Q4 2019 Earnings Call
[music].
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by.
Welcome to the Genworth and my candidate Inc. 2019 fourth quarter earnings Conference call. At this time, all participants are any listen only mode.
Following managements prepared remarks, we will conduct a question and answer session and instructions will be provided at that time. If anyone has difficulty hearing the conference. Please press star followed by zero for operator assistance at any time.
I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded today.
I will now turn the conference.
Over the Air and Williams, Vice President Finance and Investor Relations Mr. Williams you May proceed.
Thank you good morning, everyone for joining Genworth, Canada fourth quarter 2019 earnings call.
Today's call first we're running for President and Chief Executive Officer.
There are chief financial Officer.
We will start with her prepared remarks, all by an open question answer session.
Our news release, including or management crushing and analysis, that's an interesting.
She supplement.
Released last night in are posted on our website at Www <unk>.
Okay.
Well into our life webcast and the slides for today's discussion are also posted on our website.
A replay of this call will be available.
Their number noted in a press release and will also be available on our website following today's presentation.
Well the available online for approximately 45.
The following today.
As a reminder, or presentation and discussion today contain a disclaimer on forward looking statements and non I have for Dayton on disclosure.
We know that our actual results may differ from Steven that we make which are forward looking.
We invite you to read the cautionary note regarding these forward looking.
David.
Well.
Some of the financial metrics presented on this call today, our non IRS measures and as such do not have a standardized meaning and are unlikely to be comparable similar measures by other companies.
I would now like to turn the call over to Stuart to begin his remarks Stuart.
Thanks, Aaron Good morning, Thanks for joining our call. This morning, I'm going to walk through some p. financial highlights from our performance in 2019 and share some perspectives on the effect of shaping our outlook for 2020.
I will discuss some of the highlights from our fourth quarter results I'll wrap up with a reminder, about key strategic priorities for.
You're right.
We're very pleased with our 2019 results, particularly our topline momentum and the progress towards a more efficient capital structure.
Overall, we delivered on our commitments the strong underwriting performance in line with our expectations proactive investment management and another year of strong portfolio quality.
Well there were delivered net operating income of $466 million and diluted operating earnings per share of $5.38.
To the sent over 2018.
This generated a return on equity of 12% this.
These results reflect consistent premiums earned and growth in operating investment income.
Offset by higher losses on claims as Alberta, and the various continue to feel pressure from weak housing and labor markets.
Net premiums written totaled $701 billion up 10% over the prior year, we're very pleased with the return of growth transactional mode insurance market due in our view two or more.
Confident first time homebuyer, they're relatively improve affordability driven by lower interest rates and strong income growth.
That 17% our full year loss ratio came in towards the lower end of our estimated range of 15% to 25% and up two points from the prior year. This performance continues to reflect the.
You have a high quality well diversified insurance portfolio in a resilient economic environment.
As noted at our recent Investor day, well go to end. The pro is continue to represent a disproportionately large share about total losses in claims, reflecting the weaker economic and housing environment in those regions driven by ongoing pressure on.
Oil industry.
We do however expect losses on claims and these two reasons the stabilized during this year and gradually improve over the next few years based on the current consensus economic forecast.
Overall, we anticipate our loss ratio will reflect the stabilization along with ongoing normalization in other regions.
For the country and gradually return to our long run expectation of 20% to 25% over the next few years based on our current market assumptions, we expect to full year loss ratio range of 15% to 25% for 2020.
Our view the majority of Canadian housing markets have adjusted to the mortgage rates stress test.
And our exhibiting more sustainable dynamics with sales volumes in line with historic norms and modest price appreciation.
We're also pleased to note that I'll boaters market recently returned to balance state in terms of demand and supply, which should bode well for the anticipated recovery in that region.
The greater Vancouver region.
Continues to see increased sales volumes, which should provide support for house price stability, particularly in the higher end segment, which is felt the most pressure.
Sales volumes at house price appreciation in the greater Toronto region reflective fully recovered market and should continue to experienced growth in the current go.
Affordability for first time homebuyers.
Relatively improved over the prior year remains a constraining factor in both these markets, particularly for single detached homes.
While the federal first time home by incentive program has been in place since before basher. It appears to have had little impact of these two regions. It remains to be seen any enhancements, we made to the pro that and if that will have an impact.
On affordability in these markets.
