Q2 2026 WSFS Financial Corp Earnings Call
Speaker #1: Financial Corporation, Q2 earnings call. After today's prepared remarks, we will host a Q&A session. If you would like to ask a question, press *1 to raise your hand.
Speaker #1: To withdraw your question, press *1 again. I'd now like to turn the call over to your host for today, Mr. David Burg, Chief Financial Officer.
Speaker #1: Sir, please go ahead.
Speaker #2: Thank you very much, and good afternoon everyone. Thank you for joining our Q2 2026 earnings call. Our earnings release and earnings release supplement, which we'll refer to on today's call, can be found in the investor relations section of our company website.
Speaker #2: With me on this call is Roger Levenson, Chairman, President, and CEO. Prior to reviewing our financial results, I would like to read our Safe Harbor statement.
Speaker #2: Our discussion today will include information about our management's view over future expectations, plans, and prospects that constitute forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially from historical results, or those indicated by these forward-looking statements due to risks and uncertainties.
Speaker #2: Including, but not limited to, the risk factors in our annual report of Form 10-K and our most recent quarterly reports of Form 10-Q, as well as other documents we may periodically file within Securities and Exchange Commission.
Speaker #2: All comments made during today's call are subject to the Safe Harbor statement. I will now turn to our financial results. During the Q2, WSFS's performance continued to demonstrate the strength of our franchise in diverse business models.
Speaker #2: Results included a core earnings per share of $1.66, core ROA of 1.55%, and core return on tangible common equity of 20.2%, which are all above the Q1 levels when you exclude the previously disclosed loan recovery.
Speaker #2: On a year-over-year basis, core net income increased 19%, and core PP&R increased 10%, resulting in core earnings per share growth of 31% and tangible book value per share growth of 13%.
Speaker #2: Core results for the Q1 exclude a 1.8 million decrease to net income and a 3% reduction to EPS, primarily related to the write-down of an equity investment, as well as the previously disclosed gain from the sale of our credit card portfolio.
Speaker #2: Net interest margin expanded 4 basis points Q1 to 3.87%, driven by a 4 basis point reduction in our client deposit costs, as well as higher investment securities and yields.
Speaker #2: Our interest-bearing deposit beta remained at 46%. Core fee revenue, which represents nearly a third of total revenue, grew 2% Q1 and 5% year-over-year, the growth across our fee businesses was led by wealth and trust, which grew 17% year-over-year.
Speaker #1: Securities and Exchange Commission. All comments made during today's call are subject to the Safe Harbor Statement. I will now turn to our financial results.
Speaker #1: During the second quarter, WSFS's performance continued to demonstrate the strength of our franchise and diverse business models. Results included core earnings per share of $1.66, core ROA of 1.55%, and core return on tangible common equity of 20.2%, which are all above first-quarter levels when you exclude the previously disclosed loan recovery.
Speaker #2: Within institutional services, corporate trust and global capital markets were up 28% and 58% year-over-year respectively, as we continued to win new mandates and capture market share.
Speaker #2: For the first half of '26, WSFS was ranked as the third most active ABS and MBS trustee based on deal count, increasing our market share to 14% from 11.7% in 2025.
Speaker #1: On a year-over-year basis, core net income increased 19%, and core PP&R increased 10%, resulting in core earnings per share growth of 31% and tangible book value per share growth of 13%.
Speaker #2: Our personal trust business, the Brimware Trust Company of Delaware, also delivered strong year-over-year growth of 20%, driven by continued new account growth. Outside of wealth, our capital markets business within the commercial division also delivered strong double-digit growth, both Q1 and year-over-year.
Speaker #1: Core results for the quarter exclude a $1.8 million decrease to net income and a 3% reduction to EPS, primarily related to the write-down of an equity investment, as well as the previously disclosed gain from the sale of our credit card portfolio.
Speaker #2: Cash connect fees declined year-over-year due to the impact of interest rate cuts and lower volumes, but the business delivered a higher profit margin of 15% for the Q2 in a row.
Speaker #1: Net interest margin expanded 4 basis points during the quarter to 3.87%, driven by a 4 basis point reduction in our client deposit costs, as well as higher investment securities and yields.
Speaker #2: Client deposits, increased 3% Q1, driven by growth in institutional services and commercial. On a year-over-year basis, our client deposits are up 11%. Importantly, non-interest deposits were up 10% Q1 and now represent 37% of total client deposits, up from 31% a year ago.
Speaker #1: Our interest-bearing deposit beta remained at 46%. Core fee revenue, which represents nearly a third of total revenue, grew 2% during the quarter and 5% year-over-year. The growth across our fee businesses was led by Wealth and Trust, which grew 17% year-over-year.
Speaker #1: Within Institutional Services, Corporate Trust and Global Capital Markets were up 28% and 58% year-over-year, respectively, as we continued to win new mandates and capture market share.
Speaker #2: While we continue to see some elevated Q1 end activity by clients, we are seeing strong deposit growth momentum as evidenced by increases in both end-of-period and average deposits, which also grew 3% Q1 and 8% year-over-year.
Speaker #1: For the first half of '26, WSFS was ranked as the third most active ABS and MBS trustee based on deal count, increasing our market share to 14% from 11.7% in 2025.
Speaker #2: Gross loans were up 1% Q1, or 5% annualized. In commercial, we continue to see strong momentum in C&I, which grew 2% Q1, or 8% annualized.
Speaker #1: Our personal trust business, the Brimware Trust Company of Delaware, also delivered strong year-over-year growth of 20%, driven by continued new account growth. Outside of Wealth, our Capital Markets business within the Commercial division also delivered strong double-digit growth, both in the quarter and year-over-year.
Speaker #2: And in consumer, home lending generated strong growth, with residential mortgage and WSFS Home Equity loans up 10% Q1 and 23% year-over-year. Turning to asset quality, we continued the recent trend of improvements across our key metric, key metrics including leading indicators.
Speaker #1: Cash Connect fees declined year-over-year due to the impact of interest rate cuts and lower volumes, but the business delivered a higher profit margin of 15% for the second quarter in a row.
Speaker #2: Problem assets decreased 6% Q1 due to several commercial payoffs, and are now down 31% year-over-year, delinquencies are down 5% Q1 and nearly 40% year-over-year, with accruing delinquencies of 26 million as of Q1 end.
Speaker #1: Client deposits increased 3% during the quarter, driven by growth in Institutional Services and Commercial. On a year-over-year basis, our client deposits are up 11%. Importantly, non-interest deposits were up 10% during the quarter and now represent 37% of total client deposits, up from 31% a year ago.
Speaker #2: Non-performing assets are down 8% Q1 and nearly 25% year-over-year. In addition, net chargebacks were 7.1 million, or 21 basis points of average loans for the Q1.
Speaker #1: While we continue to see some elevated quarter-end activity by clients, we are seeing strong deposit growth momentum, as evidenced by increases in both end-of-period and average deposits, which also grew 3% during the quarter and 8% year-over-year.
Speaker #2: When you exclude the impact of the prior Q1 loan recovery, net chargebacks decreased 5.1 million Q1 over Q1, driven by lower commercial chargebacks. During the Q1, we continued to execute on our capital return framework, returning 77 million of capital including 66 million of buybacks.
