: There's the multi fund or real estate business continues to grow and ABF is something that is near and dear to our heart . And that's something that we think is going to be extremely scalable for us as an organization across all of our lines .

Speaker #5: As I mentioned earlier , we expect to close one of our first ABF funds here in the in the fourth quarter , and that's on one of the large wealth platforms .

Speaker #5: And then we have a couple other things that we're working on there . Page 11 . Crestline just gives you a quick snapshot of of of of that business .

Speaker #5: Again , 18 billion of AUM acquired in in in September was founded in 97 , headquartered in Fort Worth offices in New York , Toronto , London and Tokyo .

Speaker #5: Really great brand . The team there led by business job . You know , they're they have a great nav lending business , a great direct lending business .

Michael Nierenberg: The team there, led by Doug Braddon and Keith Williams, do a fabulous job. You know, they have a great NAV lending business, a great direct lending business. They're really good in the credit side. We think from a firm standpoint on the capability between Crestline, Sculptor, Rithm, you know, the DNA of the firm and what we have to offer should put us really in a very, very good position with our LPs. From an employee standpoint, there's 175 employees. Average experience of the management team is 20 plus years. There's 700 plus investors across all the strategies. I'm going to page 12, just gives you a couple snapshot on the different funds that we have to offer or that Crestline has to offer, the investment professionals associated with them. The thing I mentioned in my opening remarks, we are now in the insurance and reinsurance business.

Speaker #5: They're really good in the credit side . And we think from a firm standpoint on the capability between Crestline , sculptor , Rhythm , you know , the DNA of the firm and what we have to offer should put us really in a very , very good position with our LPs from an employee standpoint , there's 175 employees , average experience of the management team is 20 plus years , and there's 700 plus investors across all the strategies .

Speaker #5: I'm going to page 12, which gives you a couple snapshots of the different funds that Crestline has to offer or that Crestline has to offer the investment professionals associated with them.

Speaker #5: You know , the the thing I meant , I mentioned in my opening remarks , we are now in the insurance and reinsurance business .

Speaker #5: That team is doing great in real estate. Guys, guys and gals recently raised north of $4 billion in their latest fund.

Speaker #5: a business that we intend to grow over time . Obviously , very , very competitive . But now that we have a licensed , licensed entity , we're super excited about where we could go with that .

Michael Nierenberg: That is a business that we intend to grow over time. Obviously very, very competitive. Now that we have a licensed entity, we're super excited about where we could go with that. Page 13, Sculptor. This is her snapshot that we put in. Each quarter results have been great. Team is doing great. Real estate guys and gals recently raised north of $4 billion in their latest fund. Very well received brand there in the markets with again great results and leading with performance first rather than just AUM growth. Page 15, we talk about the Paramount deal. The rationale for us here is pretty simple. One is I think we're really good at developing a thesis or a theory around an investment strategy in a dislocated market.

Speaker #5: Very well . Received brand . There in the markets with with again great results and leading with performance first rather than just AUM growth page 15 .

Speaker #5: We talk about the Paramount deal , the rationale for us here is is pretty simple . One is I think we're really good at at developing a thesis or a theory around an investment strategy in a dislocated market .

Speaker #5: If we start with that , then when you have a board that announces a process to to sell a company that usually the way that we believe or we think about it , it creates an opportunity for us to have a hard look at that company .

Michael Nierenberg: If we start with that, when you have a board that announces a process to sell a company, that usually the way that we believe or we think about it, it creates an opportunity for us to have a hard look at that company. When you look at the job that the Paramount team has done and the portfolio of assets that they have assembled, our belief is, you know, the so-called return to office. You can actually poke holes at that a little bit because when you look at New York, it's 90+% leased up. You could say, okay, that office. New York has already returned to office. I mentioned here that between Rithm and our affiliates we need 100,000 ft. It's really, really hard to find good office at any kind of what I would call reasonable value. We think about that.

Speaker #5: When you look at the job that the Paramount team has done and the portfolio of assets that that they have assembled or belief is , you know , the so-called return to office and you can actually poke holes at that a little bit , because when you look at New York , it's 90 plus percent leased up .

Speaker #5: So you could say , okay , that office New York is already returned to office . I mentioned here that between rhythm and our affiliates , we need 100,000ft .

Speaker #5: It's really , really hard to find good office at at any kind of what I would call reasonable . Reasonable value . So we think about that San Fran is is in the middle of the so-called AI boom .

Michael Nierenberg: San Francisco is in the middle of the so-called AI boom. You're seeing you have a new mayor there, you have a lot of folks coming back to the office. That portfolio is about low 70s. From a lease up perspective, we think we're going to be able to put in some amenities, put in some TI dollars, and we're going to see some really good lease ups there. We're seeing that now across all the leasing activity. When you look at San Francisco, the demand for tenants right now is roughly 7.8 million square feet, which is the highest ever that we know of. Really excited about this.

Speaker #5: You're seeing . You have you have a new mayor there . You have a lot of folks coming back to the office that portfolio is about low 70s from a lease up perspective .

Speaker #5: We think we're going to be able to , you know , put in some amenities , put in some T dollars , and we're going to see some really good lease ups there .

Speaker #5: And we're seeing that now across across all of our all the all the leasing activity . When you look at San Francisco , the demand for tenants right now is roughly seven point 8,000,000ft² , which is the highest ever .

Speaker #5: You know , that that we know of . So really excited about this buying assets that we think are attractive or acquiring a company and add an attractive value with great assets , then being able to raise third party capital around that , around that and grow our asset management business is really where we want to go with this .

Michael Nierenberg: Buying assets that we think attract or acquiring a company at an attractive value with great assets, then being able to raise third party capital around that and grow our asset management business is really where we want to go with this. Page 16, just a snapshot of the balance sheet pro forma after we do these transactions. You can have a look at that. I'm not going to spend time on that again. That's on page 16. Now I'll just touch base on Genesis and then I'll turn it over to Baron, who will talk about Newrez. On Genesis, as I mentioned, $1.2 billion, a record third quarter for the business. New originations yielding roughly 10% at funding, 71 new sponsors. When you look at the company year over year, our outstanding commitments have grown by 51% quarter over year over year.

