Q3 2025 Macerich Co Earnings Call
Speaker #2: Ladies and gentlemen , thank you for standing by . Welcome to the third quarter , 2025 Macerich Earnings Conference Call . At this time , all participants are in a listen only mode .
Speaker #2: After the speakers presentation , there will be a question and answer session . To ask a question during this session , you would need to press star one one on your telephone .
Speaker #2: You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised . We do ask to please limit to one question and one follow up .
Speaker #2: And to withdraw your question , please press star one one again . Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded . I would now like to turn the conference over to Alexandra Johnstone , Vice President of finance and Investor Relations .
Speaker #2: Please go ahead .
Speaker #3: Thank you for joining us on our third quarter 2020 earnings call . During this call , we will make certain statements that may be deemed forward looking within the meaning of the safe harbor of the private securities litigation Reform Act of 1995 , including statements regarding projections , plans or future expectations .
Speaker #3: Actual results may differ materially due to a variety of risks and uncertainties set forth in today's earnings results supplemental and our SEC filings .
Speaker #3: Reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures . Are included in a supplemental Filed on Form 8-K with the SEC , which is posted in the Investor section of the website at Macerich .
Speaker #3: Com . Joining us today are Jack Shea , President and Chief Executive Officer . Daniel Swanstrom . Senior Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer .
Speaker #3: And Doug Healy , senior executive vice president of leasing . And with us in the room is Brad Miller , senior vice president of portfolio management .
Speaker #3: With that , I would like to turn the call over to Jack .
Speaker #4: Thank you . Alexandra . We had another great quarter at Macerich . As we've remained ahead of schedule on our path forward plan and well positioned to deliver on our 2020 targets .
Speaker #4: I want to thank everyone at Macerich for their continued contributions to our success . Today I will spend some time on the operational performance Improvement pillar of our path Forward Plan .
Speaker #4: Then I'll have Doug and Dan speak to the state of our portfolio and leasing outlook , as well as the progress on the balance sheet .
Speaker #4: For the last few quarters . I've been talking about the momentum we've built up in our leasing This momentum has driven our confidence in hitting our 2020 targets and pursuing an incremental opportunity , such as the acquisition of Crabtree in June .
Speaker #4: I'll update you on that . Leasing , while also providing some additional specifics that further demonstrate how well we're executing against the plan .
Speaker #4: During the third quarter , we signed one point 5,000,000ft² of new and renewal leases efforts . , which is an 87% increase from Q3 2020 .
Speaker #4: For this brings year to date signed leases in 2025 to 5 point 4,000,000ft² in the total portfolio and 86% increase compared to the same period in 2020 .
Speaker #4: 24 that is well ahead of schedule on leasing volume , and we're executing on target for our market . Net effective rent assumptions used in our five year plan .
Speaker #4: As we've stated on prior calls related to our leasing speedometer, which tracks revenue completion percentage for all new leasing activity in the five-year plan.
Speaker #4: Our initial goal for new lease deals was 70% by year end 2025 . We're currently at 70% today . Our large pipeline of Lois puts us on track for 85% completion target by mid 2026 .
Speaker #4: Turning to the snow pipeline , it has grown from 87 million in August to 99 million as of today , which again has put us on pace to meet or exceed our target of 100 million by year end .
Speaker #4: With the inclusion of Crabtree . We expect a total of 140 million of incremental snow of the remaining 40 million in snow left to achieve , roughly 90% is in our A , B and C rated spaces .
Speaker #4: Another way to look at it is that 68% is in our fortress or fortress potential properties . In our path Forward plan . The strategy around new deals is to improve permanent occupancy , which the will enhance our thriving retail centers .
Speaker #4: We believe these new leases will improve merchandising mix , which improves traffic , generates higher sales and better productivity . This positions our portfolio to drive increased rents in 2028 and beyond .
Speaker #4: Once we have all the work done in a moment , Doug will highlight several of the examples of our recent deals with retailers who are already having a tremendous positive impact on our centers .
Speaker #4: New deals approved by our executive Leasing Committee , which reviews and approves deals on a bi basis , is up 61% from the same time last year and is more than all of the new deals approved in 2024 .
Speaker #4: Affirming the health of the overall retail environment for best in class centers . We are also making tremendous progress on our anchor leasing initiatives .
Speaker #4: We have 30 anchors targeted to open between 2025 and 2028 , of which 25 are committed to sporting goods fashion , entertainment , grocery and other retail uses .
Speaker #4: Releasing these vacant anchors is an important part of our Path Forward plan , as they help with the permanent leasing and their respective wings , improving the merchandising mix and most importantly , driving or driving customer traffic and dwell time .
Speaker #4: As I've said in the past , I'm really excited about what we're doing with House of sport in particular . We have nine committed locations landlord with them .
Speaker #4: Dick's House of sport had their grand opening at freehold in the former Lord and Taylor box this past Friday . This , along with the recent opening of the Freehold Athletic Club and Dave and Buster's in the prior Sears wing , joining Primark , has revitalized this center .
Speaker #4: Dick's has made the rollout of House of sport a critical component of their growth plans , and have publicly stated they are creating the future of retail .
Speaker #4: With this concept . They are quoting incremental traffic to a mall in the mid-teens percentage , one year after a House of sport opens , and that's consistent with what we've analyzed .
Speaker #4: As I said last quarter , leasing momentum . I've described today gave us the confidence to opportunistically pursue Crabtree Mall , which we believe will be a very compelling investment based on the early progress on leasing .
Speaker #4: One of the more important considerations in that acquisition was the opportunity to deploy our operating , leasing and marketing platforms to invigorate leasing momentum and drive permanent occupancy to capture the embedded NOI growth potential .
Speaker #4: I believe our team has more than delivered on that front so far at Crabtree , and we'll have more to share in the coming months .