Speaker #1: Gross loans were up 1% during the quarter, or 5% annualized. In commercial, we continue to see strong momentum in CNI, which grew 2% during the quarter, or 8% annualized.
Speaker #2: Year to date, we repurchased over 4% of our outstanding shares, and returned approximately 100% of net income to shareholders. On the last page of the earnings supplement, we provided our updated 2026 outlook, which now assumes no Fed funds rate changes for the rest of the year.
Speaker #1: And in consumer, home lending generated strong growth with residential mortgage and WSFS home equity loans up 10% during the quarter and 23% year-over-year. Turning to asset quality, we continued the recent trend of improvements across our key metrics, including leading indicators.
Speaker #2: Our updated full-year outlook reflects improvements across most metrics. Notably, we're increasing ROA outlook for the year to 1.50%, with potential upside from there, as we continue to drive high performance and growth.
Speaker #1: Problem assets decreased 6% during the quarter due to several commercial payoffs, and are now down 31% year-over-year. Delinquencies are down 5% during the quarter and nearly 40% year-over-year, with accruing delinquencies of $26 million as of quarter end.
Speaker #2: We also raised our deposit growth rate from mid to high single digits. While our results reflect some elevated Q1 transactional activity, we continue to see strong deposit growth momentum across institutional services and commercial.
Speaker #1: Non-performing assets are down 8% during the quarter and nearly 25% year-over-year. In addition, net chargebacks were $7.1 million, or 21 basis points of average loans for the quarter.
Speaker #2: Our NIM outlook has improved to approximately 3.85%, reflecting the updated rate forecast and momentum across deposits and loans. We continue to see elevated deposit competition, which may impact deposit pricing going forward.
Speaker #1: When you exclude the impact of the prior quarter loan recovery, net chargebacks decreased $5.1 million quarter over quarter, driven by lower commercial chargebacks. During the quarter, we continued to execute on our capital return framework, returning $77 million of capital, including $66 million of buybacks.
Speaker #2: We raised our outlook for fee revenue excluding cash connect from mid to high single digits, as we continue to see strong momentum and future growth opportunities in our fee businesses, in particularly wealth and trusts, where we continue to capture market share within institutional services and BMT of Delaware.
Speaker #1: Year to date, we have purchased over 4% of our outstanding shares and returned approximately 100% of net income to shareholders. On the last page of the earnings supplement, we provided our updated 2026 outlook, which now assumes no Fed funds rate changes for the rest of the year.
Speaker #2: Net chargebacks are now expected to be between 15% to 25 basis points of average loans for the year, a decrease from our previous outlook, which reflects the strong asset quality results we saw in the Q1 and recent momentum across key leading indicators.
Speaker #1: Our updated full-year outlook reflects improvements across most metrics. Notably, we're increasing our ROA outlook for the year to 1.50%, with potential upside from there, as we continue to drive high performance and growth.
Speaker #2: Consistent with our first Q1 update, this outlook includes the previously disclosed recovery in one Q. Our commercial portfolio continues to perform well, but losses may be uneven.
Speaker #2: Our outlook for efficiency remains unchanged, with plan to maintain strong expense discipline but will continue to leverage opportunities to invest in the franchise, which, coupled with normal seasonality, may result in some variances Q2 to Q1.
Speaker #1: We also raised our deposit growth rate from mid- to high-single digits. While our results reflect some elevated quarter-end transactional activity, we continue to see strong deposit growth momentum across Institutional Services and Commercial.
Speaker #2: We're pleased with these results and remain committed to delivering high performance, and will now open the line for questions.
Speaker #1: Our NIM outlook has improved to approximately 3.85%, reflecting the updated rate forecast and momentum across deposits and loans. We continue to see elevated deposit competition, which may impact deposit pricing going forward.
Speaker #1: We will now begin the question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 to raise your hand.
Speaker #1: We raised our outlook for fee revenue, excluding Cash Connect, from mid- to high-single digits, as we continue to see strong momentum and future growth opportunities in our fee businesses, in particular wealth and trusts, where we continue to capture market share within Institutional Services and BMT of Delaware.
Speaker #1: To withdraw your question, press star 1 again. We ask that you pick up your handset when asking a question to allow for optimum sound quality.
Speaker #1: If you are muted locally, please remember to unmute your device. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Your first question comes from the line of Russell Gunther.
Speaker #1: Net chargebacks are now expected to be between 15 and 25 basis points of average loans for the year, a decrease from our previous outlook, which reflects the strong asset quality results we saw in the quarter and recent momentum across key leading indicators.
Speaker #1: With Stevens. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Speaker #1: Consistent with our first quarter update, this outlook includes the previously disclosed recovery in one queue. Our commercial portfolio continues to perform well, but losses may be uneven.
Speaker #2: Yes, thank you. Good afternoon. I wanted to begin afternoon, guys. I wanted to begin on the revised margin guide. So it looks like it implies relative stability in the back half of the year.
Speaker #1: Our outlook for efficiency remains unchanged. We plan to maintain strong expense discipline but will continue to leverage opportunities to invest in the franchise, which, coupled with normal seasonality, may result in some variances quarter to quarter.
Speaker #2: We're getting towards the end of earnings this week, and a lot of the commentary so far is focused on margin headwinds for the industry.
Speaker #2: Tighter spread, higher deposit costs, but when I look at your guys, liquidity profile in terms of the below-peer loan or deposit ratio, a lot of securities, cash flow you can reinvested.
Speaker #1: We're pleased with these results and remain committed to delivering high performance. We'll now open the line for questions.
Speaker #2: Better than pure non-interest bearing mix that's growing. I'd picked you guys would be better able to defend against competitive pressures, at least on the liability side, but David, how are you guys thinking about the trajectory of deposit costs from here as what's reflected in the margin guide and as we think about '27?
Speaker #2: We will now begin the question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 to raise your hand.
Speaker #2: To withdraw your question, press star 1 again. We ask that you pick up your handset when asking a question to allow for optimum sound quality.
Speaker #3: Yeah. Yeah. Happy to address that. So I think you're right. I think we've obviously had success in bringing down our deposit costs so far.
Speaker #2: If you are muted locally, please remember to unmute your device. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Your first question comes from the line of Russell Gunther.
Speaker #3: We have a good liquidity profile. And in fact, we've let some of our higher cost deposits run off in the first half of the year as you can see in some of our CD runoff.
Speaker #3: So because of our liquidity position, we were able to do that. At the same time, I think there are two factors to consider. One is we are and we've been seeing it really throughout the first half of the year there are definitely more deposit competition out in the market.
Speaker #2: With Stevens, your line is open. Please go ahead.
Speaker #1: Yes, thank you. Good afternoon. I wanted to begin—good afternoon, guys. I wanted to begin on the revised margin guide. So, it looks like it implies relative stability in the back half of the year.
Speaker #3: And we've seen that really build up over the last six months. To give you one example, our largest CD product was a six-month 3% CD, and we found ourselves to be really on the low end of market pricing.
Speaker #1: We're getting towards the end of earnings this week, and a lot of the commentary so far is focused on margin headwinds for the industry.
