Q3 2025 Sabra Health Care REIT Inc Earnings Call

Speaker #4: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Today's conference call will begin momentarily. You will be placed back on music hold until then.

Speaker #4: Thank you for your patience .

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Speaker #4: Good day everyone . My name is John . And I will be your conference operator today . At this time , I would like to welcome everyone to the Sabra Health Care REIT, Inc. third Quarter 2020 earnings call .

Speaker #4: All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise after the speakers remarks , there will be a question and answer session .

Speaker #4: If you would like to ask a question during this time , simply press star , followed by the number one on your telephone keypad .

Speaker #4: And if you would like to withdraw your question , press star one again . I would now like to turn the call . The call over to Lukas Hartwich EVP , finance .

Speaker #4: Please go ahead . Mr. Hartwich .

Speaker #5: Thank you . Good morning . Before we begin , I want to remind you that we will be making forward looking statements in our comments and in response to your questions concerning our expectations regarding our future financial position and results of operations , including our earnings guidance for 2025 and our expectations regarding our tenants and operators and our expectations regarding our acquisition , disposition and investment plans .

Speaker #5: These forward looking statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially , including the risks listed in our form 10-K for the year ended December 31st , 2024 .

Speaker #5: As well as in our earnings press release . Included as exhibit 99.1 to the form 8-K . We furnished to the SEC yesterday .

Speaker #5: We undertake no obligation to update our forward looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances , and you should not assume later in the quarter that the comments we make today are still valid .

Speaker #5: In addition , references will be made during this call to non-GAAP financial results . Investors are encouraged to review these non-GAAP financial measures , as well as the explanation and reconciliation of these measures to the comparable GAAP results included on the financials page of the investor section of our website at Sabra Health Care REIT, Inc. .

Speaker #5: Our form 10-q earnings release and supplement can also be accessed in the investor section of our website . And with that , let me turn the call over to Richard Matros CEO , President and Chair of Sabra Health Care REIT, Inc. .

Speaker #6: Thanks , Lucas , and thanks , everybody for joining us . I'll start by making some comments on our shop portfolio . So the growth of our shop portfolio has exceeded our expectations .

Speaker #6: And now stands at approximately 26% of our portfolio . As a result of that , we had set we had publicly set a target of increasing our shop from 20 to 30% .

Speaker #6: We're now setting a new target of setting our shop from where it is now at 26% to 40% . And as we get closer to that , we'll reset target again , cash NY growth was a solid 15.9% excluding the 16 x holiday properties included in same store .

Speaker #6: And with those in same store was still a solid 13.3% . We believe the performance of the 21 facilities in transition had bottomed out in July .

Speaker #6: We saw a really nice improvement in August and even stronger improvement in September . So we look forward to that portfolio continuing to stabilize and to contribute to earnings growth going forward .

Speaker #6: We will exceed the high end of our investment targets . Originally , our investment target was 4 to 500 million . We will exceed the 500 .

Speaker #6: In addition to that , the pipeline continues to be robust and we'll be working on deals diligently . Obviously , through the end of the year , which will allow us to get 20 20 , 26 off to a much stronger start .

Speaker #6: And should bode well for volume next year . Our EBITDA rent coverage and all asset classes increased as they have been in the past and in the past two quarters .

Speaker #6: Sniff occupancy and skill mix continues to increase . Our top ten had its best showing yet . Our skilled exposure dropped below 50% for the first time , where we're really focused on having a very well balanced portfolio between skilled nursing and senior housing .

Speaker #6: With senior housing , obviously being shop specifically being a much stronger driver of earnings growth than the triple net portfolio . The regulatory environment for skilled nursing remains stable .

Speaker #6: Leverage came in below five times, and Italian Darren will both provide details on our shop performance. Talya.

Speaker #7: Thank you Rick . First , I want to say something and that is this is my last earnings call . At Farnborough . So before I begin my remarks , I want to thank everyone for following and supporting Sabra for the past 15 years .

Speaker #7: As of the third quarter , Sabra managed senior housing portfolio , contributed nearly 26% of our total annualized cash . NOI as recent acquisitions contributed to Sabre's expanded exposure to managed senior housing and reduced Sabra skilled nursing exposure below 50% .

