Q3 2025 Kinetik Holdings Inc Earnings Call

Speaker #1: Good morning and thank you for attending the Kinetic Third Quarter 2020 results call . My name is Alyssa and I will be your moderator today .

Speaker #1: All lines will be muted during the presentation portion of the call with an opportunity for questions and answers at the end . I would now like to pass the call to your host Alex Durkee Investor Relations .

Speaker #1: Please go ahead .

Speaker #2: Thank you . Good morning and welcome to kinetics Third quarter 2020 Earnings Conference Call . Our speakers today are Jamie Welch , President and Chief Executive Officer .

Speaker #2: And Trevor Howard , senior vice president and chief financial officer . Other members of our senior management team are also in attendance for this morning's call .

Speaker #2: The press release we issued yesterday , the slide presentation and access to the webcast for today's call are available at . Wrc.com . Before we begin , I would like to remind all listeners that our remarks , including the question and answer session , will provide forward looking statements and actual results could differ from what is described in these statements .

Speaker #2: These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve a number of risks and assumptions . We may also provide certain performance measures that do not conform to U.S.

Speaker #2: GAAP . We've provided schedules that reconcile these non-GAAP measures as part of our earnings press release . After our prepared remarks , we'll open the call to Q&A .

Speaker #2: With that , I'll turn the call over to Jamie .

Speaker #3: Thank you . Alex . Good morning everyone . We appreciate you joining us today . Kinetics third quarter results reflect a combination of strong execution across key strategic initiatives and the realities of a challenging commodity price environment , particularly in September .

Speaker #3: While we exited the quarter in line with our operational expectations , the path to get there was not without its complexities . Through it all , our team remained focused and disciplined , executing on what we can control and continuing to advance our long term strategy .

Speaker #3: I'll begin with an update on our strategic initiatives, and then I'll turn it over to Trevor to walk through our financial results and guidance updates in more detail.

Speaker #3: Starting with our strategic projects, I am incredibly proud of our team's work to bring King's Landing to full commercial service in September, adding organic processing capacity in New Mexico.

Speaker #3: The start up of King's Landing presented as we navigated taking over the project post design , engineering and procurement . But pre-construction and our team worked tirelessly to keep the project on track .

Speaker #3: We now have a well constructed plant at a site that will allow for processing capacity expansions with much fewer challenges to contend with .

Speaker #3: King's landing represents a significant step for our Delaware North customers . Even with Waha natural gas price related shut ins and a slower return of previously curtailed volumes .

Speaker #3: We are consistently flowing over 100,000,000 cubic feet per day , which is in line with our original expectations . Over the remainder of the year , we will continue to perform gathering system modifications to segregate sweet gas and direct it to King's Landing while keeping the sour gas flowing to Dagger Draw and Maldemar .

Speaker #3: We look forward to return of Shut in PDP and bringing on the remaining curtailed volumes . We also look forward to enabling our customers to resume development of new wells after more than two years of curtailment and minimal activity .

Speaker #3: We also made quite a bit of construction progress on the pipeline that connects our Delaware north to our Delaware South system . We expect in service during the second quarter of 2026 .

Speaker #3: Beyond the projects currently underway , we have reached FID on the acid gas injection project at King's Landing . We expect to receive the project's permit from New Mexico regulators before year end 2025 , and the project has an expected in service of late 2026 .

Speaker #3: This will enable kinetic to take high levels of H2 and CO2 gas at all of our Delaware North , processing complexes and meaningfully increase our total acid gas capacity from .

Speaker #3: The plans that optimize capital deployment and drilling efficiency for producers , allowing them to drill multiple benches at once , which also eliminates potential parent child well challenges .

Speaker #3: We are meaningfully advancing those discussions , and we believe that the AGI project will strengthen our competitive position and enable us to soon announce a processing capacity expansion at King's Landing .

Speaker #3: Kinetik is well positioned to capitalize on the growing power generation opportunity in the Permian Basin and is actively pursuing innovative, scalable solutions to participate meaningfully in this evolving energy landscape.

Speaker #3: We're excited to announce a new opportunity that further demonstrates our ability to unlock value through strategic partnerships . Kinetic finalized an agreement with Competitive Power Ventures , or CPV , to connect our owned and operated residue gas pipeline network to the 1350 megawatt CPV Basin Ranch Energy Center in Ward County , Texas , that will be used as one of the primary sources of supply for the plant .

Speaker #3: This connection will be made at no capital cost to kinetic , creating another highly efficient and accretive pipeline outlet for our residue gas .

Speaker #3: This arrangement also supports new large scale in basin power generation to meet growing electricity demand in the region . Importantly , this project serves as a blueprint for future collaborations .

Speaker #3: It showcases how we can leverage our infrastructure and relationships to create scalable capital , light solutions that support our long term value proposition .

Speaker #3: As part of our broader strategy to enhance market access and deliver value to our customers . We've made significant progress in continuing to support Permian residue gas takeaway .

Speaker #3: We executed a five year European LNG pricing agreement with Ineos at Port Arthur LNG , beginning in early 2027 . Under this agreement , we will deliver residue gas at a designated interconnect on the Permian Highway pipeline representing the M2 equivalent of approximately half a million tons per annum .