Speaker #1: Tighter spread, higher deposit costs, but when I look at your guys' liquidity profile in terms of the below-peer loan-to-deposit ratio, a lot of securities, cash flow you can get reinvested.
Speaker #3: And if you go out, it's very easy to get over 4% for 12 months. And so we want to make sure that we remain competitive even though we don't necessarily need the liquidity today.
Speaker #1: Better than peer non-interest-bearing mix that’s growing. I picked you guys would be better able to defend against competitive pressures, at least on the liability side. But David, how are you guys thinking about the trajectory of deposit costs from here, as reflected in the margin guide, and as we think about 2027?
Speaker #3: We obviously want to continue to grow our clients. We want to defend our market share and capture more share. We want to remain competitive.
Speaker #3: So I think we will we do have to we may need to increase in order to grow in some areas and be competitive. And so that does put some pressure on our deposit costs going out.
Speaker #3: Yeah, happy to address that. I think you're right. We've obviously had success in bringing down our deposit costs so far.
Speaker #3: But expect the NIM to be stable, and we expect to be able to manage that. But there could be some upward pressure on deposit costs.
Speaker #3: We have a good liquidity profile. In fact, we've let some of our higher-cost deposits run off in the first half of the year, as you can see in some of our CD runoff.
Speaker #2: Got it. Okay. Thank you for your thoughts there. And then switching gears to expenses, appreciate the reiterated high 50s efficiency guide. As it relates to just kind of dollar non-interest expense, you referenced seasonal dynamics.
Speaker #3: So, because of our liquidity position, we were able to do that. At the same time, I think there are two factors to consider. One is, we've been seeing it really throughout the first half of the year.
Speaker #2: So could you level set us in terms of how Q2 may compare to where Q3 is headed? And then within that, kind of high 50s target, I mean, what does that mean to you?
Speaker #3: There is definitely more deposit competition out in the market, and we've seen that really build up over the last six months. To give you one example, our largest CD product was a six-month, 3% CD.
Speaker #2: Is there a plus or minus to that? You guys were at like 59.3, I think, last year. Is that some is that a result you might be able to outperform?
Speaker #3: And we found ourselves to be really on the low end of market pricing. If you go out, it's very easy to get over 4% for 12 months.
Speaker #3: Yeah. So in terms of expenses, this quarter, when you look at our expenses year over year, up about 4%. So I think it's a reasonable growth rate.
Speaker #3: And so, we want to make sure that we remain competitive, even though we don't necessarily need the liquidity today. We obviously want to continue to grow our clients.
Speaker #3: When you look at this particular quarter, the majority of our quarter-over-quarter expense was really driven by variable and revenue-driven. Expenses, so it's really a direct result of the outperformance on the top line.
Speaker #3: We want to defend our market share and capture more share. We want to remain competitive. So I think we will, we do have to, we may need to increase in order to grow in some areas and be competitive.
Speaker #3: Although we did have some items, some non-recurring items hit, like we've outlined in our press release. Generally, I think our expenses could be at this level around this level, maybe a little bit lower, going forward.
Speaker #3: And so, that does put some pressure on our deposit costs going forward. But we expect the NIM to be stable. We expect to be able to manage that.
Speaker #3: But there could be some upward pressure on deposit costs.
Speaker #3: But the important thing is a big part of that is revenue-driven. And so to the extent that we continue to outperform on the fee side, on the top line side, that will drive additional expenses.
Speaker #1: Got it. Okay, thank you for your thoughts there. And then, switching gears to expenses, I appreciate the reiterated high-50s efficiency guide. As it relates to just kind of dollar non-interest expense, you referenced seasonal dynamics.
Speaker #3: So we do think of it as a result. You can't disassociate the revenue from the expenses. And so we do think of it in terms of efficiency.
Speaker #1: So, could you level-set us in terms of how Q2 may compare to where Q3 is headed? And then, within that kind of high-50s target, I mean, what does that mean to you?
Speaker #3: As you said, we were over 59% last year. We want to continue to tick that down. We've been 58 for the last two quarters.
Speaker #3: And we're comfortable in the range that we're at. And over time, our goal is to continue to tick that down. And we've got a number of expense initiatives that are ongoing.
Speaker #1: Is there a plus or minus to that? You guys were at like 59.3, I think, last year. Is that a result you might be able to outperform?
Speaker #3: We think about it a lot. Part of our strategy, by the way, around expenses is as you know, we've been exiting some non-businesses that are not central to our strategy.
Speaker #3: Yeah. So in terms of expenses, this quarter, when you look at our expenses year over year, they're up about 4%. So I think it's a reasonable growth rate.
Speaker #3: And that's been an important driver as well. And so overall, I think we'll continue to invest in the business. That's really the number one priority.
Speaker #3: When you look at this particular quarter, the majority of our quarter-over-quarter expense was really driven by variable and revenue-driven expenses, so it's really a direct result of the outperformance on the top line.
Speaker #3: While maintaining discipline and so I think around this efficiency level is where we would expect to be.
Speaker #3: Although we did have some non-recurring items hit, which we've outlined in our press release, generally I think our expenses could be at this level, or maybe a little bit lower, going forward.
Speaker #2: Okay. No, that makes a ton of sense. Thank you, David. And then I guess just last one for me. The 150-plus, that plus sign there in the ROA target, what are the biggest deltas to achieving that?
Speaker #3: But the important thing is, a big part of that is revenue-driven. And so, to the extent that we continue to outperform on the fee side, on the top-line side, that will drive additional expenses.
Speaker #3: Yeah. So I think we we put the plus there because we'd like to come in a little bit better, but obviously continue to outperformance in fees, if we continue to get some of the deposit growth.
Speaker #3: So, we do think of it as a result. You can't disassociate the revenue from the expenses, and so we do think of it in terms of efficiency.
Speaker #3: As you said, we were over 59% last year. We want to continue to tick that down. We've been at 58% for the last two quarters.
Speaker #3: But again, it's a competitive environment. It's not the deposit growth we've seen, I think, is hard to continue at this level. And so that's where some of the pluses and minuses come in.
Speaker #3: And we're comfortable in the range that we're at. Over time, our goal is to continue to tick that down, and we've got a number of expense initiatives that are ongoing.
Speaker #2: Okay. Wonderful. Thank you guys for taking all my questions.
Speaker #3: Thanks, Russell.
Speaker #3: We think about it a lot. Part of our strategy, by the way, around expenses is—as you know—we've been exiting some businesses that are not central to our strategy.
Speaker #1: Your next question from the line of Kelly Motta. With KBW. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Speaker #3: And that's been an important driver as well. So overall, I think we'll continue to invest in the business. That's really the number one priority.
Speaker #4: Hi. This is Megan Lynch on for Kelly Motta. Thanks for taking my question. So loan growth was very solid this quarter. And you're expecting it this growth to sort of continue?
Speaker #3: While maintaining discipline, I think this efficiency level is where we would expect to be.
Speaker #1: Okay, no, that makes a ton of sense. Thank you, David. And then I guess just last one for me—the 150-plus, that plus sign there in the ROA target, what are the biggest deltas to achieving that?
Speaker #4: So can you speak a bit to how pricing is coming in, especially with competition and if this competition is pressuring your prices at all?
