Q3 2025 Jackson Financial Inc Earnings Call
Speaker #1: Hello everyone , and welcome to the Jackson three Q Earnings Call . My name is Charlie and I'll be coordinating the call today .
Speaker #1: You will have the opportunity to ask a question at the end of the presentation . If you'd like to register a question , please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad .
Speaker #1: I'll now hand the call over to our host , Liz Werner , Head of Investor Relations , to begin , Liz , please go ahead .
Speaker #2: Good morning , everyone , and welcome to Jackson's third quarter 2020 earnings call . Today's remarks may contain forward looking statements which are subject to risks and uncertainties .
Speaker #2: These statements are not guarantees of future performance or events and are based upon management's current expectations . Jackson's filings with the SEC provide details on important factors that may cause actual results or events to differ materially .
Speaker #2: Except as required by law , Jackson is under no obligation to update any forward looking statements . If circumstances or management's estimates or opinions should change .
Speaker #2: Today's remarks also refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures . The reconciliation of those measures to the most comparable US GAAP measures is included in our earnings release .
Speaker #2: Financial supplement and earnings presentation , all of which are available on the Investor Relations page of our website at investors . Presenting on today's call are our CEO , Laura Prieskorn and our CFO , Don Cummings .
Speaker #2: Joining us in the room are our president of Jackson National Life Insurance Company , Chris Raab . Our president of PBM , Craig Smith .
Speaker #2: And the head of asset liability Management , Brian Walter . At this time , I'll turn the call over to our CEO , Laura Prieskorn .
Speaker #2: Thank you . Liz . Good morning , and thank you for joining our .
Speaker #3: Third quarter 2020 earnings call . I'll begin by reviewing the quarter's positive results , including strong sales growth in diversification . Robust capital generation and consistent capital return to shareholders .
Speaker #3: Following my remarks , our CFO , Don Cummings will discuss our financial performance and further detail . Beginning with slide three , Jackson's third quarter performance highlights our strong earnings diversification and healthy book of business .
Speaker #3: Adjusted operating earnings of $433 million increased over 20% from the year ago quarter , led by our Retail Annuities business . Retail annuities continued to see significant growth and diversification from investment spread income , as well as solid fee income from nearly $240 billion of separate account value .
Speaker #3: Retail annuity sales for the quarter reached their highest level . Since we became an independent company , exceeding $5 billion for the quarter , driven by growth in Rila and traditional variable annuities .
Speaker #3: Last quarter , we highlighted the launch of Jackson's market linked Pro three and Market Link Pro Advisory three , which we refer to as Rila 3.0 .
Speaker #3: The positive reception to Rila 3.0 , combined with a robust Rila market , resulted in record sales of $2 billion in the quarter , accounting for 38% of overall retail annuity sales .
Speaker #3: We expect Rila to remain a valuable source of growth , providing sustainable investment , spread income and earnings diversification . Our Rila account balance approached $18 billion .
Speaker #3: A 21% increase from the second quarter and a 74% increase from the prior year . While the Rila market continues to evolve and grow .
Speaker #3: We believe our Rila 3.0 product offering provides advisors and their clients with a broad range of index and crediting options and a valuable range of protection levels.
Speaker #3: Jackson's long held focus on product innovation and consumer choice has differentiated us and is highly valued by our distribution partners and their clients .
Speaker #3: Our Rila offerings continue to drive growth in the breadth and depth of our distribution. Since launching Rila 3.0 in May, we've added over 500 new advisors.
Speaker #3: Our new Rila relationship with JPMorgan Chase is one example of accelerating Rila sales through a valued partnership . Traditional variable annuities remain core to our business and accounted for over one half of our third quarter retail annuity sales .
Speaker #3: Variable annuity sales increased 13% from the second quarter , in 8% from a year ago . The growth of variable annuities sold without a lifetime benefit continued , and sales increased 24% for the first nine months of 2025 .
Speaker #3: Year to date variable annuity sales without a living benefit accounted for 38% of Jackson's total variable annuity sales . Importantly , average variable annuity balances increased by $10 billion from the second quarter , supporting an increase in third quarter fee income of 8% quarter over quarter .
