Q3 2025 Boise Cascade Co Earnings Call
Speaker #1: Good morning . My name is Steve and I'll be your conference facilitator today . At this time , I would like to welcome everyone to Boise Cascade Co third Quarter 2020 Earnings Conference call .
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Speaker #1: After today's presentation , there will be an opportunity to ask question , to ask a question . You may press star , then one on your telephone keypad .
Speaker #1: To withdraw your question , please press star . Then two . Please note this event is being recorded . I would now like to turn the conference over to Chris Foray , Vice President , Finance and Investor Relations .
Speaker #1: Mr. foray , you may begin your conference .
Speaker #2: Thank you , Steve , and good morning , everyone . We'd like to welcome you to Boise Cascade Co Third quarter 2020 earnings Call and Business Update .
Speaker #2: Joining me on today's call are Nathan Jorgensen , our CEO Jeff Strum . Our COO Kelly Hibbs , our CFO , Troy Little , head of our wood products operations .
Speaker #2: And Joe Barney , head of our building materials distribution operations . Turning to slide two . This call will contain forward looking statements .
Speaker #2: Please review the warning statements in our press release on the presentation slides and in our filings with the SEC regarding the risks associated with these forward-looking statements.
Speaker #2: Also, please note that the appendix includes reconciliations from our GAAP net income to EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA, as well as segment income or loss to segment EBITDA.
Speaker #2: I will now turn the call over to Nate . Thanks , Chris . Good morning everyone . Thank you for joining us on our earnings call today .
Speaker #2: I'm on slide number 3rd September 2025 . US housing starts . Data has not has not been released by the US Census Bureau .
Speaker #2: However when comparing July 2025 and August 2025 , August 25th housing starts the same periods in 20 for total US housing starts increased 2% , while single family housing starts decreased 3% .
Speaker #2: Our consolidated third quarter sales of 1.7 billion were down 3% from third quarter 2020 . For . Our net income was 21.8 million , or $0.58 per share , compared to net income of 91 million , or $2.33 per share , in the year ago quarter .
Speaker #2: As expected in wood products , we experienced sequentially lower sales volumes and competitive pricing pressure in AWP plywood markets , like other commodities , continue to experience weak pricing given the underlying demand environment in BMD , our customers expanded reliance on us for next day delivery service across a range of products helped to mitigate the otherwise subdued environment .
Speaker #2: Given this backdrop , we were still able to post good earnings for the third quarter . We have great clarity on our business model and the strength of our financial position and unwavering commitment to our core values enable us to remain focused on the execution of our strategic priorities .
Speaker #2: Our two step distribution model , in tandem with our market leading AWP and plywood franchises , will continue to deliver exceptional value to both our customers and vendor partners , providing reliable access to products , responsive service and operational flexibility that are vital in dynamic markets .
Speaker #2: Kelly will now walk through our segment financial results . Capital allocation priorities and guidance on our fourth quarter results , after which I'll make closing comments before we take your questions .
Speaker #2: Kelly . Thank you , and good morning , everyone . What product sales in the third quarter , including sales to our distribution segment , were 396.4 million , down 13% compared to third quarter 2020 .
Speaker #2: For . What product segment EBITDA was 14.5 million compared to EBITDA of 77.4 million reported in the year ago quarter . The decrease in segment EBITDA was due primarily to lower AWP and plywood sales prices and sales volumes , as well as higher per unit conversion costs that were influenced by decreased production rates in the quarter .
Speaker #2: In BMD , our sales in the quarter were 1.6 billion , down 1% from third quarter 2020 . For BMD reported segment EBITDA of 69.8 million in the third quarter , segment EBITDA of 87.7 million in the prior year quarter .
Speaker #2: Gross margin , dollars decreased 10.6 million from the third quarter of 2024 . In addition , selling and distribution expenses increased 7.8 million from the year ago quarter , partly due to organic and inorganic growth initiatives .
Speaker #2: We have executed upon in the last 12 months . Turning to slide five . Third quarter I-joist and lvl volumes were down 10% and 7% , respectively , compared to the year ago quarter .
Speaker #2: As expected , third quarter AWP volumes were down 15% sequentially as distribution and dealer partner inventories were drawn down to targeted levels with seasonal slowing anticipated on a year to date basis .
Speaker #2: Our I-joist and LVL volumes were down 6% and 1% , respectively . As it relates to pricing , competitive pressures drove sequential declines for I-joist and LVL of 6% and 5% , respectively .
Speaker #2: Turning to slide six . Our third quarter plywood sales volume was 387,000,000ft , compared to 391,000,000ft in the third quarter of 2020 . For .
Speaker #2: Sequentially , our plywood sales volumes were up 9% from second quarter 2025 , driven by diverting less veneer into AWP production . Given the muted demand environment and higher production rates at our kettle Falls and Oakdale facilities .
Speaker #2: $325 per thousand average plywood net sales price in the third quarter was down 2% on a year over year basis , and down 5% compared to second quarter of 2025 .