Speaker #3: Yeah. So I think we put the plus there because we'd like to come in a little bit better than that—not materially better, but obviously continued outperformance in fees if we continue to get some of the deposit growth.
Speaker #3: Sure. Sure. Happy to talk about that. And I'll maybe split the discussion between commercial and consumer. On the commercial side, as you know, our really our core strategy is to grow our CNI business.
Speaker #3: That's the business that drives our relationship. It's a very important contributor toward deposits. And our non-interest-bearing deposits. And so that's really kind of our flagship product.
Speaker #3: But again, it's a competitive environment. The deposit growth we've seen, I think, is hard to continue at this level, and so that's where some of the pluses and minuses come in.
Speaker #3: A CNI has always been very, very competitive. And continues to get very competitive as others try to penetrate the space. We're not the low-cost provider in the market.
Speaker #1: Okay, wonderful. Thank you, guys, for taking all my questions.
Speaker #3: Thanks, Russell.
Speaker #2: Your next question comes from the line of Kelly Mota with KBW. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Speaker #3: We really separate ourselves based on our service model. Obviously, we need to be competitive, but we separate ourselves based on service, based on our responsiveness, and our relationships.
Speaker #4: Hi, this is Megan Lynch on for Kelly Mota. Thanks for taking my question. Loan growth was very solid this quarter, and you're expecting this growth to continue?
Speaker #3: And so we want to make sure we grow in a reasonable accretive way and that's what we've been doing. And so expect our goal is to continue to grow at kind of mid-single digits through the cycle.
Speaker #4: So can you speak a bit to how pricing is coming in, especially with competition? And if this competition is pressuring your prices at all?
Speaker #3: On the consumer side, our loan strategy, what we've really done is try to focus on areas where we have a differentiated value proposition. And so you've seen us get out of we sold the upstart portfolio last year.
Speaker #3: Sure, sure. Happy to talk about that. And I'll maybe split the discussion between commercial and consumer. On the commercial side, as you know, really our core strategy is to grow our C&I business.
Speaker #3: We sold our credit card portfolio this year. And we really focused on residential lending. In residential lending, we really have a differentiated product there with our service model and our ability clients.
Speaker #3: That's the business that drives our relationship. It's a very important contributor toward deposits, and our non-interest-bearing deposits. So that's really kind of our flagship product.
Speaker #3: But the pricing there, because of the move in rates, that we've seen, the pricing obviously on the residential real estate side has gotten more challenging.
Speaker #3: A C&I has always been very, very competitive, and it continues to get more competitive as others try to penetrate the space. We're not the low-cost provider in the market.
Speaker #3: So I think that's a market dynamic overall.
Speaker #4: Thank you. That was very helpful. And then just switching sort of to credit, you saw some improvement this quarter and the trends seem very solid.
Speaker #3: We really separate ourselves based on our service model. Obviously, we need to be competitive, but we separate ourselves based on service, based on our responsiveness, and our relationships.
Speaker #4: Is there any what are you seeing more broadly? And is there any place that you're watching in your portfolio?
Speaker #3: And so we want to make sure we grow in a reasonably accretive way, and that's what we've been doing. And so, expect that our goal is to continue to grow at kind of mid-single digits through the cycle.
Speaker #3: Yeah. As you mentioned, we've seen we've had good credit performance. We take a very proactive approach to credit. We spend a lot of time on it.
Speaker #3: We're we try to get out early in front of any issues that may appear. And work with our clients to resolve any potential issues.
Speaker #3: On the consumer side, our loan strategy—what we've really done is try to focus on areas where we have a differentiated value proposition. And so, you've seen us get out of—well, we sold the Upstart portfolio last year.
Speaker #3: As you look at the portfolio, there's nothing that they're always individual challenges with particular clients, in particular situations, but there's not a kind of a big red flag when we look across or a theme or pattern.
Speaker #3: We sold our credit card portfolio this year, and we really focused on residential lending. In residential lending, we have a differentiated product there with our service model and our ability to work with different types of clients.
Speaker #3: Office continues to be a challenging market and challenging prices. And we try to be very selective there. But generally, nothing new in terms of any red flags where we can connect the dots across different types of asset classes.
Speaker #3: But the pricing there, because of the move in rates that we've seen, the pricing obviously on the residential real estate side has gotten more challenging.
Speaker #3: So, I think that's a market dynamic overall.
Speaker #4: Awesome. Thank you. That's it from me.
Speaker #3: Thank you.
Speaker #4: Thank you, that was very helpful. And then, just switching over to credit—you saw some improvement this quarter, and the trends seem very solid.
Speaker #1: Your next question from the line of Manuel Navas with Piper Sandler. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Speaker #4: Is there anything that you're seeing more broadly? And is there any area in your portfolio that you're keeping an eye on?
Speaker #5: Hey. Good afternoon. Could you add a little more color on the OpEx discussion? You said there could be some potential variability in the prior conversation.
Speaker #3: Yeah. As you mentioned, we’ve had good credit performance. We take a very proactive approach to credit, and we spend a lot of time on it.
Speaker #5: It sounded like there could be a downward trajectory, but what are some of the projects and things that you need to that add that kind of variability within OpEx?
Speaker #3: We try to get out early in front of any issues that may appear, and work with our clients to resolve any potential issues.
Speaker #5: Or is it just variable comp? Supporting revenues.
Speaker #3: As you look at the portfolio, there are always individual challenges with particular clients and particular situations, but there's not a kind of big red flag when we look across, or a theme or pattern.
Speaker #3: So part of our cost base, Manuel, is variable. And so whenever we have revenue outperformance we're going to see some additional expenses. Some of that is IC.
Speaker #3: And that was a meaningful part this quarter. We also have transaction expenses, for example, in cash connect. We have transaction expenses in our trust businesses.
Speaker #3: Office continues to be a challenging market with challenging prices, and we try to be very selective there. But, generally, there is nothing new in terms of any red flags where we can connect the dots across different types of asset classes.
Speaker #3: And so a portion of that revenue is definitely going to result in higher expenses. And at the same time, we continue to if you look at our core expense base and our base expense level, we continue to try to work that down and continue to try to have initiatives to offset general rising costs inflation and medical expenses and those type of things.
Speaker #4: Awesome. Thank you. That's it from me.
Speaker #3: Thank you.
Speaker #2: Your next question comes from the line of Manuel Navas with Piper Sandler. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Speaker #3: And we have a number of ongoing initiatives. Like I mentioned, some of that has been getting out of businesses that we're not central to our strategy, that had expenses associated with them, that were not highly profitable businesses.
Speaker #5: Hey, good afternoon. Could you add a little more color on the OpEx discussion? You said there could be some potential variability, and in the prior conversation, it sounded like there could be a downward trajectory.
Speaker #3: We've really optimized our real estate portfolio. We have a successful initiative going on around vendor costs. So we've got a number of different initiatives that are offsetting some of the natural increases which is how we get to a 4% year-over-year growth.
Speaker #5: But what are some of the projects and things that you need that add that kind of variability within OpEx? Or is it just variable comp?
Speaker #5: Supporting revenues.
Speaker #3: But the revenue is going to drive some expense with it.
Speaker #3: So, part of our cost base, Manuel, is variable. So whenever we have revenue outperformance, we're going to see some additional expenses. Some of that is IC.