Speaker #3: Variable annuity net outflows improved from a year ago and were consistent with strong equity market performance . For the third quarter . Strong investment performance exceeded the impact of net flows by over $7 billion .
Speaker #3: The diversity of Jackson's variable annuity fund offerings remains a valued feature, and for the first nine months of 2025, separate account performance exceeded 13%.
Speaker #3: We continue to believe the asset growth potential investment flexibility and guaranteed income provided by Jackson's traditional variable annuities meet a long term need for millions of Americans , retiring each year .
Speaker #3: This profitable book of business exhibits Jackson's thoughtful product design and disciplined risk management capabilities. Fixed and fixed indexed annuity sales reflect our opportunistic approach to pricing and have contributed to our sales diversification.
Speaker #3: Looking ahead , we expect our recent fixed indexed annuity launch will contribute to future sales growth . The Jackson Income Assurance Suite has an embedded guaranteed minimum withdrawal benefit designed to meet consumer demand for income and protected growth .
Speaker #3: Jackson's fixed indexed products further expand our portfolio of annuity solutions , meeting a wide range of retirement planning goals for advisors and their clients .
Speaker #3: Complementing the growth of our business is the investment expertise and asset growth of our investment manager , PM America . Last quarter , we highlighted PMS additional investment capabilities , which support the competitiveness and profitability of our spread based products in the market .
Our high-quality conservative Investment Portfolio, supporting the spread product business is well positioned with diversification and strong credit quality, a theme throughout the portfolio.
The exposure of our portfolio to commercial office. Loans, and Below investment grade. Securities is less than 2% and 1% respectively.
Given recent headlines on asset quality. It is also important to note that our regional Bank. Exposure is about 1% of our portfolio and we have no material exposure to First brands or tri-color.
Furthermore, our CLA portfolio remains highly rated and well Diversified
Our spread product sales continue to benefit from enhanced asset sourcing capabilities at PPM America, which enabled recent new money, allocation to certain higher yielding asset classes, including Emerging Markets, residential home, mortgages, and investment grade structured securities.
We believe this modest shift in our new money asset allocation, combined with an attractive product lineup, will allow Jackson to maintain a consistent and stable presence in the spread product marketplace.
Before discussing notable items for the quarter, I want to highlight our strong performance in book value per common share.
during the first 9 months of the year, we returned 657 million of capital to shareholders, which has contributed to a modest decrease in adjusted Book value since year end,
Importantly, our share, we purchase activity reduced. The diluted share count driving a 6% increase in adjusted book, value per share to 158.44.
Additionally, our adjusted operating return on common equity for the first 9 months of this year was 14%.
Up from 13% in the first 9 months of last year.
Slide 6, outlines the notable items included in adjusted operating earnings.
Reported adjusted operating earnings per. Share was 6.16 for the current quarter.
4 cents of notable items and the difference in tax rates. From our 15% guidance, adjusted operating earnings per share was 6.15 for the current quarter.
Up 27% from 4.86, cents in the prior Year's third quarter.
This Improvement was primarily due to the growth in spread income noted earlier, as well as the reduction in diluted share count from share repurchase activity.
The only notable item for the current quarter was a 4 Cent negative as limited partnership. Results came in slightly below our 10% long-term assumption
The prior Year's third quarter included, a larger 28 Cent negative impact from this item.
On slide 7, we highlight the diverse and growing new business profile of our retail annuity segment, which achieved 2% growth over last year's strong third quarter and 22% growth from the second quarter of this year.
Our RA product suite delivered record sales of $2.1 billion, up 28% from the prior year's third quarter and 49% compared to the second quarter of this year.
Since its launch in 2021, Riya's assets under management have grown consistently, reaching a record high of nearly $18 billion at the end of the third quarter.
As mentioned earlier, our spread product offerings were further supported by enhanced capabilities at PPM.
resulting in $444 million in fixed and fixed index annuity sales for the third quarter.
We are confident about the future growth potential of our spread business, with strong early momentum from our recently launched fixed indexed annuity Suite of products.
