Q3 2025 RCM Technologies Inc Earnings Call

Contained in the forward-looking statements. It's based on our beliefs estimates assumptions and information currently available to us. And these matters, may materially change in the future. Many of these beliefs estimates and assumptions are subject to rapid changes for more information on our forward-looking statements and the risks uncertainties and other factors to which they are subject. Please see the periodic reports on forms. 10K 10q and 8K that we file with the SEC as well. As our press releases that we issue from time to time. I will now turn the call over to Brad vizy executive chairman to provide an overview of rcm's operating performance during the quarter.

Kevin. Good morning, everyone.

As we exit our seasonal, third quarter, we are entering Q4 for a position of strength, demonstrating, record, 2026 engineering backlog, as of the end of October and continued, momentum and Healthcare.

Penetration of existing clients continues to increase while commercial discussions. Start to crystallize with future Flagship clients.

I attribute increased traction to Growing brand awareness. In our end markets fortified by our employees commitment to Quality and reliable delivery.

Also of note, as our visibility increases, so does the strength of our talent pool. We have seen a noticeable change in the number of highly qualified candidates reaching out to RCM.

providing further fuel for the flywheel.

We will continue to invest time the business while many of our peers remain on their heels.

Despite excess medical costs to the tune of approximately 1.8 million dollars a year to date with Q3 hit particularly hard.

Our financial results remain resilient.

Kevin will provide more granularity into our financial performance later in the call, giving further visibility into our fundamental strength, led by Healthcare and Engineering.

I will now provide an update on the progress of each of our business units, starting with Healthcare.

we entered the 2025 2026 school year with momentum.

Seeing strong growth across our portfolio, driven by our commitment to quality and innovation and client satisfaction.

Our roster of new school Partners is expanding and we are equally encouraged by the commitments, from our existing clients to broaden. Our role in Staffing their schools

No, competition in certain markets has increased. It simply has not mattered.

Our share in these same markets increased, regardless.

A testament to the commitment of our team and the trust. We have built as preferred provider in the K through 12 and Market,

To put it differently.

Doubling down, on caring is good for business.

Despite tracking to close 2025 with our strongest financial performance outside of Co.

We already have an eye toward 2026. As we anticipate seeing the benefits of a record foreign recruitment pipeline that we have invested heavily in the last several years.

The future of RCM Healthcare remains bright. Now I will transition to Life Sciences data and solutions

In life sciences, the industry is seeing a significant shift as it deals with a variety of changes, due to tariffs favored nation, drug pricing and process automation, each have caused momentum shifts with many of our clients from the negative of Workforce reductions to the positive of capital investment Manufacturing.

The structural industry often shifts, presenting opportunities for RCM.

We are capitalizing by partnering with an AI driven computer software validation and Equipment qualification company that has allowed us to streamline compliance, protocols and reduce turnaround times across manufacturing sites.

The creation of a dedicated Life Sciences Engineering Group will further differentiate RCM in the market.

As it pertains to data and solutions. Meaningful progress as has been made in Ai and analytics particularly as applied to Life Sciences.

these efforts continue to unlock actionable insights from predictive forecasting to real-time monitoring

The updates reflect how technology is being leveraged, not just to optimize operation, but to fuel innovation at the core of the business.

As we move into Q4, we feel that our efforts are positioning us for growth.

Life Sciences will benefit from ongoing digital transformation, further integration of AI-driven compliance, and scaling of the new Engineering Group. These efforts are expected to drive efficiency and enhance our value proposition to Pharma partners.

We are building the use of AI analytics into our process with a focus on generating deeper insights and supporting Innovation across the Enterprise.

The emphasis will be on predictive capabilities in real-time data to support operational excellence and strategic decision-making.

HCM will see growth beyond our foundational, managed service efforts in building our direct and BPO business as our pipeline continues to mature.

Transitioning to engineering starting with Energy Services.