Speaker #3: The gas will be priced monthly based on the European index, providing our customers with diversified exposure to international pricing. This agreement underscores our differentiated service offering and commitment to delivering innovative and value-added solutions in the Permian Basin.

Speaker #3: Additionally , we've expanded our takeaway capabilities by securing additional firm transport capacity to the US Gulf Coast commencing in 2028 . This incremental capacity will significantly enhance our customers access to premium markets and reflects our continued efforts to address critical takeaway constraints at the Waha Hub .

Speaker #3: Together , these commercial arrangements strengthen our ability to support producer growth , improve premium pricing optionality and reinforce our position as a reliable and best in class midstream partner .

Speaker #3: Before I turn over the call to Trevor , I'd like to touch on our financial performance versus expectations for the past four quarters .

Speaker #3: For almost three years , this management team has done a very good job of being able to execute our strategy , fill our residual cryo processing space with new medications and commitments , and beat an outperform our financial expectations and guidance .

Speaker #3: Over the past four quarters, we have stumbled, and we recognize that we need to do better. We've had some challenges as we've integrated the Delaware North system into our business, such as the delays for King's Landing to reach in service.

Speaker #3: Meanwhile , we've endured challenging and turbulent macro commodity and inflationary headwinds this year . These are not excuses . These are just facts .

Speaker #3: The buck stops with us . And as the largest individual owner of this company who has never sold one share , we will absolutely do better .

Speaker #3: And I will not rest until we do. We are forensically analyzing and improving our forecasting assumptions, including evaluating the use of AI tools and machine learning to do so.

Speaker #3: We will challenge ourselves on direct and indirect risks and how to mitigate them . And we will aggressively reduce our controllable costs in all segments .

Speaker #3: Our reputations and credibility are in question , and we will respond with relentless grit , purpose and resolve to address and rectify this situation .

Speaker #3: Looking ahead , we're executing on a robust , multi-year , organic investment strategy that positions kinetic for long term success from advancing strategic projects like King's Landing and the pipeline , to developing scalable solutions in sour gas treating and gas supply for large scale new market based power generation in Texas .

Speaker #3: Our focus remains on delivering differentiated services and unlocking value across our footprint . These efforts , combined with our commitment to discipline , execution and enhanced forecasting , reinforce our long term value proposition and our role as a trusted partner in the Permian Basin .

Speaker #3: Now , I'll turn the call over to Trevor to discuss third quarter results in more detail . And our outlook for the remainder of the year .

Speaker #3: Now , I'll turn the call over to Trevor to discuss third quarter results in more infrastructure

Speaker #3: Thanks , Jamie . And the third quarter . We reported adjusted EBITDA of $243 million . We generated distributable cash flow of $158 million .

Speaker #4: In free cash flow, we had $51 million. Looking at our segment results, our midstream logistics segment generated an adjusted EBITDA of $151 million in the quarter, down 13% year over year.

Speaker #4: contributions, higher cost of goods sold, and higher operating expenses, partially offset by increased volumes across both our Delaware North and South assets.

Speaker #4: Shifting to our pipeline transportation segment , we generated an adjusted EBITDA of $95 million . Total capital expenditures for the quarter were 154 million .

Speaker #4: As we disclosed in our earnings release yesterday . Volume related headwinds combined with producer directed actions from commodity price volatility , the timing of the King's Landing startup and the epic crude sale closing have led us to update our full year adjusted EBITDA guidance range to 965 million to $1.05 billion .

Speaker #4: I will walk through several key factors behind our revised expectations . First , as Jamie discussed earlier . The timing to reach full commercial and service at King's Landing was slower than anticipated .

Speaker #4: In September . While we exited the quarter at our expected operational run rate . The timing and the pace of those volume contributions and the associated margin fell short of our initial expectations .

Speaker #4: The delay in bringing King's Landing fully online versus our original assumption of July 1st reduced full year earnings by approximately $20 million . Second , we've continued to navigate sustained commodity price volatility and macroeconomic uncertainty throughout much of 2025 .

Speaker #4: Our updated outlook now reflects market forward pricing as of October 31st , which represents over a 2% decline from the commodity strip used to revise guidance in August and a 12% decline versus our original assumptions in February .

Speaker #4: Notably , Waha natural gas pricing , which is not included in the figures I just stated , has declined by over 50% since our February assumptions .

Speaker #4: Together , this has negatively impacted full year adjusted EBITDA expectations by nearly $30 million versus our original guidance . Excluding Gulf Coast marketing impacts .

Speaker #4: These lower average commodity prices have had both direct and indirect impacts on our business . Directly , they affect the pricing of our commodity contracts and change our plants product mix , thereby potentially further impacting margin contributions .

Speaker #4: Indirectly , we have seen volatility impact producer decision making with near-term development delays and broader existing production shut ins due to lower prompt month crude pricing and significantly negative natural gas prices .

Speaker #4: It is a confluence of multiple factors that has led to this unexpected situation . In October , there were days where approximately 20% of volumes were curtailed .