Speaker #7: During the quarter . Sabra invested 237 million in managed senior housing , including 20 million for the acquisition of the operations of four leased senior housing properties .

Speaker #7: In addition , during the third quarter , Sabra was awarded an additional $124 million in managed senior housing investments , which closed after quarter end subsequent to quarter end .

Speaker #7: Sabra pipeline of acquisitions remained strong , with an additional 121 million of awarded deals , not including the acquisition of the operations of a leased senior housing community for an additional 14.5 million , all of which are expected to close later this year , or in early 2026 .

Speaker #7: Closed plus awarded deals in 2025 . Total more than $550 million . We continue to see high quality properties coming to market and while competition for assets is real , pricing has remained reasonable , allowing Sabra to continue to be competitive .

Speaker #7: The full impact of acquisitions from the first half of the year and the partial impact of third quarter closings , resulted in continuing positive momentum in the portfolio .

Speaker #7: Cash , NOI and cash NOI margin were up 18.6% and 90 basis points , respectively , on a sequential basis for the total managed portfolio , including Non-stabilized communities and joint venture assets at share .

Speaker #7: Further occupancy increased 60 basis points to 86.8% and rev per rose 4.3% . Both sequentially . In the total managed portfolio , excluding Non-stabilized communities and those held for share , underscoring the quality of the properties in which Sabra has been investing .

Speaker #7: The development of new senior housing remains in a lull, suggesting that the current supply-demand equation will continue for some time. Now I will turn over the call to my colleague, Darren Smith, to discuss Sabra.

Speaker #7: Same store portfolio, operating results.

Speaker #8: Thank you , Talia Sabra . Same store managed senior housing portfolio including joint venture assets at share and excluding Non-stabilized assets . Continued its strong performance in the third quarter .

Speaker #8: The key numbers are revenue for the quarter grew 5.4% year over year, with our Canadian communities growing 10.2% in the same period.

Speaker #8: Third quarter occupancy in our same store portfolio was up 110 basis points to 86% . Notably , our domestic portfolio occupancy increased 90 basis points to 82.6% , while our Canadian portfolio was up 150 basis points to 93.1% over the same period , and marking the sixth consecutive quarter where occupancy has been above 90% .

Speaker #8: Report in the third quarter of 2025 increased 3.4% year over year , while in our Canadian portfolio report grew 5.8% over the same period .

Speaker #8: While RevPAR and occupancy continued to grow . Export remained relatively flat . Only increasing 30 basis points across the same store portfolio . Cash NOI for the quarter grew 13.3% year over year in the same store portfolio , excluding the 16 properties in the same store portfolio .

Speaker #8: Formerly operated by Holiday . Same store cash , NOI grew 15.9% , while in our Canadian communities , cash NOI for the quarter increased 20.2% on a year over year basis , demonstrating the impact of operating leverage that higher occupancy brings industry tailwinds remain strong .

Speaker #8: Senior housing communities continued to gain occupancy while operators balance rate and occupancy to maximize revenue with cost structure stable and revenue increasing . Cash NOI and margin continue to grow .

Speaker #8: Our net-leased, stabilized senior housing portfolio continues to do well, with sequentially improving rent coverage, a reflection of continued strong operating results.

Speaker #8: And with that , I will turn the call over to Michael Costa Sabres Chief Financial officer Thanks , Darren .

Speaker #5: For the third quarter of 2025.

Speaker #9: We recognized normalized FFO per share of $0.36 and normalized FFO per share of $0.38 . Year to date through September 30th , normalized FFO per share was $1.09 and normalized AFFO per share was $1.12 , representing an increase of 5% and 4% , respectively , over the same period in 2024 .

Speaker #9: In absolute dollars , normalized normalized FFO and normalized Af0 totaled $88.6 million and $92.2 million this quarter , respectively . Cash rental income from our triple net portfolio decreased $3.5 million from the second quarter , while cash NOI from our managed senior housing portfolio increased $4.7 million for a net sequential increase of $1.3 million .

Speaker #9: The decrease in cash rental income was primarily due to a $1.4 million decrease from transitioning four previously triple net lease senior housing facilities to our managed senior housing portfolio during the quarter, a $1.2 million decrease related to facilities sold late in the second quarter and during the third quarter, and a $600,000 decrease in percentage rents.