Speaker #5: Yeah. Manuel, I just would add to what David said. I think we're the variability could come into play, is as David said, medical costs, healthcare costs, are a big topic.
Speaker #3: And that was a meaningful part this quarter. We also have transaction expenses, for example, in Cash Connect. We have transaction expenses in our trust businesses.
Speaker #5: And I think it'll continue to be a big topic, although we're doing a I think a very good job of managing that. And like many others, we continue to periodically see fraud spike.
Speaker #3: And so a portion of that revenue is definitely going to result in higher expenses. And at the same time, we continue to if you look at our core expense base and our base expense level, we continue to try to work that down and continue to try to have initiatives to offset general rising costs inflation and medical expenses and those type of things.
Speaker #5: From different events. So I think while we're in a good place, there's always some opportunity that we may see a little bit elevated costs in those two areas.
Speaker #5: And to me, that's really where some of the pressure on driving it down that we can't point a finger on right now could occur.
Speaker #3: And we have a number of ongoing initiatives. Like I mentioned, some of that has been getting out of businesses that were not central to our strategy, that had expenses associated with them, and that were not highly profitable businesses.
Speaker #5: I appreciate that. Shifting over to loan growth, a little bit more set guide here in the back half of the year, mid-single digits. Can you just talk about the main drivers there and what you're seeing in the marketplace from your borrowers in terms of sentiment pipelines and things like that?
Speaker #3: We've really optimized our real estate portfolio. We have a successful initiative going on around vendor costs. So, we've got a number of different initiatives that are offsetting some of the natural increases, which is how we get to a 4% year-over-year growth.
Speaker #3: So I'll talk about sentiment. I've been at a fair bit over the last several weeks. And I would characterize client sentiment as very good.
Speaker #3: But the revenue is going to drive some expense with it.
Speaker #5: Yeah, Manuel, I just would add to what David said. I think where the variability could come into play is, as David said, medical costs—healthcare costs—are a big topic.
Speaker #3: I think there's definitely dealing with some headwinds on the cost side, but all of the what I would say the uncertainty geopolitical events, energy volatility, those kinds of things.
Speaker #5: I think it'll continue to be a big topic, although we're doing, I think, a very good job of managing that. And like many others, we continue to periodically see fraud spikes from different events.
Speaker #3: I think they've kind of either come to accept there's going to be a certain amount of uncertainty or an ability to adjust their businesses based on what they dealt with last year.
Speaker #3: If there's a sudden spike in one cost here or there. So I think that's translating into businesses feeling pretty good and investing. Which should be really good for us on the CNI side.
Speaker #5: So, I think while we're in a good place, there's always some opportunity that we may see a little bit of elevated costs in those two areas.
Speaker #5: And to me, that's really where some of the pressure on driving it down, that we can't point a finger on right now, could occur.
Speaker #3: And people are seeing the benefits of an overall stable economy. And so that's the environment where businesses like to grow and invest and we should benefit from that.
Speaker #5: I appreciate that. Shifting over to loan growth, a little bit more on that—guide here in the back half of the year to mid-single digits. Can you just talk about the main drivers there, and what you're seeing in the marketplace from your borrowers in terms of sentiment, pipelines, and things like that?
Speaker #3: And so that's a big driver of our pipeline and where we're seeing opportunities. And as you know very well, in our marketplace, particularly as you move up the curve in terms of medium-sized businesses, lower end of middle market, really competing against And we find that as David has said, our service proposition plays very well into those kinds of clients.
Speaker #5: So I'll talk about sentiment. I've been at a fair bit over the last several weeks, and I would characterize client sentiment as very good.
Speaker #5: I think there's definitely dealing with some headwinds on the cost side. But all of, what I would say, the uncertainty—geopolitical events, energy volatility, those kinds of things.
Speaker #3: And so growing with our clients as well as taking market share are really the two drivers of where we see loan growth for the rest of the year.
Speaker #5: I think they've either come to accept that there's going to be a certain amount of uncertainty, or they've developed an ability to adjust their businesses based on what they dealt with last year.
Speaker #5: Yeah. And Manuel, I would just add that on the consumer side, a large part of our growth this quarter came from our home lending business.
Speaker #5: If there's a sudden spike in one cost here or there, I think that's translating into businesses feeling pretty good and investing, which should be really good for us on the CNI side.
Speaker #5: We had a really strong pipeline at the end of the first quarter into the spring selling season also some of the lower rates that happened earlier.
Speaker #5: But now we're reaching a little bit of a slower part of the season. And rates have ticked up. So the pipeline has come down a bit.
Speaker #5: And people are seeing the benefits of an overall stable economy, and so that's the environment where businesses like to grow and invest, and we should benefit from that.
Speaker #5: So wouldn't expect that kind of growth that we've seen in home lending necessarily to continue. But still expect to be able to do well there.
Speaker #5: And so, that's a big driver of our pipeline and where we're seeing opportunities. And, as you know very well, in our marketplace—particularly as you move up the curve in terms of medium-sized businesses, the lower end of the middle market—you're really competing against much larger competition.
Speaker #5: I appreciate that. Switching over to deposits. So really strong first half of the year. I think that's a big guide part of the higher guide.
Speaker #5: Is some of the discussion points around NIM and around competitive pressures on deposits, is it because some of the non-interest bearing could flow out?
Speaker #5: And we find that, as David has said, our service proposition plays very well into those kinds of clients. And so, growing with our clients, as well as taking market share, are really the two drivers of where we see loan growth for the rest of the year.
Speaker #5: Could you kind of talk about the non-interest bearing growth, which is great, institutional services are kicking butt. But I'm just wondering how much of that is sticky, how much is that are you kind of preparing for it to flow out if any?
Speaker #5: Just talk about the non-interest bearing side a little bit and how it impacts your deposit process. Sure. Sure. So yeah. Happy to do that, Manuel.
Speaker #3: And Manuel, I would just add that, on the consumer side, a large part of our growth this quarter came from our home lending business.
Speaker #5: So yeah, I think when you think about our non-interest bearing, really the important thing to understand is that those deposits are really spread across a few businesses.
Speaker #3: We had a really strong pipeline at the end of the first quarter into the spring selling season, also some of the lower rates that happened earlier.
Speaker #5: They're spread across commercial, consumer, and institutional services. And within institutional services, they're actually two businesses that are important contributors there. Our corporate trust business, which focuses on the ABS and MBS markets as well as our global capital markets business, which focuses on bankruptcy, y, distressed debt, high yield debt, corporate issuance.
Speaker #3: But now we're reaching a little bit of a slower part of the season, and rates have ticked up, so the pipeline has come down a bit.
Speaker #3: So, we wouldn't expect the kind of growth that we've seen in home lending necessarily to continue, but we still expect to be able to do well there.
Speaker #5: I appreciate that. Switching over to deposits—so, really strong first half of the year. I think that's a big part of the higher guide.
Speaker #5: Both of those, all four of those businesses are important drivers. And when you think about this quarter, probably about 80% of the NIB growth was within institutional services split across both of those businesses and 20% was in commercial.
Speaker #5: Is some of the discussion around NIM and competitive pressures on deposits due to some of the non-interest bearing deposits possibly flowing out?