Our sales mix continues to be Capital efficient, which is provided flexibility to allocate additional Capital to spread products as we focus on diversifying our business.
We are pleased with the progress that we've made in building a well, Diversified new business mix since becoming an independent public company.
And we continue to explore opportunities to write higher levels of spread business on a capital efficient basis.
Turning to net flows, the sales. We generated in Ria and other spread products translated to 2.3 billion dollars of non-variable. Annuity, net flows in the third quarter.
Variable annuity net, outflows have been elevated in recent quarters reflecting the moneyness profile of our book.
The Aging of policyholders and some larger past sales years, coming out of the surrender. Period.
On a year-to-date basis. Our surrender rate was flat. Even though strong Equity market returns led to a higher surrender rate in the third quarter.
These strong market returns also resulted in separate account investment performance of nearly 25 billion dollars year to date, exceeding variable annuity net outflows by over 11 billion dollars.
This is driven variable annuity account, value, growth year to date and supported our strong levels of fee income.
Slide 8 highlights pre-tax adjusted operating earnings across our business segments.
In retail. Annuities, we benefited from a favorable environment for spread products and higher levels of fee income.
Like an asset management business retail. Annuity earnings are driven by the level of assets under management.
growing non-variable, annuity net flows and strong separate account returns have increased our average retail annuity AUM to 263 billion up from year end 2024
For the institutional segment, pre-tax adjusted operating earnings were up from the third quarter of last year, reflecting higher spread income from our growing book of business.
Our higher level of new business activity. This year reflects strong demand for spread lending, and our opportunistic approach in the institutional Marketplace.
Our closed block segment reported pre-tax adjusted operating earnings that were up from the third quarter of last year primarily due to higher spread income.
Earnings were down modestly on a sequential basis, reflecting higher levels of mortality.
Of 57 million.
The stability in our non-operating results has significantly improved after moving to a more economic hedging approach in 2024.
Which is also contributed to our consistent Capital generation.
During the third quarter, our hedge results included a 14 million net loss on hedging, instruments supporting our variable annuity and Riya businesses
This loss was primarily from Equity Hedges reflecting S&P returns of about 8% during the quarter and gains on interest rate. Hedges resulting from lower long-term interest rates.
Our Ria business continues to provide a natural offset to the equity risk of our variable annuity guarantees.
This enhances our overall hedging efficiency as higher Equity markets typically result in losses on our variable annuity Hedges while resulting in gains for our Rya. Hedges.
Changes in Market, risk benefits or mrb were driven in part by the same interest rate and Equity Market movements in the quarter leading to a 226 million, gain that more than offset the loss on our hedges.
As a reminder, changes in the MRB relate primarily to our variable annuity business.
And include the impact of equity index, implied volatility, which was a modest benefit during the quarter.
Changes in implied, volatility, do not impact our Brooke Ray mrb measurement since its modified Gap. Methodology uses a fixed volatility, assumption designed to promote, balance, sheet stability,
The reserve and embedded derivative loss of 1.2 billion. During the third quarter, reflects increases in Rio reserves resulting from higher Equity markets, which was largely offset by a gain on our Rya hedges.
Net hedging results for variable annuities also reflect the highly diversified nature of our separate accounts.
Which can lead to differing performance relative to the market in periods where the returns of an index are driven by a subset of companies.
This Dynamic was at play in the current quarter with the underperformance of our separate accounts, relative to certain hedging indices leading to a modest net hedging loss.
It is important to note that this Dynamic plays out in both directions.
And as a result, these impacts have tended to smooth out over time.
In fact, this dynamic produced a modest benefit over the first half of this year.
We believe these results underscore the effectiveness of our hedging program in supporting capital stability and proactively managing the economic risks of our business.
Slide 10 provides a summary of Jackson's high quality variable annuity business, which is differentiated in the marketplace. Enabling us to outperform peers,
In large part, our success can be attributed to our focusing on withdrawal benefits and avoiding more challenging guarantee features.
Jackson also has long been a proponent of providing customers with investment freedom without forcing allocations or managed volatility funds.
This approach is supported by a rigorous fund manager, due diligence, and oversight process.
To ensure a high correlation between separate account assets and the related benchmarks over time.