Speaker #4: As we look ahead, we'll continue to evaluate potential new investment opportunities. That said, we'll remain patient and disciplined in terms of additional external growth.
Speaker #4: We are very focused on leasing , driving operational improvement throughout the portfolio and hitting our deleveraging targets . Doug , why don't you take it from here ?
Speaker #5: Thanks , Jack . Like last quarter in my remarks this afternoon , I'll refer to total portfolio statistics . And where applicable , I'll provide the go forward portfolio statistics as well .
Speaker #5: Portfolio sales at the end of the third quarter were $867 per square foot . That's up almost 4% when compared to the same period For however , when you look at our go forward portfolio sales were actually $905 per square foot .
Speaker #5: Traffic through the third quarter was flat when compared to the same period in 2024 . Occupancy at the end of the third quarter was 93.4% , up 140 basis points from last quarter .
Speaker #5: The go forward portfolio occupancy at the end of the third quarter in 2020 . was 94.3% , which is up 150 basis points from last quarter .
Speaker #5: And a quick update on the forever 21 liquidation , which has been a drag on our occupancy for the past few quarters to date .
Speaker #5: Of the half million square feet that became vacant , we have commitments on 74% of that square footage . And again , with much better brands paying significantly more rent than forever 21 was paying , trailing 12 month leasing spreads .
Speaker #5: As of September 30th , 2025 remained positive at 5.9% , and this now represents 16 consecutive quarters of positive leasing spreads . In the third quarter , we opened 355,000ft² of new stores for a total of 852,000ft² year to date .
Speaker #5: Through September 30th . And after years in the making , we finally opened our 11,000 square foot , square foot Hermes store at Scottsdale Fashion Square .
Speaker #5: Hermes , an iconic brand that is arguably the most sought after luxury retailer in our industry , will join the likes of Dior , Louis Vuitton , Cartier , Saint Laurent , Versace , Prada and Brunello Cucinelli , just to name a few .
Speaker #5: This is our first store in Arizona , with its closest being in Las Vegas . The addition of Hermes now unquestionably makes Scottsdale Fashion Square the primary luxury destination , not only in Scottsdale Market , but also in the entire state of Arizona and at the same time making Scottsdale one of the most important luxury addresses in the United States .
Speaker #5: We also opened a 42,000 square foot level 99 at Tysons Corner . For those not familiar , level 99 is the first of its kind entertainment destination for adults , featuring real world interactive social gaming with over 50 physical and mental challenge rooms already being considered best in class in the entertainment category , this will be level 99 , third location in the United States , behind Natick , Massachusetts and Providence , Rhode Island , with many more slated to open in the next several years , including Walt Disney World in Orlando , Florida .
Speaker #5: Level 99 joins Haidilao Cheesecake Factory , Maggiano's Coastal Flats and Seasons 52 . As we continue to reimagine and merchandise Tyson's East End entertainment wing .
Speaker #5: Turning to our lease expirations as of September 30th , we had commitments on 94% of our 2025 expiring square footage that is expected to renew and not close , with another 5% .
Speaker #5: In the letter of intent stage . In terms of our 2026 expiring square footage , 55% of our expiring square footage , with another 30% in the letter of intent stage .
Speaker #5: So as I mentioned last quarter , we're basically done with 2025 . And in very good shape with our 2026 business . In fact , when looking at our 2026 expirations , we're significantly ahead of where we were at this time last year when we were dealing with our 2025 expirations .
Speaker #5: As Jack alluded to in his earlier remarks , the retailer tenant demand remained strong even despite the noise of politics . Uncertainty in the macroeconomic environment and the pending tariffs .
Speaker #5: And this is not just me telling you this , but rather it's evidenced by retailer activity in our portfolio . Legacy retailers are reinventing themselves and coming up with brand extensions to meet the demands of consumers .
Speaker #5: One of the best examples is gap and how they've adapted their brands and merchandise to once again become one of the most relevant retailers in our industry .
Speaker #5: And as a result , they're open to buys . Have significantly increased . Other examples include American Eagle , which is expanding and opening new stores , and their brand extensions .
Speaker #5: Aerie and offline are doing the same . J.Crew is rolling out their factory concept , as well as Madewell and Levi's is doing the same thing with Beyond Yoga .
Speaker #5: JD sports has caught fire in the US and is on a major rollout as our coach pack . Sun and Abercrombie and Fitch .
Speaker #5: Just just to name a few . And then you have the emerging brands . Many of which are rapidly opening stores to support their online business .
Speaker #5: Examples include pop mart , Rowan on running cider addicted Princess Polly , Brandy Melville , skims and many , many more . And as Jack also mentioned , there's Dick's House of sport , one of the greatest big box concepts in recent history .
Speaker #5: Dick's has reimagined the sporting goods business and will ultimately redefine the entire category . So my point here is this never has the depth and breadth of retailer demand across all categories been what it is today .
Speaker #5: And to me , that speaks not only to the strength of our portfolio , but as importantly , to the health of the class .
Speaker #5: A mall sector across the country . And with that , I'll turn the call over to Dan to go through our third quarter financial results .
Speaker #5: Thanks , Doug , and .
Speaker #6: Good afternoon . I'll start with a review of third quarter financial results . FFO , excluding financing expense in connection with Chandler freehold accrued default interest expense and loss on non-real estate investments was approximately 93 million , or $0.35 per share , during the third quarter of 2025 .
Speaker #6: Similar to the last few quarters , I would like to highlight the following item included in our FFO . Adjusted for the quarter , 7.5 million of interest expense relates to the amortization of debt mark to market resulting from our various JV interest acquisitions .