Mustard and risk continued to prevail, including trade uncertainty geopolitical and other disruptions such as the current of ours, the general macroeconomic and demographic factors, including interest rates employment income growth and immigration remain supportive overall for the Canadian housing market.
Finally, we expect ongoing positive momentum in the housing market, including the first time homebuyers segment that together with our strategy focused on growing market share should bode well for modest growth until their premiums written in 2020.
We ended the year with an estimated Mike that ratio of 170% five points above.
The top of our targeted operating range of 160% to 165%.
Our capital priorities remain focused on supporting our core business volumes and ordinary dividends along with redeployment of available excess capital. This continues to be an active part of our strategy as we focus on driving a more efficient capital structure that as.
Brent flexibility and are are we improvement.
As part of the ongoing focus on capital efficiency. We are pleased to have returned a total of $608 million to shareholders. During 2019 in the form of share buybacks ordinary and special dividends as noted during our Investor day, our business continues to transition from a relatively.
The larger enforce portfolios listened in 2015, and 16, and we'll continue to generate capital in excess of our organic growth needs in 2020.
Based on our current assumptions, we expect to generate excess capital of $400 million to $500 million. This year. This is an addition to the special dividend or 200 million.
Announced on January 15, which will be funded primarily from our new debt facility, increasing our leverage to around 15% inline with our stated target.
As noted on our third quarter 2019 earnings call, we increased our quarterly dividend by 6% to 54 cents per common share and paid a total of $2 and severance.
Since becoming shift for the year up 8% over the prior.
This point I will turn the call over to fill for a more detailed review of our fourth quarter results before wrapping up and going into Q in there.
Please turn to good morning.
Overall fourth quarter results traded aligned with our expectation was reported net operating leverage as well.
<unk> million dollars in loss ratio, 20% and strong year over year growth its little premiums rate.
For the full year total premiums written increased by 10%. This contributed to premiums are made consistent.
Quarter over quarter and 171 million.
Thanks, Good luck complaints $34 million.
For higher sequentially by 3 million, primarily due to typical seasonality.
We saw a small increase in some of the number of utilities secured as seasonal increases in Ontario, and the periods were partially offset by decreases the rest of the century.
No contributor to the higher losses with a modest decreases the ambitions are doing.
Reflecting seasonality and the ongoing claims severity pressure downward in the period.
The number of England's these totaled 1798 represented increased 114 year over year, driven primarily by operator it varies.
The expense ratio of 20% with consistent wearable.
Third quarter, two weeks that 35 million inclusive of a month decreased and share based compensation expense.
Total operating vessels equal to 50 sites, where they were generally in line prior quarter in the portfolio yields remained relatively stable around 3.2%.
In total net operating income of one.
Lenses, you bumped million was lower by 3 million sequentially, primarily due to lower grade.
These results translated into lead diluted operating EPS of $1.30 cents for the quarter.
With respect to reiterate profitability, we're pleased with the consistency of premiums are too of course of 2090.
With a 42020, we expect premiums or the flat or monthly higher reflecting the higher level premiums written in 2019, we expected continuation of this trend into 2020.
In recent years, you've seen relatively low loss ratios the group as a generally stable or improving macroeconomic environment.
That said loss performance in Alberta increase was pressured by high unemployment levels the legal prices in 2019.
While we expect economic issues. They like these regions will likely be were key drivers of the 2020 expected loss ratio range of 15% to 25%.
With the closing of the Brookfield transaction.
Transition efforts are underway to migrate or environment for planning purposes, as standalone data platform.
With the additional onetime transition expenses, we expect our expense ratio to be at or slightly above 20% at 2020.
After 2020, we expect or expense, we should moderate back within our target ranges.
20% as the rationalize our infrastructure.
In total underwriting profitably is expected to remain strong in 2000 sleep.
With our focus on capital efficiency as a result teamed up 200 million special dividends at December 2000 like.
Presented portfolio declined quarter over quarter.
Approximately 230 million 6.4 billion or asset mix is generally unchanged with personal the duration remains relatively short at 3.6 years.
The 2020 outlook is for flat or lower interest rates well creates that are expected to remain relatively flat.
Against this backdrop we're.
Leak into the high credit quality portfolio with the three tactical Tokyo around the current level of 3.2%. The redeployment organically generated capital will be funded for the most part two bond maturity and cash flow from operation, which will reduce or read but.
However, total operating Metalico is expected to.
The monthly lower primarily due to lower vested after after the anticipated redeployment of additional capital to better explain.
