Q2 2026 BE Semiconductor Industries NV Earnings Call

July 23, 2026

Operator: Andrea Kopp-Battaglia, Senior Vice President of Finance. Currently, all participants are in a listen-only mode, and later we will conduct a question and answer session. Instructions will follow at that time. As a reminder, ladies and gentlemen, this conference is being recorded and cannot be reproduced in whole or in part without written permission from the company. I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Richard Blickman.

Speaker #1: Rhea Hope, Senior Vice President of Finance. Currently all participants are in a listen-only mode and later we will conduct a Q&A session. Instructions will follow at that time.

Speaker #1: As a reminder, ladies and gentlemen, this conference is being recorded and cannot be reproduced. In-hall or in part with our written permission from the company.

Speaker #1: I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Richard Blickman.

Speaker #2: Thank you. Thank you all for joining the call today. I'd like to remind everyone that on today's call management will be making forward-looking statements.

Richard Blickman: Thank you all for joining the call today. I'd like to remind everyone that on today's call, management will be making forward-looking statements. All statements other than statements of historical facts may be forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements reflect Besi's current views and assumptions regarding future events, many of which are by nature inherently uncertain and beyond Besi's control. Actual results may differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements due to various risks and uncertainties, including, but not limited to, factors that are discussed in the company's most recent periodic and current reports filed with the AFM. Such forward-looking statements, including guidance provided during today's call, speak only as of this date. Besi does not intend to update them in light of new information or future developments, nor does Besi undertake any obligation to update the forward-looking statements.

Speaker #2: All statements other than statements of historical facts may be forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements reflect BESI's current views and assumptions regarding future events, many of which are by nature inherently uncertain and beyond BESI's control.

Speaker #2: Actual results may differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements due to various risks and uncertainties. Including but not limited to factors that are discussed in the company's most recent periodic and current reports filed with the AFM.

Speaker #2: Such forward-looking statements, including guidance provided during today's call, speak only as of this date. BESI does not intend to update them in light of new information or future developments, nor does BESI undertake any obligation to update the forward-looking statements.

Speaker #2: For today's call, we'd like to review the key highlights of our second quarter. Six months ended June 30, 2026, and update you on the market, our strategy, and the outlook.

Richard Blickman: For today's call, we'd like to review the key highlights of our Q2, H1 ended 30 June 2026, and update you on the market, our strategy and the outlook. First, some overall thoughts on Q2 and H1 2026. Besi reported strong Q2 and H1 2026 results as favorable order momentum continued for both our traditional and wafer level assembly systems. Revenue of EUR 249.9 million, increased by 68.7% and 35.2% versus Q2 last year and Q1 2026, respectively. Growth versus Q2 last year was primarily due to increased AI spending for photonics, data center, and hybrid applications, as well as increased demand for mobile applications. Additional hybrid orders were received in Q2 this year from two repeat customers and one new hyperscaler customer.

Speaker #2: First, some overall thoughts on the second quarter and first half 2026. Basis reported strong second quarter and first half year 2026 results as favorable order momentum continued for both our traditional and wafer-level assembly systems.

Speaker #2: Revenue of EUR 249.9 million increased by 68.7% and 35.2% versus the second quarter last year, and Q1 2026 respectively. Growth versus the second quarter last year was primarily due to increased AI spending for photonics, data center, and hybrid applications, as well as increased demand for mobile applications.

Speaker #2: Additional hybrid orders were received in the second quarter this year from two repeat customers and one new hyperscaler customer. Similarly, orders of €292.9 million rose by 128.8% versus the second quarter last year, and 8.6% versus the first quarter of this year.

Richard Blickman: Similarly, orders of EUR 292.9 million rose by 128.8% versus Q2 last year, and 8.6% versus Q1 of this year. Of note, Besi's orders for the last 12 months increased to a record of EUR 987.6 million. Q2 net income of EUR 89 million increased by 177.3% versus Q2 last year, and 72.5% versus Q1 2026 as gross margins improved and OpEx growth was limited despite increased spending for development and customer support activities. Similarly, net margins increased to 35.6% versus 21.6% in Q2 last year. For H1, Besi's revenue amounted to EUR 434.7 million, and net income of EUR 140.6 million increased by 48.8% and 121.1% respectively versus H1 2025, primarily due to significantly expanded AI infrastructure spending, a modest recovery in traditional mobile and industrial markets, and disciplined overhead management.

Speaker #2: Of note, basis orders for the last 12 months increased to a record of EUR 987.6 million Q2 net income of 89 million EUR, increased by 177.3% versus the second quarter last year, and 72.5% versus Q1 2026, as gross margins improved and operating expense growth was limited despite increased spending for development and customer support activities.

Speaker #2: Similarly, net margins increased to 35.6% versus 21.6% in the second quarter last year. For the first half year, BESI revenue amounted to €434.7 million and net income of €140.6 million, increased by 48.8% and 121.1%, respectively, versus the first half of 2025, primarily due to significantly expanded AI infrastructure spending, a modest recovery in traditional mobile and industrial markets, and disciplined overhead management.

Speaker #2: Similarly, net margins increased from 21.7% in the first half of 2025 to 32.3% in the first half of 2026, aided by improved gross margins and significant operating leverage in our business model as baseline operating expenses reduced from 30% of revenue in Q2 last year to 18.9% in Q2 2026.

Richard Blickman: Similarly, net margins increased from 21.7% in H1 2025 to 32.3% in H1 2026, aided by improved gross margins and significant operating leverage in our business model as baseline operating expenses reduced from 30% of revenue in Q2 2025 to 18.9% in Q2 2026. H1 orders rose to EUR 562.6 million, an increase of EUR 302.7 million, or 116.5% versus H1 2025 due to broad-based growth across all Besi end user markets and products. Order growth was strong for photonics and data center applications and hybrid bonding capacity expansion for both current and next generation AI devices. We also received new orders for AI power management applications in Q2 2026 from multiple customers.

Speaker #2: H1 orders rose to EUR 562.6 million and increased of 312.7 million EUR or 116.5% versus the first half of last year due to broad-based growth across all basis end-user markets and products.

Speaker #2: Order growth was strong for photonics and data center applications, and for hybrid bonding capacity expansion for both current and next-generation AI devices. We also received new orders for AI power management applications in the second quarter this year, from multiple customers.

Speaker #2: Overall, we estimate that system orders for AI applications rose to approximately 60% in the first half of this year, versus approximately 50% in the first half of last year.

Richard Blickman: Overall, we estimate that system orders for AI applications rose to approximately 60% in H1 2026 versus approximately 50% in H1 2025. In addition, we saw renewed growth for high-end smartphone applications in H1 2026 versus cyclical lows reached in 2025, due primarily to incremental capacity purchases and new product introductions planned for 2026. Our net cash position at the end of Q2 2026 increased by 58.8% versus 31 March 2026 to reach EUR 164 million. Growth was primarily due to the conversion into equity of Besi EUR 175 million of convertible notes due 2029, and strong cash flow from operations, which offset the payment of EUR 125.4 million for the annual dividend paid out in Q2 2026.

Speaker #2: In addition, we saw renewed growth for high-end smartphone applications in the first half of this year, versus cyclical lows reached in 2025, due primarily to incremental capacity purchases and new product introductions planned for 2026.

Speaker #2: Our net cash position at the end of the second quarter 2026 increased by 58.8% versus March 31 of this year, to reach €164 million.

