Q4 2020 Cardlytics Inc Earnings Call
Ladies and gentlemen, todays conference is scheduled to begin shortly please continue to standby. Thank you for your patience.
[music].
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the cosmetics fourth quarter 'twenty 'twenty earnings Conference call. At this time all participant lines are on a listen only mode.
After the Speakers' presentation, there'll be a question and answer session.
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I would now like to hand, the conference over to your House works on.
<unk> Chief legal and privacy officer. Please go ahead.
Good morning, and welcome to Cognetics fourth quarter and full year 2020 financial results call before we begin let me remind everyone that today's discussion will contain forward looking statements based on growth.
Current assumptions expectations and beliefs, including expectations about future financial performance or results on our financial guidance for the first quarter and your 'twenty 'twenty, one our ability to achieve our key long term priorities. The launch of U S Bank growth in F. I M. A use or monthly active users the increase in net.
On activity tour and they use the return to year over year growth.
Launch of our new user experience the increase in our two or average revenue per user on.
Our cash position.
The impact from COVID-19 out of a business and the economy as a whole, including the stabilization of the economy the potential improvements in the economy.
The impact of our rise retain and return strategy.
Fishing sea of our capital structure.
<unk> momentum in 2021.
And the closing and anticipated benefits of our acquisition Gosh Holdings, Inc.
For a discussion on the specific risk factors that could cause our actual results to differ materially from today's discussion. Please refer to the risk factors section of the company's 10-K for the year ended December 31 2020.
We filed earlier today and in subsequent periodic reports that we filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on.
Also during this call we will discuss non-GAAP measures of our performance GAAP financial reconciliations and supplemental financial information are provided in the press release issued today and the 8-K that has been filed with the SEC.
Today's call is available via webcast and a replay will be available for one week.
You can find all the information I've just described on the Investor Relations section of publics website.
Please note that a supplemental presentation to our fourth quarter results has also been posted to our Investor Relations website.
Joining us on the call today is cartilage leadership team, including CEO and co founder Lynne low deep and CFO Andy Christiansen.
Following their prepared remarks, we'll open the call to your questions with that let me turn the call over to Lynn.
Lynn.
Thanks, Kirk and thank you to everyone for joining us on our fourth quarter and full year 2020 earnings Conference call. We're pleased with our Q4 results, which exceeded the high end of our guidance for both billings and total revenue I'm proud of the card lytic team for their ability to adapt and continue executing on our multiyear strategy and what was the challenge.
The year before moving to our results. This morning, we announced that we entered into a definitive agreement to acquire dosh, Andy will discuss the financial details later on the call, but I'd like to take a moment to discuss our strategic rationale for this acquisition and why we believe it's a great opportunity for continued growth.
As a company we followed for a long time, we've been impressed with their team and their platform and we believe that their business model fully complements our efforts to drive continued growth. There are four key benefits and capabilities that we'd like to highlight.
Dodge has an easy to integrate technology platform, which is a proven solution for neo banks syntax and non financial organization.
Second the offspring partnerships with multiple neo bank, and Fintech players, including Venmo betterment and eldest while in early stages. We believe these partnerships have meaningful long term potential and naturally align with millennials and younger consumers, who are generally not with our traditional large bank partners.
Third DOCSIS platform also enables new advertising solution, including a solution for small and medium advertisers.
And expands our capabilities for advertisers in the travel industry.
And finally das has a D to C app that enables them to implement <unk>.
Tumor test and learn strategies being able to test new products and features and quickly learn what drives the highest consumer engagement allows advertisers to increase their return on AD spend. These results are then shared with das is larger financial partners to drive faster scale deployments.
We believe this acquisition will benefit all of our combined partners create new engagement opportunities and further strengthen our ability to deliver great value to our advertising clients.
I'm excited to welcome Josh to the card Linux team.
Now, let's turn to some highlights from the fourth quarter.
Total billings were $94 million down 7% year over year and up 51% sequentially from third quarter 2020.
Total revenue, which is equal to billings net of consumer incentives was $67 $1 million down 3% year over year and up 46% from third quarter of 2020.
And adjusted contribution was $29 $7 million down 4% year over year and up 51% from the third quarter of 2020.
Our better than expected Q4 results reflect sequential billings growth across nearly all of our advertising verticals. We are encouraged by the consistent month over month growth in our billings since the height of Covid impact in Q2.
