Q3 2025 EVgo Inc Earnings Call
Speaker #1: Thank you for standing by. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the EVgo third quarter 2025 earnings call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise.
Speaker #1: After the speakers are marked, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star, followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
Speaker #1: If you would like to withdraw your question, press star one again. Thank you. I would now like to turn the call over to Heather Davis.
Speaker #2: Good morning and welcome to EVgo's third quarter 2025 earnings call. My name is Heather Davis, and I am the Vice President of Investor Relations at EVgo.
Speaker #2: Joining me on today's call are Badar Khan, EVgo's Chief Executive Officer, and Paul Dobson, EVgo's Chief Financial Officer. Today, we will be discussing EVgo's third quarter 2025 financial results, followed by a Q&A session.
Speaker #2: Today's call is being webcast and can be accessed on the investor section of our website at investors.evgo.com. The call will be archived and available along with the company's earnings release and investor presentation after the conclusion of this call.
Speaker #2: During the call, management will be making forward-looking statements that are subject to risk and uncertainties including expectations about future performance. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations are detailed in our SEC filings including in the risk factor section of our most recent annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly reports on Form 10-Q.
Speaker #2: The company's SEC filings are available on the investor section of our website. These forward-looking statements apply as of today till we undertake no obligation to update these statements after the call.
Speaker #2: Also, please note that we will be referring to certain non-GAAP financial measures on this call. Information about these non-GAAP measures, including a reconciliation to the corresponding GAAP measures, can be found in the earnings materials available on the investor section of our website.
Speaker #2: With that, I'll turn the call over to Badar Khan, EVgo's CEO.
Speaker #3: Thank you, Heather. EVgo delivered another solid quarter of results. Furthering our position as an industry leader built for long-term success. We delivered total revenue of $92 million and record charging network revenues.
Speaker #3: We entered the quarter with almost 4,600 stalls in operation and expect to see a very large fourth quarter for stall deployment. And we continue to see improvement in adjusted EBITDA.
Speaker #3: From a liquidity standpoint, we are in a very strong position with a higher cash balance at the end of the quarter than last quarter.
Speaker #3: In October, we received the latest advance for $41 million from the DOE loan, which is being used to accelerate the nationwide build-out of EV charging infrastructure offering American drivers more choices on where they charge.
Speaker #3: As you recall from the last call, we closed on a first-of-its-kind transformational commercial financing facility in July for $225 million, with potential to expand up to $300 million.
Speaker #3: Which we believe reflects the confidence these banks have in the resilience of the cash flows generated by our ultra-fast charging infrastructure. We have now received two draws from this facility for a total of $59 million.
Speaker #3: We've expanded our pilot for J3400 connectors, more commonly known as NACs, and now have roughly 100 NACs cables installed. We're encouraged to see an increase in Tesla's charging at EVgo.
Speaker #3: And we continue to improve returns on capital deployed by lowering net CapEx per stall with 2025 vintage net CapEx per stall now expected to be lower than our initial plan by 27%.
With approximately 2/3 of our GNA, cost-based largely fixed today, this represents very strong operating leverage. In fact, excluding growth GNA evgo is already adjusted eida positive, but we are choosing to incur growth expenses, given the strong returns associated with deploying new stalls.
Making this even more attractive for investors. Is that we have the financing in place through 2029 to deploy all these new stalls without the need for any additional Equity capital.
The expected result is a very attractive business by 2029, with half a billion in adjusted EBITDA and mid-30s adjusted deeper margins.
Driven by both market and company-specific factors.
Average daily throughput crystal is an important KPI to view network performance, and it is growing, driven by both time-based utilization as well as charge rates, both of which have been growing for the past four years.
Rising charge rates are a significant Tailwind we benefit from as higher charge rates deliver, more kilowatt hours at the same, utilization level and 10 to result in higher levels of EV adoption in turn, increasing demand for our fast Chargers.
Higher charge rates, also improve Returns on Capital deployed, because they allow us to dispense more kilowatt hours from the existing assets without the need to deploy more capital.
Our charge rates come from improved Battery, Technology and EVS, as well as easy to go deploying more. 350 kilowatt Ultra fast, high-powered, infrastructure,
Average daily throughput. Bristol has grown more than 6-fold from less than 50 kilowatt hours in q1 2022, to 295 this quarter. And we conservatively assumed only slightly higher utilization by 2029, but with Rising charge rates we expect to see 450 to 500 average daily throughput by 2029.
This higher throughput pistol, combined with many more stalls deployed, is what has been and will continue to drive growth in revenues.