Speaker #6: As a reminder , this non-cash expense is included in interest expense . Go forward . Portfolio centers NOI excluding lease termination income , increased 1.7% in the third quarter of 2025 compared to the third quarter of 2024 .
Speaker #6: Year to date , the go forward portfolio Centers NOI has increased almost 2% compared to the same period in 2024 . Turning to the balance sheet , we continue to make strong progress on the balance sheet initiatives contained in our path Forward plan .
Speaker #6: We have only one remaining maturing loan in 2025 for approximately 200 million . On our South Plains property , we expect this loan will be in technical default at maturity as we continue discussions with the lender to obtain a potential loan extension .
Speaker #6: We do not have any additional commentary at this time . We're continuing to proactively address our remaining 2026 debt maturities through a combination of potential asset sales , Refinancings loan modifications , or property Givebacks .
Speaker #6: In fact , over the course of the last year , we've we've paid down almost 1 billion of debt that had a 2026 maturity date , including most recently , approximately 350 million of repayments through the combined sales of Lakewood and Atlas Park .
Speaker #6: We currently have approximately 1 billion of liquidity , including 650 million of capacity on our revolving line of credit from a leverage perspective , net debt to EBITDA .
Speaker #6: At the end of the third quarter was 7.76 times , which is a full turn lower than at the outset of the path Forward plan .
Speaker #6: And importantly , we've outlined our strategy to further reduce leverage to the low to mid six times range over the next couple of years .
Speaker #6: During the third quarter of 2025 , we sold 2.8 million shares of common stock for approximately 50 million of net proceeds through the company's ATM program at a weighted average price of $18.03 per share .
Speaker #6: While our recent acquisition of Crabtree Mall is expected to keep the company within its previously stated deleveraging targets under the Path Forward plan , these ATM proceeds bring the Crabtree acquisition closer to being leveraged neutral as it relates to our goal of low to mid six times target leverage .
Speaker #6: We are making substantial progress in executing on planned dispositions as part of the path Forward plan . In July , we closed on the sale of Atlas Park for 72 million .
Speaker #6: We used our 50% portion of the net proceeds from this sale to repay our 50% portion of the $65 million loan on the property that had an effective interest rate of over 9% and a 2026 maturity date in August , we closed on the sale of Lakewood for 332 million , including the assumption by the buyer of the $317 million loan on the property that also had a 2026 maturity date in August .
Speaker #6: We also closed on the sale of Valley Mall for 22 million . This asset was unencumbered . These sales transactions are consistent with our stated disposition plan to improve the balance sheet and refine the portfolio .
Speaker #6: We have made substantial progress on the sales and give back component of the plan , and have identified a clear path to achieving our $2 billion disposition target .
Speaker #6: To date , we have completed almost 1.2 billion in mall dispositions and as you will see in the disclosure , we've provided in our supplement .
Speaker #6: This includes Country Club Plaza . Biltmore , Southridge , The Oaks , Wilton Mall , South Park , Atlas Park , Lakewood Center , and Valley Mall , all of which are now closed .
Speaker #6: This total also includes Santa Monica place , in which the loan Encumbering . This property is in default , and the property is in receivership .
Speaker #6: In addition , we have identified internally several additional assets for sale or give back over the next year or so , which would increase total mall positions to the 1.4 to $1.5 billion range .
Speaker #6: The remaining dispositions in our plan represent the sale of all freestanding retail Non-enclosed mall assets and land , as you will recall , our 2025 goal for this bucket of dispositions is 100 million to 150 million .
Speaker #6: In total sales for the year . I'm pleased to report that we currently have approximately 130 million sold or under contract against this target .
Speaker #6: Year to date, we have now closed on land sales for $55 million at our share and various outparcel assets for $11 million at our share. We currently have approximately $15 million of additional land sales and approximately $50 million of additional outparcel sales under contract for sale.
Speaker #6: We continue to expect to be substantially complete on our $2 billion disposition program by the end of 2026 . We'll provide further updates on these sales as we progress through the year .
Speaker #6: In conclusion , we are making great progress on our path forward plan objectives to reduce leverage to refine the portfolio , and to strengthen the balance sheet .
Speaker #6: With that , we'll turn the call back over to the operator .
Speaker #2: Thank you . As a reminder to ask a question , please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced .
Speaker #2: And to withdraw your question , please press star one one again . Again , we ask you limit to one question and one follow up .
Speaker #2: And our first question will come from Vince Tiboni with Green Street . Your line is now open .
Speaker #7: Hi . Good afternoon . I just wanted to follow up on the equity issuance here . I totally understand the deleveraging goals , but you know , the prior equity raise , you know , closer to $20 .
Speaker #7: I know you're very bullish on the stock over the intermediate term . So I guess kind of what drove the decision to do 50 million here .
Speaker #7: And then also should we expect further ATM issuances over time . Or is this kind of more of a one quarter event to to to get let Crabtree more leverage neutral .
Speaker #6: Events . Good afternoon . This is Dan I'll start and then Jack can chime in . I think the main objective in the third quarter was to make Crabtree leverage neutral .
Speaker #6: As I mentioned , going forward we'll continue to evaluate the ATM use in the context of accretive growth . Like Crabtree , we'll continue to be thoughtful and disciplined in our approach and evaluation .
Speaker #6: We've completed the equity issuance portion of the Path Forward plan , and I know Jack's previously said we would consider equity outside of the plan in the context of these type of acquisition or large capital projects that are accretive to our 2028 path forward plan targets .
Speaker #7: Know that that's really helpful . And then maybe next one , just switching gears , I just wanted to clarify on the snow pipeline you highlighted 6 million of that was related to Crabtree .
Speaker #7: Was that all incremental leasing at Crabtree since August ? Just wanted to confirm that wasn't , you know , leases that were in place when the when the mall was acquired back in the second quarter .