Speaker #9: As we noted in last quarter's call, percentage rents were elevated during the second quarter, while the third quarter was closer to the historical trend.

Speaker #9: These decreases were partially offset by annual rent escalators on leases accounted for on a straight line basis , which improved normalized AFO . But do not have an impact on normalized FFO .

Speaker #9: Cash NOI from our managed senior housing portfolio totaled $30.1 million for the quarter, compared to $25.3 million last quarter. This $4.7 million increase was primarily the result of investment activity completed during the quarter, including $1.9 million from the aforementioned transition of four previously triple net lease senior housing facilities.

Speaker #9: This transition also resulted in the write-off of $9.2 million of straight-line rent receivables and $1.2 million of lease termination expense, both of which have been backed out of normalized FFO and normalized FFO.

Speaker #9: Interest and other income was $12.7 million for the quarter , compared to $10.3 million last quarter . This increase was primarily due to a $2.8 million lease termination income , recognized as a result of terminating the Genesis leases , and has been backed out of normalized FFO and normalized FFO .

Speaker #9: Cash interest expense was $26.7 million , compared to $25.8 million last quarter . This increase is due to higher borrowings under our revolving credit facility to fund recent investment activity .

Speaker #9: Additionally, non-cash interest expense increased by $500,000 from the previous quarter, primarily related to the repayment of our 2026 bonds and entering into our new five-year term loan this quarter.

Speaker #9: Recurring cash G&A was $9.1 million this quarter , compared to $9.4 million last quarter . As noted in our earnings release , we have updated our 2025 earnings guidance ranges .

Speaker #9: However , the implied midpoint for both normalized FFO and normalized FFO remain unchanged at $1.46 and $1.50 per share , respectively , consistent with previous quarters , our guidance only includes completed investment , disposition and capital market activity .

Speaker #9: We are also reaffirming the following assumptions included in our previously issued guidance . General and administrative expenses expected to be approximately $50 million , which includes $11 million of stock based compensation expense .

Speaker #9: Ignoring the impact of acquisitions and dispositions, cash NOI growth for our triple net portfolio is expected to be low, single digits in line with contractual escalators.

Speaker #9: Additionally , our guidance assumes no additional tenants are placed on cash basis or move to accrual basis for revenue recognition . Our updated guidance assumes that full year average same store cash NOI growth for our managed senior housing portfolio is expected to be in the mid-teens for context , this quarter , cash NOI for our same store managed senior housing portfolio increased 13.3% year over year and on a year to date basis is approximately 16% .

Speaker #9: Our updated guidance also assumes that cash interest expense is expected to be approximately $104 million . Lastly , our updated guidance assumes a weighted average share count of approximately 244.7 million and 245.7 million for normalized FFO and normalized AFFO , respectively , which is in line with this quarter's weighted average share count .

Speaker #9: After adjusting for the timing of ATM issuances during the quarter . Now briefly turning to the balance sheet , our net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio was 4.96 times as of September 30th of 2025 , a decrease of 0.04 times from June 30th , 2025 , and a decrease of 0.34 times from September 30th , 2024 .

Speaker #9: As of September 30th , 2025 , the cost of our permanent debt was 3.94% and the weighted average remaining term on our debt was 4.4 years .

Speaker #9: With the next material maturity being in 2028 , all metrics that were meaningfully improved through the opportunistic refinancing of our 2026 bonds with a five year term loan during the quarter .

Speaker #9: Additionally , we have no floating rate debt exposure in our permanent capital stack , with the only floating rate debt being borrowings under our revolving credit facility .

Speaker #9: We remain committed to maintaining a strong balance sheet , and this commitment , together with the anticipated future earnings growth of our portfolio , were significant factors in Moody's upgrading our credit rating to Baa3 during the quarter .

Speaker #9: This quarter , we entered into a new $750 million ATM equity offering program , which gives us added capacity to thoughtfully and efficiently finance the numerous investment opportunities we are evaluating during the quarter , we issued $58.5 million on a forward basis at an average price of $18.45 per share .

Speaker #9: After commissions , and in total , we currently have $157.3 million outstanding under forward contracts at an average price of $18.14 per share .