Not only have we been delivering some of the best performing usage across the industry. We're focused on ensuring our chargers perform to their maximum potential and can maintain increasing utilization rates.
Today nearly all stalls deployed are. 350, kilowatt Chargers, which delivered, almost 60% of our throughput in the quarter.
These Chargers are the most representative of our expected future network. Since we estimate well over 90% of our throughput in 2029, will come from these Chargers.
Utilization on the EVO network has surpassed others in the industry, our expectations and the expectations of the equipment providers.
This High usage, placed stress on our signature Chargers which were the first 350, kilowatt Chargers. We deployed after performing root cause analysis in conjunction. With Signet in 2024, we embarked on a number of tech enhancements and the year later Signet Chargers are performing very strongly with usage. Already close to our long-term Target in 2029.
We are now at a similar junction with our Delta Chargers, which have comprised almost all new builds. Starting in 2024, either GO is embarking on the same kind of tech enhancements we did with Signet. We're confident we will see the same strong performance step up as we've seen with the Signets. As an industry leader, we are focused on ensuring we have the best quality hardware through ongoing maintenance, periodic enhancements of specific components, and our next-generation charging stations, which we are actively developing at our innovation lab in Elso.
Our new generation of charging architecture is being designed, not only for a better experience at lower cost but also being developed and qualified for these higher levels of utilization from the start, this project is being led by the Evo team and features. A robust designed for reliability methodology, including best-in-class, Hardware design and software are taking into account. Our learnings, from our 15 years of experience, in EV charging and over 1.6 million customer accounts, all of which sets us apart from the rest of the industry.
The next generation of charging architecture is expected to lower aggro and capital expenditures (capex) per store by over 25% in 2029 versus 2023, delivering even stronger returns on capital deployed.
In the meantime, we've been driving down both gross and net capex for stall over the last 3 years. In 2025, vintage grows capex per store is expected to be 17% lower than 2023 driven by savings from lower contractor, pricing material sourcing and increased use of prefabricated skids.
When you include Capital offsets our capex for stall is expected to be reduced by 40%. Resulting in vintage. Net capex for stall of 75,000.
As a reminder, capital offsets come from three sources: state and utility incentives, OEM infrastructure payments, and federal incentives like 30C.
Quarter in order to capture some of these state grants, a certain number of stalls that were due to be operationalized in the second half of the year have shifted out by a few weeks lowering. The total number of stalls that we expect to deploy in calendar 2025.
Our long-term expectation is to continue lowering gross, capex per stall as a result of our next Generation architecture. But we conservatively assumed. We do not have the same level of offsets as we've seen in the past couple of years.
Let's now briefly turn to progress on our 4 key priorities, delivering a best-in-class. Customer experience operating in capex. Efficiencies capturing and retaining high-value customers and securing additional complimentary non-diluted financing to accelerate growth.
As we discussed earlier, our next Generation, charging architecture will take our customer experience to the next level. We've completed the enhancement of a number of components. In our Signet. 350, kilowatt Chargers and are now embarking on a similar campaign. For our Delta 350 kilowatt Chargers.
In terms of efficiencies, while the Next Generation charging architecture is expected to deliver capex efficiencies by 2027, we're making great progress in the near term too, lowering 2025 vintage net capex by 27% versus our plan for the year.
And we continue to see a reduction in GNA as a percent of revenue for 2025 versus prior years.
The EVgo app has now reached an overall rating of 4.5 on the Apple App Store, which is a key threshold above which we would expect to see accelerated organic customer acquisition. We’re thrilled with reaching this milestone.
Our next pilot has continued to expand from 2 sites. Last quarter to almost 100 stalls. As of the end of October. In this pilot, we'll continue to test our ability to attract native Max vehicles to our Network.
And we remain encouraged by the higher. Number of Tesla drivers at these stores than they had. Prior to installing the next cables, this is a key part of our iterative learning process before a much wider scale, roll out, plan for 2026.
And on financing, we've made excellent progress. This year, between continued advances under the DOE loan, closing the sale of our 2024 vintage 30C portfolio, and of course the transformational, first-of-its-kind commercial financing facility.
As we noted earlier, we expect 40% capital offsets for the 2025 vintage capex.
We have the financing in place to increase our annual store build to up to 5,000 stalls. A year by 2029 without the need for any new Equity capital.
Now Paul will share more detail on our third quarter results.
Thank you batter.
Operational growth is one of the key components of growing EVgo's revenue.
We ended Q3 with 4,590 stalls in operation, representing a 2.7 times increase compared to the end of 2021.
Our customer base has grown almost 5 times over that same period, which contributed to the network effect driving increased usage on our network.