Speaker #2: We have to look back to second quarter of 2020 to find a lower average quarterly price realization in plywood . The longevity and levels of recent tariff announcements on plywood imports from South America remain in question , and have yet to create any meaningful impact on plywood markets .
Speaker #2: Moving to slide seven and eight . Vmds year over year . Third quarter sales . Decline of 1% was driven by a 1% decrease in price .
Speaker #2: A sales volumes were flat by product line . Commodity sales decreased 3% . General line product sales increased 6% and sales of AWP decreased 11% sequentially .
Speaker #2: BMD sales were down 4% from second quarter 2025 , driven by a 2% decline in both sales price and volume . Our third quarter gross margin was 15.1% , a 60 basis points year over year decline .
Speaker #2: Commodity price headwinds in AWP . Competitive pricing pressures impacted our margins on these product lines . However , margins on general line products remained stable despite the subdued demand environment .
Speaker #2: Dmd's EBITDA margin was 4.5% for the quarter , down from both 5.6% reported in the year ago quarter and the 5.7% reported in the second quarter .
Speaker #2: Sequentially , our EBITDA margin was negatively impacted by a 30 basis point reduction in gross margins and decreased sales volumes . Had the effect of lowering gross margin , dollar opportunity and deleveraging of our cost base MD .
Speaker #2: Third quarter EBITDA margin is below our normalized level of earnings power , but a very good result given demand and pricing dynamics in today's marketplace .
Speaker #2: While these were results reflect strong execution across product lines by our team , growth in our general line products has been a focus for us where our proven performance and nationwide distribution capabilities enable us to provide a leading selection of general line products .
Speaker #2: The recent announcement with James Hardie is an example of where we are happy to be expanding product offerings in several specific markets and at the same time , it is important to note that this announcement is not displace any existing market coverage we have with Trex .
Speaker #2: I'm now on slide nine. We had capital expenditures of $187 million in the nine months ended September 2025, with $99 million of spending in wood products and $88 million of spending in BMD.
Speaker #2: We remain committed to the capital plan presented earlier in the year with our capital spending range for 2025 at 230 to 250 million .
Speaker #2: In wood products that range includes the multi-year investments in support of our AWP production capabilities in the Southeast , referenced on prior calls .
Speaker #2: The Oakdale Modernization is complete and will continue to make progress on optimization activities . Spending on the Thoresby Line will largely be complete by year end , and the line is expected to be operational in the first half of 2026 , and BMD , part of our capital deployment strategy is to solidify and expand our market leading national distribution presence .
Speaker #2: In August , we opened the doors at our greenfield distribution center in Hondo , Texas and are excited for the opportunity to better serve customers across Austin , San Antonio , Corpus Christi , and the Rio Grande Valley .
Speaker #2: Looking forward to 2026 , we expect our capital spending to be between 150 and 170 million . Speaking to shareholder returns , we paid 27 million in regular dividends in the nine months ended September 30th , 2025 .
Speaker #2: Our board of directors also recently approved a 22 cent per share quarterly dividend on common stock that will be paid in mid-December to the first ten months of 2025 .
Speaker #2: We repurchased approximately 120 million shares of Boise common stock, which includes approximately 25 million in the third quarter and another 9 million in October.
Speaker #2: In addition , our board of directors recently authorized up to $300 million of common stock repurchases under a new share repurchase program . This new authorization replaced our prior share repurchase authorization .
Speaker #2: In summary , we continue to be dedicated to a balanced deployment of capital by investing in our existing asset base , pursuing value enhancing organic and M&A growth opportunities , and returning capital to our shareholders .
Speaker #2: We're fortunate that our solid financial foundation and resilient free cash flow allow us to simultaneously advance each of these objectives . I'm now on slide ten , looking forward to the fourth quarter .
Speaker #2: Demand weakness , trade policy uncertainties and the impact of seasonal factors will influence our financial results presented in the table are a range of potential EBITDA outcomes and related key driver assumptions .
Speaker #2: For wood products . We currently estimate fourth quarter EBITDA to be between breakeven and 15 million . We expect our AWP volumes to decline in the low double digits to mid-teens sequentially as the pace of starts moderates AWP prices have recently stabilized , but we do expect low single digit sequentially declines due to market adjustments previously taken in third quarter .
Speaker #2: In plywood , we expect sequential volume decreases at or near double digits on plywood . Pricing October realizations were consistent with the third quarter average , the balance of the fourth quarter market dependent , as is typically the case during the fourth quarter , we will take maintenance and capital project related downtime across our manufacturing system , and may also take market related downtime to align production rates and inventory positions with end market demand .
Speaker #2: Important to note , although masked at seasonally weak demand levels , our number of site specific cost improvement measures in wood products that , when coupled with our division wide innovation initiatives , will benefit our AWP and plywood franchises into the future .
Speaker #2: For BMD , we currently estimate fourth quarter EBITDA to be between 40 and 55 million . Bmds daily sales pace in October was approximately 5% , below the third quarter sales pace of 24.3 million per day , and is expected to decline further as the quarter progresses .