Speaker #4: Of which roughly half were from our oil focused producers . A dynamic that we haven't seen since May of 2020 , when WTI crude oil futures contract final settlement price was -$38 per barrel .

Speaker #4: We estimate that full year earnings are negatively impacted from curtailments by approximately $20 million . While Waha prices are expected to remain an issue .

Speaker #4: Takeaway constraints should begin to alleviate by this time next year . Specifically , the industry is set to bring online over 5,000,000,000 cubic feet per day of new takeaway capacity in 2026 and in early 2027 through the following projects .

Speaker #4: The GCC compression expansion , the Blackcomb pipeline and the Hugh Brinson Pipeline . Kinetics marketing entity reserved transportation capacity to the Gulf Coast in 2025 and 2026 to insulate itself from curtailment related loss .

Speaker #4: Gross margin . However , the curtailments were more severe as we saw oil focused producers shut in production . Turning back to commodity prices , indirect influence on our business , we estimate that lower crude and natural gas liquids pricing , as well as negative in-basin natural gas pricing , has deferred or changed our customers development plans across our system , negatively impacting full year 2025 EBITDA by approximately $30 million .

Speaker #4: While the Permian Basin continues to . Demonstrate resilience amid broader commodity price and macroeconomic pressures , it is not immune to the current headwinds .

Speaker #4: Since the beginning of the year , Delaware Basin rig count has declined by nearly 20% , reflecting a more cautious stance from our producers .

Speaker #4: This shift in behavior is also being reflected in industry forecasts . For example , the EIA now projects Permian Basin natural gas volumes to be flat from 2025 to 2026 on an exit to exit basis compared to approximately 3% growth in 2025 .

Speaker #4: Exit to exit and approximately 9% growth in 2025 on a year over year basis . Lastly , our guidance assumed a full year of adjusted EBITDA contribution from crude .

Speaker #4: However , with the divestiture closing in October , kinetic won't receive the benefit for our pro EBITDA for the full fourth quarter . And of course , this will have some impact on our full year results .

Speaker #4: We received over $500 million in cash proceeds from that sale and have used those proceeds to pay down debt , reducing our leverage ratio by approximately a quarter of a turn .

Speaker #4: Over time , we will use some of those proceeds to redeploy into new opportunities , such as the gas injection . Well , that we FID today .

Speaker #4: Taken together , these impacts led us to revise 2025 adjusted EBITDA guidance to $985 million at the midpoint versus our previous guidance in August .

Speaker #4: Despite the numerous factors impacting 2025 results and near-term estimates expectations , we remain confident in our long term strategy and the value creation potential of our organic growth initiatives .

Speaker #4: Turning to capital guidance, we are tightening our full-year range to $485 million to $515 million, given our heightened visibility with two months of the year remaining and the FID of our Kings Landing asset gas injection project.

Speaker #4: Before we open the line for Q&A , let me briefly touch on our capital allocation priorities . Our strategy remains firmly anchored in creating long term shareholder value .

Speaker #4: While maintaining flexibility for disciplined capital deployment . Since kinetics inception in February 2022 . We've delivered double digit adjusted EBITDA and free cash flow growth , meaningfully delivered the balance sheet , and returned nearly $1.8 billion to shareholders since the merger .

Speaker #4: Today, we're building on that momentum with one of the largest processing footprints in the Delaware Basin and advancing strategic projects like the pipeline, sour gas trading, and capital-light reinvestment opportunities.

Speaker #4: All at attractive mid-single digits set of multiples . These initiatives , combined with our current total shareholder yield of nearly 11% , underscore our commitment to delivering both near-term results and long term value .

Speaker #4: Looking ahead , we see a clear path to long term value creation through our short cycle strategic project backlog supported by a conservatively leveraged balance sheet , and continued shareholder returns via dividend growth and share repurchases .

Speaker #4: This disciplined approach positions kinetic for sustainable growth and a compelling long term value proposition . And with that , we can now open up the line for Q&A .

Speaker #1: We will now begin the question and answer session . If you would like to ask a question , please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad .

Speaker #1: Again , that is star one to queue for questions . If for any reason you would like to remove your question from the queue , you may press star two for those using a speakerphone , please remember to pick up your handset before asking your question .

Speaker #1: We ask that you limit yourself to one question and one follow up , after which point you may rejoin the queue . We will now take our first question from the line of Brandon Bingham with Scotiabank .

Speaker #1: Please go ahead .

Speaker #5: Hey . Good morning . Thanks for taking the questions here . Wanted to just start on the producer delays . If we could , and the release , it sounds like they are shorter term in nature .

Speaker #5: Just trying to gauge maybe the impact to next year . Are these kind of early 26 pops that you expect ? Do you think there incremental to 26 development schedules ?

Speaker #5: Or maybe they're replacing some pops that got pushed into 27 . Is knock on impacts . Just trying to get a sense as to , you know , where 26 might be headed from a producer development standpoint .

Speaker #3: And it's Jamie . Thanks for the question . So let's deal with what we outlined in our both prepared remarks and in our press release .

Speaker #3: So we're talking about delays as it relates to expected turn in line activity during the fourth quarter of this year . So we've seen things move from September .