Energy Services, delivered, another strong quarter in Q3 in addition to securing record backlog for 2026 reinforcing. Rcm's leadership in, modern grid infrastructure, and Advanced Energy Solutions,

Our integrated engineering and EPC model continues to gain momentum as utilities and data center developers seek partners.

With the technical depth, safety culture, and scalability to execute complex multidisciplinary projects and tangible client outcomes.

We Advanced major programs in substation modernization and energy resilient infrastructure with significant contributions from our civil, structural mechanical and protection and control teams.

We have made great strides growing within our core utility client base. Each project reinforcing our reputation for technical precision and execution reliability solidifying. Our position as engineer of choice and Tier 1, preferred partner.

The business continues to outpace expectations, reflecting the strength of our integrated strategy and increasing market demand.

Our engineering teams are designing and executing major programs across North America and international. While deepening strategic Partnerships with oems to strengthen, procurement agility and and mitigate equipment lead time constraints.

In a market challenge by labor availability and resource. Bottlenecks RCM leverages our hybrid resourcing model combining domestic expertise with global, engineering design, excellent centers, best-in-class, digitalization, and 3D Bim to ensure continuity scalability and cost-effective execution.

This flexible approach enables the company to mobilize. Skilled Manpower quickly for time-sensitive and Mission critical infrastructure projects.

Rcm's combination of specialized expertise, digital Innovation and operational. Discipline is positioning the business for sustained growth.

Our teams are designing and delivering infrastructure and and enhances that enhances grid. Reliability, integrates Renewables, and builds resilience into the critical systems. Powering our communities.

Our guiding philosophy remains constant.

Engineering Excellence, that sets the standard and energy infrastructure.

Aerospace and defense continues to gain momentum.

in existing programs support, and increase demand across new clients, primarily in engineering manufacturing, and supply chain areas,

When compared to Q3 2024 year to date Revenue, has grown almost 45%. Gross profit by approximately 49% in Ava by 110%. So, the third quarter is historically slower when compared to other quarters, due to increased PTO and headcount to continue to increase through Q3 2025

As projected, we have realized an increase in gross margin and ebita in Q3 2025 and subsequently quarter of a quarter throughout the entire year.

Our vertical left and Technology. Innovator, customers doing business with the US government continued. To spearhead our progress thus far in 2025, with multiple opportunities on the horizon in 2026 and Beyond.

As anticipated success in our, new service areas and expertise in supply chain, manufacturing and quality engineering, with current. And new clients has impacted 2025 with a positive outlook for 2026.

The awards in our aftermarket arena with 2 existing customers. At the start of 2025 continued to contribute to our success, in delivering to our aftermarket clients.

RCM Aerospace and defense attributes. Our latest award as Bell flights.

Best new supplier in 2025 to our sales and recruitment team, which continues to build trusted valued relationships throughout the client and candidate base.

Credit to our operations team for helping build a client. We added to the portfolio in 2024 into 1 of our largest clients in 2025.

This is just 1 example of our ability to land. And expand quickly leveraging, our core capabilities, within RCM

We anticipate growth to continue as we close 2025 and more opportunities are realized with the Aerospace and Defence environment vying for American companies who can hold clearances up to the secret, and top secret level. Where we sit today, we believe many of the Aerospace and defense programs are in their infancy and we look forward to setting a new big sign in 2026.

Now, I will return the call to Kevin to discuss the Q3 2025 Financial results in more detail.

Thanks. Brad. Regarding our Consolidated results. Consolidated gross profit for the third quarter of 2025 was 19.4 Million which grew 8.8% over Q3 2024, adjusted ebitda for Q3 255 was 5.5 million as compared to 5.6 million for Q3 24. For a slight decline of 1.4% adjusted EPS was 42 cents for both comparable quarters.

