Q3 2025 Silvaco Group Inc Earnings Call

Good afternoon and welcome to slovikosky.

All participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there'll be a Carson and answer session. Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Greg mcniff investor relations for SLO. Please proceed.

Thank you, joining me on the call today. Are we rins, svako, CEO, and director and Chris saguri, svako CFO.

As a reminder, a press release highlighting the company's results, along with supplemental Financial results and an earnings presentation are available on the company's IR site at investors.com, an archive replay of the call will be available on this website for a limited time after the call.

Please note, that during this call, management will be making remarks regarding future events and the future financial performance of the company.

These remarks constitute forward-looking statements for purposes of the Safe Harbor provisions of the private security litigation Reform Act.

These forward-looking statements are subject to risk and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed in the forward-looking statements. It is important. To also, note that the company undertakes, no, obligation to update such statements, except as required by law. The company cautions you, to consider risk factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those. In the forward-looking statements contained in. Today's press release earnings presentation, and on this conference, call the risk factor section in subacco, annual report on form. 10K for the year filed 12312024. And the most recent form 10q filing with a C.

Securities and Exchange Commission, provide descriptions of these risks. With that, I'd like to turn the call over to the SVAKO CEO. We rise. We.

good afternoon. I'm pleased to be part of silvaco, and I look forward to regular communication with you our investors since I became CEO. I've engaged with customers employees and investors Who provided invaluable feedback on our strengths challenges. And most importantly, the road ahead. The conclusion is clear, silvaco is a company with great potential supported by a rich history, dedicated, core customers, and strong, foundational elements.

2. Broader themes came out of these discussions. First, our success requires us to focus on key products that are sufficiently differentiated to become leaders in their respective categories of use.

Achieving this requires reduced attention on mature products and concentrated focus on a limited number of growth opportunities. I can see multiple areas where this shift in focus will pay off, namely in AI, interconnect, IP, and power.

Second, it's clear that SLO allows spending since the IPO to grow much faster than revenue.

this was also clear to me from day 1,

we've already taken steps to reverse this trend to strengthen our financials and to free up, resources needed to accelerate growth.

I'm confident that these two areas—strategic focus on core growth, drivers, and financial discipline—are the keys to strengthening the business and delivering profitable growth.

I'll provide more color on the first and Chris will walk you through the second.

Nothing into the CEO role at somos. Is like deja vu, all over again for me.

When I joined Meto Graphics, as the EO in 1993, the company had failed to meet expectations for many quarters.

None of Mentor's products were number one in their categories. The company was not profitable, and cash conservation was an issue.

Learned a great deal about the Eda business.

Closed dozens of Acquisitions grew market value more than 10x before acquisition by Siemens.

Substantially increased profitability.

And developed and grew a number of products, including caliber and tecent which by themselves generated most of the company's profits.

I find svako in a similar position to where I find mentor.

The company is failed to meet expectations after the IPO, it's not yet profitable. And the products are not number 1, in their markets except in some very specialized categories,

I believe that my mentor Playbook can be applied to so to soak up

The first step is focusing on 2 key areas financial and operational discipline, and focusing on select core growth drivers.

We believe the key to reinvigorating the business lines and focusing on the right markets with differentiated solutions to solve critical customer challenges. We have a very clear example of this in slo's AI machine learning product for process development called ftco.

The loo created this unique AI product that gives customers a valuable tool to solve real manufacturing challenges.

This single product enabled SLO to establish a partnership with Micron. You will also be 1 of our foundational growth drivers looking forward.

We can learn from ftco as an example of building disruptive technology, that can create meaningful value for our customers. And for us,

another example is Mixel. The acquisition that closed in the third quarter.

With Mixel, we expect the IP business to grow rapidly.

Customers have nothing but praise for Mixels, perfect quality, and responsiveness.

And Andy Wright, our new head of the IP business has breathed life and growth into the rest of slovaks once, small IP business.

I see synergies emerging that exceed, our initial expectations,

The SLO Salesforce will become a Force multiplier for Mixel. While the rest of the SLO IP business is learning from the world class development processes that have earned Mixel, such praise in the industry.

My expectation. Is that the Legacy SLO businesses can and will learn from Mixel best practices?