The strong underlying Fund performance benefits, both our policyholders and Jackson.
Prudent pricing and disciplined product design further mitigate risk and enable agile product launches and repricing actions as market conditions evolve.
We believe our variable annuity products are highly valued in the marketplace, and we remain a consistent product provider for our distribution partners and their clients.
The substantial cash flows generated by our large enforce block.
Combined with extensive policyholder experience data, we aim to enhance our risk management capabilities.
By utilizing Brooke ree. We are able to further protect our book from Market, volatility and hedge, more closely to the economics of our business.
We believe our hedging performance has been proven through recent periods of financial Market stress.
Slide 11 provides context on how our high-quality variable, annuity book and differentiated structure support our economic hedging approach.
The constraint of the cash surrender value floor allows us to align our hedging with the underlying economics of the guarantees.
Specifically, we are focused on mitigating the impact of lower Equity markets and interest rates on these liabilities.
The result is well protected variable. Annuity guarantees at Brooke, Ree.
And stable regulatory capital and distributable earnings at Jackson National Life.
Which is been evident in our strong free Capital generation, free cash flow and capital return over the last 7 quarters.
This structure is beneficial for our management of the Riya business as well.
Under this framework, Riya remains at JNL separate from the variable annuity guarantees.
The Riya business is managed and priced on a standalone basis with capital generation included in jnl's results.
Riya and variable, annuity guarantees have a natural Equity offset, with Riya exposed to upside Equity risk. In variable, annuity guarantees exposed to downside Equity risks,
Variable, annuity guarantees are reserved and capitalized on a standalone basis, under our modified Gap, framework at Brooke, Ree.
And Riya is reserved and capitalized under the statutory regime at JNL without consideration of a diversification benefit.
while there is no reserving, or Capital benefit of the offsetting equity risks,
we are able to realize a hedging efficiency by netting them off through fully settled, internal trades.
Leaving a reduced need for external Equity hedging.
importantly, this benefit would continue even if Rya grew to the point of overtaking variable annuities
From an equity risk perspective.
Simply Shifting the external Equity need from downside protection to upside protection.
We believe this structure is a differentiator that highlights our consistent economic approach and the strong underlying performance of our book.
We remain confident in the quality of our annuity business and our risk management capabilities.
Slide 12 highlights our growing capital generation and free cash flow.
Jackson adheres to an urn, it then pay. It Philosophy for Capital return.
This philosophy is built upon 3 pillars.
The generation of free Capital where we earn it.
The creation of free cash flow, where we pay it and ultimately the return of capital to our common shareholders.
After tax statutory Capital generation was 579 million in the third quarter.
We believe this metric offers helpful insight into the underlying strength of our business and provides the foundation for making capital allocation decisions that balance future growth with the return of capital to shareholders.
Free Capital generation was 459 million in the quarter, reflecting the estimated change in required capital or cow resulting from our strong and diversified new business results during the quarter.
Free capital generation totaled $1.1 billion in the first 9 months of the year and $1.6 billion on a trailing 12-month basis.
This pace is well above. Our 1 billion plus expectation for the full year.
Free cash flow was strong in the current quarter. Once again illustrating the stability of our Capital generation
In the third quarter, 250 million were distributed to the holding company.
After covering expenses and other cash flow items, the resulting free cash flow at the holding company was 216 million in the quarter.
Over the last 12 months, we've distributed nearly 1.1 billion dollars to the holding company and generated free cash flow of nearly 1 billion dollars.
Based on Jackson's market capitalization at quarter end, we have produced a free cash flow yield of about 14% for the trailing 12 months.
Although there are many factors that impact valuation. We believe this metric is a strong indicator of Jackson's value and we will continue to pursue share repurchases while investing in the growth of our business.
The outcome of our strong free Capital generation and growing free cash. Flow allowed us to return, 210 million to come and shareholders in the quarter.
Up 37% from last year's third quarter on a per diluted share basis.
On a 12-month basis, we have returned $805 million, and we are on pace to exceed the top end of our full-year capital return range.
Jackson has now returned, nearly 2 and a half billion dollars to Common shareholders exceeding, our initial market capitalization as an independent public company.