Speaker #2: Our recent volume changes have compared favorably to single family starts data , a trend we would expect to continue and an indication of the two step value proposition and our customer partners reliance upon us for next day .
Speaker #2: Out of warehouse service . In addition to limited near-term clarity for end market demand , pricing volatility for plywood , lumber and other commodity products is likely given ongoing trade policy uncertainty and a number of recent capacity curtailment announcements .
Speaker #2: Lastly , we expect our fourth quarter effective tax rate to be between 26 and 27% . This is lower than our third quarter rate of 29% , which was adversely impacted by the effect of permanent tax differences on decreased pre-tax book income for 2025 .
Speaker #2: I will turn it now, turn it back over to Nate to share our business outlook and closing remarks. Thanks, Kelly.
Speaker #2: On slide number 11 , now more than ever , our experienced team remains committed to creating value for our shareholders , customers and suppliers by staying resilient , adaptable and focused on delivering exceptional products and services .
Speaker #2: Our integrated model provides increased channel inventory visibility , enabling us to better navigate market uncertainty by aligning production rates and inventory strategies with end market demand .
Speaker #2: Cross-divisional efficiencies supported by our robust balance sheet allows us to maintain our dedication to executing our strategy and creating long term value for all stakeholders .
Speaker #2: Early industry projections for 2026 are consistent with 2025 housing start levels . Demand expectations are characterized by a cautious market in the first half of the year , with gradual improvement expected later in the year , driven by interest rate cuts and normalized HomeBuilder inventory levels in AWP , our planning assumption is that prices have bottomed and we will have an opportunity to move prices higher as 2026 progresses .
Speaker #2: The extended weakness in the residential market has highlighted the resilience of our distribution business . We've seen an increased customer reliance on our warehouse business across our full suite of products .
Speaker #2: As the uncertainty continues heading into 2026 , we stand ready to continue to demonstrate the value of two step distribution . Looking beyond the near-term environment , we remain confident in the long term demand .
Speaker #2: Drivers of residential construction , including the persistent undersupply of housing , aging US housing stock and the high levels of homeowner equity . Generational trends , including millennials and Gen Z reaching peak age for household formation and more seniors choosing to age in place continue to support household formation growth .
Speaker #2: Additionally , continued declines in mortgage rates should encourage buyers who have been waiting on the sidelines to enter the market and the repair and remodeling space activity has been limited by low levels of home turnover and homeowners , delaying major projects due to high borrowing costs and economic uncertainty .
Speaker #2: However , we anticipate consumer confidence will improve as interest rates decline and economic policy becomes clearer , creating a long runway for growth and repair and remodeling projects .
Speaker #2: Strong fundamentals for both new residential construction and repair and remodeling , and the foundation for the industry's robust pathway ahead . And make no mistake , investments we have made in recent years have positioned us well to capture significant upside when the market turns .
Speaker #2: Thank you for joining us today and your continued support and interest in Boise Cascade . We'd welcome any questions at this time . Steve , would you please open the phone lines ?
Speaker #1: Thank you . We will now begin the question and answer session . To ask a question , you may press star , then one on your telephone keypad .
Speaker #1: If you are using a speakerphone , please pick up your handset before pressing the keys . To withdraw your question , please press star then two .
Speaker #1: At this time , we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster . First question comes from Susan McClary with Goldman Sachs . Please go ahead .
Speaker #3: Thank you . Good morning everyone . My first question is on . Hello . My first question is on the general line , part of the business .
Speaker #3: Can you talk to the share gains that you are realizing in there how you're working with the various partners in this kind of an environment and what that suggests for your ability to continue to see growth next year , even if housing in the macro stays more challenging .
Speaker #4: Yeah . So hi , this is Joe . I'll start with that one . What I'll tell you is that demand held up really well with our general line product categories .
Speaker #4: And the third quarter , you know , part of the reason , I think , is that we've made significant investments across our footprint and out of capacity .
Speaker #4: We put really at most of our locations . We've added laydown space . We've added warehouse space . And we've done it intentionally so that we could bring in a broader mix of general line products .
Speaker #4: Carry them on a deeper scale . You know , our our suppliers that we work with , our key partners are consistently adding new products to their to to , you know , what they bring to the market .
Speaker #4: And we want to make sure that we have the ability and the capacity to support their growth as well as support our own.
Speaker #4: So we've we've invested in that , you know , we've also looked at bringing new products in the general line category to market .
Speaker #4: We've taken some risks there . You know , we are have been focused on and achieved growth with our home center business , special order business that we do at the home centers .
Speaker #4: So that's helped us with the general line categories . We focused on and grown our specialty dealer business . Certainly in third quarter .
Speaker #4: So that's been a focus for us . We've been successful at that and we've grown in the multifamily category . And that's been a focus for us as single family housing starts have been flat or depressed .
Speaker #4: You know , we've we've focused significantly into the multifamily arena . We're going to continue to focus on the growth of our multifamily business in the quarters to come .