In the Eda business. As in tcad, we have Years of Legacy products, many of which continue to generate significant maintenance Revenue. These can generate steady Revenue with little costs. If we increase the cost discipline in our business,

Skilled engineers who support the mature products continue to add features and enhancements long after the products have stopped achieving new design wins.

In general, the customers neither want nor adopt the new version of the software. Only a small amount of resources is required to keep the products useful, and the skilled engineers can be moved to products with growth opportunities, providing them with increased motivation and excitement.

One example of a growth product that solves key customer problems is Javar.

It's been adopted by companies like Nvidia Samsung sk9 and many others to accelerate post layout spice simulations by more than a factor of 10. We sign off accuracy.

Looking across SLO solutions, that include AI power analysis and interconnect, IP are consistently winning new customer engagements as we de-emphasize areas that are sub-scale or generating immaterial new Revenue. We can free up resources to accelerate our stronger products, including ftco and tcad.

Our success also depends on establishing physical, fiscal, and operational discipline.

The data speaks for itself.

Since our company's IPO financial performance has been disappointing.

Revenue growth has lagged; peers and operating expenses have grown much faster than revenue.

Underestimation of the time and effort required to bring on the new ftco, customers produce, disappointing results. For what should be the key growth franchise.

The fact that expenses have grown much faster than revenue is another problem. Expense reduction has therefore become our top priority

We've initiated a significant cost Reduction Program at the beginning of the quarter.

Chris and I have set a clear expectation with the team that will drive the business to profitability at current Revenue levels. So that growth can produce incremental profit.

Chris will discuss these actions and early progress on this goal in more detail.

Operational discipline also requires a strong focus on execution.

Several key, new leaders to the team in the last few months, including our CFO heads of the IP and Eda businesses in our head of Business Development.

The energy I see in this team is exactly what we need to create a culture of speed and high quality execution.

I see a team that's not satisfied with the status quo and one that wants to win.

with our renewed focus on core growth drivers, will be able to invest at the right levels in the right areas who ensure that we close gaps with competitors and established slovaca as the leading name in Eda, for our targeted gross segments, including AI power and interconnect IP

Another contributor to the company's underperformance has been delays in integrating and extracting value from our two most recent M&A transactions.

For Mixel, we underestimated the time, required to activate the sales resources in Saco and to establish new modes of distribution including off-the-shelf sales of mine customized IP.

For techex.

Growth remains depend dependent on overall market adoption of its plasma and Optical Solutions.

Focus on this effort. Should accelerate realization of the value that techex brings.

Looking forward, we expect both Mixel and techex to contribute meaningful growth in 2026.

We remain optimistic on the longer term contributions of both of these acquisitions.

Now, thank you to step back. There's a lot of value and strength, from sako's Rich history. The company continues to benefit from the fact that users of Eda software are reluctant to change. And older products, continue to generate maintenance Revenue long. After growth from new customers has slowed.

This gives us a stable foundation upon which to build. It also gives us many compelling assets with which to focus and grow.

We have a lot of work in front of us. In the coming quarters, we expect your right side of the business, streamline the portfolio and focus on key growth segments to enable us to deliver steady profitable growth.

We recognize that it will take some time for you to see this redoubled focus in the numbers.

I encourage you to watch for our Opex to Trend flat to down gross margins to improve and evidence of growth starting to materialize in 2026.

Chris and I are firmly committed to an aggressive acceleration of sako's business.

I'm looking forward to increased personal interaction with Saco customers.

We appreciate your support as we execute on these growth plans. I'm confident that we will deliver strong results as this new strategy is implemented.

I'd now like to turn the call over to Chris who will discuss our financial results and the Outlook in more detail.

Chris.

Thanks for watching. Good afternoon, everyone. Silvaco delivered record quarterly revenue and bookings in Q3. Bookings increased 131% year-over-year to $22.8 million. The strength of the quarter was driven by closing a significant EDA contract with one of our core customers in the United States.

Revenue came in at 18.7 million up, 70% year-over-year 74% of Revenue in the quarter came from licensed revenue and the remaining 26% from Maintenance and Service.

Eda saw the most growth sequentially in Q3 while tcad and IP trended down slightly.

From a geographic perspective, we saw the most growth in Q3 from the Americas which spiked to 55% of total revenue in the quarter.