We've grown the total energy to spend. It goes Network to 350, gigawatt hours over the trailing, 12 months of 13-fold increase over that same period.
Revenues of $333 million over the last 12 months have increased over 15 times since 2021.
Charging network gross margin has grown from the mid-teens to the mid- to high-30s, reflecting the leverage of fixed costs of sales on a personal basis. That's throughput for stall rises.
And importantly, we continue to deliver improving profitability, and adjusted EBITDA margin has made significant improvements driven by increasing revenues, leverage of fixed costs, and disciplined cost management.
Total throughput from the public network during the third quarter was 95 gigawatt hours. The 25% increase compared to last year.
Revenue per Q3 was 92 million which represents a 37% year-over-year. Increase the growth in all 3 Revenue categories.
Total charging network revenues were $56 million, exhibiting a 33% increase. Extended revenues were $32 million, reflecting a delivery growth of 46%.
Ancillary revenues were roughly $5 million, up 27%.
Charging Network gross margin in the third quarter was 35% upper percentage point.
48% versus the prior year.
Adjusted gross margin was 29% in Q3 and increase of 230 basis points.
Adjusted GNA as a percentage of revenue also improved from 40% in the third quarter of 2024 to 34% in Q3 of this year, demonstrating the operating leverage effect.
Adjusted EBITDA was -$5 million in the third quarter of 2025.
A million dollar approvement versus the third quarter of 2024.
Now, turning to our 2025 guidance.
We anticipate some of the public in dedicated stalls, we forecasted to be operationalized in December when now the open in January 2026.
As such, our EVgo public and dedicated stall expectation for the year is 700 to 750.
This shift in deployments to January will be reflected in our 2026 guidance, which we expect to issue with our Q4 results in early 2026.
However, we are increasing our expectation of the number of extend stalls. Operationalized this year to 550 to 575 due to the great progress. We've been seeing all year with our partner Pilot Flying J.
As a result Q4 is expected to represent a very big quarter for newly operationalized stalls.
Overall, we will deploy slightly fewer total stalls in 2025 compared to our guidance in Q2. However, the mix has changed, with fewer public and dedicated stalls and more extended stalls.
We have not only been focused on capital efficiency, but also on reducing the length of time it takes for us to develop and build stalls.
As a result. We now expect fiscal net capex for 2025. In the range of 100 to 110 million driven, primarily by less spend this year on 2026 engine stalls,
We are now forecasting a wide range of outcomes for the fourth quarter and full year, then we normally would, substantially due to a potential contract closeout payment to EVgo in relation to dedicated stalls. We were building for one of our autonomous vehicle partners that has decided to exit the robo-taxi business.
There is currently uncertainty on both the quantum and timing of these payments, and because the SEMO could be very significant, we are issuing a baseline guidance that does not include this item and an upside guidance that includes it.
our prior revenue and adjusted Eva guidance did a seam of a smaller range from this matter in 2025,
As the matter is progressed, we now believe the range of outcomes could be much wider.
In addition, the matter may not be concluded this year in May; it may slip into the new year.
For the full year 2025, we expect total baseline revenues to be in the $350 million to $365 million range, with baseline adjusted EBITDA in the negative $15 million to negative $8 million range.
Our Baseline revenue and adjusted ebit guidance for relatively in line with our prior view, excluding our prior estimate for the ancillary upside.
Including the auxiliary revenue upside of up to $40 million.
2025 revenues are expected to be in the range of $350 million to $405 million, with adjusted EBITDA in the negative $5 million to positive $23 million range.
There are a few moving parts for the applied Q4. So let's unpack those a bit.
Charging network revenues are estimated to be near 60% of total revenues for the full year, in line with prior guidance.
We're anticipating continued sequential Improvement in the fourth quarter.
We expect the 2025 charging Network margin profile to be consistent. The 2024?
Fourth quarter. Charging Network margin should improve compared to Q3 255.
Our extended business, with a pilot company, continues to perform better than expectations.
For your extend, revenues are anticipated to be approximately 30% higher, than prior year. Extend revenues slightly higher than prior guidance.
We'll be more than halfway through the build program with pilot by the end of this year. And thus, expect 2026 extend revenues to be similar to 2025
Potential upside.
Adjusted GNA for 2025 is expected to be approximately $125 million to $127 million for the full year.
In 2026, we are continuing to invest in growth. Therefore, anticipate GNA increasing by approximately 20%.
We expect to achieve adjusted EBITDA break-even in the fourth quarter at the midpoint of our baseline guidance. This is a significant milestone for the company.