It's worth highlighting that we saw fourth quarter billings from our restaurant clients more than doubled sequentially from Q3, and importantly, 12 of the top 15 U S restaurant chains were live on our platform in Q4.
It's also notable that our U S. Billings returned to pre COVID-19 levels on the fourth quarter and were essentially flat with Q4 2019. We are pleased with the momentum we're seeing in our results and we believe this will continue throughout 2021. This momentum not only reflects the continued gradual recovery of consumer spending, but it validates the successful execution of our rise.
<unk> retain and return strategy.
Let me share with you a few examples of how we're executing against our strategy and delivering value to new and existing advertising partners.
In the retail category, we were able to successfully secure additional budgets from key advertisers in Q4 by driving incremental sales from their current loyal customers. In addition to their existing programs designed to acquire new customers. This initiative not only drove additional Q4 billings, but positioned us for larger annual budgets in 2021.
Cartilage also worked in lockstep with one of the largest businesses in the U S to help them launch their new membership subscription service I am pleased to say, we exceeded our partners expectations in terms of net new subscribers in Q4, putting us on a great position for the upcoming year.
Additionally, we secured our first test budget with a top five restaurant chain in the U S that was interested in driving incremental purchases from both new and lapsed customers.
In our direct to consumer vertical we've proven our effectiveness to one of the largest wire wireless service providers in the U S. As a result, this market or has more than doubled its upfront annual spend commitment with us in 2021.
Our self service platform continues to progress.
Agencies and direct clients are expanding their investment with new larger campaigns like prior quarters, we are working with them to create the best user experience possible each quarter moves us closer to sourcing material AD budgets via agency partnerships and with small and medium size advertisers.
From a use we have over 90 per cent of our meus connected to the platform and look to get around 99% connected as we move forward with the U S. P. A lunch.
Our Mou base grew to over 163 million in the fourth quarter up 23% year over year, largely due to the launch of Wells Fargo.
Launch preparations with U S Bank remain on track and we expect them to launch with the version one of our new user experience in the first half of 2021, we expect that Mou growth will eventually stabilize in the low to mid single digits in future quarters with that I will turn it over to Andy.
Thank you Lynn we're excited to announce the acquisition of Dosh, and I'll Echo Lin and welcoming the Doc team the card Linux I believe this acquisition will create many long term opportunities to grow our business together on what's coming years.
We expect our balance sheet and liquidity remain extremely strong following the acquisition. We ended the year with $293 million in cash and cash equivalents compared to 288 million at the end of Q3.
Depending on the timing of when the deal closes we expect our total cash position to be over $140 million.
In December we extended the term of our loan facility and increase the capacity to $50 million, which also remains undrawn at this time.
Now turning to the quarter and full year performance.
We are pleased with our better than expected fourth quarter results in light of the challenging environment, especially in the U K as.
As we've mentioned before we expected to see month over month improvement in our results through the end of the year.
Actually seen this play out gives us a lot of confidence that our return to year over year growth was right around the corner we.
We will see the usual seasonal sequential decline from Q4 to Q1, we're expecting strong year over year comparisons throughout 2021.
Before I dive on the guidance I'll share a few more financial highlights.
During the fourth quarter decreased 7% year over year to 94 million net revenue decreased 3% year over year to $67 1 million outperforming our prior guidance on a sequential basis billings and revenue in Q4 were up 51 per cent and 46% respectively compared to Q3.
U S revenue during the fourth quarter increased 2% year over year. However, our U K revenue was down 43 per cent.
K business continues to be severely impacted by the pandemic on the recent lockdown that was implemented to slow the spread of the new car buying experience.
Latest reports from that the locked on will slowly unwind between April and June. So we anticipate some continued pressure on our UK results in the near term.
For the full year total billings was 263 million a decline of 17% year over year.
Total revenue was $187 million a decrease of 11% from 2019.
Adjusted contribution was $29 7 million from the fourth quarter down 4% year over year and up 50% sequentially from Q3 of 2020 for the full year adjusted contribution was $82 million down 14% from $95 million in 2019.
Adjusted EBITDA was a gain of $4 $5 million from Q4, which was 7% of revenue compared to a gain of $6 $9 million from Q4 of 2019, which was <unk> 10 per cent of revenue.