Speaker #2: Growth was primarily due to the conversion into equity of basis 175 million EUR of convertible notes due to 2029, and strong cash flow from operations, which offset the payment of 125.4 million EUR for the annual dividend paid out in the second quarter of this year.

Speaker #2: Next, I'd like to discuss the current market environment and provide an update on our strategy. Overall, we see favorable industry conditions this year due to the ongoing AI infrastructure build, capacity shortages—particularly in memory and in cores—and renewed unit growth for both AI and traditional mainstream end markets.

Richard Blickman: Next, I'd like to discuss the current market environment and an update on our strategy. Overall, we see favorable industry conditions this year due to the ongoing AI infrastructure build, capacity shortages, particularly in memory and in CoWoS, and CoWoS-like, and renewed unit growth for both AI and traditional mainstream end markets. Similarly, we see ongoing improvement in assembly equipment market conditions as the impact of AI spending and the recovery in traditional mobile industrial applications becomes more apparent. The latest TechInsights forecast calls for 53% market growth between 2025 and 2028. We expect to significantly exceed such projected growth rates, given our leadership position in 2.5D and 3D advanced packaging and wafer level assembly. We continue to execute well on our strategic plan presented in 2025 for both revenue and cost initiatives.

Speaker #2: Similarly, we see ongoing improvement in assembly equipment market conditions, as the impact of AI spending and the recovery in traditional mobile and industrial applications becomes more apparent.

Speaker #2: The latest tech insights forecast calls for 53% market growth between 2025 and 2028. We expect to significantly exceed such projected growth rates given our leadership position in 2.5D and 3D advanced packaging and wafer-level assembly.

Speaker #2: We continue to execute well on our strategic plan presented last year for both revenue and cost initiatives. Orders have already exceeded peak levels from the last cycle, and disciplined expense management has enhanced our profit potential.

Richard Blickman: Orders have already exceeded peak levels from the last cycle, and disciplined expense management has enhanced our profit potential. We are adjusting our operating model, supply chain, and service support activities accordingly. Progress also continued on our wafer level assembly agenda this year. Hybrid bonding customers adoption increased from 15 in 2025 to 21 at the end of Q2 2026. Use cases increased for logic, memory, co-packaged optics, and consumer applications, and orders increased material versus H1 2025 as significant new capacity was added. In addition, there were multiple new product announcements made this year related to data center and consumer CPU applications utilizing hybrid bonding. Progress also was made on our TC Next agenda, with increased revenue and customer adoption versus H1 2025. Now, a few words about our guidance.

Speaker #2: We are adjusting our operating model, supply chain, and service support activities accordingly. Progress also continued on our wafer-level assembly agenda this year. Hybrid bonding customer adoption increased from 15 a year ago to 25, and then to 21 at the end of Q2 2026. Use cases increased for logic, memory, co-package optics, and consumer applications, and orders increased materially versus the first half of 2025, as significant new capacity was added.

Speaker #2: In addition, there were multiple new product announcements made this year, related to data center and consumer CPU applications utilizing hybrid bonding. Progress also was made on our TC next agenda, with increased revenue and customer adoption versus the first half of last year.

Speaker #2: Now, a few words about our guidance. We see order momentum continuing in the third quarter of this year, due to ongoing demand strength for current and future AI applications, as well as improvement in basic traditional mainstream end-user markets.

Richard Blickman: We see order momentum continuing in Q3 of this year due to ongoing demand strength for current and future AI applications, as well as improvement in Besi's traditional mainstream end user markets. Customers indicate that we are in a multi-year AI CapEx cycle, further supported by increased demand for agentic AI applications, which are driving increased demand for data center CPUs and many of our advanced packaging systems. Besi's strategy is currently focused on expanding our opportunities in wafer level assembly, increasing our penetration of CoWoS, and photonics markets, and ramping our supply chain and service support capabilities in alignment with market conditions. Based on our backlog and feedback from customers, we anticipate Besi's Q3 2026 revenue will increase by 10% to 15% versus Q2 of this year.

Speaker #2: Customers indicate that we are in a multi-year AI capex cycle, further supported by increased demand for agentic AI applications, which are driving increased demand for data center CPUs and many of our advanced packaging systems.

Speaker #2: Basis strategy is currently focused on expanding our opportunities and wafer-level assembly, increasing our penetration of cores, co-posts, and photonics markets and ramping our supply chain and service support capabilities in alignment with market conditions.

Speaker #2: Based on our backlog and feedback from customers, we anticipate the base third quarter 2026 revenue will increase by 10 to 15% versus the second quarter of this year.

Speaker #2: In addition, gross margins are anticipated to decrease to a range between 63% and 65% due to a less favorable product mix than we had in the second quarter of 2026.

Richard Blickman: Gross margins are anticipated to decrease to a range between 63% and 65% due to a less favorable product mix than we had in Q2 2026. Operating expenses are anticipated to be flat to up 5%, due primarily to increased development spending. That ends my prepared remarks. I would like to open the call for questions. Operator.

Speaker #2: Operating expenses are anticipated to be flat to up 5%, due primarily to increased development spending. That ends my prepared remarks. I would like to open the call for questions.

Speaker #2: Operator.

Speaker #1: Ladies and gentlemen, we're now ready to take your questions. We kindly request that you limit your questions to one question and a follow-up. Our first question comes from BJ Semama from Bank of America.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, we are now ready to take your questions. We kindly request that you limit your questions to one question and a follow-up. Our first question comes from Didier Scemama from Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Speaker #1: Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: Yes, good afternoon. I hope you're well. I just wanted to ask you a quick question on the Q4 bookings outlook, Richard. If you could tell us a little bit more about what contributes to your confidence in the strength of that order intake momentum.

Didier Scemama: Yes. Good afternoon. I hope you are well. Wanted to ask you a quick question on the Q4 bookings outlook, Richard. If you could tell us a little bit more about the contribution to your confidence about the strength of that order intake momentum. Is that also driven by memory? If you could give us an update on your thoughts on the adoption for HBM4E, that would be great.

Speaker #3: Is that also driven by memory and if you could give us an update on your thoughts on the adoption for HBM4E, that would be great.

Speaker #2: Excellent, BJ. By the way, you asked Q4, but let me focus on Q3 first.

Richard Blickman: Excellent, Didier. By the way, you asked Q4, but let me focus on Q3 first.

Speaker #3: Sorry, I meant Q3. I meant Q3. Sorry.

Didier Scemama: Sorry. I meant Q3. Sorry.

Speaker #2: No. No problem. As we indicated, we see continued momentum for the business for the second quarter. But your question is very important. From the, let's say, aspect of how that will develop for the different applications.

Richard Blickman: No problem. As we indicated, we see continued momentum for the business for Q2. Your question is very important from the, let's say, aspect of how that will develop for the different applications. We certainly expect in Q3, continued orders for hybrid bonding. As we have said on the previous quarter calls, whether that was February or also end of April, we're in a very interesting, exciting moment in time for the adoption of hybrid bonding for HBM applications, whether that is HBM4E or even HBM3. As we speak, evaluations are going on at one of the three memory companies in our industry. Also, we've indicated that another one is starting the evaluation currently.

Speaker #2: And we certainly expect in the third quarter continued orders for hybrid bonding. And as we have said on the previous quarter calls, whether that was February or also end of April, we're in a very interesting exciting moment in time for the adoption of hybrid bonding for HBM applications, whether that is HBM4E or even HBM3.

Speaker #2: As we speak, evaluations are going on at one of the major—one of the three—memory companies in our industry. Also, we've indicated that another one is starting the evaluation currently.