Speaker #5: So all of them are important drivers. The competition that we're seeing is there are different drivers for each of those businesses in terms of deposit expectations.
Speaker #5: Could you kind of talk about the non-interest bearing growth? Which is great. Institutional services are kicking butt. But I'm just wondering how much of that is sticky?
Speaker #5: The competition that we talked about that we're seeing is really on the in the consumer space and in the commercial space, we're definitely seeing more deposit competition in the market.
Speaker #5: How much of that are you kind of preparing for it to flow out, if any? Just talk about the non-interest-bearing side a little bit, and how it impacts your deposit cost.
Speaker #5: And that may impact both NIB growth as well as pricing going forward. And on the trust side, we've benefited from a very strong market and we've been able to capture share.
Speaker #3: Sure, sure. So, yeah, happy to do that, Manuel. So, yeah, I think when you think about our non-interest-bearing, really the important thing to understand is that those deposits are really spread across a few businesses.
Speaker #5: But again, those are transactional activities. And we're not expecting the kind of growth that we've seen to necessarily continue. I appreciate that. Let me just add one more on kind of capital return.
Speaker #3: They're spread across commercial, consumer, and institutional services. And within institutional services, there are actually two businesses that are important contributors there: our corporate trust business, which focuses on the ABS and MBS markets, as well as our global capital markets business, which focuses on bankruptcy, distressed debt, high-yield debt, and corporate issuance.
Speaker #5: Really strong buyback activity. Is there a point where you become more price sensitive or are you still have so much capital return? And where does buyback stack up with other opportunities you have to deploy?
Speaker #3: Both of those—all four of those businesses—are important drivers. And when we think about this quarter, probably about 80% of the NIB growth was within Institutional Services, split across both of those businesses, and 20% was in Commercial.
Speaker #5: Across organic growth, M&A, just kind of some updated thoughts here.
Speaker #3: Yeah. So generally, as you've showed us, say before, our first priority is always to invest in the business. And we think that that's the best return for shareholders.
Speaker #3: So, all of them are important drivers. The competition that we're seeing is due to different drivers for each of those businesses in terms of deposit expectations.
Speaker #3: And so investing at the right return level in the business is our first priority. We've obviously given you a capital target. We think we have excess capital at the moment.
Speaker #3: The competition that we talked about, that we're seeing, is really in the consumer space. And in the commercial space, we're definitely seeing more deposit competition in the market.
Speaker #3: We look at a couple a number of different metrics there. And since we've rolled out the enhanced capital return framework kind of in the beginning of last year, we've been buying we've been returning about 100% net income.
Speaker #3: And that may impact both NIB growth as well as pricing going forward. On the trust side, we've benefited from a very strong market and have been able to capture share.
Speaker #3: And we've bought back about 14% of our shares going back to the beginning of last year. So over time I generally expect that trend to continue.
Speaker #3: But again, those are transactional activities, and we're not expecting that kind of growth that we've seen to necessarily continue.
Speaker #3: In any given quarter, we may deviate from that depending on what the opportunities are that we have internally, depending on the environment. We look at interest rate volatility, we look at our securities portfolio.
Speaker #5: I appreciate that. Let me just add one more on capital return. Really strong buyback activity— is there a point where you become more price sensitive, or do you still have so much capital to return?
Speaker #3: So we look at it from multiple different perspectives. And that's why in any given quarter, we may deviate from that. But when you think about it over a multi-quarter period, we'd like to be in that 100% capital return.
Speaker #5: And where does buyback stack up with the other opportunities you have to deploy, across organic growth, M&A? Just kind of some updated thoughts here.
Speaker #3: So I'm not necessarily going to throw out a price target at which we stop or go. I think it's I think it depends on all of those factors.
Speaker #3: Yeah, so generally, as you've shown us before, our first priority is always to invest in the business, and we think that's the best return for shareholders.
Speaker #3: And what else we have as opportunities internally.
Speaker #5: And outside opportunities?
Speaker #3: And so, investing at the right return level in the business is our first priority. We've obviously given you a capital target, and we think we have excess capital at the moment.
Speaker #3: So you're referring to M&A and those kinds of things, Manuel?
Speaker #5: Yes. Yes.
Speaker #3: Yeah. So I think as we've said, I think if anything that we find could be additive and accretive to our current strategic plan, we would absolutely look at those opportunities.
Speaker #3: We look at a number of different metrics there. And since we've rolled out the enhanced capital return framework, kind of in the beginning of last year, we've been buying—well, we've been returning about 100% of net income.
Speaker #3: Across the franchise. So whether it's in the feed businesses, particularly the wealth side, would absolutely look at those kinds of opportunities. And I'd say the same thing on the banking side.
Speaker #3: And we've bought back about 14% of our shares going back to the beginning of last year, so I generally expect that trend to continue.
Speaker #3: I think the challenge on the banking side as we look at our footprint and our region, we feel like there's a lot of opportunity here.
Speaker #3: In any given quarter, we may deviate from that depending on what the opportunities are that we have internally, depending on the environment. We look at interest rate volatility; we look at our securities portfolio.
Speaker #3: And so the bar would be pretty high for us to take some portion of our organizational bandwidth and pivot away from the organic opportunity that's right in front of us.
Speaker #3: So we look at it from multiple different perspectives, and that's why in any given quarter we may deviate from that. But when you think about it over a multi-quarter period, we'd like to be in that 100% capital return.
Speaker #3: If it's there, we will absolutely go for it. And as David said, we always want to take the opportunity to accretively invest in the business.
Speaker #3: So I'm not necessarily going to throw out a price target at which we stop or go. I think it depends on all of those factors.
Speaker #3: I think it's just it's important that it's accretive to what we've already got going from an organic standpoint.
Speaker #3: And what else do we have as opportunities internally?
Speaker #5: And outside opportunities?
Speaker #5: I really appreciate the commentary. Thank you so much.
Speaker #3: Thanks, Manuel.
Speaker #4: So you're referring to M&A and those kinds of things, Manuel?
Speaker #1: Your next question from the line of Christopher Marinac with Breen Capital, LLC. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Speaker #5: Yes. Yes.
Speaker #4: Yeah. So, I think, as we've said, if anything that we find could be additive and accretive to our current strategic plan, we would absolutely look at those opportunities across the franchise.
Speaker #4: And good afternoon. I wanted to ask about the percentage of fee income to the overall business. Would you see this rising further into '27 and '28?
Speaker #4: So whether it's in the fee businesses, particularly the wealth side, we would absolutely look at those kinds of opportunities. And I'd say the same thing on the banking side.
Speaker #4: And then does that give you even more flexibility on loan growth in terms of being even more selective than you have been?
Speaker #4: I think the challenge on the banking side, as we look at our footprint and our region, is that we feel like there's a lot of opportunity here.
Speaker #3: So generally, we've we've been able to grow both. And that's why that ratio has been generally consistent because we've been able to grow both.
Speaker #4: And so the bar would be pretty high for us to take some portion of our organizational bandwidth and pivot away from the organic opportunity that's right in front of us.
Speaker #3: Our wealth and trust business, as you know, has been a fast grower, but that's been offset a bit by our cash connect business because of the interest rate impact on the top line there.