The decline was primarily driven by a $1 $4 million decline in adjusted contribution and an increase in head count to enhance our product development capabilities.
For full year 2020, adjusted EBITDA was a loss of $7 $8 million compared with a gain of $6 $1 million from 2019, which largely reflects the $13 million year over year decline on adjusted contribution.
As we've discussed the strategic investments, we are making to support our long term growth, including potential cost to support the acquisition and integration of dosh as long as the lingering effects of the pandemic, especially on the U K may cause fluctuations on a quarterly EBITDA during 2021.
As Lynn mentioned earlier and they use grew 23% year over year to $163 million in Q4, partially reflecting the wells Fargo launch.
Arco during the fourth quarter was 41.
On 21% year over year.
As expected <unk> continues to experience pressure year over year due to our significant mou growth and lower revenue.
On a sequential basis <unk> increased 41% from the third quarter of 2012.
Our full year 2020, ARPA was $1.20 compared to $1.72 in 2019, reflecting the same factors impacting our Q4 <unk>.
In the coming quarters, we expect <unk> to increase on a year over year basis, I know you stabilize as we returned to revenue growth.
We had $27 9 million shares outstanding at the end of Q4 weighted average shares outstanding during the quarter was $27 7 million compared to $27 3 million during Q3 of 2020.
Now turning to guidance our guidance range is a bit wider than usual, reflecting a wider range of potential outcomes due to the lingering effects of the pandemic.
Please note that depending on the circumstances, we may decide to withhold guidance on the future.
Additionally, our guidance does not include the dosh acquisition.
We currently expect billings of cute in Q1 of between 67 from $75 million revenue of between 47 and $53 million and adjusted contribution of between 20 and $24 million one.
I want to remind everyone on the normal seasonal decline from Q4 to Q1 due to heightened consumer spending and advertising budgets that typically exist during the fourth quarter.
For the full year, we expect billings between 360 and 400 million.
Revenue of between 250 and $275 million.
Adjusted contribution of between 110 on a $125 million.
Overall, we've been pleased to see the business adapt to recover in a rapidly evolving landscape.
Like many other companies withdrawing more comfortable in this operating environment.
As Lynn mentioned earlier, there are a lot of great stories that underpin our return to growth in those offer a glimpse as to why we're optimistic about our outlook for 2021 M. P. On.
As always we remain very focused on growing long term shareholder value and growing the relationships with our partners and we now look forward to growing an expanded set of meaningful relationships through dosh.
Now I'll hand, it back to win for her closing thoughts.
Thanks, Sandy Q4 was a solid quarter, we continue to make good progress across each of our long term priorities of increasing the number of marketers working with us, bringing our solution to new advertising verticals.
The card Bolitics platform and demonstrating operating leverage in our business. We're excited to work with our new colleagues at Dodge to drive growth vectors in our business. We're proud of our team and their response and resilience in this difficult environment in 2020 with that I'll open up the call for your questions.
Thank you.
As a reminder to ask a question you would need to press Star then one on your telephone to withdraw your question. Please press the pound key.
Our first question will come from the line of Youssef Squali with choose Securities. Your line is now open.
Great. Thank you very much and guys. Congrats on the on the transaction. So two quick questions from me. Please first Lynn maybe could you just speak to the trend so far you've seen in the quarter. We're two thirds into it anything surprising you so far in terms of business trends.
Obviously, some some some deals like the U K continues to be under a lot of pressure, but I think you pointed to the U S being already up year on year on the fourth quarter. So maybe you can flesh that out for us a little bit and then on Das can you maybe just unpack the they're there they're at their tech platform.
I'm, a little more and kind of contrast, and compare I'm, particularly interested in your data. So is the data they have access to.
By Lincoln Me or me Lincoln My cards to the App any different than the data card lytic has on me on how much is that redundant maybe or complementary et cetera. Thanks.
Okay, So I'll take it.
On the first question in terms of trends that we're seeing in Q1, nothing nothing surprising I mean, the U K continues to be down U S continues to seasonally adjusted you well would you want to point out Q4 is always our strongest quarter. So obviously Q1 is down seasonally but the continued trends of advertisers coming back and growing.
On your budgets.
And I think we mentioned several examples in the earnings call on around where six before setting us up nicely from 2021.
So we're feeling pretty good about the about the quarter on a year in.
In terms of dosh.