Speaker #2: So it will be exciting to see the outcome in the third quarter, but also into the fourth quarter. How much and which application then will be using the hybrid bonding technology.

Richard Blickman: It will be exciting to see the outcome in Q3, but also into Q4, how much and which application then will be using the hybrid bonding technology. There's a lot of, let's say, views of how this will develop in the industry currently. Some are voicing that it may delay. Others are voicing that it is imminent. In that exciting landscape, Besi, with its hybrid bonding technology, together with Applied Materials in automated line concepts, is at the forefront of this technology being used in the memory. As we indicated in the prepared notes, we see continued adoption in the logic arena. We've added three more customers this quarter, one being an hyperscaler. That is for the use of the future classes. There are many other applications which are developed and in test applications currently using this hybrid technology.

Speaker #2: There's a lot of, let's say, views of how this will develop. In the industry currently, some are voicing that it may delay. Others are voicing that it is imminent.

Speaker #2: So in that exciting landscape, basis with its hybrid bonding technology, together with applied materials in automated line concepts, is at the forefront of this technology being used in the memory.

Speaker #2: As we indicated in the prepared notes, we see continued adoption in the logic arena. We've added three more customers this quarter. One being a hyperscaler.

Speaker #2: That is for the use of the future glasses. But there are many other applications which are developed and in test applications currently using this hybrid technology.

Speaker #2: So, broadening the applications is a fact, to 21 customers so far. So anyway, a bit longer answer to your question: it will be very exciting to see how the third quarter will pan out.

Richard Blickman: Broadening the applications is a fact to 21 customers so far. Anyway, a bit longer answer to your question. It will be very exciting to see how Q3 will pan out.

Speaker #3: Okay, very clear, Richard. And for my follow-up, I wanted to ask you a little bit about how you’re thinking about mobile. So, one, you said that you have seen some improvement in the mobile business from a very depressed level.

Didier Scemama: Okay. Very clear, Richard. For my follow-up, I wanted to ask you a little bit about how you're thinking about mobile. One, you said that we have seen, or you have seen some improvement in the mobile business from a very depressed level. As we move into H2, and in particular Q4 and Q1, normally the order intake is dominated by the refresh of high-end smartphones. Any thoughts around that? Also related to high-end smartphones, what are your thoughts on the adoption of hybrid bonding in high-end smartphones over the course of 2027 and 2028?

Speaker #3: As we move into the second half, and in particular Q4 and Q1, normally the order intake is dominated by the refresh of high-end smartphones.

Speaker #3: So, any thoughts around that? And also, related to high-end smartphones, what are your thoughts on the adoption of hybrid bonding in high-end smartphones over the course of 2027 and 2028?

Speaker #2: Well, first of all, we made the comment because we have received significantly more orders so far this year compared to last year. As we called last year, sort of a cyclical trough.

Richard Blickman: Well, first of all, we made the comment because we have received significantly more orders so far this year compared to last year, as we called last year, sort of a cyclical trough. That is always driven by new features or updated features like, for instance, new cameras. Also other components in those high-end smartphones are, in a way, cyclical because of new designs in next generations. As we indicated, we have enjoyed a significant improvement in orders in that front. At the same time, we mentioned 3 months ago that we saw the first adoption of hybrid bonding, a hybrid bonded device, the M5, into high-end laptops, and they should find a way at some point into the high-end smartphones.

Speaker #2: And that is always driven by new features or updated features like, for instance, new cameras. But also other components in those high-end smartphones are in a way cyclical because of new designs in next generations.

Speaker #2: And as we indicated, we have enjoyed a significant improvement in orders in that front. At the same time, we mentioned three months ago that we saw the first adoption of hybrid bonding.

Speaker #2: Hybrid bonded device, the M5, into high-end laptops. And they should find their way at some point into the high-end smartphones. Not yet we have seen those orders, but if you look at the simply the plan for capacity expansion in Taiwan, as we have started now to fill the AP7 with the first systems, which is publicly informed to the world, we should see in the next quarters how that capacity is also expanded for other applications than for logic devices so far.

Richard Blickman: Not yet we have seen those orders, but if you look at simply the plan for capacity expansion in Taiwan, as we have started now to fill the AP7 with the first systems, which is publicly informed to the world, we should see, in the next quarters, how that capacity is also expanded for other applications than for logic devices so far in the high-end compute. Data centers, that was the first. That's well on track.

Speaker #2: In the high-end compute, so data centers—that was the first. So that's well on track.

Speaker #3: Okay, perfect. And maybe my last question relates to the HBM again—adoption. So, the JEDEC body has sort of loosened up the stiffness requirement for HBM4E.

Didier Scemama: Okay, perfect. Maybe my last question relates to the HBM, again, adoption. The JEDEC body has sort of loosened up the thickness requirement for HBM4E. I just wondered whether you think that has got any impact on the adoption curve of hybrid bonding in HBM4, HBM4E or HBM5, because there seems to be a lot of confusion around that in the market.

Speaker #3: And so I just wondered whether you think that has got any impact on the adoption curve of hybrid bonding in HBM4, 4E, or 5?

Speaker #3: Because there seems to be a lot of confusion around that in the market.

Speaker #2: Well, we saw the first increase now over two years ago. Which in a way shocked the market saying, well, we don't need hybrid bonding anymore.

Richard Blickman: Well, we saw the first increase now over 2 years ago, which in a way, stopped the market saying, "Well, we don't need hybrid bonding anymore." We have seen the contrary in development, as just explained, the year 2026, all three are preparing to adopt at some point hybrid bonding for the very simple reason that the performance of the device is significantly better, we are told, and at the same time, it produces far less heat. Many numbers are publicly shared by some of the memory producers, which simply indicate whether you allow an increase in height in stacking that does not improve the performance or the heat characteristics. The technology moves on.

Speaker #2: But we have seen the contrary in development. And as just explained, the year 2026, all three are preparing to adopt at some point hybrid bonding.

Speaker #2: For the very simple reason that the performance of the device is significantly better, we are told. And at the same time, it produces far less heat.

Speaker #2: Many numbers are publicly shared by some of the memory producers, which simply indicate whether you allow an increase in height in stacking that does not improve the performance or the heat characteristics.

Speaker #2: So the technology moves on. One of the reasons we hear is simply because there's a huge shortage in the memory market as we speak. And allowing a higher-end, let's say, packet height is simply offering the industry more devices, albeit at performance levels which are different from those using a hybrid bonding solution.

Richard Blickman: One of the reasons we hear is simply because there's huge shortage in the memory market as we speak, allowing a higher, and let's say, package height is simply offering the industry more devices, albeit at performance levels which are different from that using a hybrid bonding solution. The amount of development is only increasing, the end markets simply require the best solutions for performance and other characteristics like heat. Again, my message is that the heat or the height does not change that characteristic.

Speaker #2: So the amount of development is only increasing. And the end market simply require the best solutions for performance and other characteristics like heat. So again, my message is that the heat or the height does not change.

Speaker #2: That characteristic.

Speaker #3: Yeah, perfectly. Yeah. Thank you so much, Richard.

Didier Scemama: Yeah. Perfectly clear. Thank you so much, Richard.

Speaker #2: Thanks, Steve.

Richard Blickman: Thanks to you.

Speaker #1: The next question comes from Charles Sheet from Medium and Company. Please go ahead.

Operator: The next question comes from Charles Shi from Needham & Company. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Hi, thanks for taking my question. Richard, the first thing I want to start with is on HBM qualification. Now, all top three HBM customers have your tools.