Operator, we can now open the call for Q&A.
At this time, I would like to remind everyone that in order to ask a question, please press star, then the number 1 on your telephone keypad.
And your first question comes from the line of Chris Dendrinos with RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning. Thanks for taking the questions morning. Yeah. Um, I I guess maybe just start out here and and, you know, you mentioned some some commentary around, you know, the EV uh, demand Outlook and I know you wouldn't comment on it, but maybe could you kind of walk through how you're thinking about EV demand in relation to your longer term, Outlook and what are the puts and takes that would maybe make you, you know, slow slow development down or or speed development up? Thanks.
Yeah. Hey Chris.
Look, I think EVS uh the number of EVS in the road have grown. As you can see, 3 to 4 fold in the past 4 years. Um today there's around 100 like battery electric vehicle models available. And that's, you know, was probably about 30 4 years ago. We see these cars, there is increasingly affordable and just just great cars to drive.
uh,
You know, I think in some ways EV sales forecasts sometimes, to me anyway, feel like a pendulum swinging back and forth. They were probably too high a few years ago, and maybe the pendulum swung back. And maybe it's too low today, driven by a view of these incentives that have just expired. I actually think that we'll see higher sales than what the current forecasts show because the cars are just great to drive. They are, in many cases, getting better, and I think it's just a matter of time before they're cheaper.
Um,
As it relates to our business. The way we think about our uh charging stalls is of course whether we're able to generate the kind of strong Returns on Capital, we're generating today. And you can see, or most people can see that. We're we're at 2 or 2 to 3 year payback here.
As we look at the market, we think about the ratio of cars to fast chargers nationwide, and over the last several years, that ratio has been growing. This means there is more upside on usage per stall, and that's, in fact, what we've seen. We've seen our usage per stall go up 6-fold. We don't see that.
Picture getting any worse than today and therefore we, you know, if it gets better to the day then that's, you know, even better for us. If it's no worse than today, we will expect it to be deploying charging stalls that are generating the kind of returns that we are today. And that's how we think about the capital deployment in the business.
Got it. Thank you. And then as a follow-up, you know, you mentioned, um, you're seeing an uptick in Tesla's charging on your network with the rollout of that next cable. Can you maybe kind of quantify here what you're seeing in the early days? Thanks.
Yeah. I would say it's still a little too early to quantify or to give you a real quantification. We've gone from a couple of sites that we've talked about last quarter to almost a hundred cables as of the end of October.
Team here and myself are pretty excited about what we're seeing, uh, test the driver usage is higher, uh, at these sites, um, uh, than they were pre-installation. These are all retrofit. Uh, I expect that we will do what we've done, you know, and everything else in the business, which is, uh, you know, sort of a very database, um, analysis of the situation where
If we are, you know, Jenner continue to continue to have the kind of confidence we have today that we're able to put these retrofit cables at sites that are targeted sites. Close to, where we believe test the drivers live and work in 1. ER and we continue to see that uh that sort of um Tesla usage rise. Will look to scale roll out in 2026. I think we'll keep it, keep it at this sort of 100 level for other quarter or so, uh, make sure that we remain confident in the results and then really, scaling it out next year.
Got it. Thank you.
Yeah.
With JP Morgan, please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Good morning and thanks for taking the questions. Um yeah. I realize you're going to provide more granularity on on stall guidance for next year you give you give some framework for extend but
if you look at the the guys, assuming some of the push outs in the next year,
Your prior guidance from the middle of the year was around. I don't know. 1400 or so. 1350 to 1500 at the midpoint
I guess it. Conceptually should we think of that coming in lower, maybe perhaps towards where you had provided guidance at the start of 2025, which was more on the thousand to 1200 range. I'm just trying to get a sense of of how we should think about that as well as is really the bill plan over the next 5 years. Um should that be tracking more? Like what we saw at the start of the year, just trying to get a sense given the, the realities that we may be.
Obviously in negative year on year growth for Ev, you know, each EV demand for the for the next several quarters.
Yeah. Hey Bill. We
Haven't yet provided guidance for 2026 as as you said, uh, but I think looking back to what we said last quarter is actually a useful starting point. Um, and on our coal last quarter, we, you're exactly right. We said that we would expect to see, 1350 to 1500 stalls, uh, for 2026. And, and to be clear that was our owned and operated stalls at 1350 to 1500. That's
Public network, and our dedicated tools. So that's that's about double the rate of growth that we're at today, uh, this year in 2025,
The larger number that you mentioned, uh, was includes our extended stalls.
Uh, so we were at the sort of 800, uh, public and dedicated plus extend.