Speaker #4: And I would tell you that our we believe that our market share growth in certain general categories , that we think we've captured market share , you know , there have been competitors of ours who have exited different product categories across the country , and they've left a void in the market as they exited .
Speaker #4: And our teams have done a really good job of stepping in and filling that void . And taking that market share . And so , you know , we expect now that we have that capacity and we will continue to see that growth in the quarters to come .
Speaker #4: And then last , I think I'd mention our millwork business and the investment that we've made there . And we do continue to strengthen and improve our , our , our operations from a millwork standpoint as well as our sales growth and margin opportunities that we see there .
Speaker #3: Okay , that's great color . And then maybe moving over to E.W. , it's great to hear that you think that price there has bottomed .
Speaker #3: And there's the potential for some growth next year , given what we're hearing and seeing from the builders . Can you talk to the competitive dynamics that you're seeing with AWP ?
Speaker #3: What gives you that confidence on the pricing side ? And any thoughts on the upside or downside to that ? Just given the affordability pressures the builders are facing ?
Speaker #5: Yeah . Good morning Sue , this is Troy . I'll start with kind of what we're seeing , what we've seen and what we're seeing this year .
Speaker #5: And then turn it over to see if Nate and we have anything . You know , as we noted , we we were down 5 or 6% quarter over quarter .
Speaker #5: And that was primarily due to two things . Early in the quarter . It was continued price pressure . And matching competitive issues .
Speaker #5: And then the other one was, we had the tariff on a product we were shipping from the U.S. into Canada. That was a 25% tariff, and we weren't able to fully pass that on.
Speaker #5: And then starting it looked like about August , the prices started stabilize and they continued to stabilize . Since that time , you know , similar to what others have have reported .
Speaker #5: So that's where we're seeing that maybe we've reached the bottom there and then looking into Q4 and kind of how we started the quarter .
Speaker #5: Prices have remained flat and we would expect to continue that throughout the quarter , as we don't have those those other two issues as it appears right now .
Speaker #2: Yeah , I think yeah , I think Troy described that . Well , and I think as we think about 2026 , I think , you know , the backdrop is setting up , okay .
Speaker #2: In terms of what the demand environment is expected to be . And I think we continue to get , you know , builders really insistent in a great way on on cycle times .
Speaker #2: So that's that's been an area of focus for for them over as you know , over the last couple of years . And , and as we think about AWP , it's absolutely part of that answer to make sure that cycle times continue to be perform at a high level for the builders .
Speaker #2: And they can turn that , that land into cash that much quicker . So again , I think it's set up well for next year .
Speaker #2: And Detroit's comments , we feel like we're at a bottom and we can move move higher here at some point in 26 .
Speaker #3: Okay , great . Thank you for all the color and good luck with the quarter .
Speaker #2: Thank you .
Speaker #1: The next question comes from Michael Rockland with Truist Securities . Please go ahead .
Speaker #6: Yeah . Thank you Nate Kelly and Joe Troy Chris for taking my questions . First question I had is obviously just following up on on the BMD question and the mix up in general on , as you think about margins in BMD and BMD , what do you think are the constraints as you see it in terms of generating even higher margins , EBITDA margin ?
Speaker #6: That is, in terms of maybe high single digits or low double-digit margins, as some of your distributor peers currently are.
Speaker #2: Yeah . Good morning Mike . Thanks for the question . So I guess I would start with on gross margins for BMD . At their term here , we feel really good about our ability to maintain the 15 plus percent margins that we've been putting up of late .
Speaker #2: You know , as you know , you know , in markets like this , the reliance and dependency on customer base on out of warehouse service is certainly a relevant .
Speaker #2: And again , we continue to see a good , good pull through there . And then to your point , you know where where might we go from here .
Speaker #2: Again we continue to look to rich in the product mix . And that's , you know , more general line products which do give us more gross margin .
Speaker #2: Opportunity . And at the same time , I don't want to discount our teams in terms of what we've been doing in terms of BWP sell through and also commodities , where we've been doing a really nice job in a really tough environment , in particular in commodities and with commodities at the very low levels that they are today , certainly near term here , we if we get any energy in the commodity markets , we could here we could see some , some , some near-term tailwinds in terms of our margin profile .
Speaker #2: And then I guess maybe one final point would be , you know , as you know . Well , but I guess I'll just verbalize the , you know , fourth quarter , as we see seasonally slower sales , as you'd expect to see again , feel good about the gross margin percentage .
Speaker #2: But the gross margin , dollar opportunity will come off as a function of just lower , lower sales dollars .
Speaker #4: So I jump in there as well and just say that as our general line business becomes a larger percent of our overall sales volume , you know , and we have seen that happening quarter to quarter .
Speaker #4: You know , that's room for margin improvement . There . You know , as we become better operators in our door and millwork investments .
Speaker #4: And we have the quarter to quarter , we continue to move in that direction . And as we become better operators and as we invest in our pre-finish business , that brings higher margin , higher margin opportunities to our business .