Charles Shi: Hi. Hey, thanks for taking my question. Richard, the first thing I want to start is on HBM qualification now. All top three HBM customers have your tools, and I think you mentioned a little bit, but can you kind of talk through, hopefully one by one, that where the qualification status is, and what are maybe some of the major hurdles you are seeing in terms of getting hybrid bonding qualified at each one of the customers? Maybe I have a couple more questions afterwards. Thank you.

Speaker #4: And I think you mentioned it a little bit, but can you kind of talk through, hopefully one by one, where the qualification status is, and what are maybe some of the major hurdles you are seeing in terms of getting hybrid bonding qualified at each one of the customers? And maybe I have a couple more questions afterwards.

Speaker #4: Thank you.

Speaker #2: The major hurdles are simply cost and yield. If you look at any technology in this industry, but also for other industries, any major change requires qualification, and that always starts with yield issues.

Richard Blickman: If you look at any technology in this industry, but also for other industries, any major change requires a qualification, and that always starts with yield issues. You have material issues. You have different processes. If you look at the entire production process of such a device, bonding is one step in that. Preparation is very critical. All these processes need to be simply qualified. At the same time, because the process is more advanced in terms of accuracy, also because of the nature of the process, that all requires. If you take simply as a reference how long it took for Taiwan, the major customer, to have the logic application up and running, it took us over 3 years, and finally it has met those yield and cost challenges and is only expanding from here.

Speaker #2: You have material issues, you have different processes. So if you look at the entire production process of such a device, bonding is one step in that.

Speaker #2: Preparation is very critical. So all these processes need to be simply qualified. At the same time, because the process is more advanced in terms of accuracy, also because of the nature of that process, that all requires an if you take simply as a reference how long it took for Taiwan, the major customer to have the logic application up and running, it took us over three years.

Speaker #2: And finally, it has met those yield and cost challenges and is only expanding from here. The same in the US. After a long period of qualification at the major US logic customer, we are finally at a stage where this is becoming a mainstream application.

Richard Blickman: The same in the US. After a long time of qualification at the major US logic customer, we are finally in a stage that this is becoming a mainstream application. That qualification process is identical with the two Korean customers, also with the US customer. We're at the very beginning of this technology moving from the development stage, proving all of its performance characteristics in every way, defining the material specs, et cetera, and we are step-by-step coming closer to a mainstream market application. Between development and operations. Development is always completely different in terms of organization and companies as compared to operations. Operations are only interested in throughput, in yield, and ultimately the cost of the device. As we have indicated in previous quarter updates and also at the Capital Markets Day, our Investor Day, we're making significant progress at all three.

Speaker #2: And that qualification process is identical with the two Korean customers, as well as with the US customer. So we're at the very beginning of this technology moving from the development stage, proving all of its performance characteristics in every way.

Speaker #2: Defining the material specs, etc. And we are step by step coming closer to a mainstream market application. So between development and operations. Development is always completely different in terms of organization and companies as compared to operations.

Speaker #2: Operations is only interested in throughput, in yield, and ultimately the cost of the device. So, as we have indicated in previous quarter updates and also at the Capital Markets Day, my Investor Day, we are making significant progress on all three.

Speaker #2: One is currently driving the bust the fastest. And we all know that. Who is also announcing that publicly. So we will shortly find out do we pass the test for full production at this moment or does it take a bit more time.

Richard Blickman: One is currently driving the bus the fastest, and we all know that, who is also announcing that publicly. We will shortly find out, do we pass the test for full production at this moment, or does it take a bit more time? The other two also have stepped up, simply their engagement and testing and finding mainstream end applications. In H2 of this year, it will become more clear, will there be inroads into HBM4E or even HBM3? Because they're different end applications which require a better performance and especially less heat. All those developments are going on currently, and that's the landscape.

Speaker #2: The other two also have stepped up simply. They're engagement and testing and finding mainstream end applications. And so in the second half of this year, it will become more clear will there be inroads into HBM4E or even HBM3 because they're different end applications which require a better performance and especially less heat.

Speaker #2: So all those developments are going on currently. And that's the landscape. Is that answer your question?

Charles Shi: Thanks.

Richard Blickman: Your question-

Speaker #4: Yes, very clear. I have a follow-up on the hybrid bonding orders you got in the past quarter. Sounds like it's all logic applications to repeat customers or one hyperscaler.

Charles Shi: Yes. Very clear. I have a follow-up on the hybrid bonding orders you got in the past quarter. Sounds like it's all logic applications, two repeat customers or one hyperscaler. Can you provide a little bit more context, especially around the hyperscaler order? Because it's interesting because we're not expecting a hyperscaler actually going to buy tools. Can you tell us what is this all about? Thank you.

Speaker #4: Can you provide a little bit more context especially around the hyperscaler order because it's interesting because we are not expecting a hyperscaler actually go into buy tools.

Speaker #4: Can you tell us what this is all about? Thank you.

Speaker #2: Well, what we know and it's not always clear there's a lot of development as we have indicated on the longer-term picture on applications which are in, let's say, wearable products.

Richard Blickman: Well, what we know, and it's not always clear, there's a lot of development as we have indicated on the longer-term picture on applications which are in, let's say, wearable products, glasses, for instance. It may well be for that application, but that's not unique. There are many customers, or many several, in that arena we know and all of us know very well that the next step in wearables is those glasses. It can also be for other applications. As you rightfully said, logic is expanding, if you may call it logic, in many ways. Also co-packaged optics. That's not a hyperscaler. Co-packaged optics is an application which we expect to grow significantly in the years to come, and you need the hybrid bonding technology to connect that into the device. There are other chiplet architecture devices which are also developed using hybrid technology.

Speaker #2: Glasses, for instance—it may well be for that application. But that's not unique; there are many customers, or several, in that arena. We know, and all of us know very well, that the next step in wearables is those glasses.

Speaker #2: It can also be for other applications. But then, as you rightly said, its logic is expanding—if you may call it logic.

Speaker #2: In many ways. Also co-package optics. But that's not the hyperscaler. But co-package optics is an application which we expect to grow significantly in the years to come.

Speaker #2: And you need the hybrid bonding technology to connect that into the device. And there are other chiplet architecture devices which are also developed using hybrid technology.

Speaker #4: Thanks. Maybe last question from me, Richard. Your Q3 guidance — I found this is pretty unusual from a seasonality perspective. The seasonality we're familiar with, the best years at Q3, you're down.

Charles Shi: Thanks. Maybe last question from me, Richard. Your Q3 guidance, I found this as pretty unusual from a seasonality perspective. The seasonality we're familiar with the best three years at Q3 are down, it can be 10% to 25% in some downturn years, and Q4 maybe -5% sequential. You're now guiding Q3 up 10% to 15%. A bit unusual from a seasonality perspective, and I think you mentioned about order momentum. You mentioned about maybe even some recovery in the mainstream part of the market. Do you see, maybe looking out a little bit further into Q4 or maybe a little bit beyond, is this above seasonal pattern lasting a little bit longer this year? What do you see, especially in the mainstream part of the market? Thank you.

Speaker #4: It can be 10 to 25 in some, like in downturn years. And Q4 may be minus 5% sequential. But you're now guiding Q3 up 10 to 15.

Speaker #4: A bit unusual from a seasonality perspective. And I think you mentioned about order momentum, you mentioned about maybe even some recovery in the mainstream part of the market.

Speaker #4: Do you see, maybe looking a little bit further into Q4 or maybe a little bit beyond, is this above-seasonal pattern lasting a little bit longer this year?