2020, uh, 5.
Uh, we now see 2025, you know, a little bit lower, more extended, a little less public and dedicated. But on the public and dedicated side, it's, uh, you know, we would be looking at, uh, about a doubling of what we're at.
This year for 2026 so we're we're pretty excited by it. We're generating the kind of returns that we'd expect that we didn't, you know, we're talking about for the last couple of years or the last several months or last several quarters. And as long as we are generating, those kind of returns, then we expect our shareholders who want us to to deploy that capital.
Thanks, thanks better. Um, I'd like to try to understand this this ancillary upside a bit more and just to be clear, this is not contemplated in your in your prior guidance, right? So and then if that's the case, trying to get a sense of what this closeout could mean for future Revenue impact. In other words, was there some sort of expectation that this dedicated sleep customer would have been continuing Beyond 2025 any additional color would be helpful here.
Yeah, so we we had assumed a smaller range. Um,
You know, from this, uh, contract blows out in 2025. In our product guidance, it was in the $10 million to $15 million range. And so if you look at our guidance today,
We're we're pretty much at the same place as we were last quarter. So if you just take today's Baseline guidance, excluding our updated view, add on the 10 to 15 million that we assume that our prior guidance in your pretty much the same place in terms of the the update. Um, you know, it is a, it's a, it's a, what a larger range. So the upside is quite a bit higher than we had thought earlier in this year. But also there could be a timing issue where it occurs it slips into into next year. We don't assume that this is a recurring thing bill. So this is, you know, we consider this a a 1-off and that's why we're separating it out. So you can see the trajectory very strong trajectory of the underlying Baseline business.
Yeah. Thanks for the update and tell her. Yeah.
Your next question comes from the line of Steven Jenaro with Stipho. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good morning everybody.
Uh, 2 things from me. I guess the F, the first is you talk about fourth quarter and and maybe getting to IAA break even at the midpoint of your guidance.
Can you just remind us as we sort of think about seasonal patterns? Uh as you get into 26 without specific numbers, should we be thinking about? This is when you get there you should stay there. Uh and then progress from there or there's some seasonal noise. We should be contemplating in our models just to make sure we're in line with how you're thinking about things.
Yeah, let me just let me talk about the seasonality point in this in just 1 second. Stephen the book but you're right the, the company has maybe have a macro level very strong operating leverage where around 2/3 of our GNA is, you know, kind of largely fixed. And so, when the growing profits from the charging Network exceed, those costs, all that profit goes, straight to the bottom line. I'm talking about charging Network, gross profit less sustaining GNA, and that's the point where ibitta really accelerates, uh, looking back. That's how we've gone from an 80 million dollar loss to approaching Break Even. Uh, and it's really how we get to half a billion in an adjustability, but down 4 to 5 years. Time into your question, more specifically around the near-term in Q4 this in, in Q3. And in Q4 this year, we still have gross profit from our non-chargeable.
Those fixed costs.
But in 2026, the charging Network profits. So again, that's a charging Network close profit lesser stating GNA will be higher without any contribution from our non-charged to cover those fixed costs. And that's where we see things really accelerate, and we think that'll be in the second half of next year. Uh, in terms of the seasonality point, we do have seasonality. We do see it in terms of the, uh, in terms of vehicle miles travel. So that
Is a little less.
VMT uh and therefore a little less throughput per store per day in the in a kind of q1 in the winter than in the summer.
We also see seasonality, which is not in terms of charge rates; charge rates tend to be a little lower in the winters than in the warmer summer months. We also observe seasonality in terms of gross charging gross margin, where we have higher cost of sales, energy cost of sales, and higher tariffs in the summer months. Those are probably the main sorts of seasonality things that we see.
You know, as I said once, once that charging Network grows, uh, profits exceed fixed costs, that's the point where you see the the IBA growth just really accelerate. And we're, we're getting closer and closer to that point, pretty excited by it.
Great, thank you. And then my other question was just around industry Dynamics and how, how do you think about? I mean, you've laid things out very well as far as your plans through 29. How do you think about?
Just the number of players in the industry industry consolidation uh in in the US market. And how do you think that plays out over the next couple of years?
yeah, I mean look we we are um we're we're we think that we've got a number of sources of competitive Advantage where
Specifically, we we focus very much on site selection. So building sites where drivers are uh, and and as a result generally, the kind of returns that we're generating today. We don't? We do not see that across the rest of the industry, either. They're people are focused on chasing, you know, uh, you know, federal grants, uh, that may not necessarily be the most productive sites or their goal isn't necessarily to to maximize returns and charging. But, uh, you know on but but in terms of encouraging people to buy electric vehicles, we know that charging charging or range anxiety is alongside the upfront. Price, 1 of the 2, biggest reasons for, uh, for, you know, for even faster, adoption of electric vehicles. And so some companies are uh, focusing on building charging stations to sell cars.