Speaker #3: Now into late November , which is now past sort of the expected maintenance season . And into December . So it's it's not a we've probably seen maybe one move into early 2026 , but not really that significant relative to I think things we've told you previously .

Speaker #3: So it's more about moving things within the quarter , which obviously have a knock on impact . You move something 30 days , you've moved one third of your quarter , you move it 60 days , you move it .

Speaker #3: Two thirds of your quarter . If you're going to hold , you know , if you're if everyone's going to look at a annualized $1.2 billion and say , okay , that's 300 million for a quarter .

Speaker #3: But now we've moved, turned in line activity that obviously has an impact, right? That's the easiest way to think about it.

Speaker #5: Okay , great . That's just so just to clarify , it sounds like it's it's not necessarily moving things into 26 . It's just delayed within the quarter .

Speaker #5: So most of the benefit happens in 26 .

Speaker #3: Yes . .

Speaker #5: Okay . Great . And then just one more question . I heard or read some articles recently that one of your larger customers up in the Durango system area was having a lot of success in the ISO formation .

Speaker #5: And I was just kind of curious , you know , what you're hearing or seeing up there and just kind of the development expectations outside of the commodity price volatility , it just sounds like some of those formations are stronger than maybe most would anticipate .

Speaker #6: Hey , Brandon , this is Chris . No , thanks for the question . Look , the northwest shelf is an exciting area for our producers up there .

Speaker #6: The geology is good . You know , given the price environment , they're still activity in that area . And so what I would say is we see activity , we have the capabilities to provide sour gas takeaway , which is critical in that area .

Speaker #6: And we're excited to continue to grow with our producers on the Northwest Shelf .

Speaker #4: The other thing that I would add , just following on Chris's comments , is we've seen pretty robust MP , M&A activity up there , which generally portends development once the E&P gets their hands around the specific asset .

Speaker #4: So that's one dynamic that we're seeing on the northwest shelf . Another dynamic that we're seeing is , is that some of the the management teams or private equity companies that have flipped in 23 and 24 have returned , and they've been getting pushing the frontier of the Delaware Basin up on the shelf right into our asset footprint .

Speaker #4: So nothing to report just yet . It's early days , but some nice green shoots for incremental development that we were not expecting 15 months ago when we acquired the asset .

Speaker #3: Hey , Brandon , it's Jamie . Not that this was exactly the question or the the response to your question , but this is one of the reasons why the AGI for us was so important .

Speaker #3: Sequencing is everything for the northern Delaware , and we looked at this and we said , okay , now we have this wonderful new King's Landing plant .

Speaker #3: It can deal with sweet gas . It's got a 600 GPM unit on the GPM , a mean unit , but it's limited as to what it can take .

Speaker #3: What we really need and what we really see is the need for the sour gas and our ability to basically treat it . And process it .

Speaker #3: And that obviously brought that was sort of the advent of bringing forward the AGI even ahead of a King's Landing to .

Speaker #5: Awesome . Very helpful . Thank you .

Speaker #1: Thank you . The next question is from the line of Gabe Moreen with Mizuho . Please go ahead .

Speaker #7: Hey , good morning everyone . If I can ask Jamie , maybe just staying on 2026 . Bigger picture . Clearly you laid out some long term targets for growth over the next couple of years .

Speaker #7: I'm just wondering how you're viewing 2026 . Kind of fitting within those contexts , given kind of the push and pull here , the commodity backdrop and producer plans .

Speaker #7: So maybe if you can just talk about that a little bit.

Speaker #3: Yeah , sure . Gabe , and thanks for the question . Look , I think like everybody in the context of both our peer group and our producers , we're all going through the planning and budgeting phase right now as to 2026 , no one quite has a crystal ball on exactly how this is all going to look .

Speaker #3: Look forward as it relates to commodity prices and sort of geopolitical impacts . Obviously , I think , you know , if I look at my dear friend case , Van Hoff's most recent Stockholder's letter , you know , he's he gauges it as a yellow right now on a traffic light system .

Speaker #3: And I think that's sort of right . So 26 is for us . We're trying to to discern exactly the level of activity .

Speaker #3: And obviously we'll report back with our guidance in , in February . More most importantly , the framework that we obviously had historically articulated , King's Landing is now online .

Speaker #3: So if you just tick through the important elements and then I'm going to give you the qualifier , King's Landing online for a full year .

Speaker #3: The triple C will be online for eight months , nine months . Something in that sort of zip code you have NGL contract expirations , of which there are two .

Speaker #3: You will have obviously cost reductions . The negatives will be that you will no longer have epic , and you have this question mark on the level of activity in the context of overall development and drill .

Speaker #3: Drill plans for producers . That's the way to think about it . There's both good and there's elements which are epic , as is sort of an unknown .

Speaker #3: And then there is the question mark with respect to producer activity.

Speaker #7: Thanks , Jim . We appreciate those comments . And maybe if I can just ask a little bit of a multi-part follow up on the natural gas moves you've made .

Speaker #7: First , on getting capacity on the Permian egress pipe in 28 . Is that a question of alleviating Waha exposure ? Because you're getting , you know , increase from your producers ?