Speaker #4: And what do you see especially in the mainstream part of the market? Thank you.

Speaker #2: Oh, excellent. Well, we have this lovely slide in the deck going back to 2006, where you see the quarterly development in the past two decades.

Richard Blickman: Well, excellent. We have this lovely slide in the deck going back to 2006, where you see the quarterly development in the past two decades. You're absolutely right, we're usually first half year loaded, as it is called. That was always because of consumer end market characteristics. If you take two years, three years ago, the major part was always communication devices, high-end smartphones. In the last two years, that has changed into compute AI data center applications. That has a different characteristic in terms of seasonality as we were used to. That is one. The second one is the pattern as discussed in expanding hybrid technology capacity in the world, both in logic and also, if all goes well, in certain early capacity for HBM. That may well change the order pattern.

Speaker #2: And you're absolutely right. We're usually first half year loaded as it is called. But that was always because of consumer end market characteristics. So if you take two years, three years ago, the major part was always communication devices, high-end smartphones.

Speaker #2: In the last two years, that has changed. And to compute AI data center applications, that has a different characteristic in terms of seasonality.

Speaker #2: As we were used to. That is one. The second one is the pattern, as discussed, in expanding hybrid technology capacity in the world, both in logic and also, if all goes well, in certain early capacity for HBM.

Speaker #2: So that may well change the order pattern. But to go to the revenue pattern—and that's nicely depicted in that slide—usually, we have in a strong year a higher revenue in Q3 than in Q2.

Richard Blickman: To go with the revenue pattern, and that's nicely depicted in that slide. Usually, we have in a strong year, a higher revenue in Q3 than in Q2. Usually then the orders come down, but, as we indicated, we have continued order momentum, but with a different mix. That's in a, let's say, in a way you can understand that guidance.

Speaker #2: So usually then the orders come down. But as we indicated, we have continued order momentum. But with a different mix. So that's in a, let's say, in a way you can understand that guidance.

Speaker #4: Thanks, that will be all for me. Thank you.

Charles Shi: Thanks. That would be all for me. Thank you.

Speaker #2: Thanks, Charles.

Richard Blickman: Thanks, Jose.

Speaker #1: Ladies and gentlemen, we kindly remind you to limit your questions to one question and a follow-up. The following question comes from Martin. From Auto BHF.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, we kindly remind you to limit your questions to one question and a follow-up. The following question comes from Martin Marandon-Carlhian from ODDO BHF. Please go ahead.

Speaker #1: Please go ahead.

Speaker #2: Hi, Martin.

Richard Blickman: Hi, Martin.

Speaker #1: It seems Martin might have some trouble. I suggest you signal Count Key Five again. We'll move on to the following question. This is from Martin Youngfleisch from BNP Paribas.

Operator: It seems Martin might have some trouble. I suggest you signal pound key five again. We'll move on to the following question. This is from Martin Jungfleisch from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.

Speaker #1: Please go ahead.

Speaker #5: Yeah, hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe coming back to the hybrid bonding orders in the quarter—in the press release, you mentioned hybrid bonding orders from two repeat customers.

Martin Jungfleisch: Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe coming back to the hybrid bonding orders in the quarter. In the press release, you mentioned hybrid bonding orders from two repeat customers. First of all, can you disclose if these repeat orders were for CPO, logic, memory, or even R&D application? What is your view on the order cadence here from your big Taiwanese customer? There was some news that this customer may actually accelerate CoWoS in favor of SOIC. I'm just wondering if you see potentially this customer kind of slowing down order momentum in the short term. Yes, that's the first question.

Speaker #5: First of all, can you disclose if these repeat orders were for CPO, logic, memory, or even R&D application? And then what is your view on the order cadence here from your big Taiwanese customer?

Speaker #5: There was some news that this customer may actually accelerate co-wars in favor of SOIC. I was just wondering if you see potentially this customer kind of slowing down order momentum in the short term here.

Speaker #5: That's the first question.

Speaker #2: Well, to start with the last comment, we don't see that. Currently, we only see continued let's say efforts and pressure on us to expand the capacity.

Richard Blickman: Well, to start with the last comment, we don't see that currently. We only see continued, let's say, efforts and pressure on us to expand the capacity. As we said earlier, there are many views shared by different sources, we don't see any slowdown in that. On the orders received from those three customers, as I answered earlier question, the hyperscaler is probably for wearables. The other two are, one is related to co-packaged optics, and the other one is simply logic.

Speaker #2: So but there's many as we said earlier, there are many views shared by different sources. But we don't see any slowdown in that. On the orders received from the three customers, as I answered earlier question, the hyperscaler is probably for wearables.

Speaker #2: The other two are: one is related to co-package optics, and the other one is simply logic.

Speaker #5: Great. No, that makes sense. Thank you. And then the other question is on IDMs. I mean, IDM-related orders were up 30 million versus Q1.

Martin Jungfleisch: Great. No, that makes sense. Thank you. The other question's on IDMs. I mean, IDM-related orders were up EUR 30 million. This is Q1. Can you just disclose, was that hybrid bonding, or was that maybe the mainstream kind of AI power-related application that you were talking about in the press release?

Speaker #5: Can you just disclose if was that hybrid bonding or was that maybe the mainstream kind of AI power-related application that you were talking about in the press release?

Speaker #2: The mainstream. That was not hybrid-related. It was very much our other products, flip chip, also MMA. Also conventional. So very strong orders as we explained in the press release but also in the comments across the board.

Richard Blickman: The mainstream. That was not hybrid-related. It was very much our other products, flip chip, also MMA, also conventional. Very strong orders as we explained in the press release, but also in the comments across the board. The only part which is still not very much improving is automotive.

Speaker #2: The only part which is still not improving very much is automotive.

Speaker #5: Okay. Interesting. And the power segment, is that some I guess new segment for you here that you would potentially see increasing over the next couple of quarters as you sold 800-volt architectures ramp up?

Martin Jungfleisch: Okay. Interesting. The power segment, is that some, I guess, new segment for you here that you would potentially see increasing over the next couple of quarters as you saw the 800-volt architectures ramp up?

Speaker #2: Yeah. Although power is, of course, for us a long-time part of our business, we see increased and also a lot of development in applications which have to do with data center compute modules.

Richard Blickman: Yeah. Although power is, of course, for us, a long time part of our business, but we see increased, and also a lot of development in applications which have to do with data center, compute modules. That is, let's say, becoming a much stronger business segment compared to a year and two years ago. It's a bit in line with the increased overall demand for data center compute.

Speaker #2: And that is, let’s say, becoming a much stronger business segment compared to a year and two years ago. It’s a bit in line with the increased overall demand for data center compute.

Speaker #5: Yeah. No, that makes sense. Thanks a lot.

Martin Jungfleisch: Yeah. No, that makes sense. Thanks a lot.

Speaker #1: So following question comes from Sandeep Deshpande from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.

Operator: The following question comes from Sandeep Deshpande from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: Yeah, hi. Thanks for letting me on. Richard, I have two questions on your products. Firstly, I believe that you have broken into the CoWoS market.

Sandeep Deshpande: Yeah. Hi. Thanks for letting me on. Richard, I have two questions on your products. Firstly, I believe that you have broken into the CoWoS market. Has that been part of the orders in Q2, both in terms of CoWoS-L as well as the original CoWoS at some of the ODM or rather the contract manufacturers who are doing CoWoS now? How do you see that having trended in terms of the orders, or is this something which is going to happen in terms of your order book in future quarters?