Speaker #9: After commissions . We also settled $165 million of outstanding forward contracts to fund this quarter's investment activity . We expect to use the proceeds from the outstanding forward contracts to close on the investments we have been awarded , and do so on a leveraged , neutral basis .

Speaker #9: As of September 30th , 2025 , we were in compliance with all of our debt covenants and have ample liquidity of approximately $1.1 billion , consisting of unrestricted cash and cash equivalents of $200.6 million .

Speaker #9: Available borrowings under our revolving credit facility of $717.8 million , and the $157.3 million outstanding under forward sales agreements under our ATM program .

Speaker #9: As of September 30th , 2025 , we also had $690.9 million available under our ATM program . Finally , on November 5th , 2025 , Sauber's Board of Directors declared a quarterly cash dividend of $0.30 per share of common stock .

Speaker #9: The dividend will be paid on November 28, 2025, to common stockholders of record as of the close of business on November 17, 2025.

Speaker #9: The dividend is adequately covered and represents a payout of 79% of our third quarter normalized AFFO per share . And with that , we'll open up the lines for Q&A .

Speaker #4: Thank you . At this time , I would like to remind everyone , in order to ask a question , please press star , followed by the number one on your telephone keypad .

Speaker #4: And if you would like to withdraw your question , simply press star one again . We'll pause for a moment to compile the Q&A roster .

Speaker #4: Our first question comes from the line of Farrell Granat with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Speaker #10: Hello . Thank you for taking my question . And first I want to congratulate Talia . Thank you for everything you've done and looking forward .

Speaker #10: I'm sure to not having to be on these earnings calls again . But my first question , but my first question is really around the guidance .

Speaker #10: So as you were saying , we saw strong core , strong core performance , especially in your shop portfolio as well as we've seen these increased acquisitions .

Speaker #10: And I'm just curious how the guidance was maintained . While we were also seeing these increasing core metrics .

Speaker #9: Yeah , I think the easiest answer to that , Farrell , is the fact that the vast majority of these investments that we're closing on this year are in the latter half of the year .

Speaker #9: So they're really going to have a pretty muted impact on 2025 performance . But we look forward to their contribution to 2026 .

Speaker #10: Okay . Thank you . And I was wondering if you could also just give a little bit more color on the core shop portfolio and pretty much the metrics excluding holidays , specifically on the occupancy .

Speaker #10: You can give any color on those transitioned assets and maybe the impacts that are causing the difference between the same store and why.

Speaker #8: Yeah, this is Darren. So the same store NOI is largely being driven down, as we had mentioned before, through holiday.

Speaker #8: The holiday same store Noi is at 5.1% . All the other metrics are very positive .

Speaker #6: Yeah . And we also as a it was a pretty tough comp as well to a year ago . If you go back and look at it .

Speaker #6: So but from our perspective , you know , one of the reasons we , we changed the guidance to reflect mid-teens versus low to mid is because we our confidence continues to grow in the stability and contribution shop .

Speaker #6: But the comp was a big part of it .

Speaker #9: The other thing I'll add to that , Farrell . Sorry . One other thing I'll add to that . You know , our our same store pool , the occupancy there was 86% for the quarter .

Speaker #9: The occupancy for those holiday assets that are included in that same store pool are probably closer to 80% . So you could kind of do the math there .

Speaker #9: On what the non assets are , how they're performing .

Speaker #10: Okay. Very helpful. Thank you so much.

Speaker #4: Your next question comes from the line of Austin Wurschmidt KeyBanc Capital Markets . Please go ahead .

Speaker #11: Great . Thanks . Knowing that the same store pool is a significant chunk of the overall shop portfolio , but can you just share what total portfolio occupancy is ?

Speaker #11: And then also how that compares to where occupy occupancy stands on the recent shop acquisitions .

Speaker #9: Yeah . So we don't disclose that . Austin I would say , you know , the majority of the assets that are not in same store aren't in same store because they haven't been around long enough to be in same store .

Speaker #9: That's , you know , a good chunk of that . And the occupancy in those non same store assets is going to be , you know , largely in line with our same store pool is probably the easiest way to describe it .

Speaker #11: Got it I guess as you continue to to lease up the senior housing you know managed assets , what type of pricing power do you think is achievable for the markets that you're targeting as this becomes , you know , a growing part of of the overall company ?