Speaker #4: You know , as we bring our lead times in check , as we become better operators , we are finding that we are growing in the success in our millwork business , which will add to our margin opportunity .
Speaker #4: You know , as we as we pushed into multifamily and make a broader push there , we're seeing more more margin opportunity into Keli's point , I would reiterate , you know , we are we are pretty good at our commodity business , and we have a line of sight across the country .
Speaker #4: You know , we built systems in that make us really flexible . And we are able to move quickly both into a rising market and into a falling market so we can reduce and mitigate , you know , our losses in a falling market .
Speaker #4: And we can take advantage of opportunities in a rising market, and we do it really quickly. So I wouldn't discount our ability to make margin on commodities as well.
Speaker #6: No , that's very helpful . I appreciate the color , Joe . And Kelly , you know , second question , just it really isn't that you're beholden to the single family , to single family housing market to some degree .
Speaker #6: You know, is there anything that you can do in this environment to further improve the mill? You know, you highlighted a number of times how you're basically the mill because of capital investment.
Speaker #6: You made the last couple of years . The mills themselves are ripe to to generate significant profitability . When single family returns . But is there anything you can do now for additional cost , takeout or other things that you can do that could situate the company for even greater margin expansion ?
Speaker #6: When the cycle turns ?
Speaker #5: Yeah , this is Troy . I'll look at it from the standpoint like the cost improvement activities that we're doing at the mill level .
Speaker #5: You know , that's something that probably has got muted in the third quarter and may continue to get muted with the lower volumes .
Speaker #5: You know , market related downtime volumes . But behind that the operations have what we call our site improvement plans . And each of the each of the locations are definitely working on a very detailed plan for 2026 to address their site improvement plans .
Speaker #5: We are making sure that we're filling all our process improvement positions . You know , those are support type functions , but instrumental in our process process improvement to reduce our cost , increase our efficiencies .
Speaker #5: And then we also have our group working on innovation . And so we do actually have a couple of , you know , technology type projects planned that we're looking at for 2026 and beyond .
Speaker #5: And all of those should help contribute to improving our cost structure at the mill level , as well as just operating , operationalizing the capital projects that we've we've had over the last couple of years .
Speaker #2: That's the only thing I would add to that . Detroit's comments on cost is just you think about the market . To your point , single family is has been steady , not great .
Speaker #2: But I think the opportunity for us continues to be how do we continue to grow our presence in multifamily . And and that's we're we're very good at that in terms of our franchise .
Speaker #2: That's just I think an area of focus for us as we transition out of 25 and 26 , making sure that we create the right opportunities with our with the multifamily segment .
Speaker #2: And that goes really in some cases beyond . But it touches other product categories and BMD as well . So as we think about single family , it's a big driver for our business .
Speaker #2: But multifamily is an important engine too . And that that that has our focus and and resources as well . Sorry Mike . Maybe one thing I'd add to both Troy and Nate's comments would be , you know , we've been trying to be very thoughtful in terms of , you know , not not making any any knee jerk or foot reactions that we may regret later .
Speaker #2: Right ? I mean , we feel so good about the medium to long term . And so we really need to be thoughtful about how we manage our capacity , including our crews , so that when the market turns , we don't get we don't get caught behind the curve .
Speaker #2: So that always has to be part of our , our , our algebra , if you will .
Speaker #6: That makes a ton of sense . And just one last one . I'll turn it over . You know , when you say growing presence in multifamily , can you just remind us right now where that presence stands currently ?
Speaker #6: MLG family , whether it be maybe three AWP or if you want to talk about the whole portfolio and where you expect it to be , let's say in 2026 .
Speaker #6: And maybe if you want to provide a five year outlook , thank you .
Speaker #2: Yeah . So it's it's it's not a large part of either of our business is today . I don't have a number . Right .
Speaker #2: Right . At hand probably Mike . But we're probably in the you know we're probably single family is still the big driver for us in terms of it's probably , you know , 75 to 80% of our business .
Speaker #2: And then we're probably something like ten and ten there between home . Home center channel and multifamily .
Speaker #6: Thank you Kelly .
Speaker #1: The next question comes from Kurt Yinger with D.A. Davidson . Please go ahead .
Speaker #7: Great . Thanks and good morning , everyone . Troy , I just wanted to go back to the discussion around competitive dynamics and AWP .
Speaker #7: And if I heard you right , you kind of talked about a stabilization kind of coming through in August . Can you maybe just put a little bit more color around that ?
Speaker #7: Is that less dealer and builder business being put to bid ? Is that , you know , maybe a little bit more of a balance in terms of , you know , the trade off between pricing and volume .
Speaker #7: What do you think was really the catalyst there to kind of reach the stabilization ?
Speaker #5: Yeah , I think , you know , as the market starts slowing coming out of Q2 and into Q3 , there was capacity available .
Speaker #5: And so I think there was there was room to move on price in the industry . And people were out there trying to preserve and or grow , share as as things came off , you know , we continue to see that for , you know , several quarters now .