APAC represented 40% of total revenue in Mia, stayed flattish, and at 5% of Revenue in the quarter.

Looking down the p&l, gaap gross margin in Q3 was 77.9% up, 326 basis, points year-over-year and non-gaap gross margin was 81.5% Up 179 basis points year-over-year.

Growth margin Improvement was driven by growth in Revenue, exceeding growth in cost of sales going forward. We expect gross margin to benefit from our cost reduction plans.

Gap, operating loss expanded year-over-year but improved slightly quarter over quarter to a 9.3 million loss. Non-gaap operating loss was 2.3 million down slightly year-over-year

In the quarter was 5.3 million up from the 6.6 million loss posted in the same period last year. Non-gaap net loss in the quarter was 2.1, million down slightly from the 1.8 million loss posted in the same period last year.

Gaap EPS was an 18 Cent loss and non-gaap EPS was a 7 Cent loss.

Next turning to the balance sheet and cash flow cash and marketable securities.

To use an operating activities with 7.8 million.

Remaining performance obligations or RPO at quarter, end stood at 48, million with 54% expected to be recognized as Revenue within the next 12 months.

Without backs up more than 50% year-over-year and cash down since the IPO. We have begun implementing a broad cost Reduction Program. We began with an early retirement incentive program in the US and Asia. And an early lever program in Europe, we are taking other steps in addition to these programs, including reducing office Footprints, reducing discretionary, spend and minimizing use of consultants and contractors.

These steps when taken together and when fully implemented, our expected to reduce annualized non-gaap operating expenses by at least 15 million dollars annually. We also anticipate these actions to drive an increase in gross margin. Enabling more leverage from future growth.

Our guiding principle from Wally is to turn the business profitable at flat Revenue achieving. This goal will create a strong foundation for future profitable growth.

now, turning the guidance for Q4 2025, we expect bookings of 15 to 19 million

Revenue of 14 to 18 million, non-gaap gross margin in the range of 78 to 82% and non-gaap operating expenses of 16 to 18 million.

In closing, we believe that with improved Financial discipline and a focus on key growth opportunities, we will set the stage for profitable growth going forward. And with that operator, we will now take questions.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question or a comment at this time, please press star 1, 1 on your telephone. If your question has been answered, you wish to move yourself from the queue. Please press star 1 1 again, we will pause for a moment while we compile, our Q&A roster.

Our first question comes from Craig Ellis with B Raleigh security is your line is open?

Yeah, thanks for taking the question and appreciate all the color team while I wanted to start with you and it's a higher level question relating to your transition from the board to the CEO role. It it it sounds like in a fairly short amount of time at that lower level of detail. You've got a real confident grasp of of what you've got in the portfolio. Both things that are uh advantaged in the marketplace and and other businesses that that have lost their advantage and you talked about mixing out some Revenue. Uh 1 is that read correct? And 2 how significant is the revenue mix out? That is ahead of the company?

Uh well thanks Craig. Uh yes indeed being on the board. You really don't get the level of visibility down to individual products and people that are making the difference in the company or that Holiness up from making further progress. So it's the last few months now have given me the opportunity to see that in a lot of detail. I think your assessment is correct, there is uh, substantial opportunity ahead. There are specific things that I'm quite certain will grow. And then there are others that could grow given the right level of focus. But as I noted, and as Chris noted in his comments, uh, We've let the expense based grow faster than the revenue and that's, uh, been a limiter in the available resources, we can put on these key growth areas and so going forward, uh, while painful, I think we will be able to, uh, uh, write that uh, Trend and be able to free up the resources. We need to take

Advantage of some very specific areas of strength. And with that, I think, uh, we can restore confidence that svako can do what it was, uh, originally intended to do, as we went public.

Excellent. Uh Chris I'll ask the follow-up question to. You is a 2-part uh 1. You did a good job speaking to the geographic areas where you hope to uh take about 15 million out of the business. Uh, so the Tactical question is over, what time period should we expect that to occur? And the, the more strategic question is as you've been in and have had a chance to assess the systems, the processes that are in place, the forecasting mechanisms given the difficulty the business had in in delivering forecasts, how do you feel about the, um, the dashboard that's in place for you and we and, and do you feel like it's 1 that today can

Customer people are processed changes so that the business can forecast more accurately. Thank you.