Speaker #7: And did you think about taking an equity stake in the pipe like you've traditionally done with some other investments ? And on the LNG strategy ?

Speaker #7: I'm just curious whether that is something you've been reverse inquired about for the part of customers , or is that something that you really just see as allowing you to compete better for additional packages of gas as they come up here ?

Speaker #3: Great question . A series of questions . So let me just deal with the first . We're simply a contract counterparty . We on this particular pipeline .

Speaker #3: And as it's expected in service in 28 , we have now today when we look at our Delaware South system from for most or many of our customers , we have been able to offer them egress with Gulf Coast pricing , as we have moved north into with Durango or Delaware North , as we obviously now call it .

Speaker #3: And obviously with King's Landing coming online , we are now offering that opportunity for those customers . There is a lot of interest in taking incremental capacity .

Speaker #3: So you look at how much capacity you have and you realize we actually need some more because the overall demand is so high , so Kendrick and the commercial team went and secured some more additional capacity , which we know is needed on the LNG side .

Speaker #3: It has been a topic of conversation around our around our leadership team for some time . If you go to the from a Waha to a Houston ship channel , price point , it clearly we can see the overall premium step up and we have seen it in the early days where it was not as attractive .

Speaker #3: And obviously the last couple of years it has been highly attractive . A further step out has been obviously on the LNG side , and we have always talked about , okay , the issues on the LNG side , Gabe , I think are twofold .

Speaker #3: How do you do something that is manageable as far as size and two , that you don't have to take a 20 year contract , right ?

Speaker #3: Something that is manageable in duration that you can say and it's close at hand . So again , I give I give Chris and the commercial guys a lot of credit .

Speaker #3: They scoured the earth . They found a counterparty that had available capacity . We're talking about 16 , 18 months from now . I mean , that's like that's like a like a game changer in the LNG .

Speaker #3: And something when we went to our customers , they were like , wow , this is really good . Short term near-term , I start getting this price point .

Speaker #3: I get my arms around it , and it's a really interesting , I think , step out for us , which I think , you know , we're going to continue .

Speaker #3: We'll learn a lot over the course of this . And , you know , we expect that we may have other customers that will be very intrigued about using this as one of their pricing diversification .

Speaker #7: Thanks , Jamie .

Speaker #1: Thank you . The next question is from the line of Jackie Kolettis with Goldman Sachs . Please go ahead . Hi .

Speaker #8: Good morning . Thank you so much for the time . First , I just wanted to start , you know , commodity exposure has been a major headwind .

Speaker #8: This year. It sounds like some of the project agreements you announced could help hedge that exposure. You know, what is your hedging strategy?

Speaker #8: You know , just throughout the remainder of the year and how do you expect to mitigate that commodity exposure prior to that ? Firm takeaway agreement in 28 .

Speaker #4: Thanks for the question , Jackie . This is Trevor . I would say that for 2025 , we're relatively well hedged across most products between C1 through C5 and WTI .

Speaker #4: As we look forward into 2026 , you know , we've talked about this in the past , but being between 40 to 80% of our equity volumes being hedged on a rolling 12 months , I would say that we are within those targets .

Speaker #4: Just just where we sit with Waha today and then with WTI that has skewed us towards the lower end of that range . But what I would say is , is that we're still well within the range that we have been executing on for several years now .

Speaker #8: Gotta appreciate that color . And then with the FID of the AGI , expected for the end of 26 , how do you expect volumes to ramp from here on King's Landing ?

Speaker #8: One and that , you know , when that uptick should should when we should kind of see that uptick ? And how does that impact the timing for a King's Landing to announcement ?

Speaker #4: Yes . So as Jamie had mentioned , as we think about 2026 and providing explicit directional guidance right now , it's just a little bit too early .

Speaker #4: What I would say is , is that we included this in our prepared remarks . The plants running more than half full right now , we have several packages of gas that are coming online next week .

Speaker #4: And then in 2020 or in December as well . And into 2026 . As we think about a planning for King's Landing to that is a 24 month , potentially a 24 month endeavor .

Speaker #4: And so it's not necessarily how does 2026 shake out , but it's more as we look forward in a multi-year plan with our producer customers .

Speaker #4: And also what Chris and the commercial team are doing with signing new packages of gas that really makes us lean over the edge of when we fid that .

Speaker #4: King's Landing two plant . But given the long lead items , there , it's it's not really a question of what are the next six months look like , but how do we think about 27 as well ?

Speaker #3: Jackie , I would say , look , this comes back to my earlier comment about the AGI . Yeah , there are two elements in the context of the way we think about the North business today .

Speaker #3: The gas are going going into King's Landing is pretty much suite , you know , there's there's a you know , we have a 600 GPM unit , but but that's it .

Speaker #3: So we're not dealing with sour anything like what we do with Marjamaa . And we have ALK which is in fact a large diameter suite gas conduit that can move gas south .

Speaker #3: So when we think about this and the overall likely development activity , which is predominantly sour , we intend to evacuate gas that would right now would you would think about at King's Landing .

Speaker #3: It will go down . You get the AGI in place . You will now convert King's Landing one into a sour gas plant .