Speaker #5: And , you know , I think we've just gotten to the point where we've addressed the markets where that was necessary for us to to maintain our our volumes .
Speaker #5: And , and we were able to do that by and large . And and now we're in a position , you know , the costs have come up during that time .
Speaker #5: And now prices have moved to a point where I think the industry itself is in a position where there's not a lot left there to go.
Speaker #5: And so now it's just kind of the seasonal impacts as we kind of finish out the year . And so right now we're just seeing that less of a pressure , you know , as people have adjusted production to the demand .
Speaker #2: Maybe just to add to Troy's comments is if you think about the fourth quarter and as we head into the first quarter , working capital is always a focus for our customers .
Speaker #2: And so in AWP , but all product categories , having world class distribution and support really matters . Because that that next day service is important on AWP .
Speaker #2: And we have seen that, and we'll continue to see that going forward. So, as we think about the competitive dynamics, volume, and price, having world-class distribution and support really, really matters in these moments.
Speaker #2: And so we feel good about how we're set up there to execute to that standard . As we close out 2025 and head into 2026 as well .
Speaker #7: Okay . That's super helpful . Thanks . And it sort of ties into my next question . You know . I think realistically , right .
Speaker #7: Like pricing is difficult to predict, but a lot of it comes back to single-family activity. However, it does seem like channel inventories are lean.
Speaker #7: Is there a scenario where seasonally we get into spring period next year ? And even if structurally , you know , housing activity isn't significantly stronger , you feel like there could really be some tension there in the market just based on , you know , what you see in terms of your customer inventories at this stage ?
Speaker #2: Yeah , I'll I'll start . I to me , it's the channel I think is really well balanced in terms of the inventory levels and kind of that risk reward , both on demand and on increase .
Speaker #2: And so as we I think people are positioning as we close out this year , head to next year , I think the , you know , the the marketplace , if there's demand that shows up that someone unexpected or there's maybe a supply disruption .
Speaker #2: To your point , I think there could be maybe some , you know , different urgency to the marketplace that we haven't seen for a period of time , which would include price .
Speaker #2: I think as part of that . So I think it me , the backdrop is , is I think it's set up well because it's there's not a lot of excess that needs to get worked out of the system .
Speaker #2: And to your point , all it takes is a maybe a demand event . We weren't expecting or supply event . We weren't expecting on the downside , you know , to kind of quickly kind of tension things up in the marketplace .
Speaker #2: So I think it's set up , you know , well , not perfectly , but I think , you know , we're as we think about 2026 and I think about , you know , the home builders , you know , they've been pretty active in working their new home inventory levels down .
Speaker #2: That's been an area of focus for them for a period of time . And as we transition into maybe 2026 , you know , at some point a new home sale has to equal a new home start .
Speaker #2: And we haven't been in that, you know, kind of math for a period of time. And so I think in 2026 that gets in better balance as well.
Speaker #2: So I think it's shaping up to have more normalcy than we've frankly experienced for the last year or so.
Speaker #7: Yep . That that all makes sense . And then lastly , I just wanted to go back to the door and millwork performance .
Speaker #7: Can you just talk about , I guess , the sales performance thus far in 2025 ? And you know , as some of these new facilities get up and running , is that something where you would expect , even in a tepid demand environment , just given the capacity that you have and the focus there that you could really drive a healthy amount of kind of above market growth or how dependent on that is , you know , underlying demand from here .
Speaker #5: Jeff, I'd say overall millwork has been challenging this year, with the price pressures and everything else. There's no ands or buts about that.
Speaker #5: However, we have a lot of new facilities and we have a lot of new locations that we're working into this business. Every day that goes by is a day that we get better, we improve, and we get the right people in place for the opportunities that are there.
Speaker #5: So we're definitely , you know , expecting to see more growth regardless of what the market does . Just because we're going to operate significantly better .
Speaker #5: Additionally , we have some locations that are constrained space wise , and we are addressing those . So we're excited for what the what the upside is for us on the business .
Speaker #5: For sure .
Speaker #7: Okay . Appreciate all the color , guys . Thank you .
Speaker #1: The next question comes from George Staphos with Bank of America Securities . Please go ahead .
Speaker #8: Hey good morning guys . This is Brad Barton on for George . You know just you know if we if we go back to the the ASX announcement , you know when we think about the genesis of the deal , you know can you just talk to the puts and takes that you were considering on the move .
Speaker #8: And then you know the delays that come to you . Did you go to them . And then , you know , how do you kind of see that impacting your , your hardy lineup in , in those specific markets ?
Speaker #8: And maybe even across the whole network as well?
Speaker #4: Yeah , I will start with that one . So let me just first say that we are very excited about the opportunity to partner with Hardy in the Baltimore market .
Speaker #4: You know , it's a big decking market . So we see it as a big opportunity . We have not had decking in that market before .
Speaker #4: So this is net new revenue for us . It's not a revenue shift from a different product category . We haven't had it .