As for our segment performance in the third quarter of 2025 in healthcare gross. Profit for Q3, 25 was 9.0 million compared to 8.3 million for Q3 2024. Growing 8.5%, gross margin for Q3 25 was 30.0% as compared to 31.2% for Q3 2024 School revenue for Q3. 25 was 24.4 Million compared to 20.2 million for Q3 24. Growing 20.7% non-school revenue for Q3 255 was 5.6 million compared to 6.4 million for Q3 24 de 11.3. Our Healthcare group experienced a slow start to Q3 due to lower summer session Revenue than we normally see. However, our September growth for

Profit for all of healthcare grew, over 20%, September versus September, 2025 versus 2024. Furthermore billable hours for the first 4 weeks of October 2025 increased by 18% as compared to the same period in 2024. So we're off to a, a nice start in Q4 and we're excited to see how those results come in in engineering gross profit for Q3.

25 was 6.9 million compared to 5.9 million for Q3 24 growing 17.3%.

And our best engineering gross profit in quarter in our history, gross margin for Q3. 25 was 22.0%. Compared to 24.4% for Q3 24. We are very excited about where our Energy Services backlog stands at this time. Last year in 2024, our backlog for 2025 was 21 million. Our backlog today for 2026 is just over 70 million while we are still, uh, growing our 2026 backlog. We are now very focused on 2027 and Beyond. In our, it life sciences and data solutions, group, gross profit for Q3 2025 was 3.5 million compared to 3.7 million for Q3 2424, decreasing by 4.2%, gross margin for 20 for Q3 255 was 39.4.

5% compared to 38.0% for Q3 2024.

It is worth noting that our sgna expense includes 800,000 of costs for medical claims over budget in the third quarter alone and 1.8 million a year to date regarding our balance sheet. Frankly, we were disappointed with cash flow from operations in Q3 25. We again experienced administrative collection issues with 2 of our large school clients.

We are optimistic. We will see good cash flow in Q4 and expect the cash flow from operations for fiscal. 25 will approximate net income.

Heading into 2026.

This concludes our prepared remarks. At this time, we will open the call for questions.

and with that, ladies and gentlemen, you may press star 1 on your telephone keypad, if you would like to ask a question,

That is star 1 on your telephone keypad to join the question queue.

And first up we do have Bill Sutherland of The Benchmark company.

Thanks. Hey guys. Uh, thanks for taking the questions. Um,

curious about the, um,

Candidates. Uh, the foreign candidates that are, um, uh, building in the Healthcare Group. Um, what um,

Can you just kind of give us an order of magnitude and maybe timing on that on on their impact?

Well, we certainly can't predict the timing bill. Um you know, it all it's all dependent on Visa retrogression.

You know, there have according to some things that we've heard you know, we believe the dates are going to be moved you know, sometime in the fourth quarter. Um, even if they move a couple of months, we probably have 50 to 60 nurses. We can bring over, you know if if if if they move let's say 3 or 4 months

Uh, that may or may not happen, right? Uh, but we have at least, you know,

We have 300 nurses in our pipeline who have passed all exams and are ready to come over if we can get them.

uh, you know, if we can get them visas, right and we have a lot more than and we have a lot more than that in our pipeline that are in the process of

You know, passing various exams to to, to be able to come over.

Um, it's something that, you know, we make a pretty heavy investment in.

Uh, we know a lot of our customers; our competitors have kind of scaled back in that area a little bit because of the difficulty with getting, you know, nurses into this country right now. But

We believe that the pendulum will swing the other way at some point and and we'll be ready for it, okay?

Um, I guess there's no way to predict excess medical costs. Um, do you feel like...

This is kind of a a level that we should just pencil in for 4 q. Yes. Probably. Because I don't expect anything radically different in, in, in, in Q4. Um, we, we have taken some measures, you know, long term to try to, uh, you know, reduce those costs a little bit but that's probably not going to impact us too much until 2026. Hopefully, um, it's just been a, it's been a crazy year for medical costs. It's, you know, we we had 3 or 4, great years in a row.

And then 24 and 25 were just terrible.

You can't you can't predict it. I know it's uh it's hard to predict and you know, there's obviously a lot of headwinds with

what's going on with, you know, a lot of inflationary pressures and, you know, in hospitals, and insurance companies driving up costs.