Speaker #7: Well , I think I think that's a really interesting question . Some of the statistics , Darren provided on . Our Canadian assets is very telling about pricing power , as those assets are have been above 90% occupancy .

Speaker #7: The rate growth there , I think I think Darren said it was over 5% on a Q over Q basis . So I think you can you can extrapolate that over time as suming there isn't major development occurring in this country , which it doesn't look like it's going to be anytime soon , that we're going to our are domestic portfolio will hit will will get get to that level of occupancy where pricing power becomes very relevant and very impactful .

Speaker #7: In addition to operating leverage . .

Speaker #11: Can you share any sense of what annual rent increases in the shop segment could look like heading into '26?

Speaker #7: I think we're looking at mid.

Speaker #8: Mid single digits .

Speaker #11: Thank you for taking the questions.

Speaker #4: Your next question comes from the line of John Cleese with Wells Fargo . Please go ahead .

Speaker #12: Hi . Good morning out there . My first one is on Rick . You made some opening remarks about holiday starting to improve this quarter .

Speaker #12: And maybe I just wanted to hear more about the glide path of those assets . And and what are those operators accomplished so far ?

Speaker #12: I think you noted that occupancy is a little bit lower there. Is there a possibility that there is an additive growth to the overall portfolio?

Speaker #6: Yeah, they will be additive. I think the primary accomplishment to date with all three operators, because they all assessed their piece of the holiday portfolio the same way.

Speaker #6: And that is that they've rightsized and stabilized labor in the buildings because even in IL , there's been some acuity creep and and the , the , the lack of stability in labor or the lack of appropriate staffing of labor prior to the transition .

Speaker #6: Did contribute to the just sort of meandering of occupancy and contributed to greater move outs and move ins because they simply couldn't take care of take care of certain residents .

Speaker #6: So , so job one basically has been accomplished , which is to stabilize all that . Now , remarketing themselves to the referral sources .

Speaker #6: So they can demonstrate that they can , in fact , take residents who are a little bit higher acuity , which should result in not just a wider number of residents that can be admitted , but better length of stay , which obviously contributes to occupancy as well .

Speaker #6: So there's always going to be some lag time between stabilizing your infrastructure and having the benefits of that stability resulted in stronger top line , but that's fully our expectation .

Speaker #12: Okay . Thank you . And then my second one is just on underwriting . You know obviously there's there's a bit of concern about cap rates are getting a little bit tight relative to where your spot cost of capital is .

Speaker #12: But maybe if we think longer term about that Unlevered IRR that you're achieving today on these , I don't know if you can give color there .

Speaker #12: And then also talking about , you know what that implies as far as a stabilized occupancy or a stabilized margin .

Speaker #8: Sure . This is Darren . So the investments that we have closed on and our evaluating have going in yields of between 7 and 8% and are expected to deliver a mid-single digit annual earnings growth as a result , we estimate levered IRR unlevered IRR , excuse me for the investments we've made are in the low double digit range as far as occupancy is concerned , it really depends on each individual micro-market .

Speaker #8: But we typically temper stabilize occupancy to be in the lower to mid 90% maximum .

Speaker #12: Okay. Very helpful. Thank you.

Speaker #4: Your next question comes from the line of Seth Burgi with Citi . Please go ahead .

Speaker #13: Hi . Thanks for taking my question . I guess my first one is just kind of on the pipeline . You know , as you kind of increase your target for the shop exposure , how do you see kind of the mix of the pipeline of opportunities you're looking at skew between shop and skilled .

Speaker #8: So this is Darren again . So our current pipeline as it has been for the past several quarters . Typically we've seen 90 to 95% of that volume or opportunity set is within shop .

Speaker #8: And only maybe 5% to 10% on the sniff. So I would expect us to be heavily weighted towards shop moving forward.

Speaker #6: We have a couple of smaller off market sniff deals that we are working on that more likely to be in early 2026 event .

Speaker #6: Okay . And we do have we do have we we do have some hope that we'll start seeing more sniff volume next year .

Speaker #6: We're not shying away from it . I mean , we have our own standards relative to the quality we're looking for , but we are looking forward to being able to get more sniff deals done next year .