Speaker #5: Page 16 just snapshot of the balance sheet proforma . After we do these transactions , you can have a look at that . I'm not going to spend time on that .

Speaker #5: Again . That's on page 16 . And now what this base on Genesis . And then I'll turn it over to Baron who will talk about new rates on Genesis .

Speaker #5: As I mentioned , 1.2 billion , a record third quarter for the business . New originations yielding roughly 10% at funding , 71 new sponsors .

Speaker #5: When you look at the company year over year , our outstanding commitments have grown by 51% quarter over year over year . In the third quarter , funded volume , up 60% , sponsored growth up a little less than 50% , and from a delinquency perspective , as I mentioned earlier , credit first total portfolio as only 4% that are 60 plus days .

Michael Nierenberg: In the third quarter, funded volume up 60%, sponsor growth up a little less than 50%. From a delinquency perspective, as I mentioned earlier, credit-first total portfolio has only 4% debt or 60 plus days. Just keep in mind we do service our own assets. I think that is a huge edge, whether it be an asset-backed finance or anything else that we do. For the most part there, we're able to control an outcome and work with borrowers where we have some brand recognition. When you look at page 19, we just talk about a differentiated model versus so-called other peers in the business. Between construction, bridge, and renovation, the business is led by Clint Arrowsmith, and Clint is, you know, his background is really a bank credit guy. Clint and Joe and the team have done a great job there. Real excited about where we sit.

Speaker #5: Just keep in mind we do service our own assets . I think that is a huge edge , whether it be an ABF or anything else that we do and for the most part , they're we're able to control an outcome and work with borrowers where we have some brand recognition .

Speaker #5: When you look at page 19 , we just talk about a differentiated model versus so-called other peers in the business construction , bridge and renovation .

Speaker #5: The business is led by Clint Aerosmith and Clint is , you know , his background is really a bank credit guy . And he's and Clint and Joe and the team have done a great job there .

Speaker #5: So real excited about where we sit . I'm going to turn it over to Baron . Now who's going to talk about the mortgage company .

Michael Nierenberg: I'm going to turn it over to Baron now, who's going to talk about the mortgage company, and then we'll open it up for Q&A.

Speaker #5: And then and then we'll open it up for Q&A .

Speaker #7: Okay .

Baron Silverstein: Okay, thank you, Michael. Good morning to everybody. Just turning to slide 21. Another great quarter for our platform as we execute on our 2025 growth strategy. Significant gains in recapture non-agency originations, expansion of our client franchise, and as Michael mentioned, exciting market-leading developments in our RESI AI stack. Our third quarter 2025 pre-tax income excluding mark to market was approximately $295 million, which is up 7% quarter over quarter and 20% year over year, and delivered a 20% ROE for the quarter, continuing our steady performance. These results continue to show the power of our platform and our ability to drive consistent earnings. With the results-first ethos on slide 22, we can also continue to deliver growth through our differentiated multichannel origination strategy that allows us to use capital efficiently and maximize our returns.

Speaker #5: Thank you Michael , good morning .

Speaker #7: To everybody, just turning to slide 21. Another great quarter for our platform as we execute on our 2025 growth strategy. Significant gains in recapture non-agency originations, and expansion of our client franchise.

Speaker #7: And as Michael mentioned , exciting market leading developments in our resi AI stack . Our third quarter 25 pre-tax income , excluding mark to market , was approximately 295 million , which is up 7% quarter over quarter and 20% year over year .

Speaker #7: And delivered a 20% ROE for the quarter . Continuing our steady performance , these results continue to show the power of our platform and our ability to drive consistent earnings with the results first ethos on slide 22 , we can also continue to deliver growth through our differentiated multichannel origination strategy that allows us to use capital efficiency efficiently and maximize our returns .

Speaker #7: The table on the left shows our direct origination production up 32% year over year , and with a focus on supporting our homeowners and recapture is outperforming the industry in our correspondent channel , we were able to increase production and materially improve margins .

Baron Silverstein: The table on the left shows our direct origination production up 32% year over year, and with a focus on supporting our homeowners and recapture, is outperforming the industry. In our correspondent channel, we were able to increase production and materially improve margins quarter over quarter from 43 bps to 53 bps through our co-issue MSR acquisition strategy, and our product expansion fueled growth in non-agency assets, which are forecasted to be up approximately 120% year over year. Moving to slide 24 and with the recent drop in rates, our origination business finished the quarter with our biggest month in lock volume since early 2022 and has already surpassed this month in October. Even with increased production, our technology is driving increased underwriting capacity and improved turn times on margins.

Speaker #7: Quarter over quarter from 43 basis points to 53 basis points through our MSR acquisition strategy and our product expansion fueled growth in Non-agency assets , which are forecasted to be up approximately 120% year over year .

Speaker #7: Moving to slide 24 . And with the recent drop in rates , our origination business finished the quarter with our biggest month in lock volumes since early 2022 .

Speaker #7: And is already surpassed this month . In October . But even with increased production , our technology is driving increased underwriting capacity and improved turn times on margins .

Speaker #7: Our weighted average margins dropped to 114 basis points , which is due to channel mix and a significant increase in government streamlined refinances that have a lower margin .

Baron Silverstein: Our weighted average margins dropped to 114 bps, which is due to channel mix and a significant increase in government streamlined refinances that have a lower margin. While our market competition continues to drive margin pressures, our disciplined focus remains on profitable growth with an eye for market opportunities. As Michael said, performance first, lead with results. Turning to slide 24, we continue to deepen our connection to our four plus million customers. With digital and brand investments driving our momentum and recapture, we have seen wins in increased digital application leads, better conversions through our Resi Chat, and our newest tool, Resi Assist, powering loan officer call automation and coaching. Customer retention remains a top growth strategy for Newrez and we're committed to delivering exceptional customer experience and a broad suite of products that differentiate our platform versus our competition.