You know, our our insurance, for all of our insurance is up a lot in 25 versus 24, but at least, you know what that is heading into the year and you can budget for it. Right? Yep. But you know, the medical claims you really, you know, your budget for it. You make your best budget and then and then it can get wiped out pretty quickly, unfortunately.

so last 1 for me Brad um when you were going through the engineering groups um, on Industrial process,

I I wasn't clear kind of how that's doing and kind of how that's uh booking for next year. Thanks.

Yeah, no, uh, part of industrial process, you know, you know, continues to, you know, motor along pretty strong. Um, you know, it we're hiring, um, you know, demand is robust, um, you know, and the second unit, you know, is is it's, it's a work in progress, you know, some changes are being made to strategy, Personnel. Um, you know, and the good news is, is it's it's it's our smallest unit.

Right. Um, you know there's there's potential upside there for sure um you know, but whether it's a pretty good year or a very mediocre year, it's unlikely to move the needle. Um, either way it it has, you know, our attention and, you know, I'd say out of all of our businesses, it's the 1 that it just needs to it needs to be on on a different trajectory right now but it has, it is stable.

Small as, you know, Bill, but I will say this uh, I believe we have some pretty exciting projects in our pipeline.

Um, that we're pretty bullish on.

Um, you know, particularly along the our, our next campaign.

And, uh, you know, we just got to close them.

Um, and you know, we think we think that group will have a good 2026, but, you know, we don't have, uh, the backlog that we have in our 2 other engineering businesses. You know, and, and I'm talking relative to the size, but it, it, it, it, it has good potential. And, you know, we're excited to realize some of this pipeline. So hopefully, you know, on our next call, we'll, we'll have some, uh, you know, some good news for you, around RP, Andy business,

Okay, got it. Thanks again.

All right. Next up. We have William duberstein of Stone Oak Capital.

Hey, how's it going? Um,

Want to touch on, uh, Energy Services. Seems like it's, um,

Growing the fastest probably the largest growth opportunity.

Everything we're reading is just pointing to increase. Uh,

Utility growth power, independent, power producer growth. Um,

We're talk you, there's you know, behind the meter deals happening with data centers. Just wondering if you could touch on

um,

How do you see the market evolving for you guys if you're sticking with traditional utility partners? Are you, um, seeing any new entries into the market?

Uh, the business or if you're exploring new Partnerships.

Um, and I think you talked about some of, uh, your digital capabilities, which, uh, if you could just elaborate on what you're seeing there, I guess in general, that would be, uh, that would be great. Yeah, yeah, our strategy in that business is to really kind of focus and go all in on, you know, our strengths, where we can establish a point of differentiation and a reputation.

Or the Tier 1 clients. In other words, you know, the largest Utilities in the country. And so, you know though there are certainly um

A broad list of, you know, you know, vendors out there, right, in terms of that and talk to 1 list. It, it's relatively narrow, those those go-to players that, you know, kind of get get to the front of the line pretty quickly. And, and are in contention, um, you know, for being the Preferred Choice. Um, and, you know, it's the Investments we've made in the last several years, they're they're starting to pay off, you know, we're dialing that in, you know, in terms of being able to um, you know, really roll out our success and, and to the market broadly, um, and and we're very pleased, uh, with the direction that we're headed. Um, look that you know that being said, you know, we want to continue to be thoughtful. There is no shortage of activity out there. Um, you know, we uh, are very cognizant, uh, about, you know, getting caught up in,

Sticking our nose. We're really shouldn't be um, you know, and and and risk management. Um, but you know, we are at a point where we feel like you know uh the group is is is we're taking that to the next level. Uh inevitably, you know, there are, you know, Investments you make along the way um you know, it's a different set of infrastructure as you go through that process, you dial in Personnel, right? Um, you know but uh,

I'd say, you know, it's a very positive story; they're going forward. Now, with respect to data center activity, um, you know, when you look at that...