Very good question. Uh, Craig and uh, thanks so much for that. Uh, the both questions are good from a time period perspective. Uh, the way that we're looking at it, you should expect most of the cost to be out of by the end of this year. But that means you won't see as much of the impact in Q4. But you should see, uh, a a reduction in Outbacks in q1 and then the rest of it should be throughout the rest of 2026. So, expect to see a step down in q1, OPAC, as most of it is out by the end of the year. Uh, and fair question on the forecasting methodologies and tools as well. That's something that Wally and I looked at almost immediately from from day 1, and I'll tell you, they, you know, the tools are in place, we do see the data, the pipeline, you know, is robust. We do review. What is expected in the coming quarters? Uh, so I'm confident that what we've given it is something we have high visibility into and something that we're confident in. Uh, but that being said, Craig, you know, me, I think there are things we can do to further.

Further improve and build upon that. And that's something that I'll be working on with the team. Uh, but I'm confident that what you heard from us is something we're confident in and we will deliver on

Excellent. Thanks Chris. Thanks Wally.

1 moment for our next question.

Our next question comes from Charles she with Native and Company, your line is open.

Hey, uh, good afternoon. Um, we uh, Chris, hey, uh, first off, we never thought that we're gonna have a conversation like this. Um, um, but, uh, once again, um, looking forward to working with you and Chris,

um,

So maybe the first question uh, maybe for a while. Um, I understand that priority probably is to if if I may just to get the housing order. Um, but while you mentioned about caliber you mentioned about the test and those were the

2 successful products of Mentor uh which were based are basically the golden standard for the industry. Um,

I think it's it would be ideal uh, for some of the Sako products to get there. Um, what do you think? What kind of products in the portfolio? Today has the potential um to get to what the caliber is what the what the testing is today. And uh by the way, how do you get there? Um, the reason why I asked this

Yes, I did. I did read your bibliography and I knew, you know, both it takes probably both effort and maybe you need a little bit luck to really get there.

But time has changed. And what's your thought there? Um, in that question. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Well, thank you Charles. It's it's good to talk again. We've been talking over many years and you're right when I just joined Mentor, it's initiated the work that developed caliber and we did an acquisition. That was the basis for testing and yet it took quite a long time before those became the dominant industry standards in their space. I I believe the way you do this is you start out with a focused market and a focused set of customers and see something that you can be the leader in. And so I I've been searching within the so where where are the seeds that can lead to the same kind of success. Good example, is where they've taken tools that were really created for IC design and applied them to displays, for example, and the manufacturing of those displays where they build a franchise with. Oh 6, different display companies.

Using the the same flow. Uh, once you once you build a franchise that's dominant or excuse me, being, that is the leader in that area. Then you expand to next areas. So you asked me, where do I see that potential? Well, uh, as I mentioned that in the earlier comments, the Sako has been very early into actually building machine learning models around process development and it's the market that others haven't been chasing that. It's, it's relatively specialized and it takes a lot of work and you need a tcad foundation to build upon so that eliminates the number of companies that could do it. But I think that's the kind of basis that can lead to a franchise that can lead to an industry-leading product. Uh, similarly, if you're in the IP business, you being a supplier of general purpose, IP, uh, May generate Revenue but it doesn't generate, uh, Market, advantage and profitability.

The acquisition of Mixel was well thought out. Clearly in MIPA, there are only two major suppliers. They have a strong reputation, and then you say, okay, well, what comes beyond? There are lots of IO standards that they can expand into. Plus, there's the existing Sobaco business, which is really quite successful. Actually, it has more demand than we can currently service in areas like memory compilers and even in the standard cell-based libraries. So, and lastly, of course, I mentioned the area of power where Sobaco models have been found for silicon carbide, gallium nitride, and other things, forming a foundation for differentiated products. My strategy is to do what others aren't doing, pick things you can do better than anyone else, and build upon those franchises. And that's indeed exactly what I plan to do here at Sobaco.

Um thanks. Uh while you you you partially answered my second question. But I I I do want to

Maybe just double down on that the together a little bit more color. Uh, speaking of Mixel, um, I know you just closed the deal uh and last quarter, um but it sounds like you you will think highly of the team, uh, of the product and uh, uh, 1 day, you can walk us through again. What exactly do they do? I I, I think I can see the, the press release. Uh, but third is

By uh, but the what exactly they do? That make you think?