They do integrate with visa and Mastercard and other API to get their data. So there is a there's some restrictions on both the amount of data that they get and the granularity of the data versus what we have by integrating directly with the banks, but it's similar they also because they are a drag.
The consumer application or in their direct consumer application get some additional data that we don't have for example, they get location data.
In a way that is probably much more specific and unique blend of location data that we sometimes get.
We're excited about the ability to have use cases, where some of our larger banks and show proof points on for example, the value of location data.
But generally speaking their data is similar but less granular than ours does that help book Yeah. Yeah. No. That's super that's Super helpful and just one last quick one on just on the valuation can you maybe and I don't know if from hours to write time, but maybe Andy can you just speak to maybe the basis for the 275 million valuation how are you guys got it.
Got there because you guys didn't provide any financials on book.
Yes. Thanks.
We certainly see a lot of up.
Over time to realize.
Some benefits of combining the two organizations both from revenue perspective cost perspective, really just made a whole lot of sense.
And certainly when we look at some of the growth potential they have with some of their some of their partners that are different than ours.
You can see a long runway for growth there. So really it was just looking at the combination of those of those factors in and really modeling it that way.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Chris Schuttler with William Blair. Your line is now open.
Hey, everybody. Good morning, just wanted to follow up on the question around DOCSIS technology. So my understanding is that they work with affiliate networks and thus can probably bring in.
But you know more or different advertisers to the platform.
They also don't require activation so does that change your approach to.
To activation at all on maybe just elaborate on one more I appreciate it.
Yeah, you are correct about those they do work with affiliate network I'm not exclusively but some of their budget is different from affiliate networks and they do have a non activation model with some of their.
Direct to consumer applications and also their applications.
Partners.
We are gonna studying obviously and see what we like about their platform relative to what we like about our platform and take the best from both on.
Certainly some of our larger size have expressed interest in kind of more of an always on type of offer which of course has a lower value and has less there's a little bit more friction for the consumer but certainly they've done it in the most frictionless way possible and so we will learn and probably take some.
But we'll continue to have of course, our core platform, which drive which is the reason we can go after non affiliate budgets because of the way our platform works and that we do actually require activation, which in turn drive this mentality. So it'll be a blend of low I'm sure over time.
Got it okay.
And then yeah I actually noticed in the App recently, just wondering on my own bank apps that I've seen a couple of offers recently with the.
Shop local banner <unk>.
Included so just curious what those are if you're sourcing them in a different way and then.
Maybe just regarding dosh, how are they sourcing their local offers.
So the the shots on goal that you see in our current application is we have a couple of banks, who are really excited about helping local businesses and so it through partnerships with them. They're there you know not.
Certainly sourced any differently.
But it's true the cartilage and bank partnership relationship Josh themselves. They actually have a partnership with rewards network, which has a.
Extensive amount of hyper local offerings and that is definitely something especially when we implement our new user experience that we'll be looking at you know the challenge with hyper local today is in our existing user experience you can kind of get lost.
Last if you will that's one of the big advantages of our newest user experiences will be able to have specific unique places where customers can go to get their local content.
And I think that partnership with rewards will be very valuable.
Okay, Great and then it was low.
Lastly on the on on EBITDA, I know youre, not giving any formal guidance for 2021, but any any high level commentary you can provide especially as you bring in Josh.
As it relates to the to the year right I guess I want I want to remind everybody that we had several significant.
Actions in 2020.
Certainly as it relates to kind of dark blue collar on COVID-19 impacts both the G&A as well as marketing costs were down significantly, but probably the biggest item on her mind everybody.
Is the amount of incentive compensation that was down considerably.
From us not meeting our targets for the year, but also we need a fairly sizable amount of that compensation from cash to stock. So that's all kind of coming back in so when I look kind of combined in 2021, both of those COVID-19 impacts as well as the annualized <unk> of our of our.
Since we made last year, we're gonna have probably about a 20% or $20 million increase in our cash operating expenses.
We're gonna be looking to make some more investments on top of that we.
We see a lot of opportunities for free.
Investment.
But you know, we're obviously going to be very prudent in how we do that to make sure that the timing of those investments.
Correspond with our return to growth as we talked about but that's really how I see the year comes on.
And just as a reminder to everyone on the Josh acquisition is not included in any of our numbers at this point so not in our annual guidance on that.
Quarterly guidance that would be something that will.