These results reinforce Jackson's robust Capital Generation profile and stable growing cash distributions. Delivering enhanced value to our shareholders.
Slide. 13 summers are growing capital and liquidity position.
The profitability of our enforced business driven by fee income from our variable, annuity base contract and growing spread-based earnings, provided strong, Capital generation during the quarter.
Our capital position, in RBC ratio, at Jackson National Life.
Continues to be less sensitive to equity Market movements with the brook restructure.
The main impacts of equity Market changes is on AUM and future Capital generation, rather than immediate changes in capital or RBC.
This results in the earnings stream at Jackson National Life being like an asset management business.
Consistent with our approach of taking smaller periodic distributions. We distributed 250 million to the holding company during the third quarter,
After considering the impact of this distribution on our deferred tax assets, Jackson's total, adjusted capital, or tax, increase and ended the quarter at 5.6 billion.
Our estimated RBC ratio ended the quarter at 579% and remains well, above our minimum Target of 425%.
We Believe Jackson is operating from a position of strength as we head into the end of the year.
During the third quarter, brewkery continued to operate as expected.
While Equity was down modestly from the second quarter, brooker's capitalization remains well above. Our internal risk management Target that reflects a variety of deep tail scenarios and our regulatory minimum operating Capital level.
During the quarter, there were no Capital contributions to or distributions of capital from Brooke Ree.
Going forward, we will continue to manage Brooke Ree on a self-sustaining basis, given the long-term nature of its liabilities.
Our holding company cash and highly liquid asset position. At the end of the quarter was 751 million.
Which continues to be above our minimum buffer and provides substantial financial flexibility?
This was up from 713 million in the second quarter of this year. Reflecting operating company dividends and capital return to shareholders.
Our third quarter results, demonstrates strong positive, momentum bolstered by a robust balance, sheet and Rising capital, and liquidity levels that firmly position us for continued success.
I'll now turn the call back to Laura.
Thanks, Don in September, we hit our 4-year Milestone as an independent company.
During this time frame, we've worked hard to capture opportunities, to grow profitably. While diversifying our sales, mix and earnings.
Our third quarter results represent another period of excellent operational and financial accomplishments.
As the end of the year approaches will take time to reflect on our valued relationships with our distribution partners. And their clients and continue our shared mission to help hardworking, Americans, protect and grow their retirement savings and income.
Most importantly, we believe our accomplishments and ability to consistently deliver on our promises are only possible through the dedication and hard work of our Associates.
We are truly grateful for all they do at Jackson. And in the communities we call home
At this time, I'll turn it over to the operator for your question.
Thank you. Of course, if you'd like to ask a question, please press star. Followed by 1 on your telephone keypad. If you'd like to withdraw your question, please, press star. Followed by 2 and preparing to ask your question, please. Ensure you are unmuted locally as a reminder that star followed by 1.
Our first question comes from Ryan Krueger of KBW. Ryan, your line is open, please go ahead.
Behavior. Um, you know, it has improved, um, year-over-year. But it, it got, it got more. Um, I guess it it increased in the, in the third quarter from the recent run rate. Can you give some perspective on on what's causing this? I, I assume. It's still just higher lapses. Um, and you know to what what extent you know you you may consider changing your Dynamic lapse assumption given that this has been occurring for, you know, a few years consistently now.
Good morning Ryan. Thanks for the question. I'll turn it to Don to respond.
Hey. Hey Ryan. Good morning. Yeah. So just to give you a little bit of context on policyholder behavior and kind of the level of net outflows that we've been seeing on our variable annuity book. Um, first of all, I think it's important.
To remember that. Um, our surrender rate is sort of an all-in surrender rate as we've talked about on prior calls. So if you decompose that 12%, that we've seen on a year to date basis, it breaks down like about 7% of that is, you know, full surrenders. And then there's 4% which are withdrawals. And that's just simply, uh, customers using, uh, the benefits that they purchase those products for and being able to generate income and retirement. And then the remaining 1% is, you know, related to death benefits. And um, you know, I would
Highlight that just for the quarter. Um you know, we did see a bit more um bit bit of an uptick in the surrender rate, primarily you know driven by the fact that Equity markets were up. And that does tend to influence surrender, activity, because of the moneyness of the contracts.