Speaker #4: So this is net new revenue . And it's and it's a big opportunity for us . So we're excited about that . We're excited about the full suite of products that we're going to be able to offer in that market .
Speaker #4: So we see a lot of upside revenue potential for us , specifically to the Baltimore Pittsburgh market , saying that , you know , we also have grown our market share with Trex across the country .
Speaker #4: So we've done really well with that brand . So , you know , our our plan is to continue to support both partners , continue to grow our market share as we have in all of those markets across the country .
Speaker #8: Okay , great . And then you just I guess one follow up and I think you guys touched on this a little bit , but , you know , are kind of any signs that you're seeing early in the quarter that you can kind of point to as signs of life or green shoots , not just for the remainder of the quarter and into next year , but maybe even for the spring building season ?
Speaker #5: Yeah , Jeff , I just had one thing that we are seeing and experiencing is that there have been some green shoots in the in the multifamily space , and we're seeing some activity .
Speaker #5: We're seeing a lot of quoting that's going on . We have some projects that we know that are going to kick off to get us through the balance of the year and into the beginning of next year .
Speaker #5: We're seeing a lot of quoting that's going on . We have some projects that we know that are going to kick off to get us through the there any .
Speaker #8: Okay , great . I'll turn it over there . Thanks , guys .
Speaker #1: The next question comes from Jeff Stevenson with Loop Capital. Please go ahead.
Speaker #9: Hi . Thanks for taking my questions today . How much of an impact did the operating inefficiencies related to the ramp and production at your Oakdale facility have on ?
Speaker #9: Wood products margins ? In the third quarter , and will that continue to be a drag on segment margins over the next several quarters ?
Speaker #5: Yeah , this is Troy . Yeah , it's a little bit hard to tell because we've had that market related downtime in there .
Speaker #5: But that team has been , you know , trying to work on all the the machine centers . And we essentially touched all the machine centers .
Speaker #5: And so honestly , you know , working through that , which I would describe as , you know , the operational issues coming out of a large , a large project that they've been working through in the third quarter .
Speaker #5: So we didn't see a huge difference . Specific to Oakdale , you know , say Q3 impacts versus the first two quarters . But moving forward , we would expect them to continue to improve their operating efficiencies , lower that cost structure .
Speaker #5: You know , that was a high cost mill before . Once we get that capital in there or working , you know , we should see that the improvements there .
Speaker #5: I'd hate to put a number on it because I don't know the specifics . And then we have , you know , you're moving into Q4 seasonal issues .
Speaker #5: You've got the shorter months in November and December , and then any market related downtime , you know , it's going to be dependent on on what that looks like .
Speaker #5: Specific to Oakdale .
Speaker #9: Got it , got it . Now , thanks for walking me through that . And then over the past year , you've announced multiple expanded partnership agreements to strengthen your distribution relationship with key suppliers .
Speaker #9: And the most recent one , obviously , is James Hardie . And , you know , I wondered if you could talk more about how these agreements are better positioned .
Speaker #9: The company's general line distribution business , moving forward . And , you whether there could be additional opportunities to expand partnerships with other key suppliers .
Speaker #4: Yeah , I'll start there . I think , you know , we're always looking for opportunities to expand partnerships . But , you know , we're also very focused on the partnerships that we've got and the new products that they bring to market .
Speaker #4: You know, Trex is a great partner for us. We've grown market share with them, and we're going to continue to grow market share with them across the country.
Speaker #4: Hardie has been a great partner for us . You know , inciting across the country . And now we're exploring a new opportunity with them in the Baltimore market .
Speaker #4: Again , you know , I just reiterate , it's a significant decking market and that we haven't had that category before there . So looking at that , we're looking at new partnerships .
Speaker #4: You know , as far as doors and millwork go . So we are always looking to expand . We've added the space and the capacity to do it .
Speaker #4: So we are going to continue to look into whatever partnerships we we have available that we think we can generate sales growth , revenue growth and and margin growth .
Speaker #9: Makes sense . And then one last one just on how you're planning to balance M&A with share repurchases . Moving forward , given the market pull back .
Speaker #9: You know, would you expect to be aggressive with the new 300 million share repurchase program?
Speaker #2: Yeah . Good morning Jeff . I'll take that one . So I guess just stepping back briefly our priorities are very much the same in terms of capital allocation in priority order .
Speaker #2: You know , invest in our existing asset base . Look to do organic growth projects and then also M&A . If the fit and the and the price is right .
Speaker #2: But I would say , you know , absent any meaningful M&A , we would expect to continue to be active with share repurchases here , moving forward .
Speaker #9: Got it . Thanks , Kelly .
Speaker #1: Thank you. To ask a question, you may press star and one. The next question comes from Reuben Garner with Benchmark.
Speaker #1: Please go ahead .
Speaker #10: Thank you . Good morning everybody . Let's see . So if I'm doing the math right and I know you didn't explicitly give top line guidance , but it looks like the distribution segment EBITDA margins going to dip dip into the threes for the first time in a while .