Speaker #6: Yeah . If you recall , when we acquired it , it was 11% going in yield . But with in-place snow , it brought it up to about 12.5 .
Speaker #6: So it's really a combination of what was in place at the time of acquisition . Plus incremental leasing by the team . Since we've taken ownership .
Speaker #7: Are you able to parse those two ? Just because ? I think it would be helpful to kind of , you know , isolate what how much leasing took place and kind of over the last three months , if you have it handy .
Speaker #4: We can follow up with you afterwards . But I would tell you that there's a lot of good progress on the leasing front in terms of deals that have been approved and gone through our committee .
Speaker #4: You know , we've we've made we've signed some deals , actually already . So we've got others in process . So , you know , we'll give you we'll give more update as we make more progress .
Speaker #2: In the next question, we will hear from Sameer. Kunal, Bank of America, your line is now open.
Speaker #8: Yeah . Good evening everybody . I guess Doug , maybe talk about the 26 accelerations . You talked about the commitments on the 55% .
Speaker #8: I think it was another 30% on the the Lois talk about the economics on those deals , the pricing kind of kind of the spreads you're seeing on those versus maybe the 25 expirations .
Speaker #5: Hey , Samir . Yeah , you're right . We I think in my opening remarks , we said 55% of our expiring square footage and 30% in the letter of intent stage .
Speaker #5: So we're basically trading paper on 88% of our business in 2026 . And to put it in perspective , I mentioned this earlier at this time last year , we were only 23% committed when looking at our 2025 expirations .
Speaker #5: So we're way ahead of where we were last year . And as with our as with our new deals , our renewal deals , both in 2526 and we're going out to 27 is all at or mostly all at or above our target market .
Speaker #5: Rents that are in the five year plan .
Speaker #8: Got it . And then I guess Jack , just turning over to you on this 100 million of snow pipeline , which is you're tracking ahead of kind of your budget here .
Speaker #8: You talked about the $130 million opportunity without craft , 340 with Crabtree . Given the momentum that you have in leasing here , as you saw through the last several quarters , is it fair to assume you're you're tracking exceed the 140 at this point ?
Speaker #4: Yeah . It's possible . It really is , because I think we can probably be more more thoughtful or more be more price sensitive on renewals as well .
Speaker #4: I mean, we're seeing momentum across the board, as Doug said, on new and renewals that we're approving and signing from a net effective rent standpoint.
Speaker #4: You know , we also had , if you recall , reserves built in the plan . So we're trying to , you know , as we continue to gain more momentum to lease additional space that we didn't really believe we could lease .
Speaker #4: You know , that's that's I think that gives us an ability to kind of exceed that . 140 target as we continue to make progress .
Speaker #2: Thank you . And our next question will come from Michael Griffin with Evercore . Your line is open .
Speaker #9: Great . Thanks . Just wanted to get some color around these anchor leases that you've , you know , got expected to commence over the next couple of years .
Speaker #9: Should we think about the cadence of that being more , you know , back half weighted to 27 or 28 ? Do you think some will commence next year and then can you give us a sense of how the capital costs are going to be associated with commencing those , those leases ?
Speaker #4: Yeah , yeah , I think like a safe assumption is , you know , back half of 27 early part of 28 when these actually open the large majority of them .
Speaker #4: Now , you know , we're able to obviously lease in line once we've got commitments as we go through our leasing efforts in , you know , within the malls itself as it relates to economics .
Speaker #4: You know , I think we've given commentary around in-line deals . You know , ten of allowance being something typically into 1 to 1 and a half times annual rent in the form of tenant allowance , you know , for anchor transactions , it's more it really depends on the nature and the type of tenant , you know , takes house of sport .
Speaker #4: They're great . They're not cheap . They're definitely more than one times , I'll tell you that . But each deal to be is different .
Speaker #4: And they're different depending on the center where they are in the market . And some of the deals we've structured them as opportunities for them to purchase some of the vacant anchors , others are leasehold lease deals where we're providing , you know , fairly meaningful tenant allowance , as , you know , as part of their commitment to open .
Speaker #4: So I wouldn't say there's like a rule of thumb . And if you look at other large tenants that we deem as demand generators , you know , I would say the deals are probably on the on the higher end of of what they in terms of landlord costs .
Speaker #4: But obviously we believe that they drive tremendous incremental mall traffic . We certainly analyze that . And we believe that they'll be very successful .
Speaker #4: Like like what we've seen early days at freehold .
Speaker #9: Thanks , Jack . Appreciate the color there . And then Dan , I know you're not going to comment on specifics around South Plains in general , but can you give us a sense of sort of what the lender appetite is like for these ?
Speaker #9: You know , non fortress or non fortress potential assets ? If you were to choose to refi them and then any sense on interest rate you could get if you decide to go down the path of refinancing some of these assets .
Speaker #6: Yeah , I mean look , it's really case by case based on based on the assets . Obviously , we don't want to comment on South Plains in particular , but I think we've all seen , you know , a very constructive debt financing markets , you know , across not just class A assets but more recently going down in the quality spectrum .
Speaker #6: So I think the market's open for Refinancings . But but it's it's case by case really based on the specific asset .
Speaker #2: Thank you. The next question will come from Linda Smith with Jefferies. Your line is open.
Speaker #10: Yes . Hi . In terms of getting to 100 million in snow by year end , potentially , could you also provide the timing of when that comes online ?
Speaker #4: Sorry , this is Brad Miller I'll .
Speaker #11: Take it . So of the 100,000,020 million will come online in 2025 . And the rest will come on in 2026 . And thereafter .
Speaker #10: Got it . And then with 30 anchors targeted to open , how many other anchors are you still trying to lease up ?