Speaker #3: And how do you see that has that been part of the orders in Q2 both in terms of CoWoS L as well as the original CoWoS at some of the ODM or rather the contract manufacturers who are doing CoWoS now?

Speaker #3: So, how do you see that having trended in terms of the orders, or is this something which is going to happen in terms of your order book in future quarters?

Speaker #2: No, no. That's already a significant part of the orders. We always call that CoWoS-like, and that has already started. You can say in Q4, Q1, Q2.

Richard Blickman: No. That's already a significant part of the orders. We always call that CoWoS-like. That already started, you can say, in Q4, Q1, Q2, and should continue to expand.

Speaker #2: And should continue to expand.

Speaker #3: Understood. And then what about TCB next? I mean, how do you see TC next? I mean, is this already part of the order book or this is still being tested by the clients that who have bought the early tools and that this will ramp up later in the year or next year?

Sandeep Deshpande: Understood. What about TC Next? How do you see TC Next? Is this already part of the order book, or this is still being tested by the clients who have bought the early tools, and that this will ramp up later in the year or next year?

Speaker #2: No, no. As we commented the customer base is expanding. The amount of qualifications is significant. The industry is moving to applications below 20 micron bump at pitch.

Richard Blickman: No. As we commented, the customer base is expanding. The amount of qualifications is significant. The industry is moving to applications below 20 micron bump pitch, and as you know, our system is designed for that segment. Between 10 and 20, also fluxless. You see increasing engagement in qualifications, but also systems ordered. Single systems, not yet major volume. There's one who has several. That is early days with ever more clear future demand.

Speaker #2: And as you know, our system is designed for that segment, so between 10 and 20, also fluxless. And you see increasing engagement in qualifications, but also systems ordered.

Speaker #2: Single systems—not yet major volume. There's one who has several, but that is early days, with ever more clear future demand.

Speaker #3: And in terms of timing, when do you expect the volume ramp here, as well as what products are you looking at for the volume ramp? Like you talked about with hybrid bonding, where is your demand coming from?

Sandeep Deshpande: In terms of timing on when do you expect the volume ramp here, as well as what products are you looking at the volume ramp, like you talked about on hybrid bonding, where that demand is coming from?

Speaker #2: Combination logic, it's been first instance. It's very, yeah, similar to hybrid. So the critical thing about bump at pitch is below 10 microns. To do that with a reflow process—and you would also like to do that fluxless.

Richard Blickman: Combination logic. It's in first instance, it's very similar to hybrid. The critical thing about bump pitches below 10 micron, to do that with a reflow process, and you would also like to do that with fluxless, that is the most intended application. Already, pretty soon, it also found its way into the development of HBM with smaller geometries. That are both drivers, where this system is very much suited, and also offering superior cost of ownership results.

Speaker #2: That is the most intended application. But already, pretty soon, it also found its way into the development of HBM with smaller geometries. And those are both drivers where the system is very much suited, and also offering superior cost-of-ownership results.

Speaker #3: Thank you, Richard.

Sandeep Deshpande: Thank you, Richard.

Speaker #1: So following question comes from Nabeel Basis from Rothschild & Co. Bedburn. Please go ahead.

Operator: The following question comes from Nabeel Aziz from Rothschild & Co., Melbourne. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Good afternoon, Richard. Thanks for taking the question. I was just thinking about the cadence of hybrid bonders shipments through 2026. I was just thinking, should we expect half on half increase in hybrid bonding installations, particularly with AP7 investments ramping?

Nabeel Aziz: Good afternoon, Richard. Thanks for taking the question. I was just thinking about the cadence of hybrid bonder shipments through 2026. I was just thinking, should we expect half on half increase in hybrid bonding installations, particularly with AP7 investments ramping? Thanks.

Speaker #4: Thanks.

Speaker #2: Oh, that's a good question. If all goes according to plan, that may well happen in that sequence. As we know, the let's say published total capacity should be roughly double that of AP6.

Richard Blickman: Well, that's a good question. If all goes according to plan, that may well happen in that sequence. As we know, the, let's say, published total capacity should be roughly double that of AP6. When AP6, they're about 60 bonders, so that still some way to go to double that. That's always done in incremental steps. We explained the first round orders received in Q1. There may be another round in H2, we don't know, with a lead time of about 6 months. That explains when it will become revenue.

Speaker #2: When AP6, they're about 60 bonders. So that still some way to go to double that. That's always done in incremental steps. We explained the first round orders received in Q1.

Speaker #2: There may be another round in the second half—we don't know. With the lead time of about six months, that then explains when it will become revenue.

Speaker #4: That's great. Very clear. And then just as a follow-up on CoPOS, could you talk about what the move to panel-level packaging could mean for the BESI business, and what the kind of ramp profile you're expecting for CoPOS over the next few years?

Nabeel Aziz: That's great. Very clear. Just as a follow-up on CoWoS. Could you talk about what the move to panel level packaging could mean for the Besi business and what the kind of ramp profile you're expecting for CoWoS over the next few years? Thank you.

Speaker #4: Thank you.

Speaker #2: Well, it's becoming ever more clear that the industry is selecting a panel size of 310 by 310. There are also larger panel sizes indicated, such as 510 by 515.

Richard Blickman: Well, it's becoming ever more clear that the industry is selecting a panel size 310 by 310, and also larger panel sizes indicated 510 by 515. As we know, Taiwan has selected 310 by 310, which also makes a lot of sense compared to a wafer size currently. Our systems are mostly prepared for panels size 310 by 310. Also, we have orders to that extent, same with packaging, by the way. The industry is moving into that direction, and not for all applications, for certain applications. That is definitely part of our, let's say, market going forward.

Speaker #2: But as we know, Taiwan has selected 310 by 310, which also makes a lot of sense compared to the wafer size currently. Our systems are mostly prepared for a panel size of 310 by 310.

Speaker #2: Also, we have orders to that extent—same with packaging, by the way. So the industry is moving in that direction, and not for all applications, but for certain applications.

Speaker #2: So, that is definitely part of our, let's say, market going forward.

Speaker #4: Thank you, Richard.

Nabeel Aziz: Thank you, Richard.

Speaker #1: The following question comes from Martin Maradon Kalyan from AutoBHF. Please go ahead.

Operator: The following question comes from Martin Marandon Carion from ODDO BHF. Please go ahead.

Speaker #5: Sorry, sorry. I was on mute. Thanks for taking my question. Yeah, I'm sorry about earlier—I had some problem with my phone.

Martin Marandon-Carlhian: Sorry, I was on mute.

Richard Blickman: Okay.

Martin Marandon-Carlhian: Taking my question. Yeah, I'm sorry about that earlier. I had some problem with my phone.

Speaker #2: No problem.

Richard Blickman: No problem.

Speaker #5: So, in the press release, I wanted to better understand a statement. When you talk about increasing penetration of co-hosts and co-posts, how should we understand it? Are you talking more about flip-chip bonding opportunities, or even about TCB there?

Martin Marandon-Carlhian: In the press release, I wanted to understand better a statement. When you talk about increasing penetration of CoWoS and CPO, how should we understand? Are you talking more about flip chip bonding opportunities or even about TCB there?

Speaker #2: Both, and also hybrid. Don't forget that you may well see certain modules assembled in a panel format, so depending upon the size, you can have a certain amount.

Richard Blickman: Both. Also hybrid. Don't forget that you may well see certain modules assembled in a panel format. Depending upon the size, you can have a certain amount, and you would need those three technologies to build those devices.