We ended the year visit estimated my Cat racial leverage at 30% well above where desired operate and target range it wasn't 60% to 165%.
Early in our recently that.
Today capital efficiency is a key priority. So this thing we've taken several actions in January including the phones.
We extended are available they create lead to included 200 million dollar five year term loan in a 200 million bridge loan. In addition to the 300 million revolving credit facility and we declared a further 200 million special that.
The January 15th you funded primarily from digital leverage.
After funding the recent special dividends it that relentlessly should stand at approximately 15% consistent with our long run leverage target.
Stuart noted the company continues to generate capital in excess work business requirement principally for ongoing profitability in the.
Each of the 2016 prior over.
With our goal is operating within my count ratio closer to 165% the company expects to redeploy 400 500 million work. It we generate after 2000 plenti over and above the quarterly dividends in the recently declared 200 million special dividend.
We expect capital.
We put it together really priest levers to contribute to improved capital efficiency in our lead growth 2020.
With respect to our June 2021 maturity of 175 million, we're actively exploring refleeting options and the public debt market, where they tend to keep their leverage around 15%.
In summary, we continue to Val.
Capital strength efficiency and flexibility and are well positioned in all of these rights to support the businesses growth profitability objectives.
I'll now turn the call back that search conclude our prepared remarks, Sir thanks, Phil We view the current economic environment as constructive for our business with positive fundamentals, including job and income growth and.
Relatively low and stable interest rates.
Furthermore, we see a strong pipeline of future first time homebuyers due to the robust level immigration big target over the next three years that said, we also acknowledge the ongoing presence will be cannot make uncertainty related to global trade geopolitical events and the long economic cycle.
And our view.
Our high quality, well diversified insurance portfolio together without disciplined risk management and underwriting practices represent significant risk mitigant, which position us well to manage through variability in economic performance.
We are pleased to enter this new decade, with Brookfield business partners as our new majority shareholder.
As discussed.
At our recent Investor day, we believe the Brookfield transaction will be of strategic benefit to our business over the coming years. Our strategy for 2020 is focused on prudent growth capital efficiency disciplined risk management industry thought leadership and delivering a best in class customer service experience execution on these.
Priorities should help to maintain our topline momentum high quality portfolio and drive or are we improvement. Thanks for listening that concludes our prepared remarks, I'll now turn the call back to the upgraded to commence procure Nick.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we will now conduct a question and answer session as a reminder.
The conference is being recorded for replay purposes, we ask that you refrain from using cell phones speaker phones are headsets during the Kenny portion of today's call. If you have a question. Please press the star followed by the one on your Touchtone phone you will hear a tone acknowledging go reclassed your questions will be pulled in the order they are received.
One moment. Please for your first question.
Well take our first question from Jeff Kwan with RBC capital markets.
Hi, Good morning, I'm, just a question on debt credit facility. The T. had in place. It's the the 12 month, sorry, the 12 month bridge to sell their stake.
Got it should we interpret it as being given your flexibility to take up the leverage on the short term basis.
And maybe do some returns of capital and then and team maybe term it out and that's why it's going to go away or is there. Another reason for that aspect of the credit facility.
Hey, Jeff itself I think the credit facility the British.
Really is really gives us additional flexibility I think or general.
Philosophy is more likely to use the term.
City and necessarily the bridge facility I think we get declares a dividend and on January 15 for that will be funded through increased leverage through a drawn the term loan thereafter I think.
Return on capital will be more organically generated so we don't anticipate further leverage for return to capital.
Okay.
And then now I know, it's still very early days with that but try to answer your new owner, but have you had any discussions with them you know some of your larger customers and potential to.
Maybe get a little bit more business from them.
Yeah, Jeff that's true here and I would say to your point. It is still very early on here. Ultimately we view Brookfield has a very very strong counterparty and I would say that in our early discussions with our our lenders there certainly acknowledgment of that so I think we still view this as.
TGP beneficial to our our momentum and our goal is a growing up business, but it is definitely very early on in terms of any actual changes in everything in that regard.
Okay and they just the last question had is done any insights you have is for slowly heading into the spring housing season as to how it's shaping up.
Yeah were definitely encouraged by you know the momentum we so I'm trying to 19 and even into the Endo try 19, and I'd say by all accounts you know, giving similar conditions in the economy, we expect that to continue on into this year and as you know there's definitely some speculation around mortgage rates coming down a little but.