The investment in the grid right now. Right? You know kind of our stronghold our is is the utility Market.

So, you know, as far as, you know, direct, you know, data center activity. Um, you know, that's really kind of incremental to us.

Um, you know, just there is no shortage of opportunity with our core client base. So you know, we continue to remain focused on that and you know, as you know it's a very stable um, you know, uh,

Wrong with that. Um, you know, and you know, we're riding the wave in that regard. Um, you know, uh, but also we see opportunities to, you know, get more involved on the data center, Front selectively. Um, you know, and I think probably most obvious opportunity is the inter interconnect aspect of it. Um, you know, because you know the reality is is you know each of these

Major data centers. You see they require substations right to be built and that's obviously directly in our wheelhouse. So you know, the way I would describe it to you. In general. Bill is is you know it's continued to to maintain the quality and and build our reputation. Um and you know it really gets to the point where, you know, your

Your your following, your client, you're following that Demand, right? So in terms of adding like, you know, even just adding for 1 or 2 incremental, you know, core clients, um, a year, it, it can really move the needle from our vantage point. Because, again, you know, you can take any major utility, have a look at it, right? I mean, you know, historically, their capex spend might be might have been 2 or 3 billion, you know? Now it's at, you know, maybe 5 or 6 and then you know some of them are

You know, $8 to $10 billion are moving up another level to call $8 to $10 billion a year. Um, you know, and a lot of the brain share of that is going towards hurting the grit. Um, so it's an exciting time for sure. Uh, but you know, at the same time, you know, it's also a time where you only get too far over your skis, so we're being thoughtful about it. But, you know, suffice to say, you know,

We're pretty excited about where we're headed there.

That's great. And you mentioned your attracting.

Sort of a new level of talent or or you're liking what you're seeing.

in terms of,

Pulling talent or talent coming to you. I guess not pulling talent.

Would that would these?

is that in this Energy Services area and is it are these people in your point of differentiation or are they

More of an opportunity to expand. I would say maybe horizontally or with complementary.

Services, if that makes sense.

Yeah, that's a good question. Um, you know, like, look, I mean, you know, one of the nice things about Services is, you know, to the extent that you meet, uh, it can even be one person. But, you know, uh, you come across a set of very talented folks that you've been bolted on right to your platform. You know, the opportunity to grow within agencies is, it's, it's...

It's pretty clear. Um, so they answered your question: is this really both? Um, and I attribute that to, you know, we made a very conscious effort to get behind, you know, just investing in our brand in general. I mean, you know, starting at the most fundamental level would be the website, you know, our digital presence, LinkedIn, etc. I mean, it's a night-and-day difference if you look back 18 to 24 months ago and, you know, one of the nice...

You know, things about the times we live in right now is is, you know, the ability to reach like um folks in a relatively targeted manner. It's very cost-effective. Um, you know, it it, you know, if you have somebody that's very talented about the techniques associated with that, I mean, uh, the costs are are relatively diminished. So it's really, you know, again, some of the Investments we've made over the last several years, you know, with respect to that technical Foundation, um, really building a substantial uh, you know, reputation in the market, you know, not just as, you know, an emerging player I I think it's a very fair to say at this point. We're you know, we're we're firmly in that Tier 1 bucket. Um, and you know just making sure um you know your your front and center, you know uh with respect to that Target of Canada pool. Um and you know that digital presence in particular.

Yeah, great, it's all good stuff. Um,

So, it has more to do with, uh, ...

So when when when, when schools go into summer session, right?

Um, they have kids in the schools.

Right. Obviously at a much, much slower rate than, you know, than the primary, you know, uh, school year.

So our business doesn't go to zero in.

You know, in July uh, which which all of our schools are closed and then, you know, some start to open up in early to mid August and some clothes in early may all the way through you know late June, right? So you see softness in in June July and August relative to the other 9 months but uh the schools still use our services but it just depends on how many of our kids uh are doing summer session.