Speaker #4: Yeah . So I think we have 25 committed . Three . We have , you know , papers trading Lois out and then two are in prospecting stage .
Speaker #4: There's some other anchors that are in the portfolio , but those are kind of in like give back assets . And so , you know , the totality of what we're referencing are anchors .
Speaker #4: And our go forward portfolio .
Speaker #2: Thank you . And our next question comes from Floris van with Ladenburg . Your line is open .
Speaker #12: Hey , guys . Question on the the opportunities out there for additional malls . Like Crabtree . What are you guys seeing and what is the financing appetite for those kinds of of properties .
Speaker #12: You know the a minus assets in your view is can can you borrow at under 10% on a on a secured basis . Now or where where are borrowing costs trending for for those kinds .
Speaker #12: .
Speaker #4: I mean of course I'll take the front end and I'll let Dan talk about the financing . But you know , we're we're quite happy and excited about Crabtree .
Speaker #4: We think it's a it's a unique asset and a unique market . You know we've got quite a significant amount of leasing demand and interest and tours that have been happening since we bought the asset .
Speaker #4: You know , the asset needed capital . We've already repainted the interior . We've got mockups on rails and lighting already put in place .
Speaker #4: You know , plans to do wayfinding and work on bathrooms and , you know , do some , do some maintenance and improvement on the parking areas .
Speaker #4: I mean , that's a that's a unique asset . Just it's like you put a little bit of capital in there . I think a lot of tenants got very excited with us stepping in , you know , long term owner operator in the mall space .
Speaker #4: And so I think it's a great rally opportunity for us to generate a lot of really good return . Look , we're looking for other we're evaluating other opportunities .
Speaker #4: I can just tell you we don't have anything that sort of satisfies us . I would say imminently or in this quarter , we at this point .
Speaker #4: But I think in time , more of these opportunities will come up as as loans go , you know , either into receivership or special servicing .
Speaker #4: I mean , you've got to you've got to have a capital commitment and a plan to to really get these centers to go in the right direction , like a Crabtree .
Speaker #4: And so I suspect we'll see more opportunity as we roll into 2026 . And 2027 . I mean , I think , you know , us .
Speaker #4: You know , from a when we think about acquisitions , you know , if you look at our overall capital allocation . Progress year to date , you know , since I've been here , you know , we've sold , you know , 1.2 billion of centers at about an eight cap .
Speaker #4: You know , widely sell them . You know , a they were either non-core , took too much capital to achieve you . Know , thriving centers that , you know , that would satisfy IRS and return on investment for us .
Speaker #4: You saw us buy out , you know , our partner on the PRT , JV , which included Lakewood , Los Cerritos and Washington Square .
Speaker #4: You know , that was done at a low seven cap . But really critical properties that , you know , we couldn't refinance anything .
Speaker #4: You know , we had to you know , we had the Sears . We owned the Sears locations in both the lesser Washington Square .
Speaker #4: So there were a lot of strategic reasons for us to gain control of that asset to effectuate the business plans , which we'll be able to drive leasing and anchor decisions in a couple of our best centers .
Speaker #4: And then we showed the example of Crabtree . So look , the bottom line is we're going to look at opportunities that are creative to our 2028 FFO per share , where we believe we have the ability to drive incremental leasing and NOI growth that can generate strong IRR and return on investment .
Speaker #4: And I'd say we're very disciplined about what we're looking at. So, and then I think you can comment that the financing market has really improved for these assets.
Speaker #6: So yeah that's right . We're seeing very improved financing market for these types of assets . In fact look for us , you know , in August we were able to close on a about $160 million term loan on Crabtree , which was well inside the 10% that you quoted our loan is at an interest rate of sulfur plus 250 .
Speaker #6: And this particular term loan gives us tremendous flexibility . It's got a two year term plus two one year extension options . So we have flexibility to prosecute the asset management plan with this structure .
Speaker #6: And we also were able to negotiate a , you know , an early prepayment without penalty . If we chose to do that .
Speaker #6: So a lot of flexibility in our loan . But certainly well inside the 10% you quoted sulfur plus 250 and kind of the the mid mid 6% range .
Speaker #4: And and I'd say like if a if a private buyer wanted to get leverage , they can get investment grade debt securitization . And there's , there's more opportunity out there .
Speaker #4: I think you saw the recap on North Park Mall . You know , they got pretty they got they a pretty good levels on that refinancing to take out their partner .
Speaker #4: So I think the financing markets and the markets are improving quite a bit as we speak . You know , on malls that , you know , have the right operator , have the right capital commitment and the expertise to kind of get it done .
Speaker #2: Thank you . Our next question will come from Ronald Camden with Morgan Stanley . Your line is open .
Speaker #13: Hey , great . Just on the go forward portfolio . Just quickly on the same store . And why in the quarter any way to sort of quantify sort of the drag from either forever 21 or proactively taking on space just what that what that sort of did to that same store number .
Speaker #13: And if I could ask quickly as well , just that occupancy of 94.3 in your mind , what do you think is sort of peak occupancy for that portfolio ?
Speaker #13: Thanks .
Speaker #6: Hey , Ronald , this is Dan . I'll start on the first point on NOI again , just recall 2025 is , you know , transitional year as we're , you know , executing on our retargeting initiatives across the portfolio .
Speaker #6: And we have some frictional downtime in the second half of 2025. To your question on Forever 21, it is also impacted on a year-over-year comp basis.
Speaker #6: So near term there's an impact . But as Doug indicated , longer term a significant positive with higher quality tenants . And our ability to double the rent in those spaces when the back come in .
Speaker #6: But our 1.7% growth , if you were to adjust for forever 21 would be closer to 3% . Plus for the for the quarter .
Speaker #2: Thank you . And our next question will come from Omotayo Okusanya with Deutsche Bank . Your line is open .