As the back kinda, you'll is dropping I think that will be a further supportive for a robust housing markets. The spring and then to this year.
Okay, great. Thank you.
Your next question comes from at 10, Mckennon with BMO capital.
Yeah.
Yeah. Thanks, Tom Mackinnon here My question really on me two things really how should we be looking at the the cost of the debt and the debt facility or the 200 that especially your funding with that and just for modeling purposes, and then as a follow up.
In terms of organically generating capital of 29 team was north of 400, you're guiding to 400 to 500 for 2020.
It's just a trend that we should be looking at tech continues through 2021, a is something in the 400 ish range in 2021 Ah.
Seem reasonable in your opinion.
Thanks.
Hey, Tom excuse me Tom itself I would suspect to the cost that no I think that you know given where.
Yields are today, we expect the cost of equity somewhere around 3%. So you know three to 325 is the likely range.
The cost of that which we find very attractive and hence you know why we think that overtime used the term loan. It's very beneficial in addition to refinancing or June maturity at this time, a with respect to organic capital generation you know I would say they as we continue to grow our top line through 2020, the return of capital.
Well the organically generate capital will decline overtime. So we wouldn't expect it necessarily to me the similar range as it wasn't 20, nineteena and as Weve guided for 2020, So I would suggest it would be lower I would say relatively more in the range of you know to 52 350 would be more.
As you look for we're trying to anyone for 22 anyway.
Okay. Thanks.
Your next question comes from Paul Holden with C.I.D.C.
Hi, good morning.
First on the increase in delinquencies, Ontario and I.
Realize that it's relatively small number but [noise].
Is there anything to take away from that is it maybe a one off is that how are you seeing some trends I would suggest continued claims pressure, Ontario or is this just you know the normalization story, we'd be talking about it for sometime now.
Ill call. It is really a you know you got.
To figuring some seasonality to that too because I think we're seeing such a low pass it up losses over the last couple of years at one sometimes forget about the normal seasonality, but heading into the winter months into the fourth quarter, it's definitely not unusual to see a pickup in Dallas that then kind of subside again into the spring months of the following year or so our.
Fourth quarter like Terrier doubts I would not see as something that was trending all or part of the normalization that was just normal seasonality. The normalization overall, it's just a general lift you'll see in Ontario, BC over time.
Coming off exceptionally low levels in the past two years.
Okay.
Next question are there any update you can provide us on the product development or a initiate yesterday's you highlighted at the Investor day related it's only two months later about anything shoe update on a spot in terms of.
Confidence around being able to launch those programs and 2020.
Yeah, we're still definitely a working towards the 2020 large obviously at this point it is and with the regulator or we are in dialogue with them.
There's no clear indication at this point as to when we made here from an approval players. So I think you know.
Our readiness is for 2020 were preparing our systems out to be able to launch event and ready it's a matter of when the regulator comes through with a a final decision on that.
[noise] following question that obviously you've had.
Discussions around or with your a your lending.
Our University must have good level of comfort that that demand for the product is there like how quickly could you turn on the top once you got regulatory approval.
I would say very quickly I know that's that's part of my point on on being ready I think we want to be able to literally.
Go to the next day, if we get a regulatory approval and there is definitely a to your point.
Fair degree of interest from our lender partners and therefore, I think we could turn that on pretty quick.
Okay.
And.
Is that incorporated into your.
20, Twond he guidance, let's call it whether it's you know.
I guess really on the premiums written line from for modest growth.
No I would say, it's not I mean, obviously, because it's contingent on a regulatory approval, we can save for sure which way that'll go what were talking about in terms of modest growth in our premiums written as.
Already coming out of our core business on the back of a strong housing market and ongoing share pursuit.
Okay that makes sense.
And then I'd also like the same assumption regarding your.
Organic.
Capital generation targets that you've you've laid out for 2020, maybe you could give us a.
Their sense of.
Is there a difference and the amount of capital about that.
Let's just call it non regulated or new business would require versus your traditional a insurance product.
At this point that hasn't been completed determine where.
That's part of our discussion with the regulator, but I will say that we have certainly taken the potential launch of that product into account in our capital estimation. So that when we say that 400 to 500 from an organic point of view. It does contemplate a lot for that product sometime in the you're kinda [laughter] a one last quick one from me are you able to.
We have a pro forma my cat ratio I'm following the January special.
All right I think generally as we noted before you know we went off rate closer to our 165 in the Europe 175 that five points is about 125 million.