And it's pretty hard to predict. We see a lot of randomness in it from year to year.

And for the level that we're at today, you know, in terms of the number of people and the number of contracts and all that, we expected to see more Revenue coming from our school clients, um, in July and August than than, than we actually got and and I don't attribute attribute that to anything but sort of Randomness, right? Because once the school year started, uh, to kick in and and mid August and really kick in in September

Remember, uh, you know, we saw great results.

So, you know that. So, so the results for Q3 for healthcare are a little overall, are a little bit lower than what we expected to see. Because we, we did expect to see some nice growth in September, which we, we got, uh, we just did, we just expected Revenue to be a little bit higher in July and August than it actually was.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, I got it so they're basically fewer students than you thought in your client schools over the summer.

Fewer. Fewer of our students.

And our schools just needed less people than than we thought. It's it's a combination of fewer of our students that, you know, we had the previous year and maybe, you know, fewer people taking off for the summer at the schools, you know, but it just, it just wasn't as great as we thought it would be.

Got it. That makes that makes sense and then uh final saying just just back to the health care costs. Um are you guys self-insuring now and if just given the last 2 years, would you think of maybe

Changing strategies, if given the size of the company, um,

I think you said, yeah, I think you said you were looking to make to change something with the strategy there so I just wasn't sure. Well, we're we're we're always looking to tweak our medical plans, you know, to to bring those overall costs down. Um not only because we want lower costs for the company, but we you know, more importantly we want lower costs, lower costs for our employees. Um and we can attract more people when we have, you know, lower cost options available. Um, but to to answer your question, yes, we are self-insured and I think you were asking me if we would consider going fully insured. And the answer to that question is no, because as bad as our medical costs were the last 2 years, they would be even higher if we went fully insured because when you go full full full fully assured, is there aren't many companies. We're not a big company obviously bill, but we're plenty. Big enough to where the decision is pretty. Easy self-insured versus insured and as you could probably imagine

When you go self-insured, you know, insurance companies, they're, they're building all that risk into that premium and and and all that profit. So it just it doesn't make any sense to go self-insured at our at our size. If you have like, maybe like a hundred covered lives, then the then the fully insured model.

Makes a lot of sense if you're a smaller company, right? But when you have like 800 or more, that which is what we have, it's it's really a no-brainer to go with the self-insured plan.

Got, it makes sense. Uh okay thanks guys. I think I've taken up enough time.

Great results. And uh, thanks for having me on.

All right. Next up. We have Liam Burke of B, Riley securities.

Thank you, Brad. Hi, Kevin. How you doing? Good good.

Gross margin. But you make it up on the SG&A line, or is there anything else in there? Well, you know, like we discussed on previous calls, you're going to see a fair amount of uh,

You know, uh, uh, variation to our gross margin in in, in in our Engineering Group and it has to do with Revenue mix. And it has to do with, uh, how much of our activity is conducted by our subs in a given quarter, right? So, you know, we don't make the same profit margin obviously, the same gross profit margin on our subs, that we do on our salaried employees and then, you know, our Aerospace uh, is a little bit lower gross margin than say Energy Services or or uh industrial processing. And then industrial processing has had some Randomness to their revenue which, which which which impacts the gross margin as well. Because we have a sort of a fixed direct cost base there. Um, so you know, there's just a bunch of factors that contribute to the randomness which is why at the end of the day we focus on gross profit dollars. I mean, obviously there's a correlation and obviously we want to

We want to maximize gross margin, but for us it's it's focusing on uh, uh, driving and growing gross profit dollars for our Engineering Group.

Thank you and uh, on

Uh, on specialty Healthcare. You're you're getting further penetration with your existing schools. Uh, you're acquiring new customers,

That are there other areas you can replicate that business model or does it look like schools seem to be to fit you know your your skill set here?