Speaker #10: The third quarter was obviously lower than the second . And I get that there's some seasonality . How should we think about what's going on there like as competition picked up , where do we think that things will stabilize and how do we think about , you know , next year , assuming that the housing market in general is kind of consistent with what we've seen of late .
Speaker #2: Yeah . Good question . I guess I would I would start with saying this isn't a market shared degradation or anything like that feel really good about how we're positioned and how two step distribution shows up in these sorts of market markets .
Speaker #2: So really , what's embedded in the guidance really is , is really , truly a function of just seasonal , seasonal slowing that we expect to see , you know , November and December .
Speaker #2: You got you've only got 18 sales days in November and 21 sales days in December . You got weather . So you got some seasonal seasonal events .
Speaker #2: So so yeah . Could we , could we dip into the high threes in terms of EBITDA margin . Yeah , sure . We could just given the seasonal nature of it .
Speaker #2: But I wouldn't I wouldn't I would not pull back from what we view as the , you know , when we get to a normalized cycle over a normalized year that we can be in , can start with a five in terms of our EBITDA margin .
Speaker #2: So, I feel really good about how we're positioned there, Reuben. It's really just a seasonal event that you're seeing in the fourth quarter.
Speaker #10: Okay , great . That's really helpful . And then how do we think about it . Looks like your inventory , I guess at the ink level don't have segments on that .
Speaker #10: But your inventory as a percentage of revenue ticked up the last couple of years; is that a function of some of the investments in distribution and growth?
Speaker #10: General line ? Is that some kind of signal that you're optimistic about ? You know , the market coming back as we get closer to 26 and you want to make sure you you have the materials or is there some other factor driving driving that that delta .
Speaker #2: Yeah , it's a it's a function of the growth that we've done . We you know , we've added a handful of locations , you know , including M&A via M&A and via organic growth opportunities .
Speaker #2: And then , you know , really comes back to our , you know , our stated goal that we always want to be , you know , in stock and be able to serve the marketplace , especially in times like today .
Speaker #2: And so we feel good about our inventory position . We're not we're not too heavy . I think we're in a good spot .
Speaker #2: And yeah , and then we do feel good . Obviously , about the , you know , here , you know , come back half of 2026 .
Speaker #2: We're very well positioned . If we start to see some more energy here in in the spring building season in 2026 .
Speaker #10: Okay . Great . Thanks guys and good luck .
Speaker #2: Thanks , Reuben .
Speaker #1: The next question comes from Katherine Malhotra with BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Speaker #11: Thank you . Maybe to start with on the BWP side , I mean , your volumes in 2025 are still kind of higher than you know what it was in 2021 , 2022 .
Speaker #11: When housing demand was stronger . Can you talk about kind of what is what is driving there , whether it is some share gains or things that that you are doing differently ?
Speaker #5: Yeah , I'd say throughout 2025 , you know , in terms of looking for opportunities , we believe we have some share gains that we're trying to maintain .
Speaker #5: Our order files throughout Q3 . You know , comparatively , we're lower . But consistent throughout the quarter . And as we move into Q4 , other than the seasonality around that , it still seems to be fairly consistent .
Speaker #5: You know , what we've seen so far .
Speaker #11: Okay . Got it . And then just switching to the distribution side , really nice to see that growth in in general line .
Speaker #11: You talked earlier about sort of you know those still being under some pressure . Can you talk about sort of what is where you are seeing sort of growth in , in the general line business ?
Speaker #2: Yeah . The question is where are we seeing growth in the general line business ? You guys take that .
Speaker #4: Yeah , I think we're seeing growth in the general line again . You know , market share gains in certain product categories . Decking being one of them .
Speaker #4: So we've seen market share gains as some of our competitors or other distributors have exited different categories across the country. We've stepped in and filled those voids, you know.
Speaker #4: And so we've seen market share growth that way . Again , multifamily business . And I and I really think in the door and millwork side , we're starting to see gains .
Speaker #4: And we're moving forward moving that that capacity and our ability there forward thinking .
Speaker #2: It's maybe to Joe's comments is that when you think about , you know , general line and Joe mentioned this earlier , the the new SKUs that that that are showing up and the skew complexity that that comes from our , our suppliers is something that we're we enjoy .
Speaker #2: We're really good at . And so we certainly have experienced that in 25 . And we're expecting that in 26 as well . So as they bring out new products that creates , I think , a really an important opportunity and responsibility for us to not only serve our customers but serve our suppliers as well .
Speaker #2: So I think that's the other component on on the general line that , you know , continues to to play in our favor and , and we expect that again going forward as well .
Speaker #11: Got it . No . That's helpful . I'll I'll turn it over . Good luck .
Speaker #1: Thank you. This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Nathan Jorgensen for any closing remarks.
Speaker #2: We appreciate everyone joining us on our call this morning for our update . And thank you for your continued interest in supporting Boise Cascade Co .
Speaker #2: Please be safe and be well . Thank you .