Capital.
So even with a 200 million you know that was still means that we would expect to be operating well above 165, and as I noted, though that dividends being funded and leverage so that won't necessarily impact my cat ratio right certainly historical operating closer to the 165 levels. He goes through.
Of course there.
Okay that makes sense okay. Thank you.
Your next question comes from Grant writing with TD Securities.
[noise], Oh, hi, good morning.
Starting with your your capital return food in last year, you, where you were more biased towards.
Specialty.
Dividends versus.
Versus buybacks.
In 2020.
Should we expect a similar mix or is it possible that you only do special dividends.
Well I think it's got to be a function of where the stock is trading at and a as as we would expect right now I think we are looking at.
More special dividend path, that's not to say, we're close to the potential for a stock buyback if the conditions where appropriate for that.
You know at this point for this year, we have a view that we got to be distributing this capital to the degree that US access you know sort of 50 50 front half of your second.
Half a year or so a lot can change into Europe. We certainly are open to both potential means of returning capital.
Okay.
And.
Your description on Tonight, you know your outlook for modest premiums written growth of 2020.
Just contrasting that with you exited.
Q4, 19, with 17% year over year growth I think for your premiums written so you know what do you see some upside potentially in a in that guidance given the momentum currently what's your premiums written goes.
There's definitely some upside potential if the market is a more robust.
And what we're anticipating.
There are certainly a number of a potential headwinds out there as we highlighted in our prepared comments from an economic point of view. So I think when we take a stands on a on a sort of fairly conservative outlook from a base case point of view it translates into that modest growth, but I would say there's no question.
The market could do better and we could do better from a market share point of view. So there is absolutely upside potential to that.
But.
And my last question, if I could just the increase in your average reserve for delinquency is is that a reflection of the actual claims that your that you're seeing and paying out in.
Alberta, and appraises outwards sort of pushing that average or higher.
Yep great.
That is a factor, but I think the other factors remember its seasonality. We're encouraged not reported reserves increased in the fourth quarter, while there's no specific delinquency associated with it. So therefore it goes in.
The.
Denominator and therefore, it naturally it's where it goes in the numerator.
And without the denominator changes it hasn't natural seasonal impact on the on that adverse reserve for delinquencies. So it's really a combination of a higher proportion of claims and L. Britten the berries and also just the seasonal.
In fact, we incurred but not report reserve.
Got it but the one thing I would add to that have noticed when we get Tennessee.
Favorable reserve development. It it gives us good comfort that our reserving is adequate and we don't anticipate you know any adverse development of these reserves if anything there maybe a degree of what's.
Central for favorable development as we moved through the course of 2020.
What was the favorable reserve in the quarter.
In the quarter, just about 1 million, but for the full year. It was 19 million over the 2018 reserves.
Okay. That's it for me thank you.
Our next question comes from at Genie.
<unk> language and National Bank financial.
Yeah. Thank you first question just around the a the reserves or the average reserve for delinquency, how much would be the delta between the average Alberta property versus like in Ontario property for in it for example, just given the.
Yeah, the Robert House price appreciation in a in the Ontario market over the last several years I would think that you know delinquencies creeping up in Ontario, and Pacific would also have similar similarly high average reserves can you just comment on out a little bit.
That's certainly the average reserved for drilling seasonality in Alberta is gonna be just around.
$100000, while still feels the eye care delinquencies actually result from the claims the adverse reserve in Ontario is.
Pretty de Minimis, let's say 20000.
So quite a stark differences the thing to remember is the adverse reserve it obviously skewed to whereas in the largest number delinquencies come from that today.
With me the.
Alberta Prairie and Atlantic.
Okay. Thank you in terms of the a the girls and in portfolio insurance. The a the rate in this quarter is that a is that a representative ratable.
We should expect going forward.
Its sort of been bouncing around that sort of 30 to 50 basis points level, but oh, what do you expect looking ahead in terms of how about should evolve.
I think it will stay within that range. What we found is that you know with the higher levels of capital you know with implementation of the new capital framework a couple of years.
Just back the sweet spot for lenders for portfolio insurance tend to be loans with loan to values, 70% or lower 75% of 80% loan device carry much higher price, which makes it very difficult with a career mortgage spread. So we don't see that change is necessarily going forward. So we would expect the average premium.
Going to stay in that that band of 30 to 50, some lenders have a preference for 65, an under they'll take a closer to the bottom end some lenders have an appetite for 70 unlimited appetite for 75, an LTV.