Speaker #3: And that's the way to think about the balancing mechanism from a barbell . As you look at how you optimize . Right . I think Trevor has always said E triple C , particularly as it relates to sweet gas , gives us the ability to , in fact be very strategic on the timing for King's Landing to .

Speaker #4: And one thing that I would add is , is Jamie's comment just about development activity being primarily sour . I think that comment more pertains to in and around King's Landing with respect to sweet development .

Speaker #4: We're seeing substantial sweet development along Duke, in line with Jamie's comment that once E is online in the second quarter of 2026, we'll reroute that gas south in order to free up capacity up north.

Speaker #3: Exactly .

Speaker #8: Wonderful . I appreciate the color and thank you for the time .

Speaker #3: You're welcome . Thanks .

Speaker #1: Thank you . The next question is from the line of Jeremy Tonet with JP Morgan . Please go ahead .

Speaker #9: Hi . Good morning .

Speaker #3: Good morning . Jeremy .

Speaker #9: Just wanted to follow up on some of the questions that had been asked so far . I think there was a , you know , a run rate of 1.2 billion EBITDA .

Speaker #9: You know , for exit 25 was was expected at some point in the past . And granted , you know , we're a lot of moving pieces for 26 , as you said .

Speaker #9: But do you still expect to hit that 1.2 at some point run rate during 26 ?

Speaker #3: Sorry , during 2026 .

Speaker #9: Yes , that 1.2 billion EBITDA run rate , if not hitting it year end 25 . Do you expect to hit it during 26 ?

Speaker #3: Well , I think what we what we said , Jeremy , is , you know , let's let's just park for one second 2026 .

Speaker #3: If you know , we're happy to I'm happy to sort of articulate some of the challenges in the context of 2025 and sort of the how you get from 300 to the midpoint , where you have the revised , the revised guide today .

Speaker #3: But I think primarily , you know , if you're going to think about it in just easy terms between the shut ins and the delayed in turn in line activity and epic , you're well over 60% of your difference .

Speaker #9: Okay . Got it . Thank you . And then I guess just any other thoughts you might be able to share ? I guess , you know , there's gives and takes as you lined up there for 26 .

Speaker #9: But just how do you think about the earnings power of the business , the growth profile over time ? You know , when all these kind of , you know , variables normalize out or just from a baseline post that how do you think about the growth EBITDA growth potential for the base business ?

Speaker #3: Look , I think the the overall EBITDA growth , growth potential for the business remains very strong , conditioned on we have continuing activity right in the context of the development side .

Speaker #3: And that's I think , really the question right now , we're all grappling with and as we look forward , now , we would obviously I don't anticipate and I think you heard it in remarks from Trevor earlier .

Speaker #3: You know , we haven't seen oil directed shut in since Covid . This was this was something that none of us would say on the risk equation .

Speaker #3: We were otherwise anticipating . We have lived with Apache in the context of knowing that obviously when Waha goes negative , they shut in .

Speaker #3: Got it ? We knew that rinse , repeat . We play forward . But this one was a complete new world for us to basically have to try to to reconcile .

Speaker #3: And as Trevor indicated in his remarks on some on on some days during October , almost 20% of our overall existing production was actually shut in across the board , of which it was split between , you know , the oil , gas and and the oil directed production .

Speaker #3: And and obviously Apache on Alpine High . So it was it was a really strange situation for October . And obviously we've continued to see it bleed into November .

Speaker #3: Today we've got sorry , yesterday's buys a buck ten on Waha . You know , today is obviously still negative . I mean this isn't building a lot of confidence and that being said October of next year , five BCF a Dave egress comes online .

Speaker #3: Just go look at the forwards . Trevor and I were looking at this this morning . The forwards are step . It's like a step change relative to what we see as far as current natural gas pricing .

Speaker #3: So I think there's a lot of things that the market is probably telling us , one of which is we do expect softer activity .

Speaker #3: We do . And I think that has been that's allowed us and that is what has prompted us to think about a fundamental reset right .

Speaker #3: One of your colleagues said , rip the bandaid off . Well , yeah , we we looked at this and said , okay , this was our chance to basically go and really take a really tough look at the overall elements of our forecast and how we forecast it so that we can come out and not continue to perpetuate the last four quarters , which have been pretty , pretty rough .

Speaker #3: And obviously something that we where , you know , we're not we're not pleased or , or or happy with .

Speaker #9: Got it . Understood . Just the last one if I could , with regards to , you know , thoughts on using the buyback in the future , what type of cadence or framework at this point ?

Speaker #9: You know , given volatility in the stock ? Just wondering , any more thoughts you could share there ?

Speaker #3: Look , I think on the buyback , the buyback fits within capital allocation bucket . Capital allocation bucket gets has three masters that in fact it could satisfy buyback dividend growth capital allocation for organic projects .

Speaker #3: Right . All of the above . And we have to look and see where in fact we think from a long term a from a fundamental value standpoint where we think and what we truly believe to be in the in the best interests of all stakeholders .

Speaker #3: And so we look at that and we sort of make make the decision . And , you know , obviously Trevor will will do that as we go forward .