Speaker #4: If it's there, we will absolutely go for it. And as David said, we always want to take the opportunity to accretively invest in the business.
Speaker #3: In a steady state environment, generally would expect that our fees will probably go slightly faster all else being equal. But we don't necessarily manage to a particular number there.
Speaker #4: I think it's just important that it's accretive to what we've already got going from an organic standpoint.
Speaker #3: What we're trying to we're trying to grow both. And so we have a positive growth in the top line altogether.
Speaker #5: I really appreciate the commentary. Thank you so much.
Speaker #3: Thanks, Manuel.
Speaker #4: Got it. And then I guess back to the concept of being selective in terms of who you're doing business with and particularly not having to grow extremely fast on loans.
Speaker #1: Your next question comes from the line of Christopher Marinac with Brean Capital LLC. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Speaker #4: Is that helping you on deposits? And is the deposit gathering that you are seeing that success kind of a function of just really being focused in on the best customers who have funding?
Speaker #2: And good afternoon. I wanted to ask about the percentage of fee income to the overall business. Would you see this rising further into '27 and '28?
Speaker #3: Yeah. I think certainly when we look at when we look at lending opportunities, we the relationship is really important to us. And the deposits that those clients bring in are really important to us.
Speaker #2: And then, does that give you even more flexibility on loan growth, in terms of being even more selective than you have been?
Speaker #3: So, generally, we've been able to grow both, and that's why that ratio has been generally consistent—because we've been able to grow both.
Speaker #3: So we try to invest our management bandwidth into those types of opportunities. So it's not the only thing we do. And as you know, for example, the commercial real estate business tends to be a bit more transactional.
Speaker #3: Our Wealth and Trust business, as you know, has been a fast grower, but that's been offset a bit by our Cash Connect business because of the interest rate impact on the top line there.
Speaker #3: And we have great clients there. And we continue to invest and continue to grow that business. But ideally, we have those opportunities to bring a broader relationship, which is not just deposits, but also across wealth, across treasury services, and that's what we think one of our big value propositions is, to bring the full firm.
Speaker #3: In a steady-state environment, generally we would expect that our fees will probably grow slightly faster, all else being equal. But we don't necessarily manage to a particular number there.
Speaker #3: What we're trying to do is grow both, and so we have positive growth in the top line altogether.
Speaker #5: Yeah. Chris, I don't think we look at it as sort of managing to find where there's the highest level of deposits in a C and I relationship.
Speaker #2: Got it. And then, I guess back to the concept of being selective in terms of who you're doing business with, and particularly not having to grow extremely fast on loans.
Speaker #5: We take a relationship return view on all commercial relationships. So we look at all the business we can get. As David said, typically in the C and I business, you're getting all the operating accounts, which could bring significant deposits.
Speaker #2: Is that helping you on deposits? And is the deposit gathering that you are seeing that success kind of a function of just really being focused in on the best customers who have funding?
Speaker #5: And the other business that we do, and as long as it crosses our threshold, with the loan pricing that we have, that's accretive to what we're doing.
Speaker #3: Yeah. I think certainly when we look at when we look at lending opportunities, we the relationship is really important to us. And the deposits that those clients bring in are really important to us.
Speaker #5: And that's really the way we're selective on clients. We can be super aggressive on credit pricing for the right opportunity as long as we get the full relationship.
Speaker #3: So, we try to invest our management bandwidth into those types of opportunities. It's not the only thing we do. And, as you know, for example, the commercial real estate business tends to be a bit more transactional.
Speaker #5: So we really look at it much more that way. Then trying to think about how much in deposits we may or may not get from a client.
Speaker #4: Okay. That's great. Thank you for clarifying that. I appreciate it. And back to the capital goals. Is there a time frame on when you want to get that towards '12?
Speaker #3: And we have great clients there, and we continue to invest and continue to grow that business. But ideally, we have those opportunities that bring a broader relationship, which is not just deposits, but also across wealth, across treasury services. And that's where we think one of our big value propositions is—to bring the full firm.
Speaker #4: Or are we still just going to be multi-quarters ahead?
Speaker #3: Yeah. No particular time frame, Chris. For example, when you look at this quarter, if you just look at this quarter, I think we're down 15 bips and if you just do the mountain CT1, if you just do the math on that, you're talking about kind of two and a half to three years.
Speaker #4: Yeah. Chris, I don't think we look at it as sort of managing to find where there's the highest level of deposits in a C&I relationship.
Speaker #4: We take a relationship return view on all commercial relationships. So, we look at all the business we can get. As David said, typically in the C&I business, you're getting all the operating accounts, which could bring significant deposits.
Speaker #3: So I think it's a multi-year trajectory. But we also look at TC is really important our security portfolio is really important in the impact on capital.
Speaker #3: So we look at a number of different factors there. So no, no particular timeline we want to continue with the measured approach at about 100%.
Speaker #4: And the other business that we do, as long as it crosses our threshold, with the loan pricing that we have, that's accretive to what we're doing.
Speaker #3: But again, we may deviate from that quarter to quarter.
Speaker #4: Okay. And I guess to that point, does the AOCI return is any of that lumpy in the next year or two in terms of some pre-planned return?
Speaker #4: And that's really the way we're selective on clients. We can be super aggressive on credit pricing for the right opportunity, as long as we get the full relationship.
Speaker #3: I wouldn't say so. I think it's been pretty consistent. Most probably 95% of our portfolio is invested in MBS. And so there's no credit risk there.
Speaker #4: So we really look at it much more that way than trying to think about how much in deposits we may or may not get from a client.
Speaker #2: Okay, that's great. Thank you for clarifying that. I appreciate it. And back to the capital goals, is there a timeframe on when you want to get that towards 12?
Speaker #3: It's been pretty consistent with the way that AOCI has been coming off. We've had it move the other way in the last couple of quarters.
Speaker #3: And that's really been a function of rate. But it's down materially from where we were post-COVID. And we'll continue to tick down kind of gradually.
Speaker #2: Are we still just going to be multi-quarters ahead?
Speaker #3: Yeah, no particular timeframe, Chris. For example, when you look at this quarter—if you just look at this quarter—I think we're down 15 bps, and if you just do the math on CET1, if you just do the math on that, you're talking about kind of two and a half to three years.
Speaker #4: Got it. Okay. Very well. Thank you for taking the questions today.
Speaker #3: Thank you, Chris. Appreciate it.
Speaker #1: Your next question from the line of Janet Lee with TD Callan. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Speaker #3: So, I think it's a multi-year trajectory. But we also look at TC as really important, and our securities portfolio is really important in the impact on capital.
Speaker #2: Good afternoon. On institutional services, I know that there's a big portion of that growth is coming from the market share gains specifically on the corporate trust side.
Speaker #3: So, we look at a number of different factors there, so no particular timeline. We want to continue with the measured approach at about 100%.
Speaker #3: But again, we may deviate from that, quarter to quarter.
Speaker #2: Okay. And I guess to that point, does the AOCI return— is any of that lumpy in the next year or two in terms of something pre-planned?
Speaker #2: But you've also been benefiting from the secular tailwinds from the private capital securitization. I just want to see if you could provide some context around whether the strengths there industry-wide is persisting or if there's any change there.