Probably next quarter, but right now it is just purely hardwood ecstatic.
Yeah, that's right that's right.
Okay. Thanks very much.
Thank you. Our next question will come from the line of Doug Anmuth with J P. Morgan. Your line is now open.
Good morning. This is for Doug Thanks for taking the questions first one just can you unpack carefully to result, a little bit more I'm, just curious where you saw the biggest surprise on your <unk> topline results on.
We're drilling the vertical number was particularly meaningful.
And then.
Just looking at the consumer spending recovery, how much has come from respond recover overall relative to where we were not there.
Moving to travel as a vertical that are still marketing meaningfully but are there any others, where you would.
We expect to see greater recovery as we move through 'twenty one.
Yeah, Hey, this is Andy so I think in Q4, we really had a nice pick up in the D. C area as well, especially retail those were two of our strongest verticals, we continue to see weakness in travel.
Entertainment as well as big box retail.
But certainly I think we've been all very impressed with how our pivot to E. Commerce has really paid off with really had a nice a nice growth there and then as far as next next year like we would actually expect to see a lot of those.
We talked about our rise retain return we fully expect to see some of that return.
It picked back up as we get deeper into the year.
Right now, we're still seeing traveled down.
You mentioned, probably about 75 per cent a year over year decline still so that'll begin to pick up and be able to be a great tailwind for us I'm not sure we're really expecting.
That to come back to where it was pre COVID-19, but certainly we're going to see some more strength there.
Yeah on and even though dining just to add to that is while dining is starting to recover it too it's still down pretty dramatically.
Eight twentyish plus per cent.
So we expect to see continued slow recovery going throughout most of 2021 quite frankly in those categories. That's right macro level spend that we see not just our results, but what we see from all of our purchase data restaurant is still down 10% year over year as of a few weeks ago.
Yeah.
Alright, thanks for the color and then just as a separate follow up.
Just curious on if you're on.
You guys have any updates to share on your automotive helps on our platform development.
If your remaining on track for putting.
Putting it on your on plans on how much of that is implemented included in your guidance if any.
Say that last part of your question I didn't hear on how much of that is included in what.
And your God, putting it on day one guide.
Yeah. So first of all we are ahead of schedule for implementing self service and I will point out that the das platform has a self service capabilities that we will certainly be looking at integrating into ours and potentially be able to accelerate even more.
We have hired an agency sales team they are out actively working with agencies today as we speak we continue to beta this self service with the two agencies that.
We discussed in previous quarters, but we are now selling to more and expect that it will be I think what we said to the street is in the back half of 'twenty and 'twenty. One we will tell you the amount of agency spend that is running through the platform and they engage warehouse self services being adopted him and we remain.
Very confident that we'll be able to give you those numbers in and they may not be material relative to our overall billings number but they will be material relative to what we get from agencies today, which is effectively zero.
And obviously only growth from there.
Okay got it thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Jason <unk> with Craig Hallum. Your line is now open not open.
On a follow up on the first two questions.
Is there any way to quantify where verticals like travel and entertainment on a day just wondering if we can try to understand the potential.
And those to come back online and then from a from a doctor perspective are there any major differences in the <unk>.
As you are there.
So that gives you a day any categories, where you're not currently pursuing.
I'll take the last question I'll, let Andy talk about the verticals.
Largely similar in terms of the verticals that they're in and we're in with essentially the notable exceptions that we've discussed they have a lot more local content than we do through their partnership with rewards. So we're excited to bring that into our overall net where they also have an interesting travel solution, but obviously, it's dramatically suppressed right now.
Discuss travelers still way down, but an interesting travel solution where.
Consumers can actually book there on travel through the door shop, that's something that you know I think many of our our bank partners could be interested in maybe not the largest banks, but many of our mid sized bank. So.
So we'll see how that plays out in the future, but other than those two notable exceptions, they're largely in the same types of verticals that range.
Yeah, I'll give you a couple of interesting pieces it relates to our verticals.
Lines are definitely blurring light and in ecommerce and retail, but what I will say is that as we track it our direct to consumer is our largest vertical.
As of Q4, now that compared to say our travel vertical which is 10 to 15 per cent of the size of the D to C. Vertical. So that gives you a kind of a order of magnitude of how much travel has come down and the opportunity is still out there for that to come back next year. So I hope that kind of helps retral.