Uh, when we think about, you know, we've got to scale.
That translates to advantages and customer experience: the remote monitoring diagnostics, the kind of marketing, dynamic pricing. I talked about every quarter about the supply chain relationships; we discussed those relationships in the call today. You know, these are not things that we see with many others in the space. The average number of charging stations across this industry, among our competitors, is significantly smaller than us.
And so, you know, when I think about these advantages Next Generation architecture or balance sheet, it it seems to me that, uh, we'd expect to see a a smaller number of competitor of other peers in the network, uh, in the industry. Um, I, I'm
Network because we've got faster charging uh, stations and, and better located sites. So I mean that's maybe, uh, 1 way of thinking about this landscape.
Perfect. Yeah, thank you for the details.
Yeah.
Your next question comes from the line of Craig Irwin with Roth Capital, our partners, please go ahead.
Uh, good morning and thanks for taking my questions.
So Bonner, I I was hoping we could dig in a little bit more on the the experience you're seeing out there with the uh, the new knacks connectors, right. Um, you know, this is an exciting opportunity for you given the size of the, uh, the Tesla Fleet. Um, and that, you know, it's early days for the oems to cut over to the next connector where where they're heading longer term. Um, can you maybe, um, unpack for us what the actual utilizations are or early experiences on utilization, around, um, around Max? I mean, are you seeing the tester drivers? Come back repetitively to the same locations. Use multiple locations. Um, and, you know, how should we think about the, um, the build here and the tempo and and what would you use to, to, to guide your, um, your change out of additional locations in the future? You know, Are there specific uh, data points or or um,
Other metrics you would use to uh, you know, to guide the uh the the adoption of these cables.
Yeah, I'm wondering we, you know, we are completely agree with you. That the upside here is quite significant
as you said, and we've talked about on the prior calls. There are, uh, there's a significant amount of the vehicle Fleet, uh, that our Tesla vehicles that are generally not charging on our charging stations and so being able to access, you know, roughly half of all the io and it was just a giant step up for us, and so we're pretty excited by it.
We also know that switching out a CCS cable that is very productive. I mean, we can see, we're at an average of almost 300, kilowatt hours per store per day.
Across the network is not something that we want to, you know. We don't, we're not something we want to take for granted. And so, we are being very thoughtful about switching out the CCS cables with these next cables. It does take us
a few months to ramp up, uh, throughput per store on our CCS cables with with drivers that are very familiar with easygo. And so we want to make sure that we're we're being thoughtful about that switch over and attracting tester vehicles. And the early part of the year was all about making sure that we've got cables that can withstand the high power. So these are liquid core cables and we've got
The right technology. And I think we've proven that we've gone up to 100 cables as of the end of October and we're going to spend some months. Now, making sure that um, we're learning everything, we need to be learning in terms of all the questions that you asked.
What is the behavior of Tesla? Uh, drivers in terms of the the charging stations repeat uh, at the same location? Other locations. How are they identifying Evo stations? How can we help them to identify and locate our stations even better? We expect in 2026 when we issue our guidance, that this will be a fairly uh, key part of our stool, uh rollout schedule. As I said before, I expect a lot of a 2026 will be retrofit. I do expect to be a scale roll out of the next cables, next year. And again, attracting roughly half the market that isn't really, uh, charging in our state, in our Network today, that could be a big source of upside.
uh, and for the new stations at some point in 2026,
Perhaps around the middle of the year uh new charging stations from the get-go. Not just retrofit will include the next cables, but you're going to have to wait until uh our guidance for 2026 before we reveal that as always, Greg, I think as you've seen, we're going to be pretty thoughtful and pretty and go about all this.
Understood that definitely makes sense.
so, my next question, um, is about Dynamic pricing, um, you know, in your past couple of calls, uh, you've shared some, some, some real points of success where that's actually driven, uh, you know, much better utilization for for the network and the overnight
Uh, can you maybe?