Um, just over.
The VA performance that we saw in the quarter, which was also...
Markets, uh, was about 25 billion and that, well, offset the, uh, level of net outflows that we're seeing. So, in terms of, um, you know how we think about that from our assumption setting process. First of all, um, you know, we do take a very comprehensive. Look at our assumptions. Every year we complete that work in the fourth quarter and, um,
You know, we're setting assumptions with the long-term nature of our liabilities in mind. So, uh, we do look at our recent experience, but we wouldn't take 1 or 2 quarters of experience and use that simply use that to set our long-term assumption, we would look at our experience over time. Um, having said that, we'll certainly look at the experience we've been seeing over the last couple of years as we update our assumptions in the fourth quarter,
um, and you know, we're we'll we'll publish those results along with our overall fourth quarter results, as well as our art Financial targets for 2026 and we look forward to being able to discuss that
In February.
Thanks 1 follow up on that. I'm, um, I've heard some suggests that there has been some targeted efforts by distribute Distributors to, um, roll older variable annuity contracts into other products when they've been out of the money. And that they have, that may be contributing to the higher lapse rates Beyond, just the pure Market, but also may eventually dissipate, um, once they kind of contacted all of their clients, you know, is, is that something? Do you agree with that? Is that something that you've seen it all? Um, impact the lapse rate?
No, I would say, um, Ryan. It's primarily um, more driven by the market environment and specific, you know, activities that might take place.
Okay, understood. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from Sunni. Kamath of Jeffrey soon. Need your line is open. Please go ahead.
Um, great. Thank you. Uh, just wanted to ask a couple on Capital, um, so first on the RBC Target of, uh, 425. You know, you've been traveling for 12. North of that for a while. Um, you know, my map suggests that if you were to bring that to 425, you know, it would be maybe a billion and a half of excess could be released. Um, I guess at 425 is really the target. What needs to happen in order to bring your RBC back down to that level? Thanks.
Over time rather than some sort of, you know, 1-time, um, outsized, um, upstreaming of capital to the holding company. Um, we believe that we are in a unique position to, uh, continue our efforts, to diversify our book of business, through focusing, on more spread products sales, as I mentioned, in the prepared remarks and that obviously will assume a bit more Capital than um, what we've historically been writing over the years, which is very important in any business and we've seen some of that over the course of this year. So we, we believe that we can both continue to grow our business through diversifying into more uh spread type products uh as well as continuing to return significant levels of capital. But you'll see that ratio come down over time as opposed to 1 um you know sizeable transaction.
Okay. And then I guess my second one um,
Is on the, these closed blocks segments that you have. I mean, it doesn't get a lot of attention. You know, we never get asked about it. Um, I, I'm just curious, what's the Strategic value of of having that? Um, I know it's small but, um, also curious about how much Capital, uh, is supporting those liabilities that are in that segment, thanks.
Yeah, yeah, good question. We we obviously, um, look at the closed block. Um, you know, very, um, frequently and we're comfortable with the liabilities that are there. As you mentioned, it's not a huge portion of our balance sheet. However, we believe it does provide some balance to our overall general account, um, structure and uh, because they're, you know, some lifel liabilities in there along with some annuities and, uh, other blocks of business that came about through some Acquisitions that Jackson completed a number of years ago. So we do, uh, monitor the performance of that block closely. And to the extent we find Opportunities to, uh, better leverage, our Capital. Um, we would we would be prepared to take advantage of those
And how much capital is in that segment.
is it we don't we don't break out the allocations of
Yeah, we don't break out um, to need the allocation of our Capital across the segments, but the liabilities are roughly about uh 20 billion dollars.
All right. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question, comes from Tom Gallagher of evercore, Tom, your line is open. Please proceed.