Speaker #7: And while our market competition continues to drive margin pressures , are disciplined , focus remains on profitable growth , with an eye for market opportunities .

Speaker #7: As Michael said , performance first lead with results . Turning to slide 24 . We continue to deepen our connection to our four plus million customers with digital and brand investments driving our momentum in recapture .

Speaker #7: We have seen wins in increased digital application leads better conversions through our chat and our newest tool , Resi Assist , powering Loan Officer call automation and coaching customer retention remains a top growth strategy for new rates , and we're committed to delivering exceptional customer experience and a broad suite of products that differentiate our platform versus our competition .

Speaker #7: On slide 25, our servicing business continues to perform well, with $260 million of pre-tax income, which is up 11% year over year.

Baron Silverstein: On slide 25, our servicing business continues to perform well with $260 million of pretax income, which is up 11% year over year. Our special servicing platform is the best in the business, and we continue to gain market share as shown by increases in our third-party UPB, which is up 4%. We're also excited about a new partnership with Wells Fargo, which validates our non-agency servicing leadership in the industry. Performance across the servicing platform is also driven by our operational efficiency, and our expansion of our Resi AI platform continues to deliver cost leadership at a fully loaded $140 cost per loan. I continue to believe our business is as best positioned as it has ever been, and I look forward to sharing the next chapter of the Newrez growth story with all of you. Thank you. Back to you, Michael.

Speaker #7: Our special servicing platform is the best in the business , and we continue to gain market share , as shown by increases in our third party UPB , which is 4% .

Speaker #7: We're also excited about a new partnership with Wells Fargo , which validates our Non-agency servicing leadership in the industry . Performance across the servicing platform is also driven by our operational efficiency and our expansion of our resi platform continues to deliver cost leadership at a fully loaded $140 cost per loan .

Speaker #7: I continue to believe our business is as best positioned as it has ever been , and I look forward to sharing the next chapter of the new , new growth story with all of you .

Speaker #7: Thank you. Back to you, Michael.

Speaker #5: Thanks , Baron . Just real quick on page 27 . Then we'll open up for Q&A . You know , when you look at the investment business and the investment portfolio , obviously we always have a lot of things going on here at Rhythm during the quarter .

Michael Nierenberg: Thanks, Baron. Just real quick on page 27, then we'll open up for Q&A. You know, when you look at the investment business and the investment portfolio, obviously we always have a lot of things going on here at Rithm during the quarter. As I mentioned earlier, you know, we put out, we did about $2.6 billion in investing in non-QM loans and RRTL loans, these two segments. You know, when you think about the so-called ABF world and whether it be us marketing ABF funds and other folks marketing ABF funds, these are two of the hottest products where what LPs want to get access to. The fact that we could actually manufacture these products, we service these products, and when you look at the overall yields and returns on these assets, is an area for us that we believe we're going to continue to grow.

Speaker #5: As I mentioned earlier , you know , we put out we did about 2.6 billion in investing in Non-qm loans and auto loans .

Speaker #5: These two segments , you know , when you when you think about the so-called ABF world and whether it , you know , whether it be US marketing ABF funds and other folks marketing ABF funds , these are two of the hottest products where LP , what LPs want to get access to the fact that we could actually manufacture these products , we service these products .

Speaker #5: And when you look at the overall yields and returns on these assets , is an area for us that we believe we're going to continue to grow .

Speaker #5: So I point that out from the Genesis side . I pointed out from the new reg side , but overall , you know , investment portfolio , very good quarter firm overall .

Michael Nierenberg: I point that out from the Genesis side, I pointed out from the Newrez side. Overall investment portfolio, very good quarter. Firm overall had a really good quarter. With that, I'll turn it back to the operator for Q&A.

Speaker #5: Had a really good quarter . And with that I'll turn it back to the to the operator for Q&A .

Speaker #3: We will begin the question and answer session to ask a question . You may press star then one on your touchtone phone . If you are using a speakerphone , please pick up your handset before pressing the keys .

Operator: We will begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press Star then one on your touchtone phone. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question, please press Star then two. Our first question comes from Crispin Love with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question , please press star and then two .

Speaker #3: Our first question comes from Crispin Love with Piper Sandler . Please go ahead .

Speaker #8: Thank you . Hi . Good morning everyone . Just first , there's been a pretty wide divergence in share price between you and some of the originator .

[Analyst 1]: Thank you. Good morning everyone. First, there's been a pretty wide divergence in share price between you and some of the originator servicer peers out there. Doesn't make a whole ton of sense when you look at the sum-of-the-parts that you lay out. I'm wondering if you could provide an update on the broader strategic vision and what timelines that could be, whether it's a Newrez spin or REIT, anything with the asset manager. Just curious, what's your focus and what are the key hurdles you need to get past to drive some of those changes?

Speaker #8: Servicer peers out there . Doesn't make a whole ton of sense when you look at the some of the parts that you lay out .

Speaker #8: So wondering if you could provide an update on the broader strategic vision and what timelines that could be , whether it's a new respin or anything with the asset manager .

Speaker #8: Just curious , what's your focus ? And then what are the key hurdles you need to get passed to drive some of those changes ?

Speaker #5: Thanks , Crispin . I mean , what I would say in our share price and you know , we say this quarter over quarter , I believe that , you know , fundamentally , when you look at the so-called some of the parts that we are extremely attractive from value standpoint , I think when we announced the Paramount deal and , you know , and we did our Paramount call , I believe the stock traded towards 12.5 bucks .