Speaker #3: And we'll look at the buyback . We'll be looking at the dividend every quarter . We'll be looking at obviously , you know , ongoing investment in in our organic project program .

Speaker #9: Got it . I'll leave it there . Thank you .

Speaker #3: Thank you .

Speaker #1: Thank you. The next question is from the line of Keith Stanley with Wolfe Research. Please go ahead.

Speaker #10: Hi . Good morning . I wanted to dig in a little . The the implied Q4 EBITDA in the new guidance . It's 250 million at the midpoint .

Speaker #10: Can you say what does that what does that assume about King's Landing volumes ? I assume there's no alpine high in there . And then beyond the the shut ins , were there any adverse impacts from the extreme Waha pricing in October as it relates to gas price exposure in that Q4 number ?

Speaker #4: Thanks , Keith . This is Trevor . I , as Jamie had mentioned , when you include just customer volumes , that assumes gas shutting our gas focused shut in , shut in volume , as well as our oil focused producers shut in volume as well as timing delays with respect to given the fact that Waha on certain days in October was -$9 , that caused several producers to push development , as Jamie had commented earlier into later in the quarter , when you couple that with the epic sale that represented over 60% of the revision , lower what I would say is , is that there's that element and then yes , there is an element of of pricing , as you know , a portion of our equity volumes on C1 is priced in basin locally .

Speaker #4: And that that did have a negative impact . As we looked at the forward forecast or as we looked at the fourth quarter forecast versus where we were three months ago .

Speaker #4: So, that certainly had an element to it. I wouldn't necessarily say that that was nearly the impact that we saw than just the loss.

Speaker #4: Gross margin from curtailments across the system .

Speaker #3: And I think , Keith , as far as Jamie , as far as the overall run rate into King's Landing , you know , King's Landing is now at that point where we're turning around individual compressor stations and basically bringing on gas .

Speaker #3: That's that has to this point been curtailed . So there are more . There is more to happen . I think there are another couple , if I'm not mistaken , or at least one over the course of the next 4 to 6 weeks , that's likely to happen .

Speaker #3: So that will bring more volume on . And then it's going to be a question of , okay , because as the oil focused producers , both in the North and in the South , we've had a shut in production from both categories and therefore the question is , okay , are they going to return ?

Speaker #3: And if so , what's that timing look like ?

Speaker #10: That's helpful to confirm that when you say over 60% is explained by those factors , that's the difference the new guidance and the 300 million quarterly rate .

Speaker #3: Yeah , exactly . That's right . Exactly .

Speaker #10: Okay . Second question how how are you thinking about Recontracting on TNF in light of recent industry developments ? You have speedway being built , energy transfer saying last night they might convert an NGL pipe to gas service .

Speaker #10: Does it make sense to try and recontract some of your expirations now and do shorter term deals ? Or would you wait until they actually expire ?

Speaker #3: I think Keith , it's Jamie . I think the following 2026 is the first time that we sort of get to the point where we've got expirations , and we are obviously very much aware of the current market dynamic .

Speaker #3: I think , yes , even with whether you do a conversion , you're obviously adding Speedway . You're obviously I think there's an expectation that there will be less production .

Speaker #3: So I think still the overall bias for TNF rates will be in favor of the seller, right? And there's a lot of infrastructure that is being built that will need to be filled up.

Speaker #3: So I think from our vantage point we don't see any changes to look , we will deal with this over the passage of 2026 when we as we get to it and we are , you know , as I said , I think our viewpoint is that the market dynamic will not change between now and then .

Speaker #3: And we still see this being a very attractive opportunity for us .

Speaker #10: Thank you .

Speaker #1: Thank you. The next question is from the line of Michael Bloom with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

Speaker #11: Hi. Thanks. Good morning, everyone. I wanted to apologize for doing this, but I wanted to go back to the Waha issue for a second.

Speaker #11: Just more of a clarification . I think for me . So you've secured some additional capacity to the Gulf Coast in 2028 . So what exactly are you doing to manage your exposure between now and then ?

Speaker #3: So we have our existing capacity today . We have more capacity next year . And then we have this new tranche of capacity which will come on which comes on for 2028 .

Speaker #3: So we're already at you know , we have always been actively managing it . And we're looking forward in the context of how we look at the overall needs of our customers .

Speaker #3: And what that overall expectant growth rate is . As far as the amount of volume that wants to be settled at a Gulf Coast price .

Speaker #3: So we are already , I mean , we've got capacity , as you know , and we've we've said that repeatedly . And so we manage it .

Speaker #3: And this will just be another tranche that we will basically add to our overall portfolio .

Speaker #11: Okay . Got it . And then maybe on a related item and you kind of you've kind of hinted to this in your prepared remarks , I think .

Speaker #11: But you had talked in the past about an in-basin power project with some of your producer customers as a way to manage some of this Waha exposure.

Speaker #11: Can you give us an update on where that stands today ?

Speaker #3: Sure . So we have continued to obviously talk to to our upstream customers . I think it wouldn't surprise anyone to think that in the current environment , where capital is being is , I think being heavily scrutinized , that this is a nice to have for them versus a need to have .