Yeah.
Yes.
Thank you as a reminder to ask a question you would need to press Star then one on your telephone.
Our next question comes from the line of Aaron Kessler with Raymond James Your line is now open.
Thanks, guys and congrats on the quarter on the sales head count can you just give us maybe an update or expecting investing on the sales side in 2021, our sales force and maybe how that compared to 2020 also would the plan be to integrate sales with us maybe give us an update on kind of a house das kind of go.
On a market approach from a sales force perspective as well thank you.
Yeah I'll take the last question first there.
Go to market approach is similar to ours. They obviously have a sales team that's out there calling directly on advertisers. They do tend to call potentially on different parts of the advertising business. As we've said they have some affiliate budgets for sure are they also.
Have.
It's just that they're smaller in scale and so they are definitely in different parts of some of the organizations, where we have overlap.
A very similar approach to sales overall.
Yep.
As it relates to head count.
Our.
Sales and marketing excuse me, our sales and marketing.
Surprisingly enough.
Year over year at the end of 2020 compared to end of 2019 is actually down by by one in the U S. A lot of that has been.
Really upskilling some positions.
And some of the some of the efforts that we made to become more efficient on if you remember at the beginning of 2020. So we haven't seen a significant rise in the actual number of heads on the sales organization, we certainly look out some of the investments.
Four in 2021, so one of those would include a handful of folks we're not expecting to dramatically increase the size of the sales organization.
In order to achieve our goals for next year, but we are certainly looking to make some investments.
And in our analytics teams.
In some of our sales readiness organization and end of life.
Great and then just quickly the pea on the BDC side, how much of that improvement was made from newer clients added over the last few quarters versus maybe existing clients has shifted more to E Commerce I guess.
So D to C E.
Didn't quite double but actually it did it doubled year over year in Q4.
And a healthy amount of that is going to be new new logos, yeah. The vast majority of that new logos when you compare it to a year ago.
Great. Thank you.
Thank you.
Our last question comes from the line of Josh Beck with Keybanc. Your line is now open.
Thanks for taking the question team I wanted to ask about.
Gosh, and maybe the impact if any on the long term vision in terms of maybe where you can be from a.
M. A U perspective, you know as we think out five years because it seems like you were really focused on obviously the core banking community and their users to seems to open up users that might not necessarily have been included in that population. So I'm just curious.
To hear your thoughts there.
No Youre right I mean, we see this is very complementary they are generally focusing on you know fine.
Financial institutions or organizations that are different from our traditional core banks.
And so we see it as very complementary.
And allows us to really go after that true Neo bank and emerging fintech kind of marketplace as.
As we I think we've discussed in past quarters. The card lytic technology is definitely built for very very large institutions that are highly regulated and have significant legal regulatory compliant kinds of requirements. The Josh platform is quite a bit more nimble than ours because they haven't.
Had to build some of those same.
And so I think it's gonna be a really great fast flexible nimble platform for us to go after some of these emerging fintech and even non Fintech partners.
In terms of what it does to the M. A use we're not commenting on that yet because we want to really understand but I do think your general comment on is there expansion for N. They used here.
Absolutely believe there will be but exactly how much that's something that will come in future quarters.
Really helpful and then maybe a follow up for Andy on.
On some of your expense commentary that that was very helpful related to incentives and T V.
We can obviously all build that into our models on the.
The other piece of it which is.
It seems like there was maybe some dependence on the way the recovery plays out for example, if maybe you feel like the recovery is better than your assumptions and you're moving maybe more towards the higher end of the range you'd really look to reinvest some of that upside I don't know.
That was exactly the message would you just want to clarify with <unk>.
How you were you know really considering the other investment categories relative to the pace of the business.
Yeah, I think you're exactly right I mean, I think as we look out to <unk>.
Next year, we still see quite a bit of intriguing investments to make that we think will drive long term value and I think we're just trying to be as prudent and responsible as we can just given the amount of uncertainty that still exists.
We put a little bit probably wider range out there than we maybe have in the past certainly on the year, but I think that that's because of that uncertainty. So we're just trying to make sure that we manage those investments I think to your point.
We will look to invest to the extent that we end up hitting some of our.
Goals for next year.
Really helpful. Thank you.
Thank you.
There are no further questions.
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation you may now disconnect.
Everyone have a great day.
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