That this is a high quality product, the high quality team, and uh, what makes you think, it's actually The Benchmark for the rest of the SLO team. As you mentioned it preparing much. Thanks. Yes. Uh, and I'm basing that on customer feedback talking to actual users asking them what they think and they're quite specific in saying, if all of SLO produced, the kind of quality and the, the, uh, execution to schedule and other things that Mixel had, we would be champions of the IP business, so it's not, uh, uh, just my impression talking to the people. It's my conclusion from dealing with customers and looking at the track record, 27 years and they've never had a customer. Find a bug in their IP, uh, really admirable. And another aspect is they have, uh, the vast majority of their of the people that are developing the products and supporting them are based in Cairo. Egypt, I have a long history

There at Mentor. Uh, I started the group and it became a very valuable resource to us for having cost-effective Engineers, who are very well educated. Very experienced the, uh, Cairo University and Ein shops have programs in Eda, and I found, that's a very good basis to build upon. So, uh, I put it all together. I think it's a great acquisition. I think you will see substantial growth next.

This year because of that. And I think the the interaction with Mel will greatly improve the performance of the existing sloco business and the 2 together will cause some substantial growth in the coming year.

Thanks.

1 moment for our next question.

Our next question comes from Blair Abernathy with Rosin Invite Securities. Your line is open.

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Uh, guys, I appreciate it. Um, I'm sorry, I missed a very beginning of the call, but I wanted to ask a little bit about the pipeline and and we, you know, I know you, you've only really been getting into the weeds of it for a couple of months now. But how are you thinking about the pipeline of the business as it as it stands and is, the is the ftco. Uh, how is that looking to you? I know it's a longer sales cycle, but how does that opportunity? Uh, look from your standpoint of this at this point.

Yeah, they well, first with regard to the overall pipeline, uh, there is a large base of very mature products that produce pretty stable, uh, uh, maintenance revenue and give the opportunity to grow each year. So, roughly half our total business can be generated just from those renewals, which, uh, don't require enormous amount of effort, uh, the rest of the business,

Slowly. Uh, there was a continuing expectation. Last year that we would announce additional customers that hasn't occurred. And the reason it hasn't occurred is there is an adoption process that uh, requires an extensive amount of interaction with the customer customizing, it to the uniqueness of, uh, their processes. And so it requires a funnel of customer opportunities and then a lot of resource to go with it so disappointment and how quickly it's Arisen optimism at what it can become and how it can take AI into 1 more branch of Eda that other people are not focusing on that SLO can and has the base business in tcad to build upon and create success as we bring on those additional customers.

Okay, great. Thank you for that. And then Chris the, um, just on the, uh, uh, cost expense savings. Um, you know, is this out of the Core Business is, is there any of the Acquisitions that you did this year that are impacted by that and and that you just to clarify? I said that you'll be completely done by the end of this fiscal.

Um, so a majority of it will be uh, we believe a majority of it will be out by the end of this fiscal year. So by the end of the year, you won't see the benefit of that. Really until uh, q1 just from a full quarters perspective and then the rest of it will come out. You know, through the 2026, uh, it is uh it costs areas are pretty. Broad, for example, you know, Mel had an office in California, we have a headquarters in California, so we can put those 2 together and kind of save costs there, we'll reduce the office Footprints and other places, uh, you know, it's mostly what I would call the Corso side of of the business is kind of what we're we're looking at, uh, when we do these actions. So it's again to get us, uh, to right size, the cost structure and then help us be more Nimble and focus on growth.

Okay great. Thanks very much, guys.

1 moment for our next question.

Our next question comes from Chris Shankar with TD cow, and your line is open.

Uh thanks for taking my question and Wally, welcome back and nice to have a seasoned operator at the health.

Oh, thank you. I had

I had 2 questions, maybe the first 1 for Chris.

Uh, when I look at it, Biden, it looks like the revenues are looking a little lighter. And, uh, you know, I thought the Q4 is seasonally strong for you. And if I look at the full year Revenue, guys, it's only up like 2%, despite all the Acquisitions. So, I'm kind of wondering. Are there any idiosyncratic things in Q4, or what is going on? I'm going to follow up for volume.