Michael Nierenberg: Thanks, Crispin. I mean what I would say in our share price, and we say this quarter over quarter, I believe that fundamentally when you look at the so-called sum-of-the-parts, that we are extremely attractive from a value standpoint. I think when we announced the Paramount deal and we did our Paramount call, I believe the stock traded towards $12.50. After that, I think the market thought we were going to come back and we rebooted our ATM, we did a pref offering, and I think the market thought we were going to raise equity. When I look at the stock price today, in around $11, I think it's extremely attractive, but that's just my thoughts, being that we're really clear we're not raising equity around this transaction for these assets. Nick went through the balance sheet, we'll end up with about $1.3 billion of cash and liquidity.

Speaker #5: And then after that , I think the market thought we were going to come back . And you know , we we rebooted our ATM .

Speaker #5: We did a prep offering . And I think the market thought we were going to raise equity . So when I look at the stock price today in , in and around $11 , and I think it's , you know , extremely attractive .

Speaker #5: But that's just my thoughts being that we're really clear , we're not raising equity around around this transaction for these assets . Nick .

Speaker #5: Nick went through the balance sheet will end up with about 1,000,000,003 of cash and liquidity to the extent that we funded both of these on balance sheet , it's likely we will .

Michael Nierenberg: To the extent that we funded both of these on balance sheet, it's likely we will. We're in a ton of conversations. What I would say with LPs, and our asset management business continues to grow, we need to drive more, quite frankly, more FRE through our pipes to get revalued. That's something that we're very focused on. We think that the Paramount deal will help towards that a little bit. I mentioned that we have an ABF fund that will close, most likely have a first close in the fourth quarter here on one of the wealth management platforms, Crestline. The Crestline addition, that will drive more FRE to the platform. Sculptor is doing well. I think all these things are going to help contribute.

Speaker #5: And then we're in a a ton of conversations . What I would say with LPs and our asset management business continues to grow .

Speaker #5: We need to drive more , quite frankly , more free through our pipes to get , you know , revalued . That's something that we're very focused on .

Speaker #5: We think that the Paramount deal will help towards that a little bit . You know , I mentioned that we have an ABF fund that , you know , will close , most likely have a first close in the fourth quarter here on one of the wealth management platforms .

Speaker #5: You know , Crestline , the Crestline edition that will drive more free to the platform . Sculptor is doing well . So I think all these things are going to help contribute .

Speaker #5: As you think about spins , cells , what have you , you know , the mortgage company alone , when you think about it , if there's , what , 5.5 billion of capital and that trades at one and a half to two times , you have 550 million shares , that gets you to kind of a mid to upper teens stock price alone .

Michael Nierenberg: As you think about spins, sells, what have you, the mortgage company alone, when you think about it, if there's, what, $5.5 billion of capital and that trades at 1.5 to 2 times, you have 550 million shares. That gets you to kind of a mid to upper teen stock price alone. Part of our thesis also is as we drive more, as we make more money as an organization, we're in the build mode, and unfortunately you don't get, you don't get credit for the build mode than you do for just saying, okay, the mortgage company, we're going to take it public, it's going to trade at 1.5 to 2 times book, and that's a $17 or $18 stock price. I think we need to grow asset management business. We need to grow FRE.

Speaker #5: So part of our thesis also is as we drive more as we make more money as an organization , we're in the build mode , you know , and unfortunately you don't get you don't get credit for the build mode .

Speaker #5: Than you do for just saying , okay , the mortgage company , we're going to take it public . It's going to trade at one and a half to two times book .

Speaker #5: And that's a 17 or $18 stock price . I think we need to grow asset management business . We need to grow free .

Speaker #5: Once we do that , we can think about spins or taking the mortgage company public . It's something that we think about all the time from a REIT perspective , you know , and I've used this example before .

Michael Nierenberg: Once we do that, we could think about spins or taking the mortgage company public. It's something that we think about all the time from a REIT perspective. You know, and I've used this example before, you know, when you look at, for example, Blackstone, right. They have their C Corp, they've dropped their REIT down below, they have funds, et cetera. We'd like to do something like that, but I think we need to grow a little bit more on the asset management side first. Thus the two acquisitions in the quarter.

Speaker #5: You know , when you look at , you know , for example , Blackstone . Right . They have , you know , their c-corp , they've dropped their REIT down below .

Speaker #5: They have funds etc. . We'd like to do something like that . But I think we need to grow a little bit more on the asset management side .

Speaker #5: First . Thus , the two acquisitions in the quarter .

Speaker #8: Great . Thanks , Michael . And then just on the Paramount transaction , can you just share how much third party capital you've been able to to raise there , or just how conversations have been going ?

[Analyst 1]: Great, thanks, Michael. On the Paramount transaction, can you share how much third party capital you've been able to raise there? Just how conversations have been going. I believe you said originally you'd fund it with $300 to $500 million in cash at the Rithm level and then the rest from co-investor. Curious on progress there. Are you not able to bring in capital until after the closing for the deal? I thought I saw something like that in the presentation. Just curious on an update.

Speaker #8: I believe you said originally you'd fund it with 300 to 500 million in cash at the rhythm level , and then the recent Co-investors .

Speaker #8: So curious on progress there and then , are you not able to bring in capital until after the closing for the deal ? I thought I saw something like that in the presentation , but just curious .

Speaker #8: An update .

Speaker #5: So on on that deal , we went out to say that we'll put in 3 to 500 of our own equity . I think the way that we expect that to be , it'll be roughly , I think it's going to be roughly 300 from rhythm , possibly 50 million from RPT , which is our other externally managed REIT .

Michael Nierenberg: On that deal we went out to say that we'll put in $300 million to $500 million of our own equity. I think the way that we expect that to be, it'll be roughly, I think it's going to be roughly $300 million from Rithm, possibly $50 million from RPT, which is our other externally managed REIT. The other, call it $950 million or $1 billion, were raised from third parties. We can raise all that money prior to close depending upon how much economics we want to give away beforehand. It's just that simple. The money's there. We've had a number of conversations with folks that want to give us the money. Now what we're trying to do is really build our asset management business.