Hey, thanks.
In terms of the a that the premiums growth that we're getting this quarter.
And given the fact that we're seeing some.
Lower interest rates in the market. The story from Osher that we talked about was I was around lobs, where those lapse rates are trending today and you know I guess, a combined not comment with the the girls and premiums there we're seeing this.
Quarter or last several quarters, and how that could impact premium recognition a timing.
Okay, I think lapse rates really impact the level of capital required left so the.
Marines pattern variance pattern is more how do we expect losses thinking.
March and what typically happens is the.
Or where is that a repaying their mortgage because they sold their property. We're not the board there were most likely to go to claim anyway. So we don't really see a direct correlation between those two in the short term.
What I would say if that's the lapse rates as it impacts capital we've seen a return to the level.
With that we saw in the.
Second half for 2018, the first half a 2019 lapse rates drop and on further no analysis. It seems like you know lapse rates are very tight to housing activity. If there's a higher level of housing activity because home prices are rising because the strong unemployment.
Mortgage rates are attractive more people that had insured mortgages may have sold their properties to trade up and on the trade up they may not necessarily have needed mortgage insurance, because we've seen a rebound of those laffer lapse rates were cautiously optimistic going into 2020, if we continue to see it demand for housing that are lapse.
Rates will begin to normalized for the level of 55.
I would say the second half of 2018.
Okay. Thanks in terms of the a the expense ratio ticking up a little bit this corner on a would seem to be somewhat driven by higher volumes, how much would be the higher volumes this quarter.
What about 17% premium growth drive a expenses higher Oh, I guess, maybe another way to Oscar.
How much from a a have a premiums written and would or would hit in the current quarter as opposed to being deferred.
Most of the impact to higher volumes it gets deferred because most of the increased.
Cost come as a form of either appraisals or create appear rose or premium taxes, we pay the provincial government. So I wouldn't say that you know higher blame has impacted the expense ratio what has impacted the expense ratio has certainly made some onetime expenses on and also with a strong share price performance share based compensation would.
It does impact of that but volume related or not so much.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Well take a follow up question from Tom Mackinnon with BMO capital.
Yeah, a one of the question since answered, but maybe just as a follow up for that.
The doesn't modest pickup in the expense ratio here.
You talked about onetime items and share based comp as your share based comp or kind of more of a seasonal.
Q4 thing fill or what was the a one time expense item that you referred to.
Well the share based comp really is.
Based on the other thing.
The stock price and therefore, you know with the right. We've seen the am I see stock price through the fourth quarter on that would certainly mean that any options or Rx views have a much higher value that flow through expenses in that quarter. As we did the transaction. We if there are also some due diligence expenses.
You know from more in the from or sports perspective. So we did have some one time consultant expenses that flow through the fourth quarter.
Okay. So the share based comp is Ah.
Ongoing throughout the year, but ticked up this does result in the stock price in the quarter and then in addition, you had some onetime consulting fees.
Yes.
Okay. Thanks.
Ladies and gentlemen, if there any additional questions at this time. Please press the star followed by the one as a reminder, if you're using a speaker phone keys stuff the handset before passing the keys well take our next question from tell Hardy with Scotiabank.
Hey, good morning.
Good morning, good morning, Phil.
Well, it's my questions me an answer that's why change gears briefly on governance I do see we'll see a brookfield you've got a re composition of the board I'm wondering can give us that just a quick reminder, in terms of what the balances now between Ah independent directors and not a along with a quick kind of walk through.
Somebody expertise and some of the new specialties, which yet which have joined me at the board.
Yeah. So I mean, I would start by saying there really hasn't been a change in terms of that balance you know, it's a public company board, you've still got fully independent directors myself and for a Brookfield and or co invest a representative and that the insurance company Board.
It's the same plus the additional two independent directors. So there hasn't really changed say as far skills matrix and an additional skills are concerned certainly.
You know the Brookfield represents have come out have upcoming with some experience in either insurance or the residential housing space and a I would say that has.
Band intentional to try and maintain that sort of skill set on alboher. So at this point not a lot of change other than just switch out the the Genworth representatives and.
You know, we feel pretty good about the board.
Okay. That's great that's it for me thinking.
Right well, thank you very much everybody that.
On flu shot Corfo today, Thank you for joining us and enjoy the rest of your day.
[laughter] that does conclude today's conference we thank you for your participation.
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