Uh, good morning. Um, just uh a follow-up question on on hedging. Um, I Heard the comment about how your Rya naturally Hedges part of your VA guarantees, which lowers your need to buy, uh, the quantity of of derivatives in Hedges, you need to buy, um, you have a peer out their Bright House, that used to make the similar point, they eventually hit a limit and the company has struggled since they hit the limit. Um, now I'm sure there are differences, uh, between your book and their book. I, you know, your guarantees look far less risky, quite candidly for my perspective. So that might be 1 of the reasons but curious. Why you won't hit a limit. And if you've spent any time thinking about what you're doing versus what Bright House, uh, is doing just so just so you can at least,
uh,
Clear up any confusion about why, why, why? Your program is fine. Thanks.
Being reserved for and has under a statutory framework, which I think was primarily the problem that you're referring to, which is, you know, the VM 21 construct. So, uh, we're very comfortable that even if the equity risk on Riya were to surpass surpass the equity risk that we have on the vas then you know all that does is just shift the nature of our external hedging. It doesn't mean that we would have to suddenly put up some you know, additional level of Reserves.
Gotcha. That's that's super helpful and clear. That's super helpful. Yeah. That that
That is the my um, just from a follow-up perspective. If there was any impact to the Actuarial, review to Ryan's question.
Would that likely show up in JNL or brewkery in terms of the, um, any, any changes that we would see there?
Yeah. Well, you know as I mentioned we're still working through our um Actuarial assumption review, but my expectation would be that we would see very minimal impacts at JNL. Um, any impact related to our B, VA business would be, you know, sort of below the line and a component of our, uh, mrb
Okay, thanks.
Thank you. Our final question of today comes from Alex. Scott of Barclays. Alex, your line is open. Please go ahead.
hey um I just had a a follow up on you know the same kind of questioning that you just had from Tom and Ryan so on the uh,
On the potential for an impact in Brewkery, you know, is there an impact? Do I take the comments that you made earlier in your script around the self-sustaining nature of the capital in Brewkery to mean that, you know, based on what you're seeing, at least as of today, you know,
Regardless of how that, uh, actuarial review hands out, you don't feel like, you know, there's a risk that you would have to fund any capital into there. Is that a correct way of reading, um, those comments earlier?
Hey Alex. Um, yeah, so my comments earlier were more, um, you know, long term.
We do believe, um, with the given nature of the guarantees in Brewkery, that over the long term, that uh, Brewkery will actually generate capital and be self-sustaining. You know, I don't want to get ahead of our uh, the completion of our actuarial review work. Um,
At this point, you know, we'll, we'll certainly look at it. Um,
And and as I said, when we report first fourth quarter earnings, uh, in our 2026 Financial targets, including our uh Capital return targets for next year will update to you on the status of our uh, or the impact of our actual review.
Understood. Okay, um, and then, I also wanted to ask about, you know, potential reinsurance opportunities out there. I mean,
You know, I think on 1 hand, we're questioning you all about Actuarial studies and so forth. I know, on the other hand, you guys have, you know, expressed a lot of confidence about your your ability to manage vas. I mean, are there are there opportunities out there that you're still considering and looking at around, you know, reinsurance of of other blocks of business to take advantage of of of what you built their
Um, yeah, so, um, you know, we talked a little bit about, um, this on on last quarter's call Alex. And we certainly believe that we have, um, very, um, good expertise in the VA space and with risk management and hedging. And so, you know, to the extent that there were high quality variable annuity blocks that were available that we believe would be complimentary to world.
Might want to look at opportunities to further accelerate, all of the work that we've done since, uh, becoming an independent public company to diversify our book and, you know, that could include, um, reinsurance of potentially some life business or, you know, something along that line, that would be complimentary to the businesses that we already have. But we're certainly aware of what's going on in the marketplace and um,
You know, uh, our monitoring, those kinds of things, uh, close by.
For evaluate, we'd be done in comparison to the value that we receive from sign back—our own shares.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have no further questions registered on today's call or hand back over to Laura preschool for any closing remarks.
Thank you all for your continued interest in Jackson. As you've heard this morning. Our latest results represent another period of excellent operational.
Accomplishment.
We look forward to continuing this discussion and sharing our continued progress on our 2025 targets after the end of the fourth quarter.
Thank you and take care.
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call, thank you so much for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.