Speaker #5: The other 950 or billion dollars were raised from third parties . We can raise all that money prior to close , depending upon how much economics we want to give away beforehand .

Speaker #5: I mean , it's just that simple . The money's there . We've had a number of conversations with folks that want to give us the money .

Speaker #5: Now , what we're trying to do is really build our asset management business . We did set up from a liquidity standpoint prior to this , prior to this acquisition , and prior to Crestline , to make sure that there is enough cash and liquidity on balance sheet .

Michael Nierenberg: We did set up from a liquidity standpoint prior to this acquisition and prior to Crestline to make sure that there is enough cash and liquidity on balance sheet. Just to be clear, if we want to fund this thing all with third parties now, we can do that. It's just a question of what do the economics look like for Rithm and our shareholders.

Speaker #5: But just to be clear , if we want to fund this thing all with third parties now , we can do that . It's just a question of what are the economics look like for rhythm and our shareholders .

Speaker #8: Great . Thanks . I appreciate you taking my questions .

[Analyst 1]: Great. Thanks, Michael. Appreciate you taking my questions.

Speaker #9: Crispin .

Speaker #3: And the next question comes from Boz George with KBW. Please go ahead.

Operator: The next question comes from Bose George with KBW. Please go ahead.

Speaker #10: Hey , guys . Good morning . Actually , a question on the the Ginnie Mae streamlined Refis , where you noted that took the gain on sale margin down .

Bose George: Hey guys.

Michael Nierenberg: Good morning.

Bose George: Actually, a question on the Ginnie Mae streamline refis where you noted that took the gain on sale margin down. Are those loans just cheaper to produce as well? Just so the economics are similar. It's just that the top line gain on sale margin is different.

Speaker #10: Are those loans just cheaper to produce as well ? Just so the economics are are similar . It's just that the top line gain on sale margin is different .

Speaker #7: Yeah . Yes . The answer to that is yes . They're definitely cheaper to produce and that's the that's the best way . They're also highly competitive as well .

Baron Silverstein: Yes, the answer to that is yes, they're definitely cheaper to produce and that's the best way. They're also highly competitive as well, but they're cheaper to produce.

Speaker #7: But they're cheaper to produce .

Speaker #10: Okay great . And then actually switching to RPT , you know given where that's trading , can you just discuss some of the options there for potentially growing that business .

Bose George: Okay, great. Actually, switching to Rithm Capital Corp., given where that's trading, can you just discuss some of the options there for potentially growing that business? Could we see sort of an acquisition or a merger? Just curious what kinds of things you're thinking about there.

Speaker #10: Could we see sort of an acquisition or a merger ? Yeah . Just curious what kinds of things you're thinking about there .

Speaker #5: So RPT . We have earnings tomorrow . So I mean here's the way we think about it . It's it's a it's a capital vehicle .

Michael Nierenberg: In Rithm, we have earnings tomorrow. Here's the way we think about it. It's a capital vehicle. The stock, again, trades extremely poorly. While saying that, we got to give investors a reason to want to own the equity, is what I would say. When we look at this company, we are going to try to grow it. We're looking at direct lending options and things like that. To the extent that we don't, at some point we'll likely tender for the shares and just clean up the vehicle. I think for now we want to give it a good go. This is how BXMT was grown. This is how we've grown things during our Fortress days. To the extent that we can't grow it, because for whatever reasons, we'll likely tender for the shares.

Speaker #5: The stock is again its trades extremely . You know trades poorly . While saying that we got to give investors a reason to to want to own the equity is what I would say .

Speaker #5: So when we look at this company , we are going to try to grow it . You know , we're looking at direct lending options and things like that .

Speaker #5: To the extent that we don't at some point we'll likely tender for the shares and just clean up the vehicle . I think for now we want to give it a good go .

Speaker #5: This is how M.T . Was grown . This is how we've grown things , you know , during our fortress days . But to the extent that we can grow it , because for whatever reasons , we'll we'll likely tender for the shares .

Speaker #10: Okay , great . And actually , just going back to the earlier question , just on strategic actions , the , you know , a partial listing of new raises as opposed to a spin , but just a small whatever , 15 or percent listing for a mark to market .

Bose George: Okay, great. Actually, just going back to the earlier question on strategic actions, a partial listing of Newrez LLC as opposed to a spin, but just a small, whatever, 15% listing for a mark to market. Given that you could do that sooner versus the other strategic actions, which probably take time to sort of build out the AUM more, is that something worth sort of reconsidering or revisiting?

Speaker #10: Just given that you could do that sooner versus the other strategic actions which probably take time to sort of build out the AUM more .

Speaker #10: I mean , is that something , worth sort of reconsidering or revisiting ?

Speaker #5: Yes . We explore that every day . So that is something that we are exploring .

Michael Nierenberg: Yes, we explore that every day. That is something that we are exploring.

Speaker #10: Okay . Great . Thanks .

Bose George: Okay, great. Thanks.

Speaker #5: Thanks both .

Michael Nierenberg: Thanks, Bose.

Speaker #3: And the next question comes from Eric Hagan with Btig . Please go ahead .

Operator: The next question comes from Eric Hagen with BTIG. Please go ahead.

Speaker #11: Hey , thanks . Good morning . Fleshing out some of this other conversation here . We're looking at slide six again is the expectation to raise the third party capital for Paramount and pay down that 1.1 billion that you drew on the financing line .

Eric Hagen: Hey, thanks. Good morning. Fleshing out some of this other conversation here, we're looking at Slide 6 again. Is the expectation to raise the third party capital for Paramount Group and pay down that $1.1 billion that you drew on the financing line, or does this pro forma cash position assume that you've raised the third party capital to fund that?

Speaker #11: Does this proforma cash position assume that you've raised the third party capital to fund that ?

Speaker #5: Yeah . We we will not . I mean , if once we raise the third party , we haven't drawn on the money because the deal hasn't closed yet , you've still got to get shareholder approval .

Michael Nierenberg: Yeah, we will not. I mean, once we raise the third party, we haven't drawn on the money because the deal hasn't closed yet, you still gotta get shareholder approval. Once we do that, once we do close, to the extent that we do draw down, we'll pay that off once we raise the money. There's a ton of money for people that want to be part of this, whether that be LPs or, as I pointed out to Crispin, LPs or, you know, what I would call peers and partners in the business. The question for us is maximizing economics. From a brand standpoint, I would tell you that we're having anywhere from five to 10 conversations minimum a day with LPs.

Speaker #5: Once we do that , once we do close to the extent that we do draw down , we'll , you know , we'll pay that off once we raise the the money .

Speaker #5: The money . There's there's a ton of money for people that want to be part of this , whether that be LPs and , or as I pointed out to Crispin , LPs and or , you know , what I would call peers and partners in the business , it's just , you know , the question for us is , you know , maximizing economics , but from a brand standpoint , I would tell you that we're having anywhere from 5 to 10 conversations , minimum a day with LPs .

Speaker #5: So not only doing the deal and not everybody wants to be in office , quite frankly , because a lot of folks have gotten smoked , you know , going in and , you know , right after Covid or just before Covid , but but the gist of it is , you know , the amount of conversations we're having as an organization with LPs and , you know , and the amount of capital that's out there in real discussions , we've had where we feel really good about where we are on this one .

Michael Nierenberg: Not only doing the deal, and not everybody wants to be in office, quite frankly, because a lot of folks have gotten smoked going in right after COVID or just before COVID. The gist of it is the amount of conversations we're having as an organization with LPs and the amount of capital that's out there and real discussions we've had. We feel really good about where we are on this one.

Speaker #11: Gotcha . That's helpful . Hey , I mean , there's a lot of attention right now on underwriting , even some fraud with these , you know , consumer lenders , regional banks and such .

Eric Hagen: Got you. That's helpful. There's a lot of attention right now on underwriting, even some fraud with these consumer lenders, regional banks and such. Do you see that driving changes in the market? Your entire business effectively is underwriting focused at this point. We wouldn't expect any bad underwriting in your portfolio. Do you see that having a spillover effect in any way to the rest of the market?

Speaker #11: I mean , do you see that driving changes in the market ? I mean , you're your entire business effectively is underwriting focused at this point ?

Speaker #11: I mean , we wouldn't expect any bad underwriting in your portfolio . But do you see that having a spillover effect in any way to the rest of the market ?

Speaker #5: Yeah , I think it's it's something that , you know , when we talk about our ABF funds , it is a question we get asked all the time .

Michael Nierenberg: Yeah, I think it's something that when we talk about our ABF funds, it is a question we get asked all the time. When you look at First Brands or you look at Tricolor, what really happened there? One thing that's different about Rithm versus other folks, we have, what, 10,000 employees across the firm? The mortgage company has, between employees and consultants, probably 10,000 people alone. Quite frankly, you look at Genesis, there's a couple hundred people there. We're underwriting first. We don't just go out and buy pools of assets unless, like I pointed out many times, we have the ability to hopefully control an outcome, and that outcome is driven through our underwriting and servicing business. That makes a big, big difference. While saying that, ABF kind of LPs are, they want to know what happened with First Brands. They want to know what happened with Tricolor.

Speaker #5: You know , when you look at first brands or you look at tricolor , you know what really happened there . You know , one thing that's different about rhythm versus other folks .

Speaker #5: You know , we have what , 10,000 employees across the firm , you know , the mortgage company has between employees and consultants , probably 10,000 people alone , quite frankly .

Speaker #5: You look at Genesis , there's a couple hundred people there . You know , we're underwriting first and we don't just go out and buy pools of assets unless , like I pointed out , you know , many times where we have the ability to hopefully control an outcome and that outcome is driven through our , our underwriting and servicing business .

Speaker #5: And that makes a big , big difference . While saying that , you know , ABF kind of LPs are , you know , they want to know what happened with first brands .

Speaker #5: They want to know what happened with tricolor . Tricolor was classic fraud , right ? They you know , they pledged assets twice .

Michael Nierenberg: Tricolor was classic fraud. They pledged assets twice. You look at First Brands, it's a liquidity issue. I'm sure there's some other stuff that's going on there. For us, underwriting first, we've seen these kind of events happen. I don't think they're systemic, quite frankly, for the broader world or market. We have to keep our eyes and ears open here and lead with underwriting first.

Speaker #5: You know , you look at first brands , it's a liquidity issue . But I'm sure there's some other stuff that's going on there .

Speaker #5: And you know , so but for us underwriting first we've seen of events happen . I don't think there's systemic quite frankly . You know , for the broader world or market .

Speaker #5: But we have to keep our eyes and ears open here and lead with underwriting first .

Speaker #11: Good stuff . One more , if I may . The fall off in interest income from the investment portfolio quarter over quarter looks like it went from 82 million to 52 million .

Eric Hagen: Good stuff. One more, if I may. The falloff in interest income from the investment portfolio, quarter over quarter, looks like it went from $82 million to $52 million.

Speaker #11: What was the driver of that ?

Michael Nierenberg: What was the driver of that, Eric?

Speaker #6: Sure . So , Eric , we held lower agency balances . In addition , we had a a

Nick Santoro: We held lower agency balances. In addition, we had a retrospective adjustment in interest income that was offset in unrealized gains and losses. When you look at that line, you will see the pickup.

Speaker #6: retrospective adjustment in interest these kind income that was offset in unrealized gains losses . So when you look at that line , you will see the pickup .

Speaker #11: Yep . Got you . Guys thank you .

Eric Hagen: Got you guys. Thank you.

Speaker #5: Thanks , Eric .

Michael Nierenberg: Thanks, Eric.

Speaker #3: In the next question comes from Jason Weaver with Jones Trading . Please go ahead .

Operator: The next question comes from Jason Weaver with Jones Trading. Please go ahead.

Speaker #12: Hey good morning . Thanks for taking my question . For the initial ABF fund you're targeting with the wealth management platform . Can you talk about the initial size you're targeting for that , as well as the expected life of that vehicle ?

Baron Silverstein: Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. For the initial ABF fund you're targeting with the wealth management platform, can you.

Michael Nierenberg: Talk about the initial size you're targeting.

Baron Silverstein: For that as well as the expected life of that vehicle?

Speaker #5: I don't I don't think I mean , here's what I would say from an asset . I don't think we can talk about .

Michael Nierenberg: I don't think. I mean, here's what I would say from an asset, I don't think we can talk about, we can't talk about the marketing of the so-called fund. What I would tell you is we do have a couple things that we're working on there. We mentioned that so-called fund. Are we allowed to talk about this? I'm looking at Counsel. Okay, so the size is likely going to be upwards of $500 million. The average duration of something like that, think about the typical products that we produce. I mentioned earlier, non-QM and RTL are kind of in flavor as people like the diversified risk there. Those average cash flows, think of something in the three-year area. I mentioned earlier, and it's not just us, there are a lot of managers like us that are out there with different asset-backed finance (ABF) funds.

Speaker #5: We can't we can't talk about the marketing of the so-called fund . But I would tell you is we do have a couple of things that we're working on .

Speaker #5: There's , you know , we mentioned that so-called fund . Are we allowed to talk about this ? I'm looking at counsel . Okay .

Speaker #5: So the size is likely going to be upwards of 500 . And then and then the average duration on something like that , it's think about the typical products that we produce .

Speaker #5: I mentioned earlier Non-qm and RTL are kind of the the flavor as people like to diversified risk . There . Those average cash flows .

Speaker #5: Think of something in the kind of the three year area and then we , you know , you know , I mentioned earlier and it's not just us , but there's a lot of a lot of managers like us that are out there with different ABF funds .

Speaker #5: And it's , you know , when you think about the product suite there , it could be ABS , it could be mortgage , it could be CLO type , it could be , you know , you'll have aviation , finance , all kinds of different things that can go into these different buckets .

Michael Nierenberg: When you think about the product suite there, it could be ABS, it could be mortgage, it could be CLO type, you could have aviation finance, all kinds of different things that can go into these different buckets.

Speaker #12: All right . Thank you . That's helpful . And then next is it pertains to the dividend . You've been covering for I don't know how long .

Baron Silverstein: All right, thank you, that's helpful. As it pertains to the dividend you've been covering for, I don't know how long, five years, as far back as I can remember, how do you think about the payout policy right now?

Speaker #12: Five years as far back as I can remember . How do you think about the payout policy right now whether you can see it expanding given some possible capital needs for integrating these acquisitions or building more of a buffer against market headwinds .

Michael Nierenberg: Whether you can see it expanding, given.

Baron Silverstein: Some possible capital needs for integrating these acquisitions or building more of a buffer against market headwinds?

Speaker #5: What I would say , you know , from obviously it's a it's a board decision . I would say pretty definitively from from , you know , the team here inside the walls of rhythm that we're not going to raise our dividend .

Michael Nierenberg: What I would say, from, obviously it's a board decision, I would say pretty definitively from the team here inside the walls of Rithm that we're not going to raise our dividend. Quite frankly, if we had our druthers, if you think about it, we're paying out something between, call it $600 million a year. If you reinvested that capital at 15% or 20%, we mentioned the company generated an 18% ROE. If we redeployed the capital there, it's going to be highly accretive from an earnings standpoint and that would enable the stock to grow. I would say definitively there is no desire to increase a dividend at this point. If we could go the other way, we would.

Speaker #5: You know , quite frankly , if we had our druthers , if you think about it , you know , we're paying out something between , you know , call it $600 million a year if you reinvested that capital at a or 20% .

Speaker #5: We mentioned , you know , the company generated an 18% ROE for redeployed the capital . There . It's going to be highly accretive for from an earnings standpoint .

Speaker #5: And that would enable the stock to grow . So I would say definitively there's no no desire to increase the dividend at this point .

Speaker #5: You know , if we can go the other way , we would . .

Speaker #12: All right , I appreciate the color . Thank you .

Baron Silverstein: All right, appreciate the color. Thank you.

Speaker #5: Thank you .

Michael Nierenberg: Thank you.

Speaker #3: And the next question comes from Trevor Cranston with citizens JMP . Please go ahead .

Operator: The next question comes from Trevor Cranston with Citizens JMP. Please go ahead.

Speaker #13: Hi . Thanks . Another question on the valuation of the company . And closing the gap to the , you know , the sum of the parts level .

[Analyst 2]: Great, thanks. Another question on the valuation of the company and closing the gap to the sum-of-the-parts level. Can you talk about how you guys think about share buybacks as a tool to sort of help bridge that gap, or if the focus is really just more so on continuing to grow and increase the revenue streams to get there? Thanks.

Speaker #13: Can you talk about how you guys think about share buybacks as a tool to to sort of help bridge that gap , or if the focus is really just more so on kind of continuing to grow and increase the revenue streams to get there .

Speaker #13: Thanks .

Speaker #5: So share buybacks , you know , people talk about share buybacks , share buybacks I think our our path is going to be continued growth .

Michael Nierenberg: Share buybacks, you know, people talk about share buybacks. I think our path is going to be continued growth as long as we think we could deploy capital at, call it, 15 to 20% returns. I would say while we have all kinds of policies in place, whether they be share buybacks, ATMs, et cetera, based on the two acquisitions, I would assume that we're not going to be doing any share buybacks here. I think the question around a potential IPO of the mortgage company is always something that we wrestle with. At some point, if that's something we do, that would potentially raise a little bit of capital for us. There's no, I would say right now, and this is again my view, we're not going to be doing share buybacks. We're funding a billion-something acquisition on Paramount Group and Crestline Investors.

Speaker #5: As long as we think we can deploy capital at you know , call it 15 to 20% returns . You know I would say while we have all kinds of policies in place , whether they be share buybacks , ATMs , etc.

Speaker #5: , based on the two acquisitions , I would assume that we're not going to be doing any share buybacks here . You know , I think the question around a potential IPO in of the mortgage company is always something that we wrestle with .

Speaker #5: So at some point , you know , if that's something we do that would , you know , potentially raise a little bit of capital for us .

Speaker #5: But you know , there's no I would say right now and this is again , my my view we're not going to be doing share buybacks .

Speaker #5: We're funding , you know , 8 billion something acquisition on Paramount . And Crestline . And as we continue to grow earnings and grow free I think NFC a huge revival of the company .

Michael Nierenberg: As we continue to grow earnings and grow free, I think you're going to see a huge reval of the company. That's what we're all playing for.

Speaker #5: That's where we're all playing for .

Speaker #13: Got it okay . That's helpful . And then on the sculptor business you know you guys have had pretty pretty good year of fundraising I think the number you gave is 4.6 billion so far this year .

[Analyst 2]: Got it. Okay, that's helpful. On the Sculptor Capital Management business, you know you guys had pretty good year of fundraising. I think the number you gave is $4.6 billion so far this year. Can you give us an outlook on kind of how you're thinking about, you know, fundraising heading into 2026, if you think that kind of pace is sustainable and just generally how you think about the organic growth potential of the asset management side over the next year or so. Thanks.

Speaker #13: Can you give us an outlook on kind of how you're thinking about , you know , fundraising heading into 2026 ? If you think that kind of pace is is sustainable and just generally how you think about the organic growth potential of the asset management side over the next year or so , thanks .

Speaker #5: Sure . So when we look at the asset management business , we are going to be making capital investments in people as we continue to grow our what I would call our capital formation strategy group .

Michael Nierenberg: Sure. When we look at the asset management business, we are going to be making capital investments in people as we continue to grow our, what I would call, our capital formation strategy group. There will be some significant investments there. I'm hopeful over the next 60 days we have some big announcements there around some personnel. When you look at the growth, the $4.5 billion or so that Sculptor raised, a large amount of that was in the real estate business. The underlying performance in the credit business, the multi-strat business, continues to be very, very good. You look at Crestline, their performance continues to be very, very good.

Speaker #5: So there'll be some significant investments there . We have , you know , I'm hopeful over the next kind of 60 days , we have some , you big announcements there around some personnel .

Speaker #5: When you look at the growth of 4.5 billion or so , that scope to raise a large amount of that was in the real estate business .

Speaker #5: The underlying performance in like the credit business , the multi . Strap business continues to be very , very good . You look at Crestline , their performance continues to be very , very good .

Speaker #5: You know when you when you look at across our firm and you think about rhythm sculptor Crestline you could assume at some point that the capital formation groups come together and things really start to synergize .

Michael Nierenberg: When you look across our firm and you think about Rithm, Sculptor, Crestline, you could assume at some point that the capital formation groups come together and things really start to synergize and we're able to raise a lot more capital. When I look at a $4.5 billion or $5 billion capital raise for 2025, do I think that's repeatable in 2026? Absolutely. You look at the bigger players and they've done a fabulous job raising tons and tons of capital. There's no reason why we can't surpass the numbers that have been done in 2025.

Speaker #5: And we're able to raise a lot more , more capital . So when I look at , you know , a $4.5 billion or $5 billion capital raise for 25 , do I think that's repeatable in 26 ?

Speaker #5: Absolutely . I mean , you look at the bigger , you know , all players and they've done a fabulous job raising tons and tons of capital .

Speaker #5: There's no reason why we can't surpass the numbers that have been done in 25 .

Speaker #13: Got it . Okay . Appreciate the comments . Thank you .

[Analyst 2]: Got it. Okay. Appreciate the comments. Thank you.

Speaker #9: Thank you .

Michael Nierenberg: Thank you.

Speaker #3: This concludes our question and answer session . I would like to turn the conference back over to Michael Nierenberg for any closing remarks .

Operator: This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Michael Nierenberg for any closing remarks.

Speaker #5: Well , thanks for the thoughtful questions . Thanks for listening to us this morning . You know , as I wrap up again , very excited , where we sit , you know , from a company perspective , things are going what I would say extremely well right now earnings the strength of our earnings continues to be robust , driven by , you know , the businesses that we bought or built to get us here .

Michael Nierenberg: Thank you for the thoughtful questions. Thank you for listening to us this morning. As I wrap up again, very excited where we sit. From a company perspective, things are going what I would say extremely well right now. Earnings, the strength of our earnings, continues to be robust, driven by the businesses that we bought or built to get us here. Those very same businesses are going to enable us to continue to grow. Our platform, obviously, very focused on the asset management business, very focused on getting the proper reval of the company. The mortgage company is something that we always, we look at and say, do we take it public or not?

Speaker #5: Those very same businesses are going to enable us to continue to grow our platform . Obviously very focused on the asset management business , very focused on getting the proper revalue , the company , the mortgage company is something that we always , you know , we look at and say , you know , do we take it public or not ?

Speaker #5: Quite frankly , it's , you know , sometimes it's it's easier not to be in the public markets as you think about , you know , every asset manager talking about going public to private , when you look at assets going even into the wealth channels .

Michael Nierenberg: Quite frankly, sometimes it's easier not to be in the public markets as you think about every asset manager talking about going public to private when you look at assets going even into the wealth channels. Overall, things are clicking on all cylinders here for us and we look forward to updating it throughout the quarter and into next quarter. Thank you again. Have a great weekend.

Speaker #5: But overall , things are clicking on all cylinders here for us , and we look forward to updating you throughout the quarter . And into next quarter .

Speaker #5: So thanks again . Have a great weekend .

Operator: The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.