Okay. No, that's that's a very fair question. So, when we look at Q4, I think you're, right. I mean, in Q3, you know, the Mixel acquisition, for example, was a nominal addition to revenue. As you can see, in the numbers, it'll be a stronger contributor in 2026. There are some sequential growth there. Uh, in Q4 we're going to be stronger next year, techx is more of a stronger grower in 2026 as well. Uh, when we look at next quarter, I mean, you saw the Eda strength in Q3 based on how we recognize Revenue Eda will step down sequentially in Q4. But tcad and the IP business are expected to increase sequentially, which is how we landed on these numbers. I would just point to uh, what Wally said earlier. I mean there were some expectation that a second ftco uh, engagement would materialize sooner than expected. And we do, we're still working on several engagements, you know, we're still confident in that, but we're not seeing that uh, in Q4 of this year,

Got a super helpful question and volume, I'm just going to curious. Uh, do you have all the pieces of the pie to grow from here? Or do you need more MMA to complete the product Circle? Or is it a goal to increase term base or software licenses as a percentage of Revenue?

Create a clear path ahead. So we, we don't have to wait for the time that we accelerate our Acquisitions once again.

But it depends on volume. Welcome back.

Thank you again. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question or a comment at this time, please press *1, 1 on your telephone.

Our next question comes from Christian Schwab with Craig Howland Capital Group. Your line is open.

Great. Uh, um,

I just was regarding the $15 million in Opex reductions on a year-over-year basis. Should we assume that kind of comes from the midpoint of your Opex guidance for this quarter, meaning kind of...

68 million minus 15 to get to 53. Million is 53 million kind of the target or 55 or 51? This isn't crystal clear to me.

Uh, if this is Chris, I can take that one. So, uh, yeah, you can look at the midpoint of the guide. In Q4, at the starting point, I would just comment that the $15 million will be realized when all of the actions are implemented over the course of 2026. So you wouldn't expect it to be all, you know, uh, 25 to 26. It'll be, uh, it's mostly out by the end of this year. You'll see a benefit with Q1. The rest will.

Play out through the year, and so the full year-over-year impact would be less, just given the timing of the reductions. I hope that gives you a good sense of how we're looking at it.

Yeah, that helps. And then and, and, and Mixel it, it kind of sounded like, you know, there was some commentary about, you know, time to accelerate sales, Etc. I I know you guys had previously highlighted, you know that you expected you know, 3 to 5 million in Revenue quickly after closing the acquisition and the remainder of 205, um, I I assume you didn't attain that goal. Can you give us an idea of of

What you do anticipate selling then.

Uh, we didn't attend it in the third quarter. We we will see more growth in the fourth quarter. And uh, as you uh, alluded to. I think here the uh, the great machine of profitability in Eda is when you take a company with great product but limited distribution and combine it with the company that has worldwide distribution uh and maybe not as much in the way of products. That's the, the great way that the Eda industry grew, that's how Cadence started by acquiring ecad and then build upon it. And the same thing is true here. I think a Mixel is a great example, a have uh uh basically 1 sales person producing that uh the level of Revenue that they have today

You combine that with our sales force, and the inevitable result is that we can keep them fully loaded with demand, and then they can continue to add resources and grow the revenue. So that's, it's almost a perfect model for the kind of acquisition for which there is leverage for a company like Silvaco.

Right? And then my last question, you know, more longer term, you know, out of multi-year time frame basis. Um, you know, given, you know, given the products that you have in hand and and sounds like, no, um,

Meaningful acquisitions, you know, in the near term. You know, if we never made another acquisition again, um, you know, what type of topline growth prospects do you think the company has? Like a, a, a range of outcomes.

Well, the longer term clearly needs to be double digits. We're in an industry that's growing double digits, and we expect to gain share in the future. So, clearly, the long-term target is there. Uh, getting there, we are below that clearly today. And so, uh, we'll have to increase as we head through 2026, but I don't think the long term is 5 years away. I think it's much closer, and we can return certainly to low double digits. And then in the longer term, mid double digits as we move forward.

Perfect. Thank you know, other questions.

Again, ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question or a comment at this time, please press *1, 1 on your telephone.

And I'm not showing any further questions at this time. As such, this does conclude today's presentation. We thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect and have a wonderful day.