Share some more detail with us on on where you stand with Dynamic pricing, you know, the peak to trough, uh, variance in in rates. Um, the geographic, uh, success. Um, you know what, what should we be looking at to understand this business and what it could mean, for evgo, uh, you know, over over the next number of quarters
Calling the sort of the first version or 1.0 if you will of that Dynamic pricing across our entire network. We roll that out. Uh, I want to say throughout 2020 uh 4. Um maybe late 2024, actually, I should say
and um, we
Have it across all geographies across all charging stations, there is some limit. There are some limitations around the number of um, you know, uh combinations of prices and the frequency of change uh which will come through our next version. Our next iteration of dynamic pricing. We were expecting that to be in the fourth quarter of this year. Craig, but we've got such a large, a fourth quarter buildout, uh,
I think as you as you will have heard from Paul, we've got about, you know, 350 to 400 stalls that will be deploying. This is public uh, and the dedicated store, so the old and operated Network in the fourth quarter. And uh, so the extent stores on top of that, we felt that it was
More more sensible to get, not not to try and take on too many things. So the next exploration of our Dynamic pricing will get rolled out in this. In the first at the end of the first quarter of next year, uh, in terms of what the impact is. I mean, you can see our
Revenue per kilowatt hours, pretty flat with growing throughput, for all obviously, very happy about that. We see double digit utilization in the overnight hours, uh, which I think is pretty extraordinary and we're talking about 3:00 in the morning. Uh, a lot of that is all through Dynamic pricing, uh, and our, and our approach to the way that we communicate with our customers. So shifting usage from peak times to off peak, or overnight hours. And these are all the kind of things that we're deploying that results in. Uh, growing throughput per store growing utilization. While minimizing, uh, you know, weight times or queuing times and providing opportunities for customers to charge at rates that are appropriate for them.
Thank you for that. If I could sneak in a a third 1, the um,
Autonomous vehicle Fleet out there is growing, right? There's uh many more cities where we're seeing adoption and uh, you know, Vehicles training, um you know, new vehicles in commercial operation. Um, but but many cities training um, and uh, you know, I'm going to guess that, uh, some of these leading, um, leading companies are using the, uh, the Evo, the Evo Network, um, or at least their own proprietary stations, you know, built and managed by Evo.
Um, how does revenue recognition work for you on these on these things when they're in training? Are they actually, you know, generating Revenue already on the, uh, on the EVO Network. Um, are they already customers? Or do we see site commissioning, when they go commercial? Um, and uh, you know, how how do we think about Fleet growth correlating to, you know, demand growth for Ev? Is this, is this something that should be sort of 1 to 1? Or is this something that, that happens sort of an increments or steps? Any caller there for us to understand the, uh, you know, how these these businesses are interconnected?
Yeah. Look the your the both the acts going on the autonomous vehicles are you know too big uh uh sources of upside for the company over the coming years. Um and we completely agree with you that we see that autonomous vehicles as a potentially very significant uh and very interesting source of upside. I do see the space flowing uh, potentially very quickly. These are all electric vehicles and they'll all be needing to be charged at uh, fast charging sites, not slow charging. And yes, we are working with all the leading players in the EV space in in the EV space. Uh in terms of building dedicated sites for these 80 Partners today, the way that we are Contracting with them, we've got
effectively, a, a monthly, uh, you know, rent, uh, so, you know, dollars, uh, per per store per month from when the store is operational, uh, whether anything is charging there or not,
No, that's that's good about it. That's um, that's pretty much how it works. They are, they are long-term contracts with basically a fixed fee. A fixed monthly fee. That's some cash flow that we received.
But because some of these are long-term contracts, I shouldn't say they all are, but some of them are long-term contracts. Under accounting, it's considered to be a deemed sale. So, the sales account...
So with some of them with the longer term contracts, we do recognize a gain on sale, on the construction costs. So there's a markup to what we think is fair market value for this site and then that gain is recognized in the site goes live. When the, when the customer or the client takes over the partner takes over the site.
And then after that, it is basically the operating cash flows for maintaining the site that we received, and we have that gain on sale. We're bringing forward some of the economic value, and so that creates a receivable. So then, when we receive the money in, we draw down that receivable over time for the life of the contract. So it's a bit tricky. I know that we said last time that we'll do a webinar or teach-in on how it all works. Um, we'll just sort of provide, you know, annual guidance as to where we think in total and so that we could.
The excellent. Well, you've confirmed for me that it's an exciting business, and I think that's what investors really mean. So, congratulations on the progress across the board.
Thanks so much Craig.
Again, if you would like to ask a question press star 1 on your telephone keypad and your next question comes from the line of Brett, castelli with Morning Star, please go ahead.
Hi, good morning, just sticking with autonomy. Um, I wanted to come back to this contract, closeout here, that you talked about, and really understand more medium. And long term, does that at all Impact, sort of the prior range of expectations? You gave us in terms of um stalls and build out for that particular uh, part of the network.