Speaker #13: Great, thanks. And then, I guess just a second one kind of on the loan book piece: you have the $300 million mortgage loan that matures next October.

Speaker #13: Can you just kind of give us an update on , you know , your thoughts around , you know , what happens as you kind of get closer to the maturity date ?

Speaker #13: There ?

Speaker #6: Yeah , I think the only comments we'd make at this point is that the operations continue to get better . They have a great operating team in place , so that's really been great to see .

Speaker #6: And as far as what we're going to do on a go forward basis , as we get closer to the extension , we're having those conversations now .

Speaker #13: Okay , great . Thank you . .

Speaker #4: Your next question comes from the line of Juan Sanabria with BMO Capital Markets . Please go ahead .

Speaker #14: Hi . Good morning . Just hoping you could talk a little bit , Rick , about your appetite or lack thereof around persuing skilled nursing or idea or opco investments is everybody looks for external growth opportunities in the space .

Speaker #6: No appetite .

Speaker #14: I like the succinctness . Secondly , just hoping you could give us a little bit more color on the US versus Canada split for shop .

Speaker #14: What's the current split on an NOI basis today in the Canadian market? You'd like to grow in. And is there any kind of limitations or governors on growth in Canada?

Speaker #14: I know some markets , Quebec mainly have some pricing restrictions or rent controls . So just curious on on on that .

Speaker #7: I'll , I'll take the part about appetite . So we would like to grow in Canada . We've had good success with the portfolio investments we've made there .

Speaker #7: I think the biggest and Canada faces even a longer time frame for getting new supply added to their existing inventory . And they have the same demographic issues we do , but without the labor , same labor pressures .

Speaker #7: So there's a really good setup there . The challenge for us is pricing , and that is assets trade for call it six handle cap rates and that's just not doesn't work for us right now .

Speaker #7: We continue to stay close to that market . And obviously have enough exposure to to see what's going on . I'll let Darren respond to to the rate and and such .

Speaker #8: Yeah. As far as the rate is concerned, it does determine which province you're located in, with Quebec having the most punitive or tempered sort of rate opportunity.

Speaker #8: That being said, there tend not to be any sort of rate restrictions with respect to care. So, it's a balance.

Speaker #14: And what's the split between the US and Canada presently in the shop portfolio ?

Speaker #8: Of the 70 total same-store assets, Canada has 25.

Speaker #14: Thank you .

Speaker #4: Your next question comes from the line of Richard Anderson with Cantor Fitzgerald. Please go ahead.

Speaker #15: Thanks . Good morning . So I have a question about the fact that everybody is sort of doing the same thing , which is , you know , expanding into shop .

Speaker #15: And it reminds me of , I don't know , 2015 , 2016 time frame . When operators were all pushing the rights to move from a net lease model to a shop model .

Speaker #15: I remember thinking , you know , what do they know that we don't ? And then next thing you know , we're oversupplied and the rights are underwater with not underwater .

Speaker #15: But, you know, struggling with the shop. So, I mean, when you use that history of sort of everyone moving to shop, now everyone is buying shop, and everyone's growing in shop.

Speaker #15: Do you have any concerns about this sort of mass wave of movement that you know , everyone's doing it and maybe we should be thinking about this a little bit more closely because it does feel a little herd like to me .

Speaker #15: And I wonder if if , you know , if that enters any concern into your mind about pursuing this , like everybody else is doing .

Speaker #6: Yeah . So I totally get your point . I think the dynamics are dramatically different right now . I mean , you've got the demographics that everybody's been waiting for for three decades are really kicking in there .

Speaker #6: We've got several years , if not longer , runway before a new supply has any impact whatsoever . When you look at the the breadth of opportunities out there , for those of us who have been on the sniff side of the REIT business as well , it's almost like it was before the pandemic where there were just so many different sniff opportunities out there .

Speaker #6: There were enough for all of us to get sort of our fair share. And I think that's the case now and then.

Speaker #6: The other thing, obviously, is a complete change in interest rates and the debt market from when the PS got high on crack because of really zero interest for so long.

Speaker #6: And just leveraged everything up . And of course , that all imploded on them once the pandemic hit . And even with interest rates coming down , it's not going back to what it was .