Speaker #3: I think we look at it and say , this is very important for us to to , in fact , help us address controllable costs .

Speaker #3: Obviously , electricity for us is a has been a rising cost over the course and passage of 2025 . And so we continue to to evaluate it .

Speaker #3: I think look more to come . We show I think we show it in our presentation materials that it's active development . We've actually , you know , we're getting all of the equipment organized .

Speaker #3: I think there will be more to communicate to everybody over the passage of the next short time period .

Speaker #11: Thank you .

Speaker #3: You're welcome .

Speaker #1: Thank you. The next question is from the line of Soumya Jain with UBS. Please go ahead.

Speaker #12: Hi . Good morning . Thanks for taking my questions . Could you provide more color on the data center related infrastructure investments ? You might be seeing across the New Mexico border ?

Speaker #12: And how kinetic might be positioned to capture that market ? I know we recently saw Oracle and OpenAI announce a data center campus planned in southern New Mexico , and that will probably use Permian gas .

Speaker #12: So how might Kinetic's current footprint facilitate that sort of project and how could sour gas come into play ?

Speaker #3: Thanks for the question . I think I would look at your at look at the the data center opportunity for us as being one where we have the ability to connect our residue gas pipeline network into a power generation source dedicated to a potential data center or large demand side customer .

Speaker #3: Obviously , we've seen there's a lot of projects . As many of you know , in the TEF , the , the Texas Energy Fund , that obviously are looking to get to FID .

Speaker #3: One project was obviously the CPV project . We provide one of the main gateways for gas to go to a 1350 megawatt plant that is now broken ground and expected to be in service in 2029 .

Speaker #3: We believe that there will be other opportunities for us like that that will then not only provide us connectivity , because we'll be building out our pipeline network , but also provide us the opportunity to deliver and supply gas , whether it's in the form of us as kinetic or our customers that may sit behind our plant , our processing facilities .

Speaker #3: So I do think there is a lot of interesting , you know , stay tuned . It will sort of there'll be a lot more discussion on this .

Speaker #3: These particular topics . But this one was sort of the most immediate . It just we just got it completed . We've been working on this for two years or something .

Speaker #3: So it's been a long time coming . But I think there are some pretty interesting opportunities . And we get approached by many where there are many people that are approaching us on the PowerGen side that want to do large scale gas fired ccgt .

Speaker #3: .

Speaker #6: And so this is Chris. A lot of our residue gas infrastructure that's owned and operated is in the southern Delaware.

Speaker #6: We've been talking to many parties. One of them that was publicly announced recently is the Landbridge Energy deal adjacent to Delaware Link.

Speaker #6: So we're having conversations there . So again , we'll see which ones completely make FID . But we are having conversations , conversations with a number of folks like Jamie alluded to .

Speaker #12: Great. Thank you. And then I understand that many of the customers you gained from the Durango acquisition are private. So how have you seen drilling activity in the Permian vary between private and public producers?

Speaker #12: And as you develop your footprint in Delaware , North , what sort of customers are you seeing more traction with down the line ?

Speaker #4: Thanks for the question . This is Trevor . What I would say is , is that the private producers that we've seen have been , I'd say a little bit more price sensitive , particularly in this current environment than some of the publics .

Speaker #4: You know , they're not putting out multiyear production targets . And so they tend to be , again , a little bit more volatile with respect to the ups and the downs .

Speaker #4: However , what we have seen just with experience , we saw this during Covid is , is that , you know , as as crude lifted off the bottom , they were the first to pick the rigs back up and be very aggressive , particularly one of our customers .

Speaker #4: Large customers up there . So I would say just that is just a general macro comment that we're seeing with respect to what we're seeing from customers up north .

Speaker #4: I'd say it's a nice mix of both the private equity back or private companies that are aggressively moving up their to expand the play .

Speaker #4: And also seek inventory . Given that it's it's pretty competitive . It's extremely competitive down towards the state line for someone to go pick up inventory .

Speaker #4: The other thing that we're seeing is , is that we're seeing some of the publics that have historically been more focused at the state line or in in Texas , push further north , just given what they're seeing from , well , results across all formations .

Speaker #4: So it's a pretty attractive . And this is part of our thesis that we have with Durango . It's a pretty attractive development that we're seeing right now .

Speaker #4: And it's a multiyear strategy that we have here in order to kind of continue to build this beachhead position and capture a lot of market share as the play continues to move further north east and west .

Speaker #6: And , Tommy , we're still . This is Chris . We're still seeing the dynamic , too . You asked about northern Delaware .

Speaker #6: You go to the southern Delaware where if there's acreage that some of the publics don't want to drill , we're seeing some of the privates farm that out and pick that up and drill that .

Speaker #6: So there's still that dynamic going on . So there's a good mix of development . We're seeing activity from private . So that's continuing to happen on our system .

Speaker #12: Okay . Great . Thank you .

Speaker #1: Thank you . This will conclude the question and answer portion of today's call . I would now like to turn the call back to Jamie Welch for any additional comments .

Speaker #3: Thank you everyone for your time this morning . And we look forward to continuing our dialogue and engagement with you over the coming days , weeks , and months .

Speaker #3: Thanks .