Uh no it does not. So the um uh the range that we provided last quarter on the last quarterly earnings call for public and dedicated Bill targets. Uh you know, remain remain valid remain the same as they are.
Uh, as the last upfront, uh, next year we were looking at 1,350 to 1,500 public and dedicated. The majority of that is public.
Have not, we have not yet broken out how many are public versus dedicated. Dedicated are these goals for autonomous vehicle. Uh, Partners as Craig said, I think that that remains a very, very exciting and very interesting source of upside, we just need to make sure that the, you know, if we are doing a significantly more dedicated stalls, that they are leading our return expectations.
That the economics are attractive for us. We can see very strong and very attractive economics for our public network.
And so the the contract flows out, there's really 1
1 company that was uh going to get in the robot taxi space in a in a pretty big way that facility to exit. But there are many others that are
That are.
Building up these businesses and we're working with them all.
Okay.
And then I just want to ask on the charging Network gross margin, we've seen more muted or as an expansion within that line item here in 2025.
Can you remind me for the drivers behind that and then how we should think about margin expansion within that line item in 2026?
Thanks.
Yeah, so maybe I'll just start and then pull. I can ask you just to sort of provide the phone details, and we are seeing Charging, Mar Charging Network gross margin expand year over year. There is seasonality, so Q3 is seasonally the lowest.
margin percent typically quarter over the course of the year because we have to higher summer Tires. We saw that last year. You see that this year this year is higher than last year, year over year. Um, and the, the operating leverage, we got 2 sources of operating leverage 1 in the GNA, which we talked about earlier and then operating leverage within the charging Network cost of sales, where about 30% of that is fixed. And so it's usage per store grows. Uh, that margin just expands
Sure. Yeah, so when, when we look over year over year
And say, I'll talk about q1 24 first. So, in, in that quarter we did have, uh, a large amount of breakage Revenue which has got a 100% margin of it. So that's, that's customer. Um, credits when they expire we we recognize that as, as revenue and as margin and that increased q1 24, if you took that out and it just looked at 24 by quarter versus, uh, 25 by quarter, it generally shows an increase, a couple percentage Point increase,
Quarter over quarter, if you look at where we are in Q3 2025, we have $255 million, which is a 35% increase, about a 1% increase over Q2.
In 24 that increase from Q3 to Q4 was a 6 percentage points. And then, the prior year was about 5 percentage points.
so, we would expect Q4 25 to follow a similar pattern in the
You know, 6 to 7 percentage points higher in Q3 this year. And we see that comp pattern continuing to move up steadily, as we've shown in our... as we get the operating leverage.
Um, as we've shown in our unit economics as well. So uh when you correct for a couple of those things and then look at the like quarter of the quarter and think about the seasonality, I do think you see Improvement.
That's great. Thank you. I'll leave it there.
Pierce with Native and Company, please go ahead.
Hey, good morning everyone. Uh, just 1 question for me, if I look at last quarter, if we calculate ASP per kilowatt, uh, There Was, You Know, mid double digit increase, and then it's kind of high single digit increase kind of moving down sequentially in the third quarter. I just want to understand how I think about
The pricing levers, you guys are pulling and have available kind of going back to price. Question on Dynamic pricing or is it that OEM Revenue sort of distorted things in the second quarter and made things look a little more um robust than they actually were. I just kind of want to get a sense of pricing across the buckets there, and how to think about ASP for a lot.
Yeah, Paul. Do you want to take that? Oh yeah. So what would I look at? The pricing, the charging revenues.
Overall, I see Q2 versus Q3 to be broadly flat and I see the course of costs.
The energy cost in particular, increasing in Q3, as we talked about because of you know, summer tariffs.
The seasonality there. So we see um you know, a bit of a a bit of a squeeze um in the margin of Q3 as as expected. But as I mentioned before uh our pricing, our pricing is been generally pretty steady and our margins have been showing that the general increase overall, which we expect to continue into Q4 and follow a similar pattern into 26, as well.
There is some, you know, mix effects. Um, when we look at pricing, we have to, we have to think about where, where the volume of energy is coming from and being dispensed to, but it's been broadly, black, uh, across the portfolio from the quarter.
Okay, perfect. Thank you.
No further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back over to about our con for closing remarks.
Great. Well, thank you everybody. We had another solid quarter, a great operational performance and you know, heading strategic milestones. We can clearly see that we're nearing the inflection to adjust the D but D break even and with the operating leverage that we have, we can see accelerated uh ibida growth uh coming soon and I look forward to
The sharing, I promise with you in the next call. Thanks everybody.
Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call, thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect