Q2 2020 Petroleo Brasileiro SA Petrobras Earnings Call
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Carla: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Petrobras webcast to analysts and investors about the Q2 2020 results. We'd like to inform you that all participants will follow the transmissions by internet as listeners. After introduction, a Q&A section will begin. You can send us questions by email at petroinveste@petrobras.com.br. Today we have with us Roberto Castello Branco, Petrobras CEO. Andrea Almeida, Chief Financial and Investor Relations Officer. Anelise Lara, Chief Refining and Natural Gas Officer. André Chiarini, Chief Logistics Officer. Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira, Chief Exploration and Production Officer. Marcelo Zenkner, Chief Governance and Compliance Officer. Nicolás Simone, Chief Digital Transformation and Innovation Officer. Roberto Ardenghy, Chief Institutional Relations Officer. Rudimar Lorenzatto, Chief Production Development Officer. The presentation will be available on our website. Today we will start by listening to Petrobras CEO, Roberto, with the main highlights of our results.
Carla Albano Miller: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Petrobras webcast to analysts and investors about the Q2 2020 results. We'd like to inform you that all participants will follow the transmissions by internet as listeners. After introduction, a Q&A section will begin. You can send us questions by email at petroinveste@petrobras.com.br. Today we have with us Roberto Castello Branco, Petrobras CEO. Andrea Almeida, Chief Financial and Investor Relations Officer. Anelise Lara, Chief Refining and Natural Gas Officer. André Chiarini, Chief Logistics Officer. Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira, Chief Exploration and Production Officer. Marcelo Zenkner, Chief Governance and Compliance Officer. Nicolás Simone, Chief Digital Transformation and Innovation Officer. Roberto Ardenghy, Chief Institutional Relations Officer. Rudimar Lorenzatto, Chief Production Development Officer. The presentation will be available on our website. Today we will start by listening to Petrobras CEO, Roberto, with the main highlights of our results.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, swell comes a better brands webcast, which analyst and investors about the second quarter 2020 results, we'd like to inform you that the all participants will follow the transmissions by Internet as listeners. After introduction acutely section will begin you can some discussions by E mail as Ben.
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Chief Financial Investor Relations Officer.
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Nicola Simone Chief digital transformation in innovation officer.
Excellent vein, Chief Institutional Relations officer, and could you Mike alluded lapses chief production development offices.
The presentation will be available on our web sites and today, we will start by lease and Thats a rights you. How baffle was the main highlights of our results. However, Please go ahead your goal.
Carla: Roberto, please go ahead.
Carla Albano Miller: Roberto, please go ahead.
Roberto Castello Branco: Thank you, Carla. It's a good day for everybody. It's a pleasure to talk to you. Well, the current crisis contains ingredients of important events of the last century. The Spanish flu in 1918 to 1920, and the Great Depression of 1929 to 1933. Of course, both medical and economic science are much better equipped to deal with this type of event. However, even with that, we had a powerful shock, powerful public health and economic shock, suffered by the world. Recessions typically affect more strongly investments and the manufacturing industry. This time it's different. We face a non-traditional recession as it has hit more severely consumption and service. Service include transportation service, which is the main channel of the shock on the oil industry.
Roberto Castello Branco: Thank you, Carla. It's a good day for everybody. It's a pleasure to talk to you. Well, the current crisis contains ingredients of important events of the last century. The Spanish flu in 1918 to 1920, and the Great Depression of 1929 to 1933. Of course, both medical and economic science are much better equipped to deal with this type of event. However, even with that, we had a powerful shock, powerful public health and economic shock, suffered by the world. Recessions typically affect more strongly investments and the manufacturing industry. This time it's different. We face a non-traditional recession as it has hit more severely consumption and service. Service include transportation service, which is the main channel of the shock on the oil industry.
Good day everybody.
Pleasure to both do well.
The good guys is growing things ingredients of.
Important events.
All of the last Fincher.
Spins flew in 1918 to 20, 1920, and the great depression or 29 too.
33.
Of course, both medical and Cologne scientists are much better equipped to do we disciples event.
However, even with that.
Yes, we had up boggles shock powerful public health economic shock.
Slumped rose by devote.
With deep recessions typically effect more strongly investments is given factory industry.
This time, it's it's different.
We face a nontraditional recession.
It is to have it has hit more security.
Consumption.
Incentives and serves include transportation service, which is the main changyou of the shock on the oil industry.
Roberto Castello Branco: Last quarter was one of the most challenging, if not the most, for the global economy and the oil industry. Particularly, April 2020 is a month to be always remembered in the history of our industry, given the unprecedented strength of demand contraction, price collapse, and a spike in maritime freight price. Cash is always king, but now it became God. Over the last few months, it was God to us. We are very happy to say that there was no cash burn. On the contrary, we managed to reduce net debt. Operational cash flow reached $5.5 billion, and free cash flow, $3.4 billion. Given our liquidity position, we are able to start the prepayment of the revolving credit lines withdrawn in last March. It's an important move.
Roberto Castello Branco: Last quarter was one of the most challenging, if not the most, for the global economy and the oil industry. Particularly, April 2020 is a month to be always remembered in the history of our industry, given the unprecedented strength of demand contraction, price collapse, and a spike in maritime freight price. Cash is always king, but now it became God. Over the last few months, it was God to us. We are very happy to say that there was no cash burn. On the contrary, we managed to reduce net debt. Operational cash flow reached $5.5 billion, and free cash flow, $3.4 billion. Given our liquidity position, we are able to start the prepayment of the revolving credit lines withdrawn in last March. It's an important move.
Last quarter was on the most challenged challenging if not the most afford the global economy in the oil industry, particularly APE grew to 80 to 80 is almost to be owes remember in the history of our industry given the unprecedented strain.
Of demand contraction price collapse and.
A spike in March timeframe price.
Cash is all scheme.
But now it became got over the last few months it was god to us.
We are very happy to to say that there was no cash burn on the contrary, we managed to reduce net debt operational cash flow recent 5.5 billion west dollars and free cash flow 3.4 billion less dollars.
Given our liquidity position, we are able to start the repayment of the revolving credit lines withdrawn in last March.
It's important move so it's going to it it's the restart abo de leveraging.
Roberto Castello Branco: It's the restart of our deleveraging process. It's a movement to cut costs, interest costs, to improve risk perception. By the end of the day, the lines will remain available. We have liquidity at our disposal. As in a war, the unprecedented scale and speed of the global pandemic compelled us to move swiftly. We are working hard, fast, and focused to be a winner. Our goal is to engineer a J-shaped recovery. We are acting not only to survive in the short term, but to promote the structural transformation in order to thrive and generate value over time. The world was moving fast, but now it's moving even faster. It's inspiring creativity and innovation, and requiring stronger resilience.
Roberto Castello Branco: It's the restart of our deleveraging process. It's a movement to cut costs, interest costs, to improve risk perception. By the end of the day, the lines will remain available. We have liquidity at our disposal. As in a war, the unprecedented scale and speed of the global pandemic compelled us to move swiftly. We are working hard, fast, and focused to be a winner. Our goal is to engineer a J-shaped recovery. We are acting not only to survive in the short term, but to promote the structural transformation in order to thrive and generate value over time. The world was moving fast, but now it's moving even faster. It's inspiring creativity and innovation, and requiring stronger resilience.
Process. It we did some movement to cut costs in those costs to improve with perception and by the end of the Dave.
The lines will remain available so we have liquidity our auto disposal.
As an in a war.
He said that scale and the speed of the global pandemic compelled us to move swiftly we are working hard fast and focus is to be a winner.
Our goal is to engineer Ajay shape recovery, we are our team not only to survive in the short term, but but.
Promote the structural transformation in order to.
To drive and generate value.
Over time the awards is moving fast was moving fast, but now it's moving even faster is inspiring creativity and innovation is requiring is stronger release resiliency.
Roberto Castello Branco: We see the crisis as an inflection point from which we must accelerate the execution of our strategy to allow Petrobras to turn the page of a long history of value destruction. We had more than 10,000 employees enlisting for the voluntary dismissal program. Up to 2,900 already left the company. 5,000 people will leave the company between August and December this year, and the remaining 2,300 will leave next year. In addition to that, 25% of the managerial positions were eliminated. We estimate the total savings can reach up to $1 billion per year. The company is carrying out several other initiatives to diminish costs and to boost efficiency gains. Administrative buildings, which are now 17, will be reduced to 8 till Q1 next year.
Roberto Castello Branco: We see the crisis as an inflection point from which we must accelerate the execution of our strategy to allow Petrobras to turn the page of a long history of value destruction. We had more than 10,000 employees enlisting for the voluntary dismissal program. Up to 2,900 already left the company. 5,000 people will leave the company between August and December this year, and the remaining 2,300 will leave next year. In addition to that, 25% of the managerial positions were eliminated. We estimate the total savings can reach up to $1 billion per year. The company is carrying out several other initiatives to diminish costs and to boost efficiency gains. Administrative buildings, which are now 17, will be reduced to 8 till Q1 next year.
We see the crisis as an inflection point for which we must accelerate the execution of our strategy to allow Petrobras to turn the page of our long history of value destruction.
We had more than 10 thousands of employees in listing for the voluntary disease show program.
Up to.
2900 already left the company a 5000 people we leave the company between August and December this year and the remaining 2300 leave next year. In addition to that 25% of demand as yours.
Managerial positions were eliminated.
Estimated total savings can reach up to $1 billion per year.
The company's carry out several other initiatives.
Diminished costs and to boost efficiency gains administrative duties, which are now seven gene.
We will be reduced to eight.
Q the first quarter of next year, there is a sharp reduction in the number of X spot rates walking our to offs outside Brazil. Several in efficiencies, we're already eliminated in the logistics business and now our focus there is on the optimization.
Roberto Castello Branco: There is a sharp reduction in the number of expatriates working out of offices outside Brazil. Several inefficiencies were already eliminated in the logistics business, and now our focus there is on the optimization of inventories and the number of warehouses. Our wholly-owned subsidiary, Transpetro, is also embarking on a program to slash costs and inefficiencies and to pursue a dramatic improvement in service quality. Digital transformation is key to our future as an agile and efficient company. It's running at a fast pace in several corporate and business areas. Projects are addressing costs, efficiency, greenhouse gas emissions, and operational safety. In order to support artificial intelligence, our high power computing capacity was multiplied by seven times in relation to what we have by the end of 2018.
Roberto Castello Branco: There is a sharp reduction in the number of expatriates working out of offices outside Brazil. Several inefficiencies were already eliminated in the logistics business, and now our focus there is on the optimization of inventories and the number of warehouses. Our wholly-owned subsidiary, Transpetro, is also embarking on a program to slash costs and inefficiencies and to pursue a dramatic improvement in service quality. Digital transformation is key to our future as an agile and efficient company. It's running at a fast pace in several corporate and business areas. Projects are addressing costs, efficiency, greenhouse gas emissions, and operational safety. In order to support artificial intelligence, our high power computing capacity was multiplied by seven times in relation to what we have by the end of 2018.
One of inventories and the number of warehouse our wholly owned subsidiary Trust Battle is also embarking in program to slash costs.
In efficiencies and to boost to address masking increase improvement in seven in service quality.
Digital transformation is key to a few through as a Nigel.
And.
Efficient company.
It's running at fast space is several corporate and business areas projects are addressing addressing cost efficiency.
Greenhouse gas emissions and.
Operation strategy in order to.
Support.
Fisher intelligence, our high power computing capacity was multiplied by seven times relations. What we have by the end of two MG 18, or me innovation projects dedicated to lower breakeven price in the the MP business are moving.
Roberto Castello Branco: Our main innovation projects dedicated to lower break-even price in the E&P business are moving ahead. We have several EXP 100, PROD 1000, HiSep is a very important project, PEPSEP 70. Recently, as we mentioned in our report, the 213 Ultra Tender technology proved to be successful, reducing by 50% the cost of drilling and completing a well in the pre-salt. We took steps to order 3 new FPSOs, the first order of Petrobras in eight years. They will operate in the second stage of Buzios, and one of them, the Almirante Tamandaré, will have a capacity to process 225,000 barrels per day to be the largest oil platform in the Brazilian seas and one of the largest in the world.
Roberto Castello Branco: Our main innovation projects dedicated to lower break-even price in the E&P business are moving ahead. We have several EXP 100, PROD 1000, HiSep is a very important project, PEPSEP 70. Recently, as we mentioned in our report, the 213 Ultra Tender technology proved to be successful, reducing by 50% the cost of drilling and completing a well in the pre-salt. We took steps to order 3 new FPSOs, the first order of Petrobras in eight years. They will operate in the second stage of Buzios, and one of them, the Almirante Tamandaré, will have a capacity to process 225,000 barrels per day to be the largest oil platform in the Brazilian seas and one of the largest in the world.
Had we have several then.
X 100 brought 1000, Hi, Sep is a very important progress as Pat said 70.
Recently as we mentioned in our report we have bottles that to one trip odorous lender technology prove it to be successful reducing by 50% the cost of drilling and completing a well in the both solved.
We took steps to order three new best Yours.
The first order of Petrobras in eight years, they will operate in the second.
Stage of boost as one of then.
The Admiral Tomorrow.
We have a cup bus to prop process.
225000 barrels per day to beat the largest oil platform in the Brazilian Ses and one of the largest in the world. Our divestment program is well under alive. Despite all the difficulties.
Roberto Castello Branco: Our investment program is well and alive despite all the difficulties arising from the current global recession. In the year, it generated revenues, cash revenues of almost $1 billion. The sale of the RLAM, the Bahia Refinery is on track, and we expect to reach a final deal to sign a sales and purchase agreement in the near future, perhaps even during this quarter. We still face tremendous challenges in our journey to sustainable value creation. There was some improvement in the macro scenario. The world economy seems to be reacting to the massive injection of cash by monetary and fiscal authorities, about $15 trillion. Demand for fuels improved. It allowed us to optimize the operation of the refineries.
Roberto Castello Branco: Our investment program is well and alive despite all the difficulties arising from the current global recession. In the year, it generated revenues, cash revenues of almost $1 billion. The sale of the RLAM, the Bahia Refinery is on track, and we expect to reach a final deal to sign a sales and purchase agreement in the near future, perhaps even during this quarter. We still face tremendous challenges in our journey to sustainable value creation. There was some improvement in the macro scenario. The world economy seems to be reacting to the massive injection of cash by monetary and fiscal authorities, about $15 trillion. Demand for fuels improved. It allowed us to optimize the operation of the refineries.
Arising from the current global recession in the year. It regenerated revenues cash revenues of almost $1 billion the sale of the re alone.
By year refinery is moving is on track.
And we expect to reach a final due to to sign a saizen purchase agreement.
In.
The year future perhaps.
Even during this you Scotland.
We still face tremendous challenges in our journey to sustainable value creation. There was some improvement in the macro scenario.
The all the economy seems to be reacting to the massive injection of cash by monetary and fiscal towards about 15 trillion west dollars.
Demand for Fools.
Improve it.
It allowed us to.
To optimize the operation of the their refineries, but.
Roberto Castello Branco: We have to be very cautious because this uncertainty, it still remains. It's very risky to make projections for the near future. We are pretty sure that higher price will not bail us out. We must rely on our own efforts, and we are doing our best to become a much better company, to reduce on a structural way our costs, to increase productivity growth, and to deliver value to shareholders. As I said, Petrobras, at Petrobras, there is no room for pessimism. We strongly believe that with courage, moderate optimism, and hard work, we will win. We are engineering a J-shaped recovery and aiming to end much better than in the pre-COVID-19 period. Thank you. I pass now to Carlos Alberto de Oliveira to conduct the meeting.
We have to be very cautious because it's the uncertainty is still remains.
Roberto Castello Branco: We have to be very cautious because this uncertainty, it still remains. It's very risky to make projections for the near future. We are pretty sure that higher price will not bail us out. We must rely on our own efforts, and we are doing our best to become a much better company, to reduce on a structural way our costs, to increase productivity growth, and to deliver value to shareholders. As I said, Petrobras, at Petrobras, there is no room for pessimism. We strongly believe that with courage, moderate optimism, and hard work, we will win. We are engineering a J-shaped recovery and aiming to end much better than in the pre-COVID-19 period. Thank you. I pass now to Carlos Alberto de Oliveira to conduct the meeting.
Well, it's very risky to make projections for the near future.
We are pretty sure that higher price will not be us out.
Who we must rely on our own efforts and we are doing our best to become a much better company to reduce on a structural way our costs too.
Increase productivity growth and too.
The liver.
Well you too to shareholders.
As I said Petrobras at Petrobras There is no room for fasteners, we strongly believe that with coverage moderate optimism and hard work will we will win we aim to we are engineering, Jay shape recovery and.
Aiming to and much better than in the brief coffees 19 period. Thank you best now to color Obono.
To conduct the meeting.
Thank you have after we will now begin our M&A Sachin and the first question came from Frank Mcgann with Bank of America Merrill Lynch and the first question for capital capital could you provide a bit more definition about expectations for output in the second half of 22.
Carla: Thank you, Roberto. We'll now begin our Q&A session. The first question came from Frank McGann with Bank of America Merrill Lynch, and the first question is for Capu. Capu, could you provide a bit more definition about expectations for output in H2 2020, and the timing and scale of maintenance? How could this affect overall operating efficiency and unit costs?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Roberto. We'll now begin our Q&A session. The first question came from Frank McGann with Bank of America Merrill Lynch, and the first question is for Capu. Capu, could you provide a bit more definition about expectations for output in H2 2020, and the timing and scale of maintenance? How could this affect overall operating efficiency and unit costs?
And the timing and scale of maintenance how could this effect overall operating efficiency any unit costs.
Hello, Frank Thank you for those questions.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: Hello, Frank. Thank you for those questions. Well, the expectations are that we will have less production in the H2 than the production that we have been having so far, as we postponed the large stoppages that we were to do in the H1, and now they are in the H2 of the year. Those stoppages will happen from September to November this year. Regarding the timing and scale, it will be around 8 stoppages of 15 days. They are big, more or less, big stoppages.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: Hello, Frank. Thank you for those questions. Well, the expectations are that we will have less production in the H2 than the production that we have been having so far, as we postponed the large stoppages that we were to do in the H1, and now they are in the H2 of the year. Those stoppages will happen from September to November this year. Regarding the timing and scale, it will be around 8 stoppages of 15 days. They are big, more or less, big stoppages.
Well the spectators out there who will have less production on the second half.
So that we have we're having so far.
As we postponed underline stockpiles have who who worked through at the first semester and now they are in the second half of the.
And.
Gross profit.
We'll have panel from September to November is here.
The presided over time will scale will be around AIDS offerings of 15 day.
Things more or less.
Softened, but one important thing national here that we have already done some activities.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: One important thing to mention here is that we have already done some activities related to those stoppages, because as we had some interruptions on the production of those platforms, so we took the advantages of those interruptions, and then we made some activities. Today, 30 to 40% of the activities that we have predicted to do during those stoppages, the big stoppages, we have already done there on the Búzios and the other pre-salt platforms. Also, this explains the good performance that we had so far.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: One important thing to mention here is that we have already done some activities related to those stoppages, because as we had some interruptions on the production of those platforms, so we took the advantages of those interruptions, and then we made some activities. Today, 30 to 40% of the activities that we have predicted to do during those stoppages, the big stoppages, we have already done there on the Búzios and the other pre-salt platforms. Also, this explains the good performance that we had so far.
And for those staff as because as we have some interruptions on the production of those PEPFAR. So.
So the adventures of Nols.
Options and then we made some activities and so as to their 30% to 40% off.
Activity that we have victorville viewing the those tough and for this purpose we have already done there on the Basel sell the order for yourself platform.
Also this explains the good performance that we have so far so in terms of lengthening definitely have funding for this year.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: In terms of maintenance that we are predicting for this year, we think that the output for H2, as I mentioned, will be lower, but due to the fact that we are going to do the maintenance, the stoppage, the big stoppage at H2 now.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: In terms of maintenance that we are predicting for this year, we think that the output for H2, as I mentioned, will be lower, but due to the fact that we are going to do the maintenance, the stoppage, the big stoppage at H2 now.
We think that output for the second half of the national will be lower but just in the fact that we're going to do the lengthens the staff of will be suffers after the second half.
Thank you pass on the second fashion from Frank has to come back any indications as to how the currently you off the coast fire could lead to adjustments in the company strategy.
Carla: Thank you, Capu. The second question from Frank is to Roberto. Any indications as to how the current review of the portfolio could lead to adjustments in the company strategy?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Capu. The second question from Frank is to Roberto. Any indications as to how the current review of the portfolio could lead to adjustments in the company strategy?
Thank you for your question Frank.
Roberto Castello Branco: Well, thank you for your question, Frank. Well, there will be no change in our strategy. The strategy remains intact. What we are doing is to enhance our criteria of project evaluation. We established as the baseline price for project evaluation $35 per barrel of oil. For instance, Búzios, we announced the order to build 3 new FPSOs. Before that, we estimated the break-even price. All of them in the 3 areas of Búzios, they are below $35 per barrel. They were approved, and we are taking steps to start the development.
Roberto Castello Branco: Well, thank you for your question, Frank. Well, there will be no change in our strategy. The strategy remains intact. What we are doing is to enhance our criteria of project evaluation. We established as the baseline price for project evaluation $35 per barrel of oil. For instance, Búzios, we announced the order to build 3 new FPSOs. Before that, we estimated the break-even price. All of them in the 3 areas of Búzios, they are below $35 per barrel. They were approved, and we are taking steps to start the development.
Well there is there'll be no change in our strategy.
Our strategy remains intact.
What we are doing is too.
Enhance our criteria of project evaluation.
We established as.
The base from baseline price for project evaluation to a $5 per barrel of oil.
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Good.
For instance, booze.
We announced that the the order to view three new.
Vessels and before that.
We estimated the.
The breakeven price.
All of them in the three areas of Boozers.
They are below $35.
Barrow so they were they were approval and we are taking steps to start the development.
Roberto Castello Branco: What can change is some projects that are not as good being canceled or to be redimensioned, but there will be no change in our strategy. The five base pillars continue intact. We are just accelerating their implementation.
Roberto Castello Branco: What can change is some projects that are not as good being canceled or to be redimensioned, but there will be no change in our strategy. The five base pillars continue intact. We are just accelerating their implementation.
What can change is some projects that are not as good.
Be cancelled or to be.
Read I mentioned, but there'll be no change in our strategy.
The five based pillows continue.
The intact and they are is we are just accelerating.
Their implementation.
Thank you have Aston our next question comes from Christian Audi with something that any far annually.
Carla: Thank you, Roberto. Our next question comes from Christian Audi with Santander, and it's for Anelise. Could you give us some color on how we were seeing demand for oil exports, especially in Asia and Europe? Has the demand from China remained stable over the past weeks?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Roberto. Our next question comes from Christian Audi with Santander, and it's for Anelise. Could you give us some color on how we were seeing demand for oil exports, especially in Asia and Europe? Has the demand from China remained stable over the past weeks?
Could you give us some color on how we were seeing demand for oil exports.
Especially in Asia, and Europe has the demand from China remains stable over the past weeks.
Okay.
Anelise Lara: Hi, Christian. Well, what we've seen is that after Western demand has collapsed for crude oil and oil products during the part of Q2, we are seeing demand recovering for all Petrobras crude oil exports market, including Asia and Europe. You're right, over the past few weeks, China's market has suffered from impact from floods in the south of the country during July, affecting demand, but we believe temporarily, and in general, it has experienced a consistent demand for crude oil exports from Petrobras. Our low sulfur crude oil is very well accepted worldwide.
Anelise Lara: Hi, Christian. Well, what we've seen is that after Western demand has collapsed for crude oil and oil products during the part of Q2, we are seeing demand recovering for all Petrobras crude oil exports market, including Asia and Europe. You're right, over the past few weeks, China's market has suffered from impact from floods in the south of the country during July, affecting demand, but we believe temporarily, and in general, it has experienced a consistent demand for crude oil exports from Petrobras. Our low sulfur crude oil is very well accepted worldwide.
Hi, Keith can.
Well.
All active scene is that after let's say demand has collapsed for crude oil in audio products. During the part of the second quarter. We are seeing demand recovery for all Petrobras could the higher exports market, including Asia anyway.
You're right over the past few weeks Chinese market has suffered from impact from fruits in the south of the currently during July affecting demand that we believe temporarily any general it has experienced consistent consistent demand for crude oil spot.
Non Petrobras.
Our low sulfur crude oil is that well accepted.
Correct.
Thank you and the second question from accretion is about R&D investment plan is for how that could you. Please share with us the latest developments regarding to say off refineries more specifically has there been significant interest for our refineries.
Carla: Thank you, Anelise. The second question from Christian is about our divestment plan. It's for Roberto. Could you please share with us the latest developments regarding the sale of refineries? More specifically, has there been significant interest for all refineries at the price levels that you are aiming to sell them for?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Anelise. The second question from Christian is about our divestment plan. It's for Roberto. Could you please share with us the latest developments regarding the sale of refineries? More specifically, has there been significant interest for all refineries at the price levels that you are aiming to sell them for?
At the price levels that you are aiming to sell them for.
Well.
Roberto Castello Branco: Well, we didn't see any manifestation of no interest, of lack of interest for our refineries. Of course, It's not running at the original pace that we planned, as naturally, due to the global recession, the scenario changed, and some of the potential buyers asked for some time in order to get approval, new approvals from the board of directors. Others to restructure the arrangements with their financiers. As we see today, there was no change, and interest is alive. We expect to conclude the signing of the sales and purchase agreement for RLAM in the next couple of months. We are confident that till the end of 2021, we'll have the closings of all refineries for sale.
Roberto Castello Branco: Well, we didn't see any manifestation of no interest, of lack of interest for our refineries. Of course, It's not running at the original pace that we planned, as naturally, due to the global recession, the scenario changed, and some of the potential buyers asked for some time in order to get approval, new approvals from the board of directors. Others to restructure the arrangements with their financiers. As we see today, there was no change, and interest is alive. We expect to conclude the signing of the sales and purchase agreement for RLAM in the next couple of months. We are confident that till the end of 2021, we'll have the closings of all refineries for sale.
See any manifestation of no interest of lack of interest for our refiners of course.
The.
It's not really are the.
Regional base there to replenish.
Yes.
Naturally due to the global recession.
The scenario changes and some of the potential buyers arscott for some time in order to get approval new approvals from the board of directors orders to.
Restructured the arrangements with the finance years.
But.
We.
As we see today there was no change and interest is alive. We expect to conclude this say the signing of the sales and purchase agreement.
For.
Really long in the next couple of months and.
We are confident that.
Do they kind of 22 inch one.
We'll have the closings of all refineries for sales.
Thank you heard back from our next question comes from the sanction Falanga Red Escondida and its foreign and leasing has the process of units, citing the offshore guess topline terrorists is the company ready to IPO. These assets already in the SEC.
Carla: Thank you, Roberto. Our next question comes from Vicente Falanga with Bradesco BBI, and it's for Anelise. How's the process of unitizing the offshore gas pipeline tariffs? Is the company ready to IPO these assets already in the H2 2020?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Roberto. Our next question comes from Vicente Falanga with Bradesco BBI, and it's for Anelise. How's the process of unitizing the offshore gas pipeline tariffs? Is the company ready to IPO these assets already in the H2 2020?
Half of training.
Anelise Lara: Well, this offshore gas pipeline, as you know, is an integrated system, and it belongs to Petrobras and some pre-salt partners like Shell, Repsol, and Galp, Petrogal. We are finalizing the document that consists of this integration system, the package of this integration system, to be able to create this new company that will be dedicated to operate and build new offshore gas pipelines. We are, as I said, at the end of these negotiations with partners. We believe that by the end of this Q3, we'll be ready to sign the documents. The next step will be to create this company. I believe that IPO of this company will stay for 2021, okay?
Anelise Lara: Well, this offshore gas pipeline, as you know, is an integrated system, and it belongs to Petrobras and some pre-salt partners like Shell, Repsol, and Galp, Petrogal. We are finalizing the document that consists of this integration system, the package of this integration system, to be able to create this new company that will be dedicated to operate and build new offshore gas pipelines. We are, as I said, at the end of these negotiations with partners. We believe that by the end of this Q3, we'll be ready to sign the documents. The next step will be to create this company. I believe that IPO of this company will stay for 2021, okay?
Well.
Yes.
And our.
Pipeline offshore gas pipelines as you know is on integrated system and it belongs to Petrobras untapped some pre salt partners like a shale and direct so in Gal. It took out and we are finalizing the document.
Dan.
Consist of the east integration and system the package of integration system to be able to create these new company debt.
He.
I will be dedicated to to operate and deal Neil offshore gas pipeline.
So.
Yes, I said that.
In there and of these negotiations these partners, we believe that and by the end of December quarter, we'll be ready to sign the document and Dan. The next step to be to create these and its company I believe that IPO of this company.
No we will stay for 2021, okay.
Thank you and I believe there's one more quick question for you as well from the same chip. So the discounts of branch was quite elastic this quarter around $5 per barrel should we expect visit to return to more normalized levels in the third quarter of 2020 closer to one.
Carla: Thank you, Anelise. There's one more question for you as well from Vicente. The discount to Brent was quite elastic this quarter, around $5 per barrel. Should we expect this to return to more normalized levels in Q3 2020, closer to $1 per barrel?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Anelise. There's one more question for you as well from Vicente. The discount to Brent was quite elastic this quarter, around $5 per barrel. Should we expect this to return to more normalized levels in Q3 2020, closer to $1 per barrel?
Dollar per barrel.
Yes, no write a discount and discounts to brand to date it lead leeches the reference today spot market has increased.
Anelise Lara: Yes, Bruno, you're right. Discounts to Dated Brent, which is the reference to the spot market, has increased due to the demand collapse during part of Q2 when only Chinese refineries were purchasing crude actively. For the moment, the buyer's market recovered in the other destinations. The discounts were significantly reduced, switching to premium. On the other hand, what we saw in this quarter is that the shipping rates, the freight rates, were very high at the beginning, especially in April, mid-May. Now they are back to normal levels, around $2.5 to 3 per barrel from Brazil to China.
Anelise Lara: Yes, Bruno, you're right. Discounts to Dated Brent, which is the reference to the spot market, has increased due to the demand collapse during part of Q2 when only Chinese refineries were purchasing crude actively. For the moment, the buyer's market recovered in the other destinations. The discounts were significantly reduced, switching to premium. On the other hand, what we saw in this quarter is that the shipping rates, the freight rates, were very high at the beginning, especially in April, mid-May. Now they are back to normal levels, around $2.5 to 3 per barrel from Brazil to China.
Q2, the demand collapse during the back off your second question.
Land only Chinese refineries were per chase, including TV.
For the moment the buyer markets recovered in data destinations discount square significantly reducing reduced switching to premium.
On the other hands watley scientists in this quarter is that day shipping rates. The freight rates were very high at the beginning especially in April and meet Nate that now they're back to normal levels around 2.5.
To tweak bolivar per barrel from Brazil to China.
It's important to add that our crude oil is traded at a premium to Brent smarter to discount to Brent given the the consolidation of its brand name in China.
Roberto Castello Branco: It's important to add that, our crude oil is traded at a premium to Brent. It's not at a discount to Brent, given the consolidation of its brand name in China, the preference of several Chinese private sector refineries.
Roberto Castello Branco: It's important to add that, our crude oil is traded at a premium to Brent. It's not at a discount to Brent, given the consolidation of its brand name in China, the preference of several Chinese private sector refineries.
The preference of.
Sandro Chinese private sector refineries.
Yes.
Thank you Annalys. Thank you have asked in the next question comes from hedges capital expenditure three cents foreign dryer.
Carla: Thank you, Anelise. Thank you, Roberto. The next question comes from Regis Cardoso with Credit Suisse, and it's for Andrea. It's regarding PIS/COFINS's tax credit. Given the substantial gain on tax credit in Q2 2020, about BRL 17 billion, what should we expect in terms of use of this credit? Does the presence on the current assets imply realizations within the next two quarters of the year?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Anelise. Thank you, Roberto. The next question comes from Regis Cardoso with Credit Suisse, and it's for Andrea. It's regarding PIS/COFINS's tax credit. Given the substantial gain on tax credit in Q2 2020, about BRL 17 billion, what should we expect in terms of use of this credit? Does the presence on the current assets imply realizations within the next two quarters of the year?
It's regarding discussing tax credit so given the substantial gain and tax credits in second quarter 20 training about 17 million hash what should we expect in terms of use of this credits.
The presence on the current assets equalizing realizations within the next acquired after disease.
Okay. Thank you for your question.
Andrea Almeida: Regis, thank you for your question. Actually, there is a process that we have to pass through. It's a habilitation process, so that we can start using those credits. This habilitation process can take up to 90 days. We expect that we will be using these credits for the next up to 24 months. It will be hard to use everything this year. We believe it's going to be up to 24 months. It will depend on how long it takes for us to be able to use the credit or this process that we have to pass. That's it.
Andrea Almeida: Regis, thank you for your question. Actually, there is a process that we have to pass through. It's a habilitation process, so that we can start using those credits. This habilitation process can take up to 90 days. We expect that we will be using these credits for the next up to 24 months. It will be hard to use everything this year. We believe it's going to be up to 24 months. It will depend on how long it takes for us to be able to use the credit or this process that we have to pass. That's it.
Actually there is a protest add that we have to pass through Anthony application process. So as we can start using those credits.
It application process can take up to 90 days. So we expect that we will be using this credit.
For the next up to 24 months so.
It'll be hard to use everything this year. So we believe it's going to be up to 24 months. It will depend on how long it takes for us to be.
Well to use the credit toward this process that we have to test.
But that that's it.
Thanks, Ron today and the next question comes from Lilyanna, Yang with HSBC and it's far on anything.
Carla: Thank you, Andrea. The next question comes from Liliana Yang with HSBC, and it's for Anelise. Anelise, Petrobras is working towards divestments in the gas midstream and downstream and bringing on more competition to the gas sector. Would you please comment on the positives and key challenges on the proposed gas law, which has been under discussion in the Congress for the past few years but has not yet been approved? Thank you.
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Andrea. The next question comes from Liliana Yang with HSBC, and it's for Anelise. Anelise, Petrobras is working towards divestments in the gas midstream and downstream and bringing on more competition to the gas sector. Would you please comment on the positives and key challenges on the proposed gas law, which has been under discussion in the Congress for the past few years but has not yet been approved? Thank you.
Finally, the terms I was working towards divestments into gas midstream and downstream and bringing on more competition for the gas sector.
Would you please comment on the positive in key challenges on the propose gaslog, which has been under discussion the Congress for the past few years, but has not yet yes, absolutely. Thank you.
I will comment on that can damage faster for that and to add also his comments and we we are supporting the is.
Anelise Lara: I will comment on that, and then I'll pass to Roberto to add also his comments. We are supporting this new gas law. We think that it's the possible arrangement that we could have here in Brazil regarding all the stakeholders. I'm talking about gas producers, gas transportation companies, distribution companies, and commercialization companies. When you see all these different players, this new gas law has lots of advantages because it addresses the main issues related to the opening of the market.
Anelise Lara: I will comment on that, and then I'll pass to Roberto to add also his comments. We are supporting this new gas law. We think that it's the possible arrangement that we could have here in Brazil regarding all the stakeholders. I'm talking about gas producers, gas transportation companies, distribution companies, and commercialization companies. When you see all these different players, this new gas law has lots of advantages because it addresses the main issues related to the opening of the market.
Yes.
Yes.
You get lost we think that each day and.
It's possible arrangement that.
We could have here in Brazil regarding all the stakeholders I'm talking about gas producers gas and transport transportation companies distribution companies and commercialization companies. So in the industry that is.
Gary Luquette said in the and in the reduction of the gas price in the country. So.
When you see all these different.
Players.
The these new Gaslog has a lot luxoft advantages because it addresses their main issues and related the opening of the market.
Anelise Lara: How we are going to give authorization for new gas pipelines transportation, how we'll have the free consumers, the industry will have some rights to get the gas directed from the market instead of having to pay the distribution taxes, integrated distribution taxes. All these aspects will be important to make sure that the new market, new gas market in Brazil, will be open and could be a competitive and dynamic one. By doing that, we expected also that a price reduction in the gas market as a whole. Roberto, if you want to comment.
Anelise Lara: How we are going to give authorization for new gas pipelines transportation, how we'll have the free consumers, the industry will have some rights to get the gas directed from the market instead of having to pay the distribution taxes, integrated distribution taxes. All these aspects will be important to make sure that the new market, new gas market in Brazil, will be open and could be a competitive and dynamic one. By doing that, we expected also that a price reduction in the gas market as a whole. Roberto, if you want to comment.
And how we are going to give outer indication for Neal gas pipeline transportation, how we'll have they asked a free consumers and the industry will have some right to to get to gas directed from.
From a and they Mcafee standoff.
Having to pay and the distribution taxes and integrated distribution taxes.
Oh this aspect will be important.
So to make sure that today, new marketing new gas lack the in Brazil, and will be open and could be any.
Competitive and dynamic what.
And by doing that we expected also better.
Price reduction and into gas market as I hope.
But how bad it wants to do.
Roberto Castello Branco: Well, I do agree with you, Anelise. I think that Brazil badly needs structural reforms, and this is one of the important reforms that's being launched. Competition, open competition will benefit consumers, producers, and the Brazilian economy. We need to attract investments. It's what we want, is competition. We are performing our role as we open room for other parties to transport gas in the gas pipelines. We sold TAG 100%. We are selling the remainder, the remaining 10% of NTS. We are trying to sell TBG. Unfortunately, the regulatory agency does not allow a more significant reduction in the price of transportation as we see. This creates a cloud of uncertainty about the asset.
Roberto Castello Branco: Well, I do agree with you, Anelise. I think that Brazil badly needs structural reforms, and this is one of the important reforms that's being launched. Competition, open competition will benefit consumers, producers, and the Brazilian economy. We need to attract investments. It's what we want, is competition. We are performing our role as we open room for other parties to transport gas in the gas pipelines. We sold TAG 100%. We are selling the remainder, the remaining 10% of NTS. We are trying to sell TBG. Unfortunately, the regulatory agency does not allow a more significant reduction in the price of transportation as we see. This creates a cloud of uncertainty about the asset.
Do you any lease I think that Brazil badly needs.
Structural reforms at least one one of the important reforms that the launches.
Competition open competition will benefit.
Our consumers producers and the Brazilian economy, we to attract investments. It's what you want is competition.
We are performing our role.
Yes.
You open room for Q4.
All the parties in the two trust fourth gas in the gas pipelines we sold.
The 100%, we are selling who remain the remaining 10% of.
Of NTS, we are.
Trying to sell GBG. Unfortunately.
The regulatory agency.
Does not allow.
More significant reduction in the price of transportation.
As we see and this creates.
Cloud of uncertainty.
About the assets.
Roberto Castello Branco: We expect this to be solved. I expect that the regulatory agency understands the importance of this reform, the importance of Brazilians to have a gas at lower price, eliminating distortions that existed for a long time in the Brazilian market. We are very positive of that, about that.
Roberto Castello Branco: We expect this to be solved. I expect that the regulatory agency understands the importance of this reform, the importance of Brazilians to have a gas at lower price, eliminating distortions that existed for a long time in the Brazilian market. We are very positive of that, about that.
We expect these to be solved aspect that the regulatory agency understands the importance of this reform the importance of resilience to have.
Gas.
Lower price eliminating distortions that existed.
For a long time.
In the Brazilian market, we are very positive of the about that.
Equally.
Sorry for that thank you how best to think on an easing. The next question comes from chat with last year with BTG Pactual.
Carla: Sorry for that. Thank you, Roberto. Thank you, Anelise. The next question comes from Thiago Duarte with BTG Pactual. It's for Andrea. Andrea, considering the improvement in oil prices in the last 60 days, and considering the current futures curve, as well as the potential of cash generation, when the company believes it will be possible to reach the gross debt target level of $60 billion.
Carla Albano Miller: Sorry for that. Thank you, Roberto. Thank you, Anelise. The next question comes from Thiago Duarte with BTG Pactual. It's for Andrea. Andrea, considering the improvement in oil prices in the last 60 days, and considering the current futures curve, as well as the potential of cash generation, when the company believes it will be possible to reach the gross debt target level of $60 billion.
As far as Ryan So Andre considering the improvement in higher prices in the last six today and considering the current future corrupt as well as the potential of cash generation when the company believes to be possible to reach the graph that target level of $60 million.
Well. Thank you very much for your question Hi, it's hard to say because we still see a lot of volatility in the market, even though we know add their various at least that we see ran out Brent prices around 40, so definitely better.
Andrea Almeida: Thiago, thank you very much for your question. It's hard to say because we still see a lot of volatility in the market. Even though we know there is, at least we see right now, the Brent price is around 40. So definitely better than what we see in the last months. It's hard. We still need to finish the review of our portfolio. What I can tell you is that it's going to be very hard to be in 2021 as we expected before. So we are working towards trying to make it in 2022, but it still will depend on the revision of the portfolio.
Andrea Almeida: Thiago, thank you very much for your question. It's hard to say because we still see a lot of volatility in the market. Even though we know there is, at least we see right now, the Brent price is around 40. So definitely better than what we see in the last months. It's hard. We still need to finish the review of our portfolio. What I can tell you is that it's going to be very hard to be in 2021 as we expected before. So we are working towards trying to make it in 2022, but it still will depend on the revision of the portfolio.
What we see.
Last month, but it's hard and we still need to finish the review of our portfolio. What I can tell you is that is going to be very hard to be in 2021, as we expected before.
So we are working at toward sat trying to make it tab in 2022, but.
Economic Panhandle revision of the portfolio.
Thank you Andrea.
Carla: Thank you, Andrea. The next question is from Thiago. It's for Roberto. Once the price and demand scenarios improves, does the resilient plan lose effect? Should we imagine that part of the cost and investment postpones could be resumed?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Andrea. The next question is from Thiago. It's for Roberto. Once the price and demand scenarios improves, does the resilient plan lose effect? Should we imagine that part of the cost and investment postpones could be resumed?
The next question from Chad was for her baffle once the price and demand scenarios improves the resilient plan lose effect should we imagine that parts of the costs and investment postpones could be review.
Well there is a traditional.
Roberto Castello Branco: Well, there is a traditional creeps cycle. When there is a recession, a crisis, companies respond to the crisis. There is improvement, and the latter stage there will be complacency. We are not addressing the short term only. We are addressing the long term. Our goal is to reduce our cost structures on a permanent basis. So we are focused on that. For instance, even the voluntary dismissal program, its effects will be felt much more next year and further on, not this year. This year, on the contrary, we are making provisions to pay the severance, to make the severance payment to the and the incentives to the employees that are leaving us. Many other initiatives are addressing significant gains over time.
Roberto Castello Branco: Well, there is a traditional creeps cycle. When there is a recession, a crisis, companies respond to the crisis. There is improvement, and the latter stage there will be complacency. We are not addressing the short term only. We are addressing the long term. Our goal is to reduce our cost structures on a permanent basis. So we are focused on that. For instance, even the voluntary dismissal program, its effects will be felt much more next year and further on, not this year. This year, on the contrary, we are making provisions to pay the severance, to make the severance payment to the and the incentives to the employees that are leaving us. Many other initiatives are addressing significant gains over time.
Creeks cycle. When there is a recession companies are crisis companies respond to the cries those improve all improvement.
In the latest days there will be complacency, we are not.
Addressing the short term only we are addressing the long term.
Our goal is to reduce our cost structures on a thermally basis.
So we are focused on that not too for instance, evenly.
Voluntary gives me so program.
Its effects will be felt much more next year and further on not this year. This year on the contrary, we are making provisions to pay.
The the severance to make the severance payment to the to the incentives to the employees, leaving us and many other initiatives.
Addressing.
A significant gains over time.
Roberto Castello Branco: The implementation of digital transformation, the innovations that are being developed, they will have effects from 1 year or 2 to 5 years ahead. There will be no complacency as prices rise. Discipline is key. Discipline in capital allocation, discipline in cost management, and they are established on a permanent basis, not just because the oil prices collapsed. We do not expect higher prices to bail us out. We are fighting on our own.
Roberto Castello Branco: The implementation of digital transformation, the innovations that are being developed, they will have effects from 1 year or 2 to 5 years ahead. There will be no complacency as prices rise. Discipline is key. Discipline in capital allocation, discipline in cost management, and they are established on a permanent basis, not just because the oil prices collapsed. We do not expect higher prices to bail us out. We are fighting on our own.
The implementation of digital transformation the innovations that are be developed but.
You have effects.
For one here or to five years ahead, and there will be local pluses C. S.
Price.
Rice.
Discipline is key disciplined capital allocation disciplined cost management.
And they are.
Established.
On the permanent basis, not just because.
The oil price collapse.
We do not expect higher price to be as out.
We.
Our fiveg on our own.
Thanks Javier.
Carla: Thank you, Roberto. The next question comes from Bruno Montanari with Morgan Stanley, and it's to Andrea. The oil market conditions stabilized faster than many market participants expected. With that in mind, should we expect to see Petrobras further repaying its revolving credit lines and potentially resume the liability management effort with gross debt reduction?
Thank you have after the next question comes from Bruno Montanari with Morgan Stanley and it soon today and they are the IPO market conditions stabilize faster than many market participants expected.
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Roberto. The next question comes from Bruno Montanari with Morgan Stanley, and it's to Andrea. The oil market conditions stabilized faster than many market participants expected. With that in mind, should we expect to see Petrobras further repaying its revolving credit lines and potentially resume the liability management effort with gross debt reduction?
We're standing mine should we expect to see pattern of rise further everything its revolving credit lines potentially resin the liability management efforts with grasp that reduction.
Thank you don't want to for your question are we definitely want to read those tend to repay the committed bank line. Thank you Dan on the year. If everything continues like we see right now we don't know again, we just know that the 10 air can change so he can it.
Andrea Almeida: Thank you, Bruno, for your question. We definitely want to reduce and to repay the committed bank lines until the end of the year. If everything continues like we see right now, we don't know. Again, we just know that the scenario can change. If it does not change, we want to repay the committed bank facilities until the end of the year. In terms of debt reduction, gross debt reduction, as I mentioned, the goal is to finish the year with $87 billion. If the market allows us, we will always try to reduce it further. Liability management will come back, definitely. That's a goal. As Roberto said, our pillars stay the same. Reduction of cost of capital is one very important pillar.
Andrea Almeida: Thank you, Bruno, for your question. We definitely want to reduce and to repay the committed bank lines until the end of the year. If everything continues like we see right now, we don't know. Again, we just know that the scenario can change. If it does not change, we want to repay the committed bank facilities until the end of the year. In terms of debt reduction, gross debt reduction, as I mentioned, the goal is to finish the year with $87 billion. If the market allows us, we will always try to reduce it further. Liability management will come back, definitely. That's a goal. As Roberto said, our pillars stay the same. Reduction of cost of capital is one very important pillar.
Not changed.
We knew we want to retain the committed bank facilities until the end of the year and terms on that reduction growth that reduction as I mentioned the goal is to finish the year.
$87 billion and if if the market allows us we always try to reduce it forward. So liability management will come back definitely that's at all as well that said our peeler stayed the same and the cost target.
Thats in our cost of capital we once they're important dealer. So if we can do that the total analog that and reduce the cost at that that's the that's what we appointed.
Andrea Almeida: If we can reduce the total level of debt and reduce the cost of debt, that's the focus. That's what we are going to do.
Andrea Almeida: If we can reduce the total level of debt and reduce the cost of debt, that's the focus. That's what we are going to do.
Thank you on that I had the next question comes from on that as Shane without.
Carla: Thank you, Andrea. The next question comes from Andre Shin with Itaú, and it's for Capu. Capu, the agreement over the COR surplus volumes with the Chinese NOCs was expected to occur during H2 2020. Could there be any setback in that regard due to the crisis and travel restrictions?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Andrea. The next question comes from Andre Shin with Itaú, and it's for Capu. Capu, the agreement over the COR surplus volumes with the Chinese NOCs was expected to occur during H2 2020. Could there be any setback in that regard due to the crisis and travel restrictions?
And it's four cap on capital deployment over this year, our surplus volumes with the Chinese and we'll see what is expected to occur during the second half uptrend.
Let me end setback in that regard to the crisis and travel restrictions.
Oh no. Thank you for the question.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: Oh, no. Thank you for the question. Well, we have all been facing some challenges due to the effect of the COVID-19. So far, as I have mentioned, there is no change in our target to close the deal, to close the co-participation agreement until December 2020 this year, as we have planned since the beginning. Things are going good.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: Oh, no. Thank you for the question. Well, we have all been facing some challenges due to the effect of the COVID-19. So far, as I have mentioned, there is no change in our target to close the deal, to close the co-participation agreement until December 2020 this year, as we have planned since the beginning. Things are going good.
Well you have all been faces some challenges two sets of the color.
Hi, Paul that so far as I have mentioned there is no change in our targets to close the deal.
The corporate special agreements answer December 2000 plant in here as we have planned at the beginning.
So things are going to.
Thank you tackle. The next question comes from Michigan value with you the essence to Andrea and Ryan can you share more thoughts on dividends.
Carla: Thank you, Capu. The next question comes from Luiz Carvalho with UBS, and it's to Andrea. Andrea, can you share more thoughts on dividends for this year due to the impairments and visibility towards H2 of the year?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Capu. The next question comes from Luiz Carvalho with UBS, and it's to Andrea. Andrea, can you share more thoughts on dividends for this year due to the impairments and visibility towards H2 of the year?
For this year due to the impairments and visibility towards the second half of the.
Thank you for the question and it's hard.
Andrea Almeida: Thank you for the question. Again, it's hard to tell what will be the net income for the year. As you know, our dividend policy will trigger a higher dividend whenever we reach the $60 billion gross debt. Regarding the net income for the year, because of the impairment impact that we had in Q1, it will be very hard, I would say, to imagine that we will overcome that and come back to positive. But if that happens, we will have more dividend. It's just hard to say right now. Just reaffirming that the trigger to a higher dividend will be the $60 billion gross debt.
Andrea Almeida: Thank you for the question. Again, it's hard to tell what will be the net income for the year. As you know, our dividend policy will trigger a higher dividend whenever we reach the $60 billion gross debt. Regarding the net income for the year, because of the impairment impact that we had in Q1, it will be very hard, I would say, to imagine that we will overcome that and come back to positive. But if that happens, we will have more dividend. It's just hard to say right now. Just reaffirming that the trigger to a higher dividend will be the $60 billion gross debt.
Well I don't be then the net income 40 year had you know at our dividend policy will trigger a higher dividend whenever we reached the 60 billion dollar growth that regarding the net income for the year, because I think there many impact that we had in first quarter.
It'll be very hard to I would say to imagine that we will overcome that come back to positive, but if that happens we'll have more debt and it's just hard to say right now and not just reaffirming that.
The trigger add to higher dividends will be added 50 billion dollar growth that.
Thanks Andre there's another question also from reach for you. So now that we are acting deposit prices, what would be that IDR cash position for the company.
Carla: Thank you, Andrea. There's another question also from Luiz for you. Now that we are exiting the COVID crisis, what would be the ideal cash position for the company? And also, any plans of a potential debt buyback to reduce the financial costs even further?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Andrea. There's another question also from Luiz for you. Now that we are exiting the COVID crisis, what would be the ideal cash position for the company? And also, any plans of a potential debt buyback to reduce the financial costs even further?
And also any plans of potential that buy back to reduce the financial costs even further.
So yes, again, we don't want to keep that that the level of cash the way. It is right now if volatility go down the objective is to go back to the levels. We had before the crisis that was around 5.5, if we have the levels of cash that mean that.
Andrea Almeida: Yeah, again, we don't want to keep the level of cash the way it is right now. If volatility goes down, the objective is to go back to the levels we had before the crisis that was around $5.5 billion. If we have the levels of cash, that means that we would have the committed bank facilities available again. It's a combination of the cash level with the insurance available if anything happens. We, as you know, can draw down them again if needed, if something, any event happens. We do have goals to reduce the gross debt until the end of the year. We are at $91 billion right now. The goal is to end the year at $87 billion.
Andrea Almeida: Yeah, again, we don't want to keep the level of cash the way it is right now. If volatility goes down, the objective is to go back to the levels we had before the crisis that was around $5.5 billion. If we have the levels of cash, that means that we would have the committed bank facilities available again. It's a combination of the cash level with the insurance available if anything happens. We, as you know, can draw down them again if needed, if something, any event happens. We do have goals to reduce the gross debt until the end of the year. We are at $91 billion right now. The goal is to end the year at $87 billion.
We would have.
The committed bank facilities available again, so it's a combination off the cash level, what would the insurance available if anything happens and we as you know we can't draw down them again, if needed if something.
Any event happens so we do have goals to reduce the growth that you'll be lumpy year. We are at $91 billion right now they're going to end the year at $87 billion and not if we have extra.
Andrea Almeida: If we have extra cash and if we have the, let's say, a less volatile market, we may be able to do even better than that, but it's hard to say right now. I would say that. Then for sure, liability management programs will be there to reduce the cost of that. I think that's the overall. If everything goes even better than what we see right now, we might have better results, but hard to say at the middle of the year.
Andrea Almeida: If we have extra cash and if we have the, let's say, a less volatile market, we may be able to do even better than that, but it's hard to say right now. I would say that. Then for sure, liability management programs will be there to reduce the cost of that. I think that's the overall. If everything goes even better than what we see right now, we might have better results, but hard to say at the middle of the year.
Cash knife, we have.
Lets say Alas volatiles.
Market, we maybe able to do even better than that but it's hard to say right. Now so I would say that and then for sure liability management programs will be there to reduce the cost of that I think that's the the overall and if everything goes even better than what we see right now we might have better results but.
Hard to say at the middle up here.
Thank you and Brian. The next question comes from grew numbering with Goldman Sachs and it's far capital.
Carla: Thank you, Andrea. The next question comes from Bruno Amorim with Goldman Sachs, and it's for Capu. Capu, can you please update us on the plan to curb declines in production in the Campos Basin? He wants to know about CapEx, recent achievements, and plans for upcoming years.
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Andrea. The next question comes from Bruno Amorim with Goldman Sachs, and it's for Capu. Capu, can you please update us on the plan to curb declines in production in the Campos Basin? He wants to know about CapEx, recent achievements, and plans for upcoming years.
Can you please update us on the plan to curb declines in production in the compensated. So he wants to know about Capex recent achievements and plans for upcoming years.
Well.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: Well, as we are now facing some changes regarding the oil price, we still have in mind to return to the same levels of production that we had in 2019 in the Campos Basin of almost 1 million barrels per day of oil. We will only do that if it really adds value to our portfolio. Due to the lower price of oil, we are testing all the projects and checking if they are really resilient. What I can anticipate is that the great majority of the projects, they are very resilient to lower price. The main aspect here is not only the
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: Well, as we are now facing some changes regarding the oil price, we still have in mind to return to the same levels of production that we had in 2019 in the Campos Basin of almost 1 million barrels per day of oil. We will only do that if it really adds value to our portfolio. Due to the lower price of oil, we are testing all the projects and checking if they are really resilient. What I can anticipate is that the great majority of the projects, they are very resilient to lower price. The main aspect here is not only the
As we now face whole subtle change with the oil price, who still have aligned to return to the same levels of production that we have on the.
Nytwo.
Welcome to pay off almost 1 million barrels per day portfolio, but we were volumes are that the.
Really adds value to our portfolio. So what are the lower price of why we are testing notable that can check will if they are very resilient.
And what I can anticipate that.
The great majority of the so that they are very resilient to lower price. So.
The net dimming aspect here is not only there was on the economics of those pro this effect, but.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: It's not the economics of those projects, in fact, but the financial aspect is what we have to check with our cash generation and also the management of the debt that we are going to do, and we have to look at the whole portfolio of the company. Those are the things that we are checking right now. Economics, I think that they are good, but the financial perspective, and it will take some month or 2 months more to see the whole picture of the company, as Andrea has already mentioned, and see what we are going to do with the speed and the velocity of the projects, the shape of the investments that we are going to have, and that includes the Campos Basin as well.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: It's not the economics of those projects, in fact, but the financial aspect is what we have to check with our cash generation and also the management of the debt that we are going to do, and we have to look at the whole portfolio of the company. Those are the things that we are checking right now. Economics, I think that they are good, but the financial perspective, and it will take some month or 2 months more to see the whole picture of the company, as Andrea has already mentioned, and see what we are going to do with the speed and the velocity of the projects, the shape of the investments that we are going to have, and that includes the Campos Basin as well.
The financial aspect of what we have to check.
Our cash generation and also the management of the that's ever I went to do and we have to look at the whole portfolio. The company. So those are the things that we're checking right now so economics I think that they are good but the financial perspective, and that will take some love culture last more to see the whole picture of the company has under heavy.
As a nation and he was we are going to do with this business and the velocity of the the project the shape of the vessels at the headwind to have and that includes the Campos basin wells.
Thank you capital.
Carla: Thank you, Capu. There's another question for you also from Bruno. How long can the pre-salt lifting costs go? Can FPSOs with capacity greater than 160,000 barrels per day drive even lower lifting costs?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Capu. There's another question for you also from Bruno. How long can the pre-salt lifting costs go? Can FPSOs with capacity greater than 160,000 barrels per day drive even lower lifting costs?
There's another question for you also from Bruno So how long can the pre salt lifting cost goal can STS overseas capacity greater than 160000 barrels per day drive even lower lifting costs.
Well, what we have been doing regarding the the.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: Well, what we have been doing regarding the lifting costs is if we want to reduce them more and more. In fact, when we add FPSOs with greater capacity, for sure, the expectation that we have is that we will have a lower lifting cost in the future. I think that we are going to see also that when you look at the general picture, not only the pre-salt lifting costs, as we are taking out some production platforms that they are old and substituting them, replacing them by other platforms that are new, like in the Marlin field, for instance, or when we are divesting on the fields that we have in the shallow waters and also on offshore.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: Well, what we have been doing regarding the lifting costs is if we want to reduce them more and more. In fact, when we add FPSOs with greater capacity, for sure, the expectation that we have is that we will have a lower lifting cost in the future. I think that we are going to see also that when you look at the general picture, not only the pre-salt lifting costs, as we are taking out some production platforms that they are old and substituting them, replacing them by other platforms that are new, like in the Marlin field, for instance, or when we are divesting on the fields that we have in the shallow waters and also on offshore.
The the lifting cost of the lightbridges than more and more and the effect.
When we add the.
Yes, or with greater capacity for sure there's potential that we have is that we will have.
Lower lifting cost in the theater and I think that we're going through two key also that.
When you look at the general pictorial knowing that result, lifting costs as we are taking out some position platforms that they are all them. So the such as in them.
Placing them bye bye orders platforms that and they are new like in the molecule for with us or when we are they vessel of the feels that we haven't this shallow waters.
Also on all four so when we look at the whole Peter our expectations and Thats. What we are doing that's our job it changes the lifting cost of the company's fourth.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: When we look at the whole picture, our expectation, and that's what we are doing, that's our job, is to reduce the lifting cost of the company for sure.
Carlos Alberto Pereira de Oliveira: When we look at the whole picture, our expectation, and that's what we are doing, that's our job, is to reduce the lifting cost of the company for sure.
Thank you Catherine our last question comes from her though financially with JP Morgan.
Carla: Thank you, Capu. Our last question comes from Rodolfo Angeli with J.P. Morgan, and it's for Anelise. China was a key market during the quarter, and we are seeing some independent refineries operating at very strong utilization rates. How Chinese demand for Petrobras grew? What's Petrobras expectations for Chinese demand growth in H2?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Capu. Our last question comes from Rodolfo Angeli with J.P. Morgan, and it's for Anelise. China was a key market during the quarter, and we are seeing some independent refineries operating at very strong utilization rates. How Chinese demand for Petrobras grew? What's Petrobras expectations for Chinese demand growth in H2?
It's for uneasy China was a key markets during the quarter and we're seeing some of independent refineries operating at very strong utilization rates, how Chinese demand for Petrobras crude what's better brands expectations for Chinese demand growth in the second half of the.
Well go through lots, you can't say that Chinese appetite for our pre salt crude easy stroke and that as you know Dane part a huge amount of crude oil and that China, we see that Chinese demand will continues to grow.
Anelise Lara: Rodolfo, what we can say is that Chinese appetite for our pre-salt crude is strong. As you know, they import a huge amount of crude oil and we see that Chinese demand will continue to grow. I'm sure that if you have more oil to sell, they will be buying that. Our question here is what is most valuable trade-off? Produce oil products to sell in Brazil and even abroad or export crude oil? We have these options, right? Our decision is always based on the economic side, which is the best that brings the best value for Petrobras.
Anelise Lara: Rodolfo, what we can say is that Chinese appetite for our pre-salt crude is strong. As you know, they import a huge amount of crude oil and we see that Chinese demand will continue to grow. I'm sure that if you have more oil to sell, they will be buying that. Our question here is what is most valuable trade-off? Produce oil products to sell in Brazil and even abroad or export crude oil? We have these options, right? Our decision is always based on the economic side, which is the best that brings the best value for Petrobras.
So I'm sure that leads to have more oil to sale. They will they will be and buying debt and our our and question here is what is most valuable and tradeoffs.
Produce oil products to sell in Brazil, and even abroad are export crude oil we had these options right and that our.
Our decision is always based in the economic site, which is the best does that brings the best value for Petrobras and.
Roberto Castello Branco: We take this decision based on these economic parameters. That's it.
Roberto Castello Branco: We take this decision based on these economic parameters. That's it.
We take this decision based on these economic.
And there's.
Thanks.
Thank you analysts on the final question from her though it's far Andreas someone that can you comment on what to expect in terms of Capex ballpark figures for 2021 in the coming years, what to be the focus of the investment program.
Carla: Thank you, Anelise. The final question from Rodolfo is for Andrea. Andrea, can you comment on what to expect in terms of CapEx ballpark figures for 2021 and the coming years? What will be the focus of the investment program?
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Anelise. The final question from Rodolfo is for Andrea. Andrea, can you comment on what to expect in terms of CapEx ballpark figures for 2021 and the coming years? What will be the focus of the investment program?
Thank you for your question.
Andrea Almeida: Rodolfo, thank you for your question. I know there's lots of anxiety about the numbers for next year, but we still need to finish the portfolio review. What I can confirm is that there will definitely be some effects impacting, as we mentioned before, because we do have 60% of CapEx that are real, so we might have impacts or effects if we compare to last year's numbers. What we can confirm is that the focus will continue to be on deep and ultra-deep waters. They will continue to represent the biggest portion of our investment. Again, the focus will continue to be on world-class assets that have a break-even below $35 per barrel, as Roberto said. I think on that side, the strategy keeps the same.
Andrea Almeida: Rodolfo, thank you for your question. I know there's lots of anxiety about the numbers for next year, but we still need to finish the portfolio review. What I can confirm is that there will definitely be some effects impacting, as we mentioned before, because we do have 60% of CapEx that are real, so we might have impacts or effects if we compare to last year's numbers. What we can confirm is that the focus will continue to be on deep and ultra-deep waters. They will continue to represent the biggest portion of our investment. Again, the focus will continue to be on world-class assets that have a break-even below $35 per barrel, as Roberto said. I think on that side, the strategy keeps the same.
I know it there's lots of exciting about the numbers for next year, but we still need to finish the portfolio review.
But what I can confirm indefinitely.
Our next impact as we mentioned before because we do have 60% of Capex that are we now.
So we might have been back some FX, if we compare to last year numbers.
But what weekend for I mean that the focus will continue beyond you cannot 20 quarters.
They will continue to represent the biggest portion of our investments and again that focus will continue to be on world class assets that have a breakeven below $35 per barrel as far back to set so I think on that side the strategy keeps the thing well before.
Andrea Almeida: We will be focused on the higher return assets, and that's what you will see in the coming CapEx announcement whenever we have the new numbers.
Andrea Almeida: We will be focused on the higher return assets, and that's what you will see in the coming CapEx announcement whenever we have the new numbers.
On the higher return assets and Thats, what we you will see aim that in the coming.
Excess announcement whenever we have that then you'll numbers.
Thank you Andrea Thank you all.
Carla: Thank you, Andrea. Thank you all. At this time, the Q&A session is over. If you have any further questions, you can send it to our investor relations team, and we will be glad to answer. Roberto will now make his final remarks. Please, Roberto.
Carla Albano Miller: Thank you, Andrea. Thank you all. At this time, the Q&A session is over. If you have any further questions, you can send it to our investor relations team, and we will be glad to answer. Roberto will now make his final remarks. Please, Roberto.
This time the human recession is over you should have any further questions you can send that to our investor relations team and it will be glad to answer.
I will now make his final remarks. So please go back.
Okay.
Roberto Castello Branco: Thank you, Carla. I'd like to thank you for your attention. It's our goal to maximize transparency and to improve our dialogue with the global financial community. We keep making efforts on relentless efforts to create sustainable value over time. It's our main commitment to you and to all Petrobras employees and all stakeholders to create value on a sustainable basis with safety, respecting the environment, focusing also on ESG. I'll look forward to see you or to meet you, or even better, to see you in person in the future. Have an excellent weekend and stay safe and healthy.
Roberto Castello Branco: Thank you, Carla. I'd like to thank you for your attention. It's our goal to maximize transparency and to improve our dialogue with the global financial community. We keep making efforts on relentless efforts to create sustainable value over time. It's our main commitment to you and to all Petrobras employees and all stakeholders to create value on a sustainable basis with safety, respecting the environment, focusing also on ESG. I'll look forward to see you or to meet you, or even better, to see you in person in the future. Have an excellent weekend and stay safe and healthy.
Two Carla.
Thank you for your attention.
It's.
Our goal to maximize transparency and to improve our dialogue, we defend the global financial community.
And.
We keep.
Making efforts.
On the breathless efforts to.
We.
Sustainable value over time.
He is our main commitment to you and to all.
To Petrobras employees is all stakeholders.
[music].
Great value on a sustainable basis, we stated you respect in environment.
Focusing also on yes G.
I'll look forward to see you to meet you or even better to see you in Burleson Egypt future.
I have an excellent weekend.
And is stay safe and healthy.
Okay.
Yes.