Speaker #14: Yes . Good evening everyone . I know you don't have a lot of exposure to Saks as a whole . Maybe like one Neiman Marcus box or maybe an off site somewhere , but just curious how you're kind of thinking through the situation there .
Speaker #14: Just given some of the media speculation about , you know , some difficulties that they're dealing with .
Speaker #4: Yeah , obviously we're not going to comment specifically on that tenant . I think you referenced Saks Fifth Avenue . Right . So we we have I think we have one at fashion outlets in Chicago .
Speaker #4: Yes , I would yeah . We talk specifically about a specific kind of basis .
Speaker #15: Okay . Thank you .
Speaker #2: Thank you . And our next question will come from handle Saint Joe's with Mizuho . Your line is open .
Speaker #16: Hey guys . Good afternoon to you . Thanks for taking the question . I wanted to go back to the portfolio sales for the productivity continues to get better here .
Speaker #16: Maybe some more color on the categories . The regions driving this and give us some color on foot traffic and sales throughout the quarter .
Speaker #16: And the back to school season and expectation for the holiday season . Thanks .
Speaker #4: Sure . I mean , look , the the strong momentum we're seeing on leasing , which is obviously really critical for our plan .
Speaker #4: You know , it's it's not showing up in traffic . You know , traffic is Doug talked about was kind of generally flat .
Speaker #4: But if you look at you know comp sales comparing 2025 to 2024 , in the third quarter for our go forward portfolio , those numbers were 3.5% .
Speaker #4: And our fortress properties 4.8% . So , you know , obviously the stronger properties saw , better performance from a 24 versus 25 third quarter basis .
Speaker #4: That's obviously a lot better than Q1 Q2 . Q1 . We have Liberation Day was flowing through there . Tariffs , a lot of noise .
Speaker #4: It's really encouraging to see in the third quarter this kind of turn; part of that's back to school and other factors.
Speaker #4: And in terms of categories , the third quarter you know apparel and accessories , fast food , general and home furnishings and jewelry .
Speaker #4: Did quite well . Obviously athleisure as well . So it feels like , you know , the higher end customer , obviously there's we've got a duality , lower income .
Speaker #4: I think there's obviously more challenges in the higher income . You know , customer bracket . We're seeing those categories . Obviously the fortress is performing better than the overall go forward that I gave you .
Speaker #4: Those numbers . So I think that is sort of the tail right now . And you know , as Doug was maybe alluding to , you know , I think the retailers are generally optimistic in the fourth quarter .
Speaker #4: You know, they've got tariffs and they've got other things that they've got to manage with suppliers, potential price increases, and other pressures on vendors.
Speaker #4: But it feels pretty good for the fourth quarter, which, you know, as the holiday season is upon us.
Speaker #16: Got it . Thanks for that . And if I could follow up one more . Maybe more on the transaction market , we've seen a few more mall trades , and I guess I'm curious what your what you make of some of the cap rates we've seen for Brickell , Taubman , North Park and what you think the read through for your go forward portfolio is thanks .
Speaker #4: Those are a little bit different . I mean like Crabtree was an auction process . You know you know they had a institutional owner that had no debt on the property that was looking to maximize value .
Speaker #4: You know , North Park was sort of like an internal JV buyout . Obviously is a pretty they got great financing . It was a very exciting cap rate relative to how that might translate .
Speaker #4: You know , in our best properties . You know , I think Brickell I don't know the details of it , but same situation where , you know , there's a JV buyout .
Speaker #4: Obviously the partner Simon , they know that partner . They know the asset quite well . So I feel like those weren't you know , auctions , arm's length transactions .
Speaker #4: So they have a little bit different . But I do think that Crabtree is a good beginning comp . I think there'll be others that you know , others that we're not .
Speaker #4: There's other processes that we're not participating in . So that'll give more insight as to where the proper levels are for what I would call fully auctioned and marketed centers .
Speaker #2: Thank you. And our next question will come from Greg McGinnis with Scotiabank. Your line is open.
Speaker #17: Hey , good afternoon . I was curious on that incremental rent . 99 million . How much of that is coming from the anchor spaces that you're now filling up ?
Speaker #11: It's definitely this is Brad Miller . It is . I don't have the number off top of my head , but it is definitely a part of the $99 million .
Speaker #11: And we can follow up with you .
Speaker #17: Okay . Thank you . And then for asset like fashion District , which sits into the go forward portfolio . But you know , there's been different plans for that asset over the years .
Speaker #17: Obviously an expensive redevelopment . Bought it from your partner hopeful for getting the arena there . That fell through . Is there additional plans for for redevelopment there or anything to kind of excite tenants for that asset ?
Speaker #4: You know , we finally redirected leasing energy and effort . You know , on that center . We really had our hands tied because of the the arena .
Speaker #4: You know , we really couldn't do anything because it was taking up such critical space . And you're trying to you can imagine you're trying to hold tenants together .
Speaker #4: That would be potentially part of where the arena would sit . And you have to move them . You know , the teams are actually , you know , I'd say I'm cautiously optimistic about some of the early momentum that we're starting to see there .
Speaker #4: You know , I think the mayor is very focused . You know , in this area as well . And there's efforts to try to just improve the overall area that fashion district of Philadelphia sits in .
Speaker #4: You know , we don't have any debt on the property . So I think , you know , we're going to do our best to try to figure out how to create the right kind of leasing momentum .
Speaker #4: And merchandising mix and really make sure that we can , you know , with the IRS and return on investment makes sense . So we're going through that right now .
Speaker #4: I'd say it's still early days , but so far from what I've seen from the early parts of the feedback from the teams on our quarterly asset reviews , you know , we we're finally after it .
Speaker #4: And , getting and I , think that we can get some help from the city in terms of what their plans are for that area to try to improve it .