Uh, the answer to that question is. Yes, there are other areas that we can, replicate that model and that's something we spend a lot of time thinking about

uh, obviously our, you know,

At our core. We're a school. We're a school business, right? Uh, and we're really, really good at it. And we think we're as good as any company, if not better. Uh, so we, we don't want to lose the focus that we have on schools.

Because you know we're driving nice growth there. And and what's great about the school business is that it tends to be pretty repetitive right. We we we we very rarely lose clients, you know, School clients.

Um, so we're going to continue that focus, but there are other areas.

You know that we're looking at, and you know Bill Sullivan earlier asked about some of our foreign nurses that are coming over. You know, when they eventually get here, most of them are not going to go to schools; they're going to go to hospitals.

Uh, some will go to the schools, but a lot will a lot will go to hospitals, uh, because there's such a screaming need for them. Uh, and and that's an area where we have a little bit of advantage over the competition. Because we've been, you know, we've been recruiting overseas for 25 years. I mean, we're we're we're experts at it, right? Uh, and we have a great reputation and we have a great following and some of these countries that we recruited. Um, so you, you know, to answer your question, we're always going to be focused on schools. We are looking at adjacencies, you know, 1 of the things we've been kicking around and, you know, this is just in a discussion level as possibly do, you know, uh, uh, supplying substitute teachers to schools even though that's not health care but it's obviously not that big of a leap, you know, in the model, you know, isn't that different? You know, we look at things like substitute teaching. Uh, we're in the Philip, you know, we have a significant presence in the Philippines right now, and we're looking at, and, and that's largely driven by our Healthcare Group. Uh, Although our other groups are

Are in the Philippines as well. Uh, we are looking at doing some potential Outsourcing in the Philippines for for clients in the US for healthcare positions and other positions.

Um, so you know, we're we're always looking for other avenues of growth.

Um, you know, when 1 of them becomes meaningful, we we will certainly let you know about it.

Great, thank you. Kevin

And just really quickly on uh, Capital allocation, uh, you've got the revolver in place. You've got plenty of capacity. It provides you great. Financial flexibility. Uh,

How do you balance, uh, available, uh, debt with your buyback program?

Yeah, normally I mean it's something you know, it's fun tonight. We talked about it a lot. I mean, as you see the last few years, I mean, we, we weren't at all shy about repurchasing shares.

And, you know, uh, with respect to valuation of our stock price. I mean, I don't I I think it's probably hard to make the argument that we're anything but undervalued,

I think, you know, just, you know, but we're in a, a really good position right now where, you know, when you've you've taken out 45% of your outstanding, you know, you have like 7.4 million shares outstanding, um, you know, there's a, an argument for a, a baseline level of shares especially when you have strong Insider ownership,

Uh float, you know, to to be able to um you know, be you know freely traded and know where institutions can get in and out and so on. And, you know, and we're thoughtful about that, you know. So it's just another dimension, you know, you weigh against just simply the valuation of your shares. So I mean, it's kind of a, a high class situation. You know, when you take out, 45% of your shares and average cost of like around 850, um, and, you know, and you're sitting around and you sure you have a little bit of debt, right? So when the capital allocation perspective, um, but you know, you have the ability to develop a relatively quickly, um, and have no debt and maybe some cash. So, I mean, I, I think really the 1 1 of the is the best positions you can be from a capital allocation perspective is where, you know,

You're always looking, right? But you really don't have to do anything.

So, you know, uh, open-minded with respect to a dividend. Um, you know, I've spent a very long time, you know, dealing with a small cap companies, uh, and micro cap companies. Uh, you know, I think, uh, the, they're a good arguments, uh, against the dividend in certain segments of the market that, you know, might not exist in a much larger company. Um, you know, so it's something we think about, we haven't shut the door on it at all, um, you know, but in the meantime, you know, we can be lever and again like, you know, like we think about every aspect of that business is, you know, uh uh, make sure we're proven about our decision making process.

Great. Thank you, Brad. Thank you. Kevin.

All right, at this time there are no further questions in queue.

Thank you for attending our Q3 conference call. We look forward to our next update in March.