Speaker #2: And you would need those three technologies to build those devices. And in the invested material, you see some examples of that. And the most easy way to understand is, if you have a round format, you lose corners.

Martin Marandon-Carlhian: Okay, right. Yeah

Richard Blickman: In the investor day material, you see some examples of that.

Martin Marandon-Carlhian: Okay.

Richard Blickman: The most easy way to understand is if you have a round format, you lose corners. If you have a square panel format, you use also those corners, and that increases the efficiency and in the end reduces the cost of ownership.

Speaker #2: If you have a square panel format, you use also those corners. And that increases the efficiency and in the end reduces the cost of ownership.

Speaker #5: Okay. They have 4N. My second question is on TCB, because you had this quite large order last year in memory. We haven't really seen repeat orders since then.

Martin Marandon-Carlhian: Okay, very helpful. My second question is on TCB, because you had this quite large order last year in memory.

Richard Blickman: Yeah.

Martin Marandon-Carlhian: We didn't see really repeat orders since then. I wanted to understand what your understanding behind this. Do you think it's because the customer could hesitate with hybrid bonding, or is there another reason?

Speaker #5: And I wanted to understand your understanding behind this. Do you think it's because the customer could hesitate with hybrid bonding, or is there another reason?

Speaker #2: No, the reason is quite simple. Every customer is preparing for a next step in miniaturization of chip design, so that always takes time.

Richard Blickman: No, the reason is quite simple. Every customer is preparing for a next step in miniaturization of chip design. That always takes time. The development of a next generation can be two years, three years, four years, in order to be fully prepared, that's how customers buy systems initially. I can explain in many details for many other customers how that unfolds year after year. The timing is often dependent on many other factors, end market factors. Will they use the current technology for a next round? Can they stretch that, or do they need to change to smaller geometries? That's always a trade-off. That's how you should see that development, but it's very important to be the process of reference at an initial stage. If you do it well, you can have the largest opportunity once it becomes mainstream.

Speaker #2: The development of a next generation can be two years, three years, four years. And in order to be fully prepared, that's how customers buy systems initially.

Speaker #2: I can explain in many details for many other customers how that unfolds. Year after year after year. And the timing is often dependent on many other factors.

Speaker #2: And market factors. Will they use the current technology for a next round? Can they stretch that or do they need to change to smaller geometries?

Speaker #2: That's always a trade-off, so that's how you should see that development. But it's very important to be the process of reference at an initial stage.

Speaker #2: Then if you do it well, you can have the largest opportunity once it becomes mainstream.

Speaker #5: Okay, understood. Thank you, Richard.

Martin Marandon-Carlhian: Okay, understood. Thank you, Richard.

Speaker #2: Thanks, Martin.

Richard Blickman: Thanks, Martin.

Speaker #1: The following question comes from Mark Hesselink from ING. Please go ahead.

Operator: The following question comes from Marc Hesselink from ING. Please go ahead.

Speaker #2: Yes, thank you. My first question is on the AI power management, which was already addressed a bit. Historically, whenever you start calling elements out in the press release, it typically marks the start of a pretty strong period.

Marc Hesselink: Yes. Thank you. My first question is on the AI power management, which you already addressed a bit. Historically, whenever you start calling elements out in the press release, it typically was the start of a pretty strong period there, and I think you discussed this already a bit at the Investor Day. Maybe a bit more detail. Did you really make now a first real inroads with more significant volume than the years before with one client? Are there more clients to follow? How do you see this ramp pattern into the next few quarters?

Speaker #2: And I think you discussed this already a bit at the investor day. Maybe a bit more detail. Did you really make now a first real inroad with more significant volume than the years before with one client?

Speaker #2: Are there more clients to follow? How do you see this ramp pattern into the next few quarters?

Speaker #5: Well, as you rightfully concluded, we only mentioned when we feel with high certainty that that could be a significant mainstream contribution to the total.

Richard Blickman: Well, as you rightfully concluded, we only mention when we feel with high certainty that that could be a significant mainstream contribution to the total. Yes, there are more customers. As I explained earlier, it's part of the total offering to this data center module end market, and power is a very critical part always. That is the background of that statement. We don't mention specific customers, but I can say that it's more than only one customer, it's broader. That like with photonics, the pluggables, or with the chip on substrate from CoWoS, same like chip on wafer, same story. That all is part of the roadmap of 2.5D, and that gives us a major opportunity. Same like photonics and co-packaged optics. They're all focused on specific end markets which are mainstream currently or in the future, like co-packaged optics.

Speaker #5: So yes, there are more customers. As I explained earlier, it's part of the total offering to this data center module and market, and power is always a very critical part.

Speaker #5: And so that is the background of that statement. We don't mention specific customers, but I can say that it's more than only one customer.

Speaker #5: It's broader. So, like with photonics, the pluggables, or with the OS on substrate from co-hosts—same like chip on wafer, same story—that all is part of the roadmap of two and a half B.

Speaker #5: And that gives us a major opportunity, similar to photonics and co-package optics. They're all focused on specific end markets, which are mainstream currently or will be in the future, like co-package optics.

Speaker #5: Expectation is very high for that market going into the future. So, anyway, you have to see that comment in that context.

Richard Blickman: Anyway, expectation is very high for that market going into the future. You have to see that comment in that context.

Speaker #2: Clear, thanks. And the second question is also coming back to an earlier answer. It's about seasonality. I think you already explained that now the biggest driver is not communications anymore, but more the data center, which has a different seasonality.

Marc Hesselink: Yeah. Thanks. Second question is also coming back on an earlier answer. It's on the seasonality. I think you already explained that now the bigger drive is not the communication anymore, but more the data center, which has a different seasonality. In the communication part, the memory part, is there still the usual seasonality? The reason I'm asking is I also read some stories that maybe the cadence of introductions by Apple might be also an introduction in H1 2025, that maybe therefore also the communication's a bit more split out, or is that something you are seeing?

Speaker #2: But then in the communication part, the memory part, is there still the usual seasonality? And the reason I’m asking is also I’ve read some stories that maybe the cadence of introductions by Apple—might there also be an introduction in the first half of next year? That maybe, therefore, also the communication is a bit more split out, or is that something you are seeing?

Speaker #5: Well, we've heard that many times in the past. Let's say it all depends on the judgment of end markets, and consumer markets are very difficult in that sense.

Richard Blickman: Well, we've heard that many times in the past. Let's say it all depends on judgment of end markets, and consumer markets are very difficult in that sense. We also only hear at the final moment, usually January, early February, what the decision is of the content change in the next generation to be launched in September timeframe. Sometimes you hear that may change to springtime, we have not seen that. For us, it doesn't make much difference other than planning of production capacity. The typical machines used for, let's say, high-end smartphones is, of course, flip chip, MMA for multi-module attach, cameras is one of the key end products, and you can expect a change in those cameras, which is also indicated.

Speaker #5: So, we also only hear at the final moment, usually January or early February, what the decision is regarding the content change in a next generation to be launched in the September timeframe.

Speaker #5: Sometimes you hear that may change to springtime, but we have not seen that. For us, it doesn't make much difference, other than planning for production capacity.

Speaker #5: So the typical machines use it used for let's say high-end smartphones is of course flip chip, MMA for multimodal attach. Cameras is one of the key end products and you can expect a change in those cameras, which is also indicated.

Speaker #5: Then you have the whole 5D, but also the power, the— all the critical components. And they all have, yeah, let's say, suppliers in the supply chain for those end products.