Speaker #4: That that might improve our prospects . There .
Speaker #2: Thank you . And the next question will come from Todd Thomas with KeyBanc Capital Markets . Your line is open .
Speaker #18: Yeah . Hi . Thanks , Doug . I wanted to follow up on leasing two questions , actually . You know , first , it looks like Spread's releasing spreads this quarter were down with the T12 releasing metric , decreasing the 5.9% .
Speaker #18: You said that you're tracking ahead of the market rent projections in the Path Forward plan . But what does that mean for releasing spreads going forward ?
Speaker #18: If you could provide some color ? And then the second question , I think you characterized your commentary around , you know , the 25 and 26 expirations that have been addressed as a percent of the tenants that are expected to renew .
Speaker #18: What kind of tenant retention are you anticipating in 2026? Is there anything worth calling out or noting in terms of non-renewal activity?
Speaker #4: If you , Doug , on the first part , on the on the releasing spread , you know , we are you know , we're leasing ahead of schedule .
Speaker #4: As you can see from a velocity standpoint . And as we said , we're ahead of net effective rents on new and renewal deals that we've signed up and approved .
Speaker #4: Depending on the mix of the pool , every quarter , you're going to see variation on releasing spreads . I would not read honestly too much into it .
Speaker #4: We're having what I call significant increases in leasing , and the thing you want to focus on , you know , are we on track with our speedometer ?
Speaker #4: Because that's a revenue concept as it relates to completion. You know, are we above our net effective rent projections for each space?
Speaker #4: These are space by space. You know, numbers that we have to have go forward in the portfolio. And I will tell you that this number is going to move around.
Speaker #4: And I wouldn't if it's up , if it's if it's like 15% , I would move . I wouldn't look and conclude too much into it .
Speaker #4: Depending on the nature of the renewals and what we have going into the mix at that time , it's going to influence that .
Speaker #4: So to me , the number that I focus on , you know , are we ahead on our net effective rent basis because that's that's the real dollars that are going to materialize relative to the snow .
Speaker #4: We're projecting . And on renewals and you follow up on that second part , question .
Speaker #5: Yeah . No , I think you kind of hit on it , Jack . So we talked about where we were in 2025 and 2026 .
Speaker #5: We're way ahead in 2026 compared to this time last year . And it's part of our five year plan . We're really focused on 2027 and 2028 as well .
Speaker #5: We've had success getting the retailers to come to the table in order to in order to address these futures , which I think is extremely important because we really mitigates the risk of our five year plan .
Speaker #5: And as Jack sort of alluded to , in terms of spreads , Todd , it's really more about hitting our market rents that are part of the five year plan .
Speaker #5: And I can tell you that with both our new deals and renewing our expirations , we are hitting our targets as part of the five year plan .
Speaker #6: Todd , I'll just add to the second part of your question on tenant retention , too . I think for 26 , we're expecting about , what , 85% ?
Speaker #5: Yeah . Thank you .
Speaker #2: Thank you. And our next question will come from Alexander Goldfarb with Piper Sandler. Your line is open.
Speaker #19: Hey . Good afternoon and thank you . So two questions . First , just thinking about the Canadian and Mexican . You tourists and snowboarders .
Speaker #19: You know , Arizona , obviously big market . You know , what is ultimately happened . There was concern at the beginning . You know , towards the beginning of the year that there would be , you know , a lot fewer like Canadians coming down .
Speaker #19: And maybe that would impact sales . Are there retailers seeing that play out or this winter is looking more like a normal one , in which case your percent rents from the Scottsdale assets , etc.
Speaker #19: Should not really be any impact to just trying to see if there's going to be an impact or not.
Speaker #4: Look , I mean , I think for , for you know , between ATC , the Canadians coming over , it's definitely a reduced number .
Speaker #4: You know , sure , you know , at fashion outlets in Chicago , which is typically an international kind of customer that goes in there .
Speaker #4: That being said , you know , if you look at the third quarter , our best , you know , the center that had the highest 25 versus 24 , third quarter sales performance is Scottsdale Fashion Square .
Speaker #4: Top of the list . So it's you know , it's sort of I think I don't know if I draw too much conclusion .
Speaker #4: In our assets, they're pretty, you know, they're not, I wouldn't call them necessarily tourist destinations, with the exception of maybe Chicago, that gets a little bit more influence.
Speaker #4: There . But definitely there's been less Canadians coming into the country and that's but I haven't seen been seen a material impact in in the sales performance within our portfolio .
Speaker #19: Okay . And then the second question is , Doug , you guys mentioned a lot of strength on the leasing front . And that's been a theme that we've been hearing .
Speaker #19: At the same time , there are news articles , you know , like a number of talking about like Chipotle and other brands that have been struggling because consumers have been shying away from them .
Speaker #19: So how do how do you guys interpret some of these conflicting signals where it would seem like the consumer is under stress , they're pulling back and at the same time , it seems like they're still shopping the malls and the retailers remain healthy .
Speaker #19: And the retailers are growing . I'm just trying to understand how to jive , you know , sort of conflicting signals between what the retailers seem to actually be doing versus , you know , some of these headlines that we read about .
Speaker #5: Yeah . Alex . Doug , thanks . It's a great question because , you know , I talk about all this retailer demand , Jack was talking about the leasing leases we've signed .
Speaker #5: We've talked about our executive leasing committee . And , you know , the numbers we're putting up , the metrics we're putting up are counterintuitive to everything that you read about in the paper on the news .
Speaker #5: And I think there's a few reasons for that . One is our portfolio Macerich has a must have portfolio . There's not a new supply , not a lot of new supply out there .
Speaker #5: And the retailers have to expand . I mean , they're taking down leases for five , seven , ten years . And they're they're sophisticated enough .