Speaker #6: And as PS start to circle around and get more interested in maybe getting back into the space , they still need a spread and not going to be able to impact cap rates the way they did back then .

Speaker #6: So, that's my answer. Rich.

Speaker #15: Well , I mean good , good tie .

Speaker #7: I , I want to add one other thing . And that is we've been doing shop for a long time . Like basically a almost a decade if not actually a decade .

Speaker #7: So so that's one we're not newbies to this . That's sort of one . So we didn't follow everybody . But I think the important , the important thing to note is we can we continue to be really selective of what we're buying .

Speaker #7: We're in intentionally buying recent vintage assets . All those assets that those PS develop that then they took forever to lease up . And it ruined their IRR .

Speaker #7: We're taking advantage of that . And it's and it's been it's been an opportunity to buy new assets that are geared to the future .

Speaker #7: And those you know residents like me in a few years and and there and they're .

Speaker #6: Sorry .

Speaker #7: And and I think that's really important for people to understand there's there's plenty of senior housing you can buy that's value add at .

Speaker #7: That's 20 plus years old . There that , you know , may forever be in value add mode . We're not buying those .

Speaker #15: Okay. By the way, good luck to you. I will miss your perfect pronunciation of every word that comes out of your mouth.

Speaker #15: I don't know if anybody else has noticed that about your delivery , but I have . My second question is , you know , what's the shelf life of this growth spurt ?

Speaker #15: Like ? You know what do we have five years ahead of us ? You know , as soon as we have a sniff of new supply coming at us , obviously , maybe that changes the dynamic .

Speaker #15: But assuming that holds off for the time being , is this a five year sort of story ? Two years . What do you think ?

Speaker #15: Knowing what's out there today? Yeah.

Speaker #8: This is this is Darren . This is Darren . I think at the very least it's going to be it's going to be two years .

Speaker #8: I think there's I've seen numbers around $20 billion of senior housing , mortgage debt that's coming due over the next two years , which should provide a lot of opportunity .

Speaker #8: There . I think it's at least two years .

Speaker #15: Okay . Perfect . Thanks very much .

Speaker #4: Your next question comes from the line of Alex Hagan with Baird . Please go ahead .

Speaker #16: Hey, thank you for taking my question. So first, may you speak about the managed seniors pipeline deal flow, specifically what you are seeing between Illinois and Alabama?

Speaker #8: Yeah , sure . So we see a combination of both . But it's definitely much more weighted towards Al memory care than IL .

Speaker #16: Okay. And the second one for me is: are there any new observations with private capital entering or exiting either the skilled nursing or the SHOP acquisition market?

Speaker #16: And do you think Sabra, and its public peers, are taking market share currently?

Speaker #7: On the sniff side , I think you're still seeing very active private capital involved using debt for leverage and , you know , reads having to be clever in how they how they deploy capital into the sniff world on senior housing .

Speaker #7: We are starting to see private equity come in. They are not disrupting pricing, at least not yet, because of the factors that Rick outlined.

Speaker #7: But we are seeing names come in . They're not coming in with doing huge deals , but they or or take privates yet or or other methods that they use to to go in in a big way and make a big splash in the past , we're seeing them at the asset level .

Speaker #7: Onesy Twosies start . I think they're tiptoeing back in . I think there's there's some institutional memory , although it's usually brief .

Speaker #16: Thank you for that .

Speaker #4: Your next question comes from the line of Michael Troyke with Green Street . Please go ahead .

Speaker #17: Thanks and good morning. So, you've now had three consecutive quarters of all at one to low 2% shop expense growth. Do you see this as a sustainable pace in the near term?

Speaker #8: This is Darren . Yes . We don't see anything that should disrupt disrupt that trend from continuing .

Speaker #6: And the operating leverage is occupancy continues to grow. It just contributes to that.

Speaker #17: Right okay . Is any of that low expense growth due to maybe weakness in occupancy within the holiday portfolio ? Or maybe that's actually been a headwind given some of your comments on on labor rightsizing , just curious how the holiday portfolio is impacting that .

Speaker #9: Yeah , it was more a headwind than anything . And , you know , we've talked about this now for several quarters now .