Richard Blickman: You have the whole 2.5D, also the power, all the critical components, and they all have, let's say, suppliers in the supply chain for those end products. We have not seen a change in structure yet. We've heard that, yes, we haven't seen it yet. The round we are now, let's say, emphasizing is a clear round, which has to do with a generation which will be introduced in September, October. Orders for that we have received in Q1, in early part of Q2. Maybe if that all is successful in adoption in the world, you may see additional orders in Q3. That's typically the pattern.

Speaker #5: We have not seen a change in structure yet. We've heard that, yes, but we haven't seen it yet. So the round we are now, let's say emphasizing, is a clear round which has to do with a generation which will be introduced in September, October.

Speaker #5: And so orders for that, we have received in first quarter in early part of the second quarter. And maybe if that all is successful in adoption in the world, you may see additional orders in the third quarter.

Speaker #5: So that's typically the pattern.

Speaker #2: Thanks.

Marc Hesselink: Very clear. Thanks.

Speaker #5: I hope that helps.

Richard Blickman: I hope that helps.

Speaker #1: The final question comes from Robert Sanders from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Operator: The final question comes from Robert Sanders from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Yeah, hi Richard. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe if we could just take a step back and talk a bit about the potential for overcapacity building up.

Robert Sanders: Hi, Richard. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe if we could just take a step back and talk a bit about the potential for overcapacity building up. I guess in particular, 2.5D, what worries you more about what you see today in terms of the potential for overcapacity building up? Is it the CoWoS lookalikes, or is it China? You've been through many cycles, so I'd be interested to sort of get a sense of what you see, and then I have a follow-up. Thanks.

Speaker #4: I guess in particular 2.5D, what worries you more about what you see today in terms of the potential for overcapacity building up? Is it the co-world's lookalikes or is it China?

Speaker #4: You've been through many cycles, so I'd be interested to get a sense of what you see, and then I have a follow-up. Thanks.

Speaker #5: First of all, thank you for this question. If you look at the previous cycles in our industry, typically an upcycle lasts six quarters, maybe eight.

Richard Blickman: Well, first of all, thanks for this question. If you look at the previous cycles in our industry, typically an up cycle lasts six quarters, maybe eight, and then you are bound to have an overcapacity. As soon as you hear new fabs being built, new assembly sites, advanced packaging being built, and by different major customers, and then also the whole subcontractor universe expanding capacities, you're bound will see at some point an overcapacity. What we see in the market clearly reflects the statistical analysis of what has gone on in many cycles. There are many, always other prophets who are saying, No, this time it's different. It will last another super cycle, three years at the minimum, because of the overwhelming demand. We've also heard that before. It's a very interesting question.

Speaker #5: And then you are bound to have an overcapacity. As soon as you hear new fabs being built, new assembly sites, advanced packaging being built, and by different majors, then also the whole subcontractor universe expanding capacities, you're bound to see at some point an overcapacity.

Speaker #5: So, what we see in the market clearly reflects the statistical analysis of what has gone on in many cycles. There are always many other prophets who are saying, no, this time it's different.

Speaker #5: It will last another super cycle—three years at the minimum—because of the overwhelming demand. We've also heard that before, so it's a very interesting question.

Speaker #5: But then, if you look at BESI, we can accelerate and decelerate. Look at our margins, our ramps, and also deramps with increasing margins. In this cyclical world—and it remains cyclical—you simply have to follow the demand cycles of the leader and customers.

Richard Blickman: If you look at Besi, we can accelerate, decelerate, look at our margins, our ramps, and also deramps with increasing margins. In this cyclical world, and it remains cyclical, you simply have to follow the demand cycles of the leader and customers. Are we heading into an overcapacity? Time will tell. We adjust our operations, our supply chains, long lead items three times a week, simply following exactly the demand patterns of those customers as said. We are suppliers to an industry which today has major drivers, and of course, AI is a game changer in many ways. Will that follow a continued growth path? Nobody knows. I'm sorry, Rob, I can't give you a better answer.

Speaker #5: So are we heading into an overcapacity? Time will tell. We just—our operations, our supply chains, long lead items—three times a week—are simply following exactly the demand patterns of those customers as said.

Speaker #5: We are suppliers to an industry—an industry which today has major drivers, and of course, AI is a game changer in many ways.

Speaker #5: Will that follow a continued growth path? Nobody knows. So I'm sorry Rob, I can't give you a better answer.

Speaker #4: But do you think that this cycle is a potentially more dangerous just because the OSATs they make 18% gross margin. They can make 40% in co-world lookalikes.

Robert Sanders: Do you think that this cycle is potentially more dangerous just because the OSATs, they make 18% gross margin. They can make 40% in CoWoS lookalikes. Doesn't that make it a little bit more dangerous, or you feel that's always the case, that there's some attractive high margin market that they can go after?

Speaker #4: Doesn't that make it a little bit more dangerous, or do you feel that's always the case—that there's some attractive, high-margin market that they can go after?

Speaker #5: Well, that's the name of the game. So, any high margins are bound to result—well, take the memory market right now. Who would have thought two years ago that you would ever enter the memory market into a world with margins like we have right now?

Richard Blickman: Well, that's the name of the game. Any high margins is bound to result. Well, take the memory market right now. Who would have thought two years ago that you would ever enter the memory market into a world with margins which we have right now? That's the danger in this industry. As a supplier, you simply have to be prepared. You have to enjoy the demand as soon as it is offered, and that's what we do. If the tide goes out, simply be able to adjust your cost.

Speaker #5: So that's the danger in this industry. But as a supplier, you simply have to prepare for it. You have to enjoy the demand as soon as it is offered.

Speaker #5: And that's what we do. And then, if the tide goes out, simply be able to adjust your cost.

Speaker #4: Got it. And just one housekeeping question. I don't know if this was answered earlier, and I apologize if it was, but did you say how many hybrid bonding units were shipped in Q2, and how many bookings in units you took for Q2?

Robert Sanders: Got it. Just one housekeeping question. I don't know if this was answered earlier on, I apologize if it was, but did you say how many hybrid bonding units were shipped in Q2 and how many booking numbers you took in units for Q2? Just out of interest, if you're willing to say. Thanks.

Speaker #4: Just out of interest, if you're willing to say. Thanks.

Speaker #5: No, we haven't disclosed units. We did disclose the number of customers. We're now over 20—21 customers. And we updated in detail the progress in HBM adoption.

Richard Blickman: No, we haven't disclosed units. We did disclose the number of customers. We are now over 20, 21 customers, and we updated in detail the progress in HBM adoption with a very clear message that it will be very interesting in the course of this quarter and also Q4, how much and which end application that will use hybrid bonding.

Speaker #5: With a very clear message that it will be very interesting in the course of this quarter, and also the fourth quarter, how much and which end application will use hybrid bonding.

Speaker #4: Got it. Thanks a lot, Richard. Have a good summer.

Robert Sanders: Got it. Thanks a lot, Richard. Have a good summer.

Speaker #5: Thank you, Rob.

Richard Blickman: Thank you, Rob.

Speaker #1: Stay safe, gentlemen.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker #5: Okay.

Richard Blickman: Okay.

Speaker #1: I will now hand the word over to Mr. Richard Blickman for the closing remarks.

Operator: I will now hand the word over to Mr. Richard Blickman for the closing remarks.

Richard Blickman: Thank you all for listening in, and in case you have additional questions, don't hesitate to contact us. Thank you again. Bye-bye.

Q2 2026 BE Semiconductor Industries NV Earnings Call

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