Speaker #5: They're able to see past what's going on and maybe what you're reading about in the paper. They're being very opportunistic and are using this opportunity to take down great space in great malls, all of which we have.
Speaker #5: So and then you have the emerging brands , which I referred to . And , you know , more and more they're coming to the plate because we know that when they open bricks and mortar stores , it it helps their online business .
Speaker #5: It supports their online business. So, you know, there's a lot of things going on right now in my world that are just counterintuitive to everything that we're reading about or hearing about.
Speaker #2: Thank you . And the next question will come from Craig Mailman with Citi . Your line is open .
Speaker #20: Hi . Thanks . This is Sydney Mckinty on for Craig . So I know we already touched on acquisitions a bit , so maybe on the flip side for the dispositions you've been making good progress on the asset sales with Lakewood Valley Mall , Atlas Park , how are you thinking about the pace of asset sales moving forward , and what's the appetite like for some of the non fortress dispositions that you've identified in the portfolio ?
Speaker #6: Yeah , thanks for the question . In terms of the remaining Eddie Mall sales , we've got a handful that I indicated that are in that kind of $200 million plus range .
Speaker #6: You know , a couple of those will be determined based on the timing of the debt maturities as they mature through 2026 . And we'll evaluate , you know , in the context of a sale or in some instances , a potential giveback .
Speaker #6: Now , as it relates to the . Outparcels , you know , we have identified this pool 100 , 150,000,000 in 2025 . That pool is 500 million plus .
Speaker #6: So the majority of those remaining assets the team is working through now in terms of readying them for sale for 2026 . So , as I said in my prepared remarks , I think , you know , the progress on the dispositions has been phenomenal by the team .
Speaker #6: That's done a great job across the organization with the dollars of assets sold to date, and we're on track to substantially complete the $2 billion disposition program by the end of '26.
Speaker #20: Thanks . That's helpful . And then maybe a quick follow up on forever 21 of that , 74% committed . How are tees and concessions trending ?
Speaker #20: And have you had to split any boxes, leading to higher CapEx commitments, or is it mostly single tenants? Are you able to find backfill?
Speaker #5: Say it's dug. I would say it's a mix in some instances; we're just simply replacing a large Forever 21 box, and that may require a little bit less capital.
Speaker #5: But in some cases we are dividing up a box . And , you know , the reason we're doing it is because we have demand for a long time we've been trying to get these large format tenants in our in our properties and just haven't had the space .
Speaker #5: So , you know , if there's ever a silver lining that comes with a liquidation like this , it really freed up our ability to go after some of these retailers that we've been wanting to , but just didn't have the space without getting into I mean , think about Dick's House of sport .
Speaker #5: Think about Zara , think about Uniqlo , think about round one . I mean , those are all tenants that were replacing forever 21 .
Speaker #5: And I think , you know , going to be significantly more rent with much better retailers . That and Jack was talking about this that are going to drive traffic to these wings and increase dwell time within the center .
Speaker #5: So I think we're in pretty good shape. And to be 74% at this point, given the timing of their liquidation, is a good thing.
Speaker #5: I mean, if you think about it, when we did all these Forever 21 deals, they were sort of the darling of the industry.
Speaker #5: I mean , if you think about it specifics . is sort of a bonus .
Speaker #2: Thank you . And our next question will come from Michael Mueller with JPMorgan . Your line is open .
Speaker #17: Yeah .
Speaker #21: Hi . Just a quick one . On lease spreads this year . And last year the rent spreads on the overall portfolio have been higher than what you reported for the the stronger go forward portfolio .
Speaker #21: Just curious what's driving that .
Speaker #11: Hi , this is Brad Miller . I wouldn't read too much into it . It's just a pool of leases that are being signed on .
Speaker #11: Each of the on each of the spaces .
Speaker #21: Okay , so so basically mix and then actually if I can sneak a follow up in there Dan , when do you think you'll be at a position where you can start to think about tightening the 2028 FFO range ?
Speaker #21: Do you think it could be next year , or do you want to get past the asset sales next year and get into 27 ?
Speaker #6: You know , I think that's something we'll evaluate as we get closer to year end and further along with the program to provide , you know , to provide any updates .
Speaker #6: You know , we just put out the version 2.0 at the June REIT and it is a multi year plan . So I think we'll evaluate as we get kind of through this year and see where we're at in totality and all the initiatives on across the Path Forward plan .
Speaker #2: Thank you. The next question will come from Caitlin Burrows with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Speaker #22: Hi , everyone . Just wanted it goes as a decent follow up to that last one . So on the path forward plan right now , you guys have a midpoint of $1.81 .
Speaker #22: And you've mentioned Crabtree's $0.08 accretive . So maybe this was more of A2Q question , but I don't think it got asked . Then would you say the new target is $0.08 higher .
Speaker #22: So midpoint $1.89 or not exactly .
Speaker #6: Yeah, that's right, Caitlin. The Path Forward plan was put out before the Crabtree acquisition. So the midpoint of that range was $1.81.
Speaker #6: The Crabtree was expected to be $0.08 accretive . Obviously there's adjustments along the way . For example the ATM 50 million that we just used .
Speaker #6: But I think that's the right way to think about it in terms of the plan that was put out pre-Crabtree and then the accretive cents to that plan subsequent to that.
Speaker #22: Got it . Okay I'll stop there . Thanks .
Speaker #2: Thank you . And now this does conclude our question and answer session . I would now like to turn it back to Jack for closing remarks .
Speaker #4: All right . Thank you . Operator . Thank you . Michelle , I'd like to thank all of you for participating . In our Q3 2025 earnings call .
Speaker #4: We're excited about our progress on our Path Forward plan and about the future prospects for our company . So with that , good evening .