Speaker #9: Talia has always pointed this out. You know, on an export basis, we’ve actually seen flat to declining export on our portfolio because of the operating leverage.

Speaker #9: You know, given where the occupancy is on this total portfolio, there's not a lot of incremental expense you need in order to increase occupancy.

Speaker #17: Got it. That's helpful. I appreciate the time.

Speaker #18: Yep .

Speaker #4: Again , if you would like to ask a question , please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad . Thank you .

Speaker #4: Your first . Your next question comes from the line of Omotayo Okusanya with Deutsche Bank . Please go ahead .

Speaker #19: Hi . Yes . Good afternoon everyone . Talia . End of the road will definitely miss you and all your advice and I wish you all the very best .

Speaker #7: Thank you .

Speaker #19: Congrats on . Of course , congrats on the credit upgrade guys . Just kind of curious as you kind of think about your cost of debt , the implications of the of the upgrade , does it kind of if you're going to issue debt on secure debt going forward , do you think you're kind of 25% or 25 bits in , or does it have any impact on your on your pricing grid ?

Speaker #9: Yeah , it's a good question . I think the short answer , short answer is it doesn't have a material impact on our pricing today .

Speaker #9: By having all three credit rating agencies rate us at investment grade probably a couple basis points to be very honest with you , it doesn't impact our pricing grid on our credit facility .

Speaker #9: Anything like that . I think what it does for us , more than anything , one , it validates our story , which is huge .

Speaker #9: And , you know , something ? We've been pounding the table with Moody's on for 15 years . And finally , you know , that worked .

Speaker #9: But then importantly , is now that we have all three of those rating agencies on board , you know , we're not exposed to , you know , perhaps one of them going rogue one day .

Speaker #9: And changing their rating methodology hypothetically . Right . And that would impact our credit rating if we only had two at that level .

Speaker #9: And then if one did that, then we'd be in a different situation from a pricing perspective. So now it just gives us more breathing room and more comfort over being able to continue being an investment-grade issuer going forward.

Speaker #19: Gotcha. That's helpful. And then could you just talk a little bit about the behavioral portfolio at this point and kind of long-term plans around that?

Speaker #6: Sure . So you'll see that continue to shrink as a percent of our portfolio when we first started investing in it , it was really still during the pandemic .

Speaker #6: And it was just another pathway to growth. It was before both the senior housing and skilled spaces really started recovering way more quickly than anticipated from the pandemic.

Speaker #6: And it became clear that the best use of our capital allocation was senior housing and skilled nursing, to the extent that we could find opportunities.

Speaker #6: And, you know, we noticed all along, from the beginning of those investments, that we thought it was an interesting space.

Speaker #6: It had some different dynamics and unit economics from both skilled and senior housing that we like , particularly the fact that the break even point on profitability was sort of in the 50 to 60% range .

Speaker #6: We like that . We see it as a growing or growing space , but all that said , we also noted that it was very young .

Speaker #6: There were the operators that had been proven were few and far between . And so the opportunities were always going to be incremental and and so that's kind of how we sort of got into it .

Speaker #6: And why the why the growth has really was so slow initially . And we just haven't grown in that . But again , since both the latter part of 23 , when it became so apparent with the runway was going to be for senior housing and skilled , that really is the best use of our capital .

Speaker #6: So , you know , we'll it'll shrink naturally . As I said , as a percent of our exposure , if we have opportunities to divest some of those assets , we'll explore that .

Speaker #6: And that's kind of it. Does that answer your question, Kyle?

Speaker #19: Perfectly . Thanks , Rick .

Speaker #6: Yep .

Speaker #4: At this time, we have no further questions. I will now turn the call over to Rick Mitros for closing remarks.

Speaker #6: Thank you all for joining us today . We appreciate the support . As always . We're available for follow up and look forward to talking with all of you again .

Speaker #6: And for those of you that we don't talk to before year end , hope you all have a great holidays and be safe .

Speaker #6: Thank you .

Speaker #4: This concludes today's conference call. We thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect. Have a blessed day, everyone.

Speaker #3: I heard there was a secret chord that David played and it pleased the Lord . But you don't really care for music , do you ?

Speaker #3: Well , it goes like this . The fourth , the fifth , the minor fall and the major lift . The baffled king composing Hallelujah .