Speaker #3: I wouldn't say so. I think it's been pretty consistent; most probably, 95% of our portfolio is invested in MBS, and so there's no credit risk there.
Speaker #2: And whether that's an important factor in when we forecast your investment management or wealth and trust revenues.
Speaker #3: It's been pretty consistent with the way that AOCI has been coming off. We've had it move the other way in the last couple of quarters.
Speaker #3: And that's really been a function of rate. But it's down materially from where we were post-COVID, and we'll continue to tick down kind of gradually.
Speaker #3: Yeah. Yeah. So Janet, let me back up a little bit and just talk about I think it's important when you think about institutional services to consider both businesses there, both corporate trust and global capital markets.
Speaker #2: Got it. Okay. Very well. Thank you for taking the questions today.
Speaker #3: When you look at, for example, our NIB growth this quarter, both were important contributors. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, both were also important contributors.
Speaker #3: Thank you, Chris. Appreciate it.
Speaker #1: Your next question comes from the line of Janet Lee with TD Cowen. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Speaker #3: On the fee side. To your direct question around the growth of that ABS and MBS market, it has continued to grow. And the first half of 26 rankings just came out.
Speaker #5: Good afternoon.
Speaker #3: Hi, Janet.
Speaker #5: On Institutional Services, I know that a big portion of that growth is coming from market share gains, specifically on the Corporate Trust side.
Speaker #3: We increased share, but the market also grew. And that market's been growing 20 to 30 percent. And we've been growing on top of that.
Speaker #5: But you've also been benefiting from the secular tailwinds from private capital securitization. I just want to see if you could provide some context around whether the strength there industry-wide is persisting, or if there's any change there.
Speaker #3: So I think generally, when you have whenever you can obviously take share in a market that's growing that quickly, it's very accretive to results.
Speaker #3: And that's what's been happening. But I think it's important to also recognize what the differentiating factors are for us. And there are a number of them.
Speaker #5: And whether that's an important factor when we forecast your investment management or wealth and trust revenues.
Speaker #3: But in general, we have I can summarize it by saying that we have the balance sheet strength of some of the larger players but are much more nimble and are much more and have a much better service model.
Speaker #3: And so when you think about our ability to move quickly, our ability to innovate with clients, that has allowed us to take share. And that market is a market where reputation matters a lot.
Speaker #3: Yeah. Yeah. So Janet, let me back up a little bit and just talk about—I think it's important when you think about institutional services to consider both businesses there, both Corporate Trust and Global Capital Markets.
Speaker #3: When you look at, for example, our NIB growth this quarter, both were important contributors. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, both were also important contributors.
Speaker #3: And the better we do, the more we win. And so those have been some of the dynamics that have been a play here and what has allowed us to take share on top of the strong growth.
Speaker #3: On the fee side, to your direct question around the growth of that ABS and MBS market, it has continued to grow. And the first half 2026 rankings just came out.
Speaker #3: I think that market has been a good growing market for a number of years. I don't think this pace of growth is something I would necessarily extrapolate.
Speaker #3: But we believe we continue to believe in our ability to win share. And play in different asset classes and play different roles there.
Speaker #3: We increased our share, but the market also grew. That market has been growing 20% to 30%, and we've been growing on top of that.
Speaker #2: Thank you. And going back to non-interest bearing deposit obviously very impressive growth again this quarter. And I appreciate the comment around how we sustaining this level of growth may not be it's not an easy fit.
Speaker #3: So I think generally, whenever you can obviously take share in a market that's growing that quickly, it's very accretive to results.
Speaker #3: And that's what's been happening. But I think it's important to also recognize what the differentiating factors are for us, and there are a number of them.
Speaker #3: But in general, we have I can summarize it by saying that we have the balance sheet strengths of some of the larger players but are much more nimble and are much more and have a much better service model.
Speaker #2: In terms of your 385 net interest margin, guidance, are you contemplating any further growth in non-interest bearing deposits or maybe what level of NIB as a percentage of total deposit is assumed in your guidance?
Speaker #3: And so, when you think about our ability to move quickly—our ability to innovate with clients—that has allowed us to take share. And that market is a market where reputation matters a lot.
Speaker #3: Yeah. So I think it's generally I think if we keep it at this level, it would be really great. I'm not sure we can sustain it at this level of 37%.
Speaker #3: And the better we do, the more we win. And so, those have been some of the dynamics that have been in play here, and what has allowed us to take share on top of the strong growth.
Speaker #3: Historically, we've kind of run in the low 30s. But I think low to mid 30s mid 30s is would be a good level to maintain.
Speaker #3: I think that market has been a good, growing market for a number of years. I don't think this pace of growth is something I would necessarily extrapolate.
Speaker #3: And in general, as we grow deposits, we want to maintain that level. I think this has been real outperformance. But Janet, I think the other thing to consider is when you have non-interest bearing deposit growth based on where rates are today, if those deposits are invested in cash, it's not necessarily accretive to net interest margin.
Speaker #3: But we continue to believe in our ability to win share, and play in different asset classes, and play different roles there.
Speaker #5: Thank you. And going back to non-interest-bearing deposits, obviously very impressive growth again this quarter. And I appreciate the comment around how sustaining this level of growth may not be—it's not an easy feat.
Speaker #3: So it's really a push, I would say generally, to where net interest margin is. So the upside to net interest margin is really going to be driven by our ability to loan growth, our ability to invest those non-interest bearing deposits at something that's higher than cash.
Speaker #5: In terms of your 3.85% net interest margin guidance, are you contemplating any further growth in non-interest-bearing deposits, or maybe what level of NIB as a percentage of total deposits is assumed in your guidance?
Speaker #3: Because otherwise, it would just be a push.
Speaker #2: Makes sense. All right. Thank you.
Speaker #3: Thank you.
Speaker #1: And with no further questions in the queue, I would like to turn the call back over to David Burg.
Speaker #3: Yeah. So I think, generally, if we keep it at this level, it would be really great. I'm not sure we can sustain it at this level of 37%.
Speaker #3: Okay. Thank you very much. We appreciate you joining the call today. If you have any specific follow-up questions, please reach out to Andrew at Investor Relations or me.
Speaker #3: Have a great day and a great weekend, everyone.
Speaker #3: Historically, we've kind of run in the low 30s, but I think low to mid-30s would be a good level to maintain. And in general, as we grow deposits, we want to maintain that level.
Speaker #3: I think this has been real outperformance. But Janet, I think the other thing to consider is, when you have non-interest-bearing deposit growth based on where rates are today, if those deposits are invested in cash, it's not necessarily accretive to net interest margin.
Speaker #3: So it's really a push, I would say, generally to where net interest margin is. So the upside to net interest margin is really going to be driven by our ability for loan growth, our ability to invest those non-interest-bearing deposits at something that's higher than cash, because otherwise it would just be a push.
Speaker #5: Makes sense. All right. Thank you.
Speaker #3: Thank you.
Speaker #1: And with no further questions in the queue, I would like to turn the call back over to David Burg.
Speaker #3: Okay, thank you very much. We appreciate you joining the call today. If you have any specific follow-up questions, please reach out to Andrew at Investor Relations or to me.
Speaker #3: Have a great day and a great weekend, everyone.
